Want to believe in God but can't

[Redhead14]

We are God's "CHILDREN". Children don't like rules. Some children don't want to be told what to do. Dad has to reign them in and sometimes he will let a child do something they shouldn't do in order to let them learn from their mistakes. The Bible is a set of rules and a view to what happens when people don't live by them. Over time, people have departed from the rules, created their own rules and/or co-mingled some of them and we now have a convoluted, confused society.

 

I kinda look at all this as if my Dad told me to do something and I ask "why?". He says "because I said so". I have to do it because while I don't understand it or like it, I have faith that he has my best interests at heart -- "Ok, Lord, I believe YOU"

 

The truth is we aren't doing a great job doing things OUR way.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Redhead14

[umirano]

I kinda look at all this as if my Dad told me to do something and I ask "why?". He says "because I said so". I have to do it because while I don't understand it or like it, I have faith that he has my best interests at heart -- "Ok, Lord, I believe YOU"

 

Sounds like something a rapey uncle would say to his niece to shut her up after the deed. These uncles unfortunately exist in reality. Why do we brainwash ourselves, against better knowledge too, into this amoral, nihilistic ideals of the abrahamitic religions, for a completely made up sky daddy? I will never get it.

[Redhead14]

Sounds like something a rapey uncle would say to his niece to shut her up after the deed. These uncles unfortunately exist in reality. Why do we brainwash ourselves, against better knowledge too, into this amoral, nihilistic ideals of the abrahamitic religions, for a completely made up sky daddy? I will never get it.

 

completely made up sky daddy? -- Because, we may be at the very point in history where we will find out if it's a made up sky daddy or not . . .

 

If you're wrong, you're not gonna like where you might spend eternity. Look at it as a risk/reward thing.

[umirano]

Look at it as a risk/reward thing.

 

Pascal's wager. Not buying it. What if I'm wrong about Zeus, or Xenu? Same difference. Why aren't you worried about upsetting Zeus, or Xenu?

[Redhead14]

Pascal's wager. Not buying it. What if I'm wrong about Zeus, or Xenu? Same difference. Why aren't you worried about upsetting Zeus, or Xenu?

 

Because Zeus or Xenu didn't leave us a Book that's been carried throughout history and protected by people who are willing to stake their lives on it and haven't touched my heart and mind and so many others in a way that makes me realize that this world, at least the way it was given to us, was perfectly synchronized to support life and the body and mind are so complex to be coincidence.

 

And, because Zeus and Xenu didn't tell us exactly what would happen to us if we didn't believe and take care of ourselves and each other and our planet.

[umirano]

I cannot see from your post that you have studied thoroughly greek mythology then, or scientology. Both have left abundant texts and descriptions of why the world is the way it is, and what happens after death or the return of the god(s). I believe you however, when you say that it is your subjective experience that pushed you toward christianity. Assuming this is true for many, or most believers it explains the vast number of mutually exclusive religions and the even bigger number of denominations underneath them.

 

If you were born on, say, the indian sub-continent you would be a hindu and find the idea of a judgement day laughable, and the concept of the cycle constant rebirth perfectly reasonable. One is either open to super natural explanations (i.e. magical thinking) or one isn't. The religion we end up in is determined by our birth place and era and the religiosity of our parents.

[BC1980]

Because Zeus or Xenu didn't leave us a Book that's been carried throughout history and protected by people who are willing to stake their lives on it and haven't touched my heart and mind and so many others in a way that makes me realize that this world, at least the way it was given to us, was perfectly synchronized to support life and the body and mind are so complex to be coincidence.

 

And, because Zeus and Xenu didn't tell us exactly what would happen to us if we didn't believe and take care of ourselves and each other and our planet.

 

There are other religions out there that do though. Islam or Judaism for example. Judaism is not overly concerned with the afterlife though. So I have to ask myself the question: why are Islam or Judaism wrong and Christianity is right?

 

I'm not an expert in world religions, but they all seem to attempt to answer the same questions. What is our purpose on Earth? How was Earth formed? What happens when we die? Is there punishment for evil? Because this world is unjust, is there a better life after this one? Everything from Native American mythology to Scientology asks these questions in some way.

 

People have been willing to die for many religions. Jim Jones convinced 1000 people to kill themselves. I have to ask myself: what if the writers of the Gospels were wrong? What if they were suffering from mass delusion? Sincerity of belief (as evidenced in martyrdom) is not enough for me to believe a religion to be true.

[Redhead14]

why are Islam or Judaism wrong and Christianity is right? -- Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with Islam or Judaism in their pure/intended states. It's the people who radicalize and twist them to fit their own intentions that make it wrong. These two religions are about living in peace.

 

To respond to another post, it is true that because of where I live, my exposure to, say Islam and Judiasm was limited at best, so perhaps the default is christianity

 

They are still value systems and that's what we need. Why "christianity" is in my heart is somewhat of a mystery. I was not raised in the religious environment. Neither side of my family was outwardly religious. My father's parents, with whom I lived for years, considered themselves to be catholic, my mother claimed to be Lutheran. As far as I know, they never attended church ever, not even on holidays.

 

I am a "non-denominational" believer. How that really happened, I can't say. It's somewhat of a mystery. All I know, is I was at a point in my life where I needed some direction and peace and so I was open to at least hearing and learning. Over time, it got stronger. And being a believer doesn't make me perfect on earth. I am living in a secular world outside of religion and do fail sometimes to apply the principles. However, at least when I do things "not right", I am deeply aware of it and I certainly am more careful about how and what I do going forward. Growing in your belief is exactly that, growing. We are his "children".

 

I think the fact is that a good majority of people who are "anti-religion", have never delved into the associated doctrines of any religion or the Bible in enough depth to see if it does get put on their hearts. And, I think, for instance in the case of the Bible, they don't want to get in there too deep, out of fear and "stubborness". They don't want to change the way they do things. They want to do things their way, all the way.

 

In the end, there is no harm in embracing a religion so long as your heart is changed and becomes focused on living a good and peaceful life. It gives structure and direction. What happens afterward is a mystery. It's not hard to not lie, not cheat, love and respect your parents and neighbors, treat each other well, take care of ourselves and our surroundings as individuals. I choose to believe there is something better on the other side. What's wrong with or what harm comes from that?

[Timshel]

why are Islam or Judaism wrong and Christianity is right? --

 

In the end, there is no harm in embracing a religion so long as your heart is changed and becomes focused on living a good and peaceful life. It gives structure and direction. What happens afterward is a mystery. It's not hard to not lie, not cheat, love and respect your parents and neighbors, treat each other well, take care of ourselves and our surroundings as individuals. I choose to believe there is something better on the other side. What's wrong with or what harm comes from that?

 

Nothing is wrong with that. If only so many people were not murdered, raped, burned at a stake for any religion.

 

Of course I put my foot in even though not asked.

 

The harm is intolerance...a contempt for other's beliefs or the lack thereof.

 

Love is love. If in the name of God a person shames, condemns and physically destroys other human beings, then something has gone awry.

 

Judge not, lest ye be judged...so it goes. Not an easy seat to sit in, right? Human beings are judgemental by nature. Some is instinctual/necessary for survival.

 

If a person loves God and has faith then best to actually do so.

Should a person of faith never stand up or put themselves in harms way to keep their word?

 

That is between God and this person. I think that it is crystal clear and without question when that moment/time occurs.

 

Otherwise, everyday actions, a life lived in the mundane exemplify a love of God or not.

No one is perfect but hypocrisy is easy to see.

[Southern Sun]

There are many, many things about religion that bother me.

 

There are many things about my own (supposed) faith, Christianity, that bother me.

 

One of them is that by embracing one "religion" or set of beliefs, you must automatically disbelieve all others. It is naturally exclusive. You simply cannot believe in more than one thing at a time. Not really.

 

Christianity does not even agree with itself. It is split in many different directions.

 

And it's not just Christianity. There are multiple things about monotheism and the general idea of a supernatural god that exists outside of time and space (or within it??) that we are supposed to worship.

 

I mean, on the one hand, if indeed God (with a capital G) created the universe and everything in it and controls everything and knows every hair on our heads...then I DO want to worship Him (him? her? uh....).

 

But...is that really what happened? I have trouble FEELING it. I don't understand, for example, the concept of free will when, if God is truly omniscient, He already knows my destiny. Yet...if he does NOT know my destiny, then he would not be all-knowing. And that would be a different kind of God. Maybe a little "g" god.

 

I am really REALLY perplexed by the Bible and how we reconcile the number of years it says humans have been alive compared to the number of years science says humans have been alive. Something like 6,000 years vs 150,000 years (specifically, homo sapiens). I know some Christians resolve this by embracing the allegory theory of the Bible, but many do not and refuse to.

 

My next thought is...if homo sapiens have been in existence for 150,000 years, and we have only in the last several thousand years come up with monotheism, and just recently morphed into our current Christian views...why do we think we're right?

 

For the VAST majority of our existence on earth, we had NO CONCEPT of a single God with a capital g.

 

It was only when we needed to have some order in communities and so forth that this idea began to form.

 

Certainly we've always had beliefs in various things - spirits and gods of various things (the sea, the sun, etc), our ancestors. So having some sort of spiritual belief is not uncommon. But our current set-up in the scheme of things is relatively new.

 

I would really like to fully embrace it and FEEL it. But I lately am having trouble myself. I've been raised in the church all my life. But. I just can't feel it.

[Timshel]

It was my dad, both a scientist and Christian...he studied the bible as diligently as he did physics.

 

He sat me down and asked me, as rigid father's do, what do we know is true?

 

Ummm(me).....my father was quite an intimidating presence.

 

Nothing, he said, we know nothing.

 

That's the driving force isn't it, to 'know' something. To feel that it's all figured out.

Death, the afterlife and everything that is...don't we all want to know.

 

I so much love my dad for telling me what he did....that we should be peaceful, calm and accept that we do not know. He taught me not to be a jerk about what I find, what is shown.

 

Of course the question is always there. I have more than felt it, I have seen it.

 

Asking is the same as receiving...listen.

Edited October 14, 2017 by Timshel
spelling, my dad wasn't into psychics. I loathe autocorrect.

[Justanaverageguy]

One of them is that by embracing one "religion" or set of beliefs, you must automatically disbelieve all others. It is naturally exclusive. You simply cannot believe in more than one thing at a time. Not really.

 

So I don't personally agree that these are mutually exclusive and I think you will find many people in spiritual circles also also feel this way. I can only speak to my own journey but I've personally found that Buddhism, Christianity, Vedic teachings - Hinduism - are all complimentary schools of thought when understood at a deeper level.

 

At the surface layer - sure they explain things differently and are influenced by the culture they emerged from. They have a tendency to focus on different aspects (which is why I have found studying all of them helpful) and use different terminology - but at their heart they are all speaking to the same fundamental truth.

 

I attended an Ashram recently where the Guru\Priest who runs the center is both an ordained Greek orthodox bishop and also a practicing Hindu. The Ashram temple has both Greek orthodox and Hindu worshiping areas within the same building and Greek orthodox Nuns and Hindu Monks working there together side by side. Quite a site to behold. When preaching or teaching the Guru references both Christian and Hindu teachings interchangeably.

 

Eternal life vs Reincarnation. Kundalini vs the Holy Spirit. Nirvana vs Heaven ..... are they really incompatible or simply describing the same thing ?

 

I look at the difference between the teachings as being similar to different types of flowers. A sunflower and a Daffodil are different at the surface layer ..... but we understand their "spirit". The nature with which they operate is fundamentally the same which is why we group them together as flowers. This is partially what spirituality is about - seeing past the surface layer of details and understanding the deeper truth - the qualitative aspect - the pattern of behavior something follows.

 

The divine manifests itself in all manner of different ways and wears many different faces - but the pattern of behavior it follows is always the same - this is what makes it divine. Krishna and Jesus whilst appearing as different people and providing different teachings - both embodied this same pattern. They both taught about the same fundamental truth.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Justanaverageguy

[Just a Guy]

Hi Folks, this is a very interesting subject more so because of the myriad views that people have. Before I add to the discussion I would like to say that although I am a notional Christian, I have given up going to church and do not believe that Religion has answers for me. However, I believe that I am spiritual and that my soul will continue to exist after my physical body has expired. I do not decry Religion and I believe that all Religions are based on the same fundamental beliefs but each Religion has been distorted over time by the so called High Priests of each of these for the selfish reason of being able to exert control over a vast section of people who place their trust in that particular religion.

 

Having said this I would like to recommend to those of you who are interested in exploring this subject any further to obtain and read the book 'Proof of Heaven' written by Dr. Eben Alexander a renowned neurosurgeon living in the US who has documented his experiences while in a coma for a week with a form of meningitis. During this time he had been certified as brain dead by the doctors attending on him and his family and friends had given up hope of his survival. Because of the fact that he is an accomplished neurosurgeon and has undergone a rigorous course of studies in the medical field his account is all the more astounding than if it had been written by a lay person. His conclusion at the end is that we never ever die but that our souls keep reincarnating a number of times because the Earth with it's dense structure and with the field of gravity and other limiting features is the best place for us to learn and grow spiritually. It is a difficult read but very interesting and to some extent, will help those who find it difficult to comprehend the whys and the wherefores of life as we experience it here on Earth. In connection with this book I would also recommend to those interested, the book ' Adventures of a Psychic' which is the life story of the famous American Psychic Sylvia Browne. This book will further help folks understand why and what is our purpose of coming down to the Earth for a life which is so full of problems and pain. It is a book which details the life of an extraordinary person. Warm wishes.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Southern, after reading your post above(which I did not before posting previously) I would recommend that you be one of the folk who reads both the books I have mentioned. I think it will help you understand to some extent(we will never in this life and with the puny brains and minds we have, get a complete understanding of what exists on the 'Other side') what is going on here. It is really humbling but the fact is that we have all these doubts especially because we really see only the tip of the iceberg while the bulk of it remains hidden from view. It is something like that fable where there are these blind men who touch the various parts of an elephant and then describe what they think they have touched and of course they are wrong by a mile. Enjoy the books. Warm wishes.

[Cobra_X]

But...is that really what happened? I have trouble FEELING it. I don't understand, for example, the concept of free will when, if God is truly omniscient, He already knows my destiny. Yet...if he does NOT know my destiny, then he would not be all-knowing. And that would be a different kind of God. Maybe a little "g" god.

 

I am really REALLY perplexed by the Bible and how we reconcile the number of years it says humans have been alive compared to the number of years science says humans have been alive. Something like 6,000 years vs 150,000 years (specifically, homo sapiens). I know some Christians resolve this by embracing the allegory theory of the Bible, but many do not and refuse to.

 

Recorded human history is only about 5000 years old. The Bible does not actually state an age for either the Earth or Human Life. IF you read Genesis carefully it shows people from the very beginning of time worshiping God and also other Gods. The one true God starting at around 4000 years ago began a covenant with basically one family to create lasting salvation. The holy scripture was recorded by the Kingdom of Isreal from oral traditions starting around 1200 BC.

 

So, God's revelation did not come all at once. Like any relationship it has had stages. This fits rationally within the framework of both history and life. People were clearly worshiping God 150,000 years ago.

 

As to why you are not FEELING it. This is simple. If you pay attention to the Bible it states very clearly that God chooses people, People do not choose God. If the Bible doesn't make sense to you and you can't feel it... you likely were not chosen. Judaism is an analogy for the Christian faith. Jews were born into the faith. God chose them to be his people... people did not choose God. It's pretty arrogant to think the other way around... that somehow people determine the fate of God.

[Cobra_X]

I attended an Ashram recently where the Guru\Priest who runs the center is both an ordained Greek orthodox bishop and also a practicing Hindu. The Ashram temple has both Greek orthodox and Hindu worshiping areas within the same building and Greek orthodox Nuns and Hindu Monks working there together side by side. Quite a site to behold. When preaching or teaching the Guru references both Christian and Hindu teachings interchangeably.

 

Eternal life vs Reincarnation. Kundalini vs the Holy Spirit. Nirvana vs Heaven ..... are they really incompatible or simply describing the same thing ?

 

I've studied every major religion. Christianity is unique.

 

The worlds religions generally follow this equation. Do X and receive Y. Christianity because of the doctrine of Grace is the only major religion that does not conform to this. Christians receive blessings because of God's grace and do nothing to deserve it. They are then asked to live a life reflecting that grace, and some do this better than others.

[Hecan]

Get the Bible and study. Yes, others can help but I promise you, put 5 people in a room and get 5 different answers. Read and study for yourself. You may find it fascinating. Find a study tool with Greek words and translations and you will see how the original wording /meaning has often been changed.

 

Quick thought.. How many times do you hear people say " God never gives us more than we can handle ." Have you heard that? Ok. Please, tell me where the Bible says that . I would challenge that it does not. Look around you, how many people have had more than they can handle in their lives. If you've lived long enough then I would bet quite a few. My point us not to start a debate, my point us that what you hear is not necessarily what it says. I also don't think you can pull a sentence from the overall book and call it fact. It's a whole.

 

I wish you tge best in finding answers. I believe the human heart was made with that missing piece. It's up to us what we fill it with.

[Cobra_X]

Quick thought.. How many times do you hear people say " God never gives us more than we can handle ." Have you heard that? Ok. Please, tell me where the Bible says that . I would challenge that it does not. Look around you, how many people have had more than they can handle in their lives. If you've lived long enough then I would bet quite a few. My point us not to start a debate, my point us that what you hear is not necessarily what it says. I also don't think you can pull a sentence from the overall book and call it fact. It's a whole.

 

This is a good point. This saying does not come from the Bible... it's more likely from chicken soup for the soul.

 

Keep in mind all of the Christians fed to lions. Was that more than they could handle? The reward of Christian faith is not comfort in life, but glory in death.

[Gr8fuln2020]

Recorded human history is only about 5000 years old. The Bible does not actually state an age for either the Earth or Human Life. IF you read Genesis carefully it shows people from the very beginning of time worshiping God and also other Gods. The one true God starting at around 4000 years ago began a covenant with basically one family to create lasting salvation. The holy scripture was recorded by the Kingdom of Isreal from oral traditions starting around 1200 BC.

 

So, God's revelation did not come all at once. Like any relationship it has had stages. This fits rationally within the framework of both history and life. People were clearly worshiping God 150,000 years ago.

 

As to why you are not FEELING it. This is simple. If you pay attention to the Bible it states very clearly that God chooses people, People do not choose God. If the Bible doesn't make sense to you and you can't feel it... you likely were not chosen. Judaism is an analogy for the Christian faith. Jews were born into the faith. God chose them to be his people... people did not choose God. It's pretty arrogant to think the other way around... that somehow people determine the fate of God.

 

People having believed IN THE GOD 150,000 years ago? Where do you come up with this????

 

It is COMMON that traditional christianity teaches and emphasizes that people GO TO GOD and ACCEPT HIM. It is very common practice to remind people that it is their choice. Also, this dubious 'FEELING' is often something that self-proclaimed believers like to use w/o any fruitful foundation.

 

Christianity often claims that you are saved by grace alone, BUT those whose works, actions do not reflect what is Christ-like are NOT saved. If your life does not reflect the grace of Christ, YOU ARE NOT SAVED no matter how you want to dismiss the 'works' part of your faith/practice.

[Gr8fuln2020]

Get the Bible and study. Yes, others can help but I promise you, put 5 people in a room and get 5 different answers. Read and study for yourself. You may find it fascinating. Find a study tool with Greek words and translations and you will see how the original wording /meaning has often been changed.

 

Quick thought.. How many times do you hear people say " God never gives us more than we can handle ." Have you heard that? Ok. Please, tell me where the Bible says that . I would challenge that it does not. Look around you, how many people have had more than they can handle in their lives. If you've lived long enough then I would bet quite a few. My point us not to start a debate, my point us that what you hear is not necessarily what it says. I also don't think you can pull a sentence from the overall book and call it fact. It's a whole.

 

I wish you tge best in finding answers. I believe the human heart was made with that missing piece. It's up to us what we fill it with.

 

Excellent. Many, if not most, are notorious for picking and choosing scripture. The vast majority of believers are considerably influenced by their up-bringing and denomination as it pertains to how to interpret the bible as a whole. I have yet to meet, hear, read anyone who is not influenced by some bias. Go and find a group of people open to discussion and find a good copy of the original GREEK translation of the scriptures. Have other versions on hand to compare. You will find some very interesting 'differences.'

 

Again, GOD NEVER GIVES YOU MORE THAN YOU CAN HANDLE is something traditional Christians like to claim to encourage AND also to point out how your own faith is lacking. Of course this saying is not true.

[BC1980]

Excellent. Many, if not most, are notorious for picking and choosing scripture. The vast majority of believers are considerably influenced by their up-bringing and denomination as it pertains to how to interpret the bible as a whole. I have yet to meet, hear, read anyone who is not influenced by some bias. Go and find a group of people open to discussion and find a good copy of the original GREEK translation of the scriptures. Have other versions on hand to compare. You will find some very interesting 'differences.'

 

I'm currently reading through Daniel and John, and I'm always surprised at how different things look when you read and entire book from start to finish. Instead of picking a parable from the NT or a story from the OT, reading a book from start to finish offers an entirely different perspective. Some of the stuff is just downright weird. John is a weird gospel as it is, but reading it from start to finish has been even weirder. A lot of this stuff is more palatable when you pick and choose a certain story of verse, which is obviously why people tend to do so.

 

I read Exodus last summer, and, now, reading Joshua, I'm more and more aware of the fact that the Israelites were not exactly monotheistic. It looks more like they believed in many gods and thought Yahweh was the best god.

[BC1980]

I recently heard someone describe his faith as half of his brain is atheist, and half of his brain believes in God. I feel like that describes me pretty well. There is a part of my brain that says all of this religions business is complete nonsense and another part that thinks this world is just too weird to have come into existence by accident and with no clear purpose.

[Gr8fuln2020]

I recently heard someone describe his faith as half of his brain is atheist, and half of his brain believes in God. I feel like that describes me pretty well. There is a part of my brain that says all of this religions business is complete nonsense and another part that thinks this world is just too weird to have come into existence by accident and with no clear purpose.

 

Agnostic, no? There is a deep and undeniably disconnect between the god of religion(s) and the real world. DEEP. This is why people seem more and more skeptical of the existence of a deity as mostly described by Judeo-Christian ranks. I think people who do abandon their standing and existence in this natural world and sincerely try to make sense of it are in your boat.

[Gr8fuln2020]

I'm currently reading through Daniel and John, and I'm always surprised at how different things look when you read and entire book from start to finish. Instead of picking a parable from the NT or a story from the OT, reading a book from start to finish offers an entirely different perspective. Some of the stuff is just downright weird. John is a weird gospel as it is, but reading it from start to finish has been even weirder. A lot of this stuff is more palatable when you pick and choose a certain story of verse, which is obviously why people tend to do so.

 

I read Exodus last summer, and, now, reading Joshua, I'm more and more aware of the fact that the Israelites were not exactly monotheistic. It looks more like they believed in many gods and thought Yahweh was the best god.

 

I have consistently found that when you approach such inconsistencies or peculiarities that believers have a very difficult time explaining them or reconciling such ideas. When I first started learning about scripture, I sought out people who were eager to seek a more academic approach. Not easy to do. Like I said, too many people are indelibly influenced by their upbringing, culture, biases. There's a reason why there are HUNDREDS of different 'christians' denominations alone.

[Cobra_X]

People having believed IN THE GOD 150,000 years ago? Where do you come up with this????

 

It is COMMON that traditional christianity teaches and emphasizes that people GO TO GOD and ACCEPT HIM. It is very common practice to remind people that it is their choice. Also, this dubious 'FEELING' is often something that self-proclaimed believers like to use w/o any fruitful foundation.

 

Christianity often claims that you are saved by grace alone, BUT those whose works, actions do not reflect what is Christ-like are NOT saved. If your life does not reflect the grace of Christ, YOU ARE NOT SAVED no matter how you want to dismiss the 'works' part of your faith/practice.

 

Humans have an innate yearning for spirituality. If we existed 150,000 years ago, then we had a religion. Maybe the worshiped sticks and rocks, or maybe it was Judaism. No written record exists. However, we do have proof that oral traditions can be extremely accurate.

 

I've read the New Testament several times. Jesus literally states that some people are chosen and that nothing can take their faith away. Yes in the book of James it is said that faith without works is dead, but those works come from faith, not the other way around.

 

My point being that there are those who have a yearning for God, but cannot have faith because they are not chosen. I'm likely one of those.