Want to believe in God but can't

[Power_Forward]

I thought I would make a thread about this ongoing issue in my life because I don't feel comfortable talking to anyone about it. I've always had doubts about the existence of God, but those doubts never seemed to matter until the past few years. To me, the world seems depressing and pointless without the hope of God or an afterlife. I think a lot of this has been spurred on by seeing my parents get older and finding it very depressing that when they die, they may cease to exist and I'll never see them again.

 

Part of me thinks religion is a complete sham that we made up because we are all scared to die. Heck, we spend our entire lives fighting against death. Another part of me feels that the idea that God doesn't exist is just as preposterous. How can the world be so complex without some kind of divine creator? I'm not really interested in debating if God exists or not. I'm looking for people who have similar struggles who would like to share how they cope. I feel like my mind is full of strife on a daily basis, and it's kind of affecting me negatively at this point.

 

Have you seen the movie "The Tree of Life"? If so, I suggest you watch it multiple times, and attempt to figure it out. The entire movie is basically a cipher, a hermetic teaching about the true nature of creation or "God", if you want to use that term. Once I understood what that movie is really saying, it really changed my perspective about these things.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXRYA1dxP_0

[BC1980]

How do you know this to be true, that consciousness ceases to exist when we die? What evidence do you have?

 

 

 

Aren't you controlling your emotions and beliefs with regard to this issue, i.e. by choosing not to believe? Surely you are exerting free will with respect to the issue of a higher power, by choosing not to believe in one.

 

I have no evidence that anything happens or does not happen after we die. I meant that I find it depressing IF nothing happens when we die.

 

I'm not choosing not to believe. That is the interesting thing about all of this. Until recently, I've never questioned free will with regards to belief, but I've realized I can't will myself to believe in God. I've tried to convince myself that God exists in a variety of ways, but, at the end of the day, I'm not certain at all. If I had a choice, I would chose to believe in God. It's been a startling revelation for me. That we don't chose what we believe. I think the Calvinists have it right.

[BC1980]

Have you seen the movie "The Tree of Life"? If so, I suggest you watch it multiple times, and attempt to figure it out. The entire movie is basically a cipher, a hermetic teaching about the true nature of creation or "God", if you want to use that term. Once I understood what that movie is really saying, it really changed my perspective about these things.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXRYA1dxP_0

 

I'm going to have to watch that movie when I get time this summer.

[Power_Forward]

 

I'm not choosing not to believe. That is the interesting thing about all of this. Until recently, I've never questioned free will with regards to belief, but I've realized I can't will myself to believe in God. I've tried to convince myself that God exists in a variety of ways, but, at the end of the day, I'm not certain at all. If I had a choice, I would chose to believe in God. It's been a startling revelation for me. That we don't chose what we believe. I think the Calvinists have it right.

 

An additional perspective to consider:

 

Belief Hinders True Understanding

by J. Krishnamurti:

 

"If we had no belief, what would happen to us? Shouldn't we be very frightened of what might happen? If we had no pattern of action, based on a belief - either in God, or in communism, or in socialism, or in imperialism, or in some kind of religious formula, some dogma in which we are conditioned - we should feel utterly lost, shouldn't we?

 

And is not this acceptance of a belief the covering up of that fear - the fear of being really nothing, of being empty? After all, a cup is useful only when it is empty; and a mind that is filled with beliefs, with dogmas, with assertions, with quotations, is really an uncreative mind; it is merely a repetitive mind.

 

To escape from that fear - that fear of emptiness, that fear of loneliness, that fear of stagnation, of not arriving, not succeeding, not achieving, not being something, not becoming something - is surely one of the reasons, is it not, why we accept beliefs so eagerly and greedily?

 

And, through acceptance of belief, do we understand ourselves? On the contrary. A belief, religious or political, obviously hinders the understanding of ourselves. It acts as a screen through which we look at ourselves. And can we look at ourselves without beliefs? If we remove these beliefs, the many beliefs that one has, is there anything left to look at?

 

If we have no beliefs with which the mind has identified itself, then the mind, without identification, is capable of looking at itself as it is - and then, surely there is the beginning of the understand of oneself."

[Ronni_W]

I'm curious. Can you explain more about this?

 

Well, specifically what I had in mind regarding unfathomable doctrine is the following:

 

1) Why is blood necessary for the covering of sins? Please don't quote Hebrews because I get the argument it presents. My concern runs a little deeper and may not be answerable: why does God demand sacrifice to propitiate for sin that He permits to exist?

 

2) And in that vein, why does God permit sin to exist if it's such an anathema to Him? Free will? Please see the following.

 

3) So the price for our exercise of free will in sporting around with sins which God permits to exist is eternity in Hell. An eternity, vs. a comparatively brief moment of lusting and lying and all of the other banal sins we commit.

 

Hi BC1980 and GT.

 

Hope you won’t mind that most of my response will consist of links to related articles. I simply could not explain it better, and I’d probably need a heckuva lot more words to say it less effectively...mostly because I am still a student and learn something new or understand something better every time I read any of these. .

 

I found three articles related to the idea of blood sacrifices: God does not require blood sacrifices and The blood of Christ does not take away sin; and then this one speaks to how (false) ideas of the need for ‘blood sacrifice’ became manifest on this planet in the first place: Is the Old Testament God a false god?

 

God will forgive ALL sins if we do our part about it. There is no “eternity in hell” – the Catholic Church made that up so that the masses would stay in fear of God and feel indebted and enslaved to the Church as their only source and hope for redemption/salvation; “eternity in hell” was simply a power-play move by the Catholic Church...which obviously worked very, very well.

Jesus did speak about “a sin that cannot be forgiven”, but there is a higher understanding that goes beyond a literal interpretation of the words.

 

God does not ‘permit’ sin and it is not actually anathema to God. In the same vein, God does not have a ‘list of concerns’. Free Will allows/permits US to CHOOSE for ourselves whether or not we will sin, which actually means going against Cosmic-Universal Laws or ‘the Law of God’ which can also be called ‘the Law of Love’. Once God set us loose in the world, it is up to us; and God does not have a preference or particular desire for (or aversion to) our choices. The reason is that God is confident in the Original Plan and Vision for the Ascension of the Spheres including all its inhabitants, and also is confident that the Cosmic-Universal Laws will ensure the ultimate victory of this Plan and Vision. God isn’t concerned, doesn’t care what we do in the meantime or how we use our Free Will. If we make choices that lead to our suffering and/or the suffering of others...God knew this potential and possibility before we were given Free Will by God. (This potential for us to destroy ourselves through our wrong use of our Free Will is actually at the root of the original ‘Fall’ by those who are the original Fallen Beings.)

 

Free Will is not the same as using our conscious awareness or intellects to decide what profession we’re going to get into, or if or who we’re going to marry, or what we are willing or able to accept for a belief.

 

Do human atrocities break God's heart?

 

All suffering, atrocities and negative conditions and circumstances that have ever manifested on this planet are the result of the Fallen Beings or the legions, forces and agents of Antigod: The [Original] Fall [of the Fallen Beings] into Duality and this one talks more about the fallen consciousness and its desire to prove that God made a mistake by giving us free will. The menu on the left-hand side of this page links to more articles on the Fallen Beings.

 

Why is there evil in the world? (#1) and Why is there evil in the world? (#2).

 

This one speaks generally to sin and its consequence – what we see as suffering on Earth but is actually only karmic returns, which we ourselves, individually and collectively, generate through our Free Will decisions and choices that are against the Law of Love: God’s Grace, Sin and Karma. Is there any injustice in the universe?

 

Much Love and Light for all personal spiritual journeys.

[Justanaverageguy]

This is a question that I have asked since I was in high school. Why in the world did God need to sacrifice Jesus to pay for humanity's sins? Can't God just forgive sins if He likes? Was is just symbolic? I understand that Jews used animal sacrifices, and Jesus is supposed to replace that system. But why require a sacrifice in the first place? It seems very pagan and influenced by old Middle Eastern religions.

 

And the idea of us all being sinners. We don't have a choice but to sin, so why are we held accountable? We never got a choice in the matter. Adam or whoever, the first humans, sinned, and we have to pay for their sins? My view is that the creation myth is simply an allegorical attempt to understand human origins, but, besides that, there is a real struggle between the idea of free will and being born a sinner. A lot of contradictions that makes no sense.

 

Hey BC - when it comes to spiritual teachings each of us will connect with and gain understanding and benefit from different things. We each operate at a specific level of consciousness and so do specific teachings. What i would encourage on your own journey is to start using self discernment.

 

If you find certain things in the bible or other books and teachings that resonate with you, that make sense and benefit your spiritual progression or just general well being - make use of them. If you come across teachings that don't - then you're under no obligation to carry them like some burden you have to somehow fit into reality in order for god or the spiritual path to be real. Perhaps at a later date with new information or a new perspective they might later make sense and you will reengage with them but if they don't at the moment - simply put them down. I encourage you to think on things carefully and take what works for "you" (big emphasis on you) and leave what doesn't

 

Also this is just my own interpretation which you are under no obligation to agree with - but for me Jesus "blood sacrifice" was intended as a metaphor to try and explain the human connection with the divine. He was the king of the metaphor. Every story always had a deeper esoteric meaning beyond the obvious literal human interpretation. This included his own life. At the last supper Jesus body and blood is represented as physical matter - food - energy - we consume on this physical plane to sustain our own life. Bread and wine. For me this was intended to represent the fact that god provides the life giving energy that creates this physical world and the gifts that we enjoy each day. When we waste this energy or use it inappropriately - we are wasting the precious life force that has been provided. You could say in a way killing the higher power that provided it. When we use this energy wisely we do the opposite and receive more and cause it to multiply. We become a benefit rather then a burden.

 

I think if he had the benefit of modern biology Jesus would have used the relationship that a single human cell has to the entire human organism as a metaphor to show the human relationship to the divine. You know - begotten not made - one in being with the father and all that. The cell is a part of the entire body - and it can either be a positive cell that works for the overall health of the organism or or act like a cancer which contributes to wasting its energy, damaging others cells and killing it. In this context the reason why god cares about our behavior and sin suddenly makes sense. He did quote something pretty similar with John 15:5 - I am the vine and you are the branches.

 

Just my take

Edited April 26, 2017 by Justanaverageguy

[Ronni_W]

If you come across teachings that don't [resonate] - then you're under no obligation to carry them like some burden

That is excellent advice. There are also non-religious, non-spiritual works that can help to start 'open the doors', so to speak. For example, reading up on the near-death experiences of people in the general population -- I mean where there is a genuine medical record that they were declared clinically dead, not just people saying that they had an NDE.

 

For me, such NDEs speak to something real happening for those people after having been 'dead', so to speak.

 

In her book, 'Remarkable Healings', psychiatrist Shakuntala Modi, M.D., also provides some compelling evidence for there being other dimensions to Life, which she personally observed in a clinical setting with her patients. It might be worth a look-see at the library (the book is pretty pricey).

 

I found another article on the idea of blood sacrifice, Receiving Holy Communion.

For me, it's as important to make the effort to STOP believing in things, spiritual, scientific or mathematical, that don't make sense as it is to make the effort that will allow us to sooner or later gain a better understanding of who we are as human Beings embodied on planet Earth.

[Silverstring]

IMO, death is a horrible and catastrophic event. There isn't much more that is crueler than death. To suddenly rip away a family member is insanely cruel IMO. To live a life and form relationships and have a consciousness that is unique. . . . and then for all of that to cease to exist because of death. I think that is one of the worst things I can think of.

 

And this is at the heart of your struggles. For anybody, if we're fighting against what is true (ex. that we're all going to die), we will suffer.

 

If we accept what is true then we no longer suffer. It is what it is. There's nothing we can do about the fact that we're all going to die. So there's no need to suffer.

 

Once you realize that it's only your thoughts that death is horrible that cause your suffering, and not the fact that people die, your suffering will go away.

 

Not that it's just an easy thing to do...

[BC1980]

And this is at the heart of your struggles. For anybody, if we're fighting against what is true (ex. that we're all going to die), we will suffer.

 

If we accept what is true then we no longer suffer. It is what it is. There's nothing we can do about the fact that we're all going to die. So there's no need to suffer.

 

Once you realize that it's only your thoughts that death is horrible that cause your suffering, and not the fact that people die, your suffering will go away.

 

Not that it's just an easy thing to do...

 

Well, I think you can hold both thoughts simultaneously. The idea that we will and the idea that death is horrible. I've probably accepted that we die to a greater extent than many people because I work in healthcare. So I'm very familiar with sickness, suffering, and sometime death. I actually think that I am in such turmoil because I have accepted the fact that we die and that nothing is permanent. I think that many people, because they don't have to, go about life in a state of denial that we all eventually die.

 

Only when someone close to them dies unexpectedly or like me, they work in an environment where they see ordinary people suffer/die, do they really start to accept that death is something real. Or as you age, you realize it. Just my two cents though.

[Silverstring]

I do agree that most people do kind of ignore the fact that they, and everybody they love will die. And most of us live our lives not really thinking about the fact we'll die.

 

That being said, there is nothing horrible about death. It just is a fact. Just like the saying that it's better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all, similarly it's better to have lived and died than never to have lived at all.

 

You can choose to suffer about death, or be grateful every morning for being alive!

[BC1980]

I do agree that most people do kind of ignore the fact that they, and everybody they love will die. And most of us live our lives not really thinking about the fact we'll die.

 

That being said, there is nothing horrible about death. It just is a fact. Just like the saying that it's better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all, similarly it's better to have lived and died than never to have lived at all.

 

You can choose to suffer about death, or be grateful every morning for being alive!

 

I get what you are saying. I just don't feel the same way. If I've learned anything in life it's that we don't get to chose how we feel. We can't make ourselves feel a certain way. Life would certainly be easier if that were possible though. I don't think that means we need to wallow in our negative feelings, but I do accept the fact that I can't change how I feel. I take responsibility for how I react to my feelings. I'm glad you have peace about death though. That's a good thing. We can't control it anyway.

[basil67]

IMO, death is a horrible and catastrophic event. There isn't much more that is crueler than death. To suddenly rip away a family member is insanely cruel IMO. To live a life and form relationships and have a consciousness that is unique. . . . and then for all of that to cease to exist because of death. I think that is one of the worst things I can think of.

 

I think that is why we created religion and why we spend our entire lives trying to avoid death and to deny that we will die. What happens when we die has been a preoccupation for humans as far back as we can go. In the US, we certainly do our best to deny that death is something that will happen to all of us. We keep people alive at all costs. I think in my culture, we don't deal with death appropriately at all. But I think we do so by denying that death is the normal ending to life. We concentrate on keeping people alive over quality of life. But that is a different topic entirely.

 

I think that not being able to cope with death is a particularly modern thing. Losing loved ones used to be a very common part of life. Not that it was any less painful, but it was something which happened more regularly because of bigger families and childhood mortality. People died at home. They were washed and prepared for burial by family members. People would pay respects to the deceased in their own homes. Heck, the Victorians even took photos of the deceased. (Google Victorian post mortem photography if you're not aware of this).

 

Now it's all life support and hospitals and morgues. People who would have died 100 years ago are now kept alive. We are less connected to death and I think that makes it harder to process.

[Justanaverageguy]

I actually think that I am in such turmoil because I have accepted the fact that we die and that nothing is permanent. I think that many people, because they don't have to, go about life in a state of denial that we all eventually die.

...

I get what you are saying. I just don't feel the same way. If I've learned anything in life it's that we don't get to chose how we feel. We can't make ourselves feel a certain way. Life would certainly be easier if that were possible though. I don't think that means we need to wallow in our negative feelings, but I do accept the fact that I can't change how I feel. I take responsibility for how I react to my feelings. I'm glad you have peace about death though. That's a good thing. We can't control it anyway.

 

Hey BC - I have to say I strongly disagree with this statement. We most definitely do get to consciously (or unconsciously) decide how we feel. There are fields of psychology and philosophy dedicated to this very topic. The issue at the moment is that you have likely not spent any time working on controlling your thought patterns - as such you are stuck in a loop of simply "reacting" to your unconscious and uncontrolled thoughts which at the moment are leaning to a negative space - thus the negative emotions. Basically what we focus on grows larger. With your line of work - I can see why that might naturally become an issue because your faced with death and negative situation far more regularly then the average person. For this reason this topic becomes more important for you then many others who don't have to deal with these types of situations regularly.

 

Because feelings and emotions emerge as a reaction to what we think about. We often get into a loop where our thoughts lead to emotions and those emotions then trigger additional thoughts related to the way we have started feeling. So my advice would be to work on getting in between that thought -> emotion process and start working on training or directing your thoughts more consciously. Here obviously meditation - calming the mind and slowing the thought process is invaluable - but there are many other tools we can use to train our thought patterns. There are psychology, self help and philosophy books that will give you an abundance of different approaches to assist with this and again as I encouraged earlier I would advise you to find what works for you.

 

We cannot change the fact that we die - but we can change two things.

 

1. How often we think about death and focus on this topic producing the emotions we associate with it.

2. How we personally perceive death - the context we have (consciously or unconsciously) placed around it which shape the emotions we feel when we think about it.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Justanaverageguy

[Ronni_W]

I actually think that I am in such turmoil because I have accepted the fact that we die and that nothing is permanent.

 

Hi BC1980.

 

(Yikes! This went on a little(?) longer than I’d expected. Hope there’s something useful, nevertheless.)

 

Is your inner turmoil more related to death and dying, or to the idea that you cannot believe in God? Or is you inability to believe in God related specifically to death and dying?

 

Even though you do have your reasons for thinking/believing that death is “horrible”, the actual belief is still entirely under control of your own personal worldview, which is within your own authority and dominion to maintain or change if, when and as you deem necessary and suitable. You do have autonomy in this regard.

 

Unlike what most people believe, our feelings are the results of our thoughts which are the results of our beliefs which are the results of our unique-to-us worldview and psychological programming; it’s what gives us our individuality. There is no external source or force that is in control of these things for us. If such did exist, there would be no differences in personalities or individual preferences, dislikes, opinions, tastes, etc. We would all be subject to and enslaved by the same thing.

 

Cognitive behavioural therapy works precisely because people are in control of their own thoughts, which give rise to their feelings and actions. At least, we are meant to be in control rather than let ourselves be kept in reactive mode, and basically powerless and helpless and at the kindness, mercy and whim of all other people and external circumstances.

 

Nothing is permanent in the world of form but, according to science, neither can we destroy Energy; so there is a dimension of ourselves that is not at risk of being destroyed or annihilated. Whatever it is that is our consciousness or that is powering our ability to think or ‘feel alive’ or be aware of our experience of life.

 

Death is real in the sense that the physical body no longer supports life. But many if not all traditions and cultures recognize the ongoingness of at least some aspect of the ‘former person’; end-of-life rituals are meant to help with the transition of this eternal aspect from the physical-material plane into the non-visible dimension...although they’ve become about the still-living.

I get that this is not part of your personal worldview but it is your own decision and choice to not follow along with the people who do accept the idea of life-after-this-life. (Just like I am deciding and choosing to go along with their worldview instead of yours. Not saying that either one is ‘right’ or ‘better’, only that you and I are each freely making this choice for ourselves.)

 

Nevertheless, there is ‘death’ out of this physical environment as surely as there is ‘birth’ into it. The example of the historical personality Jesus was for humanity to realize the truth and reality of our potential to each have ‘victory over death’. The Catholic Church has of course been very successful in first of all setting up Jesus as an exceptional exception to the rule and, second of all, keeping us stuck in sadness and/or horror looking at his crucifixion so that we do not question the meaning behind his resurrection and ascension (nor the processes behind his so-called miracles, for that matter).

Here again, this is just my personal worldview that I’ve chosen to take on. My beliefs, thoughts and feelings about death come directly from it. I could decide to stop looking at it this way, but then my beliefs, thoughts and feelings about death would necessarily change to be in alignment with and support the new worldview.

 

It doesn’t matter, though, what the belief is about. Our feelings about thieves depend on our beliefs about stealing...is it never okay...is it okay if one is destitute...is it okay if one’s victim is really wealthy? We’re choosing, on an individual basis, how we perceive it and what we think and how we feel about it.

 

If it continues to be a struggle, you might want to try on a different belief about death as a temporary experiment. “Today I’m going to look at death as if it’s not necessarily also the end of the human Being,” or something like that, where you’re just entertaining that possibility and you’re not making it part of your permanent view.

 

Wishing for you that you find peace around this...one way or the other.

[TheFinalWord]

I'm looking for people who have similar struggles who would like to share how they cope. I feel like my mind is full of strife on a daily basis, and it's kind of affecting me negatively at this point.

 

Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

 

What I believe you wrestle with is that you think you have to work to believe in God. That you have to reach some level of knowledge before God's grace can save you.

 

You cannot work for it, earn it, justify it, or rationalize it. The truth is the concept of Grace is the simplest of the doctrines, but the one that is the most difficult for people to accept (see all of Paul's writings). Heck, the Jewish Christians tried to yoke the law onto the gentiles as they could not accept the simplicity of atonement. Until you accept the doctrine of Grace (and not by forcing your mind or rationalizing Christ, just simple acceptance) the other more deeper doctrines will stay elusive.

 

Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech— and not as Moses, who put a veil over his face, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly look to the end of that which was being abolished. But their minds were blinded; for until this day the same veil remaineth untaken away in the reading of the old testament, which veil is done away with in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their hearts. Nevertheless, when they shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

 

 

Accept that God loves you and Christ died for you. Just leave it at that...even if you don't understand it. Try not to be so hard on yourself. God isn't!

 

You don't have to rationalize it or even understand it. Whenever conflict enters you mind, just tell yourself to stop thinking about it and just tell yourself to let God take care of your doubts. Don't worry about why other people believe or don't believe. Try not to look at other people's actions as a reason to not accept Christ. If you use others as the standard for whether to accept Christ or not, you will be sorely disappointed. Just look at Christ. If he placed his faith in man, he would have never made it to the cross! Everyone betrayed him and even the most holy and wise, handed him over to be killed. Look at Christ as the example, not other people's motives like fear of death, healing, ignorance, (which none of us really know, only God knows). At the end of the day, the choice is up to each person, individually. What others do or don't do, ultimately makes no difference.

 

I think the fact you even bring it up so much is because you are saved, not by your ability to rationalize it though, but because of God's Grace. If you weren't, you would not care or worry about it IMHO.

 

If that doesn't work, I think you should look into Methodism or some Wesleyan denomination. Methodists tend to take a more scientific/methodological (hence the name) approach to doctrine (textual criticism, etc.). It might be the more Pentecostal persuasion is just not suited to you (you mention you are annoyed by people praying for healing, etc.). A lot of times I think you are just annoyed by certain Pentecostal denominations lol There are all kinds of denominations of Christianity. Contrary to secular opinion, most

are not because of infighting, but because people have different preferences. There really are not a lot of fundamental doctrines in Christianity (see Acts 15), which provides a lot of latitude for personal preferences.

 

Hope this helps!

Edited May 2, 2017 by TheFinalWord

[pureinheart]

Part of me thinks religion is a complete sham that we made up because we are all scared to die. Heck, we spend our entire lives fighting against death. Another part of me feels that the idea that God doesn't exist is just as preposterous. How can the world be so complex without some kind of divine creator? I'm not really interested in debating if God exists or not. I'm looking for people who have similar struggles who would like to share how they cope. I feel like my mind is full of strife on a daily basis, and it's kind of affecting me negatively at this point.

 

First, ((((((( big hugs BC)))))) and I understand completely how you feel. I have all of the fears you have communicated and the thing that helps me cope is my relationship with God and understanding He is in control... I think it is so cool that you can say what you did in the OP... I went through exactly the same thing shortly before being saved. Now I have to remember to release my cares and worries giving it all to Him.

 

Hang in there girl and if you are led, ask Him to reveal Himself to you in a supernatural way.. He will. ((((((more hugs lol))))))

[pureinheart]

You cannot work for it, earn it, justify it, or rationalize it. The truth is the concept of Grace is the simplest of the doctrines, but the one that is the most difficult for people to accept (see all of Paul's writings). Heck, the Jewish Christians tried to yoke the law onto the gentiles as they could not accept the simplicity of atonement. Until you accept the doctrine of Grace (and not by forcing your mind or rationalizing Christ, just simple acceptance) the other more deeper doctrines will stay elusive.

 

This right here is the hardest thing for most to understand.. the free gift of forgiveness, meaning that we can do nothing but receive this.. that's it, receive it. It's just too simple.

[Lilyana76]

I am, right now, going through the thought process that either God doesn't exist, or God does exist and hes a f*cking prick.

 

The last two years have been the worst in my life in many ways. My son (4 years old) was diagnosed with an autoimmune disorder, and its starting to affect his joints to where they are becoming disfigured. My other son, (12 years old) is autistic and has actually tried to commit suicide. My mother suffered a heart attack, her appendix bursting, and a leukemia diagnoses (2 rounds of chemo, 1 round of radiation, and 4 stem cell transplants) all before passing away last month. I had left my husband, started the divorce process......

 

What kind of God would allow any of these things to happen? A cruel and vile POS if you ask me. I'm torn between being so angry at him, and just denying him. Very confusing. How can I hate a God that doesn't exist?

 

I grew up in a Baptist home, we went to church every Sunday. I was in bible school, did bible camp.. all of that. I grew up with a very profound love for God.

 

Now...

 

F*ck him. And that makes me sad.. and angrier.

[pureinheart]

Lilyana ((((((((hugs))))))))

[lionlover1973]

You speak much about suffering in the world but fail to see the good.

And, there is a lot of it (good).

 

Perhaps ponder the reason...

 

I believe it is only natural if someone who has experienced many hardships and suffering, to doubt God's existence.

It's hard to grasp that God knows what's best for us.

 

I do believe in God, I am not a fanatic, but I also believe in science.

 

But science is not the be all, end all.

There are many things science (math) cannot explain nor solve.

And, we are not capable of observing the entire universe (or universe(s) for that matter...).

 

What I 'pray' for most is for God to end the suffering of humans and animals.

I believe when I go to heaven (IF, I go to heaven) that all of my answers in and about this lifetime, and of the world, will be answered.

 

Perhaps view a few stories on God, not to change your view, but to observe the views of others.

I thoroughly enjoyed

(makes me weep but full of love)

 

The "Finding Jesus" series was descent, it explores Science and Religion at the same time.

 

It all really boils down to FAITH.

Either you have it, or you don't.

 

Good luck in your journey!

Edited May 3, 2017 by lionlover1973

[thickburger]

Great Thread, I have enjoyed reading it and everyone's input.

 

I was born and raised a Catholic - since I left for college almost 2 decades ago, I have been non-practicing since. Church was always a chore to me. I was never 'into it' if it makes any sense.

 

I have a toddler now and he's never been baptised nor in a church for a real mass. Family is not happy, but whatever. We (his parents) have decided to let him find and follow his spiritual journey when he gets older. The other day he asked me what happens when you die (really at that age?!?!) - Got me thinking.

 

I don't buy the Bible/Quran/other religious books. What I do buy is that there HAS to me someone/something that made something, from nothing. It all started with the BigBang they say, what about before the BigBang? Was there nothing?

 

Some Supreme Being/God has to be out there. Either that or the Matrix, haha. Has to be. I also believe that "I" will never truly perish. I may not be in the physical form when I leave this world, but I don't believe it just 'ends.' - Will I remember this place? Dunno. What about all my family/friends/etc... No idea. I don't think God is sitting up in the clouds with his gray beard as so many describe 'Him' but I truly believe there are other forces at play that we just cannot comprehend, and who knows if we ever will.

 

I'll be sure to update this thread with my findings after I die in hopefully 70 years or so.

[Ronni_W]

I have a toddler now <snip> The other day he asked me what happens when you die

Isn't it the truth that some children can really make their parents think? I guess, "Thank goodness for that."

 

There are a couple of articles that I really wish one or both of my parents would have had access to when I was a toddler: The value of teaching spirituality [to] children

and Introducing spiritual concepts...to children.

 

I'll be sure to update this thread with my findings after I die in hopefully 70 years or so.

. I for one will be waiting with bated breath!...so, please don't disappoint. OTOH, if I get there first, I will update you. Fair enough?

[BikerAccnt]

All I know is I wish I had the faith my mother had at times. Especially as she lay dying. She was so at peace with death, so at peace just "knowing" that there was a God waiting for her. That her family would be well, and that she had another place to waiting on her.

 

She had been in hospice care at home unconscious for over a week, we finally called a priest (Catholic) to give the last rights as the hospice nurse said it was time. As the priest started reciting The Lords Prayer, mom stirred, she opened her glassy eyes and smiled slightly. She closed them as the priest held her hand. Later that night, she passed. I often think, she was waiting for that priest, for the Last Rights and her last sacrament.

 

She always had a strong, but not fanatical, belief in God, and I'm sure in many ways, that was also part of her strength. I do hope she was right, and she's somewhere happy with God now.

 

I wish I had her faith...

[Silverstring]

What I do buy is that there HAS to me someone/something that made something, from nothing. It all started with the BigBang they say, what about before the BigBang? Was there nothing?

 

Why does there have to be someone/something that made something from nothing? There actually doesn't. It might make us feel better to think there was, but there certainly doesn't HAVE to be.

 

Here's how something could come from nothing.

 

If 1 is something. Say 1 = matter.

And -1 is something. Say -1 = antimatter.

 

Then 0 (i.e. nothing)=1-1.

 

But more importantly, why did there ever have to be nothing? It seems like there has always been something. The Big Bang just says that at the beginning all the stuff was in a different form. Still something, just different than it is now.

 

And if there was something that created something, what created that 1st something (to infinite...)?

[somuchfortheone]

I thought I would make a thread about this ongoing issue in my life because I don't feel comfortable talking to anyone about it. I've always had doubts about the existence of God, but those doubts never seemed to matter until the past few years. To me, the world seems depressing and pointless without the hope of God or an afterlife. I think a lot of this has been spurred on by seeing my parents get older and finding it very depressing that when they die, they may cease to exist and I'll never see them again.

 

Part of me thinks religion is a complete sham that we made up because we are all scared to die. Heck, we spend our entire lives fighting against death. Another part of me feels that the idea that God doesn't exist is just as preposterous. How can the world be so complex without some kind of divine creator? I'm not really interested in debating if God exists or not. I'm looking for people who have similar struggles who would like to share how they cope. I feel like my mind is full of strife on a daily basis, and it's kind of affecting me negatively at this point.

 

The Bible says that faith comes from hearing the word of God (the Bible). I would suggest reading the Bible starting with the New Testament. The Bible also says he who seeks God with their whole heart will find him. I will pray for you... I think the fact that you are struggling with this is a great sign that you are ready for him in your life. Also.. I would try starting with praying once a day.. whether it's on your way to work, right before bed.. it's just a conversation between you and God. Also- know that God loves you just as you are right now.. you don't have to clean up your life to talk to him or come to him... the Bible says he loved us at our darkest. Please feel free to message me if you ever need someone to talk to!