Want to believe in God but can't

[BC1980]

I thought I would make a thread about this ongoing issue in my life because I don't feel comfortable talking to anyone about it. I've always had doubts about the existence of God, but those doubts never seemed to matter until the past few years. To me, the world seems depressing and pointless without the hope of God or an afterlife. I think a lot of this has been spurred on by seeing my parents get older and finding it very depressing that when they die, they may cease to exist and I'll never see them again.

 

Part of me thinks religion is a complete sham that we made up because we are all scared to die. Heck, we spend our entire lives fighting against death. Another part of me feels that the idea that God doesn't exist is just as preposterous. How can the world be so complex without some kind of divine creator? I'm not really interested in debating if God exists or not. I'm looking for people who have similar struggles who would like to share how they cope. I feel like my mind is full of strife on a daily basis, and it's kind of affecting me negatively at this point.

[RecentChange]

Hum... I don't believe in God, and I never have.

 

I tried mightily to believe once - I was going through very difficult personal problems and really wanted to believe. I felt it would make everything more tolerable.

 

But in the end I failed, I could explain every "sign" away with logic. I have never been one to have blind Faith, and I simply couldn't muster it.

 

I am sure the eventual passing of my parents will test me (I am such a daddy's girl - it's going to ruin me when he goes).

 

Unlike you, I do not see the world as a dark place, I am a positive person, and see an immense amount of beauty in the world.

 

For me, science can explain the vast majority of the natural world - it's the suffering and darkness that makes me further question how a "supreme being" could allow so much horror.

 

I am often reminded of a 80's song:

 

https://play.google.com/music/preview/Tre2i5on5xr2m7lacw7rcruzr2e?lyrics=1&utm_source=google&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=lyrics&pcampaignid=kp-lyrics

 

Dear God, hope you get the letter ......

But all the people that you made in your image

See them starving on their feet

'Cause they don't get enough to eat from God

I can't believe in you....

 

We all need a big reduction in amount of tears

And all the people that you made in your image

See them fighting in the street

'Cause they can't make opinions meet about God....

 

I won't believe in heaven or hell

No saints, no sinners, no devil as well

No pearly gates, no thorny crown

You're always letting us humans down

The wars you bring, the babes you drown

Those lost at sea and never found

And it's the same the whole world 'round

The hurt I see helps to compound

The Father, Son and Holy Ghost

Is just somebody's unholy hoax

And if you're up there you'll perceive

That my heart's here upon my sleeve

If there's one thing I don't believe in

 

It's you

Dear God

Edited April 25, 2017 by RecentChange

[basil67]

I need to put a 'ditto' under Recent Change's post - it resonates strongly with me.

[BC1980]

Hum... I don't believe in God, and I never have.

<snip>

For me, science can explain the vast majority of the natural world - it's the suffering and darkness that makes me further question how a "supreme being" could allow so much horror.

 

I agree. Science can explain many things. The immense amount of suffering in the world is certainly a reason that I have trouble believing in God. If there is a God, I don't think he meddles in our affairs. I cringe when people pray for healing. I don't see the world as a dark place, but I do find it depressing that when we die, our consciousness ceases to exist. Basically, we cease to exist. I don't understand the point of all of it if that is what really happens.

 

It's interesting that you said you tried and failed to believe at one point. Me too. I never doubted the concept of free will until I realized that I couldn't will myself to believe in God or Jesus. I've read all type of books that argue for the historical evidence of Christianity, ect., but I never found any of them convincing. I'm not sure we have free will at all actually. I think we have control over our actions to some extent but not our beliefs. Certainly not our emotions. And that leads me to believe that beliefs are heavily reliant on emotions.

Edited May 31, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Edited quote of entire previous post. ~JC

[darkbloom]

I was raised very religious. There was always talks of God in my childhood.

 

A few years ago I went through some pretty dark times. I prayed and prayed and I didn't feel like anything changed. I started doubting whether there was a God.

 

I have always struggled with whether he exists or not. I need there to be a God to make me feel better about death. Otherwise it would eat me up. I don't neccesarily know if I believe but I try and convince myself I do.

[amaysngrace]

I think it's normal to question your faith. Many a great man have.

[BC1980]

I was raised very religious. There was always talks of God in my childhood.

 

A few years ago I went through some pretty dark times. I prayed and prayed and I didn't feel like anything changed. I started doubting whether there was a God.

 

I have always struggled with whether he exists or not. I need there to be a God to make me feel better about death. Otherwise it would eat me up. I don't neccesarily know if I believe but I try and convince myself I do.

 

That is exactly how I feel. I realized it was all about what happens after we die. I've finally realized that I just have to accept and live with my doubt. I have no control over it. I'm just wondering how to cope with it. It makes me wonder how many people sitting in church feel the same way but don't talk about it.

[basil67]

That is exactly how I feel. I realized it was all about what happens after we die. I've finally realized that I just have to accept and live with my doubt. I have no control over it. I'm just wondering how to cope with it. It makes me wonder how many people sitting in church feel the same way but don't talk about it.

 

I haven't really given any thought to what happens when I die. I just accept that I will no longer be. My focus is on making my life a good one.

[Tiger Lily]

I feel like my mind is full of strife on a daily basis, and it's kind of affecting me negatively at this point.

 

What do you think the remedy would be for feeling strife daily?

 

Scientific reasoning about the world and the solutions the "scientific"/medical field offer so often don't seem to fill that "god-shaped hole" inside us.

 

Before I became a believer, I saw the faithful as weak. Now I know there is nothing more difficult than trying to follow God. And nothing more fulfilling.

 

Praying that you find peace, BC1980.

[Ronni_W]

I never doubted the concept of free will until I realized that I couldn't will myself to believe in God or Jesus.

Hi BC1980.

 

There are a couple of articles that speak to your questions: How free is free will? and When your life does not seem to change (even after using spiritual techniques and rituals or giving prayers).

 

When my dad died when I was 13, I just decided that his life wasn't going to be for nothing and meaningless...which necessarily meant that I had to also believe in some kind of 'life after this life'...which necessarily meant some level of some kind of belief in some kind of 'God'. (It wasn't that I was looking for God; only for my dad's life to have meant something.) Now, many decades later, I'm still coming to terms with what this 'God' is and what is the nature of this 'God'; and what, if anything, am I supposed to be doing for this 'God' and what can this 'God' do for me.

 

I guess my point is that you don't have to go 'all in' all at once; you can start with one small decision (like I did) and just see where it goes from there.

 

For me, I don't see it as either science or God. There is clearly scientific evidence for Darwin's (mechanical) evolution, but the 'missing link' might point to there being a creative evolutionary process, as well. Which I think quantum physics is closer to uncovering, and will once they start to more deeply explore and examine how the physicist's consciousness interacts with and influences his/her experiments and results. Entanglement speaks to something going on beyond/above the physical-material level or spectrum (higher frequencies, planes or 'dimensions' of vibrations, and seemingly with some kind of intelligent (scalar?) communication between the photons and quarks and neutrinos). They're even looking for the 'God' Particle...so even science isn't totally against the idea. .

 

Wishing you all the best in your search for Truth.

[Justanaverageguy]

Part of me thinks religion is a complete sham that we made up because we are all scared to die. Heck, we spend our entire lives fighting against death. Another part of me feels that the idea that God doesn't exist is just as preposterous. How can the world be so complex without some kind of divine creator? I'm not really interested in debating if God exists or not. I'm looking for people who have similar struggles who would like to share how they cope. I feel like my mind is full of strife on a daily basis, and it's kind of affecting me negatively at this point.

..

I've finally realized that I just have to accept and live with my doubt. I have no control over it. I'm just wondering how to cope with it. It makes me wonder how many people sitting in church feel the same way but don't talk about it.

 

Hey BC - I'll try and answer from my past experiences. I was raised in a very religious family - catholic - but from a relatively young age I found the idea of the god described in the bible to be pretty ridiculous. That kind of metaphorical man with a white beard living in the clouds watching everything seemed pretty absurd. The way it described things didn't seem to align with the real world - and I guess even more disconcerting was the church itself didn't seem to align with or follow their own teachings.

 

As a result in my teens I switched to the opposite end of the spectrum - Atheism - thinking that must be the only other option. One extreme to the other - Old style religion to Atheism. I became comfortable with that idea. I also became that guy at parties that felt it was my duty to tell anyone with a religious or spiritual inclination how absurd their beliefs were and how silly religion was. Yeah really annoying I know Strangely looking back I think this is an important step on the journey.

 

Anyhow fast foward another 10 or 15 years and after some pretty nasty stuff happened in my life the concept of god was once again raised to my consciousness for reexamination. Perhaps in a similar way to what your experiencing now. Though I had thoroughly dismissed the notion that any higher power existed I felt some weird desire to blame him for what happened. I ended up in a weird conflicted state of becoming angry at a god that I believed didn't exist. The angrier I got the more insistent I became that he couldn't be real - cause if he was then this couldn't happen. Basically I got the point where I was conflicted between the idea that either he didn't exist - or he did and he was a F*** ass-hole and I wasn't entirely sure which was better or worse

 

I'm not sure if it will end up the same for you - but for me that kind of started a process of a deeper journey of personal discovery and indeed personal spirituality. The start of the search for deeper meaning always begins with unhappiness or dissatisfaction. With life - with your understanding of life - maybe with yourself and your circumstances. If youre happy with the teachings of religion or science\atheism - you never look any further. You would simply sit in church like those people you mentioned. If you are satisfied with life then you never try to see what lies beneath it. If there is something deeper. That disconnect - that cognitive dissonance you feel now is what makes people look deeper into other options and start the process of seeking. The way to get rid of it - is to follow it and see where it leads you. For many people they will start deeply exploring areas they haven't looked into previously. Other teachings from the east - eg: Buddhism, Taoism - perhaps also meditation, Yoga, Tai Chi or Qi Gong and alternative healing methods. Also modern or new age spiritual teachings. Alternative perspectives and ways of approaching things. An expansion of the ideas of what life might entail. But more then anything it often starts the journey inwards to know yourself.

 

I can't say what will happen for you but I followed a path similar to that - and for me it ended up with a pretty profound direct experience of god - the universe - the higher power what ever you want to call it. Unlike most religions I'm not saying this to convince you that god is real, tell you to do what he says or to try and sell you my idea of god. There are more then enough people trying to do that. I would simply say the only way to know for sure is to go on your own journey - search and find out for yourself.

 

A talk from a teacher I like which I think cover this -

 

Good luck

Edited April 25, 2017 by Justanaverageguy

[Ronni_W]

Good golly, Justanaverageguy, that was a lovely post! .

It probably describes a good part of my own personal/inner journey as an adult better than I ever could have...and better than I even knew in my conscious awareness.

 

Though I had thoroughly dismissed the notion that any higher power existed I felt some weird desire to blame him for what happened. I ended up in a weird conflicted state of becoming angry at a god that I believed didn't exist.

 

That part made me laugh and laugh. I have found though, that it is a most common reaction of atheists. "God is making all this crap happen - or is the Creative Consciousness behind it - so, conclusion: God doesn't and cannot exist."

You've explained it so delightfully well. .

 

- but from a relatively young age I found the idea of the god described in the bible to be pretty ridiculous. That kind of metaphorical man with a white beard living in the clouds watching everything seemed pretty absurd.

You didn't mention that that same white-bearded 'man' was also said to be angry, vengeful, wrathful, harshly judgmental and jealous...all in very capricious and inconsistent ways. (I was also raised Catholic, so this was the 'God' of my childhood, too. As I said, I had to toss it at age 13, when my dad died.)

 

I think it's a belief in that (crazy, pathological, nut job of an) Entity as the Creator of the world that causes one to question whether it's at all worthwhile seeking or following such a Principle...nevermind believing in the premise of its existence in the first place.

Like you, it also didn't make any sense to me. .

 

I'm still working on my own way back. One of the things I've recently uncovered within my own consciousness is a subconscious anger and hatred against God and God's Mater Light; and blaming God for the fact that I am on this (crazy, pathological, nut job of a) planet in the first place.

Now it seems a little more obvious why I don't have the Creative Power of Will to change my circumstances at will. . God actually has nothing to do with it; turns out it has all along been my own free will decisions and choices that are out of alignment with Cosmic-Universal Laws that have kept me limited and stuck. (Of course, as I said, those free will decisions are made at a higher or 'quantum' level and not in the physical-material plane, which is how they can stay subconscious.) Who knew??? .

 

Thanks again, Justanaverageguy, for your thoughtful and thought-provoking post.

[BC1980]

I haven't really given any thought to what happens when I die. I just accept that I will no longer be. My focus is on making my life a good one.

 

I wish I felt the same way:(

[BC1980]

What do you think the remedy would be for feeling strife daily?

 

Scientific reasoning about the world and the solutions the "scientific"/medical field offer so often don't seem to fill that "god-shaped hole" inside us.

 

Before I became a believer, I saw the faithful as weak. Now I know there is nothing more difficult than trying to follow God. And nothing more fulfilling.

 

Praying that you find peace, BC1980.

 

The remedy would be to know what happens are we die and have absolute certainty that God exists. I've realized that those things aren't going to happen because they are out of my control. So I have to learn to cope with them.

[GorillaTheater]

I get it, BC, I really do. I believe that there's a God, but He doesn't seem to care too much about suffering, and so much basic Christian doctrine makes no sense to me at all. I've struggled with this for years and have absolutely zero insights to offer as a result.

[Ronni_W]

I get it, BC, I really do. I believe that there's a God, but He doesn't seem to care too much about suffering, and so much basic Christian doctrine makes no sense to me at all. I've struggled with this for years and have absolutely zero insights to offer as a result.

GT,

 

Are you open to the possibility that it's not the Consciousness of God that is behind or causing all the suffering and chaos that we see on this planet, but the lesser-lower consciousness of the Fallen Beings or the legions, forces and agents of Antigod?

 

I agree with you that basic Christian (and other major religions') doctrine makes no sense but I think that's because all Truth and everything truly of God has been taken out of it -- by that same fallen-lesser-lower consciousness that now belongs exclusively to the material realm of man/humanity, for sake of greed, selfishness, envy and lust.

I don't think it has anything to do with the TRUE God of Light and Love...only with the falsified, graven-imaged angry, vengeful, psychotic, despotic 'god' of the Christian (and other major religions') doctrine.

 

There are sources that can help us to Truth...despite the apparent fallen-lesser-lower will and desire of current supposed keepers of Sacred Truth, True Teachings and doctrine to keep us enslaved to them and what they want us to believe about God and ourselves and life in general and the purpose of Life.

One example of such a source is How Christianity Falsified the Teachings of Jesus. By happenstance, it just came to my attention two days ago that the Teachings of Sufism were given as a response to the falsification and misinterpretation of the original Teachings of Muhammad. The articles linked through the menu on the left-hand side of

this page does give food for thoughts to ponder...if one is so inclined. .

[BC1980]

I get it, BC, I really do. I believe that there's a God, but He doesn't seem to care too much about suffering, and so much basic Christian doctrine makes no sense to me at all. I've struggled with this for years and have absolutely zero insights to offer as a result.

 

I gave up the Bible as absolute truth and authority long ago. There is too much that doesn't make sense or contradicts itself. I see the Bible as different voices struggling to make sense of God and Jesus. Basically, a bunch of voices that struggle like us to understand exactly what God is and why bad things happen, what's the purpose of life, what happens when we die, ect. When you start looking at doctrine outside of the basics (there is one God, Jesus as a sacrifice for sins), it's all so nuanced that the average person probably has no idea what it even means. A lot of those questions caused me to throw in the towel for many years and declare myself an atheist. It's sad really that the church is not a place where many of us feel comfortable talking about these things. Because a lot of people have the same questions.

 

The suffering thing is very difficult to make sense of. I think a lot of people stop believing in God when they experience something awful and realize you can't pray your way out of something, or you can't be good enough to get rewards from God.

[BC1980]

Are you open to the possibility that it's not the Consciousness of God that is behind or causing all the suffering and chaos that we see on this planet, but the lesser-lower consciousness of the Fallen Beings or the legions, forces and agents of Antigod?

 

I'm curious. Can you explain more about this?

 

Save

[GorillaTheater]

GT,

 

Are you open to the possibility that it's not the Consciousness of God that is behind or causing all the suffering and chaos that we see on this planet, but the lesser-lower consciousness of the Fallen Beings or the legions, forces and agents of Antigod?.

 

 

I don't necessarily blame either; we cause a lot of our own suffering, and a lot of other suffering is random. I don't necessarily "blame" God for permitting it, but I do think it's pretty hard to argue that our suffering is high on His list of concerns.

 

I agree with you that basic Christian (and other major religions') doctrine makes no sense but I think that's because all Truth and everything truly of God has been taken out of it -- by that same fallen-lesser-lower consciousness that now belongs exclusively to the material realm of man/humanity, for sake of greed, selfishness, envy and lust.

I don't think it has anything to do with the TRUE God of Light and Love...only with the falsified, graven-imaged angry, vengeful, psychotic, despotic 'god' of the Christian (and other major religions') doctrine.

 

There are sources that can help us to Truth...despite the apparent fallen-lesser-lower will and desire of current supposed keepers of Sacred Truth, True Teachings and doctrine to keep us enslaved to them and what they want us to believe about God and ourselves and life in general and the purpose of Life.

One example of such a source is How Christianity Falsified the Teachings of Jesus. By happenstance, it just came to my attention two days ago that the Teachings of Sufism were given as a response to the falsification and misinterpretation of the original Teachings of Muhammad. The articles linked through the menu on the left-hand side of

this page does give food for thoughts to ponder...if one is so inclined. .

 

 

Well, specifically what I had in mind regarding unfathomable doctrine is the following:

 

 

1) Why is blood necessary for the covering of sins? Please don't quote Hebrews because I get the argument it presents. My concern runs a little deeper and may not be answerable: why does God demand sacrifice to propitiate for sin that He permits to exist?

 

 

2) And in that vein, why does God permit sin to exist if it's such an anathema to Him? Free will? Please see the following.

 

 

3) So the price for our exercise of free will in sporting around with sins which God permits to exist is eternity in Hell. An eternity, vs. a comparatively brief moment of lusting and lying and all of the other banal sins we commit.

[Silverstring]

I think one of the great disservices of the majority of cultures and the way we are raised is to think of death as some horrible, catastrophic event. If we all just accepted that death is part of life (so to speak) we wouldn't struggle with it so much. The key is to make the most of your life while you're here.

[preraph]

I say take the pressure off yourself to form your beliefs. What I eventually did after being raised in a fundamentalist community is take what good I could from it but not swallow the whole pill. Then I explored other systems, such as reincarnation, paranormal, psychiatry, and found some interesting things that resonated with me. But then I decided to stop reading specific belief based stuff for some decades and just follow my own path with an open mind. And why I did this is because until something happens to you, whatever it is, a message from God, being saved by an angel, talking to spirits, prescient dreams, any of that, you can't be sure it's your reality. So instead of taking on what others professed, I just believed in whatever happened to me. And once I opened up like that, things did happen to show me that there was something out there at work.

 

I believe each of us has our own path and so we can't all have the same religion.

[BC1980]

I think one of the great disservices of the majority of cultures and the way we are raised is to think of death as some horrible, catastrophic event. If we all just accepted that death is part of life (so to speak) we wouldn't struggle with it so much. The key is to make the most of your life while you're here.

 

IMO, death is a horrible and catastrophic event. There isn't much more that is crueler than death. To suddenly rip away a family member is insanely cruel IMO. To live a life and form relationships and have a consciousness that is unique. . . . and then for all of that to cease to exist because of death. I think that is one of the worst things I can think of.

 

I think that is why we created religion and why we spend our entire lives trying to avoid death and to deny that we will die. What happens when we die has been a preoccupation for humans as far back as we can go. In the US, we certainly do our best to deny that death is something that will happen to all of us. We keep people alive at all costs. I think in my culture, we don't deal with death appropriately at all. But I think we do so by denying that death is the normal ending to life. We concentrate on keeping people alive over quality of life. But that is a different topic entirely.

[BC1980]

I say take the pressure off yourself to form your beliefs. What I eventually did after being raised in a fundamentalist community is take what good I could from it but not swallow the whole pill. Then I explored other systems, such as reincarnation, paranormal, psychiatry, and found some interesting things that resonated with me. But then I decided to stop reading specific belief based stuff for some decades and just follow my own path with an open mind. And why I did this is because until something happens to you, whatever it is, a message from God, being saved by an angel, talking to spirits, prescient dreams, any of that, you can't be sure it's your reality. So instead of taking on what others professed, I just believed in whatever happened to me. And once I opened up like that, things did happen to show me that there was something out there at work.

 

I believe each of us has our own path and so we can't all have the same religion.

 

I like the quote in your signature. I've had to sort of accept my doubts and learn to live with them. Though there have been times in my life when I truly did believe in God without question. And not just when I was a kid. I never bought into the idea that there is a hell for non-Christians. That idea makes no sense at all because, for one, you would have to be exposed to Christianity. Many people aren't. That's a question that you will ask and never get a good answer for.

[BC1980]

1) Why is blood necessary for the covering of sins? Please don't quote Hebrews because I get the argument it presents. My concern runs a little deeper and may not be answerable: why does God demand sacrifice to propitiate for sin that He permits to exist?

 

This is a question that I have asked since I was in high school. Why in the world did God need to sacrifice Jesus to pay for humanity's sins? Can't God just forgive sins if He likes? Was is just symbolic? I understand that Jews used animal sacrifices, and Jesus is supposed to replace that system. But why require a sacrifice in the first place? It seems very pagan and influenced by old Middle Eastern religions.

 

And the idea of us all being sinners. We don't have a choice but to sin, so why are we held accountable? We never got a choice in the matter. Adam or whoever, the first humans, sinned, and we have to pay for their sins? My view is that the creation myth is simply an allegorical attempt to understand human origins, but, besides that, there is a real struggle between the idea of free will and being born a sinner. A lot of contradictions that makes no sense.

[Power_Forward]

I cringe when people pray for healing.

 

I don't come from a religious family, but a close friend of mine did. His father had brain cancer and was given 6 months to live. They prayed for him every day. His cancer went into remission for 11 years. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence such as this indicating that prayer can have a positive effect on disease.

 

I don't see the world as a dark place, but I do find it depressing that when we die, our consciousness ceases to exist. Basically, we cease to exist. I don't understand the point of all of it if that is what really happens.

 

How do you know this to be true, that consciousness ceases to exist when we die? What evidence do you have?

 

I think we have control over our actions to some extent but not our beliefs. Certainly not our emotions. And that leads me to believe that beliefs are heavily reliant on emotions.

 

Aren't you controlling your emotions and beliefs with regard to this issue, i.e. by choosing not to believe? Surely you are exerting free will with respect to the issue of a higher power, by choosing not to believe in one.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Power_Forward