MM loses OW

[Chica80]

That was harsh. Cowardly I was when I didn't admit the A in counseling. But my W is violent. And I am a (look, I hate to write this, but I work out) very strong guy with no desire to hurt anyone. Being physically threatened is difficult. I am not a coward. Try using a more appropriate word.

 

What do I want? The passion and love of a woman who doesn't want to hurt me.

 

If that is what you want then why are you still with your wife?

 

Your wife told you she did not want to be with you. She wanted a divorce. You met another woman who you love, who you say is kind good....

 

Your wife threatens to kill herself because you don't want to be with her. That is manipulative and making you responsible for her choices.

 

I don't care that you had an A. If it was the other way around your wife had an A, would it be ok for you to go after her and beat her? No, that is not ok she is in control of her choices. Just like you were in control of yours.

 

Maybe cowardly is not the right word. Afraid. Afraid of the unkown..

 

Your wife's issues are far beyond her illness. Unless she had a brain tumor that caused her to seriously change personalities and become violent her behavior is unacceptable.

 

My belief is you've been in it for so long that you can't see outside of it. This and all her awful behavior has become the "norm" well it's not.

 

I was so afraid for so long, that I couldn't make it on my own that I had to keep trying harder and work harder and if I was just the dutiful wife it would get better.

 

Guess what it is better on the other side.

 

Maybe for you it can get better staying and reconciling, no one can truly know only you. But your wife needs serious help.

 

Don't stay because you are afraid.

[Chica80]

Also wanted to add...I'm sorry you are hurting I was married when I started A. I am OW....I understand your pain for your OW because when you've been in a relationship that's manipulative and damaging to your soul and spirit and when you feel that love unlike anything you had before. Ya been there.

 

That's what I meant by coward.

[donbar]

You don't think it's strange that she asked you if you turned to anyone, attacked you when you lied, and afterward said that what she did was "worse than cheating"? Why would she even compare it to that or bring that up if it wasn't related? I am a bit confused about the TL and maybe you weren't lying about that particular instance of turning to your friend, but the fact is that in the past, you were turning to another woman. I understand that your wife has a history of abuse and am not saying that it justifies her abuse, but it does seem that, drunk or not, she knows about your A. Perhaps she has had an inkling for a long time and has tried to bury it. If this is the case, she needs and deserves to know the truth. You may have once agreed that you didn't want to know if the other cheated, but now she has pretty much asked you directly, so that has clearly changed for her.

 

It sounds like your wife has struggled with mental health issues for a long time and has not received the help that she needs. You have also mentioned her drinking in a couple of posts. Is she an alcoholic? In this particular episode, she could have been enraged by your betrayal and lying to her, but on more than one occasion, she has been a danger to herself and to you. She needs to be put under observation or at least go to AA. If you see counselors, it may be time for new counselors (actually psychologists if not psychiatrists) and a different/more intensive type of therapy.

 

I don't think you are a coward for standing by your wife, but I am confused about why you continue doing so. It is very hard to pull yourself out of an abusive cycle, especially when you are being manipulated and blackmailed, but it would probably be for the best, especially if you are going to be carrying a torch for OW, and if your wife is violent and unpredictable. Your A aside, it is not clear that you can truly care for or provide the care your wife needs (from a mental health standpoint.) In any case, you need to get thoughts of OW out of your head long enough to get your life straightened out.

 

A note about your kids, you've said they are grown. From what I understand, even people with good childhoods and decent parents eventually have to realize that their parents are not the perfect humans they have tried so hard to present themselves as. I don't see why your A even needs to come up if you divorce (unless your wife already knows), so I am not sure why that would affect them. Of course, they will be upset if you separate, no way around that. From your posts, it appears your wife has them under her thumb as well but they will have to face the truth about her eventually as well.

 

Thank you. My priority is to sort out my M and my W. She absolutely does not know of my A, and remember, it is over. My W has many other issues that are too specific to deal with, that include parents, siblings, self image, the list is endless. Getting her to a counselor is a major step in the right direction, but what happened a couple of days ago has put R back in my mind significantly. We seemed to be doing so well and then this...

[donbar]

Also wanted to add...I'm sorry you are hurting I was married when I started A. I am OW....I understand your pain for your OW because when you've been in a relationship that's manipulative and damaging to your soul and spirit and when you feel that love unlike anything you had before. Ya been there.

 

That's what I meant by coward.

 

Thank you.

[wmacbride]

I read this reply before it got edited but I will respond to it. This forum is for those who cheat and got cheated on. It is supposed to be a place where we can find support. I cheated, deeply regret it, yet still find myself uncontrollably yearning for my other woman. I wish I didn't but I do. I wish I could hold her in my arms and kiss her lips and tell her we will be together. But I can't. And all you guys slamming me doesn't change a thing. Thank you to those who apply constructive criticism. It is much appreciated. My W is struggling to cope with her disease. She is in immense pain and I am trying to help. I am neither doctor nor counselor. I have been married for more than a quarter century. I have 2 great children, I have fought for this country, and I need help. So stop being angry and help me. Or don't post. Simple enough.

I am struggling and I need your support, not nasty words. Try again.

 

Support isn't always a pat on the head. Sometimes, it can mean a kick in the pants. People are getting frustrated with you because you are spinning your wheels, and when someone consistently chooses, over and over again, to remain where they are, one really begins to wonder why.

 

In some ways, I don't believe any of the malarkey you are spinning about your ow. She may be a wonderful person, but she is also a dishonest person who finds cheating acceptable ( if she didn't, she wouldn't have gotten involved with a married man) and in a few years, you'd likely find yourself on the receiving end of adultery, or end up cheating again yourself.

 

op, in my humble opinion, you need to spend time on your own without your ow and wife. Line up some support for your wife, make sure your kids are well looked after and take some time to clear your head. Leave your phone and computer at home and bring along a good book. Go somewhere quiet and calm were you can take the time to really think without all the static around you. Listen to your inner voice. What is it telling you?

 

For what it's worth, I've been on the opposite side of a military family. I've been a military spouse for many years, and it's a hard row to hoe sometimes. I really feel for your wife about that, as if it's anything like it is here, she's had to pick up stakes again and again, moving all over hell's half acre, and if your spouse is deployed, being nervous every time the phone rings or there's a knock at the door, because it could be bad news. You force yourself to not watch the news to see if there had been any casualties, and between combat casualties and the walking wounded who couldn't hold on any longer and took their own lives, I've lost some good friends.

 

I'm not trying to excuse her behavior,and I don't think you should stay with her out of guilt or a sense of duty. What I am saying is she may well have been carrying a lot of weight on her shoulders, likely more than you realize.

[donbar]

Support isn't always a pat on the head. Sometimes, it can mean a kick in the pants. People are getting frustrated with you because you are spinning your wheels, and when someone consistently chooses, over and over again, to remain where they are, one really begins to wonder why.

 

In some ways, I don't believe any of the malarkey you are spinning about your ow. She may be a wonderful person, but she is also a dishonest person who finds cheating acceptable ( if she didn't, she wouldn't have gotten involved with a married man) and in a few years, you'd likely find yourself on the receiving end of adultery, or end up cheating again yourself.

 

op, in my humble opinion, you need to spend time on your own without your ow and wife. Line up some support for your wife, make sure your kids are well looked after and take some time to clear your head. Leave your phone and computer at home and bring along a good book. Go somewhere quiet and calm were you can take the time to really think without all the static around you. Listen to your inner voice. What is it telling you?

 

For what it's worth, I've been on the opposite side of a military family. I've been a military spouse for many years, and it's a hard row to hoe sometimes. I really feel for your wife about that, as if it's anything like it is here, she's had to pick up stakes again and again, moving all over hell's half acre, and if your spouse is deployed, being nervous every time the phone rings or there's a knock at the door, because it could be bad news. You force yourself to not watch the news to see if there had been any casualties, and between combat casualties and the walking wounded who couldn't hold on any longer and took their own lives, I've lost some good friends.

 

I'm not trying to excuse her behavior,and I don't think you should stay with her out of guilt or a sense of duty. What I am saying is she may well have been carrying a lot of weight on her shoulders, likely more than you realize.

 

I get what you are saying. Me spinning my wheels is down to those things that have been written about so many times. Being physically attacked has changed my mindset.

 

But you are wrong about the OW. Very, very wrong. It's that simple. Just because you make assumptions doesn't make them right. Some of us, us WS, OM, OW, don't want what happens but it does. She tried and eventually extracted herself from the A and that makes her strong and in my opinion, a pretty amazing person.

 

Yes, my W dealt with deployments. My job was extremely dangerous. I lost comrades and escaped death on one occasion by margins so small it is almost unbelievable. She was a stalwart throughout. We moved every few years, sometimes less. It is tough. But now life is stable and we are well off and she has every material thing she could ever need and we were getting our act together really well. And then she hit me. Again and again.

 

You are right. She has very many issues and I think she is just starting to realize the enormity of it all, and that it might not be all my fault!

 

I agree with much of what you say about time alone. Thank you for taking the time to comment.

[cocorico]

That was harsh. Cowardly I was when I didn't admit the A in counseling. But my W is violent. And I am a (look, I hate to write this, but I work out) very strong guy with no desire to hurt anyone. Being physically threatened is difficult. I am not a coward. Try using a more appropriate word.

 

What do I want? The passion and love of a woman who doesn't want to hurt me.

 

Please leave your M. You are making excuses for your W's violence. She may be ill but her abuse remains abuse. You are not obligated to remain with an abuser.

 

My H also had an A because of "wanting the passion and love of a woman who didn't want to hurt him". He landed up falling in love and leaving his abusive (now X) wife. You've fallen in love. You've broken the dependancy. You can leave, and you should, while you still can.

[elaine567]

Please leave your M. You are making excuses for your W's violence. She may be ill but her abuse remains abuse. You are not obligated to remain with an abuser.

 

My H also had an A because of "wanting the passion and love of a woman who didn't want to hurt him". He landed up falling in love and leaving his abusive (now X) wife. You've fallen in love. You've broken the dependancy. You can leave, and you should, while you still can.

Donbar won't/can't/doesn't want to leave, his OW can barely control her hatred for him now and he doesn't want to be single.

 

 

The OW: I saw her at work three (ish) weeks ago. She was almost unable to control her hatred for me. It haunts me still.

[wmacbride]

op,

 

there is a lot of projection going on here, probably by myself included. It's being made based on one side of the story. We all view it through the lens of our own experiences, and a lot of the advice handed out isn't going to be impartial. It's written by people ( including myself) who see what we want to see.

 

In the end, you know yourself and your situation. Quite frankly, you and your wife are both abusing one another. Her with her words and you with cheating. This is a serious situation, and I would gently suggest to you that you would be better served by seeking counsel from an impartial third party who knows all the ins and outs of your situation and who has heard from both sides.

[Cymbeline]

op,

 

there is a lot of projection going on here, probably by myself included. It's being made based on one side of the story. We all view it through the lens of our own experiences, and a lot of the advice handed out isn't going to be impartial. It's written by people ( including myself) who see what we want to see.

 

In the end, you know yourself and your situation. Quite frankly, you and your wife are both abusing one another. Her with her words and you with cheating. This is a serious situation, and I would gently suggest to you that you would be better served by seeking counsel from an impartial third party who knows all the ins and outs of your situation and who has heard from both sides.

 

I second all of this, except the part which suggests you know yourself and your situation.

 

I believe you and your wife need some heavy duty depth psychology - not simple counselling. Here is a whole load of dysfunction going on here whichbis causing damage to a number of people. And it is not necessary. Give yourself and those around you he gift of therapy, bit make sure it is good therapy.

 

You surely cannot believe this behaviour, from any party, is optimal.

[Birdies]

op,

 

there is a lot of projection going on here, probably by myself included. It's being made based on one side of the story. We all view it through the lens of our own experiences, and a lot of the advice handed out isn't going to be impartial. It's written by people ( including myself) who see what we want to see.

 

In the end, you know yourself and your situation. Quite frankly, you and your wife are both abusing one another. Her with her words and you with cheating. This is a serious situation, and I would gently suggest to you that you would be better served by seeking counsel from an impartial third party who knows all the ins and outs of your situation and who has heard from both sides.

 

She's not just abusing him with words, but by beating the shlt out of him.

 

Donbar - a marriage is not a life sentence. You have been endowed with free will, and you have the ability to change your situation. I know you care for your wife and worry about how she would handle a divorce. But ultimately, we all have one single precious life to live. It is not your responsibility to hitch yourself to an abusive partner for life, just because you made vows.

[donbar]

Thanks guys. All valid points although some other points of view have led me to believe that maybe OW doesn't hate me, just the fact that she was an OW and she hates that.

I was finding it very difficult to gather the courage to leave my W after 26 years of marriage. We are entrenched in each other's lives through finances, contracts, emotional ties, memories, children, pets, experiences. It's scary to me. Don't get angry, I'm just being honest. It's not something I want to just throw away as circumstances with the OW changed. But the physical abuse changed it.

I will keep you up to date as things progress. Once again, thank you for the support.

[Furious]

Donbar

 

You're using excuses...and you are whiny and projecting your victimhood.

 

Mean OW who has dumped you and mean wife who you can't seem to divorce.

 

You're not relationship material at this point in your life.

 

Your affair is over and so is your marriage...it's that simple.

 

Your indecision and lack of courage is a turn off in the sense that you're a high maintenance gamble.

 

You've lied to your wife and OW, but the biggest lie is the one you tell to yourself and you act like a victim.

 

Where ever you go there you are.

[donbar]

Donbar

 

You're using excuses...and you are whiny and projecting your victimhood.

 

Mean OW who has dumped you and mean wife who you can't seem to divorce.

 

You're not relationship material at this point in your life.

 

Your affair is over and so is your marriage...it's that simple.

 

Your indecision and lack of courage is a turn off in the sense that you're a high maintenance gamble.

 

You've lied to your wife and OW, but the biggest lie is the one you tell to yourself and you act like a victim.

 

Where ever you go there you are.

 

Well Furious, that tone is unnecessary. Commenting on my lack of courage, me being a turn off, me acting like a victim, being whiny and not relationship material are not constructive. I don't even want a relationship at this moment. In the spirit of LS I will accept that the intent of your post is to get me to pull myself together and sort my life out.

[Furious]

Well Furious, that tone is unnecessary.

 

Commenting on my lack of courage, me being a turn off, me acting like a victim, being whiny and not relationship material are not constructive.

 

I don't even want a relationship at this moment.

 

In the spirit of LS I will accept that the intent of your post is to get me to pull myself together and sort my life out.

 

^^^^^

 

excellent...you get the point...sort out your life.

[cocorico]

Thanks guys. All valid points although some other points of view have led me to believe that maybe OW doesn't hate me, just the fact that she was an OW and she hates that.

I was finding it very difficult to gather the courage to leave my W after 26 years of marriage. We are entrenched in each other's lives through finances, contracts, emotional ties, memories, children, pets, experiences. It's scary to me. Don't get angry, I'm just being honest. It's not something I want to just throw away as circumstances with the OW changed. But the physical abuse changed it.

I will keep you up to date as things progress. Once again, thank you for the support.

 

My H was with his abuser for three decades. I understand how difficult it is to leave something that has been your "normal" for most of your life. But viewing it as "throwing it away" suggests a value judgment that may no longer be appropriate. Perhaps staying can be seen as "throwing your life away" when staying equates with willingly putting yourself there to be abused. Whichever way, you need to consider the quality of life, of your M, of what you'd be staying for, for all of you. It strikes me that no one really wins by you staying. Your W is clearly unhappy. You are being abused. It may feel like a comfort zone, but comfort zones don't normally leave bruise.

 

Get out while you can, before one of you leaves on a stretcher.

[Furious]

 

I decided to stay because I cannot have my OW.

 

She made it clear she wants to find love elsewhere.

 

I have no interest in being single so I can look for what I had with my OW because I don't believe I would ever find it again.

 

 

I want her so much it hurts. If she told me to get divorced and she would consider me once I was single I would do it.

 

 

But I'm not going to get divorced and end up alone, with children who won't talk to me because I would rather be comfortable and have a companion who has become much easier to live with.

 

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Furious]

 

I will always love my OW. She is the sweetest person I have ever met and I realize that she is mortally wounded by me, and I also know she was part of the problem.

 

Meanwhile, Mrs JA, don't worry, I am working very hard to fix my M.

 

I know OW is gone. And I'm okay with that. My life is mine, and I will not be going backwards.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[cocorico]

^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

The posts quoted were posted before the overt violence. I think the violence has opened Op's eyes as to how serious the situation has become.

[donbar]

The posts quoted were posted before the overt violence. I think the violence has opened Op's eyes as to how serious the situation has become.

 

Thank you Cocorico, I was just logging back on to reply to the hammering I'm getting from Furious and you beat me to it.

 

I was committed to trying to salvage my marriage. My feelings for the OW won't go away and I won't villainize her, I accept she has moved on.. my priority was to resolve the issues in my M, but the attack has left me reeling physically and emotionally. I have little outlet but here on LS. I am not perfect, as has been pointed out so many times. I get it. Working on sorting myself out. Thanks Furious, for highlighting my changing thoughts and the ups and downs of my life.

[wmacbride]

Thank you Cocorico, I was just logging back on to reply to the hammering I'm getting from Furious and you beat me to it.

 

I was committed to trying to salvage my marriage. My feelings for the OW won't go away and I won't villainize her, I accept she has moved on.. my priority was to resolve the issues in my M, but the attack has left me reeling physically and emotionally. I have little outlet but here on LS. I am not perfect, as has been pointed out so many times. I get it. Working on sorting myself out. Thanks Furious, for highlighting my changing thoughts and the ups and downs of my life.

 

[]

 

First off, I would speak to legal counsel. Let them know everything that's gone on and be 100 percent honest. I'm not saying you need to immediately file for divorce, but the more knowledge you have, the better decisions you can make.

 

Take some time and really think about this. If your children are grown, you might be able to take some time on your own. Is it possible for you to book a short stay somewhere nearby? leave your phone, laptop and other contact methods at home ( leave the front desk phone number in case of emergency) and just think.

 

In all honesty, it sounds to me like you and your wife bring out the worst in each other. Neither one of you has clean hands.

Edited June 19, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Topical content and member moderated

[Furious]

 

I am reeling from the repercussions of a PA and it has left me feeling so dreadfully low, with all the associated misery that comes with the decision to cheat. I'm not proud of my actions, I'm ashamed of them. And I realize there are 2 sides to every story, but this is my version...

 

 

 

Been married for 27 years now. 2 grown children. After about 20 years the marriage started to unravel. The usual awful arguments, some threatening behavior on her part, throwing things of mine, storming out on me in restaurants on three occasions, no physical relationship due to a myriad of reasons, and finally she requested a D.

 

I realize that it wasn't all her fault, but like I said, this is my story. We all think it is only happening to us....

 

The day after she said she wanted a divorce I left on a 3 day business trip. This was late in 2014.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And you all know what happened next..more grief at home, more misery, more yearning, and after a particularly nasty wife outburst I reached out to the OW and she was very receptive..

 

 

 

 

Meanwhile, at home, my wife realized she was losing me.

 

So we went to counseling at her insistence, and in front of the counselor she asked me if I was having an affair, and I DENIED it.

 

I didn't have the fortitude, strength of character, nor did I want to hurt my wife or cause pain to her and my children, and so I chose the cowards option and lied.

 

 

Plus, being totally honest, I was afraid of how my wife would behave. She has a tendency to react in explosive ways.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That summer my wife had major treatment and started rehabilitation. OW had tBut life at home was unbearable. The battle with her health made life dreadful. She was angrier than I had ever seen her. She looked to pick fights, and I tried to be gentle and supportive, but one day, during a particularly nasty tirade, I told her I'd had enough. I couldn't do this anymore.

 

That I wanted out. And she tried to kill herself. Not a cry for help. Really really tried. If I thought life was rough before, then this took the biscuit.. then she decided to tell the children she had tried to kill herself because Dad threatened to leave her.

 

 

So I decided to have D day, but no mention of the A.

 

 

 

That was a month ago and we haven't been in touch since.

 

The next day, when I thought about life all alone, or life with my wife, I chose to stay. So I told my wife I was dreadfully dreadfully sorry. And she forgave me. And I'm still married.

 

And I miss OW every single day. And it hurts. Agony. Feels like it will never stop. And that is my story.

 

 

 

And finally, I do love my wife, but not like I love OW. And it is such a burden.

Thanks for listening.

 

 

 

^^^^^^

 

From your opening post.

 

The "abuse" has been going on too long

[LivingWaterPlease]

donbar, I understand your desire to continue in your marriage although it seems to me the relationship between you and your wife has been tenuous for many years.

 

I applaud you for your dedication in trying to keep your marriage together and consider it a strength that you have done so. You seem to me to be courageous in your determination to keep your family together, even in the face of your moral failure with OW which I don't take lightly. From all you've posted it seems to me you realize the gravity of what you have done and have/are attempting to move on from that fiasco.

 

I totally support the strength you've shown in breaking up with her and returning to your wife.

 

As I've read your posts it seems to me you have an underlying tenacity and steely resolve to deal with things in an orderly and methodical manner rather than being spontaneously reactive and backing off due to discouraging circumstances.

 

With that in mind it seems to me you're very wise to make the decision to step back and take some time to reevaluate your marriage and make a plan about how to deal with it going forward.

 

I don't see it as a weakness to be reluctant to leave a relationship with one's spouse of twenty-five years, yet it seems to me you realize your relationship with her has entered into a distinctly different zone than it has been in for the past decades now that she has beaten you.

 

I'm sure you'll know what to do going forward as you process what has taken place.

 

I'm here to support you on LS as long as you feel it's helpful to be here and am confident there are others who will do the same.

Edited June 19, 2017 by LivingWaterPlease

[donbar]

Thank you for that. That is why I turned to LS in the first place.

[William]

I don't particularly care for the thread starter feeling 'hammered' nor for the now redacted suggestions that they leave the site. Let's get back to the topic at hand and deal with it in a respectful manner and, since Moderator ~T already did one cleanup, the next one will result in more moderation/suspension periods than already exist now. Thanks!