When does it go from innocent to something more?

[Overtaxed]

Glad to see the OP back, did you confront? If not, you need to do it right now (and if you already did, apologies for missing it).

 

I think the other men here will agree, what she's doing is both a test (see if you're willing to fight for her) and a lack of respect for the bounds of marriage. You NEED to get on this today, or, sadly, someone else is going to be on her.

 

This is as serious as it gets before a PA starts. Code red, this needs to be handled immediately. Keep posting, a lot of good posters here will help you through this, if you confront immediately, this will be a memory that disappears in a few months and you'll be happily married. If you wait another few weeks, you'll be back here with the scars of having your wife have a PA with another man, and it'll take you years to get over it. Even if you want to walk away from your W, confront before the PA starts, you have no idea how that will haunt you and, trust me, from someone who's wife had a PA, I'd give ANYTHING to be where your sitting right now. I think every other poster on here who's spouse has had a PA would say the same thing, if only I could turn back the clock until before it went physical. You won't have mind movies about them saying inappropriate things, you will have them, in spades, when she sleeps with this guy.

[wmacbride]

OK, let me clarify something. He didn't use the F word. However he is now a physical therapist and says things like he would like to give her body some physical attention, and other blatantly sexually suggestive things. Really, same difference to me.

 

My plan is to not expose the fact that I can access her facebook messenger so I can keep an eye. Coming out and saying I was spying on her will create a negative atmosphere off the bat.

 

I will bring it up innocently, which is easy to do since we have such open communication. We talk about sex, love, fidelity etc., all the time, so it will be easy to work it in. I will tell her my boundaries in that context in clear terms.

 

If I tell her I don't want her to communicate with him and she continues, I will escalate.

 

I really don't think she realizes the slippery slop nature of these kind of communications, even if her intentions are innocent (his aren't).

 

I am profoundly in love with the women, so I just don't want to take any chances of something going wrong.

 

I may be way out here, and please forgive me if I am, but I don't think a spouse should be put int he position where they feel they have to spy on and police his or her spouse.

 

Your own words indicate her boundaries are really weak. Most married women I know can sense when polite and innocent flattery crosses the line into something more sexual, and we shut it down. Your wife either doesn't realize what he's doing, or she does and simply doesn't care because she likes it. She wants it and is allowing it to happen, even seeks it out with this guy. If she was offended by what he said, she'd at least tell him to stop or not reply to him at all. She has chosen not to do that.

 

If she's vulnerable to this guy, she could be vulnerable to anyone. I'm not saying anything about her character, etc., other than she has poor boundaries, and that's the most important piece here. If she shores those up, you won't find yourself in this position again.

 

Don't play games about it or engage in any other cloak and dagger style stuff. Be honest, be upfront and tell her you are uncomfortable with their friendship. You are her husband , just as she is your wife, and you both have every right to come to a consensus together about the parameters and conditions of your relationship. If you are already good at communicating with one another, then keep it up and talk to her. Don't accuse her and take ownership of your feelings.

[wmacbride]

Pal, it's already way past wrong. You are going to get walked on if you don't stand up for yourself

 

This is very true.

 

Please, forget the sneaking and monitoring. Who the frick has time for all that crap. Are you going to sneak on her social media every day for the rest of your life to see what they are up to? Just talk to her.

 

If it's all innocent on her part and you explain why you are worried, she may very well understand and be fine with it. If she starts getting her back up about privacy and other deflections, you'll know that the word "platonic" will NOT describe their relationship.

[Try]

About 7 or 8 years ago, a coworker was seriously hitting on my wife, constantly texting her, and taking her out at lunch break and trying to seduce her. At the time she told me about it and just said that she had thrown cold water on it and nothing had ever come of it.

 

Recently while checking my wife's facebook messenger, I see she found him and reconnected with him a few months back and has been sending messages back and forth. He constantly says how much he would like to f*** her, and how beautiful she is, and what all he would do to her body etc. She just replies things like, oh my husband would not be happy about that, or just with a lol or a giggle. He has stated he would like to meet up with her again when he is in town (he is now living in a different state).

Even though you may have not seen a message where he used the F word, the other man (OM) has made his intentions known to your wife for years, and she has not only not cut contact with him, but instead has looked to recently "reconnected with him". Her telling the OM that her "husband would not be happy about that" is a clear acknowledgement by her to the OM that she knows his intentions are sexual, and that she knows that their relationship is inappropriate and wrong.

 

A person has either a platonic relationship with someone or a sexual one. For it to be a platonic relationship there needs to be no sexual intent by either party toward the other. Since by definition your wife's relationship with this OM is not platonic, they are more than just friends. If you look up the term emotional affair (EA), you will see that your wife is in one, and that being in an EA is cheating. You have enough evidence to demand that she cut off all contact with the OM for life, and that she agree to mutual full transparency (which includes both of you sharing all passwords) without complaint. Tell her that she needs to immediately pick either you or the OM, and that if she needs to think about it that her relationship with the OM has gone too far for you to want to stay in the marriage as it should not even be close. Since she may want to call our bluff or dismiss your concerns like she has in the past, you must be prepared to take immediate action if she does not immediately agree.

[DKT3]

This is not even on the edge of being okay. You can't rationalize it at all.

 

My husband would probably kick my butt out of the house (but I'm a fWW). Seriously, it's unacceptable. Wayward or not, it's HUGE threat to the marriage and giant dis to you. Can you imagine telling another woman what you want to do to her body? Communicating a few times a week? Or accepting those types of messages from another woman...on an ongoing basis?

 

I wouldn't hesitate to tell her you saw her FB messages. Who cares how you saw them. You don't even have to tell her how. Just say, I saw them and I'm very bothered. You're crossing a line and I hope you realize it. Let's talk about how to handle.

 

I hope she agrees with you and you can shut it down together.

 

I agree with you 100%. The problem is too often the BS fears confrontation of possible infidelity. Maybe if I confronted her and I was wrong would she be upset and go to him? More Important, fear of the worst.

 

OP, how can you be sure this hasn't continued from 8 years ago?

 

I personally don't think your wife is cheating emotionally or physically, I think she just gets off knowing this guy wants her, seems that the contact is her fishing for the desire he has for her.....still very dangerous

[Try]

OP, how can you be sure this hasn't continued from 8 years ago?

 

I personally don't think your wife is cheating emotionally or physically, I think she just gets off knowing this guy wants her, seems that the contact is her fishing for the desire he has for her.....still very dangerous

You are contradicting yourself in the same sentence. If as you say the wife "gets off knowing this guy wants her", and if as you say she is "fishing for the desire he has for her", then the other man (OM) is filling an emotional need of the wife, and that means that she is in fact "cheating emotionally" with the OM. Edited May 5, 2017 by Try

[DKT3]

You are contradicting yourself in the same sentence. If as you say the wife "gets off knowing this guy wants her", and if as you say she is "fishing for the desire he has for her", then the other man (OM) is filling an emotional need of the wife, and that means that she is in fact "cheating emotionally" with the OM.

 

No, not necessarily. Example, many moons ago I told a lady I was working with that she looked nice in a purple sweater. I would never see her around the office unless she was wearing the purple sweater. Translation, she was fishing for me to compliment her for looking nice in the sweater. She wasn't placing any value in me emotionally, just my compliments.

[William]

Moderator bump due to an auto-moderated posting update from the thread starter, and because I like reading threads in the Infidelity forum

[JuneL]

Am I reading this right? Your wife has crossed boundaries big time, and you are still giving her all sorts of excuses and feeling bad about reading her fb messages? Just wow!

 

Wow, threads really take on a life of their own here:D

 

Anyways just wanted to update. When I broached the subject in a round-about way, she admitted right away that she had been in contact with him again. At first she denied that he was saying anything sexual, but later admitted he was. She also said it was him who contacted her, which is not true, However, I re-read her responses, and she mostly did make it clear she was happily married and that he was only a friend to her. The whole friend thing is the biggest cold shower a woman can give to a man, as we all know.

 

Overall I was happy with her responses, and she said she blocked him on facebook.

 

There was a tiny bit of peripheral dishonesty, but I was dishonest about how I found out about it, so I can't hold her to an impossible standard.

 

She has been a wonderful wife over the years. She completely turned my life around in every way. My worry has always been her sex drive. Literally, the only foreplay she needs is taking her clothes off, and she can orgasm every few minutes indefinitely. Maybe 1% of woman are like that? Who knows, but it is obviously rare.

 

If she was a drinker, I think for sure he would have got to her when they were working closely together.

 

Anyways, it looks good for now.

 

Having said that, do you think it is normal for a woman to guard her phone like a Rottweiler? When she was showing me something on her phone, she had an iron grip on it when I tried to pull it closer to have a better look. I might just sneak a look at her texts when I can, not that I don't trust her, but verifying things can just make you relax and forget about stuff.

[Zona]

Chest thumping won't work with a woman like her. She is a medical doctor, and thus a highly educated, independent and intelligent woman who needs my financial support like a fish needs a bicycle.

 

I feel good about things now. No point getting totally worked into a lather because she tried to contact a colleague she knew 8 years ago from work to say hi and he started up his pig-like behavior again. As I mentioned in my delayed post, she made it clear (in messages she thought I would never read) that she viewed him as a friend only. That put me at ease.

 

I did, however, discuss with her that this is exactly how workplace flings start and she agreed to shut him down. Just one slip up in how she words a response and it could unlock a door to doom. The excitement and thrill can shut your brain down, and with her sexual nature.... hate to think about how the experience would change her. Someone who can experience as much pleasure from routine married sex would have her mind blown in that kind of situation. Scary to think about.

 

What else could I expect of her? She did everything right so I will just relax about it. I consider it nipped in the bud.

[Zona]

Just tried to do another post which was delayed... oh well. Just keep an eye out for it.

[Try]

No, not necessarily. Example, many moons ago I told a lady I was working with that she looked nice in a purple sweater. I would never see her around the office unless she was wearing the purple sweater. Translation, she was fishing for me to compliment her for looking nice in the sweater. She wasn't placing any value in me emotionally, just my compliments.

To be clear, do you really think that telling a coworker "that she looked nice in a purple sweater" is the same thing as repeatedly telling an ex-coworker that you want to have sex with her? Sorry but I think that most people would not agree with you on this.

[KatieLaw]

I have a FB friend who openly flirts with me but I told H, and one night we sat side-by-side and read our entire thread of conversations. He wasn't crazy about it but trusts me.

 

OTOH, a long-time friend of ours told me how pretty I am, and that he's attracted to me and gave me a peck on the mouth as he scooched past me. I jumped up and told my H and our friend's wife.

 

H flew into action and confronted our friend in a major way. Another time, a cabbie came onto me, gave me his card, and told me to call him if I needed a ride, or just to talk.

 

H called him and read him the riot act. I don't think I'm a troublemaker but both these incidences made me feel secure.

 

I'm concerned about your wife and her phone. I really don't think that's normal behavior. Sorry.

[reboot]

Having said that, do you think it is normal for a woman to guard her phone like a Rottweiler? When she was showing me something on her phone, she had an iron grip on it when I tried to pull it closer to have a better look. I might just sneak a look at her texts when I can, not that I don't trust her, but verifying things can just make you relax and forget about stuff.

 

That's as red a flag as there is, sorry.

[dichotomy]

wouldn't it make much more sense to tell your wife you disapprove and stop it because you love her and want her....rather than hoping she continues so you can "catch" her and divorce her?

 

If she wants to cheat she will regardless...you are right. But what if by telling her you love her and this has hurt you...it stops everything in its tracks and an affair is averted?

 

Sometimes I think it is better to stop things before they go too far and everyone is sorry. If she is already "too involved" no matter what you say she will continue....but what if ?

 

I could be wrong....but what if i am not. You know....sometimes I think we just need to be honest with our spouse and say...you know hon...I realy dont like that you are having this conversation with him...and i really love you and i dont want anyone to take you away from me. What can it hurt?

 

I get your view.

 

But I think its better to know what kind of person your married to. Its not about catching her its about knowing who she is.

 

If she IS a good faithful partner he should not have to say ANYTHING to prevent her from cheating. She just wont cheat.

 

But if he stops her now - he will always think "if I did not catch her early she would have- who am I married to ?" If he waits another few months and watches and nothing else happens - well he KNOWS then

 

Again just my view. I don understand honesty is best and being upfront is best...but she kind of has a toe in the water.

Edited May 5, 2017 by dichotomy

[MickeyBill]

About the only time that I have felt the need to "iron grip" my phone was when I was showing my sister some pix of the motorcycle I was going to buy and I realized that that a couple days earlier my then GF had sent me some very inappropriate pictures...

 

As many people tend to scroll thru pictures when you show them, I grabbed it from her before she saw how my GF made herself happy when alone...

Those who have nothing to hide will hand you the phone to look at something.

I held onto it...

 

So yes iron grip on the phone is a red flag...

[Friskyone4u]

Chest thumping won't work with a woman like her. She is a medical doctor, and thus a highly educated, independent and intelligent woman who needs my financial support like a fish needs a bicycle.

 

I feel good about things now. No point getting totally worked into a lather because she tried to contact a colleague she knew 8 years ago from work to say hi and he started up his pig-like behavior again. As I mentioned in my delayed post, she made it clear (in messages she thought I would never read) that she viewed him as a friend only. That put me at ease.

 

I did, however, discuss with her that this is exactly how workplace flings start and she agreed to shut him down. Just one slip up in how she words a response and it could unlock a door to doom. The excitement and thrill can shut your brain down, and with her sexual nature.... hate to think about how the experience would change her. Someone who can experience as much pleasure from routine married sex would have her mind blown in that kind of situation. Scary to think about.

 

What else could I expect of her? She did everything right so I will just relax about it. I consider it nipped in the bud.

 

Zona,

 

Why don't you google "signs your wife is cheating" and you will find that guarding her phone is red flag number one.

She reached out to this guy, and you ought to take your head out of the sand and realize that any woman NOT interested at all would have poured ice water on this guys balls in no uncertain terms. SHE DID NOT DO THAT.

 

So now that you are at ease, we'll be here when you find out the new way they are communicating. All you did was alert her so far and she gaslighted you like a pro.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Zona, if you don't mind can you let us know whether you are in the same or greater financial bracket as your wife? Forgive me but I have a great mistrust of the medical profession be it male doctors, female doctors or female nurses. The environment in which they work is conducive to affairs and if, as you say, your wife has a highly charged sexual appetite I wouldn't be betting any dollars on her fidelity. In addition, as others have pointed out, she has breached many boundaries and so, to me the situation looks very bleak. Your own thread title is an indicator that your own spider senses have been alerted and you would be well advised to safeguard your own interests whichever way you see best.

 

If your wife is a doctor are you working in a related field or something completely unrelated? Also, you said that 8 years ago you two were going through a rough time and your sex life dropped to zero. Why did that happen? Was it because she was not interested in sex or was it because you were not interested or was it because both were not interested? Also how is your sex drive as compared to her? Sorry to be impinging on your personal space but it is only because you have mentioned repeatedly, that your wife is highly sexual. It would seem she would need a man who was two steps ahead of her to be able to satisfy her needs. Warm wishes.

[mikeylo]

I see it differently. Duh !

 

She has made it clear that she just sees him as a friend. But the guy is pushing his luck. While he is being aggressive in his approach, your wife seems to have a softer rejection to not rock the boat any further. And he is using her softness to his advantage.

 

But you need to find a way to stop complete communication because if she is naive, he might make his way into your little world without either of you wanting to.

 

I do agree that if someone says ' my spouse wont like that' , it comes across as I personally wouldnt mind but my spouse will. This gives the pursuer to change their strategy to convince you in a deceitful way. The right way is to inform them that you are taken and them asking you itself is disrespectful.

 

The phone thing is tricky ! I sometimes have chats with my son that I wouldnt want my wife to know and vice versa

[wmacbride]

Chest thumping won't work with a woman like her. She is a medical doctor, and thus a highly educated, independent and intelligent woman who needs my financial support like a fish needs a bicycle.

 

I feel good about things now. No point getting totally worked into a lather because she tried to contact a colleague she knew 8 years ago from work to say hi and he started up his pig-like behavior again. As I mentioned in my delayed post, she made it clear (in messages she thought I would never read) that she viewed him as a friend only. That put me at ease.

 

I did, however, discuss with her that this is exactly how workplace flings start and she agreed to shut him down. Just one slip up in how she words a response and it could unlock a door to doom. The excitement and thrill can shut your brain down, and with her sexual nature.... hate to think about how the experience would change her. Someone who can experience as much pleasure from routine married sex would have her mind blown in that kind of situation. Scary to think about.

 

What else could I expect of her? She did everything right so I will just relax about it. I consider it nipped in the bud.

 

Whoa there for a second...

 

A highly educated woman shouldn't need her husband to explain to her when a guy hinting that he wants to sleep with her ( and pretty obvious hints at that). It's pretty hard to swallow that she was somehow unaware of this. At best, she was flattered by, and sought out, his attention. At worst, she is cheating and gaslighting you. ( it's obvious you love her to death, so that wouldn't be hard to do)

 

Also, I get that you appreciate that she is a highly sexual person, but take a step back here for a minute. She is also an adult, and she needs to have boundaries in place so that none of that malarkey ( an I'm sorry, but trying to excuse her behavior by bringing up her sexual side doesn't work) will never even have a chance of taking hold.

 

The goal is for her to be strong enough in herself for this to not even be an issue, as there will be times in the future when she can;t have her sexual needs met right away and she will have to wait. If the first guy who hits on her can cause her to cheat, you have a problem.

 

Again,I'm not saying anything about her as a wife or as a person. She may be a wonderful wife, mom and human being who just happens to have an issue with boundaries. That's not all that unusual, but don't be naive about it.

Edited May 6, 2017 by wmacbride

[usa1ah]

Whoa there for a second...

 

A highly educated woman shouldn't need her husband to explain to her when a guy hinting that he wants to sleep with her ( and pretty obvious hints at that). It's pretty hard to swallow that she was somehow unaware of this. At best, she was flattered by, and sought out, his attention. At worst, she is cheating and gaslighting you. ( it's obvious you love her to death, so that wouldn't be hard to do)

 

Also, I get that you appreciate that she is a highly sexual person, but take a step back here for a minute. She is also an adult, and she needs to have boundaries in place so that none of that malarkey ( an I'm sorry, but trying to excuse her behavior by bringing up her sexual side doesn't work) will never even have a chance of taking hold.

 

The goal is for her to be strong enough in herself for this to not even be an issue, as there will be times in the future when she can;t have her sexual needs met right away and she will have to wait. If the first guy who hits on her can cause her to cheat, you have a problem.

 

Again,I'm not saying anything about her as a wife or as a person. She may be a wonderful wife, mom and human being who just happens to have an issue with boundaries. That's not all that unusual, but don't be naive about it.

 

This is it. She knows very well what she was doing. Just like she did when they worked together. You need to step back and look at this from the outside like us. Your loving devoted wife has cheated on you. If she is as high drive as you say, she was getting it somewhere else when it wasn't with you.

[QuietDan]

Hi, I am a 44 year old man who has been married for 19 years....

My wife and I have a good marriage overall, although when our kids were little, we didn't have much of a sex life. Things have improved greatly over the last couple of years in that regard.

 

A sudden or unexplained change in sex drive or sexual behavior is one of the more common indicator that a spouse may be cheating or having an affair. If it suddenly noticeable increased about 2 years ago, you may need expand your investigation. As mentioned by others earlier, there are other means to communicate than what you have found so far.

 

20 years of marriage.... seems to have a lot in common with year No.7. Year No. 14 does come up from time to time. Just not as often as year 7 and year 20. Oh... I might mention... give or take a couple of years.... depending on the personalities of the principal people involve in the marriage.

[Titanll]

Good lord, is OP divorced yet?

[Southern Sun]

Chest thumping won't work with a woman like her. She is a medical doctor, and thus a highly educated, independent and intelligent woman who needs my financial support like a fish needs a bicycle.

 

I feel good about things now. No point getting totally worked into a lather because she tried to contact a colleague she knew 8 years ago from work to say hi and he started up his pig-like behavior again. As I mentioned in my delayed post, she made it clear (in messages she thought I would never read) that she viewed him as a friend only. That put me at ease.

 

I did, however, discuss with her that this is exactly how workplace flings start and she agreed to shut him down. Just one slip up in how she words a response and it could unlock a door to doom. The excitement and thrill can shut your brain down, and with her sexual nature.... hate to think about how the experience would change her. Someone who can experience as much pleasure from routine married sex would have her mind blown in that kind of situation. Scary to think about.

 

What else could I expect of her? She did everything right so I will just relax about it. I consider it nipped in the bud.

 

If she really was guarding her phone "like a rottweiller", it was because something was on there that she didn't want you to see.

 

It could have been that the conversations were simply more flirtatious than she wanted you to know. It could be that there were pics exchanged. It could be that she talked about him with a friend. It could be that they were texting or talking on the phone or any number of things. But something was there that she didn't tell you about and did not WANT to tell you about.

 

As another poster said, you're not really giving her proper adult credit. She is obviously a smart woman...an MD as you said. She knows exactly what she's doing. She didn't need to be educated by you that her chats with this dude were wrong...especially considering they were wrong 8 years ago too. And all this talk about how driven she is sexually almost makes me think you believe she has some sort of excuse that the rest of us don't have to act that way. Or that she would be particularly affected by the sex act. I mean, come on.

 

Just...check her phone.

[Mr. Lucky]

My worry has always been her sex drive. Literally, the only foreplay she needs is taking her clothes off, and she can orgasm every few minutes indefinitely. Maybe 1% of woman are like that? Who knows, but it is obviously rare.

 

Zona, what would be your wife's reaction if you told her you acted inappropriately or cheated because your sex drive is too high?

 

I'd guess she wouldn't buy it ...

 

Mr. Lucky