Guilt pulling me down, how to move ahead? [Update:Divorced and further contact after]

[Mrs. John Adams]

What purpose does it serve to repeatedly tell someone that their sin is so great and they are beyond redemption.

 

This is her life and if she has 1 shot at redemption and it is in her heart, then she should take it.

 

No one knows what the future holds. Instead of telling some one they cant do something, perhaps we should wish this woman well and maybe 33 years down the line she can post about how she almost lost everything.

 

She heard everything that was said. She is going, as she should. If she falls, then she falls.

 

Where did I ever say she was beyond redemption? where did i point fingers at her and tell her that her sin is so great that she cannot be forgiven?

 

I am the LAST person to throw stones at somebody else.

 

I am simply trying to help her see the reality of this situation. This is not about her. This is truly about her betrayed spouse.

 

She is not thinking about him...she is thinking about herself. This is her dream...her fantasy...not his. If he wanted her...he could have her back in a heartbeat. He knows this.

 

So if she is as remorseful as she would have us all to believe she is...then she would leave him alone so he can move forward.

 

I don't care what she does...it makes no difference to me. But i want her to understand that this most likely will not turn out to be her happily ever after that she seems to think she deserves at his expense.

 

I think it is rather funny that most here have forgiven her and think her actions are redeeming and are encouraging her to pursue him....when most betrayed spouses here would do exactly what her husband has done in the same circumstances.

[Cullenbohannon]

 

I am the LAST person to throw stones at somebody else.

 

And i believe that but i still I don't get it.

 

Are you saying that she shouldn't even try?

Edited March 2, 2018 by Cullenbohannon

[Mrs. John Adams]

And i believe that but i still I don't get it.

 

Are you saying that she shouldn't even try?

 

Try to do what?

 

Try to talk her soon to be ex husband into giving her another chance?

 

If you have to TALK a betrayed husband into giving you another chance...how successful do you think the reconciliation will be?

 

I believe that the best chance for reconciliation exists when BOTH parties want it...BOTH parties work toward it. If reconciliation only took one party...the percentage of successful reconciliations would be much higher.

 

She cannot reconcile by herself...and He is proceeding with divorce.

 

Look...if this man wanted to save his marriage....wanted to reconcile....wanted to see her....wanted to talk to her....he would. I would have hope for their relationship if after he found out she cheated....he had made movement TOWARD her. HE didn't. He immediately cut her out of his life. He immediately filed for a divorce. He immediately moved to ANOTHER country to get away from her.

 

Does this sound like a man who is interested in "saving" his marriage? Does this sound like a man willing to put in the effort to reconcile? Or does this sound like a man...who cut his losses...and moved on with his life?

 

It really does not matter how badly she wants him back...he has to move toward her and he has not done that.

 

She needs to be concentrating on healing....she needs to concentrate on figuring out how she became the person she became in order to cheat....she needs to be working on herself.

 

He KNOWS she still wants him. If he WANTS her...then he would stop the divorce...and pursue getting back together. He has not done that.

 

This is not about her...it was all about her when she cheated. This is now about him. He is doing what he thinks he needs to do to heal. He has made his choice just like she made hers.

 

So when you say to me...don't i think she should try? My answer is yes...she should try to become a better person....she should try to move on with her life...she should try to put him first....consider what is best for him instead of what SHE wants.

 

I have not heard her say one single time that his wants and needs come first...all i have heard her say for over 30 pages is how much she wants him back...not once considering that perhaps the BEST thing for him is for her to leave him alone....that perhaps his divorcing her is what is BEST for HIM.

 

If I heard in her posts that she wants what is best for him...that she is putting his feelings first...his healing first...I would say she might be beginning to understand remorse. But I don't hear that. I still hear....ME ME ME....what I WANT. That is not remorse....and I believe with all of my heart that true reconciliation requires remorse.

[JuneL]

I also see lots of ME ME ME throughout the thread. If I recall correctly, when her husband just found out the affair and left her, the OP was very bothered that this man whom she had hurt and humiliated deeply didn’t acknowledge her birthday?! Talk about an entitled girl.

[Mind-Chants]

Just wanted to point out to those who are calling her selfish that her husband refused to speak about the affair and didn't discuss much about anything other than divorce. How is she supposed to say things about what her husband wants. Just because someone said things should from now on go as xyz she doesn't have to follow. I support what she said. Her husband is yet to ask her to stop contacting him. He can do that if not he has a mean lawyer to do it if he is too much of a gentleman.

 

I think he is using her desperation as a payback to her and boost his ego. Mrs John Adams is right. He is done with her

[Mrs. John Adams]

Let me also share that none of us deserve forgiveness....or reconciliation. It is a GIFT given to us by the person we have injured.

 

I believe there are MANY betrayed spouses here who have forgiven their wayward spouses...but who still divorced them.

 

Sometimes infidelity is just too much...it crosses too many lines that the betrayed just simply chooses not to deal with.

 

There are folks who have divorced and years later...after the wayward has shown true remorse or proven to them that they can be trusted...remarry.

 

There is no one size fits all for infidelity. There is no one right answer that applies to everyone.

 

but there is a pattern that recovering people seem to follow....stages of grief they go through toward healing....and they have to do what is best for them to achieve that healing.

 

I believe in reconciliation...but i also believe it is not for everyone..and I certainly believe that when a betrayed spouse...shuts as many doors as this man has immediately without hesitation....he is sending a very clear message to his betrayed.

 

Deepremorse wants this man back....I don't doubt she loves him...but unconditional unselfish love means putting the needs and wants of the one you love first. That sometimes means...letting go.

 

She cannot convince him or make him love her or forgive her. She cannot make him take her back. She can "try" all she wants....but she prolongs the pain longer by doing so.

 

She has a relationship with his family...she has expressed to them that she wants him back. She has told the lawyers...she wants him back. Believe me...he knows she wants him back...and he continues to pursue divorce.

 

I don't think visiting will change his mind...and i cannot say whether it is a good or bad idea....it could actually backfire and cause more damage. So my contribution has nothing to do with her visiting him. I cannot see the future.

 

My contribution is to help her see she is still in a selfish behavior mode...she still has not shown remorse because she has tunnel vision and she can only see what she wants not what is best. I want her to heal....and she can't heal until she sees she has a sickness....the same sickness that got her into this whole situation....selfishness.

[Mind-Chants]

 

You don't convince somone to want you back. It has to be there to begin with. Her response to any contact from him should have been along the lines of " I know this will be the hardest thing you will ever do but I hope you can forgive me. I did a horrible thing to you and I have thought night and day about WHY. I do love you. I really do. But if you can't find it in your heart to be with me I understand. I will not fight you in court. I will not stalk you. If being away from me is what you need then I understand. It hurts but I understand. I will always love you even though I threw that love away at one time. I will continue to hold out hope and I'm always free to answer any questions you have."

 

He refuses to discuss anything about the past or affair. This doesn't give her brownie points.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Just wanted to point out to those who are calling her selfish that her husband refused to speak about the affair and didn't discuss much about anything other than divorce. How is she supposed to say things about what her husband wants. Just because someone said things should from now on go as xyz she doesn't have to follow. I support what she said. Her husband is yet to ask her to stop contacting him. He can do that if not he has a mean lawyer to do it if he is too much of a gentleman.

 

I think he is using her desperation as a payback to her and boost his ego. Mrs John Adams is right. He is done with her

 

This certainly could be his mind set...he may very well love the fact that she wants him and he is playing coy with her and sort of rubbing it in her face. Look at me....I am doing great while you continue to grovel.

 

I cant say i blame him...and he is not the first and won't be the last to do that. She devastated his ego...so now he is going to show her just how happy he can be without her.

 

Another possibility could certainly be...maybe he truly does not care. There obviously were marital issues...they were out of sync as a couple...or she would not have cheated in the first place. Maybe he did not love her as much as she thought he did. Maybe her cheating hastened the end of a dying marriage.

 

I am of course speculating....we only have her perspective so we don't know his feelings about any of this.

 

But I believe he has cut his losses and moved on because his actions speak louder than words. He is very simply..finished.

[understand50]

Deepremorse,

 

At the first, I stated in this thread, that if you have any chance at all, you had to play the long game. It seems you have done so. I do not see any issues with you responding to your BS overtures. Just, know lots of damage has been done, and you will have to take it slow, and understand you will need a life time to make it up to him, if and only if, he lets you. Hopefully, you have looked at yourself and made some large changes, and have some idea how how you got here. Whats is next? Showing and living remorse for what you have done, and letting your BS have what he needs to heal. It may not be what you want, and may not be what you are hoping for, but in the end you will be better for it, and he will have peace.

 

I wish you luck.

[Mind-Chants]

I also see lots of ME ME ME throughout the thread. If I recall correctly, when her husband just found out the affair and left her, the OP was very bothered that this man whom she had hurt and humiliated deeply didn’t acknowledge her birthday?! Talk about an entitled girl.

Such a biased post with fact twisting.

 

She said she expected her husband to call. Not complaining why he didn't call.

[JuneL]

Such a biased post with fact twisting.

 

She said she expected her husband to call. Not complaining why he didn't call.

 

That’s exactly my point: Your husband’s world has been shattered, and you still worry about him calling you on your birthday. What a princess mindset.

[Mind-Chants]

This certainly could be his mind set...he may very well love the fact that she wants him and he is playing coy with her and sort of rubbing it in her face. Look at me....I am doing great while you continue to grovel.

 

I cant say i blame him...and he is not the first and won't be the last to do that. She devastated his ego...so now he is going to show her just how happy he can be without her.

 

Another possibility could certainly be...maybe he truly does not care. There obviously were marital issues...they were out of sync as a couple...or she would not have cheated in the first place. Maybe he did not love her as much as she thought he did. Maybe her cheating hastened the end of a dying marriage.

 

I am of course speculating....we only have her perspective so we don't know his feelings about any of this.

 

But I believe he has cut his losses and moved on because his actions speak louder than words. He is very simply..finished.

 

Their relationship is quite interesting. They are emotionally at polar opposite ends. Husband is emotionally closed and DR is super emotional. I can see the huge gap. Only DR can put some light on how they navigated through this.

 

I still believe he loves her. But that dude thinks through his head and can ignore his emotions. Makes sense that he ghosted her as he is uncomfortable making emotional-angry discussions with DR just after D-Day.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Deepremorse, well you've been given a lot of sobering advice by a number of people on here. The way I see it is that as someone else said, 'Follow your heart'! A lot of water has flowed down the Ganges' and both you and your husband are now removed in time from the moment of your infidelity. Both of you have had time to mull over things and to let emotions subside. In your case you have put in the effort to determine your flaws and work on them. No doubt you have still a lot of work to do but the momentum of your effort should help propel you forward. Your effort in meeting your husband in Frankfurt will not go unnoticed by him. I am not saying that it will magically make him want to reconcile with you but he will recognize it for what it is, a desire to vmake up for your transgressions and repent for your actions. It will be helpful and healing for both of you and provide for closure on both your sides. Maybe your husband has not been able to move on because he needs to see you showing repentance for your great betrayal. That is why he has delayed the divorce. It could possibly something else. Whatever the case may be go to Frankfurt with an open mind and no expectations.

 

This move of yours may or may not yield results. However, one way or another you will know you gave it your best shot and that is all you can do. As they say "You win some you lose some"! All this will help you grow and in time you will find someone, maybe your husband maybe some other man who may be more emotionally compatible with you and with whom you can build a happy future. The important thing is whether you have learnt your lessons well. If you are wise you will have learnt these lessons and learnt them well so that your future life can be happy. Life is the school of hard knocks and experience is the best teacher in the world. Remember that and you will be alright. Warm wishes.

[DKT3]

This certainly could be his mind set...he may very well love the fact that she wants him and he is playing coy with her and sort of rubbing it in her face. Look at me....I am doing great while you continue to grovel.

 

I cant say i blame him...and he is not the first and won't be the last to do that. She devastated his ego...so now he is going to show her just how happy he can be without her.

 

Another possibility could certainly be...maybe he truly does not care. There obviously were marital issues...they were out of sync as a couple...or she would not have cheated in the first place. Maybe he did not love her as much as she thought he did. Maybe her cheating hastened the end of a dying marriage.

 

I am of course speculating....we only have her perspective so we don't know his feelings about any of this.

 

But I believe he has cut his losses and moved on because his actions speak louder than words. He is very simply..finished.

 

Honestly, all these scenario would be wildly out of character for how she described her husband. If I'm remembering correctly, she says he always put her needs above his. Also at one point during her affair he sat her down and asked if it was more he could do to make her happy....TO me that was a indication of one of two things 1) he recognized that something was off 2) he knew of the affair at that point and it was her chance.

 

Either way, he doesn't sound like a man who WAS emotionally closed off nor like one who would be peacocking a happy farce to rub her nose in it. Just my opinion.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Hi Deepremorse, well you've been given a lot of sobering advice by a number of people on here. The way I see it is that as someone else said, 'Follow your heart'! A lot of water has flowed down the Ganges' and both you and your husband are now removed in time from the moment of your infidelity. Both of you have had time to mull over things and to let emotions subside. In your case you have put in the effort to determine your flaws and work on them. No doubt you have still a lot of work to do but the momentum of your effort should help propel you forward. Your effort in meeting your husband in Frankfurt will not go unnoticed by him. I am not saying that it will magically make him want to reconcile with you but he will recognize it for what it is, a desire to vmake up for your transgressions and repent for your actions. It will be helpful and healing for both of you and provide for closure on both your sides. Maybe your husband has not been able to move on because he needs to see you showing repentance for your great betrayal. That is why he has delayed the divorce. It could possibly something else. Whatever the case may be go to Frankfurt with an open mind and no expectations.

 

This move of yours may or may not yield results. However, one way or another you will know you gave it your best shot and that is all you can do. As they say "You win some you lose some"! All this will help you grow and in time you will find someone, maybe your husband maybe some other man who may be more emotionally compatible with you and with whom you can build a happy future. The important thing is whether you have learnt your lessons well. If you are wise you will have learnt these lessons and learnt them well so that your future life can be happy. Life is the school of hard knocks and experience is the best teacher in the world. Remember that and you will be alright. Warm wishes.

 

JAG...I just have one thing to say to you....I know you have never experienced infidelity personally...and so i am regarding your comment keeping that in mind.

 

I don't care how much water has flowed under a bridge...or how much time has passed....Emotions about betrayal...never ...i repeat NEVER subside. As healing happens...the emotions can lessen...but the pain is always there. You can compare it to the death of a relative or a spouse. You learn to live with the pain of the loss...but you don't get over it and you don't forget.

 

In the op's case...her husband has certainly not healed...and while it may be true when they see each other face to face...they may either not discuss it at all...or they may finally discuss it and he may finally let go and tell her exactly what he thinks.

 

I can tell you this...betrayed spouses keep a whole lot of anger inside...and if healing is to happen...i believe that anger has to be expressed. The two of them will have to deal with this if reconciliation ever takes place. and my gut tells me...he is a very non confrontational person...and will avoid it at all costs. Healing for him cannot come if he just buries it and pretends it never happened.

 

He can certainly move on without her and live a happy life....but if he intends to have a life with her....he will have to deal with his emotions. He just walked away from her and moved on....when he sees her...all hell could break lose. She may decide he is not worth it after all.

 

I don't want to speculate about him too much...because we only have her story.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Honestly, all these scenario would be wildly out of character for how she described her husband. If I'm remembering correctly, she says he always put her needs above his. Also at one point during her affair he sat her down and asked if it was more he could do to make her happy....TO me that was a indication of one of two things 1) he recognized that something was off 2) he knew of the affair at that point and it was her chance.

 

Either way, he doesn't sound like a man who WAS emotionally closed off nor like one who would be peacocking a happy farce to rub her nose in it. Just my opinion.

 

If you go back to my post you will see that Someone else made the suggestion...I speculated on their suggestion...but you of course quoted me to address and correct.

[Jamess1]

"I cheated on my husband for 2 years. We were together for 4 years."

 

You were having sex with another man for 2 years, 24 months out of the 4 years you were married

 

Your husband never got married, he never had a wife. You never loved him and you don't love him ( I am not asking ), you were using him as a utility.

 

Let the man go, no one deserve to leave a lie for the rest of their lives. It's just an evil thing to do to another human being.

[Mrs. John Adams]

exactly...sad as it may be....

[LivingWaterPlease]

JAG...I just have one thing to say to you....I know you have never experienced infidelity personally...and so i am regarding your comment keeping that in mind.

 

I don't care how much water has flowed under a bridge...or how much time has passed....Emotions about betrayal...never ...i repeat NEVER subside. As healing happens...the emotions can lessen...but the pain is always there. You can compare it to the death of a relative or a spouse. You learn to live with the pain of the loss...but you don't get over it and you don't forget.

 

In the op's case...her husband has certainly not healed...and while it may be true when they see each other face to face...they may either not discuss it at all...or they may finally discuss it and he may finally let go and tell her exactly what he thinks.

 

I can tell you this...betrayed spouses keep a whole lot of anger inside...and if healing is to happen...i believe that anger has to be expressed. The two of them will have to deal with this if reconciliation ever takes place. and my gut tells me...he is a very non confrontational person...and will avoid it at all costs. Healing for him cannot come if he just buries it and pretends it never happened.

 

He can certainly move on without her and live a happy life....but if he intends to have a life with her....he will have to deal with his emotions. He just walked away from her and moved on....when he sees her...all hell could break lose. She may decide he is not worth it after all.

 

I don't want to speculate about him too much...because we only have her story.

 

I believe this varies with the individual, Mrs. JA. I have experienced infidelity and been able to move on from it while staying in a R without living with continued pain. It seems to me you have spoken from your own experience and I agree that seems to be the case for many others, too.

 

But, for some of us, we are able to forgive, and put the betrayal in the past, not harboring, pain, resentment and anger. I have personally been able to forgive much in a R and move on with peace.

 

I contend that DR's continued interest in having whatever relationship with her H they may have together is not selfish because it may work to the best for both of them. I do believe she should continue to follow her heart. But, this is coming from a person who sees some things in a differing perspective than you do, both of us basing our perspective on our own experiences and what we have observed with others. I would think both of our perspectives will be helpful to DR.

Edited March 4, 2018 by LivingWaterPlease

[Mind-Chants]

"I cheated on my husband for 2 years. We were together for 4 years."

 

Where is this mentioned ???

[Mind-Chants]

Honestly, all these scenario would be wildly out of character for how she described her husband. If I'm remembering correctly, she says he always put her needs above his. Also at one point during her affair he sat her down and asked if it was more he could do to make her happy....TO me that was a indication of one of two things 1) he recognized that something was off 2) he knew of the affair at that point and it was her chance.

 

Either way, he doesn't sound like a man who WAS emotionally closed off nor like one who would be peacocking a happy farce to rub her nose in it. Just my opinion.

 

True. While posting I forgot about this instead suggested he might be using her desperation to boost his ego.

[Adotta]

Where is this mentioned ???

First few pages.

[Mind-Chants]

I cheated on my husband of 2 years. We were together for 4 years. He has initiated the divorce proceedings. But I am having a hard time forgiving myself. Not sure if I would ever get out of this mess. I never got to speak with him after d day. I just once want the opportunity to speak with him. I have been waiting for him to just say something since d day happened 2 months back. I have this unimaginable pain inside me that is pulling me down. The guilt is too heavy for me to carry. Not sure what I am going to do next. Need some help from this community to help me cope with the situation.

 

This

 

Unfortunately it was 3 month long stupidity on my part.

 

And this.

[Adotta]

This

 

 

 

And this.

 

Good catch. I was also sure it was 2 years.

 

OK so that's not quite as bad. But still. She was only 2 years into marriage......

 

Don't get me wrong. If she can be back together with him and he WANTS her back and she can be faithful kind loving a supportive for him that would make me happy. I just don't see it happening.

 

But I'm not there. I don't know him and I barely know her. I've read her story but thats it.

 

Usually guys who are able to leave immediately and cut all ties, and start divorce rolling don't ever come back.

 

But maybe I'm being too firm in my mindset. The people posting to support her in her latest efforts have given me stuff to think about.

 

But most of all I just hope she really has learned her lesson. I hope she isn't as self centered as she somtimes seems on this thread. And I hope she has the wherewithal to know when it's truly over and spare him the pain of dragging it out.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I believe this varies with the individual, Mrs. JA. I have experienced infidelity and been able to move on from it while staying in a R without living with continued pain. It seems to me you have spoken from your own experience and I agree that seems to be the case for many others, too.

 

But, for some of us, we are able to forgive, and put the betrayal in the past, not harboring, pain, resentment and anger. I have personally been able to forgive much in a R and move on with peace.

 

I contend that DR's continued interest in having whatever relationship with her H they may have together is not selfish because it may work to the best for both of them. I do believe she should continue to follow her heart. But, this is coming from a person who sees some things in a differing perspective than you do, both of us basing our perspective on our own experiences and what we have observed with others. I would think both of our perspectives will be helpful to DR.

 

How did you take this quote I don't care how much water has flowed under a bridge...or how much time has passed....Emotions about betrayal...never ...i repeat NEVER subside. As healing happens...the emotions can lessen...but the pain is always there. You can compare it to the death of a relative or a spouse. You learn to live with the pain of the loss...but you don't get over it and you don't forget. and interpret it to mean that i said what you said i said?