Dating: Measuring Level of Effort

[GunslingerRoland]

This can mean a lot of different things in different circumstances. Like, if a guy invites me over to his house and he's actually HOSTING, like he's made a multi-course home-cooked meal with some decorations on the table, etc, like you would if you were having a dinner party... then he's definitely making an effort to make it a romantic night.

 

But if a guy invites me to his house to share the same sort of meal he would have had anyway, the same drinks he would have had anyway, watch the same TV he would have watched if I hadn't been there, and "clean up" by washing the dishes that he would have had to wash anyway... I mean, it's not zero effort to add me to the meal, but it sure doesn't feel like he's trying to make it feel special.

 

 

I guess if you are the one person on the planet whose house is spotless all of the time, and cooks a full dinner for one for themself everynight that would be true. Reality is that most people have to do a lot of cleaning before having someone over and most single people don't do a lot of cooking for themselves...

[elaine567]

YOU are artificially comparing a home cooked meal with a coffee date when the true comparison is home cooked meal vs dining out in a good restaurant.

 

Unless this home cooked meal is very special ie you are a real foodie or a gourmet chef then you will be seen as taking the easy way out, i.e. no real effort to impress.

The cheap option as opposed to spending real money, taking time to dress up and taking your date out to a nice restaurant.

 

It doesn't really matter if you have slaved half the afternoon over a hot stove or polished the house to fine sheen, the effort will go unappreciated when compared to the experience of dining out.

 

Home cooked meals are more for bfs and gfs, not for dates.

 

Your gf could spend about 3 weeks making you a lovely hand knitted jumper but you I guess would prefer her to buy you one with a designer label.

The huge effort she put in knitting you the jumper is not perceived as being anything that special, even though the real effort put in is far greater.

[somanymistakes]

I guess if you are the one person on the planet whose house is spotless all of the time, and cooks a full dinner for one for themself everynight that would be true. Reality is that most people have to do a lot of cleaning before having someone over and most single people don't do a lot of cooking for themselves...

 

That's why I said IF it's the same... because I have definitely been invited over to homes that weren't all that clean to share dinners that weren't scratch-cooked, lol.

 

Your gf could spend about 3 weeks making you a lovely hand knitted jumper but you I guess would prefer her to buy you one with a designer label.

The huge effort she put in knitting you the jumper is not perceived as being anything that special, even though the real effort put in is far greater.

 

but we would rightly consider the bf a jerk if he totally dissed a hand-knitted sweater!

[VeveCakes]

The effort for coffe IS more though.

 

Planning

Getting dressed nicely

Picking up the date

Opening doors

Paying for the date

Etc

 

Inviting someone to your house IS lazy. It also shows little effort for planning since you would have to make dinner for yourself anyways. Plus a woman wants to get dressed up and be seen. It's the whole date experience.

 

Couch surfing is lame in the early stages.

[Shining One]

It's not about effort as it is in perceived value. Asking somebody to your home has devolved into a coded request for sex. When the invitation to a man's home comes early in the relationship especially before the couple has had sex, the woman almost automatically thinks the guy is saying she's not even worth his time & trouble to leave him home. She feels like he's demanding sex be delivered to him because he's too lazy to even come & get it.

Thanks, this helps a lot. I've clearly been taking the no/low effort posts too literally.

[johngalt1149]

Might take more work inside but the price of admission to a relationship whether right or wrong is the taking of someone out to dinner or whatever. It isn't courteous to request of someone you barely know to come over for pizza/Netflix which is a thinly veiled reference to sex- friend or not. Just because they might become friends doesn't mean on a couch, drinking etc nothing would happen. Regardless of her response which probably saved some other hapless lady from the same request, what he did was not an acceptable norm in society and surely not respectful or courteous..

[Shining One]

Unless this home cooked meal is very special ie you are a real foodie or a gourmet chef then you will be seen as taking the easy way out, i.e. no real effort to impress.

This helps a lot too. The women in question are measuring "effort to impress" rather than actual effort put into the date.

Your gf could spend about 3 weeks making you a lovely hand knitted jumper but you I guess would prefer her to buy you one with a designer label.

The huge effort she put in knitting you the jumper is not perceived as being anything that special, even though the real effort put in is far greater.

Again, this isn't about preference. It's about calculation of effort and how the "no effort" conclusion is reached. While I may prefer a designer label, I would certainly not post on a forum that my girlfriend put in "no effort".

[Shining One]

but we would rightly consider the bf a jerk if he totally dissed a hand-knitted sweater!

Yet we don't call women jerks for labelling the men who cook dinner for their dates as lazy.

[Shining One]

The effort for coffe IS more though.

I feel sorry for you if this has actually been your experience.

Planning

Finding a coffee shop online and saying let's meet here at X date and time isn't much effort. Planning a dinner date at home usually involves deciding a meal to her liking, trips to at least one grocery store and a liquor store.

Getting dressed nicely

I'll concede this one. I do dress nicer to go out.

Picking up the date

My coffee dates didn't involve me picking up my date. We always met at the coffee shop.

Opening doors

I have to open the door for her to get in my house.

Paying for the date

I addressed this earlier. It costs me more to make dinner for a woman than to take her out for coffee.

Inviting someone to your house IS lazy.

How are you drawing this conclusion? I've never considered any of the women (not that there are that many) who invited me over and cooked me dinner as lazy.

[elaine567]

Yet we don't call women jerks for labelling the men who cook dinner for their dates as lazy.

 

Yes, but sex is the complication.

He is not seen as cooking a meal out of the goodness of his heart, like she is knitting the jumper, he is seen as cooking the meal in exchange for sex on his own sofa/bed.

[GunslingerRoland]

That's why I said IF it's the same... because I have definitely been invited over to homes that weren't all that clean to share dinners that weren't scratch-cooked, lol.

 

Fair enough. I just know for me, and it's difficult for me to remember what a house without children looks like, the thought of effort for going out to a restaurant vs. having someone over isn't even the same ballpark though.

 

Still I think the first 2-3 dates should take place out though...

[VeveCakes]

I feel sorry for you if this has actually been your experience.

Finding a coffee shop online and saying let's meet here at X date and time isn't much effort. Planning a dinner date at home usually involves deciding a meal to her liking, trips to at least one grocery store and a liquor store.

I'll concede this one. I do dress nicer to go out.

My coffee dates didn't involve me picking up my date. We always met at the coffee shop.

I have to open the door for her to get in my house.

I addressed this earlier. It costs me more to make dinner for a woman than to take her out for coffee.How are you drawing this conclusion? I've never considered any of the women (not that there are that many) who invited me over and cooked me dinner as lazy.

 

Yeah don't feel sorry for me I'm doing just fine thanks.

I feel like coffee is not the right comparison but anyways, leaving your house just takes effort. Even if you're just going to Walmart, it takes effort!

 

You would have to cook for yourself anyways, so adding another person doesn't cost more or take more effort. If you are talking a big elaborate dinner than ok, but that makes little sense in this scenario. What the OP is referring to I would think is the common "come over and watch a movie and eat" date.

 

If a man plans a gourmet dinner and all the stops then I highly doubt that man is a lazy do nothing man. So the details are important here.

 

Letting someone in your house vs opening the door for a women shows effort I. How to treat her properly.

 

If you don't pick up your date then that's your loss. When I go out pretty much every guy offers to pick me up and I don't live in town. I don't always take heir ride but the offer is nice.

 

Like it was said though, a man inviting you over for tv and dinner usually means they want a piece. It's minimum effort requires to get it.

[johngalt1149]

What women will cook dinner at her house on the first encounter? Unless a rural area with nothing to do. even then...there must be something outside in a neutral area to get to know. Friends or otherwise.

[rester]

OP, what are trying to learn from this thread? Comparing your scenarios without context, the home cooked meal is clearly (to me) more effort. Even a homemade pizza involves making the dough, the sauce, a trip to the wine store. A coffee date involves nothing more than getting dressed and spending a few dollars.

 

Is your intent for women to recognize and acknowledge that cooking for them is "effort"? I don't know if anyone is disagreeing with you there. It sounds like you're seeking a debate that doesn't really exist because you haven't clearly explained the intended context of your scenarios.

[Shining One]

OP, what are trying to learn from this thread?

I've seen women on quite a few threads here as labelling men who cook dinner for their dates as lazy and putting in no/little effort. The purpose of this thread is to understand how they are drawing this conclusion. I used the coffee example as an obvious low-effort comparison which I don't see being labelled as lazy or no effort nearly as often.

 

I've actually gained some good insight thanks to two posters here.

[rester]

I've seen women on quite a few threads here as labelling men who cook dinner for their dates as lazy and putting in no/little effort. The purpose of this thread is to understand how they are drawing this conclusion. I used the coffee example as an obvious low-effort comparison which I don't see being labelled as lazy or no effort nearly as often.

 

I've actually gained some good insight thanks to two posters here.

 

I can't speak for others but the "effort" they may be talking about is effort put towards a relationship, and not the task oriented physical effort you may be thinking about.

 

Maybe this example will help: back in the early 2000s, well before "Netflix and chill", I had a good friend and we both found ourselves single at the same time. About once a week one of us would cook the other dinner. We would have a couple drinks, watch tv or a movie, talk about our lives, and often (but not always) have sex. On weekends we would go our own way and neither of us at the time put "effort" into forming a relationship or integrating our lives. We knew as soon as one of us met someone else that the dinner nights would have to stop.

 

We both love to cook so a lot of work/effort was put into cooking the dinners, but there was no working towards a relationship involved. Most nights it would have been easier and cheaper to go to a restaurant but that seemed like too much "work".

[d0nnivain]

I've seen women on quite a few threads here as labelling men who cook dinner for their dates as lazy and putting in no/little effort.

 

 

Shining One -- To the best of my knowledge the last thread that appeared before your post where most LSers labeled the guy lazy for inviting the woman over did not involved dinner. Netflix & chill was substituted for dinner on a 1st date. No food & even less effort was being put forth by the guy in that thread. His ask was a thinly disguised request for FWB.

 

 

Your invitation to dinner does require effort on your part.

 

 

The "lazy" and or "entitled" mentality voiced by many women comes from the lack of effort on the guy's part in not leaving his house to meet her. When a gentleman meets her half way at the location or picks her up, that is the "effort" that seems to be eluding you. The later isn't going to happen before a woman feels safe enough to have the guy come to her house. Similarly without that safety factor, many women won't go to a guy's house early on.

[NuevoYorko]

Guys asking women over to our homes is generally perceived as "Netflix and chill" and a code for SEX. They have no idea how much trouble we are actually planning to go to in the creation of a meal. Basically, it just sounds lazy. I wouldn't go there unless already well into dating a woman.

[Imajerk17]

The problem with this OP, is that

 

1. When you invite a woman over, she has no idea whether you will cook a special dinner that you spent all this time preparing for, OR if you will just serve what you yourself normally eat every night, or if you will just "Netflix and chill". The latter is tends to be more common.

 

2. Besides the expectations of sex/physical activity, there is also a safety/comfort thing. Not just whether you are a rapist but whether or not you have good hygiene. It's hard to feel comfortable or safe in a place if it is dirty and you feel a risk of getting e.g., food poisoning.

[No_Go]

Scenario 1 for first date: man looking for sex before even meeting ...

Scenario 2 for first date: man testing is there a connection without investing too much effort

 

Scenario 1 in early dating: man looking for sex, not looking to get to know the date, low effort

Scenario 2 in early dating: man looking for a cheap date but at least keeping boundaries and allowing for conversation, some effort

 

Scenario 1 in an established relationship: normal date, higher effort

Scenario 2 in an established relationship: normal date, lower effort

 

i.e. you see it all depends on where you are in the process

 

I've seen this come up in many other threads. This is a question primarily for the ladies, but input from all is welcome. How do you measure the level of effort put into dates?

 

Scenario 1

Person A invites Person B over to their home to watch TV/Movies. Person A handles all hosting responsibilities, which includes cooking dinner, providing drinks, and all cleanup. All Person B had to do was get there.

 

Scenario 2

Person A invites Person B out for coffee. They meet up at a coffee shop halfway between them. Person A pays for the coffee and snacks.

 

I often see Person A in Scenario 1 being described as lazy and putting in zero effort, which is clearly hyperbole. Having been Person A in both scenarios, I can objectively say that Scenario 1 is more effort for me. However, many ladies here consider it as lazy while Scenario 2 is seen as not (or at least less) lazy.

[Brieanne]

Scenario A shows a lot of effort on the part of the man. I'd much rather stay in and kick back and take my shoes off and watch a movie or listen to great music and eat a good meal with somebody who I'm attracted to than go out and have coffee. That sounds boring.

 

Exactly!! I would love the Scenario 1 date (Person A is the guy, and I'm B). In fact, that is exactly the date I have tonight with a guy! I'm going over to his house for dinner, and we're going to listen to music and cuddle the rest of the evening.

[VeveCakes]

On a first date first time meeting?

[johngalt1149]

No way would a self respecting lady go to some ones home she never met before....That's what murder mysteries are about. Doesn't mean you wouldn't meet and decide that you want to go, but I'm sure you'd need to meet and get a warm and fuzzy if that was your thing.

[gaius]

I don't know about you, but I spend more on hosting dinner for someone than I do for coffee. The ingredients for the food are more than coffee by itself, even if I don't include the drinks I buy specifically for my date. Thus, if money is factored into the effort calculation, I don't see how a coffee date is seen as higher effort than a decent home-cooked meal.

I actually just took Timshel out for a lunch date downtown today. It was a new place I found online that we hadn't been to before, even figured out parking and brought some cash to pay with unlike some lesser men. We walked around a little before we left and enjoyed ourselves. It was a experience you can't really replicate at home and even thought it was very reasonable I paid more than I would have for a meal at home. Unless I was making caviar or something.

 

Nobody claims coffee is some kind of great effort on the guys part. It's generally what guys who are too poor or just don't want to put in the time and effort for dinner do for the first date to keep it low risk. You're comparing apples and oranges.

[BG1]

Scenario 1. If I was cooking for someone, I would have to buy the ingredients, think about what the other person may like, you are opening the doors to your house to them. Meaning you are revealing a lot of yourself and it's clearly a better way to know each other.

Anyone can buy a coffee or snacks, not many can organise and cook a nice dinner.

Good cooking skills are very appreciated by women