One Sided Reconciliation?

[Mrs. John Adams]

You are most certainly wrong. I am very remorseful and carry a lot of guilt. However, she had her role to play as well. She has could shouldered me for months and that's not fair after what she did.

 

I gave her time and space. She doesn't take the counseling seriously and makes fun of it. She sits on the couch all day and smokes. And I'm the bad guy? Yes, I started it. I moved out before anything happened. I was done (in my head), got drunk and had an awful weekend. Immediately went home with guilt and rage at myself and confessed everything.

 

I am not trying to claim moral superiority or any of the such. I am simply stating my desire to go back to normal, I have not demanded this from my wife. I have been quite caring and compassionate with her during this and supportive.

 

I am doing my best but it feels like I am drowning and don't know what to do. I understand it takes a while to heal. I get it. I need to heal (both my guilt and my feelings of betrayal) as well. I don't buy just because I did it first it's all my fault and I have to cater to her feelings only.

 

We have both been brought hell and it seems like I am the only one fighting to hold it together for our family and each other. Simply seeking advise on how to handle the situation, if it can even be resolved - ever.

 

I am starting to lose faith and doubt everything.

 

your words tell us you are not remorseful....you see remorse means you are more concerend with the pain you have caused her than the pain she has caused you

 

Have you read the linda macdonald book?

 

You may think you have acheived remorse in 5 months...but no you have not. regret sorrow guilt...but not remorse.

 

At this point...it should be all about what you can do for HER and not about what you NEED from her. You caused this...you sent her into a state of complete despair. Take that responsibility. Now...she is absolutley responsible for her choice....but you caused it. YOu gave her time and space? How much time? Do you think you GET OVER your spouse screwing around in a few weeks? Good grief.

 

listen...we can sit here for days and try to show you how the things you are saying tell us where your head is...but lets be honest here...you are completely self absorbed and have already convinced yourself you are the good guy and she is the bad guy

 

Just file for divorce...because honestly...it is most likely the best choice

 

 

Good luck to you and your wife....I hope she eventually heals and can move forward

 

You already have

[road]

Recovery is a two to five year process with no guarantees for success.

 

If you can't handle the time frame then just divorce her for there is no

way to speed up the process.

[lolablue17]

feelings cannot be measured and calculated with logic.

 

Having that said, we live in a world in which grownups take responsibility for their actions. This is how the world goes. You can't go and killing people, while using the excuse of having a horrible childhood in your past. Even though it might be the true. and maybe your horrible childhood is the real reason for your killing, but any judge in any court will still convict you and send you to jail.

 

Even if he just have had only a short drunk kiss, and she have had a full affair, she still might be hurt 10 times than him. Because you can't measure feelings. But again, in our world in the end of the day, grownups take responsibility for their decisions.

 

The minute she took the decision to have a full affair with his friend, as a grownup, she lost her right to shift all responsibility towards him, no matter how much pain she still feels. You can't run a nuclear war, throwing atomic bombs, and saying you're not responsible because he threw the first bomb. many couples use to have Loud ugly arguments. Theses are the things I tell my wife... You can't say 20 ugly statements against me in a conversation, and getting away with responsibility because I STARTED... When nuclear bombs are flying all over, it really doesn't matter who started.

 

OP, as I thought before, if she is not mentally able to take responsibility in any direction, you should stand up and do it. There's a time when you have to admit that this patient is dead, and can't be saved, so do yourself and her a favor, and redeem the both of you from this endless torments. You decide when.

[Mr Blunt]

Saddad44

I have read your posts and you did a good job of telling us how bad your wife is. That will NOT get you any better; in fact it will make you worse!

 

You said that you forgive her but you do not know what forgiveness is or it is just another one of your attempts to convince yourself or others. I know you have not forgiven your wife because you have stated

“I have gotten to the point of such internal anger and resentment that I'm starting to lose faith and any care that I had.”

Part of forgiveness is that you no longer have hate and resentment of the offender and you have failed in that criterion so far.

 

You also stated

“I do still have a lot of anger inside me that hasn't been dealt with because I've been too busy trying to figure her out”

In your situation, you could best spend your time and efforts in figuring yourself out and not wasting time focusing on your wife. You both are so hurt and weak that you can only help and change yourself. I realize that you want to get back the life you had before any betrayals but that is not possible at this time. Mrs. John Adams made a very important statement to you in a previous post and that statement is reprinted below:

 

....you see remorse means you are more concerned with the pain you have caused her than the pain she has caused you

.

That truth above means that you are not remorseful nor is she. So what do you have left and what are the best actions you can take? You can diligently work on yourself to become the best man you can be without you trying to change your wife. You trying to change your wife will take away from the most important thing you can do right now and that is for you to work on you. Get all the help that you can get and then TAKE THE POSITIVE ACTIONS that will make you a better man and father. By the way, when I worked on myself, got stronger, and allowed my WS to deal with herself she finally got a glimpse of reality and changed for the better. Your situation is not exactly like mine but the point I am making is that when you become a better man other people respond positively towards you.

 

The current state that you are in and your wife is in makes it impossible for you two to heal your betrayals. For now you can only work on yourself.

 

I am afraid that you are so desperate to get your life back that you had before that you will not listen to experienced people like Mrs. John Adams and the other experienced people that have posted on your thread. It is very hard to face the harsh consequences that come from betrayal but there is no easy way other than giving 100% to improving yourself for YEARS. When you fall down then get back up and never give up on improving yourself because you are a very important person to your child.

[NTV]

So what I see is that you are at a point where you want to save the marriage despite everything but are not sure how to go about doing so.

 

The reason I brought up the postnup is that it is a legal vehicle that could include an infidelity clause that could apply to both of you. Definitely not something you want to go into without talking to her about, but it could be that if there is a financial penalty for further infidelity on both your parts then it could serve as a deterent.

Additionally it could serve as a vehicle to set the clock back... not emotionally that's a total different story but if both of you are hurting and distrustful it would be a recognition of the some of the damage wrought as well as a ceremonial reboot to reconciliation.

Something to think about. Remember she can't trust you either right now and trust is the biggest pillar of a good marriage.

[saddad44]

Saddad44

I have read your posts and you did a good job of telling us how bad your wife is. That will NOT get you any better; in fact it will make you worse!

 

You said that you forgive her but you do not know what forgiveness is or it is just another one of your attempts to convince yourself or others. I know you have not forgiven your wife because you have stated

“I have gotten to the point of such internal anger and resentment that I'm starting to lose faith and any care that I had.”

Part of forgiveness is that you no longer have hate and resentment of the offender and you have failed in that criterion so far.

 

You also stated

“I do still have a lot of anger inside me that hasn't been dealt with because I've been too busy trying to figure her out”

In your situation, you could best spend your time and efforts in figuring yourself out and not wasting time focusing on your wife. You both are so hurt and weak that you can only help and change yourself. I realize that you want to get back the life you had before any betrayals but that is not possible at this time. Mrs. John Adams made a very important statement to you in a previous post and that statement is reprinted below:

 

....you see remorse means you are more concerned with the pain you have caused her than the pain she has caused you

.

That truth above means that you are not remorseful nor is she. So what do you have left and what are the best actions you can take? You can diligently work on yourself to become the best man you can be without you trying to change your wife. You trying to change your wife will take away from the most important thing you can do right now and that is for you to work on you. Get all the help that you can get and then TAKE THE POSITIVE ACTIONS that will make you a better man and father. By the way, when I worked on myself, got stronger, and allowed my WS to deal with herself she finally got a glimpse of reality and changed for the better. Your situation is not exactly like mine but the point I am making is that when you become a better man other people respond positively towards you.

 

The current state that you are in and your wife is in makes it impossible for you two to heal your betrayals. For now you can only work on yourself.

 

I am afraid that you are so desperate to get your life back that you had before that you will not listen to experienced people like Mrs. John Adams and the other experienced people that have posted on your thread. It is very hard to face the harsh consequences that come from betrayal but there is no easy way other than giving 100% to improving yourself for YEARS. When you fall down then get back up and never give up on improving yourself because you are a very important person to your child.

 

Thank you to everyone for their great and thoughtful advise!

 

I really appreciate you all taking the time out of your lives to help me.

 

I have been bettering myself, reading a lot of self help books, I am in IC and MC. I am currently reading 'Codependence no more' and my next book will be 'No More Mr. Nice Guy'. After speaking with others on another forum, it's quite obvious I am an extremely codependent person. I need to fix this about myself and am making strides.

 

This whole situation is so uncharacteristic of me. Not in a million years would I cheat on someone, I never have in any of my other relationships. I am so angry with myself for doing it. I wish I had a time machine. I don't even remember it, not because I was blacked out or anything, my doctor has put me on some anti-depressants. I had never taken any before in my life, and I had a really bad adverse reaction to them. It made me crazy for about 2 months. Right in the middle of all of this happening. No excuses for what I did, but I really do blame it a lot on that. I am an extremely loyal person (to a fault, read above about my codependency issues).

 

I understand that we aren't in a place to be healed, I just really hoped for a little progress here and there. And it's really a hard task to shoulder the entire burden of our marriage, our household, and everything that goes along with it while I am also in pain, that apparently I'm not entitled to.

 

I don't know if I can do it. I don't know if I can wait around 3-5 years just to see if she snaps out of it. That is a lot to ask and difficult. I don't even know if she isn't still cheating on me. I have my suspicions, probably just my paranoia. I said earlier I didn't think she was, but I kind of thought about it more and looked up some of the red flag signs and she displays many of them.

 

I feel like I can't leave my house, she made me drop all of my friends when I confessed in January. I have no support system or external help. This is impossible.

 

Ugh.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Thank you to everyone for their great and thoughtful advise!

 

I really appreciate you all taking the time out of your lives to help me.

 

I have been bettering myself, reading a lot of self help books, I am in IC and MC. I am currently reading 'Codependence no more' and my next book will be 'No More Mr. Nice Guy'. After speaking with others on another forum, it's quite obvious I am an extremely codependent person. I need to fix this about myself and am making strides.

 

This whole situation is so uncharacteristic of me. Not in a million years would I cheat on someone, I never have in any of my other relationships. I am so angry with myself for doing it. I wish I had a time machine. I don't even remember it, not because I was blacked out or anything, my doctor has put me on some anti-depressants. I had never taken any before in my life, and I had a really bad adverse reaction to them. It made me crazy for about 2 months. Right in the middle of all of this happening. No excuses for what I did, but I really do blame it a lot on that. I am an extremely loyal person (to a fault, read above about my codependency issues).

 

I understand that we aren't in a place to be healed, I just really hoped for a little progress here and there. And it's really a hard task to shoulder the entire burden of our marriage, our household, and everything that goes along with it while I am also in pain, that apparently I'm not entitled to.

 

I don't know if I can do it. I don't know if I can wait around 3-5 years just to see if she snaps out of it. That is a lot to ask and difficult. I don't even know if she isn't still cheating on me. I have my suspicions, probably just my paranoia. I said earlier I didn't think she was, but I kind of thought about it more and looked up some of the red flag signs and she displays many of them.

 

I feel like I can't leave my house, she made me drop all of my friends when I confessed in January. I have no support system or external help. This is impossible.

 

Ugh.

 

We do need to find help to improve ourselves...and I commend you for doing that.

 

The book I recommended will help you to understand your wife's mindset.

 

If indeed you want to heal your marriage...then it is also important to work on the relationship as a whole...not just you.

 

I am not blaming you for her behavior...I am blaming you for the situation...please know where i am coming from. In addition know that I have walked in a similar path. Your opening statement said is there anyone who has been successful? and I am here to tell you there is hope...but you have to be willing to listen to opinions that may differ from your already made up mind.

 

If you are not willing to listen to those who have been successful....then why ask? Or do you only want those who have been successful who agree with your post to answer? You are likely to not have any takers.

 

2-5 years is the average time it takes...and you have stated you dont know if you can wait that long. She has to wait that long too. Is she willing to put in the work required?

 

You both have to do this together...but you both also have to give each other a little time.

 

Lets say... instead of being faced with your infidelity she was faced with witnessing a murder....and she is suffering from ptsd. The doctor tells you...I am pretty sure we can get her through this...but it is going to be a long slow process....and it is going to take a lot of work and maybe even medication to do so.

 

Would you be willing to wait for her? Would you stand by her side? Would you do everything in your power to help her?

 

This is your life right now. The old life is gone.

 

Your wife is in a battle of deep depression. She has been devastated and she is reacting very poorly. She is responsible for her behavior...but right now...she just doesn't care.

 

Please read the book I recommended. It is 95 pages long....and i really think it may open your eyes a bit to her healing.

 

I will leave you alone. You will get plenty of help from others here...there are a lot of really good people.

 

Warm wishes for healing

Edited May 11, 2017 by Mrs. John Adams

[understand50]

saddad44,

 

To add to what Mrs JA and other have said, I going to speak to you about being a man. I am not saying you are not a man, or somehow less then myself or others here, but I will point out, that is life, there are times when one has to step up. Bear the hard parts of life for those they love and for those they brought into this world. This is not a popular stance, in the "Everything must be for me and only me" mentality. In the end the strong man, who sees things trough, being it marriage, a job, a task, or just keeping his word, does better, feels better, and does not have any regrets.

 

He is not a door mat, but by his actions and force of character, makes others better. An example is Mrs JA. If you read her and her husbands posts on LS, you will find that John, forgave his wife, and then worked with her until they arrived at a better place. Myself, I saw that something in my then G/F, that allowed me to make a wonderful life with her. I have stated, that Betrayed spouses who reconcile and make a success of it are stronger then the wondering spouse. In your case you are both, but do not let your mistake destroy what you and your wife have made. Digg deep find that strength, and help both of you to overcome this. It can be done. Don't get me wrong, sometime divorce is the only path, but it is taken when all else fails, and then done in the most kind fashion that can be had at the time.

 

Do you want to be one of the many who just divorce? or one of the few who keeps it together, and finds in reconciliation a better future?

 

I wish you luck......

[saddad44]

We do need to find help to improve ourselves...and I commend you for doing that.

 

The book I recommended will help you to understand your wife's mindset.

 

If indeed you want to heal your marriage...then it is also important to work on the relationship as a whole...not just you.

 

I am not blaming you for her behavior...I am blaming you for the situation...please know where i am coming from. In addition know that I have walked in a similar path. Your opening statement said is there anyone who has been successful? and I am here to tell you there is hope...but you have to be willing to listen to opinions that may differ from your already made up mind.

 

If you are not willing to listen to those who have been successful....then why ask? Or do you only want those who have been successful who agree with your post to answer? You are likely to not have any takers.

 

2-5 years is the average time it takes...and you have stated you dont know if you can wait that long. She has to wait that long too. Is she willing to put in the work required?

 

You both have to do this together...but you both also have to give each other a little time.

 

Lets say... instead of being faced with your infidelity she was faced with witnessing a murder....and she is suffering from ptsd. The doctor tells you...I am pretty sure we can get her through this...but it is going to be a long slow process....and it is going to take a lot of work and maybe even medication to do so.

 

Would you be willing to wait for her? Would you stand by her side? Would you do everything in your power to help her?

 

This is your life right now. The old life is gone.

 

Your wife is in a battle of deep depression. She has been devastated and she is reacting very poorly. She is responsible for her behavior...but right now...she just doesn't care.

 

Please read the book I recommended. It is 95 pages long....and i really think it may open your eyes a bit to her healing.

 

I will leave you alone. You will get plenty of help from others here...there are a lot of really good people.

 

Warm wishes for healing

 

Please don't leave me alone, you seem to be the most qualified to help!

 

Sorry if I come off defensive, attitude doesn't always come through well over forums.

 

I understand that it takes 2-5 years to heal. I am not asking for healing, or instant results, I am asking for progress, or a sign of a 2 way street - something that gives me hope that she wants to reconcile.

 

"I'm still here" is not an answer that gives me any hope.

 

Yes, I would wait around for her. She has been my world for over 20 years. Even when we went our separate ways as teenagers, I always thought about her. We were our first bf/gf type crap. We did go off and experience our own lives for a long period of time (dating around 18/19 and then splitting up and getting in LTR with others, and getting back together and married at 23). But she was always my #1 in my heart. I always knew she was my girl.

 

But I fear this has changed her into a person I don't know and I don't know if I like the new person. I guess that's where the 'time' comes in. The way she is acting, the way she talks about the future. I don't know if its just her anger talking or what the deal is, but that's not the girl I know. She gaslights me into trying to think our entire marriage was a big sham and horrible, when we both know it wasn't. We had our ups and downs - but primarily ups. We had sex, a great relationship, and only had a very small handful of reoccurring issues that never got resolved. We have (so far) raised an amazing and smart son, very well rounded, perfect grades at school, etc.

 

This is a forum where *I* get to vent for once, because I can't do it at home or to anyone in the real world. I feel like her actions are throwing away our family and are quite selfish. And I'm sure you will say that's selfish of ME to think like that, and it is. However, I feel like at some point we have to transcend ourselves and think about our family, ourselves and our son.

 

We cannot reconcile when only one side wants to or shows effort. I don't see how that can be possible. I just don't see it. And yes, I know I am being impatient, I understand that. My therapist suggested that I try to 'detach'. And I have tried some of those tactics, but it just makes it worse. You're right - in her eyes there is nothing I can do that is right. I have tried everything I can think of, I have followed various forums advise, therapists advise, self help books advise - nothing.

 

I do think she needs medication. She has severe ADHD and I think she suffers from depression. When we got married she was on some medicine, but had to stop taking it when she got pregnant and never got back on it. She refuses to take anything now, and says she self medicates with marijuana. I think it makes it worse.

[JohnAdams]

I think your wife is reacting to the hand you dealt her. Yes, in her mind, she is likely questioning if your whole marriage was nothing but a sham. When you live 10-20 years with a person, you think you know them and then bam, you show them the ultimate in betrayal and disrespect. This is what you did to your wife. I am certain she is not thinking straight. She probably even had her affair somewhat hoping to just end the marriage. She may have gone from a person who would never cheat to a person questioning if her values and principles meant anything. She is probably just going through the motions of life and all of this was created by you and your selfish affair.

 

 

Unfortunately, after my wife's affair it was the pre-internet days, so no forums for support. We were not aware of books to help us. We tried counseling and unfortunately we had a terrible counselor. So, for the most part, her affair was rug swept except for the times I went into a deep depression. I ended up having a revenge affair. I confesses somewhat hoping she would kick me out. I wanted to end it yet I did not want to end it. Possibly where your wife's head is right now.

 

 

So we lived a happy life with the ever present elephant in the room. I thought of our marriage in two parts, pre-affair and after affair. The period during the affair to me was just one big lie. I often wondered if our marriage was a sham. But, like I said, for the most part a great life with that darn elephant.

 

 

For the most part, over the years we did not discuss the affairs. I always thought my wife was sorry, regretted the affair and loved me. However, I really never thought she had remorse over what she did. A few years ago, after joining another forum, we had some heart to heart discussions. Read the book on How to Help Your Spouse Recover from your Affair and could better look at the situation. I have no doubt my wife is remorseful. I no longer look at our marriage as before and after. I can happily recall memories of our first 10 years of marriage. I will admit, there are still triggers. There are still bouts of depression that creeps in. But, overall life is good.

 

 

I think early on we would have thought 2-5 years sounded like forever. I even remember my wife early on saying I do not want this thrown in my face in 5 years. We wish we could have been in the 2-5 years range instead of 30 years. The 2-5 years is if things go well and you both do the required work.

 

 

Right now, you both have a lot of issues. It is going to take time to work through them. Will you succeed? It is a gamble. You threw the first bomb, you have to accept it is going to take her a long time. She reacted poorly, relatively quickly. You two are really in a bad place. It is going to take a lot of time, work and patience.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Ok

 

I can only tell you what we did... and god knows we have a made a ton of mistakes.

 

I took my husband to our dr. He was a zombie and I even told her what I had done to him. She looked at me and said shame on you. Yeah... my dr all my life said that to me... and she looked at him with compassion on her face and gave him a shot and some pills and told me to put him to bed. He was not sleeping...

When I say ptsd.. I am serious. Finding out the person you love more than anything doesn't love you as much as you thought they did is like a death.

 

So he took some anti depressants for a couple of months.

 

He told his boss what I had done because he just could not function.

 

This all went on for about a year. He was sad.. deeply deeply sad.

 

We did go to a therapist about two months after my affair and we probably went for two months.. separately. The last time we went... she told my husband that my affair was his fault... that he was not giving me what I needed.

 

He was so angry... and he told me what she said and we decided together to never go back.

 

I know you are in therapy.. make sure it is a therapist who specializes in infidelity. We did not and it was a huge mistake. Listen to your therapist... if at any time he places blame on your wife get out.

 

I told you at two years he had an affair. A calculated thought out revenge affair.

It was brief and he did not have intercourse... and he confessed. It broke my heart but I understood.

 

And for the next 28 years we lived life... I tried to do my best but we did not have internet and cell phones like we do now. There was no loveshack. So many would say we did a lot of rug sweeping.

 

Don't make the mistakes we did.

 

My first concern right now is your wife's mental health... she is 5 months from your affair and three months from her own. I don't like her behavior and I am truly concerned for her.

 

My husband contemplated suicide for a very long time. Please address her mental issues right now. You can work on the marriage after you get her feeling better.

 

The answer she gave you... I am still here... sounds negative to you... but I heard those same words. And it speaks volumes from someone who is so very broken. In other words.. it's the best she can do today..

 

Embrace it because she is giving you hope. I am still here... did you hear it? I am still here.

 

Ok this is long enough for now.

 

I will go back and reread your previous post and glean more from it.

 

No one here wants you to fail... no one here wants you to give up.

 

We want you to do what is best for you... Whether it is reconciliation or divorce.

[Overtaxed]

Please don't leave me alone, you seem to be the most qualified to help!

 

Sorry if I come off defensive, attitude doesn't always come through well over forums.

 

I understand that it takes 2-5 years to heal. I am not asking for healing, or instant results, I am asking for progress, or a sign of a 2 way street - something that gives me hope that she wants to reconcile.

 

"I'm still here" is not an answer that gives me any hope.

 

Yes, I would wait around for her. She has been my world for over 20 years. Even when we went our separate ways as teenagers, I always thought about her. We were our first bf/gf type crap. We did go off and experience our own lives for a long period of time (dating around 18/19 and then splitting up and getting in LTR with others, and getting back together and married at 23). But she was always my #1 in my heart. I always knew she was my girl.

 

But I fear this has changed her into a person I don't know and I don't know if I like the new person. I guess that's where the 'time' comes in. The way she is acting, the way she talks about the future. I don't know if its just her anger talking or what the deal is, but that's not the girl I know. She gaslights me into trying to think our entire marriage was a big sham and horrible, when we both know it wasn't. We had our ups and downs - but primarily ups. We had sex, a great relationship, and only had a very small handful of reoccurring issues that never got resolved. We have (so far) raised an amazing and smart son, very well rounded, perfect grades at school, etc.

 

This is a forum where *I* get to vent for once, because I can't do it at home or to anyone in the real world. I feel like her actions are throwing away our family and are quite selfish. And I'm sure you will say that's selfish of ME to think like that, and it is. However, I feel like at some point we have to transcend ourselves and think about our family, ourselves and our son.

 

We cannot reconcile when only one side wants to or shows effort. I don't see how that can be possible. I just don't see it. And yes, I know I am being impatient, I understand that. My therapist suggested that I try to 'detach'. And I have tried some of those tactics, but it just makes it worse. You're right - in her eyes there is nothing I can do that is right. I have tried everything I can think of, I have followed various forums advise, therapists advise, self help books advise - nothing.

 

I do think she needs medication. She has severe ADHD and I think she suffers from depression. When we got married she was on some medicine, but had to stop taking it when she got pregnant and never got back on it. She refuses to take anything now, and says she self medicates with marijuana. I think it makes it worse.

 

Well, you've got both Mrs and Mr. JA on your thread, so I feel very unqualified (d-day 4 months ago) to comment; there are a lot of more experienced people here than I in R. However, you did say something above that I saw in my W, and I thought might help.

 

Simply put, the A fog is thick. Incredibly thick. See, I have the "benefit" (and the horror) of seeing pretty much "everything" that happened. I attacked all the accounts of both her and AP (and got them), phones, apps. All of it. And I laid it all down against our e-mails back and forth, pictures from those time periods, her e-mails to other people she trusted. All of it.

 

And what I can tell you, the fog is thick. A week before the A started, she was talking to a fried about how excited she was to move to the home that we had just purchased. We were planning our vacation together, and e-mailing and TXTing all kinds of fun things to one another. 2 weeks after the A started, she sent an e-mail to her mother telling her "I was changing" and she didn't get me. 1 week after they had sex, she sent an e-mail to her mother describing me as a monster without feeling/care for her. She had a breakdown with my mother about the same time frame. There are 100's of examples of this through the period of my W's very brief A, the gaslighting, the turning things around, etc.

 

Thing is, the minute she made that decision to enter an A, the fog came down. It totally clouded her view of the world, of us, our future together, and of me. It was just shocking to me how fast it happened, it was literally weeks from "I love my husband" to "I need to get a divorce" (not said literally, but reading the emotion behind the messages and actions). Your spouse is in this same fog. They can't see anything except the A, they can't contemplate the consequences, they can't see what they are throwing away. They are literally blind walking through life.

 

I guess this is my way of saying, don't give up just because of this. My W continued to lie after d-day, continued to minimize, and still, to this day, throws some of it in my face. It's a long process, one that I've just started and you're even earlier in.

 

The only way I can make sense of it, if someone is drunk and being an a**hole, but then, when they are sober, is always a great guy, is the drunk them the "real person" or do they just have a problem with drinking? I think it's primarily the latter, and, in an A, I think the analogy holds. They are drunk, and now they are drying out, and that's not a pretty process. Expect setbacks and expect them to want to get drunk again. Just don't tolerate it if they do, because, at that point, your enabling, not helping.

[saddad44]

Ok

 

I can only tell you what we did... and god knows we have a made a ton of mistakes.

 

I took my husband to our dr. He was a zombie and I even told her what I had done to him. She looked at me and said shame on you. Yeah... my dr all my life said that to me... and she looked at him with compassion on her face and gave him a shot and some pills and told me to put him to bed. He was not sleeping...

When I say ptsd.. I am serious. Finding out the person you love more than anything doesn't love you as much as you thought they did is like a death.

 

So he took some anti depressants for a couple of months.

 

He told his boss what I had done because he just could not function.

 

This all went on for about a year. He was sad.. deeply deeply sad.

 

We did go to a therapist about two months after my affair and we probably went for two months.. separately. The last time we went... she told my husband that my affair was his fault... that he was not giving me what I needed.

 

He was so angry... and he told me what she said and we decided together to never go back.

 

I know you are in therapy.. make sure it is a therapist who specializes in infidelity. We did not and it was a huge mistake. Listen to your therapist... if at any time he places blame on your wife get out.

 

I told you at two years he had an affair. A calculated thought out revenge affair.

It was brief and he did not have intercourse... and he confessed. It broke my heart but I understood.

 

And for the next 28 years we lived life... I tried to do my best but we did not have internet and cell phones like we do now. There was no loveshack. So many would say we did a lot of rug sweeping.

 

Don't make the mistakes we did.

 

My first concern right now is your wife's mental health... she is 5 months from your affair and three months from her own. I don't like her behavior and I am truly concerned for her.

 

My husband contemplated suicide for a very long time. Please address her mental issues right now. You can work on the marriage after you get her feeling better.

 

The answer she gave you... I am still here... sounds negative to you... but I heard those same words. And it speaks volumes from someone who is so very broken. In other words.. it's the best she can do today..

 

Embrace it because she is giving you hope. I am still here... did you hear it? I am still here.

 

Ok this is long enough for now.

 

I will go back and reread your previous post and glean more from it.

 

No one here wants you to fail... no one here wants you to give up.

 

We want you to do what is best for you... Whether it is reconciliation or divorce.

 

Thank you for that. I can't imagine dealing with all of this without the support of forums like this. We have been to MC 10 times now. His approach is the 'long game' basically. He has been working on our communications (he says the way we each communicate is so far off, we have to find a middle ground). And we haven't really addressed the affairs, the causes or any of that. He is a highly recommended couples counselor who specializes in affairs. He is very unbiased and has never placed blame or taken sides on any issue. He has, however, told us when we were doing something destructive.

 

For example, when we first started (a week after hers ended, it went on 5 weeks) - I was really upset, I was hurt, I was still feeling guilty, etc etc. My wife did NOT want to talk about ANY of it. Any of the relationship, any of the affairs, nothing. All I wanted to do was talk about it, so I would. He told us to stop that and I needed to try my best not to bring it up. So I did that for 4 weeks. After the 5th week, he told my wife it was time for her to start meeting me half way, and discuss it SOME, meeting me half way in the reconciliation in terms of emotionally and physically (as long as she was comfortable).

 

Her big thing was that she didn't want to do anything that didn't feel 'natural' or she uses the word 'organic' a lot. Still does. The counselor is trying (and still trying) to explain that organic happens over time when you do it and try it over and over again, it becomes normal again.

 

Does that sound like the correct advise? She isn't really following it very much, but I am curious.

 

I was always the kind of person with the 'if you cheat on me it's over' type of mindset. I know the way I think. I will likely never get over it (mine or hers), now that doesn't mean I can't live with it, be happy etc. But I do know myself, I will be able to beat it.

 

My wife is the opposite, she shuts people out for the length of time that it takes to get over it. Then it's like it never happened to her. That is the period I am in, the 'shutting out' period. It's absolute torture to me. A lot of the issues she has expressed I find hard to fix with the way we are living. I understand how difficult it is for everything. And the situation seems impossible.

 

I just wonder a lot if it wouldn't be better to just D and let us both start fresh and try for happiness? I don't know the right answer. I am extremely depressed, full of anxiety to the point of my doctor giving me medicine for it (never been on meds before). This whole thing is emotionally killing me and I don't want it to. This is where my mind is. Should I stay or should I go? That is the big question.

 

I have zero interest in hurting my wife anymore than I already have. But I also have no interest in living in hurt myself either (even if I do deserve it). But when I think about divorce, going through the process - that doesn't scare me. What scares me is sitting down our 9 year old and telling him Mommy and Daddy are not going to be together. That absolutely breaks my heart and it made me cry just typing it.

 

What a hell of a situation I have created.

 

I will pick up the book you have suggested a few times and read it once I finish the book I am currently reading about my codependency problems.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I can't make the call for you but you might be right. There may be way too much damage in the relationship to repair.

 

But you do realize that your wife needs to be healthy whether you divorce or not. She is the mother of your child. You want her healthy.

 

I think that maybe you should both be doing individual therapy for now. I don't think she is ready for marriage therapy... but I am no expert on the subject and maybe others with more experience with this will chime in with advice.

 

But the picture you have painted of her is one of a very broken person. And it breaks my heart.

 

Can I ask some some personal questions please?

Does she allow you to hold her? And if she does.. does she hold you back? Or is she withholding?

 

Does she cry? Does she laugh at inappropriate times? Does she get angry and lash out?

 

How does she act with your son?

 

Have you confided in her parents? Or your parents?

 

We confided in my parents. I told my mom before I told John... and she was so helpful to us.

 

You need someone who loves you both to give you both compassion.

 

Are you involved in a church of any kind? Do you have clergy you feel comfortable sharing with?

[saddad44]

Well, you've got both Mrs and Mr. JA on your thread, so I feel very unqualified (d-day 4 months ago) to comment; there are a lot of more experienced people here than I in R. However, you did say something above that I saw in my W, and I thought might help.

 

Simply put, the A fog is thick. Incredibly thick. See, I have the "benefit" (and the horror) of seeing pretty much "everything" that happened. I attacked all the accounts of both her and AP (and got them), phones, apps. All of it. And I laid it all down against our e-mails back and forth, pictures from those time periods, her e-mails to other people she trusted. All of it.

 

And what I can tell you, the fog is thick. A week before the A started, she was talking to a fried about how excited she was to move to the home that we had just purchased. We were planning our vacation together, and e-mailing and TXTing all kinds of fun things to one another. 2 weeks after the A started, she sent an e-mail to her mother telling her "I was changing" and she didn't get me. 1 week after they had sex, she sent an e-mail to her mother describing me as a monster without feeling/care for her. She had a breakdown with my mother about the same time frame. There are 100's of examples of this through the period of my W's very brief A, the gaslighting, the turning things around, etc.

 

Thing is, the minute she made that decision to enter an A, the fog came down. It totally clouded her view of the world, of us, our future together, and of me. It was just shocking to me how fast it happened, it was literally weeks from "I love my husband" to "I need to get a divorce" (not said literally, but reading the emotion behind the messages and actions). Your spouse is in this same fog. They can't see anything except the A, they can't contemplate the consequences, they can't see what they are throwing away. They are literally blind walking through life.

 

I guess this is my way of saying, don't give up just because of this. My W continued to lie after d-day, continued to minimize, and still, to this day, throws some of it in my face. It's a long process, one that I've just started and you're even earlier in.

 

The only way I can make sense of it, if someone is drunk and being an a**hole, but then, when they are sober, is always a great guy, is the drunk them the "real person" or do they just have a problem with drinking? I think it's primarily the latter, and, in an A, I think the analogy holds. They are drunk, and now they are drying out, and that's not a pretty process. Expect setbacks and expect them to want to get drunk again. Just don't tolerate it if they do, because, at that point, your enabling, not helping.

 

This is basically me. Seriously.

 

One second I was the best husband ever. She bragged about me.

 

Then afterwards, I was the scum of the earth, was horrible the entire marriage, was not affectionate, unemotional, etc etc. Sounds like a tough road we're walking down.

 

Are you choosing 100% to stay or are you still in limbo?

 

One thing that bothers me, is her whole family knows what I did, and lived through that embarrassment, but she refuses to tell anyone what she did and wants to keep it a secret. I know that might be petty, but it just kind of sucks being the complete bad guy here and getting looked down at.

 

Fun.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I saw in another thread that you regret confessing and my husband came back to you.

I don't want to comment on that particular thread anymore so my answer will be here.

 

I could have kept my mouth shut and no one would have ever known about my affair.

 

John could also have kept his mouth shut.

 

But we both did the right thing by confessing.

 

Because we gave the betrayed spouse the right to make the decision to stay or leave.

 

When we cheat... we make decisions for our spouse that will forever affect them and not in a good way.

 

Imagine if you don't tell and she finds out 3 years from now. What if at that point she reacted the same way she is acting now. Would you be willing to stay?

 

And there is always the possibility the infidelity will be disclosed ... the only way to not take that risk is to not cheat... right?

 

For many years I said to john... I wish I had never told you... and what he needed to hear was I wish I had never cheated.

 

It's all about how we say things. Please read the book I recommended. You can download it and read it in an hour.

[wmacbride]

OP,

when it comes to your wife, only she is responsible for her behavior, and unless she wants to change, she isn't going to. You can't "fix" her.

 

Be there for her if you can, support her and if you feel it, let her know you are on her side.

 

That's about all you can do, aside of working on yourself.

[Southern Sun]

I completely understand what you're saying.

 

I don't think either one was worse or better - they were both terrible mistakes. My issue is that she sees hers as the lesser of two evils, and continually reminds me of that.

 

She is gaslighting me into thinking our entire 10 year marriage was **** (it wasn't). Sure, we had our problems (what marriage doesn't?), but everyone always said we were the couple that was going to make it.

 

My issue is her complete selfish actions over the past 3 months. She has not gotten off the couch or out of bed. She is abusing marijuana heavily (I don't have a problem with pot, but when you smoke it all day every and won't stop, it's a problem). She has put forth zero effort in our relationship/reconciliation. She has said extremely hurtful things to me (I don't love you right now, I don't find you attractive right now, I have lost all respect for you, etc etc.).

 

This just doesn't seem like a good way to reconcile and seems childish. It's like she has regressed emotionally into a 16 year old. I do not say this kind of stuff to her, because I know it wouldn't help, just venting. I also know she has been through some pretty insane trauma emotionally. But the second she decided to have a five week affair with my friend, she inherited half responsibility towards the reconciliation process, in my opinion. A part she is refusing to participate in.

 

We haven't really had sex. Very little to no touching. We sleep in the same bed, but at opposite ends. We rarely talk during the day while I'm at work. She has almost complete shut down towards me. When she's around other people, she's her normal self. When she's around me, it's like she acts dead. It's almost like she is punishing me, showing me in front of me that she is fine around other people and ignoring me.

 

It's all very frustrating. And I don't know how long I can deal with it. It feels like it's destroying me, but for the sake of my marriage, my wife and my children, I feel like we owe it a good effort try to make it work, but I don't see how that can be successful when it's all one sided.

 

I have read many self help books, gone to MC, even when she didn't. etc. I feel like I am a better person and have a better perspective on life. However, I am sick of having to work, come home and clean the house, cook, etc. because she won't do anything. Now, I have been told I'm being a push over because I am doing everything like that - but I refuse to let my child live in such conditions or not have good dinners or a clean house, clean clothes etc. So, I will not stop making sure his needs are looked after.

 

Gah - what a situation.

 

For what it's worth - I have forgiven her actions as best I can without her showing remorse or responsibility. I do still have a lot of anger inside me that hasn't been dealt with because I've been too busy trying to figure her out. I have spent the last week or so trying to 'detach' from her emotionally, for my own benefit. I would call it a mild success - but I fear that is just going to end with a divorce.

 

So lost, confused. Counseling doesn't seem to be helping. Nothing does. Gah!

 

saddad - speaking as a former WW.

 

You seem all too happy to hand off "half" the responsibility for the perpetrator of infidelity here. Like, shoo! Thank God I'm not the only bad guy!

 

I do think you need to change your mindset...or if it's just not being communicated to us correctly here at LS, forgive me. But you need to remain in the mindset of the WS. You cheated. You are 100% the cheater.

 

I know that you too feel betrayed. It's a funny mix of emotions, to be sure. Ironically, I think WS who are not also cheated can have a feeling of betrayal anyway, due to the stuff that's happened in the marriage...or just due to projection.

 

I wanted to point something out - you said that before your affair, you moved out. Why? There was obviously something very wrong in your marriage before you cheated. I'm not saying that because I think it gives you an excuse to cheat. I'm pointing it out because I think it sounds like you two had many years of built-up resentments that you are not really acknowledging. Maybe you are talking about it in MC, but you aren't saying it here. That can KILL the affection in a marriage, the communication, everything. Ask me how I know!

 

What I see happening, in general, is that your marriage was breaking down long before your affairs; you left and cheated; you've come home and probably in the effort to reconcile your affair, not really addressed the reasons you left home in the first place; that means all the built-up anger and contempt and resentments still exist and are now probably WORSE because of the affair; in reaction your wife cheated on you; you want to hold her accountable but that's hard because you did this very thing; you want to call it WORSE than yours because of the length and the things she did, but she will buck that horse, believe me; she probably did the things she did with him because of the built-up resentment I've referred to (you don't want to have fun with a mate you're angry with); and now she feels 'trapped' back in a marriage that was all jacked up before the affairs even happened.

 

She may deep down want to stay married to you; or WANT to want it; but it's looking pretty bleak right now. Thus, her distancing.

 

It IS possible she is still in the affair or at least misses the feelings she got from being in the affair. I'm sure it was a hell of a break from the bad feelings inside the marriage. That is really something to think about. Why make your marriages so miserable that all you want to do is flee them with someone else? Again, no excuses. But it should be a wake-up call.

 

You are BOTH responsible for your own affairs. Right now she is still too angry to be remorseful. I do think you should give it time, but not without proper boundaries. Putting her on an allowance...that seems like a bad idea. Don't punish. I think you can clearly lay out your expectations and what you will and won't accept...but ONLY after you have taken FULL responsibility for what you've done, and ONLY after you've had some very honest conversations about what was happening in the marriage before you ever left home. Because to me, that is the root of the issue. Only then can she begin to feel real sorry for her part in this mess.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Southern Sun

[saddad44]

I can't make the call for you but you might be right. There may be way too much damage in the relationship to repair.

 

But you do realize that your wife needs to be healthy whether you divorce or not. She is the mother of your child. You want her healthy.

 

I think that maybe you should both be doing individual therapy for now. I don't think she is ready for marriage therapy... but I am no expert on the subject and maybe others with more experience with this will chime in with advice.

 

But the picture you have painted of her is one of a very broken person. And it breaks my heart.

 

Can I ask some some personal questions please?

Does she allow you to hold her? And if she does.. does she hold you back? Or is she withholding?

 

Does she cry? Does she laugh at inappropriate times? Does she get angry and lash out?

 

How does she act with your son?

 

Have you confided in her parents? Or your parents?

 

We confided in my parents. I told my mom before I told John... and she was so helpful to us.

 

You need someone who loves you both to give you both compassion.

 

Are you involved in a church of any kind? Do you have clergy you feel comfortable sharing with?

 

Does she allow you to hold her? And if she does.. does she hold you back? Or is she withholding?

 

There has been a few times where she held me, 90% of the time there is no contact. She withholds most of the time. We sleep in the same bed, but on opposite sides. Every now and then she will reach out and hold my hand when she's going to sleep. There have been a few times where she 'snuggled' up to me but it was rare. We even had sex this past weekend, but she was very drunk and kind of a pain in the ass about it (no pun intended). She actually apologized the next morning for being difficult.

 

Does she cry? Does she laugh at inappropriate times? Does she get angry and lash out?

 

She used to cry a lot more, now I haven't seen her cry in a while. Well, she did tear up a little bit on Saturday when we had a little discussion, but dried up quickly. I think she has cried all of her tears.

 

How does she act with your son?

 

She has done minimal (Get him off to school, get him off the bus, then let him do his own thing). She has even expressed that she feels extremely guilty about being a 'bad mom and bad wife for the past few months'. I reassured her when she said this that she is going through a rough time, she's a great parent etc.

 

Have you confided in her parents? Or your parents?

 

I have confided in her father (this was kind of my last resort to talk to her dad, he already knew everything, as my wife's plan was to move in with him) and my mother. My mother supports me, but kind of goes back and forth. Her goal is to save the marriage for her grandson - at any cost. Her dad tries to stay unbiased, but asks me to be patient and give her time. The problem with the parents thing, is my wife is causing my mom to be 'guilty by association' right now. So she is very negative towards her. When I did what I did, my mom was my wife's rock. At the house everyday, helping her do things, get through etc. She flipped 180 on her after she did her thing.

 

Are you involved in a church of any kind? Do you have clergy you feel comfortable sharing with?

We aren't religious.

[alsudduth]

After all, when you confessed you were saying: by the way we had an open marriage for a while, you just didn’t know about it, but now I want to go back to monogamy. She was saying, “**** you, I’m going to enjoy the open marriage too.” If you truly forgive your wife and continue to show contrition for your affair and ask for forgiveness, hopefully she will lighten up on the spending.

 

I do not understand how someone can have an affair in an otherwise monogamous marriage and then claim outrage when their spouse has an affair.

 

That is Bull. Two wrongs don't make a right! They both have a right to be hurt, and they BOTH are responsible for repairing the damage to the relationship done by BOTH of their affairs.

[saddad44]

saddad - speaking as a former WW.

 

You seem all too happy to hand off "half" the responsibility for the perpetrator of infidelity here. Like, shoo! Thank God I'm not the only bad guy!

 

I do think you need to change your mindset...or if it's just not being communicated to us correctly here at LS, forgive me. But you need to remain in the mindset of the WS. You cheated. You are 100% the cheater.

 

I know that you too feel betrayed. It's a funny mix of emotions, to be sure. Ironically, I think WS who are not also cheated can have a feeling of betrayal anyway, due to the stuff that's happened in the marriage...or just due to projection.

 

I wanted to point something out - you said that before your affair, you moved out. Why? There was obviously something very wrong in your marriage before you cheated. I'm not saying that because I think it gives you an excuse to cheat. I'm pointing it out because I think it sounds like you two had many years of built-up resentments that you are not really acknowledging. Maybe you are talking about it in MC, but you aren't saying it here. That can KILL the affection in a marriage, the communication, everything. Ask me how I know!

 

What I see happening, in general, is that your marriage was breaking down long before your affairs; you left and cheated; you've come home and probably in the effort to reconcile your affair, not really addressed the reasons you left home in the first place; that means all the built-up anger and contempt and resentments still exist and are now probably WORSE because of the affair; in reaction your wife cheated on you; you want to hold her accountable but that's hard because you did this very thing; you want to call it WORSE than yours because of the length and the things she did, but she will buck that horse, believe me; she probably did the things she did with him because of the built-up resentment I've referred to (you don't want to have fun with a mate you're angry with); and now she feels 'trapped' back in a marriage that was all jacked up before the affairs even happened.

 

She may deep down want to stay married to you; or WANT to want it; but it's looking pretty bleak right now. Thus, her distancing.

 

It IS possible she is still in the affair or at least misses the feelings she got from being in the affair. I'm sure it was a hell of a break from the bad feelings inside the marriage. That is really something to think about. Why make your marriages so miserable that all you want to do is flee them with someone else? Again, no excuses. But it should be a wake-up call.

 

You are BOTH responsible for your own affairs. Right now she is still too angry to be remorseful. I do think you should give it time, but not without proper boundaries. Putting her on an allowance...that seems like a bad idea. Don't punish. I think you can clearly lay out your expectations and what you will and won't accept...but ONLY after you have taken FULL responsibility for what you've done, and ONLY after you've had some very honest conversations about what was happening in the marriage before you ever left home. Because to me, that is the root of the issue. Only then can she begin to feel real sorry for her part in this mess.

 

We had a lot of deep ceded issues on both sides that were never resolved. Mine were on the emotional, physical and duties side (e.g. being a stay at home mom and not cleaning, and sitting around playing video games or TV all day instead of being productive) and hers were she felt like I wasn't there emotionally or verbally said 'I love you' enough. This was all pent up for years and years. She also felt obligated to initiate sex or she had some kind of 'quota' to meet. I don't know why she felt that way, but she did.

 

The unfortunate truth about my situation is that I can't communicate ANYTHING to her. ANY communication about our relationship is out of bounds to her. She always just replies 'I don't want to talk about it, it makes me angry' and that's that. I try not to push it. So it's very difficult to implement a lot of the advise people give me.

 

For example, earlier today, I sent her a message and told her how I wished I told her how beautiful she looked on a trip we went on a few months ago, just us, as a 'try to fix it' sort of deal. I didn't express my feelings enough in her eyes, and I wish I did. Her response was, we shouldn't talk about this, it makes me angry and she was just being fake and desperate. That's the part of the gas-lighting.

 

I don't think either one was 'worse' - I don't they're both wrong. Wrong is wrong. I never expected her to say hers was worse. I just wanted her to recognize what she did was wrong and that she wronged me too. Instead of placing all the blame on me. Looks like that won't happen. It's a tough pill to swallow, but it is what it is.

 

I still don't know what to do.

 

I don't know if I can stick it out like this. It's killing me. I want to, but not sure if I am capable.

 

I left to begin with because I was fed up and wanted a break. I didn't intent for it to be permanent. But then I screwed up and made it permanent, unfortunately and set us off on this roller coaster.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I don't think she is mentally capable of doing much of anything right now.

 

She has basically checked out.

 

Listen... if she has always been an attentive mom... and now she is not... there is a problem.

 

She is really having a hard time just coping much less taking responsibility for an affair and working on a marriage.

 

I do think you need to sit down and discuss going to a dr. And maybe discuss what you can both do to take care of your child and not let this destroy him.

[saddad44]

I don't think she is mentally capable of doing much of anything right now.

 

She has basically checked out.

 

Listen... if she has always been an attentive mom... and now she is not... there is a problem.

 

She is really having a hard time just coping much less taking responsibility for an affair and working on a marriage.

 

I do think you need to sit down and discuss going to a dr. And maybe discuss what you can both do to take care of your child and not let this destroy him.

 

I have tried that, and even brought it up and counseling and she berated me for some time about it.

 

I have taken over a lot of the day to day stuff, making sure he has clean clothes, food, etc.

 

I don't think she is as depressed as you are thinking. She has ALWAYS been this way for 10 years, that was a huge issue I had. She is just lazy. However, her depression coupled with her laziness has gotten out of control.

 

I have stepped up and made sure the house was clean, etc etc.

[Chaparral]

Explain what was going on before your affair. Her attitude,your sex life etc. Who was the friend she had the affair with? When did she start smoking so much pot? You said things used to be great but t eventually got bad enough to leave, how so?

[Mrs. John Adams]

I have tried that, and even brought it up and counseling and she berated me for some time about it.

 

I have taken over a lot of the day to day stuff, making sure he has clean clothes, food, etc.

 

I don't think she is as depressed as you are thinking. She has ALWAYS been this way for 10 years, that was a huge issue I had. She is just lazy. However, her depression coupled with her laziness has gotten out of control.

 

I have stepped up and made sure the house was clean, etc etc.

 

I understand that you stated much earlier she has always had some mental health issues... and with all that has happened it appears that things have escalated.

 

To be honest I would tell her we are going to the dr and if you won't go for your son then your son and I are leaving.

 

Can I ask you this... if you have felt this badly about each other for so long...

 

What are you trying to save?

 

Reconciliation is difficult in the best of circumstances...

 

But you are trying to rebuild a relationship that was broken long before infidelity occurred. And I truly don't think it will be successful. You both resent each other.. she has checked out of the marriage and being a loving wife and mom.

She is self absorbed in her own sorrow and could care less about anyone else's.

 

You love the woman you married... but she has not been that woman for a very long time.

 

I told you... your life is forever changed...and maybe change is exactly what the two of you needed... because it sounds like a horrible relationship.

 

Go to individual therapy and work on you. Maybe you will find happiness again but it may not be with her.

 

I think marriage therapy right now is accomplishing nothing.