Want to believe in God but can't

[Gr8fuln2020]

You believe in science? Science is literally observation, nothing more. How can you believe in observation? That really makes no sense. If what you mean are the ideas BEHIND science, such as the theories of evolution and things like medicine, etc, then you believe in PHILOSOPHIES and ENGINEERING which are associated with science--but don't confuse these with science itself. Once you get into the realm of hypothesizing you are leaning the realm of pure science. Science is actually very neutral and itself proves almost nothing that we are looking for.

 

I said this before and I'll say it again...there is nothing more frustrating than listening to someone who claims to believe in the omnipotence/omniscient God trying to explain our natural world.

 

First of all, science DOES NOT preclude the existence of God. This, more than anything else, terrifies the believer. They want to undermine science b/c they fear that it will somehow discredit the existence of a god. Yes, some will use it to do so, but the believer who IGNORES the natural world, the natural world created by GOD perpetrates a disservice that further undermines God's desire to bring more to him.

 

Your faith, the bible doesn't prove anything either. In fact, as we observe the natural world, the actual world we human beings live in, there is little to no evidence of a deity that is in control nor cares to be.

 

Your day to day existence, human knowledge to create for good, healing...that comes from God. There are many Christian scientists and there have been in the past. The notion that one cannot believe in science and God is absolutely absurd and serves only to reveal just what little faith believers actually have in God and his/her ability.

 

And in some ways, it also reveals just how ignorant some believers are of science and what it is...

[knabe]

3. The most undermining element of faith is not the non-believers, rather the self-professed believers who, by hypocrisy and inconsistency, undermine the 'church.'

 

As a professing and practicing Christian I wholeheartedly agree with you. Atheists are not hurting Christianity; Christians are.

 

And it's not the "sinning Christians" who are doing most of the harm. because there is not one person on this thread who professes belief who has not sinned this week. Nope.

 

It's the Pharisees, the prideful and haughty (which the Bible says God hates, by the way), the angry, argumentative, and arrogant, who turn people away from believing. Heck, I'm a Christian, and even I don't want to be around them.

[aurelius99]

As a professing and practicing Christian I wholeheartedly agree with you. Atheists are not hurting Christianity; Christians are.

 

And it's not the "sinning Christians" who are doing most of the harm. because there is not one person on this thread who professes belief who has not sinned this week. Nope.

 

It's the Pharisees, the prideful and haughty (which the Bible says God hates, by the way), the angry, argumentative, and arrogant, who turn people away from believing. Heck, I'm a Christian, and even I don't want to be around them.

 

I agree...but be careful how you define haughty and arrogant. John the Baptist, Moses, and Paul might all be perceived as arrogant by today's generation, while people like Joel Osteen is perceived as loving and smiling. The truth is the opposite. Outward appearances can be tricky. The Bible even says not to judge by appearance but that we SHOULD judge by truth and "right judgement". The Pharisees, for example, were considered loving and noble even by the religious, but Jesus said their hearts were full of dead man's bones and corruption.

 

I say this because being "argumentative" is not necessarily bad. If you are arguing on behalf of truth and in love, there's nothing wrong with it. Didn't Jesus even rage and yell at the "nice" Pharisees? Oh that Jesus is just so "mean spirited", right?

 

Truth supersedes everything. Outward appearances are deceptive.

[Justanaverageguy]

All these are spiritual energies falls under different names: Holy Spirit, Holy Ghost, Life Force, Great Spirit, RA, KI, QI, Chi, Shakti, Mana, kundalini, Ase Ire.

 

Yes totally agree - all the different religions and spiritual traditions are essentially pointing to the same truth - but they just have different ways and means of describing it. And yes some are able to perhaps do it better then others ..... or perhaps just in a way that we personally prefer and are more in tune with intellectually or culturally.

 

GOD help me channel his life force energy into those I help as a Healer. I don't see why we all can't understand all these different energy levels and faith use to use them. I just raised my kundalini after 90 days wait. Thus my mind is overwhelm with current events and other things. But no one should knock down GOD might, GOD powers, GOD Energy who is the Supreme being of all of his creation us, because of different cultures belief!

 

Interesting so you work as a healer - What area do you work in specifically ?

 

I've had experience with what some call raising your Kundalini or being touched by the holy spirit. From my experience this is certainly not something to take lightly or offer and encourage to anyone. It is not necessarily a magic wand that suddenly makes someone a better or healthier person. It may have temporary benefits and provide temporary bliss - but if adequate work to purify the persons mental, emotional and physical body has not been done first it can lead to many many problems. The spiritual energy magnifies and intensifies everything - including egoic vices, desires and the karmic consequences of your actions. Things can spiral pretty quickly if you act inappropriately after being imbued with this energy. (and yes I found some of this out the hard way)

 

Raising the kundalini of an average modern person with out them doing adequate preparation or having the right mental and emotional constitution is likely to end very badly. I personally feel thats a large part of what life on earth is really about. Gradually refining ourselves in order that they are ready to take on higher levels of this energy. We live - we learn - we change and we grow - hopefully closer towards the light.

[Justanaverageguy]

The way I see it, "all truth is God's truth". If you want to call something Ximboriadysocrassianism, and if it contains TRUTH, then I'm all for it and I'll call myself one. However, with that being said, not all true ideas are the highest level of truth. Taoism contains basic principles of truth but it doesn't get fulfilled with specifics in time and space--as Christianity does, for example, by the life of Christ. Even Christ said the Old Testament, while true, is not the fullest fulfillment of the truth. It satisfied for the time (since it was all true), but it did not become fully realized until Christ and the New Testament.

 

Yes agree with most of what you stated - and also agree that some spiritual traditions are perhaps of a higher quality then others - but also sometimes they are just a better fit for the person intellectually or culturally. A preference you could say. They better fit with the way that particular person thinks and has been taught to understand the world since childhood. In this way we could simply say that teaching xyz is "better for me".

 

I think that might be the case when you talk about Taoism vs Christianity. When you say - "Taoism contains basic principles of truth but it doesn't get fulfilled with specifics in time and space--as Christianity does, for example, by the life of Christ."

 

This is indeed the absolute intention of Taoism. To specifically avoid that. To avoid giving a very strict Dogma\philosophy and set of ritualized beliefs and practices one MUST follow which can confuse the focus of a spiritual school over time and perhaps be misinterpreted or over emphasized losing track of what really matters. I would not say it is better or worse then christianity - just different. Both have strengths and weaknesses. I would say Taoism is perhaps a more difficult school to follow and perhaps requires a decent base to work from before starting because of it's lack of specificity - but I'm not sure it makes it "less truthful". It encourages knowledge through self discovery. The truth taught in Taoism is to embrace life in actions that support you as a person and you will discover the Tao as part of this journey. It provides guidelines but allows flexibility within this.

 

I see it merely as a different means of reaching the same end goal - some may argue a more difficult and longer path ..... others that it is much quicker. I think it totally depends on the person coming to the practice.

 

My personal preference is for combining practices and schools - learning what each has to teach me, taking what works best for my spiritual growth and then combining them in my everyday life. In this way Christianity and Buddhism, Yogic Schools, Qi Gong New Age teachings and also Taoism and Zen (which I have only come to recently in the last couple of years) have all provided me with benefits. I find them all necessary parts of a puzzle that if missing would leave gaps.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Justanaverageguy

[knabe]

I agree...but be careful how you define haughty and arrogant. John the Baptist, Moses, and Paul might all be perceived as arrogant by today's generation, while people like Joel Osteen is perceived as loving and smiling. The truth is the opposite. Outward appearances can be tricky. The Bible even says not to judge by appearance but that we SHOULD judge by truth and "right judgement". The Pharisees, for example, were considered loving and noble even by the religious, but Jesus said their hearts were full of dead man's bones and corruption.

 

I say this because being "argumentative" is not necessarily bad. If you are arguing on behalf of truth and in love, there's nothing wrong with it. Didn't Jesus even rage and yell at the "nice" Pharisees? Oh that Jesus is just so "mean spirited", right?

 

Truth supersedes everything. Outward appearances are deceptive.

 

Blech. Joel O'Steen gives me the creeps. That prosperity crap.

 

OP, your honesty with this topic impresses me. I think most people, unless they have led a charmed life, have struggled with belief, why they believe, or how on earth they could possibly continue to believe. I know I have. And what has kept me sustained might not work for you.

 

Faith is both simple and very complex.

[aurelius99]

I said this before and I'll say it again...there is nothing more frustrating than listening to someone who claims to believe in the omnipotence/omniscient God trying to explain our natural world.

 

First of all, science DOES NOT preclude the existence of God. This, more than anything else, terrifies the believer. They want to undermine science b/c they fear that it will somehow discredit the existence of a god. Yes, some will use it to do so, but the believer who IGNORES the natural world, the natural world created by GOD perpetrates a disservice that further undermines God's desire to bring more to him.

 

Your faith, the bible doesn't prove anything either. In fact, as we observe the natural world, the actual world we human beings live in, there is little to no evidence of a deity that is in control nor cares to be.

 

Your day to day existence, human knowledge to create for good, healing...that comes from God. There are many Christian scientists and there have been in the past. The notion that one cannot believe in science and God is absolutely absurd and serves only to reveal just what little faith believers actually have in God and his/her ability.

 

And in some ways, it also reveals just how ignorant some believers are of science and what it is...

 

Not sure if you're referring to me on this. I have a masters degree of science and consider myself pretty well versed on this. I'm not "terrified" of science. Are you projecting your own views onto other people, perhaps?

[BC1980]

Blech. Joel O'Steen gives me the creeps. That prosperity crap.

 

OP, your honesty with this topic impresses me. I think most people, unless they have led a charmed life, have struggled with belief, why they believe, or how on earth they could possibly continue to believe. I know I have. And what has kept me sustained might not work for you.

 

Faith is both simple and very complex.

 

I think that most people have got to question it at some point. Whether or not they delve deeply into their questions is another story.

[Gr8fuln2020]

Not sure if you're referring to me on this. I have a masters degree of science and consider myself pretty well versed on this. I'm not "terrified" of science. Are you projecting your own views onto other people, perhaps?

 

Yes, I was directing my comments towards your own. For someone with a masters in science, you don't seem to communicate that you have a thorough understanding of what science is. I embrace science. I embrace the natural world that is right in front of our faces and one that GOD has created. Do you?

 

As I said it earlier, 'christians' seem to have the most difficult time reconciling the natural world with that of the scriptural. I cringe when believers to try do so in a context that requires that they communicate clearly to a diverse group. It's always easy to convince people who think the same.

[aurelius99]

Yes, I was directing my comments towards your own. For someone with a masters in science, you don't seem to communicate that you have a thorough understanding of what science is. I embrace science. I embrace the natural world that is right in front of our faces and one that GOD has created. Do you?

 

How so? I need specifics. Let's get "scientific", shall we?

 

As I said it earlier, 'christians' seem to have the most difficult time reconciling the natural world with that of the scriptural. I cringe when believers to try do so in a context that requires that they communicate clearly to a diverse group. It's always easy to convince people who think the same.

 

Not sure why you keep saying this. I know of many Christians who accept the natural world. And what about Isaac Newton?

[Justanaverageguy]

I think that most people have got to question it at some point. Whether or not they delve deeply into their questions is another story.

 

And inevitably whether they dive deeply into the questions and truly seek to find deeper answers determines if they ever do. Those who are happy (or simply indifferent enough) to believe the surface level - what others tell them - what a book says - and rely on "simply having faith" will have to live with only that level of understanding. Those that choose to seek deeper truths and real direct experiential knowledge will often find it. You won't get any more unless you actively play a part in seeking it

Edited July 12, 2017 by Justanaverageguy

[aurelius99]

And inevitably whether they dive deeply into the questions and truly seek to find deeper answers determines if they ever do. Those who are happy (or simply indifferent enough) to believe the surface level - what others tell them - what a book says - and rely on "simply having faith" will have to live with only that level of understanding. Those that choose to seek deeper truths and real direct experiential knowledge will often find it. You won't get any more unless you actively play a part in seeking it

 

Blaise Pascal, the mathematician who is known for "Pascals Wager", has a great quote regarding this:

 

"In faith there is enough light for those who want to believe and enough shadows to blind those who don't."

 

Part of me thinks that God intended for it to be this way.

[BC1980]

Blaise Pascal, the mathematician who is known for "Pascals Wager", has a great quote regarding this:

 

"In faith there is enough light for those who want to believe and enough shadows to blind those who don't."

 

Part of me thinks that God intended for it to be this way.

 

That's a pretty good quote.

[l8estnews]

GT,

 

Are you open to the possibility that it's not the Consciousness of God that is behind or causing all the suffering and chaos that we see on this planet, but the lesser-lower consciousness of the Fallen Beings or the legions, forces and agents of Antigod?

 

I agree with you that basic Christian (and other major religions') doctrine makes no sense but I think that's because all Truth and everything truly of God has been taken out of it -- by that same fallen-lesser-lower consciousness that now belongs exclusively to the material realm of man/humanity, for sake of greed, selfishness, envy and lust.

I don't think it has anything to do with the TRUE God of Light and Love...only with the falsified, graven-imaged angry, vengeful, psychotic, despotic 'god' of the Christian (and other major religions') doctrine.

 

In my case, I do. But I have a problem with this like all other Christians: We believe in an all-powerful, all-present God. It goes back to the question Why He is allowing this to happen? What's His purpose? Why do people have to be rich or poor? Why do some people are very happy with their lives and why a lot are not?

 

The world is unfair, yes. But WHY is it unfair? Are the people with good looks, wealth and happy lives are much more better than us? I mean, they get to enjoy this life AND the great revelation in the next life. Why do I need to suffer when others don't? Why do I have to learn to be content with what I have and others don't have this kind of situation?

 

I just don't understand. Logical answer is: God is NOT all-powerful. God is NOT all-present. God is NOT God at all.

[l8estnews]

I gave up the Bible as absolute truth and authority long ago. There is too much that doesn't make sense or contradicts itself. I see the Bible as different voices struggling to make sense of God and Jesus. Basically, a bunch of voices that struggle like us to understand exactly what God is and why bad things happen, what's the purpose of life, what happens when we die, ect. When you start looking at doctrine outside of the basics (there is one God, Jesus as a sacrifice for sins), it's all so nuanced that the average person probably has no idea what it even means. A lot of those questions caused me to throw in the towel for many years and declare myself an atheist. It's sad really that the church is not a place where many of us feel comfortable talking about these things. Because a lot of people have the same questions.

 

The suffering thing is very difficult to make sense of. I think a lot of people stop believing in God when they experience something awful and realize you can't pray your way out of something, or you can't be good enough to get rewards from God.

 

This post resonates to me, too. I am at my lowest right now and I have been for 7 years. People always tell me to pray, and "keep hanging!" or things like these but it keeps getting worse. They said that "there's no way but up, when you're at the bottom" but mind you, there's still a deeper ground that the world can throw you at. I prayed to God in the most desperate of times, but I ended up having another MAJOR circumstance that I have faced earlier this year.

 

I am really contemplating suicide for a while now. Life seems to be so hard to live by. I mean, why wake up another day just to feel and experience how life sucks? If I will have to choose between being dead and being "alive but feels like you're dead" then I'll choose the former. At least in that state, I won't feel being dead.

 

As for the Bible. I have to admit that there are so many things that you can learn about life in that collection of books. But the conflict arises on how people translate the texts quite literally. People doesn't understand that the Bible was written by a collection of authors THOUSANDS of years ago. There are so many different cultural contexts that doesn't apply to us anymore (e.g. Not eating crabs or crawling sea creatures. I expect a lot of people got poisoned from red tide or similar stuff so they thought eating them would be pretty bad) and of course, these are old texts written originally in HEBREW. How are we sure that the correct contexts were translated accurately?

 

I read the Bible texts still but i disregard the parts that doesn't make sense to me at all. Alas, a lot of Christians doesn't know how to follow common sense at all.

[BC1980]

In my case, I do. But I have a problem with this like all other Christians: We believe in an all-powerful, all-present God. It goes back to the question Why He is allowing this to happen? What's His purpose? Why do people have to be rich or poor? Why do some people are very happy with their lives and why a lot are not?

 

The world is unfair, yes. But WHY is it unfair? Are the people with good looks, wealth and happy lives are much more better than us? I mean, they get to enjoy this life AND the great revelation in the next life. Why do I need to suffer when others don't? Why do I have to learn to be content with what I have and others don't have this kind of situation?

 

I just don't understand. Logical answer is: God is NOT all-powerful. God is NOT all-present. God is NOT God at all.

 

This is one of the most common questions people have, and I certainly don't have the answer. Many writers of the Bible wrangle with this question. Job is one of my favorite books, and it offers an answer to this question. Basically, we aren't God, so we don't get to ask or know why people suffer. That's the answer you get in Job. I actually find that answer oddly comforting. I've started to actually sit down and read some books of the Bible from start to finish because I only heard bits and pieces in church growing up. It's very different when you read a book from beginning to end. I'm reading Exodus right now, and it's insane. God is committing mass murder and killing kids left and right. The entire thing reads like some kind of Greek myth. I've always had a problem with animal sacrifice as well. Does anybody else feel that way? It seems like some kind of pagan ritual, and I have a very hard time seeing God as someone who would command animal sacrifice. It's disgusting and violent IMO.

 

But back to your original question, so many people have grappled with this question, and, yes, it does make more sense to say that God does not exist when it comes down to how unjust this life is. I've heard a million reasons why, and I'm sure you have too. Anything ranging from it's all God's plan for his glory TO the price of sin is that God doesn't intervene in our daily lives. Actually, the later is the view I tend to favor. I don't think God intervenes in our daily lives, but then something happens that makes me think I might be completely wrong and he sometimes sends signs down to us. I've been really struggling with the violence in the OT for the past few weeks, and, today, my favorite podcast was dedicated to talking about violence in the OT. Weird stuff like that happens to me when I'm struggling with something.

[BC1980]

This post resonates to me, too. I am at my lowest right now and I have been for 7 years. People always tell me to pray, and "keep hanging!" or things like these but it keeps getting worse. They said that "there's no way but up, when you're at the bottom" but mind you, there's still a deeper ground that the world can throw you at. I prayed to God in the most desperate of times, but I ended up having another MAJOR circumstance that I have faced earlier this year.

 

I am really contemplating suicide for a while now. Life seems to be so hard to live by. I mean, why wake up another day just to feel and experience how life sucks? If I will have to choose between being dead and being "alive but feels like you're dead" then I'll choose the former. At least in that state, I won't feel being dead.

 

As for the Bible. I have to admit that there are so many things that you can learn about life in that collection of books. But the conflict arises on how people translate the texts quite literally. People doesn't understand that the Bible was written by a collection of authors THOUSANDS of years ago. There are so many different cultural contexts that doesn't apply to us anymore (e.g. Not eating crabs or crawling sea creatures. I expect a lot of people got poisoned from red tide or similar stuff so they thought eating them would be pretty bad) and of course, these are old texts written originally in HEBREW. How are we sure that the correct contexts were translated accurately?

 

I read the Bible texts still but i disregard the parts that doesn't make sense to me at all. Alas, a lot of Christians doesn't know how to follow common sense at all.

 

I'm so sorry you are dealing with so much pain. Life is very unjust, but there is also tremendous beauty in this world.

 

There is so much to learn from the Bible. Ecclesiastes is one of the most profound books. I think people forget that the people writing these books were just humans like us too, and they injected their own interpretation and spin on things. Look at James vs. Paul for instance. There are plenty of books that aren't in the canon that offer commensurate wisdom and revelation. C.S. Lewis is a great example. The basics are consistent- Jesus died for our sins, monotheism, he rose from the dead. Those things aren't in dispute in the NT. The ideas about how you practice the Christian life are in dispute and up for interpretation. Why certain things happen is not understood. The concept of an afterlife/heaven and who gets in is actually not even clear in the NT.

 

All of this leads me to a question: why would God allow us to struggle to understand him? Why would he not show us he is present and give us the answers?

[Timshel]

With all due respect, why do 'people' refer to God as he or him? As though God is gender specific, lol.

I know, a slip, it's easier to type and the painting on the wall of the white bearded dude on the throne with a magnificent glow about his head.

 

Why does God allow chaos, pain and injustice? If God is the Alpha/Omega..the First/Last...Beginning/End...why should the Infinite be concerned with finite? As though something we do or don't will change the end result.

 

I am certain that God exists but there has never been a time that I have thrown my fists to God in indignation. I know that I am ashes and that my value is in action and faith.

 

For every sorrow there is worse....every story, one more awful. God has no beginning or end.

 

Why should we feel above or 'special' over Creation itself?

 

There isn't a reason to be angry with God, God Is. We are the weather.

[l8estnews]

If God is the Alpha/Omega..the First/Last...Beginning/End...why should the Infinite be concerned with finite? As though something we do or don't will change the end result.

 

Because it's cruel. If God really created us in His image and likeness, the He should know the effects of the suffering He let us experience.

 

And your argument paints God as someone with Superiority Complex. "I am infinite, you're finite. I shouldn't care about you.: I mean, wtf? If God behaves like this, then He is no different from irresponsible parents who doesn't give a sh*t about their kids.

 

No, this God is not God.

[Timshel]

l8estnews, my thoughts are that God is not a someone...and that we are the ones with a superiority complex.

 

I'm sorry that you are in a rough place at this time. It is easy to see from your posts that you are quite insightful and compassionate.

I believe that human beings have exceptional potential. I believe that whether a human being or humanity collectively fulfills it's potential isn't God's responsibility or concern.

 

Energy will remain regardless and the potential cycle of conscious energy is infinite.

 

Religion is very personal and for me, not something that is conveyed simply. I hope that you find peace in your own beliefs and I do believe that you are not alone.

[TheFinalWord]

All of this leads me to a question: why would God allow us to struggle to understand him? Why would he not show us he is present and give us the answers?

 

Great question! From my understanding of the bible, there are a couple of reasons:

 

1) It glorifies God.

 

2) It keeps us humble; we must rely on Christ. We can never know God; we are only known of God.

 

3) It makes life interesting.

 

A couple scriptures to mediate on...

 

--It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

 

 

--But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces.

 

--Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

[pureinheart]

Great question! From my understanding of the bible, there are a couple of reasons:

 

1) It glorifies God.

 

2) It keeps us humble; we must rely on Christ. We can never know God; we are only known of God.

 

3) It makes life interesting.

 

A couple scriptures to mediate on...

 

--It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

 

 

--But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces.

 

--Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

 

Wow- amazing answer!

[l8estnews]

I'm sorry that you are in a rough place at this time. It is easy to see from your posts that you are quite insightful and compassionate.

I believe that human beings have exceptional potential. I believe that whether a human being or humanity collectively fulfills it's potential isn't God's responsibility or concern.

 

I was born in a Catholic family. I was raised in Catholic school from Preparatory day up until my College years. I was taught that God is all-powerful (Job 9:4-10,Eph.3:20), all-knowing (Psalm 147:5, Psalm 147:5), all-present (Psalm 139:7-10, Jeremiah 23:24, Prov. 15:3.) And YES,I was also taught that God is a Personal God, who cares for our well-being (Isaiah 43:3-13.) and is a Perfect Father (Matthew 5:48), who comforts us in all our troubles (2 Corinthians 1:3-4)

 

And He also said, that as long as we have fear in Him, He will never stop doing good to us (Jeremiah 32:40)

 

I gladly accepted these things as they were taught to me. As a child. Because these are just some of "God's Good News."

 

Then came my suffering, or people's suffering. I asked where is the God who will comfort me in all my troubles? People started telling me then that God is silent because He wanted to strengthen me.

 

Okay. Fine. Let's endure and hope for the best then. But I have been enduring for 7 years. I already got diagnosed with all mental disorders such as severe depression, anxiety and stress. But God is still silent. If He wanted to strengthen me in His silence, well, I am not sure about his definition of it but clearly, I am breaking apart already. This is not strengthening, this is torture. But I never lost faith. I still prayed, telling him all my troubles.

 

Then, earlier this year, I almost got imprisoned for something that "I did." I won't delve into the issue but it was such a minor thing that even my lawyers are flabbergasted as to how it was twisted so that it will sound a felony. The case was dismissed, as rightfully so but it strained my relationship with my Mom, some of my friends, and my image will always be tainted since I got an arrest even if I was not convicted.

 

Then I asked again, why did this happen to me when I am so desperate to get a good life? In this unjust world, innocence is not a factor. As long as you have a felony charge, regardless of your innocence or not, you will be forever marked.

 

People then said to me that this is not God's doing, but there is really just evil in this world. Innocent people get imprisoned, children die, Good people die.

 

Then I stated to question: What can God do? What can He do? If he chooses to be silent, and according to Timshel, doesn't need to meddle to finite beings' affairs, then what is God then? If the Bible's image and portrayal of God is NOT God, then who is God truly? Who is He to Us? What are we to Him? I don't know about you but this is NOT a loving relationship.

 

God created us supposedly to have a LOVING relationship to him. We are in Loveshack. Surely, everyone knows here that silent treatment and indifference is NOT a loving relationship (Gosh, I think I should post this in the Divorcing section)

 

They said that we know God is real, through 3 things He revealed to us:

 

1.) Through Christ

2.) Through the Word of God

3.) Through Creation

 

- The account of Jesus Christ's life can only be verified through the Bible, and no other sources can give us anything about Christ. This man healed the sick, had a very public execution through Pontius Pilate and did many miracles of the time. Yet, no mention of him in any roman documents, memoirs of anyone from that time, nothing. No one. This man claimed He is the son of God. Surely, anyone aside from His "apostles" will mention him even just once in some written form right?

 

- The Word of God is an inspiration written by man.

 

- Creation is now the basis of Science.

 

Sorry, I still have a lot of points I wanted to elaborate here but I am running out of time. But you get what I mean.

Edited July 20, 2017 by l8estnews

[TheFinalWord]

Yet, no mention of him in any roman documents, memoirs of anyone from that time, nothing. No one. This man claimed He is the son of God. Surely, anyone aside from His "apostles" will mention him even just once in some written form right?

 

Recommend to read up on Tacitus...

 

The Roman historian and senator Tacitus referred to Christ, his execution by Pontius Pilate, and the existence of early Christians in Rome in one page of his final work, Annals (written ca. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44.[1]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ

[Justanaverageguy]

Because it's cruel. If God really created us in His image and likeness, the He should know the effects of the suffering He let us experience.

 

And your argument paints God as someone with Superiority Complex. "I am infinite, you're finite. I shouldn't care about you.: I mean, wtf? If God behaves like this, then He is no different from irresponsible parents who doesn't give a sh*t about their kids.

 

No, this God is not God.

 

So the question of suffering is a hard one and in truth I feel it has multiple factors that come into play.

 

Firstly - Knowing the effects of suffering. That's a tricky one - is the effect always bad ? If I suffer in the gym .... it is for a reason because it builds strength and resilience in those muscles. It hurts while I'm going through it but it offers long term benefits to my health and well being. It's every easy for us while in the midst of suffering to say this is horrible - I feel terrible - how can this possibly be of any benefit to anything or anyone ?!? But god plays the long game. He sees the gains - not the pains.

 

So for this reason some of the suffering we encounter in this life is for a higher purpose. Personal development and growth. If we are happy - if we always get what we want - we have no reason to ever change. We would simply continue doing what we are doing. And whilst we might think we do enough to get by and be good person who doesn't cause too much trouble - eventually the teacher will say ok time for you to give more. Pain and suffering is a catalyst for change and positive growth. I heard a quote I like which is simply -

 

"Ruin is a gift - for Ruin is the road to transformation."

 

Transformation is not pretty, nor fun, nor easily earned. Its a painful metamorphisis. Stay strong through the hard times and you will see the benefits down the road.

 

But clearly that answer doesn't satisfy all suffering we encounter in this world. Regarding him being like a mean parent - I think of it as more then simply a parent \ child relationship. It is a symbiosis. We are directly connected and we feed off god's energy\life force (Jesus was being symbolic but also literal when he stated "this is my body this is my blood".) Our lives come at a cost to god. He expends his literal life force so that we might live.

 

Thus like any intelligent person who is providing something of great value - he only gives more when he sees a return on his investment. If you had a child who came to you and asked you for money to use for food and rent for a month - but then they wasted it on beer and partying. What would you say when they came to you a week later complaining of hunger and thirst and asking for the months worth of money again. You would admonish them for their wastefulness and possibly punish them likely by reducing the amount of money they get or making them do work to pay for it in the hope that they would learn to use it more wisely. But if you then provided more money - and they simply did the same again. What now ? Eventually the father would cut off the supply.

 

When the child came to him and said - Father why do you hate me so much ? Why do you make me suffer in hunger when I come to you asking for food and shelter. He would simply say because I cannot afford to keep giving away my money when it is wasted. I will go broke and be unable to feed my other children. Thus much of the suffering in this life comes from this simple truth. Our own wastefulness with what we have been given - we have been put on rations as a result. God loves us - he wants to be happy - but he only continues to give to those who use it wisely. Thus we must evolve to become wise with how we live.

 

Then lastly the final cause of suffering is simply the world we live in. God has ultimate control - but he created us to have free will and in the end he cannot force us to be good and treat each other well. We must learn to do that for ourselves and unfortunately that often means some hard lessons.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Justanaverageguy