Was it my doing (neediness) or his (unavailability)?

[laelithia]

Honestly, the more you say, the more this guy just sounds like a player.

 

I don't think there's something fundamentally "wrong" with you. Many of us encounter people like him and let them hurt us more than they should. And that usually happens when we're feeling less confident and more lonely, so we're more susceptible to fall for the the things we want to hear and ignore the obvious danger signs.

 

Next time, you will know to heed the voice in your head that tells you something is off.

 

For real.

 

You got lovebombed and discarded. You got abused. He sounds like a complete and total narcissist and you don't know this yet because you don't actually know him, but all the signs are there. It's not you. It's him.

 

The part that confuses me with that though is he doesn't have the other characteristics of a player/narcissist. He wasn't overly talkative at all (let alone about himself), and if anything he seemed to exhibit low self esteem rather than high. He divulged some pretty heavy (and unflattering) tales of his past to me and was always making self disparaging jokes. He also talked at length for the guilt he felt in hurting people in the past, like his ex. But I guess that also implies he's hurt a lot of people... it's so confusing! Maybe you're right and I just didn't know this person at all. It's so pathetic but I actually miss the person he seemed to be. He was so kind, and sweet and attentive to everything. But then again, 90% of that was through the phone.

 

If he really was a narcissist, how come there was no "devaluation" stage? And he went from lovebombing to just totally discarding me. For some reason, I keep going over and over that in my head. Why the sudden change?

Edited April 26, 2017 by laelithia

[SpecialJ]

I'm about to write a really, really long reply, so I hope it helps....

 

First, there are overt narcissists and covert narcissists that present differently. You should familiarize yourself with the traits of both to protect yourself. You may also want to look up fantasy bond, which you seem to be describing from your perspective.

 

Second, a few other people have also commented on this thread that he has problems, and likely narcissistic traits. Your self blame and questioning is a normal response to being in that situation, which makes it even more likely. And let me tell you, I've been there. I have more details in the only thread I've started, but here's what happened that seems maybe relevant to you. It's not the same situation, but I responded to it similarly:

 

When my last relationship fell apart after a year, with him telling me he lost physical attraction suddenly for really seemingly shallow and confusing reasons... for which he completely blamed me... all I did was internalize everything I must have done wrong to lose a man I loved. But I actually was a really great partner (so much so that he desperately tried to get me to accept his "friendship" for months) and I hadn't let myself go, so I couldn't really figure it out. Still, I was crushed, especially that he refused to put any effort into working things out and blindsided me with the info for the first time during the break up. I tried to distance myself from him but kept up the self-blame even so.

 

A few months later, he finally told me that he carried his own past baggage into our relationship that was totally unrelated to me, and that's why he lost attraction. I hadn't changed from when he was infatuated with me and he realized he had a ton of issues (shared in detail, all totally unrelated to me) and there had been nothing I could do because he's messed up. He wanted to fix his issues. But not with me... except as friends.

 

So now, he's told me in vivid detail why it was really him and not me... and because he still didn't want to work on things between us, I STILL blamed myself for not being good enough. Which rationally I knew was crazy, so I went no contact so I could breathe. Several more weeks of self-blaming later, I'm finally starting to believe what our mutual friends said and he told me himself -- the breakup was all about him, I just also happened to be there. But my overly self-blaming response to the breakup was about me, and my damaged self-esteem from the whole thing on top of some unrelated life issues simultaneously happening. It's taken months to be able to even get that far, and several weeks of no contact.

 

Your questions and feelings and responses are your process and natural. But none of it is about him at this point, it's about you. Not, what you could have done differently. He's a mess, and this was doomed, if for no other reason than you were both in a terrible place to seriously or realistically get involved with another person (maybe that made long distance seem safer and more appealing?). This is about you taking time to assess whether or not running after a fleeting passion high is how you want to live your life and what your priorities are. This is about you continuing to go to counseling to focus on yourself and how to build your self esteem so you can either walk away from an unhealthy emotional situation and/or so you can stop sabotaging yourself.

 

He's not going to heal you. He'll probably just make things worse because he's emotionally unhealthy. Best case scenario, he isn't a narcissist and you do both need time to heal (on your own, individually, no contact) from your past relationships. Then, if it is timing, maybe in a couple years you'll find each other again in a healthy and compatible emotional state.

 

But don't count on ever reconciling with him, because he sounds like he has a long history of hurting others -- and feeling regret for that does NOT equal desire to change. I've had experience with someone like this as well and consider myself really lucky that he actually warned me before we got too involved. (Three years out, that other guy hasn't changed at all... and is the guy who led me to stumble on info about covert narcissists! ).

 

I suspect you need more time before you're receptive to a shift in perspective away from how he feels and away from self blame, but if you want to change your situation, you'll get there. Be kind to yourself, go no contact, and you'll get your focus back to where it belongs... on you!

Edited April 27, 2017 by SpecialJ

[laelithia]

I'm about to write a really, really long reply, so I hope it helps....

 

First, there are overt narcissists and covert narcissists that present differently. You should familiarize yourself with the traits of both to protect yourself. You may also want to look up fantasy bond, which you seem to be describing from your perspective.

 

Second, a few other people have also commented on this thread that he has problems, and likely narcissistic traits. Your self blame and questioning is a normal response to being in that situation, which makes it even more likely. And let me tell you, I've been there. I have more details in the only thread I've started, but here's what happened that seems maybe relevant to you. It's not the same situation, but I responded to it similarly:

 

When my last relationship fell apart after a year, with him telling me he lost physical attraction suddenly for really seemingly shallow and confusing reasons... for which he completely blamed me... all I did was internalize everything I must have done wrong to lose a man I loved. But I actually was a really great partner (so much so that he desperately tried to get me to accept his "friendship" for months) and I hadn't let myself go, so I couldn't really figure it out. Still, I was crushed, especially that he refused to put any effort into working things out and blindsided me with the info for the first time during the break up. I tried to distance myself from him but kept up the self-blame even so.

 

A few months later, he finally told me that he carried his own past baggage into our relationship that was totally unrelated to me, and that's why he lost attraction. I hadn't changed from when he was infatuated with me and he realized he had a ton of issues (shared in detail, all totally unrelated to me) and there had been nothing I could do because he's messed up. He wanted to fix his issues. But not with me... except as friends.

 

So now, he's told me in vivid detail why it was really him and not me... and because he still didn't want to work on things between us, I STILL blamed myself for not being good enough. Which rationally I knew was crazy, so I went no contact so I could breathe. Several more weeks of self-blaming later, I'm finally starting to believe what our mutual friends said and he told me himself -- the breakup was all about him, I just also happened to be there. But my overly self-blaming response to the breakup was about me, and my damaged self-esteem from the whole thing on top of some unrelated life issues simultaneously happening. It's taken months to be able to even get that far, and several weeks of no contact.

 

Your questions and feelings and responses are your process and natural. But none of it is about him at this point, it's about you. Not, what you could have done differently. He's a mess, and this was doomed, if for no other reason than you were both in a terrible place to seriously or realistically get involved with another person (maybe that made long distance seem safer and more appealing?). This is about you taking time to assess whether or not running after a fleeting passion high is how you want to live your life and what your priorities are. This is about you continuing to go to counseling to focus on yourself and how to build your self esteem so you can either walk away from an unhealthy emotional situation and/or so you can stop sabotaging yourself.

 

He's not going to heal you. He'll probably just make things worse because he's emotionally unhealthy. Best case scenario, he isn't a narcissist and you do both need time to heal (on your own, individually, no contact) from your past relationships. Then, if it is timing, maybe in a couple years you'll find each other again in a healthy and compatible emotional state.

 

But don't count on ever reconciling with him, because he sounds like he has a long history of hurting others -- and feeling regret for that does NOT equal desire to change. I've had experience with someone like this as well and consider myself really lucky that he actually warned me before we got too involved. (Three years out, that other guy hasn't changed at all... and is the guy who led me to stumble on info about covert narcissists! ).

 

I suspect you need more time before you're receptive to a shift in perspective away from how he feels and away from self blame, but if you want to change your situation, you'll get there. Be kind to yourself, go no contact, and you'll get your focus back to where it belongs... on you!

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you! This is exactly what I needed to hear. I think it's going to take me some time to really understand clearly what happened, but this really helps. You are totally right, reading about covert narcissism feels like reading his autobiography. I'm embarrassed I didn't catch it sooner, but I've never been involved or known one before. Overt narcissists, sure, but not this. It's like they say, a total wolf in sheep's clothing! To be honest, my gut says that he will never initiate contact (still always answers mine though), so I'm going to just leave it at that!

 

You are also absolutely correct in that I think what I'm going through has more to do with him than me. That being said, I actually partook in the fantasy/future faking too, so I'm not blameless in this mess. It's true, the (relatively short) long distance was the perfect addition to this fake recipe of a relationship. It allowed us to be incredibly intimate yet distant at the same time. I really can't thank you enough for your thorough post, it's really starting to make sense to me now.

 

Thank you also to ExpatInItaly, Cookiesandough, Zahara, Ronnys93, divegrl, preraph, DontBreakEven and everyone else who took the time to reply to me.

 

Aaaand just as I finished typing this, he sent me a message (on Snapchat, so mature). Oh, the irony! #ignoreforever.

Edited April 27, 2017 by laelithia

[ExpatInItaly]

The part that confuses me with that though is he doesn't have the other characteristics of a player/narcissist. He wasn't overly talkative at all (let alone about himself), and if anything he seemed to exhibit low self esteem rather than high. He divulged some pretty heavy (and unflattering) tales of his past to me and was always making self disparaging jokes. He also talked at length for the guilt he felt in hurting people in the past, like his ex. But I guess that also implies he's hurt a lot of people... it's so confusing! Maybe you're right and I just didn't know this person at all. It's so pathetic but I actually miss the person he seemed to be. He was so kind, and sweet and attentive to everything. But then again, 90% of that was through the phone.

 

If he really was a narcissist, how come there was no "devaluation" stage? And he went from lovebombing to just totally discarding me. For some reason, I keep going over and over that in my head. Why the sudden change?

 

Because that is what players and unstable people do. They discard you when you served your purpose. There doesn't need to be a succession of stages. Sudden exits are typical of those types.

 

You don't know a person after such a short time and a primarily online/phone relationship. What you had wasn't true intimacy. It was a fantasy constructed at a distance through a mobile device, which is easy to do. Anyone can say anything. He only showed you one side of him; the rest? He's still a stranger. Thus, you won't be able to get a tidy explanation for his behaviour so it's best if you don't drive yourself crazy searching for answers. What purpose does that serve when you know so little about him? You saw only what he wanted you to see. There's more to his story, as there is to everyone's. That is why it is critical to take your time in dating and not plan a future with a virtual stranger. Those that try to get you to do so (ie. him) are to be avoided at all costs. I don't know if you have much relationship experience, but I've dated enough in my day to have seen his type a few times. It's never good.

 

Why have you not blocked him? Please don't say it's because you want to try to make this work by suggesting you move slowly this time or something. Forget this clown, he's not who you thought he was.

Edited April 27, 2017 by ExpatInItaly

[laelithia]

Because that is what players and unstable people do. They discard you when you served your purpose. There doesn't need to be a succession of stages. Sudden exits are typical of those types.

 

You don't know a person after such a short time and a primarily online/phone relationship. What you had wasn't true intimacy. It was a fantasy constructed at a distance through a mobile device, which is easy to do. Anyone can say anything. He only showed you one side of him; the rest? He's still a stranger. Thus, you won't be able to get a tidy explanation for his behaviour so it's best if you don't drive yourself crazy searching for answers. What purpose does that serve when you know so little about him? You saw only what he wanted you to see. There's more to his story, as there is to everyone's. That is why it is critical to take your time in dating and not plan a future with a virtual stranger. Those that try to get you to do so (ie. him) are to be avoided at all costs. I don't know if you have much relationship experience, but I've dated enough in my day to have seen his type a few times. It's never good.

 

Why have you not blocked him? Please don't say it's because you want to try to make this work by suggesting you move slowly this time or something. Forget this clown, he's not who you thought he was.

 

You're right, I know he has already replaced me, his snapchat score has increased by the hundreds since we "broke up". He's already found his new Snapchat/text/fake relationship to distract himself from the emotional void and work he clearly needs to do on himself. I actually feel sorry for him, he opened up to me about some of things that happened in his past. I dated someone like that before too, I know from first hand experience that you can't save or heal someone and you can't make them want to be a better person, and yet I still tried. The honest truth is that I identified with some of the darker parts of him, I myself have shown narcissistic traits (more out of a survival sort of way) in the past, and I think deep down I thought we could slowly heal each other. I've seen it happen before, but I think those cases were exceptions to the rule. Truly, I would have understood and empathized with who he really was if he showed me more, giving us time, and was willing to work towards healing. It's clear how that he did not and will not, at least right now.

 

I'm still adjusting to exactly that, that the person I thought I fell for wasn't real, the fantasy life we were to have wasn't real, his devotion to me wasn't real, our connection wasn't even real. It's difficult to grieve fiction, but here I am trying my best to do just that. I think before I was concentrating on how it might have all been my fault, then I could change and fix it, and we could still live out that fantasy. I'm learning that it was never going to happen like that, you can't fast forward and there's no easy way to have that with someone so quickly. For a minute there, I thought I was in a modern fairytale and it was all moving so fast because it was right. I think if I'm honest, what I really miss is the constant attention (always a good morning text/snap to wake up to), displays of affection, his body, his face. None of these speak to a deep love or commitment. What I have learned through all of this is that one day I do want those things (commitment, children, a family) and that even though I'm wounded and scared, I have a lot of love to give. I have had one significant long term relationship last 7 years (it was more like marriage than a relationship) but I ended that almost 4 years ago, and have only had a string of painful, disappointing "relationships" since. Perhaps I never truly healed from that one, that I had this "perfect" life I had always dreamed, but I believed then that it was the wrong person. If anything, I have a tendency to fast forward relationships, probably to get to the place where that long term one ended. In recognizing this possibility, I've decided to take a break from dating, something I have claimed to do in the past but never really stuck with. I'm realizing that, just like him, I have a lot of trauma to work though, and looking for someone to save or distract me is not only unfair and unrealistic, it only adds to the pain.

 

I'm sure eventually I will block him, it turns out he didn't actually send a message, I just got the notification he was typing something. Not sure if he intentionally tried to get a rise out of me by doing that, or he initially thought of saying something to me and then changed his mind. Either way, it doesn't matter. What I held hope for is not reality, it was a fantasy, and yet I still miss it, and the him I thought I knew. Maybe after significant time has passed, if he does work on his issues and take responsibility for the pain he has caused in his life, I might be open to getting to know who he really is. For now, I'm committed to getting to know myself better, rather than projecting onto relationships and attempting to fix myself through fixing them. It's a very scary place to be after always having the security blanket of an ex, a "guy friend", or someone new (are these my narcissistic supply?) to lean on emotionally, but I know this is what I have to do if I want a healthy life, and eventually, a healthy relationship.

Edited April 27, 2017 by laelithia

[DontBreakEven]

I feel awful for you, having been in almost the exact same situation recently.

 

People make no sense. They don't. I know that I have a tendency to get involved with bullsh*tters, and I eat it up as well, because all I'm looking for is someone who is crazy about me. So when someone presents that, I tend to believe them (as I certainly could never act like I feel one way when I don't).

 

And it's not like they were really crazy about us to begin with and some little thing we did de-railed all of that. Please. You're crazy about this guy. Look at ALL the things he's done. You're still crazy about him. Someone who is crazy about you is just that: Crazy about you. Doesn't matter what you do because everyone has lost their mind and isn't paying attention to that stuff.

 

The truth is, they are the type of people who can either 1) lie about their feelings for their own whatever selfish gains or 2) flip a switch after a few weeks. Both of these qualities fall under narcissism, btw. My exNPD was crazy about me. I was one of the "lucky" ones. Trust me. Didn't even matter. I ended up having to get rid of her because I couldn't take the crazy-making abuse (and this was someone who kissed the ground I walked on and would NEVER leave me, would move to my city to be with me, and basically all the fantasy I ever wanted actually playing out). Wasn't even worth it in the end. Not even close.

 

We can't assess that this guy is narcissistic for real, but we can assess traits. And we can also assess the one thing that is very hard to wrap our heads around when this happens: they weren't crazy about us. I know their actions confused us. But didn't they confuse us the other way around too?

 

I hope you can take comfort in two things: the first being just the reality of accepting that he lied, he wasn't crazy about you, and now you can go find someone who is (and who is also not capable of such deceit). If that isn't a comforting thing to accept, know this: you don't need to envy anyone he is crazy about. That actions/words not matching up behavior? It doesn't EVER go away. Whether they are crazy in love for real or not.

[laelithia]

I feel awful for you, having been in almost the exact same situation recently.

 

People make no sense. They don't. I know that I have a tendency to get involved with bullsh*tters, and I eat it up as well, because all I'm looking for is someone who is crazy about me. So when someone presents that, I tend to believe them (as I certainly could never act like I feel one way when I don't).

 

And it's not like they were really crazy about us to begin with and some little thing we did de-railed all of that. Please. You're crazy about this guy. Look at ALL the things he's done. You're still crazy about him. Someone who is crazy about you is just that: Crazy about you. Doesn't matter what you do because everyone has lost their mind and isn't paying attention to that stuff.

 

The truth is, they are the type of people who can either 1) lie about their feelings for their own whatever selfish gains or 2) flip a switch after a few weeks. Both of these qualities fall under narcissism, btw. My exNPD was crazy about me. I was one of the "lucky" ones. Trust me. Didn't even matter. I ended up having to get rid of her because I couldn't take the crazy-making abuse (and this was someone who kissed the ground I walked on and would NEVER leave me, would move to my city to be with me, and basically all the fantasy I ever wanted actually playing out). Wasn't even worth it in the end. Not even close.

 

We can't assess that this guy is narcissistic for real, but we can assess traits. And we can also assess the one thing that is very hard to wrap our heads around when this happens: they weren't crazy about us. I know their actions confused us. But didn't they confuse us the other way around too?

 

I hope you can take comfort in two things: the first being just the reality of accepting that he lied, he wasn't crazy about you, and now you can go find someone who is (and who is also not capable of such deceit). If that isn't a comforting thing to accept, know this: you don't need to envy anyone he is crazy about. That actions/words not matching up behavior? It doesn't EVER go away. Whether they are crazy in love for real or not.

 

I'm sorry you're going through something similar. It is very difficult!

 

What you wrote about is exactly what I was thinking about this morning. I feel frustrated, hurt, angry, and jealous that I was replaced, but then I somewhat snap out of it and realize that I didn't really lose anything. I never had HIM to begin with, and it seemed like the full picture of him wasn't someone I really wanted anyway. Then of course I start to wonder if maybe he'll change for this new person, or the person after that, when he wouldn't for me. I'm thinking this after 1.5 months, I can only imagine what his ex wife or his ex girlfriend must be thinking after 1.5 years.

 

I think he confused infatuation with love and attraction. I think in the moment, when we were "together", he probably did feel those extreme feelings that he thought were for me, I just don't think he realized that no one will be able to maintain that for him forever. I noticed the same thing happening to me regarding how I felt about him, but I think I am more emotionally mature and recognized that this is a normal part of any relationship and that there is work/compromise involved and it's not ALL about how good the other person always makes you feel all the time. I remember he used to say how happy I made him, that he could hardly sleep because he was so smitten with me (he did begin to look exhausted), that everything felt better when I was in his life. At the time I was so flattered and joyful that was the case, and that I felt the same. Now looking back with clearer eyes, I can see that our "relationship" was all about how I made him feel, not about us at all. Mind you, I believe I was doing the same thing. He made me feel like I was riding a high, and I won't lie, my libido was through the roof thinking about him. I think the difference at the end was I was willing to stick it out past this stage, while he wasn't.

 

Who knows, perhaps he's not a narcissist at all, but I do know that he is behaving selfishly, and as he told me AFTER he made me all the promises in the world to suggest the opposite, he doesn't seem ready for any sort of committed relationship. He later mentioned going back on tinder to "to have fun". Which makes sense, it will be fun to bump from new person to new person, but it's just not for me and not the picture he was painting for over a month. I still can't help but be disappointed that I didn't get to know him enough to know if this is a situational issue of his (after his recent breakup), or longstanding and likely unchanging. That tiny seed of doubt makes me question if I could have been the one to show him that relationships and commitment are worthwhile, but that my baggage/poor behaviour got in the way of illustrating that to him, and that someone else might be able to. It's a very painful roller coaster ride of emotions.

[SpecialJ]

If he's told you he hurt a long list of people before you, there's no doubt that it's a pattern and not just situational to his recent breakup. He won't be better to the next person. How do I know? If he is snap chatting compulsively and dating again already, he's doing the same exact things and hasn't processed or learned anything.

[laelithia]

If he's told you he hurt a long list of people before you, there's no doubt that it's a pattern and not just situational to his recent breakup. He won't be better to the next person. How do I know? If he is snap chatting compulsively and dating again already, he's doing the same exact things and hasn't processed or learned anything.

 

You're totally right. It's interesting that one of the last things he said to me the he was "trying to take things slow, trying not repeat old patterns", yet here he is doing the exact same things. I guess talk really is cheap. I'm soooo tempted to call him out on it, but I guess to what end. Or should I?!

 

Sigh. I really miss my fantasy boyfriend, he was so much better than this one.

Edited April 27, 2017 by laelithia

[DontBreakEven]

You're totally right. It's interesting that one of the last things he said to me the he was "trying to take things slow, trying not repeat old patterns", yet here he is doing the exact same things. I guess talk really is cheap. I'm soooo tempted to call him out on it, but I guess to what end. Or should I?!

 

Sigh. I really miss my fantasy boyfriend, he was so much better than this one.

 

hahahaha. mine "can't give her all to anyone right now". Doesn't want to "half a** it and needs to take care of her sh*t before she gets into anything".

 

A week later she's in a new thing. Please.

[SpecialJ]

Don't call him out. It's just an excuse to reach out and will fall on deaf ears, except for when he turns it back around on you in some manipulative way. #ignore

[laelithia]

hahahaha. mine "can't give her all to anyone right now". Doesn't want to "half a** it and needs to take care of her sh*t before she gets into anything".

 

A week later she's in a new thing. Please.

 

That is really annoying. Mine didn't even wait a week, in fact he never really did end things at all, just moved on to the next and I had to figure it out. I'm guessing I know the answer, but what do you think they'd say/do if we called them out on it?

[laelithia]

Don't call him out. It's just an excuse to reach out and will fall on deaf ears, except for when he turns it back around on you in some manipulative way. #ignore

 

Alas, I believe you are right. I feel like it might make me feel a bit better to point out the obvious and that I don't see him as this perfect being anymore, but maybe that's just stopping to a level I don't really need to. I'm sure he would read and ignore it, but I feel there would be some satisfaction in him knowing I'm right.

[DontBreakEven]

That is really annoying. Mine didn't even wait a week, in fact he never really did end things at all, just moved on to the next and I had to figure it out. I'm guessing I know the answer, but what do you think they'd say/do if we called them out on it?

 

I already did. Mine went NC 6 weeks ago when she told me all that. She said she was catching feelings but she couldn't do that at the moment because she needed to tie up loose ends from the past. She couldn't give her all to anyone and was a mess. So she told me she wanted to let it go "for now". So we did. Like 4 days later it was fairly obvious she was dating someone. The other day (6 weeks later) she finally contacted me asking for friendship - she missed talking to me. So, I let her call me. Where I proceeded to tell her than I'm not an idiot, and is she dating someone? She said that yes she's talking to someone. So, called her out and she just said yep. I was so flustered on the phone that I didn't manage to ask why she told me then that she couldn't be dating anyone right now? Another reason I didn't ask was because I just felt like a giant idiot. Like duh. It was a lie. And like duh. All of the sh*t she said to me before were lines. Calling her out did nothing. She managed to somehow twist it all anyway. And frankly I just got tired of talking about it, because all we kept doing was basically pointing out that I was into her more than she was into me (regardless of anything she ever said before), and at some point I just surrendered to it and accepted it all.

[laelithia]

I already did. Mine went NC 6 weeks ago when she told me all that. She said she was catching feelings but she couldn't do that at the moment because she needed to tie up loose ends from the past. She couldn't give her all to anyone and was a mess. So she told me she wanted to let it go "for now". So we did. Like 4 days later it was fairly obvious she was dating someone. The other day (6 weeks later) she finally contacted me asking for friendship - she missed talking to me. So, I let her call me. Where I proceeded to tell her than I'm not an idiot, and is she dating someone? She said that yes she's talking to someone. So, called her out and she just said yep. I was so flustered on the phone that I didn't manage to ask why she told me then that she couldn't be dating anyone right now? Another reason I didn't ask was because I just felt like a giant idiot. Like duh. It was a lie. And like duh. All of the sh*t she said to me before were lines. Calling her out did nothing. She managed to somehow twist it all anyway. And frankly I just got tired of talking about it, because all we kept doing was basically pointing out that I was into her more than she was into me (regardless of anything she ever said before), and at some point I just surrendered to it and accepted it all.

 

That's cold. I'm so sorry you had to go through that awful conversation. It's definitely making me think twice about doing the same. In fact, I have decided I will not give him the satisfaction. Not out of spite, but purely so he has a chance to figure it out on his own to make a change. I truly do feel sorry for him, and anyone acting the way they did. They are suffering, too.

 

One thing that has helped me through all of this confusing, over analyzing, tortuous mess is something I read. It said that what we are really missing from that other person, what we feel they hold the key to, was already within us. A little cheesy, but I really feel it's true. I have associated the wonderous feeling of love with all these unavailable people I have dated in the past, but really they didn't add much at all, and it was me and my life that the love came from. The only accomplishment they had was taking away from it, not adding and definitely not creating it. I hope that provides some comfort to you, that even though it doesn't feel that way now, we didn't need them before, and we don't need them now to lead happy, healthy, beautiful lives.

Edited April 28, 2017 by laelithia

[laelithia]

I was thinking today, I wonder why we feel we need some sort of answer to truly move on? When I was thinking about this to myself, if I was able to choose between having this person back or having a complete and full explanation as to what truly happened (ex. He's a narcissist/he's emotionally unavailable/some random thing I did turned him off forever), I would choose the latter. I've never had a breakup occur before where I was completely blindsided and confused before.

 

I wonder if he even has this answer, or full explanation of what actually happened. I have a feeling, as most of you have alluded to, it has to do with deficits in his character, but for some reason I'm yearning to hear it from the horse's mouth. I remember him telling me that his ex had reached out to him with a few long emails asking for the same thing, closure and an explanation I suppose, and he said he hadn't responded at all and felt guilty about it. Although days later he told me he lent her money out of guilt for cheating on her. Go figure, I guess this one just isn't going to be the one to give me the answers I'm seeking.

[SpecialJ]

Very good! That means he already told you you don't need to waste time writing to ask -- he won't answer you just like he didn't answer her.

 

I also think you have your answer. This is his pattern, no matter who the partner. His exes feel the same way after.

 

My ex didn't cheat, but felt so guilty for breaking up with me that he gave me a present when he next saw me. He didn't describe it that way, but it is definitely why. Guess it is what unstable guys do to compensate...

[laelithia]

Very good! That means he already told you you don't need to waste time writing to ask -- he won't answer you just like he didn't answer her.

 

I also think you have your answer. This is his pattern, no matter who the partner. His exes feel the same way after.

 

My ex didn't cheat, but felt so guilty for breaking up with me that he gave me a present when he next saw me. He didn't describe it that way, but it is definitely why. Guess it is what unstable guys do to compensate...

 

You're totally right. I win the gullible woman of the year award because he told me (vaguely, but still) that he had a past of hurting exes but he said he had learned and would never do that to me, and I bought it!

 

I think that's exactly what they do, somehow they think it'll make up for the awful, selfish things they've done. I should have known when he spent a bunch of money on me for dates and a birthday present. I'm sure somehow he thinks it now justifies all that he's done.

[SpecialJ]

It doesn't mean you're gullible. You may not have known previously what to look for. You're just learning what key hints to pay attention to through experience

[SpecialJ]

Btw, I was the partial exception for the (likely) covert narcissist in my life. He ended things with me in person instead of ghosting, which he described as his MO (there was an extenuating need for this different treatment of me, though). So it can happen. However, he said that if we continued on, he'd treat me exactly the same as everyone else-- a mean discard after 1-2 more months. In retrospect, it was pretty interesting for someone to be so self aware but so unwilling to do the work to break his cycle!

[laelithia]

Btw, I was the partial exception for the (likely) covert narcissist in my life. He ended things with me in person instead of ghosting, which he described as his MO (there was an extenuating need for this different treatment of me, though). So it can happen. However, he said that if we continued on, he'd treat me exactly the same as everyone else-- a mean discard after 1-2 more months. In retrospect, it was pretty interesting for someone to be so self aware but so unwilling to do the work to break his cycle!

 

I totally get what you mean. They know what they're doing wrong, but they either have no desire or resolve (or maybe both!) to make it happen. That being said, I feel slightly hypocritical. I was looking for some documents for my taxes and came across a letter I wrote to an ex years ago. It shocked me how similar that situation was with what I'm dealing with now... if my last relationship had gone on any longer, I could have literally used the same letter word for word.

 

I seem to have a knack for attracting and being attracted to emotionally unavailable men. These ones are so sneaky though, because they promise the world and you think maybe, just maybe, if we could overcome whatever obstacle is in the way, we would be perfect for one another. Such faulty thinking.

[laelithia]

Well, I just got another dose of humble pie today. I should have, as you all suggested, blocked him but I didn't. Anyway, he sent me a message saying that he didn't think he could be my date to a wedding we were going to go to next month (no sh*t, Sherlock) because he was on a date last night and he really liked this girl.

 

I don't care about this person anymore romantically, I don't think he's a good match for me. But at the same time, I have that nagging insecure voice saying "you messed up, you couldn't make it work with him, but this girl can meaning somehow she's better than you". I know enough about negative thoughts like this and what they can do to your mood and self esteem, but I still can't seem to shake it with him, and with my exes in the past who are now in relationships.

[Ronnys93]

Well, I just got another dose of humble pie today. I should have, as you all suggested, blocked him but I didn't. Anyway, he sent me a message saying that he didn't think he could be my date to a wedding we were going to go to next month (no sh*t, Sherlock) because he was on a date last night and he really liked this girl.

 

I don't care about this person anymore romantically, I don't think he's a good match for me. But at the same time, I have that nagging insecure voice saying "you messed up, you couldn't make it work with him, but this girl can meaning somehow she's better than you". I know enough about negative thoughts like this and what they can do to your mood and self esteem, but I still can't seem to shake it with him, and with my exes in the past who are now in relationships.

 

Trust me when I say, you need to talk back to that insecure voice and tell her to shut the hell up and know her place. She's stronger than she thinks You will be fine, I know your mood/self esteem are a bit sunk at the moment but they will rise. Focus on your self improvement and do block him everywhere.

[SpecialJ]

He really likes her for a month or two. Then he finds the next one he likes, then the next, and never does the work he'd have to do on himself to address his issues. Even if he dates them for longer, the issues will still rear their head in some way that probably sucks for whoever he is with. #ignore

[laelithia]

Update:

 

I think I really should feel better about this whole thing than I do. Last week (against all recommendations!) I spoke to him on the phone. I know myself, and I simply just could not let this go without some sort of explanation from him. So, after the last few weeks of sneakingly "befriending" him with LC, I asked him to call me when he was free one night.

 

Long story short, he did, and was perhaps too honest with me. He admitted at the beggining of the call that he had smoked some weed and had some beers, and that he felt comfortable being honest with me. In that chilling conversation (which I kept upbeat and nonjudemental, solely so I could gain more information), he admitted a darker side of himself. He told me how since he was 14 he has been using the internet to "sexualize" and flirt with girls. He told me it's not even about the sex, that he's happy to take care of himself as long as he's able to flirt with girls online. He told me how he's been to sex addicts anonymous and therapy, how he learned that this habit is a coping mechanism for which he "feels bad about and is trying to fix". He told me that in between his break up and meeting me (2 weeks) he had done this to 2 other women, and since me (2.5 weeks ago) there has been 2 other women, and he's "working on the third". He told me this new woman is exotic too, and that she's been "so good" by not having sex with him early and that he really wants to take things slow and not mess it up with her. I even asked what was special about her over me (I know, I know, but I've already gone this far down the rabbit hole...) and he said "nothing, she's just different. And I seem to always go from girl to girl". He told me how the girl right after me accused him of being a con artist, and how he didn't say it to her, but she was right. He said he was certain he'd be classified as a "predator", that he was a "master manipulator", and when I asked if he was a pathological liar, he said he was. At this point, all I could do was laugh at the absurdity of what he was saying and admitting to. He seemed to show some remorse, saying he had hurt so many people and in doing so, he has also hurt himself. He said his behaviour was "sick, like borderline sicko". He said he's done this so long, so many times, he knows what to say to get what he wants. I never asked him if this is what he did to me, I'm sure the answer is clear, but now I wish I had. Instead, earlier in the call I asked him what happened that he changed his mind with me, and all he could say was that after spending a few weekends together, he realized that a relationship with me wasn't what he wanted. But he could not say why, only that "we're different, with all we have going on and all the complexities". This again was a week or so after he was saying I was the woman of his dreams and texting/calling all day long. The scariest part of the phone call was him actually saying he truly wants to find "the one", and that he's certain once he does, he'll stop all this. But in the meantime he's content to do what he's doing, because at least he knows now "when to pull the plug" (i.e. Before having sex) to minimize how much he hurts someone. There's more he said in this call, but I was so disturbed I could hardly focus. He sounded so different on the phone than he had so many times before, it was heartbreaking to hear him say these things to me, to admit to being with so many women since me, to hear in his voice that he holds no affection to me. I simply could not believe this was the same human I was talking to all those weeks before.

 

I know this is all insane. I KNOW I should count my lucky stars it's over with him, but there is a side of me that despite this logic, cannot seem to let go. I'm consumed by this, constantly playing the past in my head, trying to understand. I don't think I actually want this person back, he actually scares me now after what he admitted to me. It's like I'm fighting with reality or something, like somehow I can make things go back, before he did all this, before he was all this. I truly feel like part of me is losing my mind. I can't think of ever being as attracted to anyone as I was to him, and that in itself is a terrifying thought because if what he told me is true, I'm attracted to monsters. I'm plagued with the obsession of wanting to see him, or wanting to see with my two eyes who he really is, of proving to myself that he isn't who I thought he was.

 

To be honest, at the point, I don't even understand my own feelings. I just know I have this intense yearning and emptiness inside, almost like he stole a piece of me that I want to take back. I have never fallen for someone that intensely, that vulnerably before, and to have this happen after it all, I feel I can't even trust myself, relationships, or men at all. I really feel wrecked over an ordeal that truly never should have happened.