I don't know... at a loss and really just fed up and frustrated.

[QuietDan]

Holy moly reading this thread really hits me hard. I see many similarities in what I have or am facing and I hate to see you so down Mr.Dan. A good part of the problem in the last 15 years of my marriage was me trying to fit my W into what I thought she should be instead of accepting and loving her for who she is. Of course it didn't help matters much that she kept most of herself hidden as a leftover from childhood issues and shame. My W has spent the last year in IC with some serious hallway full of locked doors issues as you so elegantly put it. She is just now starting to open a couple of doors. They haven't gone into the rooms yet, but at least her and her IC are now looking into them.

 

It doesn't sound like you can directly convince your W to go through some sustained IC but maybe you can lead by example. My W started allowing her doors to open when I started IC and started telling her that it is useful. I explained that I asked my IC to poke and prod and the sensitive bits a little to see what shakes loose and also let her know how I was in control of the sessions. If things got too rough or too overwhelming there was nothing wrong with lettting the IC know to back off. I even showed her that I came out unscathed with all my finger, toes, arms and legs. No permanent damage. Or at least none that showed!

 

I appreciate and value this response. It does sound like he have had some similar experiences. I have noticed many of your other post on other threads as well. Often, I find that there many things you say that seem to have a great deal of hard earned wisdom that was learned through pain and frustration. There are many times your post are quiet well written with obvious patience and attention to detail and well executed prose. I appreciate that.

I seemed to have grown a bit distracted and somewhat sloppy with my execution of typing at the keyboard or the phone keyboard as of late.

I suppose, it is due to my general poor state of mind and emotions these last few months.

Relatively speaking, I am in a somewhat long term unanticipated unintended state of separation with my wife. It is a long distance relationship at the moment.

It seems to be bringing out my worse fears and my darkest nature of self pity. Things I am a bit ashamed of and not proud of.

It also seems to be really highlighting to me, just how, shallow the real relationship with my wife seems to be.

It is very frustrating to be having the same conversation over and over again.

Safe easy stuff, endless list of daily activity and schedule, the weather, maybe what the kids are or aren't doing.

Basic general safe face to face general acquaintance conversations. Nothing revealing, nothing emotional. For that matter, conversations a person might have with there 8 year old daughter stuff. PG... not even PG-13... conversations. Safe conversations. Always dancing around the mine field. Most of the mines have been discovered, clearly marked, not even getting close to the edges anymore....

.... So many little details... I use to know... use to remember... use to pay attention to.

I suppose... if I try... I might be able to figure them out again.... remember them...

The ghost of her past haunt us every day... thought she would have... worked through some of them by now... if anything... she seems to have gotten.... to where she over and under compensates even worse these days...

Or, am I just being paranoid with an over active imagination?

A dog with a bone is how she describes me...

Once I latch onto something.... I have a hard time letting it go...

Then again... she sweeps everything under the rug.... Occasionally I get tired walking over the lumps and hills and mention that there seems to be something under the rug...

How to break this status quo?

Can I do it in a productive and positive way somehow?

Use to over analyzing everything. That is how my mother was...no topic taboo, nothing was ever allowed to be swept under a rug around her... every word, every thought was open for discussion and debate.

Animated, lively, energetic discussions. Now, my wife, that was too close to fighting for her... anything controversial was to be avoided, only pleasant safe smiling conversations... I found out why though.... no pressure relief valve, no issues resolve or sorted out with her... it was Peace or War... no middle ground. No way to avoid it. With war, she had no limits... was, angry loud viscous. No real logic, no reason, things said to wound and maim, yelling, tears, crying... all emotional extremes....

So... back to the vanilla conversations, safe conversations, word carefully weighed, policed... things to think and ponder...

She has her good moments, her great moments. She does have a lot of great qualities as well. Many good things to offer a man who take the time to appreciate her for who she is and what she does have to offer.. I care deeply for her, I fear for her, I am duty bound to protect and provide for her. To make the most that is possible out of this relationship. It is my duty to do my best. It is my responsibility to never fail or stumble again. I owe it to her to be there for her. To find my principals, to find my resolve, to find peace with what I am tasked to do.

[Unforseen]

I appreciate and value this response. It does sound like he have had some similar experiences. I have noticed many of your other post on other threads as well. Often, I find that there many things you say that seem to have a great deal of hard earned wisdom that was learned through pain and frustration. There are many times your post are quiet well written with obvious patience and attention to detail and well executed prose. I appreciate that.

And I thank you for the compliment QuietDan. I've always been better able to express what's going on in my head through written word rather than conversation. And yes, much of the wisdom I have picked up has been through the cruel necessity of easing my pain and seeking answers to questions. You know type of questions I mean: How could this happen? What's wrong with me? What's wrong with her? How did I let this happen? Everything seems okay, how did I not see this coming? Most of my growth has happened in the last couple of years, the time since discovering my wife's affairs.

I seemed to have grown a bit distracted and somewhat sloppy with my execution of typing at the keyboard or the phone keyboard as of late.

I suppose, it is due to my general poor state of mind and emotions these last few months.

Without a doubt, sir. Turmoil in your mind will twist things around before you can get the thoughts out whole and intact. If you will forgive me for saying so, when reading your posts the first thought that occurred and my first vision of you was as a Cowboy Poet.

Relatively speaking, I am in a somewhat long term unanticipated unintended state of separation with my wife. It is a long distance relationship at the moment.

It seems to be bringing out my worse fears and my darkest nature of self pity. Things I am a bit ashamed of and not proud of.

I can in some small way relate. Often I have to spend hours on the road inthe course of my work and without fail my mind will go seeking out the worst memories and painful questions to pull out and chew on leaving my mood as barren as the empty road before me.

It also seems to be really highlighting to me, just how, shallow the real relationship with my wife seems to be.

It is very frustrating to be having the same conversation over and over again.

Safe easy stuff, endless list of daily activity and schedule, the weather, maybe what the kids are or aren't doing.

That is tough. To feel so distant from the one you should be closest to. I hope your time apart will not be too great. But it certainly sounds like there are deeper issues here.

Basic general safe face to face general acquaintance conversations. Nothing revealing, nothing emotional. For that matter, conversations a person might have with there 8 year old daughter stuff. PG... not even PG-13... conversations. Safe conversations. Always dancing around the mine field. Most of the mines have been discovered, clearly marked, not even getting close to the edges anymore....

.... So many little details... I use to know... use to remember... use to pay attention to.

I suppose... if I try... I might be able to figure them out again.... remember them...

The ghost of her past haunt us every day... thought she would have... worked through some of them by now... if anything... she seems to have gotten.... to where she over and under compensates even worse these days...

Or, am I just being paranoid with an over active imagination?

A dog with a bone is how she describes me...

Once I latch onto something.... I have a hard time letting it go...

Then again... she sweeps everything under the rug.... Occasionally I get tired walking over the lumps and hills and mention that there seems to be something under the rug...

How to break this status quo?

Can I do it in a productive and positive way somehow?

Use to over analyzing everything. That is how my mother was...no topic taboo, nothing was ever allowed to be swept under a rug around her... every word, every thought was open for discussion and debate.

Animated, lively, energetic discussions. Now, my wife, that was too close to fighting for her... anything controversial was to be avoided, only pleasant safe smiling conversations... I found out why though.... no pressure relief valve, no issues resolve or sorted out with her... it was Peace or War... no middle ground. No way to avoid it. With war, she had no limits... was, angry loud viscous. No real logic, no reason, things said to wound and maim, yelling, tears, crying... all emotional extremes....

So... back to the vanilla conversations, safe conversations, word carefully weighed, policed... things to think and ponder...

She has her good moments, her great moments. She does have a lot of great qualities as well. Many good things to offer a man who take the time to appreciate her for who she is and what she does have to offer.. I care deeply for her, I fear for her, I am duty bound to protect and provide for her. To make the most that is possible out of this relationship. It is my duty to do my best. It is my responsibility to never fail or stumble again. I owe it to her to be there for her. To find my principals, to find my resolve, to find peace with what I am tasked to do.

 

If I may QuietDan, let me tell you a little story. A little girl once had all the typical dreams and desires that most little girls do. She wanted to live, love, laugh and be loved. But sadly this was not in the cards for her. Her daddy disappeared and left a huge empty space in her. She was confused and scared and couldn't understand what was so wrong with her that he would leave.

 

Her mom had her own agenda as well, putting her needs and desires always first and leaving a confused, scared, and lonely little girl alone far too long and far too often. And as she grew up she learned her lessons well. She wasn't important. She was a burden. Her thoughts and dreams and desires were meaningless to others and quickly became meaningless to her. What was the point? Nobody cares about them. Nobody cares about me. Maybe it's just me who is worthless.

 

She continued her growth and study of life and people and learned that it could be okay as long as she hid herself. As long as they don't know the real me they can't hurt me. All I will present to the world is what it wants to see because nothing of me is any good. It doesn't matter if I make myself up as a lie, anyone who gets close enough to find out is just going to abandon me anyway. They always do. She grew to be ashamed of who she was.

 

This sense of shame and worthlessness ruled her life for many years. It became who she was. She pushed herself so far down that all anyone saw was the fake smile plastered on her face and a seeming good natured acceptance of anything that went wrong in her life. Well that's all life was. Things going wrong and people hurting me or leaving me. It's what I deserve after all.

 

She was so good at her act that even the young man she eventually met, truly fell in love with, and married saw no further than the shame fueled facade that she had so careful constructed around herself. Her true self. The marriage was never great, sometimes things were bad but it probably averaged out to mediocre. The young man always felt that something was a little off, but could ever really figure it out. So much of the relationship was only skin deep. He would try to dog occasionally but there just never seemed to be anything there.

 

She on the other hand was miserable. She could never understand why his love felt so selfish and superficial. Even as she concealed so much of herself from him she kept questioning why he would not love her for who she was. Eventually she grew resentful and angry at his selfish love and lack of understanding. She felt ashamed of the way she felt. But what was the point of telling him? He will just take the opportunity to be rid of me, to finally be happy and get me out of his life. It won't matter. I'm not good enough to be happy anyway.

 

And on and on these horrible feelings of shame and worthlessness spiraled out of control. So great was her shame that something inside her died. It was about that point that she met some new friends. They cared about her. They wanted her to be happy. So what if they wanted to talk about sex or see me naked. They wanted me. She made one of the worst choices from the depths of her pain and resentment. The distraction of being desired was better than the shame that ruled her life. Her husband? He's going to leave me anyway. Everybody does. It's not like I'm good enough to stay with anyway. I'm just going to push him away before he can reject me.

 

Shame. She was ashamed. Her husband found out and now there were just more reason to hate herself. To be completely overwhelmed with a lifetime of shame. And now she had done it. Now he was going to leave for sure. What did it matter? I am worthless. I am I good. There is nothing of me worth loving or being with and I have just proved it once and for all. Except he messed it all up. He didn't leave. He hurt, but he stayed. He yelled a bit but she was used to that. She worries more when he didn't. But he stayed.

 

 

Sorry for the dramatic flair. I think you and your wife have some shame issues QuietDan. We all do to some degree. Do yourself a favor and look into it. While you certainly can't fix those issues in your wife, you may be able to lead her to that desire to emerge from her shame. Best wishes for you and your wife.