False Reconciliation

[csad]

I wrote a lot of response but all my posts now required 24 hours review, which did not happen with my 1st post. Not sure what's going on here

[Mrs. John Adams]

I wrote a lot of response but all my posts now required 24 hours review, which did not happen with my 1st post. Not sure what's going on here

 

obviously..your post are not on a 24 hour review since this one posted.

 

Sometimes posts are moderated...it can take a couple of minutes or hours for a post to show up...depending on how quick the moderators get to it.

 

you can still post your replies....and as long as you are not banned...they will eventually show up.

 

My guess is since you are new...it is your server. You could contact the moderators and ask them. Go to the general forum to the loveshack questions and comments thread and make a post about it.

[BluesPower]

Brother I am so sorry...

 

The posting thing. They are having trouble with the board software and it is a random thing that happens.

 

Questions: Did you tell her to move out or did she choose to move out?

 

You don't think they are still seeing each other? I disagree and for sure they are now.

 

I don't want to add any hurt, but I told you a 3 months ago that she was not remorseful and that you were too weak with this process.

 

You have to let her go, I am sorry and I know that you love her, but she is and has been gone since she started the affair.

 

Why do you think she would not take a poly? And her reason is complete BS. Why do you think the FBI and CIA use them?

 

It is time to end this marriage...

[Southern Sun]

csad - I had an affair with my boss, too.

 

When my affair was discovered initially, I quit right away. In my view, getting a reference from my former boss/MM would be spitting in my BH's face. So I pretty much gave that idea up. However I also gave up working in my former career, so I'm not sure what I would have done had I needed to find another job. I had plenty of friends and connections though...I think I could have made it work.

 

Your situation is different though, in that you sanctioned her continued work there. I can see that it might mean that she doesn't view getting that reference the same way I did. I do think she should have asked you first (this is assuming everything else is above-board...and I'm not sure it is).

 

I mentioned that I quit my job...though I did, the affair re-started. So a D-Day did not end that mess. The way you describe her behavior sounds familiar to me. Her refusal to take a polygraph is a HUGE red flag - either she is continuing the affair or she has hidden details from you about the past that she doesn't want exposed.

 

How I acted in false reconciliation: depressed, angry, confused, defensive, bipolar, marriage counseling, talk of divorce, distant, separation talk, feeling trapped, lots of ups and downs.

 

How I've acted in REAL reconciliation: sometimes still depressed, but steadily getting better; open; warm; concerned; talk of the future; having fun again together; still lots of ups and downs, but seeing a good trend (that has taken a while, admittedly).

 

If your WW is basically acting like she doesn't even have the desire or energy to TRY, then something is off (even if she sometimes swings back your direction). If there is anger and defensiveness there, something is off. If she wants her space, something is off. As Jenkins said, it took me a while also to get my head out of my butt. Even when I was truly in reconciliation, I struggled. I was depressed. I lost my job, I felt kind of aimless, I didn't feel like myself. I didn't have a lot of energy to throw into my R. But I no longer was hiding anything. Sometimes I reacted to my H's anger and wanted to put distance between myself and that...but I didn't constantly plant seeds for a potential separation or divorce. Those are just some things to think about.

 

I can't figure out where your wife is. Hopefully you can.

[reboot]

It's been my experience that the only remorse most cheaters feel is the remorse of getting caught. That's why the reconciliation is usually as one sided as the marriage.

[Mrs. John Adams]

It's been my experience that the only remorse most cheaters feel is the remorse of getting caught. That's why the reconciliation is usually as one sided as the marriage.

 

I totally disagree. Even getting caught does not produce remorse...

 

anger....self pity...sorrow....but not remorse.

 

and the second thing is...not all cheaters get caught...some actually end affairs and confess. Granted...they still do not have remorse...but at least they might be on the path to finding it.

 

and one sided reconciliation...is NOT reconciliation. It is co habitating.

[NTV]

I even told her that even if she had some fond feeling of the OM, it's fine and I totally understand it, we are human and we can't just say that we stop the feeling and then we can stop.

 

 

Hey now, there's no reason you should be sympathetic or understanding of her feelings. She felt like it was okay to cheat on you and lie many many many times to your face. Let's face it. Her feelings suck.

[Friskyone4u]

I guess it's partly paranoid, but the main reason is that OM resigned from the 1st day but since he's an executive the company asked him to stay until April so that they can find a replacement, and now he's still there, so I occasionally check with OMW for his last date. The last information I know is that they now refuse his resignation and he has no intention to leave until August! We do share our marriage progress also. OMW and I are coincidently from the same country (the OM is not).

 

 

To be clear I still see my daughter but not every day. I'm just not ready to not seeing her every day. My wife moved out 2 days ago.

 

 

I will file for D but I won't rush it. Definitely not considering R for now. I'll take the time to focus on myself.

 

 

Funny I asked her to do Polygraph at first but she strongly disagreed. She argued it's not reliable and we can't conclude anything from the output. One example of me could not find a better argument.

 

CSAD

 

Not sure what country you are in but the CIA and NSA in states use polygraphs all the time in pre employment time. And so do many of the largest organizations in the world.

She is refusing because the knows she will get caught lying. So here you are now with her with OM every day until at least August , if that's truthful, and she is still making the decisions .

 

You really believe her word is more reliable than a test used by the most secure agencies in existence.

You need to file and when she passes the test , which is highly unlikely , you can stop the D

[somanymistakes]

CSAD

 

Not sure what country you are in but the CIA and NSA in states use polygraphs all the time in pre employment time. And so do many of the largest organizations in the world.

She is refusing because the knows she will get caught lying. So here you are now with her with OM every day until at least August , if that's truthful, and she is still making the decisions .

 

You really believe her word is more reliable than a test used by the most secure agencies in existence.

You need to file and when she passes the test , which is highly unlikely , you can stop the D

 

The thing about polygraphs, which even the NSA etc will admit, is that it's kind of more psychological than anything.

 

Polygraph examiners administer the tests in different ways, Bransford said, but it’s accepted within the industry that the biggest benefit of a polygraph exam is reading the bodily reactions. An examiner could say to the applicant, “‘Oh you showed a reaction here,'” he explained. “‘You must have some discomfort with this or you must be holding back something.’ And it’s incredible the things that people will then say and admit to. And once they have admitted to things that are problematic, then the agency will use the person’s own words to screen them away from having a job.”

 

They don't exactly ban people based on the poly reading itself, but the polygraph experience freaks people out enough to confess on their own.

 

In which case, just her freaking out and refusing to take it is already a pretty big 'tell'.

 

They certainly aren't magic reliability machines, though. A sufficiently calm and collected person, someone trained to hide their reactions, or someone with the ability to absolutely believe falsehoods, can lie without getting caught. And a super-nervous person will set off the detectors even if they've done nothing wrong.

[Mrs. John Adams]

The thing about polygraphs, which even the NSA etc will admit, is that it's kind of more psychological than anything.

 

 

 

They don't exactly ban people based on the poly reading itself, but the polygraph experience freaks people out enough to confess on their own.

 

In which case, just her freaking out and refusing to take it is already a pretty big 'tell'.

 

They certainly aren't magic reliability machines, though. A sufficiently calm and collected person, someone trained to hide their reactions, or someone with the ability to absolutely believe falsehoods, can lie without getting caught. And a super-nervous person will set off the detectors even if they've done nothing wrong.

 

I agree with this and I would also like to add....

 

If my husband asked me to take a lie detector test...while it might help repair his feelings toward me....i am not sure that it would not damage my feelings toward him. There has to be some element of trust in each other...even though "trust" has been destroyed.

 

An awful lot of reconciliation makes no sense....because there are just no guarantees that the relationship can survive. But you are dealing with two damaged souls here...who have to now look to each other and are hoping that they are making the right decision.

 

I guess what i am trying to say is...I was also emotionally fragile...and had he demanded a lie detector test...even though i was telling the truth...it might have caused me to bolt and run.

 

I see this lie detector thing thrown out all the time and while i do understand why....sometimes I think maybe it is not necessary or is not the right step to take. In other words..there is no one size fits all here. I needed John to beleive me...and John NEEDED to beleive me and had he thought i was lying...I think he would have ended it.

 

John embraced me and would a lie detector test have alienated me? I dont know. But it is something to maybe consider.

[csad]

Brother I am so sorry...

 

The posting thing. They are having trouble with the board software and it is a random thing that happens.

 

Questions: Did you tell her to move out or did she choose to move out?

 

You don't think they are still seeing each other? I disagree and for sure they are now.

 

I don't want to add any hurt, but I told you a 3 months ago that she was not remorseful and that you were too weak with this process.

 

You have to let her go, I am sorry and I know that you love her, but she is and has been gone since she started the affair.

 

Why do you think she would not take a poly? And her reason is complete BS. Why do you think the FBI and CIA use them?

 

It is time to end this marriage...

 

I take the blame Blues. I guess it's harder to make right decision when you are in the mess. I just thought that everyone's situation is different and that being weak is crying and begging her to stay (which I am not). My mistake is falling for R when it's not 100% ready.

 

To your questions: I asked her to move out, again she resisted at first because it's her house too and her mom is here for a visit. But now they are all out. I don't know if they are still seeing each other and I don't want to spend time worrying about it anymore. However, let's be noted that had the OM didn't tell his wife about the reference thing, I wouldn't know.

 

The poly thing, please read my response above, it's finally get published. I guess the issue comes up when I do multiple quotes, so I'll just quote each of you in response for now.

[csad]

Hey now, there's no reason you should be sympathetic or understanding of her feelings. She felt like it was okay to cheat on you and lie many many many times to your face. Let's face it. Her feelings suck.

 

I disagree here. This is not sympathetic but fact. Do you believe them if they say they now have NO feeling at all toward OM right after D-Day? Feeling disappears gradually not all of the sudden. The whole point is to build the base for openness here so that she's not scared of letting me know anything sensitive.

[csad]

CSAD

 

Not sure what country you are in but the CIA and NSA in states use polygraphs all the time in pre employment time. And so do many of the largest organizations in the world.

She is refusing because the knows she will get caught lying. So here you are now with her with OM every day until at least August , if that's truthful, and she is still making the decisions .

 

You really believe her word is more reliable than a test used by the most secure agencies in existence.

You need to file and when she passes the test , which is highly unlikely , you can stop the D

I live in the US for sure. It's not about I believe her words more than a Poly test, but at the time I had no better argument when she refused to take the test. Do I trust her if the test says she's totally honest?

 

In the end I think whatever argument she made and however right they can be, they all built up to make me feel like she's not 100% into it. The fact that she still thinks she can make decision says it all. Sure she has the whole right to make decision but not if she intends to reconcile. I was just unhappy and couldn't get out of the mess. I'm better now!

[Mrs. John Adams]

I disagree here. This is not sympathetic but fact. Do you believe them if they say they now have NO feeling at all toward OM right after D-Day? Feeling disappears gradually not all of the sudden. The whole point is to build the base for openness here so that she's not scared of letting me know anything sensitive.

 

It depends a lot on the wayward and the om...

we don't know what they felt for each other during the affair... we certainly don't know what they feel afterward.

 

So we cannot presume how fast or how slow those "feeling" change.

[Mr. Lucky]

I don't blame myself for making the attempt (and I don't think you should either) but it didn't work.

 

I'll go a step beyond this and say, with kids involved, I'd never have forgiven myself if I didn't try.

 

But if you're conducting a straw poll, mine didn't work out either...

 

Mr. Lucky

[csad]

Another story here. About 2 weeks ago I found on her phone a message sent from a common friend of them just checking how they were doing (he didn't know about the affair apparently). So I called the guy, told him about the affair and politely asked him not being the middle bird between them two. Later that night I told my wife what I did. She got really upset, called me being crazy, cried that that guy was the only friend she got left at the company, blamed me for what I did as revenge and punishment just to satisfy myself. All that kind of stuffs. I told her I'll do whatever I need to do to protect myself and my family from further pain, and she should be glad that I was open to her. So you guys are all right, she's still very defensive.

 

Anyway, I'm just pouring out here so you can see the mess I was in when I fell too quickly on R. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess but again when I was there it's hard to get out.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Another story here. About 2 weeks ago I found on her phone a message sent from a common friend of them just checking how they were doing (he didn't know about the affair apparently). So I called the guy, told him about the affair and politely asked him not being the middle bird between them two. Later that night I told my wife what I did. She got really upset, called me being crazy, cried that that guy was the only friend she got left at the company, blamed me for what I did as revenge and punishment just to satisfy myself. All that kind of stuffs. I told her I'll do whatever I need to do to protect myself and my family from further pain, and she should be glad that I was open to her. So you guys are all right, she's still very defensive.

 

Anyway, I'm just pouring out here so you can see the mess I was in when I fell too quickly on R. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess but again when I was there it's hard to get out.

 

Yeah I would say divorce her and be done...

[csad]

Regarding the job search, until 2 days ago she was pretty active and got multiple onsite interviews already. We are lucky to live in an area where the number of opportunities are limitless. Still, she's cherry picking for ones that pay better than her current job. However, it's worth to note that she only started looking for jobs in Aprile, 2 months from D-Day, after she got her bonus and got rejected for a pre-promised promotion, with me pushing. Even when she made progress, I still feel somewhat unhappy with the feeling she did it because I pushed her not because she decided by herself. When we talked about this she argued again that I want it my way at my pace rather than letting her working on it by herself at her pace, and I need to be patient. Give it time, that's what she said! At the same time she constantly asks me to show appreciation for her effort!

 

Funny thing about our marriage counselor. She was trying to satisfy both of us rather than focusing on the issue itself. One time we met and I told the counselor that my wife still works in the same building with the OM, she told my wife "you should leave asap". My wife told her that she wants to stay for her bonus, the counselor said "marriage is more important", but then she asked how much was the bonus. When my wife said it's about 20K (before tax) then the counselor said, well 20K is a big amount, you can stay but you have to set boundary. I was just speechless!

Edited May 3, 2017 by csad

[Bryanp]

You just a person by their actions and not by their words and her actions speak volumes. You deserve better.

[Southern Sun]

Another story here. About 2 weeks ago I found on her phone a message sent from a common friend of them just checking how they were doing (he didn't know about the affair apparently). So I called the guy, told him about the affair and politely asked him not being the middle bird between them two. Later that night I told my wife what I did. She got really upset, called me being crazy, cried that that guy was the only friend she got left at the company, blamed me for what I did as revenge and punishment just to satisfy myself. All that kind of stuffs. I told her I'll do whatever I need to do to protect myself and my family from further pain, and she should be glad that I was open to her. So you guys are all right, she's still very defensive.

 

Anyway, I'm just pouring out here so you can see the mess I was in when I fell too quickly on R. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess but again when I was there it's hard to get out.

 

My BH has told multiple people, as needed, about the affair. My reaction (in reconciliation) is quiet acceptance, maybe with some sadness and embarrassment. But that's called consequences.

 

Your wife has apparently not had to suffer much exposure? It seems as if she's not suffering many consequences at all.

[csad]

My BH has told multiple people, as needed, about the affair. My reaction (in reconciliation) is quiet acceptance, maybe with some sadness and embarrassment. But that's called consequences.

 

Your wife has apparently not had to suffer much exposure? It seems as if she's not suffering many consequences at all.

 

She thinks those are the consequences I want to put on her rather than what she deserves. And like I said, there's no standard written in stone about this so I couldn't argue!

[Mrs. John Adams]

I guess it depends on what you look at as consequences. You mean put in shackles and put on public dispaly to be humiliated by those who think they are so much better than her?

 

Or you mean losing her dignity, and self respect and her family?

 

There are always consequences to bad choices....and I am quite certain she too will pay the price.

 

infidelity costs.....and no one wins

[csad]

I guess it depends on what you look at as consequences. You mean put in shackles and put on public dispaly to be humiliated by those who think they are so much better than her?

 

Or you mean losing her dignity, and self respect and her family?

 

There are always consequences to bad choices....and I am quite certain she too will pay the price.

 

infidelity costs.....and no one wins

 

To be clear I did not expose to any of her friends. Only the parents, the company and that common friend know. Even my brother and her brother don't know this. All I do is to protect myself, not to humiliate her. The point here is that she doesn't have a mindset of accepting consequences.

[NTV]

So what's your plan now?

[aileD]

Well just in general (and I don't think applies to you but something to think about) is that if you are truly trying to reconcile then You have to let go of forcing consequences or shame or other stuff like that on her. You're supposed to be starting fresh, working through things and shame is a big thing for the WS to have to work though with the BS.

 

But. For you, you can't even get there because she is continuing the affair. Even if it was minimal contact, for a good reason.....she initiated contact and she did not let you know. Plus I'm sure there's 20 other people that could have given her a recommendation.

 

You haven't even started to R yet if you can't get past this point.