For all those with porn issues...

[ribeena]

I'm hardly one to preach I have had constant porn issues with my boyfriend & suffer from low self-esteem and aniexty! I began to see a counsellor about it, but i couldnt help but think how unfair it was that I had to see a counsellor & talk about my issues when it was over what my boyfriend was doing! It didnt make sense!

 

When I told my boyfriend how i felt about his porn collection etc, he got angry with me at first then realised how it upset me so said he'd get rid of it, which i said for him not to do (as it was more about me to him explaining how i felt as a first step) & knew that he wouldnt. So he just hid it away from me, telling me he'd got rid of it & it upset me more that he'd now started lying about it! Now i ask you - is that any better?

 

I'm coming to terms with it, I try various ways to deal with it - trying to turn a blind eye deliberately not looking at certain things etc so not putting myself in situations where i know i'll get upset, but then i feel so let down at times when i accidently come accross the big tits round asses & anal traffic etc websites when i'm trying to check my e-mails. Because obviously i still have feelings that its because there must be something wrong with me etc.

 

Its now got to the point where he has a locked chest, which i obviously know whats in there & he never says whats in there or why he locks it because he'll only be lying to me... but its something i wont understand and therefore still have to see a consellor about which still doesnt make sense to me cos my boyfriends the one hiding stuff, lying so not to upset me but still having the "urge"!

 

Pornography twists everything around, i've always felt this. It de-personalizes that most intimate of acts, turning something that should be joyful into an obsession. I just want to understand that when your with someone you love & they say they love you & are so happy with why they then have to objectify other women?

 

Anyway - amongst my waffle I guess what i'm trying to say is after all this i have good days where it doesnt bother me and bad days where i get really upset but what i try & tell myself & what you gotta rememeber is - sex is just a small part of life, your boyfriend is with you because he loves you, he doesnt love the women from the porn but, as i've been taught through counselling & trying to accept, its just one of those differences between men & women! And hes only looking at pics, vids etc not actually engaging in those acts with other real women.

 

Anyway if what ive said is no help & your still upset about and find you cant accept it you could always try playing him at his own game...

[Outcast]

The masculine point of view is that porn is simply a way to alleviate horniness rapidly and efficiently. The visuals help because men are visual. Men and women do think differently so it is a mistake to believe that you in his situation would think something since you can't ever occupy his head space any more than he can yours.

 

To him, it's like looking at pictures of cars. They look hot and maybe turn his crank briefly but the warm, loving woman he has is always the best thing in his life and the rest is just momentary entertainment. As long as he's not addicted, and it sounds as though he's not, you're doing great to try to get over the idea that he 'prefers' the pictures to you. He doesn't.

[Grinning Maniac]

Originally posted by ribeena Anyway if what ive said is no help & your still upset about and find you cant accept it you could always try playing him at his own game...

 

That's probably...not very smart. A man looking a porn is not doing so because of you. He's not doing it in order to effect you in any way. You can't "play him at his own game" because it's not a game in the first place. Not to mention the fact that doing so WOULD be a game on your part. It would be manipulation and acting out of bitterness.

 

Just a thought.

[ribeena]

It was an off the cuff comment, I simply meant if nothing i'd said helped then they could try & make their boyfriends see it from our point of view...visually if you like, men's egos are easily damaged as are womens feelings.

[crazy_grl]

I'd bet that there are thousands of people who will tell you that you're wrong to have a problem with men looking at porn, and that it's just something men do. Men and women are different. It doens't reflect on you, because he loves you, not the picture. You should watch it with him and learn to be okay with it, etc. blah, blah, blah. [cough]bulls***[cough]

 

Well, the fact that it doesn't reflect on you is right. You could be a super model and he'd still look at porn. The issue is all his, and I don't believe that anyone should have to go to counseling for the 'problem' they're having of not being able to deal with porn. There are many perfectly legitimate reasons for disliking porn, and there are men who dislike it as well. If you don't approve of your partner having porn, and he/she can't get rid of it, they're the person who needs counseling.

 

After all, it's just images, a visual to get off on, not a real people. It means nothing compared to you, right? So why do so many people have trouble getting rid of something so meaningless when the person they love asks them to? If they can't get rid of it, then the porn does mean more to them. And if they lie about it, then they're also untrustworthy.

 

Porn is not a 'male' thing. That's like saying getting thousands of dollars into debt to buy shoes is a 'female' thing. They're both harmful to the individual, and they're character things. If you don't approve of porn, don't date people who are into it.

[Just Visiting]

When I was a young girl, I came across my father's porn magazine collection. I used to sneak in their bedroom and look at the pictures. I found them fascinating, naughty, and embarassing all at the same time. I always had the impression that pornography was a bad thing, and shouldn't be looked at it. And yet, people would hide behind closed doors and indulge. So I have been given mixed messages.

 

I am now 34 years old and been living with my bf for about 8 months now. When we were dating, I would jump on his computer to surf or check my emails. I was curious one day to see what he looks at it. I saw a few porn sites. I was shocked to be honest. But decided not to make an issue out of it.

 

I find that I still have a varied view on porn. I myself have downloaded a couple of movies and masturbate to them. My bf has quite the porn collection and it does bother me. I let him know that I am aware of his movies and asked if there was anything that I wasn't doing for him. He replied that he is very sexually attracted to me and felt that there wasn't anything wrong. Since then, I have noticed that he doesn't leave any tapes around. He is more discreet.

 

I realize that I get jealous with my bf's porn collection. I am not large-breasted or built like a model. But I am nice looking, dress well, and not totally out of shape. So I see that my insecurity with his collection has to do with how I feel about myself and my body. It has nothing to do with him. It would be hypocritical of me to demand that he dump his collection and concentrate solely on me. Especially when I indulge myself when he is not around. To be honest, I would be embarassed if he found out. There are times when I fantasize difference scenarios while making love with him, it helps me climax sooner.

 

I wonder if I am the only person who is on the fence in regards to this issue.

[crazy_grl]

Originally posted by Just Visiting

I realize that I get jealous with my bf's porn collection. I am not large-breasted or built like a model. But I am nice looking, dress well, and not totally out of shape. So I see that my insecurity with his collection has to do with how I feel about myself and my body. It has nothing to do with him.

 

My problem with porn has nothing to do with what the women look like. It's the same problems that ribeena has in that it's depersonalizing and very often degrading toward women. I look at Maxim and Stuff and the women there are 20x hotter than women in porn. I'm not jealous of them. They look damn good.

 

For me, it has everything to do with what kind of a person would watch it or read porn mags. I've been told how non-degrading those things really are, but when I've watched it, almost every aspect of it was offensive to me. If a guy doesn't think that is degrading, I don't want to be with him because our ideas of how to respect the opposite sex are wildly different.

 

It would be hypocritical of me to demand that he dump his collection and concentrate solely on me. Especially when I indulge myself when he is not around.

 

It would be hypocritical of you because you use it yourself. It's not hypocritical if you disapprove of it. The poster disapproves and therefore, she is not hypocritical in asking him to get rid of it.

 

To be honest, I would be embarassed if he found out. There are times when I fantasize difference scenarios while making love with him, it helps me climax sooner.

 

I hope just different scenarios, not different people. I think it's repulsive to imagine another person while you're supposed to be with someone you love. Recreational sex is a bit of a different story though.

 

I wonder if I am the only person who is on the fence in regards to this issue.

 

I'm not. Men looking at women fully clothed is perfectly okay as long as they're not picturing me as them during sex. Porn, not okay. I don't think a person should have to compromise their own values and morals for the sake of being 'open minded', especially if the OP isn't open to the fact that someone could have a justifiable problem with porn.

[jacquelyn]

Originally posted by crazy_grl

I'd bet that there are thousands of people who will tell you that you're wrong to have a problem with men looking at porn, and that it's just something men do. Men and women are different. It doens't reflect on you, because he loves you, not the picture. You should watch it with him and learn to be okay with it, etc. blah, blah, blah. [cough]bulls***[cough]

 

Well, the fact that it doesn't reflect on you is right. You could be a super model and he'd still look at porn. The issue is all his, and I don't believe that anyone should have to go to counseling for the 'problem' they're having of not being able to deal with porn. There are many perfectly legitimate reasons for disliking porn, and there are men who dislike it as well. If you don't approve of your partner having porn, and he/she can't get rid of it, they're the person who needs counseling.

 

After all, it's just images, a visual to get off on, not a real people. It means nothing compared to you, right? So why do so many people have trouble getting rid of something so meaningless when the person they love asks them to? If they can't get rid of it, then the porn does mean more to them. And if they lie about it, then they're also untrustworthy.

 

Porn is not a 'male' thing. That's like saying getting thousands of dollars into debt to buy shoes is a 'female' thing. They're both harmful to the individual, and they're character things. If you don't approve of porn, don't date people who are into it.

 

I agree with every word you said! Now I'll have a REALLY good reason to defend my views on porn if we ever argue about it again.

[Outcast]

If they can't get rid of it, then the porn does mean more to them.

 

No. All it means is that they see no reason to make such a big deal of it, that the person having the fit about it is unreasonable, and that there's no reason to give in to an unreasonable demand. And they're right.

[ribeena]

Okay today i'm having a bad day... i was cleaning our room when i found a photo album which i opened to reveal naked pictures of his ex... sorry just wanted to get that out in the open - feeling pretty ****ty bout it!

[lindya]

Some pretty interesting viewpoints. I'm inclined to agree that if a woman doesn't like porn that shouldn't be deemed a flaw that she needs to address or seek counselling for. If her partner likes to use it, then some form of compromise must be reached, or it's just going to eat away at the relationship.

 

I've got reservations about the boundary-pushing porn produced by the Max Hardcore type. My understanding is that he's pretty widely hated in the business, and a lot of actresses will only work with him once. UK tv (channel 4, I think) did a documentary a few years back featuring an English single mother whose agent took her to Hollywood in an effort to break into the business there. Initially she was completely resistant to the sort of films he wanted her to feature in...so then he took her for a visit to Max Hardcore's "chateau".

 

After being "choked" during a facial, she ran out of the room and upstairs. The documentary crew then filmed Hardcore trying to bully her into returning on set. Although the crew weren't supposed to intervene in the making of the documentary, for legal reasons they had to remove her from the premises when she started to cave into the bullying (non-consensual sex being about to take place). From her agent's point of view, it did the trick. Once they'd left the chateau, the actress had been sufficiently de-sensitised to get involved in the stuff that she'd previously refused to do. Can't remember the name of the documentary, but google Felicity and max hardcore and I'm sure there's something about it on the net.

 

I just can't get that picture out of my mind and say that I'm 100% cool with porn. I accept that a lot of men feel they need to use it for masturbation, and provided its production involves consenting actors whose welfare has been given due consideration then in theory I don't have any problem with it. On the other hand, I'm not sure how many porn users would seriously bother checking that out...and there's certainly a niche market for people who want something a bit nastier than the reputable producers churn out.

 

I think the welfare aspect does tend to get skipped over when people are having the eternal porn debate here, and I'm glad it's not been ignored on this thread.

[lindya]

Originally posted by Outcast

No. All it means is that they see no reason to make such a big deal of it, that the person having the fit about it is unreasonable, and that there's no reason to give in to an unreasonable demand. And they're right.

 

Here's an article from Naomi Wolfe - a name I suspect you may well have an immediate knee-jerk reaction to. Try to look past the name, however, and consider what she has to say. There are two sides to this argument, and it's useful to consider them both. I'm all for allowing a partner to have a bit of private fantasy time, but increasingly, porn is being recognised as a problem for many couples whose sex lives are deteriorating drastically as a result of it. Ever had a once lovely relationship end when you made it clear you wouldn't get into facials and anal sex - and when you said that no, you didn't want a partner who used other women to participate in those activities with? You think porn didn't play a role in that? I can assure you it did.

 

I'm really getting tired of hearing women being constantly told not to be prudish, unreasonable and uptight about this issue.

 

http://nymetro.com/nymetro/news/trends/n_9437/

[Toni_no12002]

hi well i read this and i have the same problem but what upsets me most is that if he is looking at these women on porn them maybe he would like to do more with her and thats what upsets me.also why do men look at women who are perfect on it?i mean i no where near perfect and it upsets me when i found him looking on the internet.looking at all these women everynight.men are always saying get over it but it isnt that easy and men say we never understand why they do it but men dont understand why women get upset about it and to tell the truth i dont think they care!

[A Fly onThe Wall]

Originally posted by lindya

I'm really getting tired of hearing women being constantly told not to be prudish, unreasonable and uptight about this issue.

 

http://nymetro.com/nymetro/news/trends/n_9437/

 

I'm not normally one to chime in on the subject of porn because it is sooo subjective, But

 

I just had to comment on lindya's link..

 

The link and article are crap.. Written by a feminist therefore are slanted toward her views.

 

They are just her views.. She didn't write the article when she was 25.. She waited until she was 40 and viewed the world a little more sinister because of how she has been treated.

 

Here is the Biggie :

 

 

They have paying ads for lava all over the page and article.. Lava sells porn and sex in their intimate side.... Really funny IMHO

[lindya]

Originally posted by A Fly onThe Wall

The link and article are crap.. Written by a feminist therefore are slanted toward her views.

 

Almost undoubtedly her interest in this area will have subjective roots, and I also agree that her research and findings could be influenced by that. Most theorists do have their own personal biases.

 

To describe the article as crap because it's written by a feminist isn't very illustrative though. To be honest, Fly, if you haven't anything more analytical than that to say on the subject, I'm not sure why you bothered responding.

[A Fly onThe Wall]

Originally posted by lindya

Almost undoubtedly her interest in this area will have subjective roots, and I also agree that her research and findings could be influenced by that. Most theorists do have their own personal biases.

 

To describe the article as crap because it's written by a feminist isn't very illustrative though. To be honest, Fly, if you haven't anything more analytical than that to say on the subject, I'm not sure why you bothered responding.

 

I responded mainly because of the lava ads...

 

selling porn and sex on an article that talks about how bad porn is..

 

Talk about a double standard

 

Like I said porn is a subjective subject ..changing views.. how we were raised and every conceivable thing can alter how we view the effects of porn on us and relationships.

 

And just so you know.. Your link was not very analytical or illustrative either

[lindya]

Originally posted by A Fly onThe Wall

And just so you know.. Your link was not very analytical or illustrative either

 

It wasn't an academic analysis, I agree, but it did encourage consideration of the extent to which we're abusing our western freedoms, and possibly destroying some precious aspects of life in the process. It's a bit scary that so many of us are indifferent to that, and I'm not fully surprised that other cultures live in fear of the day when they're forced to "embrace" these same freedoms we have. Anway, angsty rant over. I don't think there are clear right and wrongs re the porn issue, but a bit of restraint - and understanding on both sides - doesn't go amiss.

 

I didn't get those pop ups you mentioned. Try downloading Spyware or CWShredder to check that the coolwebsearch surf-tracker thing hasn't got into your system.

[A Fly onThe Wall]

Originally posted by lindya

I don't think there are clear right and wrongs re the porn issue, but a bit of restraint - and understanding on both sides - doesn't go amiss.

 

I didn't get those pop ups you mentioned. Try downloading Spyware or CWShredder to check that the coolwebsearch surf-tracker thing hasn't got into your system.

 

I agree with this statement

 

 

And I run 2 different spyware programs and a firewall so it's nothing like that..It wasn't a popup

I have popup blockers running and javascript disabled

 

They are ads being sold by the NYmetro ..2 ads show up at the top and the side of their page.

 

they sell this space

 

http://nymetro.com/nymetro/news/trends/n_9437/

[Outcast]

Ever had a once lovely relationship end when you made it clear you wouldn't get into facials and anal sex - and when you said that no, you didn't want a partner who used other women to participate in those activities with? You think porn didn't play a role in that? I can assure you it did.

 

Now honestly how many relationships break up because someone isn't interested in facials or anal? And do you not think that a guy who'd do such a thing would not have heard about facials and anal in Playboy or Hustler or any of the other sources of sexual titillation that men have always turned to?

 

why do men look at women who are perfect on it?i mean i no where near perfect and it upsets me when i found him looking on the internet.looking at all these women everynight.men are always saying get over it but it isnt that easy and men say we never understand why they do it but men dont understand why women get upset about it and to tell the truth i dont think they care!

 

They do understand that women who have been turned chronically insecure by the fashion industry THINK their men prefer the people in the pictures to them, that that is not even close to true, and they think the women are nuts for being silly enough to believe that their men who love them prefer pictures to them.

 

If you want to get your ire up, lindya and others, then turn your fury on the fashion and beauty industries who have made you feel that you are not good enough. If you didn't think you were fat and ugly and undesirable, you would not fear your man looking at others. If you were secure in yourself, you would not shove your fears onto your men and onto other women. If you trusted that your men loved you, you would not go into these fits of jealousy over pictures.

 

You cannot honestly tell me that it is healthy for a woman to fear her man looking at another woman's image. Do you see men posting here because their women are looking at Brad Pitt? No, because they have not been turned into snivelling, trembling bundles of insecurity. And women, instead of grasping their insecurity and insisting on remaining insecure for life, should be finding ways to get over these fears which cripple them.

 

Yes, there are porn addicts but not everyone who uses porn is an addict and the ones who aren't don't deserve the mistrust they get from their spouses over this.

[lindya]

Outcast, your posts are filled with more preconceptions than anyone else's on this thread. Your enthusiasm to come hurtling in, portraying yourself as one of the more secure and broad-minded members of our gender has resulted in you missing my point and Crazy Girl's point about the exploitative aspects of the industry completely.

 

I've already stated that there's a requirement for moderation and compromise in relationships regarding the porn issue. If you want to debate anything with me then that's fine, but stick to addressing the points I've made rather than haranguing me for an argument I didn't present, and for views I haven't expressed.

[Toni_no12002]

its men doing things like this all the time that makes most women self concious.getting off on slutty looking women!maybe they dont prefer these women but then why do it in the first place?i think in a relationship your not supposed to go and get off when looking at somebody else!

[lvgrly]

Oh just let the man watch his damn porn. Im sure that when you are not with him and your in the mood you sit back, relax and masturbate, and Im almost sure that you are thinking of something.

 

Men on the other hand like to see what they are thinking about, hints porn.

 

Its a never ending battle, make a compromise, meet in the middle with it. Ask him if he would only limit his watching it, to when you are there, and then you two can watch it together and be happy.

 

Making someone get rid of something that belongs to them, their money was spent on it could cause an arugment, but its life..

 

Im sure there are worse things he could be doing than watching porn. And hes not. I would rather my guy watch a damn tape, then go cheat on me. Its just something you learn to deal with.

 

And blaming your boyfriend for you having to see someone about it, is not the route to go either. Its not his fault. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO CHOSES TO ACT THE WAY YOU DO ABOUT IT.

 

At least he tried to hide it so maybe that would ease your mind about it, no he should not have lied about it, but at least he was looking out for you.

[lvgrly]

Originally posted by Toni_no12002

its men doing things like this all the time that makes most women self concious.getting off on slutty looking women!maybe they dont prefer these women but then why do it in the first place?i think in a relationship your not supposed to go and get off when looking at somebody else!

 

I cant believe that I am sticking up for men here..

 

But just because A woman is a stripper, or she is on porn why does that make her "slutty looking" Shes only slutty to you when the clothes come off. I have met plenty of people who strip or who are in videos and when they are in normal attire they are not slutty, but when they get naked that means they are?

 

So if your guy gets off on anything thats not you, whatever hes getting off on makes them a slut?

 

Yeah thats a great way of looking at it.

 

And just so you know hun, its not "men doing things like this all the time that makes women self concious" Its women who cant deal with their own bodies and be comfortable in their own skin that makes them self concious. In the end, only YOU can choose how you feel.

[guest]

I rememer that hardcore doc linda talked about and tho I don't post I wanted to say something about it cause it stuck in my mind too. It was really sad...evr1 at school talked about it next day. The bird just doing it for her kid. My mates got dvds where women got beaten up then pissed on but I cant watch. It's sick. Theres plenty of that stuff out there so enough people out there must buy it.....look it up. if they was making films showing black people getting tortured by whites thered be laldy even if tje black peple were getting paid and aggreeing to do it. So what's racist should be sexist too. Look what happend when they had those pictures in the war. I think its wierd that a bird comes on here and saying that its ok. Would she like to be beated up and pissed on because she needed money for her kids? Would she like a gang of pissed up blokes grabbing her on the street and doing that to her for a joke. I don't think that its ok and im not even a bird. We're all human after all

[Outcast]

missing my point and Crazy Girl's point about the exploitative aspects of the industry completely.

 

Newsflash: few industries aren't exploitative. Have you read Hokey's posts or Otter's posts about their jobs? Ever worked for a big corporation? There is no perfect industry so it's unreasonable to expect that the porn industry would be somehow a model of human rights when WalMart isn't either.

 

And don't dissemble. I responded to your remark about losing relationships due to men wanting different sex acts and to Toni's post so kindly don't accuse me of responding to things you didn't say.