Hi. I'm new here.

[Smileyfoot]

I'm not even really sure what I want. I guess I just need to talk. Lord knows she's had enough of talking. But I need to.

 

So, I'm forty-one and she's thirty-five. We met and started dating about sixteen years ago. We got married about eight years ago. We have three children (2, 6, 11) together and I have a daughter (20) from a previous relationship.

 

About twelve years ago she and I attended a friend's wedding. After the wedding everyone planned on going to a local bar to celebrate, but I couldn't go because my daughter was staying over that night, but I was fine with her going without me. It was the bride and groom, my girlfriend (Rachael), her best friend Nikki and the guy Nikki was seeing, Miguel. I must stress that as of this time there was no running dialogue between us about any kinds of problems between us or unhappiness on her part. That very day we discussed wedding dresses.

 

Neither Miguel nor Nikki drove at that time and it was understood that my wife would have to take them both home. Unfortunately one lived an hour West of us and the other lived an hour East of us, so it would be a long night. She decided to take Nikki home first, and then take Miguel home... so she said when she called.

 

So I sat home waiting for her. And please understand, at this time I was not jealous or suspicious of her about anything. I had no fears about anything... until I got this knot in my gut out of nowhere. And she called me again to let me know they got caught up talking at Nikki's house and she would be later than she expected. I still had no specific fears about anything, but I was suddenly feeling horrible. Almost sick to my stomach and shaking. I felt like something bad was happening.

 

So, hours later she finally came home and we went to bed. I told her about my uneasy feeling and nothing was said about it.

 

A day or two later we had sex. This will be a big part of the story later, but suffice for now to say I'm not a sexual person. I have a problem and I can go a long long time without feeling any need for sex, and it often feels like a chore for me. She wanted to do it, so I did my duty the best I could... and then I kissed her good-night and left the room.

 

Then a few days later I was out with a friend and she called me and told me she needed to talk to me when I got home, and the feeling came back. And when I said I love you, she wouldn't say it back. So I rushed home with the worst feeling. When I got there she explained that she'd decided to leave me. I asked her why and she said she couldn't explain it. I asked her if there was someone else and she just looked at her feet guiltily. I actually went through two or three different names before I got back to Miguel, he was so far from my mind as a suspect.

 

Her story went that on their way home they stopped and talked for a long time about how unhappy she was with our relationship because of the lack of sex. He made it clear to her that he'd kill to be in my shoes and that I was a fool. Then when I left her alone after sex a few days later, she texted with him some more and together they decided that she would tell me she wanted to leave.

 

But of course I went completely insane and started grilling her with questions. Eventually the story changed, and now at the end instead of just dropping him off on that first night, she went inside with him and they briefly kissed.

 

But then I called him at some point and talked to him directly, and apparently they'd failed to line up their stories. His description was that they didn't ****, but they did pretty much else. I later managed to get her to confirm that as well.

 

Ultimately, by the time all the details came out... it started in the bar, pretty much right under Nikki's nose. Fondling of breasts and genitals under the table. Then after dropping Nikki off, on the way home she called me to tell me she was late specifically to make time to stop in a dark parking lot for more making out including genital manipulation in both directions, and then back at his place even more making out. She maintains to this day that there was no actual sex, though. Not even oral.

 

Anyway... meanwhile, she did end up leaving and was gone for a day and a night, not answering the phone. Not telling me where she was. I was a wreck. In tears the whole time. Couldn't sleep a wink. Couldn't eat.

 

Eventually she did come back home, and eventually with enough crying and begging I did manage to talk her into staying.

 

We spent about a year of me being the biggest controlling possessive ******* alive, but to her credit... she handled it like a champ, mostly. She let me vent and let loose on her over and over again for what seemed like forever. But eventually it started to get better. I got better about wanting to have sex.... for a while... but that was the competitiveness in me. I think I wanted to prove to her and myself that I was man enough for her.

 

We had our first child together the following year. We'd always planned on having children but she always insisted that it couldn't be until after marriage. I think she changed her mind about that just to prove that she was truly devoted to me. A couple of years later we got married. By then there was virtually no trace of what had happened. I was back to fully trusting her, and she was back to giving me no reason to ever doubt her loyalty. We had another child five or six years later, and then the last one a few years after that. The youngest will be three next month.

 

It's been smooth sailing now for about twelve years... although I admit that I've slipped back into my neglectful ways. I love her and I show her that I love her, and I tell her that I love her. I kiss her and hug her and cuddle with her on the couch, but the actual sex... I hate to say it, it just wasn't worth the bother to me. And I know I'm wrong for that.

 

Anyway... so about two weeks ago we had sex and, as usual, once I actually get myself up of my ass to do it, I actually like it a lot. Somehow I just never seem to remember that until I'm actually doing it. Anyway... I knew I had been doing a bad job of keeping up my end in the bedroom. Bad? Horrible. I admit it. So after we finished I said, "You know? I think we need to make a point of doing this more often. I'm resolving right now to make sure this happens at least once a week from now on". And she seemed thrilled.

 

So now, fast forward to a week later. We're just sitting in the living room talking about stuff. And she jokingly suggests, "Maybe you should just let me take a lover on the side", and right away a red flag went up... and I ask, "Why? Do you have someone in mind" and she does the guilty look at the floor thing again. So now my chemicals are bubbling and I start grilling her. I finally get her to admit that she's got what she calls a "flirtationship" with someone at her job. Nothing more than words and all playful... but she is very attracted to the guy. I, in my heightened state of alert, asked her if she could please put an end to it, and she said she would. Not long after that she went up to bed while I stayed downstairs to wait for the kids to fall asleep.

 

And then I got the gut wrenching thing again, out of nowhere. I seriously thought the issue had been resolved, and it wasn't even that big a deal... but suddenly I just felt like something really bad was happening. So I struggled through it and it eased up. Finally the kids went to bed and I made my way upstairs to her. And I kept my promise. We had sex for the second time in the span of a week. Better than we'd done in years. I was trying. I knew I wasn't doing the right thing and I was trying to fix it, and succeeding as of that time.

 

After we finished and were lying there together in each others arms, I don't know what made me start asking questions again... but I asked her if she was totally sure nothing physical had happened, and then she said, "Well, we hugged a few times. Like... longer than normal hugs". And of course that fanned the flames. I asked if they'd communicated or seen each other outside of work and she said no. Somewhere along the line she made it clear she genuinely did want him sexually, though... and she knew he wanted her too. I asked how she knows that he wants that... what was said exactly? She then told me that during work there were two incidents in one day in which they made out heavily. One time he grabbed her and picked her up and pretty much dry-humped her against a wall, and the other time he pulled out his penis and jammed his hand in her pants and they briefly masturbated each other. Both incidents were short and neither led to anyone coming. I also learned that when she went up to bed that night, and I got the knot in my gut, that she'd actually gone upstairs to text with him for a while.

 

By now my ears are ringing and my eyes feel like they're about to burst from my head. I'm losing it. This conversation was taking place in the early AM hours of Sunday, and these incidents occurred at her work the previous Friday. Pretty much the previous day since it was still Saturday night to us.

 

I would also later learn that the previous week she met him in person during his break at his other job. She was out at one of my shows (I play in a band) and left halfway through our set because, she claimed at the time, she was sleepy, but she'd actually been texting with him that whole day and evening and left in order to go see him where they would have their first kiss. It was earlier that day when they made it clear to each other that they were both interested in progressing beyond the flirtationship.

 

So now I'm back where I was twelve years ago. This time the confession did not include the announcement that she was leaving me, so that's good... I guess. But she did make it clear to me that this wasn't strictly about sex. She really likes the guy... and at first she was pretty clear about the fact that, confession or not, she still did want him... although she wanted me, and our family, more.

 

Now, after having spent the last four days interrogating her and screaming at her and digging every awful detail out of her, I think I've managed to convince her that he was playing her. He's got four kids to four women, and he's currently still with one of them. How that didn't occur to her in the first place I will never understand.

 

Actually... I don't think I'll ever understand any of it.

 

I want to think it was about sex. He's an attractive and charming guy and he made her feel beautiful and desired in a way that I'd been failing to do. But I wasn't failing anymore... That first kiss happened the day before I told her I would be working to do better. If all she wanted was more from me, why couldn't she at least give me a chance to follow through on my promise? She didn't force it out of me. It was my idea. Also, I'd posted this thing on Facebook.... this long rambling thing about how amazing my wife is, and how long we've been together and how much I love her... and she even showed it to him and told him it made her feel bad about what was going on... and it was the very next day that they were finger ****ing like animals.

 

But she's not trying to blame it on me. She's not saying it's about the lack of sex. I mean... she is, kind of... but she's not saying I made her do it. Mostly she says she's confused and she doesn't know why it happened.

 

So now we're doing it every night. When I'm finished typing this I plan to go up and do it for the fifth day in a row. And I don't hate doing it... but I can't say I'm doing it for the right reasons, and I can't say that I won't slide back to where I was before. Right now it's mainly just weak pathetic me doing whatever she needs me to do out of fear of her hurting me again... and part of it is me wanting to dominate and prove to her that I can be all the man she could ever need... part of it anger. I can't hit her... but sometimes the sex kind of feels the same as that.

 

And now all the questions have been answered. I know all the details... at least according to her. She says she still loves me and now has no desire to leave. Even if I could bring myself to just let her go and have her way with him but still come back home, a lover on the side... she says she doesn't want that. But I don't know if she's just trying to spare my feelings.

 

 

I know a woman needs to feel desired... and I know that normal people need (or feel like they need) sex a lot more than I do. I know the part I played in this. I refuse to blame myself, but I can accept that I created an environment that made infidelity more tempting than it needed to be... but I don't think I'm the only one with a problem. She has a problem when sex is such an overpowering urge that she's willing to do what she almost did to our family. And not even just to me... but to our kids.

 

But still... now I'm scouring self-help websites about how to "fix" my libido so I too can be obsessed with sex to the point where I can't behave like a civilized human being without it. I'm even going to the doctor to have my testosterone levels checked. That's what all the websites say. It's the person who doesn't think sex is all that big a deal who is the problem... and that's me. I think it's all a load of crap, but I'll do what I have to do to save my marriage, and to save myself from going through this again.

 

But really... why couldn't she just back off and give me a chance to do the thing she wanted me to do, that I'd already promised to do? Why couldn't she have pulled me to the side and said, "I'm having feelings and urges that I'm having a hard time controlling and I think it might because I'm not getting enough sex"? Just like last time... I knew things weren't perfect, and I knew she wanted something she wasn't getting... but I thought we were mostly okay. Nowhere near "I need to get sex somewhere else".

 

 

 

Anyway. I just needed to get it off my chest. I'm too ashamed to talk to people in our actual real lives about it.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Smileyfoot

[Sparta]

OP you need to come to terms that your wife has horrible boundary issues With the opposite sex. Her cheating really does not have anything to do with you or the lack of sex from you. but it does weigh heavily on someone with a higher sex drive. As for her cheating there is no excuse for her Choice that she made. It is a character flaw in her. She obviously does not share your morals and values. So she has not been fully honest with you.? So please for your sake, this is the time that you need to be honest with yourself.! Adults don't meet up to kiss make out and finger each other's privates. they have sex sorry read other thread on the infidelity forums always claim that they didn't have sex they just kissed and made out 99% of the time sorry.! She has had sex a lot more than you think or know. I don't care what she says, remember Cheater's lie. I hope you understand that.? So let's get this straight she had sex a lot more than you want to believe. She's just a very selfish person. She just wants strange d!ck every once in a while just like a lot of other self-centered and inconsiderate people that don't care about their spouses.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Sparta
Spelling whatever else

[Overtaxed]

First off, so sorry for your situation, I can't imagine what you're going through right now. Your wife is displaying extreme boundary issues, and, if you choose to stay together, really needs to get into IC as soon as possible. The fact that this is a pattern is very damaging, especially over that amount of time.

 

Now, the sex thing, a few observations and questions:

 

I want to think it was about sex. He's an attractive and charming guy and he made her feel beautiful and desired in a way that I'd been failing to do. But I wasn't failing anymore... That first kiss happened the day before I told her I would be working to do better.

 

First off, you need to realize, cheaters are looking for MORE, not in lieu of. My WW and I had sex quite often, and she is/was low desire (compared to me), she still had sex with another man. It's almost never all about the sex for women, it's something else they are missing; but, in your case, I would hazard a guess that sex was on the list of things she wanted from an A (which is not all that common, typically women are looking for emotional connections, men for sex). So the fact that you had sex with her that week, or even that day, doesn't really figure into her having sex or talking with her AP; it was just more, no matter what you did, she'd always want more.

 

But still... now I'm scouring self-help websites about how to "fix" my libido so I too can be obsessed with sex to the point where I can't behave like a civilized human being without it. I'm even going to the doctor to have my testosterone levels checked. That's what all the websites say. It's the person who doesn't think sex is all that big a deal who is the problem... and that's me. I think it's all a load of crap, but I'll do what I have to do to save my marriage, and to save myself from going through this again.

 

I'm going to say this gently, because I know you're hurting, but you have a negative (or at least strange) view of sex. You should want to fix your libido for you, not having a sexual relationship with your wife (or not often) is robbing you both of that experience. It's not about becoming an "animal" who can't live with out, it's about becoming someone who truly desires that part of a relationship and enjoys that time with your spouse.

 

And yes, the "low desire" partner typically does have the problem in the relationship, however, the high desire partner is the one who has to deal with that problem. I say this all the time, but I'll repeat it here, sex is the ONLY thing that you pledge fidelity for on your wedding day. You can have friends you share your secrets with (same sex, please), you can have emotional connections with other people. You can share your income, you can hire people to do the household tasks. All of if, every other thing that a man/woman expects from their partner in a marriage can be done by other people or outside of the marriage. Except for sex. That's the only thing that's held unique/special and private about a marriage, and, because of that, you HAVE TO fix this part of your relationship. Not doing so sentences your both to a life that's less full than you could otherwise have, and, in many cases, it happens for no particular reason.

 

There is something wrong, in many cases, when a man isn't desirous of sex. It could, in fact, be your testosterone levels. It could be another hormone out of whack. It could be your fitness level. It could be your wife's appearance. It could be your experiences as a child. It could be your religious upbringing. Could be a million different things. But, end of the day, it is normal for a man to want to have sex, to think about sex a lot, and to work really hard to get sex.

 

I wish you the best of luck, and please let us know as you start to decide what to do. This is NOT your fault. If you decide to work on your sex drive, do it for you, not for her. She cheated because of her, not because of you.

[WilyWill]

My guess is that you've only seen the tip of the iceberg. For all the cheating you've been able to discover, there's probably quite a bit more that you haven't discovered.

 

Yes, she needs to be desired, but she handled this in completely the wrong way. No decent woman would do this to the father of her children, especially after he's made good-faith efforts to meet her needs.

 

Definitely have your T levels checked. But you might want to consider finding someone who is sexually compatible with you in the long run, or at least someone who can give you the honesty and respect you deserve.

[Bryanp]

You deserve so much better than this. It is sad that you don't see this.

She has been playing you for a fool for a long time.

She has shown that she has no respect for you or your marriage.

 

If you don't respect yourself then who will?

[BluesPower]

Buddy, I am sorry...

 

But let's be real. You know that you are not taking care of things in the bedroom. That has to stop, whatever the reason is. Low T, emotional issues.

 

It is not way excuses her cheating but really, what did you expect?

 

Begging and pleading, who does that?

 

Women, no woman, respects a begging pleading man, ever.

 

There is really no reason for your low sex drive at your age.

 

But there are some things that you need to know. She is completely lying to you about a ton of stuff. She is and has been cheating a lot on you.

 

There is no excuse for this on her part. But you do need to realize what you are dealing with here.

 

I am not sure where this is going as far as your marriage. And, I am not trying to bash you in any way.

 

Your wife is in her sexual prime and is you don't take care of here someone else will.

 

The problem is can you live with that. If not you need to step up your game and not just sexually. You need to step it up in a variety of areas.

 

You need to stop being a weak man with her. I know that hurts some, but dude it is the truth...

[Smileyfoot]

Thanks for reading and replying, guys.

 

I know I have an unusual view of sex. I know that I agreed to marry her knowing what her needs were and given that I made her vow to only do it with me I should at least make an effort to provide it to her as often as she desires it. I still don't think I'm unhealthy. I do enjoy sex. for me it's just not some uncontrollable urge that must be satisfied at any cost. I don't have some some inalienable right to x-amount of sex every x-amount of days, and a right to get it elsewhere if I don't. The amount of sex she wants to have is her choice and I only have a right to sex if she's willing and able to provide it. If she were injured in some way that prevented her from giving me sex, she would not become useless to me as a wife. That wouldn't be anywhere even close to a reason for me to consider leaving her. She's already given me children. Everything else is just a fun bonus. I understand that my view isn't the common view, and that I am the one who needs to change, but I honestly believe that if my view were the common view, there'd be far fewer problems in this world. This forum would be a lot less active, for one. And for me it doesn't come with adverse side-effects. Nothing about my life changes when I'm having more sex except that I'm having more sex. And more showers. I don't go around the next day floating on some cloud of happiness. I don't feel some overall satisfaction in my life that I don't feel otherwise. When I go without, I don't get shaky or lose my temper or even get in a bad mood. For me sex feels great, when I'm having sex, but it doesn't have anything to do with anything outside of the bedroom. It's not different from eating ice cream. I like eating ice cream. I try to do it every once in a while, but when I'm not eating ice cream I don't define myself as an ice-cream deprived person. My level of ice cream consumption does not affect my day to day life. Sometimes I say to myself, "I could go for some ice cream. I think I'll have some later" and sometimes I say "I could go for some sex. I think I'll have some later". If I never do either again, my life will not change other than that I might miss that occasional urge. And with ice cream, I can't watch a video on the internet and just as easily (more easily in fact) take care of that urge on my own.

 

Yes. I do understand that there's a contradiction in my thought process. If sex is a purely physical pleasure, and a lack of sex does not equate to a lack of love, how then can her wanting or having sex with someone else be a personal betrayal to me and our relationship? If I can feel like she doesn't have some fundamental right to sex, how can I feel like it's my fundamental right for her to only have sex with me? When the topic is how often I have sex with her, I feel like she makes too big a deal of sex; that it doesn't matter, but when the topic is her having sex with someone else sex is the most important thing in the world.

 

 

As far as whether or not she actually did have sex either or both times, or that there were more times that she never told me about... it terrifies me to the core to even think about it. And part of me still believes you're right. The only thing that keeps me hanging on is the way it was for us when we got together. For weeks after we began dating and had established ourselves as exclusive, she would not let me sleep with her. I wanted desperately to, but she wouldn't allow it. She wasn't ready yet. We did all manner of other things, but she would not allow my penis inside of her.

 

See, I think she's hung up on the connection between sex and relationships. She doesn't like the idea of casual sex. I think that in both cases she ran into someone she wanted to have sex with, but that confused her and she took it to mean she must also want to be in a relationship with them, which means that for her a desire to sleep with someone else is always translated into a desire to leave me to start a new relationship with the person she wants to sleep with, which starts off with lots of sexual stuff, but holding off on the actual sex until some time later. It's the only way she can make sense of it.

 

In the second case, over time as we talked about it, I pointed out that nowhere in any of the conversations they had (I made her tell me everything she could remember) did the other guy appear to talk about actually leaving his girlfriend. She seemed to feel like underneath everything that was going on, there was the presumption that if they continued forward it would mean both of them eventually leaving their current people in order to be together, but when I pointed out that he might not have had that same presumption, she seemed sad... disappointed. Even though she had already resolved to break it off and stay with me, she was still disappointed to realize that this guy might've only been interested in a strictly sexual relationship. The fact that I've been able to convince her that there's a good chance this guy was "playing" her has been a saving grace for me; the thing that was able to finally make me feel like her staying with me wasn't keeping her from something she actually still wanted. Because I think she wanted the sex, but only if it came along with a relationship.

 

 

Also, some final details about the second situation that I never added:

 

When they had the whole thing going on, they were doing all of their communication outside work over Facebook Messenger, and she would just delete all their conversations. Because of his relationship and his girlfriend who was more vigilant and jealous than I am (WAS!), their communications always had to start with him. If Rachael messaged him first, there was a chance that his girlfriend would see it first and get him in trouble.

 

When it all came out, her plan was to wait until the next time he messaged her and then break it off. But because all of this was happening on Facebook I was able to easily figure out who he was... so I sent him a message myself. Here's what I said to him:

 

"Hi Chris. My wife and I had a long talk last night about what's been going on between the two of you. As far as I can tell she and I have now worked out whatever problems we had that led to this situation and have agreed to move forward with our marriage and our family. I love my wife dearly and I was positively devastated by her confession last night. You and she tore my heart to pieces and nearly did the same to my family. My children. I won't sleep right for months, and I won't stop seeing pictures of you two in my head for years. I can't say I'm not angry with you, or with her. I am furious. I'm half out of my mind right now. I was tempted to message your girlfriend also, but I decided not to, thanks in part to my wife asking me not to. I would rather if we could just move forward from here with a clean start. Maybe while I'm trying to fix the damage you caused to my relationship, you could use this opportunity to set things right with your own. Whatever you decide, just please stay away from my wife.

 

Respect me from here on out, and I can work to forget this whole thing and I won't feel the need to discuss this situation with anyone else."

 

I watched the message all day the next day to see exactly the moment he read it. Meanwhile my wife was at work and was expecting him to message her at some point. I waited anxiously for news of how the breakup went down. She promised me screenshots of the conversation. But when her first break came around, he had not messaged her... and he had also not seen my message yet. Then her second break came around and there was still nothing. Finally about an hour before she was due to get off work, the little chat window on Facebook indicated that he saw my message, but no reply. Then she got off work and still no reply, but sometime the following day he unfriended her without saying anything to her. This seemed to hurt her quite a bit and perhaps change her view of him, I think, based on the assumption that he saw my message and just casually dropped her without a word. Personally, I think it's more likely that I made him feel ****ty about himself and now he just doesn't know what he's supposed to do or say. He knows how I feel but has no idea about how she feels. Or maybe he knows I'll now be monitoring her communications and is just waiting for the next time he sees her at work to get a feel for whether or not she and I are truly on the same page about the whole thing. As far as he's concerned, maybe she just told me she would end it, but really doesn't plan to.

 

Or... perhaps it was the girlfriend who got my message first and he's just been dodging coffee cups this whole time. That's what I'm hoping for, personally. Maybe his life has been shattered because of this too.

 

 

Anyway. We've now agreed to marriage counseling, and she's agreed to seek individual help as well. She seems to acknowledge that she has a problem. She can't explain why she did what she did. She does make sure to include the lack of sex as a contributing factor, but she doesn't try to claim that it forced her to do anything. She knows she's the one who is ultimately responsible for what happened. She doesn't try to defend what she did.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Smileyfoot

[William]

As a reminder, moderation suggests being prudent in the sharing of any personally identifiable information. Approving a moderated post brought me here so content has been added. Thanks and please continue!

[KimJ1234]

 

I say this all the time, but I'll repeat it here, sex is the ONLY thing that you pledge fidelity for on your wedding day. You can have friends you share your secrets with (same sex, please), you can have emotional connections with other people. You can share your income, you can hire people to do the household tasks. All of if, every other thing that a man/woman expects from their partner in a marriage can be done by other people or outside of the marriage. Except for sex. That's the only thing that's held unique/special and private about a marriage

 

I dont agree. There's an emotional bond between my husband and I that we share with no one else. If he shared this bond with someone else I'd be devastated...the same as a physical affair. In fact IMO an emotional affair is worse...I don't know if I could stay in a marriage knowing he loved someone else.

[Smileyfoot]

Buddy, I am sorry...

 

But let's be real. You know that you are not taking care of things in the bedroom. That has to stop, whatever the reason is. Low T, emotional issues.

 

It is not way excuses her cheating but really, what did you expect?

 

Begging and pleading, who does that?

 

Women, no woman, respects a begging pleading man, ever.

 

There is really no reason for your low sex drive at your age.

 

But there are some things that you need to know. She is completely lying to you about a ton of stuff. She is and has been cheating a lot on you.

 

There is no excuse for this on her part. But you do need to realize what you are dealing with here.

 

I am not sure where this is going as far as your marriage. And, I am not trying to bash you in any way.

 

Your wife is in her sexual prime and is you don't take care of here someone else will.

 

The problem is can you live with that. If not you need to step up your game and not just sexually. You need to step it up in a variety of areas.

 

You need to stop being a weak man with her. I know that hurts some, but dude it is the truth...

 

What did I expect? I expected her to come to me and let me know that my problem was becoming a problem for her. I expected her to tell me that she was having feelings for someone else and was considering leaving or acting on urges she was feeling toward another man. I expected her to give me a chance to follow through when I said that I recognized that I wasn't giving her enough and intended to rectify that.

 

As for being weak, you're totally right... and my begging and pleading has been replaced with ground rules and demands. I'm working on it. I know I need to be more of a man about it. I know I need to stop being the kind of man to whom it's easy to do crap like this.

 

And you should remember, when you're a person for whom sex is that major an aspect of life, it's easy to relate with someone who felt the need to do this. I'm not a person like that, so I can't relate with the idea of needing sex so badly I would hurt people I love in order to get it.

 

What I expected is the problem. I failed to step into the mindset of a person who thinks entirely differently from the way I think. It's not what I would have done in her situation. Not even close. If I expected it it's only because it happened before... but not because it was in any way reasonable.

Edited April 27, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Merge

[Overtaxed]

I dont agree. There's an emotional bond between my husband and I that we share with no one else. If he shared this bond with someone else I'd be devastated...the same as a physical affair. In fact IMO an emotional affair is worse...I don't know if I could stay in a marriage knowing he loved someone else.

 

I hear what you're saying, but, just some food for thought. He does love someone else. His mother. His father. His brothers/sisters. Maybe even some of his close friends. "Love" of another person isn't what makes an EA and EA, secrets/lies, and a knowledge that something is inappropriate is really what crosses the line. You probably have secrets from your husband that you only share with your girlfriends, and that; of course, is OK, as long as they don't hurt your relationship with him.

 

I do agree with you in principal, but, emotions for another person, even love, aren't restricted after marriage. It's only sex that has an absolute "NO" associated with it, which is what makes a PA so powerful; not that an EA isn't terrible, but you only need to read here for a few days to see the posts saying "Found an EA, thank GOD it never got to PA". Especially men, likely because we know that an EA is typically one sided (woman being emotionally invested with the man, but not the other way around).

[somanymistakes]

I dont agree. There's an emotional bond between my husband and I that we share with no one else. If he shared this bond with someone else I'd be devastated...the same as a physical affair. In fact IMO an emotional affair is worse...I don't know if I could stay in a marriage knowing he loved someone else.

 

I definitely understand that some people feel that sex is the only thing that separates marriage from other relationships, but then how do they explain people who are swingers yet choose to stay married? Or people who are poly and were NEVER sexually exclusive, but chose to get married.

 

Marriage simply isn't just about the sexual bond. If nothing else, it's about an agreement to build a life together, to share fortunes with each other and support each other always, not just when it's convenient. Yes, friends and family support you to some extent but a spouse is meant to always be the top priority.

 

That's what trips people up in affairs sometimes, when the AP thinks the marriage must be dead because the WS is violating that sexual bond, but when push comes to shove the WS generally picks the spouse because they are the spouse.

[usernameisvalid]

For me sex feels great, when I'm having sex, but it doesn't have anything to do with anything outside of the bedroom. It's not different from eating ice cream. I like eating ice cream. I try to do it every once in a while, but when I'm not eating ice cream I don't define myself as an ice-cream deprived person. My level of ice cream consumption does not affect my day to day life. Sometimes I say to myself, "I could go for some ice cream. I think I'll have some later" and sometimes I say "I could go for some sex. I think I'll have some later". If I never do either again, my life will not change other than that I might miss that occasional urge. And with ice cream, I can't watch a video on the internet and just as easily (more easily in fact) take care of that urge on my own.

 

But you can eat other foods to satisfy hunger and/or a sweet tooth. Sure, you can get yourself off in lieu of having sex or being sexual with your wife, but obviously you can't fulfill her sexual needs without her. You can't bond with your wife without her, and while I hear you saying that sex is a purely physical act for you, I'm not sure how you can see it as void of any bonding/relationship value when it's something she clearly needs from you. As spouses we should be cognizant of our partners' needs, and I think fulfilling their needs - whether it's sex or affection or help with the dishes or emotional support or whatever - fulfilling those needs even when those things aren't our main priorities is a way of expressing love, which contributes to the strength of the relationship or the bond between spouses.

 

I don't, by any means, think your wife acted appropriately or that the lack of sex justifies her actions. That ice cream analogy just really stood out to me. I'm also very curious to know if your wife initiates sex or if it's all up to you.

[Overtaxed]

I'm actually happy for you that your sex drive isn't all consuming. It is for a lot of men (and for some, not many, but some, women). It's not like ice cream, it's like air or water. Without it, a lot of men really start to fall apart.

 

This doesn't apply to your situation (since you're the man, and you're not dying for sex) but it does for a lot, and that may be what your wife is basing her experience on.

 

As I've grown older, I've come to think (realize?) that most of what you see around you is because of sex. Men do "stuff", invent thing, build things, change things... Mostly because of the possibility of and drive for sex. It's not an innate desire to be rich; in fact, most men don't even care that much for the trappings of wealth (my rich friends very rarely wear expensive clothes, typically don't have a car that's in keeping with their wealth, and, frankly, look at saving as more of a goal than "what can I buy next"). The reason a lot of men strive for wealth is to have sex with more and/or more beautiful women.

 

Take a look at the Japan "herbivore" situation. Men who've renounced their sexuality; they wish to live and strive to live without sex. And, because of that, they drive is gone, they have no desire to get the "big job", in fact, many of them don't even have a desire to get out of their parents basement. They just coast through life because, the drive for sex is the same drive that spurs so many other dreams, desires and goals of men. Kill one, they often all die.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I definitely understand that some people feel that sex is the only thing that separates marriage from other relationships, but then how do they explain people who are swingers yet choose to stay married? Or people who are poly and were NEVER sexually exclusive, but chose to get married.

 

Marriage simply isn't just about the sexual bond. If nothing else, it's about an agreement to build a life together, to share fortunes with each other and support each other always, not just when it's convenient. Yes, friends and family support you to some extent but a spouse is meant to always be the top priority.

 

That's what trips people up in affairs sometimes, when the AP thinks the marriage must be dead because the WS is violating that sexual bond, but when push comes to shove the WS generally picks the spouse because they are the spouse.

 

in our situation...sex was always very important...I was a virgin...he was the only boy i ever dated

 

so for us sex was indeed a very very important sexual bond. For those who have had many sexual partners or who have been divorced...this might be hard to understand.

 

but yes...the sexual betrayal was a huge thing...HUGE as our president would say..

 

I cannot explain and do not atempt to pretend i understand others mindsets..and i certainly dont think you understand the mindset of a virgin marrying a man...and keeping herself only unto him

 

Sex is a very important part of a marriage...and when others become part of that equation...it can devastate the betrayed....and yet the AP's have no clue as to what they do to the betrayed....my ap has no idea...nor does he care what he took away from my nusband..what i willingly gave away.....

[Just a Guy]

Hi Smiley, after reading your posts and the rationalizations you have given for various aspects of your/your wife's behaviours it comes to mind that possibly the two of you are just not compatible! It is like coupling a super charged racing car engine with your good old family station wagon. Both of them will be gnashing their teeth and will just not be able to work together. They may make some motion but in the end one or the other will tear the other apart. I understand that this analogy does not really describe your situation truly but it is just an example to highlight the incongruencies that can occur when two people with completely different traits and needs come together in a union as intimate as marriage.

 

It is obvious from your detailed explanation about how you feel about sex and how she thinks of sex, that there is a basic disconnect between the way you two think of this most basic of human needs. You could do without sex just as you could do without ice cream but with her sex is linked to an emotional connection and if she feels that she wants to have sex with someone then the underlying fact is that she has an emotional connection to that person. Whether it is there or not she just assumes that it must be there. There is also the fact that she has a high sex drive as is to be expected of a woman her age. It is something that comes naturally to her. In your case you are cultivating a habit of having sex with her on a frequent basis but it is NOT something that is welling up in you naturally. It is not your natural instinct and therein lies the big difference! You love her without the sexual connection and you could go a long time without sex with her and yet love her to death. With her the lack of sex with you reinforces her belief that she is no more emotionally attracted to you whereas her new beau with whom she would like to jump into bed is her emotional partner. Even when you force yourself to have sex with her often she instinctively knows that the effort is forced and that nullifies whatever good you had hoped for in enhancing your relationship. Such a basic difference in perception is, to my mind, something that cannot be overcome and you could try from now till kingdom come to bridge this gap but the twain shall never meet! Remember there is that colloquial saying' A well f....d wife is a happy wife'! I think both men and women need sex on a regular basis and if there is a mismatch in this fundamental need then there is trouble looming in marital paradise. Warm wishes.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Just a Guy