Restoring faith in men and relationships

[KathL]

I've slept with several cheaters. Am certainly not proud of it now. And I personally know a lot men from work who cheat and their age ranges from twenties to fifties. Sometimes we tend to put the blame on the women for not attending to their men and their needs. But among the cheaters I know they just love the extra attention, sex and thrill. And most importantly, a distorted sense of entitlement. As a result, they still cheat even though they are getting enough sex and attention from their beautiful wives. That makes me sick. I witnessed how my ex-MM lied to his wife and the extra miles he would go to get different women.

 

I know one way of avoiding myself from ending up with this kinda men is to identify them from the early dating stage then walk away. Still, I have turned into the disillusioned and bitter person I am today. I have always wanted to be childless and now, there is a stronger reason not to raise any man's kids because its disheartening to be cheated on by someone whom you thought you two shared a special bond and then having your life ****ed because you simply can't walk away anytime now that you are tied down with kid(s).

 

I'm only 29 and I hate having these cynical views. Helps

[xaviercross]

I'm 29 too and feel the same way! Starting to get super cautious in every relationship I start although I do feel that everyone deserves a chance so I don't want to be jaded and ruin it incase he is the most amazing guy...ha.

 

What's your process for identifying them in the early stages? I don't want to be broken from all the disappointment I have experienced, although I'm really starting to doubt that even happy healthy relationships exist without infidelity..

[carhill]

OP, I went through a lot of what you're sharing and now, as an older guy myself, I tried a different approach, that being accepting women as they are and remaining true to my own boundaries. Hence, having been around many MW's in life, I accept there are MW's and there will always be MW's and they are people just like myself and do what they do in life like anyone else does and simply adhere to my own boundaries regarding sexual or romantic relationships. TBH, they're kinda fun to play with, not in a cruel way but in an honest human way. I can't change them so I changed myself to a more neutral POV on the whole milieu. In general, I consider every woman I meet to be married or attached until time, interaction and research show she isn't. I don't see that as cynical or bitter rather prudent and realistic because, generally, every woman I meet is married or attached.

 

How you approach men and those men soliciting you for sexual or romantic favors is up to you. Hopefully you'll find a process you feel healthy about.

[freengreen]

Some people are so tactful and smooth, you wont feel them slitting your throat. These people can have any gender. However, I have seen loads of posts here on them being men mostly.

 

That said, I have known men who are kind enough and sensible enough. I think we encounter more number of humble men and women than the scheming ones, its just that these decietful ones are packaged more glossy so we end up giving more attention and eventually ( and obviously) get hurt.

 

Theres a lot of good around. I think we should just learn to spot shet and walk around it.

[jah526]

I really think men have a different way of viewing sex than women do. I guess the married men who cheat believe it's not really hurting anyone since emotions aren't involved (usually). It's just a little harmless fun as long as no one knows about it. MM told me various things - it's natural, it's just for fun, it's stress relief. He loves his wife so this would fit into the category of recreational sports for him, probably. However, they seem to be able to completely block out that the APs are real people with feelings, and not just sex toys for their enjoyment.

 

Sometimes I think people had it right in the old days. Don't sleep with him until you're married, and after a good long courtship. If he's willing to risk giving up half his assets to you one day, then he PROBABLY loves you.

[HeartbrokenDec29]

@KathL, I feel the way you feel all the time.. Even being an xOW makes it even worse cos you get to see the whole picture and the many devious ways the xMM plays these games even though you were part of it. Its quite difficult to want to believe but im sure there are still honest men out there. May be not as much as the cheaters but i know they exist. Men who live by their words and values

 

I guess one just needs to hope and pray for them and also at any point in time prepare yourself that anything can happen.

 

You can never tell. Anybody can change at anytime but i think its just better to trust on God than any human being no matter what role they are in ones life

Edited April 24, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
off topic commentary removed ~T

[Rebelnoir]

This is exactly the conversation I had over dinner tonight. Once you've seen that capability of somebody to lie to that extent...and you know how the lies work and how easily they come, how do you ever trust somebody again?

 

I know I had a part to play in the A, but I'm single. I haven't made a commitment. I wasn't having to go home and lie to somebody every night when I get into bed with them. Yep I have issues which probably resulted in me getting involved with this MM in the first place, but I now have a whole load of additional trust issues that weren't there before. I'm not trying to position myself as a victim here, I understand that if anyone is a victim it's his wife. But it is the case that I've had a insight into the way in which a cheater lies so well, so sincerely, and I know I'll never trust anyone in the same way again.

[Clockwatching]

I'm in agreement with carhill on this one.

 

A lot of us here have had realisations that our boundaries, definitions of self, and issues with self love have led us into this situation in the first place and I feel that saying that you no longer trust men is equivalent to saying that you don't trust your boundaries or the sense that you love yourself enough to be able to make a decision as to whether the situation is right for you or not.

 

If that's the case it's worth digging into that fear and finding out what it's about - why would it be bad about coming across another married man wanting to get involved with you? What would that look like? What would it mean to you? What is it that you feel when you imagine that situation?

 

For me, if that happened it would mean that yet again I'd ignored my feelings, knowing that I was pursuing a type of relationship that I don't in my heart want, that I'm not able to reveal myself for exactly who I am because my need to be accepted and loved is too great (that's my particular need, other's may differ). If that's the case, how else can I fulfil that need in my life so that I'm going towards what I want? Not just in relationships, but in life in general - I know that will get me in the direction of what I want in relationships.

 

There's also a sense there that there's an expectation that the possibility of getting what you desire can't happen - is this true? Why is it true or false? Try and prove it right or prove it wrong. When did you first learn that lesson?

 

Like will attract like - if you can't trust yourself and you can't be authentic with yourself, you'll attract someone that you can't trust and who won't be able to be authentic with you (whether that's done on purpose or because they're just as disillusioned).

[aileD]

If my marriage fails, I will never be in another serious relationship again. I know this for a fact. There is no way I will put myself in a position to have another person cheat on me. I wouldn't be able to trust anyone anyway.

[KathL]

Its not about how hard it is to say no to advances from MM but how to avoid from ending up with one who sleeps around even with the least attractive girl in the room in the future.

 

[]

Edited May 4, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Topical content

[todreaminblue]

i guess trust when you truly love someone is like having faith and hope......i have given multiple chances to cheating boyfriends..fiancees actually two fiancees...yes kids involved....five actully to both men i was engaged too..two to teh first man three to the second......one engagement three years the next seven years engaged and fifteen years of being together...i want to have faith in them ...i really did..i wanted to keep hope alive that they would not cheat ... and in my last relationship he ended up leaving after an ultimatum i gave...and it devestated me ...i am a fighter....and im loyal......and i try......people might call me stupid for staying......dumb ...whatever.....i still believe in love...and ibelieve peopel can change for the better...i beleive there is temptation enough int eh world for all men to cheat once int heri lives ...some men are stronger than others...men who dotn take drugs or drink lass likely to have temptation hit them when they are most likely to fold.....

 

same with women...temptatin is out there.....just waiting.....some bar somewhere behind three or four too many......or an office cublicle with too much flirtation that leads to longer lunches ......then drinks after work ......dinners....otu fo sight out of mind wife.....which is where many issues start.....people should carry pictures around with them.....i dotn need to i have a phtographic memory i can slideshow anytime i want to .....and thats what i do when temptation comes knockin

 

what i have to believe in is

love......and love is more than sex will ever be...sex is lvoely...but love....is there anything finer....

 

there are men and women who know what loyalty means....what it means to say no to that exra drink too many and hwo to stay faithful...ill never give up my hope or faith....for without hope ro faith in the one you love...what is love then but a word.....

 

and i can love..i cherish love.......i just need the guy out there who loves me back to stay faithful...and he is out there.....he wil find me....and ill be waiting...no cheating man will ever have power over my capacity to love soemone who loves me with my heart...i protect my ability to love...fiercely.......deb

[NTV]

I've slept with several cheaters. Am certainly not proud of it now. And I personally know a lot men from work who cheat and their age ranges from twenties to fifties. Sometimes we tend to put the blame on the women for not attending to their men and their needs. But among the cheaters I know they just love the extra attention, sex and thrill. And most importantly, a distorted sense of entitlement. As a result, they still cheat even though they are getting enough sex and attention from their beautiful wives. That makes me sick. I witnessed how my ex-MM lied to his wife and the extra miles he would go to get different women.

 

I know one way of avoiding myself from ending up with this kinda men is to identify them from the early dating stage then walk away. Still, I have turned into the disillusioned and bitter person I am today. I have always wanted to be childless and now, there is a stronger reason not to raise any man's kids because its disheartening to be cheated on by someone whom you thought you two shared a special bond and then having your life ****ed because you simply can't walk away anytime now that you are tied down with kid(s).

 

I'm only 29 and I hate having these cynical views. Helps

 

There is no help for you!!!!!

 

Lol just kidding!

 

Want your faith in men restored? That's like saying you don't trust dogs because one bit you. Not all dogs bite. Most domestic ones don't. Some do. the wild ones will eat you alive if you let them. But you don't hear about dogs unless there is a dog bite or one of them saves a life. Of the domestic dogs, You can't tell which dogs bite and which don't by looking at them.

 

Finding your faith In men is just like trying to find the dog that won't bite.

 

But to be fair, even if you find one. .. they might not like the smell of wild dog on you. Gotta fix whatever it is that caused you to pick the wrong ones first.

 

For example 'I always pick the wrong guy' is a red flag to me. Either you're telling me I'm the wrong guy, or you're telling me that you want to be with me because I'm safe and dependable and will make a good provider (which equals you cheating after two kids and you get bored with safety).

 

So.... let me know if you want me to mail you one of those I spy books. ..won't really help but might be fun lol.

[NTV]

See... I rest my case. Desert never does anyone any good.

[William]

Moderation will attempt to preserve any threadjacks to a more general discussion in GRD. However, this post will demark a directive to return to the original topic and relationship issue of the thread starter and make posts relevant to their particular issue.

 

As always, starting threads on LoveShack.org is free and members are encouraged to begin discussions about their own relationship issues or questions. Thanks!

 

****Some content on more general topics moved here:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/623064-how-avoid-cheating-spouses-affairs

 

****A threadjack on another member's relationship moved here:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/621446-never-again

Edited May 4, 2017 by William
Threadjack cleanup

[NTV]

Kathl if faith in men is what you're looking to gain, you could get it from the conversation that just took place.

 

Allregrets strayed from the faithfully married course and is working his way back. It's not easy to change oneself. Reaching inside to fix something or to build boundaries or give up something you like (bars) for something you love (marriage) is very very hard. Not everyone can do it but he is trying. Reclaiming lost honor, if you want to call it that. We can all see it.

 

And the path to reconciliation isn't an easy one. Yeah mike was giving him some blunt redirection, but he's trying to help. What Mike said is probably exactly what his wife will be feeling when he talks to his wife about the bar. An example of a good guy trying to help another guy do the right thing.

 

If we men were all scandalous would this conversation even have took place?

 

But you know there is another rake away from that conversation. You can have faith that some men WILL finish their desert at all costs. That's also faith in men in a way. Good luck!

[darkbloom]

I know that trusting someone requires faith. And that not *everyone* cheats. But I am struggling to believe that most days.

 

The profession I work in exposes me to a lot of people and a lot of situations. The amount of married men that make passes at me is appalling. I can name very few people I know who are in happy marriages/relationships. And the cheating is rampant in the city I'm in.

 

My (now) MM told me that 3 out of the 8 people at his bachelor party cheated on their spouse in that weekend. If you count him as also cheating even if it wasn't on that weekend that's 4 out of 9.

 

I know every single man that went to that party. They all pretend to be committed and loving to their spouses so why would they do that?

 

I think it's simple. People can so they will.

[Overtaxed]

I know that trusting someone requires faith. And that not *everyone* cheats. But I am struggling to believe that most days.

 

The profession I work in exposes me to a lot of people and a lot of situations. The amount of married men that make passes at me is appalling. I can name very few people I know who are in happy marriages/relationships. And the cheating is rampant in the city I'm in.

 

My (now) MM told me that 3 out of the 8 people at his bachelor party cheated on their spouse in that weekend. If you count him as also cheating even if it wasn't on that weekend that's 4 out of 9.

 

I know every single man that went to that party. They all pretend to be committed and loving to their spouses so why would they do that?

 

I think it's simple. People can so they will.

 

Yes, this is true, but it's more nuanced than this. I'd edit this statement to be something more like "If you spend enough time at the bar, eventually you're gonna get drunk". Going to a bachelor party is like sitting at a bar with nothing but alcoholics at it, of course you're going to see some terrible behavior, that's what's expected and anticipated to happen there. Don't want to see it happen? DON'T GO TO THE BACHELOR PARTY.

 

Remove yourself from situations where cheating happens and suddenly, like a miracle, cheating doesn't happen anymore. I know, who knew, right?

 

I'll reiterate, today we seem to have this impression that "love conquers all" and "we're all strong people and can resist any temptation". Let me be the first to tell you, it doesn't, and we're not. Love can be set aside to have an A, and none of us are that strong, IMHO, every single person in the world will cheat if the right situation is put together, especially if you throw booze or drugs into the mix. It's not if, it's when; spend enough time out with the "boys" drunk, you'll wind up in bed with someone else. Spend enough "girls nights out" and eventually someone will sweep you off your feet and you'll wind up in his bed. Spend that time instead with your spouse, doing things you enjoy together, and I can promise you, neither of you will wind up in another person's bed, 100% for sure certain.

 

That's all it takes, is a resolve to keep yourself out of the situations that facilitate cheating. Notice, that's NOT the same thing as a "resolve to not cheat". If you think you can will your way into that, keep posting, because you'll be a WS at some point.

 

Final thing, your AP doesn't even have to be that "good". He/she just has to be there and willing at a time of weakness. Many of us have the image of a beautiful woman or rich/handsome man sweeping our SO off their feet, in most cases, that's not the case at all. People "affair down" most of the time, these people aren't "as good" as our spouses, even viewed in the most complimentary light, they are just "there" and "willing" at a time of weakness in someone's life. Don't be there and you won't find yourself an OW/OM or WS.

[KathL]

Nice posts and nice discussions, guys. Relevant, I must say. I got involved with married men in the first place because of the booze and parties I love so much. Its no wonder that was how everything started and that was also where men bragged about their affairs or showed off their OWs.

 

It is a vicious cycle. I basically have to tear myself away from all the parties and socializings I love so much. I have the power to do it.

[NTV]

Nice posts and nice discussions, guys. Relevant, I must say. I got involved with married men in the first place because of the booze and parties I love so much. Its no wonder that was how everything started and that was also where men bragged about their affairs or showed off their OWs.

 

It is a vicious cycle. I basically have to tear myself away from all the parties and socializings I love so much. I have the power to do it.

 

Why not hang out and party with single guys?

[William]

OK, though it took awhile, the threadjacks, both before and after moderation's directive were cleaned up and the vast majority of the posting content was retained. Links to those threads upthread in prior directive. Please continue discussion of how to restore faith in men and relationships in this thread. Also, since the starter does not appear to be involved with a committed partner and this appears to be more about personal change and improvement I'll move to SIPWB. Thanks!

Edited May 4, 2017 by William
Review complete

[Southern Sun]

I worry that our society is normalizing crappy behavior. Cheating is still considered wrong by almost anyone's standards, but still, people do it. And I would argue that it's become more 'acceptable' among some circles.

 

But there are good men (and women). You have to hang around people who don't normalize crappy behavior. My H is a very good man. I probably don't deserve him. But I am becoming a better woman.

 

I think we have to be willing to look for certain character traits that our society doesn't typically value as much, and that's part of the problem. We LOVE things that create sizzle and excitement. We like charisma and charm and assertiveness and those are the very character traits that are often attached to a cheating man.

 

A man with humility, who treats women with respect, who is kind with proper boundaries, IS the good man. These men are less likely to cheat but are also less likely to get a woman's attention.

 

It's all about what we value. I WISH women could have this grand awakening and realize that these narcissistic men are like the poop on your shoe. We keep stepping in it and wondering why something stinks.

[jah526]

A man with humility, who treats women with respect, who is kind with proper boundaries, IS the good man. These men are less likely to cheat but are also less likely to get a woman's attention.

 

It's all about what we value. I WISH women could have this grand awakening and realize that these narcissistic men are like the poop on your shoe. We keep stepping in it and wondering why something stinks.

 

I actually would love to be with a good man like you described above. My problem is that when I'm around men like that they tend to become like brothers. The guys who treat me like crap are the ones I seem to have a strong physical attraction to (chemistry, I guess), and it sucks.

[Southern Sun]

I actually would love to be with a good man like you described above. My problem is that when I'm around men like that they tend to become like brothers. The guys who treat me like crap are the ones I seem to have a strong physical attraction to (chemistry, I guess), and it sucks.

 

I don't know how to change strong physical attraction, but I think we have to be willing to give a chance to the "brothers." Women develop attraction over time. We might have immediate attraction to some men, but we can also have increasing attraction to a man once we know him better. Again, we also must place value in those characteristics.

 

I also tend to think we haven't done the best job in raising 'real men' in the last few decades. Good men. Because I think a lot of our good men have sort of lost their voices. Humble and kind doesn't need to mean shy and retiring. Every person is an individual, but time to bring the Real Man back.

[jah526]

I also tend to think we haven't done the best job in raising 'real men' in the last few decades. Good men. Because I think a lot of our good men have sort of lost their voices. Humble and kind doesn't need to mean shy and retiring. Every person is an individual, but time to bring the Real Man back.

 

There have been studies done showing that society in general is becoming more narcissistic and less empathetic. I think we are placing less value on virtues like "humility" and "kindness" than we used to, and I believe part of that is the decline in church attendance. I don't attend myself, but I was raised Catholic, and the Church promoted these kinds of values (not all to the good - guilt is still something I struggle with). But I don't see any institution taking the place of the church. In fact, I see the opposite - the rise of social media, giving people more opportunity to self-promote. At some point things may come back around - society can only survive if we help each other out to some degree.

[Chilli]

Same both ways, women cheat and go out to drink with their friends and flirt and bs and destroy families too, so how can you know they are beautiful wives or that she's looking after him or that she's not a cold fish because there's you know, so much goes in a marriage behind the fronts. But yeah, it also does seem to be the way of the world for both , so often now these days doesn't it.

 

But, l'm pretty new personally to the crazy out there these days bc l was married 19 yrs until not long ago.

There's enough of it everywhere, tv, net , anywhere, to know what it's like these days even if your living under a rock, but actually being in it again now , oh man, different thing all together.

And one thing l wanna know about somebody now is just what happened for them in their marriage or relationship and if she's ever screwed around or l smell a rat then it's goodbye from me.

You could try that.