Clarity is so hard to find...

[BreakingWave]

I'm the other woman. I'm having an affair with someone who wears a wedding ring and goes home to live a life that I don't get to share. They're words I never thought I would say - something I know I have in common with the vast majority of women (and men) who post here. However, my story has a slight twist: I'm in love with a married woman, not a man.

 

And tonight I'm at home feeling lonely (we've all been there) and reaching out to a community of people who might be the only ones who truly know what this particular kind of loneliness feels like. This is a long post, but I know I have taken comfort reading some of your stories and hopefully someone will benefit from or have some valuable insight after taking the time to read mine.

 

I'm a lesbian - something I figured out many years ago, during high school and college. I've had a lot of time to become comfortable with who and what I am, and I am out to all of my close friends and family. I hate to fall back on stereotypes, but I'm more feminine than not and don't have any "dead giveaway" characteristics, but my sexuality isn't something I've ever kept intentionally hidden. I mention this to point out that there's no internalized homophobia or self-hate going on. I've also been single for many years for a variety of reasons - I've had relationships, none of them particularly great, and often have a difficult time meeting women to whom I'm attracted enough to see more than a few times. While I've loved some of the women I have dated, I have never before experienced the kind of love that made me feel certain I'd found the person I might be able to spend a lifetime with.

 

I met this MW a few years ago at work. We immediately hit it off and became friends. For the first couple of years, we were simply work friends - we'd stop and chat and share a laugh, but we were both busy and that was all there was to it. I appreciated immediately that she was gorgeous and smart as well as very funny, and I had a little crush on her. But I'm also a realistic person (at least I've always considered myself to be, until lately!) so I really don't allow myself to get seriously interested in straight women, much less married straight women. There's just no point in that, right? Setting myself up for disappointment and likely an awkward relationship where the friendship used to be. So I enjoyed my innocent little crush on her, and never thought deeply about it. I continued to date actual lesbians, but never found anyone who held my interest.

 

About a year ago, she and I started spending more time together. Toward the late spring/early summer, we began socializing alone and not just in the regular work crowd. We would meet for brunch or dinner and end up having conversations that went on and on for hours. I was stunned when, one day, she confessed to me that she was having "confusing feelings" about me. By that time, she had moved on and we were no longer working together.

 

A little background. She's been married nearly two decades, and has several kids and stepkids, all of whom are now adults. She swears (and I believe her) that she had never so much as wanted to kiss a woman before me. But one day last fall, flattered that such a beautiful, interesting woman was curious about me, I kissed her. And that kiss was like so many of your first kisses with your MM and MW - it quickly escalated into a full-blown love affair. We were soon texting and calling whenever we could, and sneaking time together was easy. She's straight, after all, and no one questions her spending time with another woman. Her friends and mine are essentially the same group other than those she knows through her husband. They all know I'm gay, but they'd never question her sexuality and I seriously doubt it's occurred to any of them that there's anything going on with us.

 

Throughout this all, what I've always told myself makes our affair different is that we were best friends, close for years before we even began flirting. We have a bond that is truly built on love and best will for the other person. Before we shared our first kiss, I already knew most of her family and friends, had spent hours in her home and out with her socially, etc. It isn't like I started the affair and then wormed my way into her home life. I was already there. Her kids adore me. I've been on trips with her and them before. So... I guess that's also a twist - our friendship predates the affair by years.

 

A few months after our affair began, she really dialed back the communication. She wasn't nearly as flirty, she didn't make as much time for me. She told me her life had gotten busy, her husband was working less and she was dealing with holiday family obligations as well as a vacation they'd had planned for months that took her away for a week. I accepted that and though it felt strange to have her suddenly go from always being able to find time to Snapchat or sneak in a five-minute phone call to having essentially zero time for me.

 

In March, almost 6 months after our affair began, and after two months of up-and-down contact, she told me she was "not in the same place" and had been praying and reflecting, and had concluded that the best thing for everyone was for us to go back to being just friends. It broke my heart in the worst way. I held it together and was mature when talking to her - told her I understood (and the truth is, I did) and assured her I didn't hate her or blame her for anything. We did hang out a few times, nothing romantic happened. This was exceptionally difficult and though I sensed it might be better to go no contact, the truth is I love her very much and I did want to preserve our friendship if possible. Even if I often found myself crying for hours about the changed status of our relationship.

 

I even tried dating someone else. This new woman was an *actual* lesbian. An actual *single* lesbian who has so much going for her - she's pretty, she's smart, she has her life together. We share many of the same interests, and she's thoughtful and considerate. Wants to hear from me all the time, happy to drop most things she's doing and come spend time. Of course, I couldn't give her a fair chance because I'm so in love with MW.

 

The "breakup" lasted about a month. My MW finally started texting me one night, and in a conversation that lasted 5 hours, told me she had tried to convince herself that she could move on, that she could do the right thing by everyone. She iterated that she STILL thinks breaking off the affair is the right thing to do. But she told me she felt the same way, wanted to see me, wanted to kiss me again. But she said she felt tremendous guilt - not just about her BS, but also toward me. She knows that as long as she's in the picture, I'm closing my heart to meeting other people, I'm letting people who could put me first slip by.

 

So things started up again about a month ago and they've just progressed quickly. We spent the entire day together, and it was fantastic. We made love, laughed, had incredibly sweet moments together... and then I had to watch her get into her car and go home. I sent her a text about two hours ago telling her how happy I was to have had such a great day with her. I haven't gotten a response (she's opened the snap and I know she carries her phone with her CONSTANTLY.)

 

I am worried that while the day was perfect for me, having such an intense day of intimacy with me after trying to end the affair might be giving her a hard time. I want to reach out and talk to her about it, but I also want to respect that maybe she needs to process it on her own. I have no idea. And isn't that one of the struggles we all share? Knowing our MW or MM is home with the family while we sit alone missing them, knowing the hours that drag on for us often fly by for them.

 

I'll be out of town from Monday through Wednesday, so chances are we won't see each other for almost a week. Today was a great way to say goodbye; I'm just missing her already.

 

I know the odds of her leaving him are slim to none. She's never mislead me about that. She loves her husband, though they're growing more and more apart in recent years. They have a shared history, shared children, shared financial and familial entanglements. They have societal acceptance (she has expressed concern to me, many times, about whether she'd ever be comfortable holding my hand in public or being part of a known same-sex couple.) At the same time, she's been the one bringing up conversations lately about how her family might react if she told them, how our lives might look if she were free, how she often thinks she'd rather come home to me at the end of the day. But she's not an overly emotive person, and very often those intense conversations are followed by a couple of days of her backing off and being a little less available. I've learned not to push, and surely enough, when I follow her lead and leave her alone for a day or two, she will come back ready to have emotional intimacy again.

 

She sits in my home and talks about the vacations they're planning to take (they're very well-off, and I am not - I can't afford the type of world traveling they do or the lifestyle they have) and it's rough for many reasons. It hurts knowing she's having a romantic vacation with him and plays the role of doting wife. It hurts knowing I could never take her on a trip remotely like this or afford the way she loves to spend money on expensive clothes, shoes, etc. - though she's assured me many times "money isn't everything" and "it isn't a competition." It hurts knowing I'll be seeing social media posts of the two of them in pictures, watching our mutual friends "like" her messages about how great he is and how happy they are.

 

So why do I stay? I suppose "because I love her" is too predictable an answer. But the truth is that although I only get part of her, and it is almost always on her terms, I'd rather have part of her and feel that wonderful connection, that love, than not feel it at all. I adore her with all that I am.

 

But tonight? Sitting at home alone instead of snuggling with her and extending our afternoon all weekend... knowing essentially all my friends are with people and I'm here alone, this is when it's *hard.*

[whichwayisup]

This affair is going to kill you inside the longer you stay it. You're in love with her and I hate to say it but she isn't in love with you. She's in lust and getting something so different than what she experiences at home with her husband. She's getting the best of both worlds. You've invested way too much into her all the meanwhile she's living life with her husband and family.

 

I really hope you can detach from her and end things with her. She may care about you deeply but she's never going to give up her life and everything she's become accustomed to, divorce and be with you.

 

Clinging on to the bits and pieces she gives you will eventually not be enough and you'll want more and more as the months or even years go by.

 

I hope you find love for yourself instead of getting it all from her. Sitting home alone while others are out there happy and able to live life openly is going to wear you down.

 

Another aspect, your lives are entwined so when (and it will come out, affairs usually do) her husband finds out about the affair, your mutual friends will pick sides. The fallout personally will be huge.

[Poppy47]

Please don't sit at home alone.

 

You are wasting your life. Stay in love with her and see her if you must. You still need social contact with others... family, friends, interest groups.

 

You will kill yourself if you don't. Believe me for I have been there.

 

Poppy.

[Vivir]

So things started up again about a month ago and they've just progressed quickly. We spent the entire day together, and it was fantastic. We made love, laughed, had incredibly sweet moments together... and then I had to watch her get into her car and go home. I sent her a text about two hours ago telling her how happy I was to have had such a great day with her. I haven't gotten a response (she's opened the snap and I know she carries her phone with her CONSTANTLY.)

 

I am worried that while the day was perfect for me, having such an intense day of intimacy with me after trying to end the affair might be giving her a hard time. I want to reach out and talk to her about it, but I also want to respect that maybe she needs to process it on her own. I have no idea. And isn't that one of the struggles we all share? Knowing our MW or MM is home with the family while we sit alone missing them, knowing the hours that drag on for us often fly by for them.

 

I'll be out of town from Monday through Wednesday, so chances are we won't see each other for almost a week. Today was a great way to say goodbye; I'm just missing her already.

 

She is doing what is best for her, period. In everything that has happened between you two, it seems to me that she has only thought of herself and what she needs and wants. Sure, she might have had a fleeting thought - or even a grand analysis, but you should be certain, that when her thoughts led to action, she was in it for herself only. From telling you of her confused feelings, to starting with the inappropriateness, to then dialing things back... to spending this entire day with you, knowing how you felt about her... taking advantage of the fact that her husband wouldn't suspect. It has been all about her. And now, you should take this time, to make your life about you.

 

I quoted you above... Something like this happened to me, too, except xMM assured me we would be seeing each other later in the day. He never called and he never showed up. During the night after the last time I saw him, I had a dream that I was with my cousin and another friend at a nightclub, and my cousin had been beautifully dressed and made up, but she had been crying uncontrollably on my shoulder as the upbeat music blasted and happy people danced and mingled around us. When I awakened, I realized our roles in the dream had been reversed, and it was my turn to cry in real life. And I had not cried uncontrollably since the sudden death of my mother...

 

I had never experienced such an intense anger at xMM during the entirety of the affair. It finally became clear that he had used me; something I had not thoroughly considered or felt. I remained angry as h3ll for two days. And then the sadness came around for the next two days. A week went by, and nothing - not a word from him.

 

I had been preparing for the inevitable end for many months. I found ways, with few friends in my life, to spend my time - times when I knew I would ruminate heavily or miss his presence terribly.

 

But still. Hope dies a hard death in an affair.

 

If you could stand outside the window of your affair, what would you see if you were a third party?

 

I saw a MM that acted as if my role in his life was to provide him an escape and untold sexual pleasure.

 

He might've been kind sometimes, but overall that didn't matter. The kindness I showed him didn't matter: we were hurting each other. I was helping him to hurt his wife (and in turn hurt himself). He had been helping me destroy my esteem. It got to a point where both of us were having trouble sleeping and then struggling through our shifts at work.

 

I heard a high degree of ambivalence when he talked about "us" and redirection when I talked about my feelings. It had always been all about him. Breadcrumbs served to keep me hooked for servicing him, his ego, his needs. My needs fell by the wayside. I believed he did care for me, he just did not care enough. I can only speak for myself, I guess.

 

I, too, allowed the possibility of a real relationship with a single person slip through my fingers while he remained married.

 

I had hope that he could be mine one day. The hope died a hard death, and even to this day, I sometimes wish he would call. I realize, though, that he is not going to say anything we haven't rehashed a million times. To save myself, I had to let him go. It is time you save yourself - and her, because so long as you are an option, she may keep returning on a whim. You have to put obstacles in her way. She has made her choice to stay where she is. No more interference in your life.

[BreakingWave]

I want to thank all of you for reading my post and for giving me such honest, kind feedback and insight. You've all brought up very important questions for me to consider - I have often thought about how I might advise a friend in a similar situation - and ideas for what I need to do next.

 

Before I became involved with MW, I would have described myself as happy. I wasn't thrilled about being single, but I'd been in unfulfilling relationships and was quite certain I'd rather be alone than with the wrong person. I was looking forward to meeting someone, but basically content being single. I was very committed to living a healthy lifestyle and exercising - I worked out and also jogged about 20-30 miles a week. Of course, soon I was using the hours that used to be devoted to working out to seeing MW because that was the most convenient time of day for her.

 

She texted after my post last night to say hello and let me know she was "freaking out" after our intense day together, but that I shouldn't worry and she was working through it but didn't want to talk about anything yet. This isn't alarming; I'm a talk-things-outer but she's definitely more of a work-it-out-alone person.

 

Starting today, I'm going to make sure I prioritize my workouts and try to schedule social things with friends. (I haven't been letting that fall completely by the wayside, but of course we have so many mutual friends that it's difficult to be around them and not be able to be honest about what's really on my mind!) No more making myself available all the time just in case she's free.

 

I often ask myself if I told her I was out, would she fight to keep us or would she just feel relief. And... I'm not at all sure about the answer.

 

All of you are now out of your affairs. How long did they all last? How long before you finally did the hardest thing imaginable and told the person you loved more than anyone that it was over?

[BreakingWave]

I had never experienced such an intense anger at xMM during the entirety of the affair. It finally became clear that he had used me; something I had not thoroughly considered or felt. I remained angry as h3ll for two days. And then the sadness came around for the next two days. A week went by, and nothing - not a word from him.

 

I am so sorry that you experienced this - it is especially cruel to have done this without a word, without an explanation. Even when she told me we should be just friends and we spent several weeks doing that, I did feel hurt and confusion but never true fury, because at least she was honest about her reasons and they were reasons with which I couldn't argue. It sounds like your xMM was a true coward in the end, and I hate that for you.

[Vivir]

Let me be clear, Breaking Wave,

The process of actually ending the affair took quite some time (more than six months). I sat on the fence, because I wanted to keep him in my life and he wanted things to stay exactly as they had been between us. It wasn't his choice, not at first anyway, to end anything. I saw him as my friend, because he had been there for me following a crappy break up with a single guy, plus we worked together...

 

When I first broached the subject, I was scared to death! It was over the phone. I was shaking, and fighting with my thoughts. I had been too afraid to say the words. I expected he would say, "Oh, okay then..." but that did not happen. He "fought" for the affair, and in my foggy brain, I thought, "Oh, he loves me!!" On this board, I learned that although he might have cared for me, it was more likely that it would've just been easier for him to keep me than to groom another OW :-( (this hurt my feelings, of course).

 

He was not interested in letting me (read: the affair) go, and I was on the fence. Like you, I accepted part time over nothing at all. As time went on, the pain became greater than the pleasure. We talked every day. We slept together. Each time he went home, he was going home to someone else (a legal spouse that he must've wanted to be with...). When he left, I felt physically ill, like he was being torn from me. I told him I couldn't stand it, and expected him to do something. He never did anything that I could see... Based on the few things that he did say, it became apparent to me that he had began acting towards his BW in such a way that he may have been almost forcing her hand in trying to get her to divorce... or maybe not. I became more and more aware of what many husbands/boyfriends do for their significant others, and I became more and more resentful of xMM. I even started dating someone else. I had been preparing for an inevitable end. And then I learned of their new baby (after I chose MM over the new single guy). I saw pictures of their life together. It hurt me so bad. At this point, I went NC but went back into it eight weeks later. Everything deteriorated from there. The relationship was toxic.

 

With everything that has happened, I do not put all of the blame on him. He did not act alone. I think ending it was very hard for him, too, for whatever reason(s). Maybe he thinks walking away "on a good note" was for the best. I have no idea. But I do know this: there is no easy way to end it. It's gonna hurt, no matter where you are on the triangle. I can only know what I did and what my own reasons were and why.

 

Your situation is different from mine. You can see inside their life together, and you can put yourself in her shoes. Would you leave your loving spouse of 20 years, where things are far easier and someone is taking care of you? You have history and children and a home and _________. I know you said clarity is so hard to come by, but it is not. You already know what you need to do for you. You just don't want to do it. I've been there, done that. It is hard. When she contacts you, it's harder. She's your "friend" and you have inappropriate feelings for her. If you want things to be better in the long run, you will have to step back so you can sort out your feelings and your thoughts. Clarity will also be SUPER EASY to come by if you put yourself in her BH shoes... imagine what he would do to you and/or her if he found out about your affair. He might wreck your world.

 

My advice: back way, way away and do it as fast as you can.

 

I wish you happiness and patience in your journey.

Edited May 15, 2017 by Vivir
emphasis

[Jersey born raised]

Perhaps view this reiationship as there are two people being cheated and as a result living a life not as fulfilling as they should: you and her husband. Is this acceptable to you?

[unicorn_with_baggage]

Rich husband, expensive clothes and vacations, too busy for you unless she's needing some kind of emotional or sexual validation... Do you ever ask yourself how you became the 'yard guy' for a wealthy, entitled, grub? You're not even a yard guy with papers. You're an illegal yard guy who scaled Trump's wall for $3 an hour. That sucks. Get out now and find yourself a real woman who is going to adore you and acknowledge you and know how much value you bring to her life. Good luck!

[BreakingWave]

Feel so sad about everything. MW told me she's "freaking out" - our contact has been limited in the last couple of days. I know I need to assume it's over and begin living like it's over. I know I need to accept that it has to be over until and unless she's ready to give me an actual, in-the-open relationship. I know that everyone giving me advice to find a "real" partner is speaking from places of experience and love. And I'm not so naive to think my situation is 'different' or 'special.' I value your insights very much.

 

When I contemplate never being with her again, letting go of our relationship as well as our friendship - because I don't think I have the strength to be around her and just be her friend, pretending everything is okay - I honestly feel so hopeless I can barely breathe.

 

 

But there are times like this. Going hours and hours without a word, without even telling me goodnight or asking how I'm doing while I'm out of town. She's hurting me a lot by being so indifferent to me (at least acting like it) and that's a way that, even as a friend, she shouldn't want me to feel.

[BreakingWave]

Get out now and find yourself a real woman who is going to adore you and acknowledge you and know how much value you bring to her life. Good luck!

 

Thank you - I understand the rationality of this advice. I did try dating someone else a couple of months ago, after MW told me she wanted to just be friends. The woman I was dating was terrific but I felt physically nauseous during intimacy and thought constantly of MW. I am honestly worried that I will never feel this way about anyone again. After all, it's the first time in nearly 40 years of life that I've met anyone I could see myself with forever. What are the odds it would actually happen again?

[freengreen]

Like someone said, find a women who can share her major part of her life with you. This women has a family, she will only give the rest of the time and energy after being done with her family. Also this isnt going to change for they rest of your lives.

 

Although I agree that she should have clearly told you rather than stringing you along but hey we are the one who got into it right?. Take care of yourself :)and find someone special not some one elses special.

[BreakingWave]

Thanks, Feengreen. I am trying to believe that one day I'll be interested in someone else. Right now I'm just not. Was out of town for three days, and got back today. MW did contact me - she has not stopped making sure to "check in and say hi" in her words, and told me not to worry, that she's working through things on her own.

 

This is a pattern whenever we get very close emotionally or physically. She almost always withdraws right away and goes on an enormous guilt trip wherein she doesn't flirt or try to make plans to see me. In the past, she's always come back, and that used to give me a lot of comfort. Recently, she's told me that she is not going to leave her marriage (at least she isn't making false promises) because, despite no longer being in love with her husband and recognizing that they're becoming very different people and she isn't getting her needs met, the decision to leave would impact dozens of other people whom she cares about very much.

 

I know some people on this forum have been involved with serial adulterers. She has told me - and I absolutely believe her - that she has never been unfaithful to her husband before. She's never told me she's in love with me, though one time I did tell her I felt that she must be because otherwise she wouldn't be risking so much to be with me, and she nodded in the closest thing I've gotten to an actual statement that it is true. I also know she's a practical person. She won't be walking away from a stable, established situation to start life over again with anyone, much less a *woman* when she's never been involved with one before. She's flat-out told me that she doesn't think she can ever be what I want or deserve, and that as a friend she wants to see me with someone who can and will put me first. As people have pointed out, she can't even put me second. After her husband, she has a lot of other obligations. Her kids are adults but they'll always come before me, and honestly I can't fault her for that. I think that's probably how it *should* be (although I also believe that adult children are also in control of their relationships with their parents and how involved they'd like to be with them - it would be very different if she had young kids still dependent on their parents providing a very stable home life.)

 

And yet, it still hurts that she didn't want to try harder today. That she hasn't at least called or expressed that she misses me. Perhaps she doesn't. I have to acknowledge that possibility.

 

I asked if she'd like to get together after work tomorrow. She hasn't responded. From now on, I think I have to protect my dignity by not asking for attention. I'll let her come to me or ask me to spend time, and in the meantime make my own plans if an offer comes up. No more blocking time out "just in case" or "because she's usually free on this day, at this time." It's only fair if we only spend time together when it's convenient for me, because that's as much effort as she's putting in.

 

Do I still have a fantasy that love will conquer all and she'll decide she wants to be with me, out in the open? I probably always will. As I've said before, I've never truly been in love before and because it took me until I was nearly 40 - and with someone I'd known for years, so we had already done that getting-to-know-you thing that I hate with dates but really enjoy with friends.

 

And for me it's really scary because I'm gay, but I'm a feminine woman attracted to other feminine women. This is going to sound like a big fat generalization, but trust me, it's true - most lesbians aren't the kind of women that I'm attracted to, nor am I terribly interested in most of the activities and things lesbian meet up groups really do. Yes, I've tried. I've joined meet ups and done online dating. I've never met anyone I've really clicked with.

 

I'm just so convinced MW is the only one for me, though my rational brain accepts that the advice I'm getting here is good. For me it feels like choosing between what she can offer right now - which isn't enough for me - and being alone. Perhaps being alone is better in the sense that it isn't a constant kick in the self-esteem. But I just... I love her. I want her. I miss her terribly when she isn't around.

[BreakingWave]

Got good and mad at her tonight. I believe she truly cares for me, but that she's been using me as a human ego stroke. She knows I'm very much in love with her (I've told her many times) and continues to string me along, drawing me in very close with physical and emotional intimacy and then pulling away from me time after time, knowing I've always been willing to forgive her.

 

But you know what? That's all kind of bull****.

 

There's a total cycle here. We'll have a wonderful couple of days or even a week with fantastic, emotionally intimate conversations. It will lead to a brief period of fantastic physical intimacy and closeness. Then, she'll feel tremendous guilt and pull away from me to go be the perfect, doting wife to make herself feel better. She starts to realize what she lacks in her life so she comes calling again and gets to be the center of someone's attention. The entire cycle then repeats.

 

I think y'all have nailed it - she thinks only of herself. She used to check in and see if I was okay, she'd tell me she feels awful when she has to leave me, she'd flirt with me through texts and send sexy snaps. But lately, she hasn't asked how I feel about being so loved and adored one day only to be treated like a casual friend for the rest of the week. We talked about this a lot when we got back together, and I told her this was the most painful part - I would go from feeling like we were super close and open, and then I would be shut out again. She promised to do better about that. She hasn't.

 

I have a choice. When she inevitably tries to draw me in again, I can keep playing her game. Or I can tell her that when she plays out this cycle, I feel totally unimportant and discarded. I don't feel like a second priority right now. I feel like a NON-priority. As a friend, she would be furious if anyone else treated me like this. And ultimately I'd have to tell her I can't be her friend right now. That as long as she's around me, I'm going to be reminded of how awful it feels when she pulls me in and then pushes me away.

 

The thought of doing that scares the hell out of me. I don't want to lose her, as a lover or friend. There's still a part of me that *hopes.* But I read all the posts here and recognize so many patterns that I see playing out in my own relationship. I feel so physically sick right now.

[seren]

Hi Breaking Wave, have you been onto the Diva Blue Rooms site? It is a forum for lesbian and bi women, not that your betrayal is any different to anyone else's, but they have a lot of support for women in similar situations to your. A friend of mine found it really helpful when she was in a similar situation to you. She has been in an affair with a married woman for 4 years, they discussed marriage, children and were known as a couple to everyone but the BS. My friend was very much in love with her, the MW said that it was hard for her as she was known as being 'straight', had older children and for her it wasn't just leaving a marriage, it was also having to come out as well and she wasn't ready to do that, also feared her children not understanding.

 

My friend was heartbroken, but tried to see it from the MW's point of view. This might not be helpful for you. My friend is now married and has twin boys who they had by artificial insemination with a gay friend. They are one very happy family, she says it helped her to understand how hard it was for the WS as she had to accept a different view of her own sexuality that she hadn't explored. Saying that, my friend also says that she broke the golden rule, never go out with married women, I agree.

[BreakingWave]

Thank you! That is very encouraging - I sincerely still hope that is how the story ends for me and my MW. I just have to accept it could take years before I know whether we really stand a chance.

 

I didn't know about that forum. I'll check it out. In truth, I don't really consider myself to be especially connected with the LGBTQ "community" and rarely seek out gay-specific groups or forums anymore.

[Birdies]

I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation Even though it's self-inflicted, it still sucks so much, and you have the guilt and self-blame on top of everything else.

 

The thing is, they almost never leave their spouses and families, in a regular heterosexual affair. The bisexual thing takes that chance from maybe 1% to about 0.1%. Your AP is not giving you *any* indication that you two will ever be together. Believe her.

 

So, knowing that this will never turn into truly fulfilling relationship, you can either keep it going until one of you is too broken to continue or until you have an explosive DDay and blow up both your lives to smithereens - or you can put yourself first and rip the bandaid.

 

Even true love isn't worth this much pain.

 

To answer your question, I was in my A (we were both married) for a little over a year. We both knew we needed to end it because I didn't want to leave my husband and ruin his and my life (AP was working on a divorce, not for me but just because his M was toxic and awful). But we couldn't quite bring ourselves to end it just yet. Then we had a DDay, and it was even more shltty than I could have guessed. Trust me, neither of you want that. She will wreak absolute havoc on her husband and innocent kids - like, literally destroy their lives - and you'll be vilified as the home-wrecking whore who ruined a family. Please believe me when I say that the very best thing is for you to suck it up and endure the pain of breaking things off. (And no, you can't go back to being friends.)

 

PS - I'm not sure what you found encouraging about Seren's story, in terms of you and your MW? Her friend's MW couldn't leave the marriage and they never ended up together. Sounds like her friend DID find happiness after ending the affair though.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Birdies

[BreakingWave]

It was encouraging that the friend eventually found love. I want to believe that could happen for me, but the truth is I don't. I have absolutely no desire to keep looking or trying.

 

In all honesty, I don't feel I have anything at all to look forward to in life. I know that would surprise almost anyone who knows me. I have a successful professsional life (but student loans and bad decisions in a crappy relationship from my past have me burdened by debt) and really wonderful friends. I have great, supportive parents. But my life doesn't seem to have much purpose, and I cannot honestly say I'm looking forward to anything. The things I used to really enjoy - like running and staying fit - have fallen by the wayside. I just don't get much out of anything anymore, and it's hard to parlay "I have a race next month" into a reason to live.

 

 

I look around me at my friends who have their own families - spouses, children. They take vacations and save for retirement and are constantly looking toward a future, a future full of love and people. I am still renting an apartment, have zero savings, and am alone most of the time because my friends are all coupled up.

 

 

I dare to think sometimes that MW and I will have a future. But no, the practical side of me knows she has a future with a man she is no longer in love with but who came along first so he wins.

 

 

I don't want to kill myself. But I don't want to live anymore either. I'm not living. I'm existing. For what purpose, to what end? To keep paying rent and barely getting by, to live the same pointless day over and over.

 

 

I have moments of hope and resolve but they're always replaced by this steady sense of futility. I've thought about therapy but can't begin to afford it, so I'm doing the best I can reading notes here to remind myself I'm not alone and just trying to make it through day by day.

[BreakingWave]

Saw MW today - it was kind of a surprise. She texted to see what I was doing after work and said she could come by. Nothing explosive - I live on her way home, and it's easy for her to stop for a few minutes. We just had a glass of wine and caught up on her weeks. She explained that she'd been really busy, though I'm well aware that was never a reason to be out of touch when we were getting started. We kissed, but nothing else, and she said she'd call tomorrow if she could do anything. I have plans for most of the day tomorrow (no more waiting to see if she happens to be free) but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't hoping to see her.

[MidnightBlue1980]

It was encouraging that the friend eventually found love. I want to believe that could happen for me, but the truth is I don't. I have absolutely no desire to keep looking or trying.

 

In all honesty, I don't feel I have anything at all to look forward to in life. I know that would surprise almost anyone who knows me. I have a successful professsional life (but student loans and bad decisions in a crappy relationship from my past have me burdened by debt) and really wonderful friends. I have great, supportive parents. But my life doesn't seem to have much purpose, and I cannot honestly say I'm looking forward to anything. The things I used to really enjoy - like running and staying fit - have fallen by the wayside. I just don't get much out of anything anymore, and it's hard to parlay "I have a race next month" into a reason to live.

 

 

I look around me at my friends who have their own families - spouses, children. They take vacations and save for retirement and are constantly looking toward a future, a future full of love and people. I am still renting an apartment, have zero savings, and am alone most of the time because my friends are all coupled up.

 

 

I dare to think sometimes that MW and I will have a future. But no, the practical side of me knows she has a future with a man she is no longer in love with but who came along first so he wins.

 

 

I don't want to kill myself. But I don't want to live anymore either. I'm not living. I'm existing. For what purpose, to what end? To keep paying rent and barely getting by, to live the same pointless day over and over.

 

 

I have moments of hope and resolve but they're always replaced by this steady sense of futility. I've thought about therapy but can't begin to afford it, so I'm doing the best I can reading notes here to remind myself I'm not alone and just trying to make it through day by day.

 

Breaking Wave, you may or may not need therapy (who doesn't here) but you first of all need gay friends. My husband's friend and our children's godfather is gay. For many years he was a part of the social group but over time he said it was depressing, he did not fit in, etc. Then he dated someone who was in denial about being gay and eventually signed up for one of those religious programs where they deprogram you and make you straight. It was very unhealthy for our friend. Today he is living with a boyfriend, with a circle of men and women gay and lesbian friends, we do not see him much but that is to be expected. He is in his world. And he is happy.

 

You need to find your place. This woman is not it. If you were involved with a married guy, I'd say the same thing, they NEVER LEAVE. It's all a huge time suck and nothing but heartache. I tell you today that if you cut the cord, 6 months from now, you will be a new person. Nov 19th. End it. Block her, do whatever. That is her issue, her hangup. Not yours. Listen if she really wants you, she will find you. But they never do. But the good part is that you won't care anymore. If you look at my posts, I was so distraught over a guy, I wanted to end it all. Trust me on this. Rip the band-aid off. You deserve better.

[BreakingWave]

MidnightBlue1980,

 

Thank you for reading my story and taking the time to write your thoughtful post. I can tell it comes out of genuine kindness and concern, and appreciate it.

 

Over the years, particularly during college, I had a big circle of wonderful gay and lesbian friends. As with most college friends, we all sort of went our separate ways and I don't see any of them anymore. As I went to work, I stayed very busy and met fewer and fewer "new friends." The friends I am particularly close to now include one gay man and mostly a bunch of straight women. That's just how it's shaken out - those are the people I feel the most comfortable with and have the most in common with.

 

I have made an effort to make more gay and lesbian friends. The truth is, I feel less in "my world" and more like I'm walking around in someone else's world when I go to gay/lesbian meetups or try online dating and make a point of meeting other gay people. There's something about it that feels artificial, like an audition for friends or dating rather than just meeting someone you click with because of shared interests and similar personalities. Considering that lesbians are only about 3 percent of the population, and I'm so rarely attracted to women who actually identify as lesbian, it feels very much like being in that "world" means surrounding myself with people I don't necessarily have a lot in common with besides belonging to the same minority, as opposed to continuing to hang out with people I've become friends with naturally because we share work or interests, etc. I'm sure there are plenty of lesbians and gay men I would click with if I got to know them, but I haven't found an avenue for that that really works.

 

I don't know that "my place" exists, honestly. I think that's the scary part for me. I feel like I'm in my own zone on the periphery of everyone else's world, and that I have been for my entire life. I definitely had this feeling as early as adolescence, which was the first time I seriously contemplated suicide. I should be clear that I am *not* suicidal now. But like most lesbians and gay men, I have psychological scars that have left me prone to periods of prolonged depression and anxiety, and I'm very much going through one of those periods now.

 

I've chatted with MW today. She just texted a few times to tell me about her day, nothing deep. I miss our deep conversations and hate this part of the push and pull pattern more than anything... but I haven't discovered a way of dealing with it other than being patient and waiting it out until she comes in close again.

[BreakingWave]

Saw MW today. We met up for drinks and had a pleasant conversation with a little flirting and a sweet kiss afterward, but that was it. She actually spent most of the conversation telling me about the cruise she's taking with her BH this summer. I think in her mind, that's just keeping me up to date on her life. I've admitted to her that it does make me feel weird/unhappy thinking about her going away on a romantic, luxurious vacation with him. She reminded me that she never made me promises, that I should also "keep my options open and stop waiting for something that probably won't happen."

 

I pointed out that it was so strange to hear her say that when we were making love two weeks ago. She said she knows, that she was worried that our physical intimacy "muddied the waters again" and we are "really amazing friends with our own secret that makes it really special" but that there are and always will be "limitations to our relationship."

 

 

Well. She gets credit for not future-faking, I guess.

 

 

I gave her an Out the other day. We were texting and she said that she is feeling tremendous guilt - about how she's treating her husband as well as how she's treating me. She's being dishonest with him as well as not giving me nearly what she knows I deserve. I told her "if you can honestly tell me you don't love me and won't ever want to be with me, I'll go away and make this very simple for you."

 

 

She hasn't said it. I don't think she can - not honestly, anyway. Am I a complete fool for hoping that in time she'll stop trying to make herself believe we're simply friends with benefits? I suppose I already know the answer to that one.

[FoundMyStrength]

I think part of the reason she won't take your out is that she does love you and does want you in her life *in addition to* her husband.

 

My xMM did not expect to fall in love with some woman he met at a summer job assignment, but he did, and it was very hard for him to let me go when he went back home. I had to make that decision for him. For us both. He would gladly have kept me emailing him on our secret email as he lived day in, day out with his wife. My little electronic prison.

 

Here's how I viewed it. I wasn't willing to be the icing on the cake of his marriage. I wanted his love, but I wanted it the way a person gives their love to a spouse. And his wife deserved the same. She deserved to be his one and only, not the boring day to day that can only be tolerated because he has the excitement of affair emails.

 

He had to pick, and I made him. Only he knows if he made the right choice. My advice is to make her choose. Walk away and force her to make a decision. She doesn't get to be selfish and have you both. Life doesn't work that way. Love shouldn't work that way.

[BreakingWave]

FoundMyStrength,

 

You are exactly right - you essentially foretold everything she said to me today. She loves me, but she's aware the chances she will leave are very low. She said, "I can't even tell you to give me time to figure it out, that I'm leaving but don't know how. None of that is true. I want to, sometimes, but then I'm scared to death because I'm straight. I'm not a lesbian. I don't think I'd ever feel comfortable as part of a same sex couple." She really laid it all out there.

 

I asked if that meant she wants out. She said no, but she didn't understand why I'm not running for the hills. She admitted she's been very selfish, but she loves two people and is torn and confused. The one love comes with two decades of history, a big family, memories, the financial stability they've built together, etc. Then there's me. The one woman in the world she's ever felt this way about but can't imagine acknowledging publicly, who doesn't have a lot to offer in terms of security. A lifetime of single-incoming it has left me in a paycheck-to-paycheck situation. I'm not completely brokeass, but I don't live in their world.

 

I do believe that given time, she will grow more comfortable with the idea of being with me. I don't know how much time that is, and I recognize that she was actually being kind by telling me not to waste time waiting for her in case that never comes through, as it probably won't. I know I want a woman who loves me enough to do what she needs to do to really be with me in the way I deserve, who will acknowledge me and put me first.

 

But I also know I've never loved like this and don't feel optimistic that I ever will again. I feel like she's the best and only shot I have.

 

Maybe that means eventually I have to walk away to give her a chance to see what we really mean to each other - or to give me a chance to see what we really don't. I just don't think I'm that strong yet. I don't know if I ever will be, to be honest.

[MidnightBlue1980]

FoundMyStrength,

 

You are exactly right - you essentially foretold everything she said to me today. She loves me, but she's aware the chances she will leave are very low. She said, "I can't even tell you to give me time to figure it out, that I'm leaving but don't know how. None of that is true. I want to, sometimes, but then I'm scared to death because I'm straight. I'm not a lesbian. I don't think I'd ever feel comfortable as part of a same sex couple." She really laid it all out there.

 

I asked if that meant she wants out. She said no, but she didn't understand why I'm not running for the hills. She admitted she's been very selfish, but she loves two people and is torn and confused. The one love comes with two decades of history, a big family, memories, the financial stability they've built together, etc. Then there's me. The one woman in the world she's ever felt this way about but can't imagine acknowledging publicly, who doesn't have a lot to offer in terms of security. A lifetime of single-incoming it has left me in a paycheck-to-paycheck situation. I'm not completely brokeass, but I don't live in their world.

 

I do believe that given time, she will grow more comfortable with the idea of being with me. I don't know how much time that is, and I recognize that she was actually being kind by telling me not to waste time waiting for her in case that never comes through, as it probably won't. I know I want a woman who loves me enough to do what she needs to do to really be with me in the way I deserve, who will acknowledge me and put me first.

 

But I also know I've never loved like this and don't feel optimistic that I ever will again. I feel like she's the best and only shot I have.

 

Maybe that means eventually I have to walk away to give her a chance to see what we really mean to each other - or to give me a chance to see what we really don't. I just don't think I'm that strong yet. I don't know if I ever will be, to be honest.

 

That is simply not true. I don't know anything about you but I can guarantee you 100% that there is someone better out there besides someone's lying, cheating spouse who is not sure if she is straight or gay.

 

First of all, what does that mean - she is not a lesbian? Okay, then what, she is just having fun with you? Experimentation? It's called using someone. Many of us have been there - using someone else for sex. For affection. For kicks. I guess that is her fallback - "oh but I am not a lesbian." Honey, if you eat a steak, you are not a vegetarian no matter how you spin it.

 

I am guessing you are not too familiar with men (no offense to men reading this!) but as a woman, I am guessing you shower her with love, adoration, affection and all the other stuff women crave, since obviously you are a woman too. Men do that a bit, in the beginning or once in a while, but woman soak it up. So stop. Why are you giving her all this attention and love and getting nothing in return but heartache?

 

If you keep doing what you are doing all you will get is a forever affair with nothing but stolen moments and a pain sandwich.

 

I did read you above post about the gay/lesbian friends. I guess it depends on where you live. I live near a major city and there are a lot a gay/lesbian people. But I don't know. Have you really tried? Did you go online, to meetup and such? I do understand about being forced and not fitting in with people. The friends and clients I have who are gay and lesbians, they have told me that others have issues and hangups they need to work through and so they are just different...odd...so I know what you mean. But there are lots of ordinary gay and lesbian people out there, nice, fun, normal people. If you are truly alone where you live, maybe you need to move, a total life change.

 

But first you need to cut off this woman.