Want to believe in God but can't

[thickburger]

And if there was something that created something, what created that 1st something (to infinite...)?

 

Head Explode

[todreaminblue]

i know theres a god.......i want to understand people better than i do god..god makes sense to me....people dont.....the pain they inflict or actually we inflict on others ....what people do to others...the news prime example.....so easy to blame god for it......

 

or say god doesnt exist...deb

[BC1980]

But more importantly, why did there ever have to be nothing? It seems like there has always been something. The Big Bang just says that at the beginning all the stuff was in a different form. Still something, just different than it is now.

 

And if there was something that created something, what created that 1st something (to infinite...)?

 

My question would be: where did the first something come from? It's mind boggling to think about.

[Haydn]

 

I was an Atheist but now i am Agnostic. (Something changed)

 

My kids believe. It`s theirs to decide whatever they want to believe.

 

Really interesting thread, BC1980

[BC1980]

I think that not being able to cope with death is a particularly modern thing. Losing loved ones used to be a very common part of life. Not that it was any less painful, but it was something which happened more regularly because of bigger families and childhood mortality. People died at home. They were washed and prepared for burial by family members. People would pay respects to the deceased in their own homes. Heck, the Victorians even took photos of the deceased. (Google Victorian post mortem photography if you're not aware of this).

 

Now it's all life support and hospitals and morgues. People who would have died 100 years ago are now kept alive. We are less connected to death and I think that makes it harder to process.

 

I think this is a good observation. 100 years ago, kids died of ear infections. That just doesn't happen today. Also, we have vaccines today. We're all shocked and horrified when a child dies today, but that was the norm at one time. People had large families because they knew some of their children probably wouldn't make it to adulthood. I wonder if people lived more day to day back then.

[BC1980]

You don't have to rationalize it or even understand it. Whenever conflict enters you mind, just tell yourself to stop thinking about it and just tell yourself to let God take care of your doubts. Don't worry about why other people believe or don't believe. Try not to look at other people's actions as a reason to not accept Christ. If you use others as the standard for whether to accept Christ or not, you will be sorely disappointed. Just look at Christ. If he placed his faith in man, he would have never made it to the cross! Everyone betrayed him and even the most holy and wise, handed him over to be killed. Look at Christ as the example, not other people's motives like fear of death, healing, ignorance, (which none of us really know, only God knows). At the end of the day, the choice is up to each person, individually. What others do or don't do, ultimately makes no difference.

 

I think the fact you even bring it up so much is because you are saved, not by your ability to rationalize it though, but because of God's Grace. If you weren't, you would not care or worry about it IMHO.

 

If that doesn't work, I think you should look into Methodism or some Wesleyan denomination. Methodists tend to take a more scientific/methodological (hence the name) approach to doctrine (textual criticism, etc.). It might be the more Pentecostal persuasion is just not suited to you (you mention you are annoyed by people praying for healing, etc.). A lot of times I think you are just annoyed by certain Pentecostal denominations lol There are all kinds of denominations of Christianity. Contrary to secular opinion, most

are not because of infighting, but because people have different preferences. There really are not a lot of fundamental doctrines in Christianity (see Acts 15), which provides a lot of latitude for personal preferences.

 

Hope this helps!

 

It is true that the differences in denominations aren't that great when it comes to doctrine. The basics are the same. I don't consider something like what happens during the Eucharist to be a huge difference. I have attended a Methodist church, on and off, for many years, and I found that it has suited me well. I think a lot of my problems come from overthinking things. There aren't answers to everything, and even science, though it offers many answers, can't answer everything.

[Southern Sun]

Sometimes I think it's religion itself that causes our difficulty in believing in God.

 

We have all these different religions, and if only ONE is the right one, and the rest of us are wrong...it seems unfair. Improbable.

 

Our religions tell us that the books on which they are based are infallible, and yet they are full of discrepancies. Another problem.

 

Our religions are full of magical stories, making it hard for us in this day and age to blindly accept.

 

If we could just drop religion and get straight to God or a Higher Power (whatever you call it), we might have an easier time with this.

 

I also believe using the issue of suffering in the world as a reason NOT to believe is faulty.

 

I agree that some suffering seems senseless, just egregious. But if most of us on here believe that God is not personally interfering with our lives, answering prayers for some people and not others, then God would neither be preventing suffering for some and not others. Humans generally are the cause of our own and others' suffering.

 

My real point though is...who are we without it? If we never encountered any obstacles, how would we grow? Muscles must become sore to get stronger. Knives must be passed vigorously against a stone to become sharper. There is no change without meeting resistance. Certain things that cause suffering are inevitable. Others that seem totally unnecessary might be horrific but they almost always contain the potential to be a catalyst. If we literally never experienced ANY PAIN OR PROBLEMS (imagine it...seriously), would there be a thing accomplished in the world?

[lionlover1973]

According to scripture,

 

The "First Something"...God, is the uncreated creator, God simply exists and has always existed. God created 'time', but God in and in itself does not exist in the realm of scientific space and time.

 

Time is merely a measurable quantity from one point to the next through sequence.

 

A prime example are black holes, "a fraction of a second inside a black hole, eternity has passed outside the black hole".

 

So, science in terms of universal time is observable within only a small percentage.

Edited May 4, 2017 by lionlover1973

[TheFinalWord]

It is true that the differences in denominations aren't that great when it comes to doctrine. The basics are the same. I don't consider something like what happens during the Eucharist to be a huge difference. I have attended a Methodist church, on and off, for many years, and I found that it has suited me well. I think a lot of my problems come from overthinking things. There aren't answers to everything, and even science, though it offers many answers, can't answer everything.

 

Often our greatest blessing can be our biggest curse.

 

You have a very rational mind, which I believe helps you in your medical profession. However, (and I have it too, being a researcher), it is easy to fall into what I call paralysis by analysis. There are some concepts Paul taught on that even Peter said "were hard to understand"...if that's an apostle struggling with certain topics, I think we have some latitude to doubt

 

Some things like "how can God be eternal"...are just outside of our ability to fully grasp. We only exist and experience temporal causality; realities in which causation breaks down, might be feasible to model mathematically, but in terms of trying to understand it from an experiential perspective, well...good luck.

 

[Spice Girl]

Awesome thread, such a catchy thread title!

 

I'm in the same predicament, OP - I want to believe in God, and I suppose I could if I had more time for it, but ultimately I can't be bothered.

 

I was raised by open-minded parents; dad is a (posh) Marxist, mum was raised in a Jesuit school, both have ties to Islam but they didn't impose their beliefs on us. We talked freely about religion and politics at home and were encouraged to read about all faiths and make our minds up as and when from a young age.

 

In my younger days I had a 'Muslim phase' after a trip to the Blue Mosque in Istanbul and seeing how serene and peaceful those who were praying there seemed to be, which ended with my first sort-of boyfriend in prep school, who was Jewish and almost tempted me into his faith. That was followed by a 'Christian phase' after visiting the modern Catholic Church in Liverpool and talking to the priest, who seemed very wise and passionate.

 

I did study the three books enough to get my own idea, and decided I'd be better off following the path of common sense and kindness to others. I also think I'm too rational and practical to believe in God, but I do believe in the human race (at least most of the time).

 

My kids attend a faith school because it's the best in the area; my youngest is quite taken by Jesus and the stories surrounding his birth and his death, but my eldest is a little more inquisitive and skeptical, which makes for interesting conversations a the dinner table about God's parental responsibilities towards Jesus and how great of a step-dad Joseph was.

[Overtaxed]

The really interesting question to me, what happens when we figure out how to extend life indefinitely? And, no, it might not happen in anyone's lifetime alive today, but it will happen, either though better medicine or some "Matrix style upload" (my brain is in the cloud, literally).

 

Does God cease to exist if death is no longer a "thing"? I have no idea, and can't answer any of these questions, I struggle with this all the time, I was raised atheist, spent years in religious schools studying/reading the scripture, moved away from it, and then recently started to get back into it. IMHO, religion can be a force for good in people's lives, and, of course, it's also a mechanism of mass control, so it's pretty obvious why it came about. There are always unanswerable questions; and, until we can answer them all, we will always need faith in something. Can be science (we will figure it out) and can be a higher power. But something, because, without that, we can't truly understand the world around us.

 

Maybe we will some day answer all the questions, but, I suspect we'll get to "live forever" first; if so, what happens to religion without the promise of an afterlife?

[BC1980]

 

I was an Atheist but now i am Agnostic. (Something changed)

 

My kids believe. It`s theirs to decide whatever they want to believe.

 

Really interesting thread, BC1980

 

I've been really happy that so many people stopped by to share their experiences. I always want to call you Morrissey.

[Haydn]

Awesome thread, such a catchy thread title!

 

When my eldest girl started to read, she loved stories about Jesus. She would devour books about him. I guess her belief and interest improved her reading no end.

 

Not quite divine intervention but `he` helped.

 

Obviously now a lot of her reading revolves around `one Direction` and Justin Beiber.

 

Yes the conversations that took place with her and still do. A walk in the park would turn into a theological debate in which i was hopelessely out of my depth. I would look longingly at the swings....

 

But i would never tell her it is all rubbish and there is no God etc.. That`s not my right.

 

For myself, something happened, that made me see things differently and i have been reading a lot recently. An open mind is usually good in all things.

Edited May 31, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Edited quote of entire previous post. ~JC

[Spice Girl]

When my eldest girl started to read, she loved stories about Jesus. She would devour books about him. I guess her belief and interest improved her reading no end.

 

Exactly.

 

Ironically, some of the most open-minded people I have met are also some of the most religious people. I don't mean the 'preachy', intolerant, self-righteous type who will see the bad in every religion but their own, or those who follow their religion like a dogma; I mean those who think about their faith in a more philosophical way and accept that their religion can be wrong sometimes. This is actually perfectly illustrated by this thread because the premise is one of open debate and personal experience, not judgement.

 

It is always easier to talk to a tolerant person about religion / God than to someone who can't think for themselves and parrots their sacred book without critical thinking, or someone who refuses to see the positive things about religious beliefs and won't even accept that believing in God can bring peace to others.

Edited May 31, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Edited quote of entire previous post. ~JC

[todreaminblue]

On ething that makes me feel peace truly is having faith in gods plan...because only then what i hav egoen through and what many people go through who go through much more pain that i have ....all has a prupose and a design that promise given in the bible and the psalms that soothe my soul......are truth...

 

 

all tears shall be wiped and be no more..no more pain or sorrow for anyone...that everyones sins are forgiven by a higher power that still small voice that telsl that they are forgiven...and also that god will judge those who intentionally hurt and maim others if they dont repent....if not from god..

 

that voice is simply a product of my mental illness...a voice that is untrue and diseased...which is what shrinks have told me ...i am sick in the head....not so bluntly....they use medical terminology.........is too hard for me to bear ......

 

god...makes sense to me..Jesus giving hsi life....i understand that too..dont particularly like the fact he had to die in agony and suffering the way he did.....in fact ...cant handle it...i cry like a baby even thinking of it....but i believe in him...in his ministry on earth...his power...his miracles...his goodness....... and his death and his resurrection..because he just has to be true...for me to go on...for me being here for me to be forgiven...for all people to have peace ..for life to make sense and be right and not just wrong and pointless..

 

when i think of god...i feel him...i am sure that i do...and i am comforted.......and hopeful ...that humanity has a divine given purpose good and bad...it will all make perfect sense one day perfectly intricate and full of grace and wisdom...and ill understand why......deb

Edited May 5, 2017 by todreaminblue

[Timshel]

I thought I would make a thread about this ongoing issue in my life because I don't feel comfortable talking to anyone about it. I've always had doubts about the existence of God, but those doubts never seemed to matter until the past few years. To me, the world seems depressing and pointless without the hope of God or an afterlife. I think a lot of this has been spurred on by seeing my parents get older and finding it very depressing that when they die, they may cease to exist and I'll never see them again.

 

Part of me thinks religion is a complete sham that we made up because we are all scared to die. Heck, we spend our entire lives fighting against death. Another part of me feels that the idea that God doesn't exist is just as preposterous. How can the world be so complex without some kind of divine creator? I'm not really interested in debating if God exists or not. I'm looking for people who have similar struggles who would like to share how they cope. I feel like my mind is full of strife on a daily basis, and it's kind of affecting me negatively at this point.

 

Why is your mind in strife on a daily basis? Is it the world's dysfunction or the thoughts of losing people you love...or both? You do not have to believe in God to be peaceful/content.

 

Either you will carry your parent's dna, what you have learned from them, the memories of them turned to action in your every day events and they are ashes returned to the earth...Or, there is consciousness after the body dies that is eternal and ever present...or both.

 

The truth will occur no matter what you believe as it simply is and is not dependent on your belief. Take that off your plate at least BC1980.

You don't have to make up your mind about God in order for what will happen to occur.

 

That you are troubled over this means, imo, that you believe something. It only isn't readily definable. I don't see any reason to rush; stillness and presence have been a good teacher for me.

 

It's a journey and it does not stop until the moment that we can no longer tell. LOL

[Southern Sun]

Why is your mind in strife on a daily basis? Is it the world's dysfunction or the thoughts of losing people you love...or both? You do not have to believe in God to be peaceful/content.

 

How very true!!

 

But I think, perhaps, a lot of the strife comes from an internal pressure to decide...something. Which honestly I think comes from religion. Christianity, for example, says that unless you believe that Jesus was the son of God and you "receive" him and all that, you will not "go to Heaven."

 

So for some, there is such a deep level of indoctrination, it makes it hard to put this idea to rest. We may think down deep that there is an everlasting consciousness...but what if Christianity was right?? Ack. Or some other religion we've never even heard of?? Ack. We would have needed to "accept" that form in order to participate in the 'good' side.

 

And typing all of that out just proved to me further why I think religion has messed with our ability to believe.

Edited May 31, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Edited quote of entire previous post. ~JC

[Timshel]

Southern Sun, if there is a God, it's inside..not out. Fear is a false litmus. Serenity in acceptance of the unknown, which is pretty much everything. We know nothing...first rule of science and abundantly clear to science on a daily basis.

 

I would say never have faith in fear. God (bible) says 'Be still and know that I am God.' This transcends all religions.

 

No gender by the way, ha ha.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Timshel

[mightycpa]

IMO, death is a horrible and catastrophic event. There isn't much more that is crueler than death. To suddenly rip away a family member is insanely cruel IMO. To live a life and form relationships and have a consciousness that is unique. . . . and then for all of that to cease to exist because of death. I think that is one of the worst things I can think of.

I think this is the most telling post of all.

 

Cruel to whom? The living, right? Certainly not the dead. Afterlife or no, the dead won't suffer from what you've described.

 

And cruel is a word that implies intent, a personification. Cruelty requires an actor.

 

I think you do believe in God, deep down inside. You're just frustrated by the uncertainty and by your inability to discern a clear purpose.

 

I think the truth is that if you truly believe, you can't make yourself not believe, and if you don't, nothing short of a miracle will change your mind.

[lionlover1973]

I think faith can be a strong motivator.

 

I look at my aunt, someone in her late 80's, a devout Catholic.

She survived breast cancer...her faith unwavering.

 

Her brother, similar age, lost his wife to breast cancer and he himself suffered from serious medical ailments.

He is a former jesuit, strongly believes in God and honors God every day.

 

They lost both their parents (my grandparents) when they were young but forged on somehow... I am glad that I am/have been able to witness such an unbreakable and all powerful faith in this lifetime.

 

And no one hated going to Catholic school and Church more than me, I think.

[Timshel]

I think this is the most telling post of all.

 

Cruel to whom? The living, right? Certainly not the dead. Afterlife or no, the dead won't suffer from what you've described.

 

And cruel is a word that implies intent, a personification. Cruelty requires an actor.

 

I think you do believe in God, deep down inside. You're just frustrated by the uncertainty and by your inability to discern a clear purpose.

 

I think the truth is that if you truly believe, you can't make yourself not believe, and if you don't, nothing short of a miracle will change your mind.

 

I really like this. My mom, an atheist and after my dad died told me this:

 

Mom: Goodmorning (me), I called to tell you that I saw something this morning that made me think about God.

 

Me: What?

 

Mom: An eagle landed at my window while I had breakfast this morning and hovered for a while...I know that it meant something. I don't believe in God but for a minute I knew that it was (dad.)

 

Me: .................................it's the quiet things mom.

[Gr8fuln2020]

I have read some of the post here and find them interesting. A few observations to contribute and be a part of a very complicated discussion that neither the believer nor the non-believer is fully capable of discerning...

 

1. The most cruel thing that any God could inflict is ETERNAL DAMNATION AND SUFFERING. Something that most traditional Christians don't like to publicly remind us of, but something they embrace with some celebration.

 

2. The greatest and most fundamental battle with the 'church' is between the non-believer and the believer.....it's within the doors of those who confess to believe. You lukewarm believers (hypocrites) do more damage to the church than the non-believer ever did or does. The vast majority of evangelical christians supporting and celebrating Trump (unquestionably a non-Christian) is an example.

 

3. The very reason Christians like to give to believe are the very same reasons they need to believe. Uncertainty. Questioning of their purpose, so easier to create a deity to give them 'purpose.' Christians are well known for their recursive explanation for the existence of a deity (or God).

 

4. There was a saying that I saw not too long ago that really explains the atheist's POV. To paraphrase, an atheist recognizes that this is all there is, so live life to the fullest and best way you possibly can. This also involves how those around you are affected. Simple and quite utilitarian.

[Justanaverageguy]

4. There was a saying that I saw not too long ago that really explains the atheist's POV. To paraphrase, an atheist recognizes that this is all there is, so live life to the fullest and best way you possibly can. This also involves how those around you are affected. Simple and quite utilitarian.

 

The interesting thing is that the Atheist and Theist both come to the same conclusions - but for completely different reasons.

 

The fundamental conclusion of both a theist and and atheist are that we must live this life the best way we possibly can - the theist because of god\afterlife - the atheist because we only get one life so we must live it well. So to argue over who is right becomes kind of pointless when you understand the way both seek to live there live's is fundamentally the same.

 

In this sense torturing ourselves over whether god exists or does not exist can sometimes distract us from that core goal - to live the best life possible and do the most good in the short time we are here

[aurelius99]

Which "God" do you want to believe in? The ones that are taught by the major world religions, the ones the make you feel good...or the true living God? If you seek with all your heart and strength like it's a hidden treasure, God takes the initiative to reveal Himself to you. Humans cannot know God through their own effort and study. A good starting point is the Bible. But even the Bible, without the Spirit of God's guidance, will do you no good. Are you ready to learn who he really is? Are you willing to know--even if it means acknowledging things that make you uncomfortable? God will reveal himself if you seek his face and come humbly before him with empty hands and admit that you lack knowledge.

[Gr8fuln2020]

The interesting thing is that the Atheist and Theist both come to the same conclusions - but for completely different reasons.

 

The fundamental conclusion of both a theist and and atheist are that we must live this life the best way we possibly can - the theist because of god\afterlife - the atheist because we only get one life so we must live it well. So to argue over who is right becomes kind of pointless when you understand the way both seek to live there live's is fundamentally the same.

 

In this sense torturing ourselves over whether god exists or does not exist can sometimes distract us from that core goal - to live the best life possible and do the most good in the short time we are here

 

I'll accept that. But of course, the 'believer' will tell you that it is not enough to live the best life you possibly can. In fact, some will scoff at the suggestion and simply tell you that your belief in God is all you need....now whether that translates to doing one's best....that something they tend to dismiss.