NTV Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Why do you want to change another person? That is not a healthy approach to a relationship. I think we're supposed to accept them flaws and all. Well, if you wanna, right? If I want to I can not accept anyone, too, right? Link to post Share on other sites
dichotomy Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Why do you want to change another person? That is not a healthy approach to a relationship. I think we're supposed to accept them flaws and all. If you were aware of the flaws - I suppose. Sometimes you are not before hand. But love and commitment also includes doing what you can to help them grow, teach them, get them expert help, and also if needed set limits. Sometimes those you love have unhealthy behaviors or ways of thinking and acting. With my help (sometimes pushing/dragging) my wife has changed in a few key areas for the better, except for one or two. The last two I have sadly had to accept- hence some resentment and loss of some love. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 I can answer that. People change. They may not be home body lazy and selfish. But over time as they get comfortable they become something quite different than what they were when you first met them. Yes, people do change. But here's what the OP said: When I talked about changing ; I meant that in 18 years I have changed toward a better person ; it is called maturity ... Looking at my wife I can see her , the same lazy , selfish person since after vows ... she didn't change ... Seems that she hasn't changed and that's the problem. I'd hate to bet my future on the hope a selfish/lazy partner was going to evolve into something better after the wedding... Mr. Lucky 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Whoknew30 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Certainly agree that happens. But if it's your choice to stay, seems misdirected to blame your spouse for it. All things considered, you did what you thought was best for you... Mr. Lucky Some people take their vows seriously...it's funny how that's usually only pointed out about cheating but most vows state "till death do you part"...& some take that literally. Divorce is not exactly moral for everyone, vows don't state "it's ok to leave bc you're not happy". 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Thisguy21 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) Back on topic I hate the freaking manipulative garbage that goes on in a fight. Taking your ring off and throwing it like you wish to divorce. Really? You want to divorce because I made a minor mistake? Like oops I didn't text you when I should have. Then when she admits to that being childish and her way to manipulate the fight, she stops doing that. Only to be replaced with words of the same effect. "I can't imagine being married to you for the rest of my life" ok the why the effing hell are you still here? There's the door. By all means walk through it! Or "I just don't care anymore". Oh you say you care more then anything when we are ok, but when we have an argument, suddenly you don't care anymore? Please stop pulling that manipulate BS at me because guess what, I'll call your bluff. Go ahead and leave. I would NEVER do that in an argument. I don't always fight fair either, so I can't say I'm some saint, but I've NEVER EVEN HINTED that we should just end it because of some stupid fight. Especially when YOU ARE IN THE WRONG AND ADMIT IT!! Then you want to bring up something i said that hurt your feelings a month ago and use that as some sort of justification for wanting to split? When you don't even tell me the words I spoke in jest weeks ago upset you I the first place until now? You want to keep a goddamn Rolodex list of things I said or did that you seemingly had no issue with into a fight about something entirely different because you KNOW YOU WERE WRONG! So you just have to find some reason I wronged you to justify your own wrong doings. Gtfo of here with that please! I don't remember what you said that upset me yesterday because I'm over it and it damn sure won't come up in a fight 3 months from now. That isn't what this argument is about in the first place. That is how you know you are winning an argument folks and that your partner was in the wrong and they just don't want to admit it and say sorry. They start bringing up other stuff to make you feel bad about yourself because they ALWAYS have to be right. They ALWAYS are the victim and can do no wrong. How are you going to threaten to leave because you treated ME wrong? Because you are trying to manipulate the fight in your favor. I'm done with that BS. You want to leave, there is the door. Don't let it hit you in the ass on the way out. But that isn't what you really want. You want me to start apologizing for all my wrong doings and forget about your own wrong doing which is why we are fighting in the first place! Hate it. Hate isn't too strong of a word for it either, I effing hate it and I'm done having the tables turned on me for nonsense so you can gain back the control you so desperately seek. You did me wrong now own it like an adult and let's move the freak on! Because goddamn it I love you and now we don't speak for days because of your stubbornness and your desire to always feel like you're in the right. That is what I HATE about my spouse. It's childish nonsense. Probably the only bad habit of hers that I loath. Ive been calling her bluff more recently and it's died down but we are fighting again right now and again "I dont care anymore and I'm starting to stray away from the marriage and that doesn't alarm you anymore". BS biatch because you were just talking about how you can't wait to go on our summer vacation together three days ago. But then you got in trouble and "you've been starting to stray away for a while now" stupid childish crap again. Same stuff you said you are done doing. "I used to manipulate things but I'm older now and I don't have time for that" whatever. Still same old you, just a different means of execution. Grrrrrrrrrrr Other then that we are fine though haha! To be fair she could probably have this same rant about me for some other reason for things I do wrong. Thankfully I only have to deal with this a couple times a year at most. But good night it bugs the piss out of me. I'm sure I have a bad habit (or two) that bugs the hell out of her once or twice a year as well. 10 years marriage in and another 7 years dating before that and we are still trying to work out how to fight fair. We are both a little hot headed and when we are upset we both throw daggers. But man I love her and I know she feels the same. But yeah a few times a year this relationship is absolute hell. Haha. Ahhh marriage, good stuff ain't it? Edited May 10, 2017 by Thisguy21 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Back on topic I hate the freaking manipulative garbage that goes on in a fight. Taking your ring off and throwing it like you wish to divorce. Really? You want to divorce because I made a minor mistake? Like oops I didn't text you when I should have. Then when she admits to that being childish and her way to manipulate the fight, she stops doing that. Only to be replaced with words of the same effect. "I can't imagine being married to you for the rest of my life" ok the why the effing hell are you still here? There's the door. By all means walk through it! Or "I just don't care anymore". Oh you say you care more then anything when we are ok, but when we have an argument, suddenly you don't care anymore? Please stop pulling that manipulate BS at me because guess what, I'll call your bluff. Go ahead and leave. I would NEVER do that in an argument. I don't always fight fair either, so I can't say I'm some saint, but I've NEVER EVEN HINTED that we should just end it because of some stupid fight. Especially when YOU ARE IN THE WRONG AND ADMIT IT!! Then you want to bring up something i said that hurt your feelings a month ago and use that as some sort of justification for wanting to split? When you don't even tell me the words I spoke in jest weeks ago upset you I the first place until now? You want to keep a goddamn Rolodex list of things I said or did that you seemingly had no issue with into a fight about something entirely different because you KNOW YOU WERE WRONG! So you just have to find some reason I wronged you to justify your own wrong doings. Gtfo of here with that please! I don't remember what you said that upset me yesterday because I'm over it and it damn sure won't come up in a fight 3 months from now. That isn't what this argument is about in the first place. That is how you know you are winning an argument folks and that your partner was in the wrong and they just don't want to admit it and say sorry. They start bringing up other stuff to make you feel bad about yourself because they ALWAYS have to be right. They ALWAYS are the victim and can do no wrong. How are you going to threaten to leave because you treated ME wrong? Because you are trying to manipulate the fight in your favor. I'm done with that BS. You want to leave, there is the door. Don't let it hit you in the ass on the way out. But that isn't what you really want. You want me to start apologizing for all my wrong doings and forget about your own wrong doing which is why we are fighting in the first place! Hate it. Hate isn't too strong of a word for it either, I effing hate it and I'm done having the tables turned on me for nonsense so you can gain back the control you so desperately seek. You did me wrong now own it like an adult and let's move the freak on! Because goddamn it I love you and now we don't speak for days because of your stubbornness and your desire to always feel like you're in the right. That is what I HATE about my spouse. It's childish nonsense. Probably the only bad habit of hers that I loath. Ive been calling her bluff more recently and it's died down but we are fighting again right now and again "I dont care anymore and I'm starting to stray away from the marriage and that doesn't alarm you anymore". BS biatch because you were just talking about how you can't wait to go on our summer vacation together three days ago. But then you got in trouble and "you've been starting to stray away for a while now" stupid childish crap again. Same stuff you said you are done doing. "I used to manipulate things but I'm older now and I don't have time for that" whatever. Still same old you, just a different means of execution. Grrrrrrrrrrr Other then that we are fine though haha! To be fair she could probably have this same rant about me for some other reason for things I do wrong. Thankfully I only have to deal with this a couple times a year at most. But good night it bugs the piss out of me. I'm sure I have a bad habit (or two) that bugs the hell out of her once or twice a year as well. 10 years marriage in and another 7 years dating before that and we are still trying to work out how to fight fair. We are both a little hot headed and when we are upset we both throw daggers. But man I love her and I know she feels the same. But yeah a few times a year this relationship is absolute hell. Haha. Ahhh marriage, good stuff ain't it? Next time this happens tell her you agree that you two should split and start discussing plans to do so. After that go out with friends or by yourself but don't even play her game. After she sees that this kind of crap only gets a cold shoulder she will either change or leave for good which to me is a win either way but most likely it will be the former. Don't even play the game because she has it rigged against you. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Thisguy21 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Well I certainly don't consider her leaving for good a win. I would never think of my marriage ending as a win. What kind of nonsense is that? No, instead of playing games back, which is what you are suggesting even though you are saying "don't play that game". Then precede to tell me exactly how to play that game. I just point out that what she is doing feels like manipulative tactics to gain the upper hand in an argument and I don't appreciate her tactics. I'm not going to try and manipulate her right back. That would make me a hypocrite! Instead I try and make her think about what she is saying or doing with the hope that she will realize she needs to cut that out because it doesn't work the way she wants and those words can leave a nice wound in me. She's not here to say all the crap I do that drives her crazy so I'll say it again for her. I'm sure she could have a nice long rant about the things I do the same as I did for her. I know I don't fight fair either sometimes. We both don't fight all that fair. But no, her leaving for good will never be a win in my eyes and I'm not going to try and manipulate her back either. Link to post Share on other sites
anika99 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Some people take their vows seriously...it's funny how that's usually only pointed out about cheating but most vows state "till death do you part"...& some take that literally. Divorce is not exactly moral for everyone, vows don't state "it's ok to leave bc you're not happy". But that's still a choice. Nobody can be legally forced to stay married. If a person decides to place higher value on their vows than on their personal happiness then that is a choice they are making and it's immature to blame ones own choices on somebody else. Link to post Share on other sites
BettyDraper Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 When I hated my husband, it was due to his selfishness and ruining important moments. I was also disgusted with his procrastination and using money as an excuse whenever he didn't want to do something. My husband could have easily afforded the small things I was asking for. He was just thinking only of himself. I bent over backwards to please my husband but he didn't care about me. Thankfully, those behaviors are mostly absent now. He decided to pay attention when I finally screamed at him after going over the same issues 9,386 times. I also became very cold because I wasn't about to be affectionate with someone who didn't care how I felt. I asked him to leave so that we could figure out if we should stay married. I told my husband that I couldn't be married to someone who was self centered and didn't care what I said. All of those reactions sparked a huge turnaround. Now we're best friends. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Whoknew30 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 But that's still a choice. Nobody can be legally forced to stay married. If a person decides to place higher value on their vows than on their personal happiness then that is a choice they are making and it's immature to blame ones own choices on somebody else. But it's moral...divorce is not an option for all that get married bc legalized it's an option. That applies for only to those that look at it as legal & not as much as religious. So no, till death do us part, is not just a "choice" for some. Marriage has become a novelty now a days, if one isn't happy just leave. Some take their commit in that ceremony as it's stated...we all have our differences & morality is one of them. So no i personally do not think it's immature to chose to honor a life long commitment...just bc society doesn't take it as serious anymore. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Whoknew30 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Next time this happens tell her you agree that you two should split and start discussing plans to do so. After that go out with friends or by yourself but don't even play her game. After she sees that this kind of crap only gets a cold shoulder she will either change or leave for good which to me is a win either way but most likely it will be the former. Don't even play the game because she has it rigged against you. See this is the issue with marriage now a days...bc one person is being immature, the other shouldn't lower their own standards & then call it a "win"...there's no "win" in a failed marriage. It's a failure. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Thisguy21 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 See this is the issue with marriage now a days...bc one person is being immature, the other shouldn't lower their own standards & then call it a "win"...there's no "win" in a failed marriage. It's a failure. Quoted for truth! But.your last post I disagree with. Even in bible times marriage was about financial gain, or should I say it was more about financial gain then anything else. Don't kid yourself and think of your religion as pure in intent. Yeah don't have sex before you are married. easy to say when you are marrying your daughter off at 12 years old. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BettyDraper Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 I pity my first wife because she seems determined to completely self destruct but I used to hate her. Hate does nothing but hurt you and not the target of your hatred so I dropped it I could never hate my current wife. Any two people under the same roof will annoy each other every once in a blue moon but she is one of the few people who has my full trust and respect. I'm happy that you moved on from your hate. However, nobody knows what the future will bring. I'm sure you could end up hating your wife if she made several negative changes which were detrimental to your marriage. I hope you and your wife continue to have a joyous union. Link to post Share on other sites
Thisguy21 Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 On a related note, make-up sex is always amazing! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Phoenician Posted May 11, 2017 Author Share Posted May 11, 2017 Have you tried professional counselling.....or would you consider it.....family therapy?...is there anyone you wife talks to or could talk to?......deb Thanks for trying to help... I went to so many IC sessions , starting from TED like to Individuals ; finally my therapist requested her to be in , she refused , and refused and refused. when things blew up few years back , she left home and went to her parents ; they are good ppl , but spoiling their child ; they said they will help ; they did by making her more comfortable , spoiling her more .... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Phoenician Posted May 11, 2017 Author Share Posted May 11, 2017 Was this marriage by choice? Trying to figure out why you'd marry a "lazy selfish person"... Mr. Lucky It was by choice ; however culture dosn't allow for living together . you can never discover reality except after vows, when partners lives in the same nest , share real life challenges 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Phoenician Posted May 11, 2017 Author Share Posted May 11, 2017 Why do you want to change another person? That is not a healthy approach to a relationship. I think we're supposed to accept them flaws and all. the only thing that can not be accepted is selfishness. Link to post Share on other sites
Whoknew30 Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 Quoted for truth! But.your last post I disagree with. Even in bible times marriage was about financial gain, or should I say it was more about financial gain then anything else. Don't kid yourself and think of your religion as pure in intent. Yeah don't have sex before you are married. easy to say when you are marrying your daughter off at 12 years old. Not every religion marrys off kids...especially in first world countries. That's completely immoral & I don't personally believe, anyone that thinks that's ok is moral or really even religious...I'm talking about average people that truly took their vows sacred. Doesn't mean someone is a religious fanatic bc they take their faith & or belief seriously. Link to post Share on other sites
Thisguy21 Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 (edited) Not every religion marrys off kids...especially in first world countries. That's completely immoral & I don't personally believe, anyone that thinks that's ok is moral or really even religious...I'm talking about average people that truly took their vows sacred. Doesn't mean someone is a religious fanatic bc they take their faith & or belief seriously. They did when those books were written. In bible times they were indeed marrying off their sons and daughters at 12 and 13 years old. A lot of people would partner their kids for some sort of financial gain. I would even venture to say more were married off due to other reasons then two individuals who love each other and want to spend their lives together. But like religion has done with many other things, it changes with the times and the rules of the religion get rewritten. Which is fine,. But when marriage was first conceived, it had nothing to do with what religious people say it is today. It wasn't two people making a commitment to each other and god. Marriage was nothing but a financial contract. If a woman became widowed she was often then married off to the deceased brother so marital assets would stay in the family for example. Would you condone that in today's times? Nah probably not. Do some reading and research on what marriage was all about when the Bible was written. Why it was created in the first place. Divorce was frowned upon because it cost the family money or land or some sort of assets. Oh and you didn't want to disobey your parents back then, lest you get stoned to death. Edited May 11, 2017 by Thisguy21 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 I am not suggesting to play games with her but don't let yourself get sucked into the manipulation. If she can't discuss issues like a mature adult instead of pulling that kind of crap then just don't deal with her and when she tells you she wants to split tell her stop talking and do it or don't mention splitting again. Link to post Share on other sites
wmacbride Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 There has been times when, for five cents, I could have throttled my husband, but i have never hated him. No matter how angry I have been, I have still always loved him. OP, why do you stay if you are miserable?I can understand wanting to stay for the kids, but what sort of lesson are you teaching them? Link to post Share on other sites
wmacbride Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 When I talked about changing ; I meant that in 18 years I have changed toward a better person ; it is called maturity ... Looking at my wife I can see her , the same lazy , selfish person since after vows ... she didn't change ... she is lazy toward anything related to me or even kids ; if it was only toward me It would have been making some sense. she is a different person if it is related to her ; what she likes , her parents , her friends ..... No offence, but if she was like this when you married her, and since you allow it to continue, why on earth would she have any incentive to change. In fact, it's pretty unfair. you knew what she was like, yet you married her, expecting her to change. Why? Link to post Share on other sites
wmacbride Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Not every religion marrys off kids...especially in first world countries. That's completely immoral & I don't personally believe, anyone that thinks that's ok is moral or really even religious...I'm talking about average people that truly took their vows sacred. Doesn't mean someone is a religious fanatic bc they take their faith & or belief seriously. One also doesn't have to be religious. I'm agnostic, but take it very seriously. I didn't get married planing to divorce, and it is an option of last resort. This being said, I couldn't stay for almost two decades if I was desperately unhappy. At some point, it would become me choosing that life rather than it being forced on me, Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Some time back I responded to a great thread : http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/557064-why-do-you-love-your-spouse I would like to hear opinion for those who passes through periods of hate to their spouse ... why do you hate your spouse ? my answer is that , because she is not changing since 18 years , while I try to do it for 18 years .... your opinion ? Are you meaning 'hate' or irritation? Like what bugs you about your spouse? Link to post Share on other sites
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