Mary3 Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 I personally dont want a *nicey nice* guy who lacks a backbone and placates me with words he thinks I want to hear. I think a nicer mixture of some jerk-i-ness is in order but I'd rather not call them total jerks but like some of the jerk-y-like traits they possess. Someone who speaks truthfully and somewhat bluntly right at the moment ( not 7 hours later after harborning anger ) is important. Not letting me have everything my way and bowing down like an eager puppy makes me feel like I am dealing with someone who has a sense of his own identity and is not afraid to disagree without fearing a blowout. I do like the romantic gestures and the soft touches and the flowers but I kind of like the man who walks into a room and does not * have * be nice to everyone with a plastic smile on his face. Makes me think I am dating a clown. A genuine smile on the other hand is refreshing and there is a difference between the teeth bearing gesture... I think women need a mix of bad boy and good boy but nobody wants a total selfish jerk nor do they want an obedient puppy. If I want a puppy I will go to a pet store Link to post Share on other sites
Craig Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Interesting post but why does a guy have to be a "nice guy", a "jerk" or a combination of the two? At this point in my life I'm enjoying being an honest to goodness good guy with a backbone. If someone doesn't accept that I can be nice AND be my own person complete with honesty, respect, compassion, boundaries, limitations, candor and etc. then f*ck them, they can go find someone else to be disfunctional with. Link to post Share on other sites
loony Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 I find all this talk about jerks and nice guys a little bit tiresome now. Why is it that people always have problems with semantics when they talk about jerks and nice guys? It's not understandable why a sane person would say: "Hey, you know what, I'd like my boyfriend to be a little bit like a, um, jerk." Because if you translate it, it means: "I'd love to see him screw me over, cheat on me, disrespects me, play with my feelings, beat me up, abuse me emotionally, put me down, make me jealous on purpose, let me down when I need him the most and do many more exciting jerk things to me. Not too much though, just a tiny little bit." Jerks is a negatively connotated term, there's nothing positive about it. If you associate self-confidence, self-respect, backbone, standing up for oneself and any other positive trait with a jerk you're obviously not aware that there are some well-balanced decent people out there whom I would not call jerks in a life-time. Also I don't understand the masses of guys who claim they're such nice guys. "Nice guy" is also a term that some people use very losely. Unfortunately some are not nice at all when they don't get what they want. Emotional blackmailing is not ok, not keeping your distance and smothering people is not ok, getting touchy when your love interest is not doing what you want is not ok, being a wimp is not ok, calling a girl stuckup, because she's not interested in you is also not ok. And just because you're nice person doesn't mean that you're the perfect match for me, that you meet all my needs, that because you like me I have to like you back the same way. Actually there are a couple of other guys who also would like to date me -- what do you think should I do? Being nice has absolutely nothing to do with being a doormat and a pushover, to smother someone with niceness till they give in. I think that the words you use to describe the world shape the way you see it. They are also a reflection of yourself. If I see someone misuse these terms I suspect that their view on the world must be also distorted. Women who say they want a bit of a jerk are unconsciously looking for unhealthy relationships and wouldn't recognize a stable guy from a closeup. Men who blame their lack of a girlfriend on being too nice also have a false image of themselves, they have no clue what they want otherwise they would understand what women want or people in general. They don't recognize that their lack of self-confidence is a turn-off even though they would never run after a woman whom they had recognized as insecure. Being nice is not the problem, being clingy yes. Link to post Share on other sites
lindya Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Originally posted by loony Also I don't understand the masses of guys who claim they're such nice guys. "Nice guy" is also a term that some people use very losely. Unfortunately some are not nice at all when they don't get what they want. Emotional blackmailing is not ok, not keeping your distance and smothering people is not ok, getting touchy when your love interest is not doing what you want is not ok, being a wimp is not ok, calling a girl stuckup, because she's not interested in you is also not ok. Agreed. What gets under my skin is the ubiquitous "All women are bitches so I'm going to stop being Mr Nice Guy" attitude. The culprits show absolutely no awareness of the truth that is so obvious to everyone else; that anyone who comes out with that sort of trash was never anything approximating nice - if nice means being a decent, genuine and consistent individual." For that type, all "I'm going to stop being Mr Nice" means, as you suggest, is "I'm going to stop trying to emotionally manipulate women by provoking their pity/sympathy and trying to guilt-trip them into going out with me. From now on I'm going to start projecting all that insecurity and neediness onto others. Specifically women. I'm going to treat my next girlfriend like the loser that, deep down, I feel myself to be. In fact I won't call her my girlfriend ...I'll just call her 'that bit I screw from time to time. Yay for me!'" It's nothing more than shifting from a nasty, passive-aggressive little ploy to a more blatantly aggressive one. Nothing "nice" about either of them. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Originally posted by Craig Interesting post but why does a guy have to be a "nice guy", a "jerk" or a combination of the two? well CRAIG...for the same reason a woman is either ugly or good looking or in between Link to post Share on other sites
A Fly onThe Wall Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Right at this moment I'm neither a nice guy or a jerk.. But I can change at anytime.. Can't we all.. Link to post Share on other sites
ReluctantRomeo Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Originally posted by lindya It's nothing more than shifting from a nasty, passive-aggressive little ploy to a more blatantly aggressive one. Nothing "nice" about either of them. Good insight, Lindya and Loony... Link to post Share on other sites
loony Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale well CRAIG...for the same reason a woman is either ugly or good looking or in between Jerks, good guys and "nice" guys are not on the same scale and you won't find jerks and "nice" guys on the opposing ends. It's just the same insecurities expressed differently, the same tiresome nonsense in different disguises. Link to post Share on other sites
Outcast Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 But, on the plus side, if you hear somebody speaking about the world in terms of 'jerks' and 'nice guys' you see a certain cognitive process at work and you know that such a person is definitely not a prospect for you So let's continue to hear it, women and men. Talk about 'jerks' and 'nice guys'. I need to know who to avoid Link to post Share on other sites
lindya Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 So in summary of the male contributors - and based on postal impressions - RR and Craig are nice guys (as in having a healthy level of liking and respect for women), Fly likes to fly with the wind, but seems generally nice too. Splashing on some eau de mysogynie amicale for the ladeez, Alpha ambles happily into the jerk category Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Originally posted by lindya Splashing on some eau de mysogynie amicale for the ladeez, Alpha ambles happily into the jerk category Link to post Share on other sites
lindya Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale You can use it as your new signature if you like Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Originally posted by lindya You can use it as your new signature if you like no thanx, I like the sig I have now.... Link to post Share on other sites
Marshbear Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 I personally don't want a *nicey nice* guy who lacks a backbone and placates me with words he thinks I want to hear. I think a nicer mixture of some jerk-i-ness is in order but I'd rather not call them total jerks but like some of the jerk-y-like traits they possess. These statements say, to me, that as a women you do not know want you want. You are all over the board in regards to what traits in a man you like. You don't want a guy who talks nice to you. You want a guy who will not take any sh*t off of you. You sound like you want a guy who is mean to others but nice to you. You think obedience is a bad trait in a man ( to soft, I guess ) and want that little bit of bad-boy. I don't think that any man is 100% nice nor 100% jerk ( no, not even you Alpha ). They are a little bit of both. In your case I think you lean more to the jerk guy than the nice guy. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Originally posted by Marshbear These statements say, to me, that as a women you do not know want you want. You are all over the board in regards to what traits in a man you like. most females want everything M.B. this is what they want: - guy who is "hot" but doesn't cheat - guy who is "nice" and a "jerk" at the same time - guy who makes lots of money but is down to earth and humble - guy who dresses nicely but not better than her - guy who can wear jeans and a tux - guy who's attentive to her but totally non-attentive to other women - guy who's smart but not a nerd - guy who's not too skinny or too fat - guy who drinks but is not an alcoholic - guy who cooks, cleans, takes care of the kids and has a $300,000 salary they want it all MB....all! Link to post Share on other sites
Craig Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Originally posted by loony It's just the same insecurities expressed differently, the same tiresome nonsense in different disguises. Genius! Link to post Share on other sites
lindya Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale most females want everything M.B. this is what they want: - guy who is "hot" but doesn't cheat - guy who is "nice" and a "jerk" at the same time - guy who makes lots of money but is down to earth and humble - guy who dresses nicely but not better than her - guy who can wear jeans and a tux - guy who's attentive to her but totally non-attentive to other women - guy who's smart but not a nerd - guy who's not too skinny or too fat - guy who drinks but is not an alcoholic - guy who cooks, cleans, takes care of the kids and has a $300,000 salary they want it all MB....all! Minus numbers 2 and 3, non-attentive to other women (which could equate with being rude in social situations), and the final one on your list...yes, that seems reasonable. It also seems like quite a short list compared to the one that would probably be expected in return. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 - guy who is "nice" and a "jerk" at the same time Yes, but a "respectful" jerk. Not some man who is going to call you wench and beyotch. - guy who cooks, cleans, takes care of the kids and has a $300,000 salary Not all are after that salary! But I'll take the guy who cooks and cleans! Hey, I have that guy already! Well, he cleans but doesn't cook. Link to post Share on other sites
ThumbingMyWay Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 - guy who is "hot" but doesn't cheat I dont think I am hot....been labled cute or good looking. AND I DONT CHEAT - guy who is "nice" and a "jerk" at the same time I am nice 90% of the time....and a jerk when i am crabby - guy who makes lots of money but is down to earth and humble I dont make alot but I am D2E and VERY humble - guy who dresses nicely but not better than her I am not trendy, but nor do i dress like a slob. - guy who can wear jeans and a tux I can do this - guy who's attentive to her but totally non-attentive to other women I look...we all do... - guy who's smart but not a nerd Thats me - guy who's not too skinny or too fat Me again.... - guy who drinks but is not an alcoholic ahh....yep....me too - guy who cooks, cleans, takes care of the kids and has a $300,000 salary I cook, clean, take the kids ALOT....but I only make 1/6th of this salary.... So what does this make me? Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Originally posted by ThumbingMyWay So what does this make me? ahh...normal? my point was that women want everything under the sun all wrapped up in one guy. which we all know is impossible. Link to post Share on other sites
New_Wife Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Your list is much to complicated for the simple likes of me. Here's mine (and it defines the Mister, FYI) 1. 98.6 degrees 2. Upright, all teeth & major appendages in working order 3. Employment is mandatory - type and salary not specific. 4. Makes me laugh more often than he makes me cry 5. Great in bed 6. Gives good hugs. 7. No violent criminal records or inferiority complexes that dictate skirt chasing. Yeah, that's pretty much it. I love the way The Mister looks, but he's not everybody's classic Hottie. No matter, he's mine. I love the way his eyes crinkle when he smiles, or the way his smile is slightly crooked - the fact that he has a few mutant eybrow hairs that grow endlessly and his funny bowlegged walk. I think overall, like men, mostly women just want someone they feel "gets" them. All of this other stuff is just fluff for your early 20's when you're still kinda dumb. Link to post Share on other sites
A Fly onThe Wall Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Originally posted by New_Wife 1. 98.6 degrees Link to post Share on other sites
d'Arthez Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Originally posted by Mary3 I personally dont want a *nicey nice* guy who lacks a backbone and placates me with words he thinks I want to hear. Enter human being, of the male sex. Exit lack of genuineness. Someone who speaks truthfully and somewhat bluntly right at the moment ( not 7 hours later after harborning anger ) is important. Enter integrity, enter arrogance. Enter high wisdom, for the required witticisms, and skill needed to talk about the issue in a light-hearted manner. As you don't want to be upset unnecessarily. Not letting me have everything my way and bowing down like an eager puppy makes me feel like I am dealing with someone who has a sense of his own identity and is not afraid to disagree without fearing a blowout. Enter self-esteem and self-confidence. I do like the romantic gestures and the soft touches and the flowers but I kind of like the man who walks into a room and does not * have * be nice to everyone with a plastic smile on his face. Exit charisma, exit butt-kissing (dents career-prospects though). If you lack charisma, butt-kissing is an important skill. Enter manners. Makes me think I am dating a clown. Exit circus-artists. A genuine smile on the other hand is refreshing and there is a difference between the teeth bearing gesture... Exit Alphas, enter charisma. Obviously there is a contradiction here (as you don't want a charismatic man, yet you want a charismatic man). I think women need a mix of bad boy and good boy but nobody wants a total selfish jerk nor do they want an obedient puppy. Obedient puppies are great for gold-diggers. And supposedly jerks are great for high school, and perhaps even college . I am afraid there is a short-supply of men like that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mary3 Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 Okay I got alot on that one. Which sounds better : You girlfriend gets a steak in a restauraunt and its too rare and you do the following : Your girlfriend is going to call the waitress over and ask it be cooked correctly. You: a ) Say " Oh my God , we dont do that here . Just eat it ! " or b ) Call the waitress over and tell her you need the steak cooked a little more . You are at a movie theatre and someone is talking and banging the back of your seat . You a ) sit quietly and hope he / she stops b ) you turn around and say ' Hey stop talking and hitting my seat " I have added my 2 cents and got a dollars worth ! I guess I was trying to say I have changed and wanted a more outspoken person in dealing with me . I will end the Jerks vs. Nice Guy Post . Its not fair for me to use the word Jerk , I should have instead said : Assertive Man. But the total package Nice Guy needs to have a some fire and spunk Link to post Share on other sites
JS17 Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 i just want a nice guy who "makes me laugh more often than he makes me cry". I don't want a jerk. Link to post Share on other sites
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