Clarity is so hard to find...

[BreakingWave]

Jenkins,

 

Thank you for your words. I am very grateful that you are here to share the story from the other perspective. I have a feeling that you and my MW are very similar, at least in the way you describe your own emotional journey. I know you have often said that you loved your AP deeply. I believe my MW loves me, too.

 

That's honestly part of what is most frightening to me - that you did love her, care about her, but ultimately chose to go NC with her so you could repair your marriage. It frightens me to think this is what will happen with me and my MW - that she'll leave and watch from afar as I break down completely and she'll just not give any indication that she gives a **** in the name of it being "what's best for both of us."

 

Because I really think this is gonna kill me. I do not think I will make it through. I don't even believe I want to make it through anymore.

 

BW

[BTDT2012]

Jenkins,

 

Thank you for your words. I am very grateful that you are here to share the story from the other perspective. I have a feeling that you and my MW are very similar, at least in the way you describe your own emotional journey. I know you have often said that you loved your AP deeply. I believe my MW loves me, too.

 

That's honestly part of what is most frightening to me - that you did love her, care about her, but ultimately chose to go NC with her so you could repair your marriage. It frightens me to think this is what will happen with me and my MW - that she'll leave and watch from afar as I break down completely and she'll just not give any indication that she gives a **** in the name of it being "what's best for both of us."

 

Because I really think this is gonna kill me. I do not think I will make it through. I don't even believe I want to make it through anymore.

 

BW

 

Work on your personal relationship with God. Please, please seek professional help. You don't have to spiral into darkness.

[BreakingWave]

Thanks, BTD. I took Birdies' suggestion and looked into programs at the local colleges/universities - I live near Atlanta and there are several universities within an hour, so I was hopeful. Unfortunately none of them serve outside communities, and seeing a professional is simply not within my budget. It looks like IC is out. I saw a therapist many years ago when my income was higher than it is now to deal with anxiety and depression, and it was helpful. I know it would be helpful now, but sadly it isn't a possibility.

 

I do know, cognitively, what I could be doing to help myself. I'm doing some of those things. I'm working out, eating well, and meditating/praying daily. I don't feel better yet, but I accept these things take time.

 

I'm stressed out about a number of things in my life. The truth is I wasn't in great emotional shape before this happened, but then it did and I had this brief period of believing my life was really headed somewhere, and it's all crashing down around me now. But I was in a place where I was not constantly thinking I'd be better off dead. It's a low bar but it's something better than where I am now.

[elaine567]

The truth is I wasn't in great emotional shape before this happened...

Not an uncommon story, had you been emotionally strong, you would never have got yourself involved with a MW and accepted the secondary role in her life.

You would have demanded more for yourself and walked away early doors.

[BTDT2012]

You may also want to look into mental health clinics that have a sliding fee scale. I wish you all the best.

[Birdies]

You may also want to look into mental health clinics that have a sliding fee scale. I wish you all the best.

 

Great idea. My ex-husband was having some deep depressive incidents while he was back in school, and he was able to see a therapist and be prescribed medicine for something like five dollars a month since he didn't have an income.

 

OP, I am really sorry you're going through this. The sooner you can break away from this affair that overall is adding a lot of anxiety and feelings of worthlessness into your life, the sooner you can start to heal yourself. Maybe think of this affair as a new hobby you picked up that you realize you didn't like it all. Can you focus on a different hobby? Book club, yoga, knitting, birdwatching, geocaching, volunteering at an animal shelter or women's shelter, etc. Something to distract you and give you some purpose.

 

I know how hard it must be to reconcile the way this affair first felt, with what you are now experiencing. But the sooner you can realize that this is the new reality, hopefully the sooner you can put yourself and your own emotional health first and cut off this toxic relationship.

 

Jenkins is right thay there really are no winners in an affair.

Edited June 13, 2017 by Birdies

[MJJean]

Breaking Wave... First, hugs to you. I found your thread last night, got the worst temperature change migraine I have ever had (it went from 95+ the last few days to 65 in hours), ended up unable to open my eyes, and doped myself up to sleep it off. Woke up 4 am my time, read the rest of your thread, and felt maybe I could help. I'm telling you about the migraine (seriously, they suck if you've never had one) to let you know that even internet strangers care, so no fair harming yourself in any way!!!

 

I am worried about you. I know you've been trying to find counseling and I think that is the best thing for you, provided the counselor is a good one. Income being an issue, try your local county mental health website. Ours has a list of "guidance centers" that operate on a sliding scale fee system. Also, try looking for specialized minority counseling programs. Since you're gay I'm wondering if there are counseling options available to you that are funded by gay rights organizations and public donations or counselors who work free through such organizations to help folks cope with the challenges of being a minority. Might be worth checking into.

 

I am a former WW. I had multiple affairs in my first marriage. The actions, words, and phrasings your MW use are damn near exactly the ones I used when I was trying to keep my AP's from letting things get emotionally messy. She is literally telling you and showing you that you are a friend and an occasional sex partner, but nothing more. She even loves you as a person, but she is not in love with you and she isn't going to leave her husband, family, and life for you. She compartmentalizes. You are time out of time. A guilty pleasure. A shameful secret.

 

You better believe you'd be ruthlessly ejected from her life if you ever became a threat to her family or reputation.

 

You deserve better.

 

I am one of those people who believes you can't go back to just friends after breaking the physical intimacy barrier. I think your best bet is to cut contact, heal, and stay away from married women in any kind of romantic capacity.

 

Easier said than done, I know.

 

The trick is to keep busy. Be socially active. Do volunteer work. Clean. Everything. Start making new friends and acquaintances by any means necessary. Tell them you're looking for a mate. Explain you need to take your time and any prospective dates would need to be friends before it could possibly develop further. Pretty much everybody knows a lesbian or two. Someone, somewhere, is or knows the perfect woman for you.

[honeytomb]

BreakingWave,

 

First, I haven't technically had an A. I had a boyfriend for awhile and my H knew about it and was fine with it. At first, I talked to BF all the time, then less often, and eventually began avoiding him. My interest in him faded, it was easier to not deal with him, and when I was home, I felt I should be spending time with H. (I regret avoiding him and wish I had just broken it off with him sooner but I was being selfish and cowardly. I am not exactly comfortable admitting this here but I want to give you some perspective.)

 

I am sorry to say that your MW's feelings are not as strong as they once were (which you are aware of, as you realize that she used to make time for you.) Some of the lust/infatuation has faded and whether that be because of time passing or her guilt, it doesn't change that it has. She may love you, but she does not love you enough. Even the way she speaks to you - she doesn't refer to you as her girlfriend or even her lover, just her "secret friend". Do you want to be just a "secret friend" to someone? Because that is what you will be. She cannot accept the part of herself that loves you. She will continue having her tolerable if not stimulating home life and get her excitement and emotional fulfillment with you on the side. She is not being a good friend or lover to you. You speak of protecting her, but she does nothing to protect you (even the way her lifestyle with her H ends up being thrown in your face. I am not saying she does it intentionally, but it certainly isn't at the forefront of her mind to gentle with you or sensitive towards you.) She tells you not to worry about her, which is fine, you shouldn't, but since she does not want you to worry about her, she is released from feeling as though she has to worry about you as well. Everything you have mentioned shows that all of the concern in the relationship is for her. Relationships with marrieds do have a rare kind of loneliness and isolation, but that is especially palpable here.

 

It is interesting that you say you do not feel connected to the LGBTQ community and you have chosen to be with someone with whom your relationship must be closeted. I do think you would benefit from talk therapy. You say you are close to your parents, could you maybe ask for their help? I know it isn't ideal but you seem to suffer from low self-esteem. I am happy to hear you are meditating and exercising. Keep it up. And keep posting here and/or find someone to message. You definitely need to be able to talk about these things or you will be more isolated and susceptible to MW's whims.

 

You speak of feeling out of place in the world and that you always have, I feel like that, too. In that case, you have to build your own world. Right now you are living in hers. Your reason to live has to be you. You are worth living for. Especially right now, focus on you. Find new things to enjoy, and get closer to those other wonderful friends you have. Each day when you wake up, know you are doing it for you and you are more than enough. Feeling behind in life is not rare; I think we all do. But we get where we are going eventually.

 

You said you never loved before now. That doesn't mean you will never love again. It means that something has been opened inside you and you have found the ability to love. It absolutely means you can love someone else. That you have a loving, romantic, and selfless nature shines through in your posts. You deserve someone who is the same way with you. You don't even have to look for someone else, they will find you. You need time to heal anyway, on your own. If you enjoy getting to know someone over time and then dating, that is fine, but you can't do that while you are giving that time to someone who doesn't even appreciate it, nor while you are in such an unhealthy situation and state of mind.

 

I understand that it is especially hard to let go of someone who seems to be all the things you have always desired, but realize that by not giving you the love and attention you deserve, she is effectively not what you desire. Sometimes what we want is not what we need.

 

If she is pulling you back in with her words or presence, you need to go NC. Even better, move away, but I understand that option may not be financially viable. If you cannot make yourself go NC, I fear you will be trapped in this spiral until something finally breaks (things come out in the open or she breaks it off with you.) The best thing to do would probably be to make her choose. If (and probably when) she doesn't choose you, you will be forced to move forward. You are waiting for her to get a push to know she wants to be with you, but you are the one who needs a push to know that she will never be with you like you need.

 

I am so sorry. My words are probably harsh but they come from a place of caring for the very real pain emanating from your posts. I see you getting sadder as time goes on and it is worrisome. Everyone here knows you deserve more and wants better for you. We are on your side. You must be as well.

[BreakingWave]

Thanks, everyone.

 

I have a pretty decent income - I won't qualify for reduced fees. My issue is student loans and credit card debt incurred while out of work several years ago. I chose not to declare bankruptcy and to slowly, surely pay back everything I owe (student loans aren't dischargeable anyway, and that's where a chunk of income goes every month.) So for me it isn't lack of income so much as too many expenses that is presenting the financial barrier.

 

I am going to prioritize myself and my goals and concentrate on trying to hate MW until I can just be indifferent. I am clearly easy for her to toss aside. She only pretended to care. Nothing she ever told me was real. She is a liar and a manipulator and I am a fool. That is the only way any of this makes sense in my head.

 

I do not buy she ever cared or loved and then one day she just wasn't into me anymore. She never did. I was an ego scratch. I am worthless to her. I could throw myself off a building and she would probably feel an immense sense of relief because then her secrets would be safe. I could die in a fire and I bet she would not shed a tear. Nobody could do this unless they simply do not have a heart.

 

She doesn't give a damn about me and never did. That is the ONLY belief I can allow myself to have if I want to make it through this.

[BreakingWave]

I should add that last night she asked me to come over to say goodbye before she leaves for two weeks. I was really happy that she wanted to see me, and was still feeling weak. I went over but the house was full, and H came home a couple of hours earlier than expected.

 

When I got back, she texted to see if I'd made it home safely (it was storming) and I said yes and sent her a kiss emoji saying "here's the [kiss] I couldn't give you in person." She said, "Lol." I said "What, didn't want one?" and she said, "Huh?" I said "a kiss." She said, "Oh! Didn't know what you meant. Going crazy, can't find my eyelash serum."

 

... so basically she's simply ignoring me trying to be sweet or flirtatious. What bigger sign could there be that she thinks that I am worthless, that my feelings mean NOTHING to her. Whereas last week we were all hot and heavy. And why even invite me over "to say goodbye" which to me sends a very clear message that we are more than friends, only to treat me like an irritant later on?

 

I am trying so, so hard to hate this woman.

[freengreen]

She has this loong thread that you are stringed to...from another room she just pulls it whenever she likes and feels happy seeing you come with the thread.

 

Wonder how she will feel when one day the thread comes to her all the way and she discovers that nothing is attached to it....

 

She knows she isnt going to be serious with you, she knows what you want and she knows you wont get it ( its her, not you)...then why just string you along?... bigger thought : why get stringed along?

[MJJean]

You don't understand why she wasn't responding to your texts? I can explain. First, no evidence. If she responded in the manner of lovers it would be clear evidence of an affair. She probably couldn't get time alone and undistracted to sanitize her phone, so she was avoiding incriminating herself just in case. Second, she really is busy getting herself and her husband ready for their trip.

 

This isn't going to change. If you stay in contact with her you'll always have​ to watch from the sidelines while she lives her real life with her husband and family. It's masochistic. Don't. Please.

[BreakingWave]

MJ,

 

Thanks for the advice. FWIW, when I say "text," I mean Snapchat. That has been our primary means of written communication for months because of the self-deleting feature. It was getting annoying and, she said, emotionally difficult for her to delete the sweet and intimate texts that she loved receiving from me.

 

 

In this case, just ignoring it and responding with something totally unrelated seemed like an unequivocal "you are dirt to me."

 

 

Though I do believe she was legit super busy - she got about four hours of sleep last night as she's also managing her parents' move to another state - and I don't hold her being busy against her, I don't understand why she can't either send me a kiss back or tell me she's going to miss me or *anythig* that doesn't take any more thought than the small talk she decided to make instead. She does send texts/snaps almost daily asking how my studying is going, what I'm up to, but it's all very platonic.

 

 

It just makes me feel marginalized. I think it's just as others have suggested. I'm a fun toy when she has both time and the inclination. Otherwise I'm not even a blip on her radar, not even a thought in her head. I have given her too much credit thinking she's all tortured and guilty and believing her tears when she would cry in my arms. What an actress! What a liar!

[MJJean]

Honey, you ARE marginalized. Being marginalized is part and parcel of the OW/OM gig. It's that " know your role" thing. I don't doubt she cares about you, but she cares about herself, her husband, her lifestyle, and her reputation far more.

 

She's not so much an actress as a drama queen. The drama if it all is part of the affair fantasy.

 

In her mind, she's been honest with you about her intentions, she's even advised you date and she is doing the friend push-lover pull because she thinks that will somehow establish a boundary that keeps you in your place. It's also how she absolves herself of guilt over you because, hey, you knew what you were getting into and volunteered for it.

 

She's not evil, just toxic to you.

[BreakingWave]

I hate myself for loving her, for letting her do this to me, for believing anything she ever told me, for believing I was ever going to be enough for her to walk away from everything else she has. And now I hate myself for wanting her to hurt, to feel an inkling of the pain she's caused me. But no, she's living it up with the H she chooses every day, will always choose over me. Her life is just fine while mine falls apart. She's laughing as I cry. She's just fine. She will ALWAYS be just fine because she's a liar who never gave a damn about me, who never will. I could be found dead in a ditch and she'd just feel relief that her secrets will never be spilled.

 

You're all absolutely right. She TOLD ME. She made it clear. Except for the times she didn't. She told me to see other people... and that she would never be able to stop wanting me. She told me she would probably never leave her marriage... and that she loved me deeply. She told me she knew she was being selfish and was no good for me... and that she couldn't pretend not to have feelings, that she loved everything about me, especially my heart. She told me we were a friendship first and foremost... and that she could talk to me in ways she'd never felt safe talking to her husband.

 

And she knew how I felt, I told her I was in love with her and wanted to spend the rest of my life with her. She listened, but she still went ahead and put me in a specific box and took me in and out to suit her whims. I let it all happen. I want to blame her, but this is my fault.

 

The sickest part? All she'd have to do is look at me with those beautiful eyes, apologize, and I'd take her right back. I need to prepare for the eventual small-talk, casual snaps she's going to send me from her vacation. I need to prepare for her request for a casual hang-out when she gets back. I used to think this was because she *does* value my friendship. Now I don't know. Maybe she's trying to keep me from hating her so she doesn't have to worry I'll start telling people. Or maybe that's never crossed her mind because she knows I'm as loyal to her as she's never been to me.

 

I've thought about unfriending her, about removing Snapchat from my phone... but I want to throw up every time I think about it. This woman has been my best friend for a long time, my lover for almost a year. To cut her off without a word, to ignore her when she inevitably tries to act like there's nothing wrong and we're still besties... it seems cruel. But you know, it isn't nearly as cruel as what she's done to me. Still I feel like that's the coward's way out, like she deserves an explanation.

 

And again... I still don't *want* to let her go. Right now I'm trying to make her a monster in my mind so that it might be remotely possible to start wanting a life without her. But she isn't a monster. She's just my monster. And the woman I love.

Edited June 16, 2017 by BreakingWave

[BigBlueSky]

BW, I am so sad to hear that you are going through such a hard time. I can tell that you love her deeply. I think it's easy to try to guess her motives and her heart for the way that she's been acting and treating you and although others may be right, only she really knows.

 

For myself, because I am married but fell for someone outside of my marriage, for myself and my MM I know it was full of internal conflict, guilt and turmoil for most of the relationship. I wonder if some of her actions are a result of her trying to create distance between you and her because part of her wants to hang on and the other part of her wants to let go. Like I said though, only she really knows.

 

I know you're feeling angry at her which is totally justified. And part of you wants to take the anger out on her and make decisions based on your anger. But I have this feeling that because you love her, I think decisions made out of love for her would resonate more with the person that you are. (Or maybe I'm projecting because that's how I made my decision!)

 

I think for me, I realized that the most loving thing I could do was to let my MM go. I'm not saying that decisions born out of anger are wrong, but I personally think that decisions born out of love are better ones, more thought out. And ultimately you should love yourself and take care of you and your needs.

 

Thinking of you tonight. Take care of yourself!

[honeytomb]

She may be worried about you telling other people but it's just as likely that she is trying to give you just enough to keep you so you will be there when she wants you. Or maybe she really is trying to shift you back into the realm of just a friend, which shows that it is not as painful for her as it is for you. If it helps you to think of her as not caring about it at all, then that is probably for the best.

 

You don't have to ghost her or cut her off, but you need to make sure you are strong enough to have the talk and stick to it. It sounds like she is persuasive so it may be easier to not have it in person. I think honesty is the best and if she truly cares about you, she will respect your wishes enough to let you go and not manipulate you into staying with her. You can explain that it causes too much turmoil for you to be with someone who won't be with you fully, that you don't find it easy to see others while you are seeing her and that you need to let go of your relationship for the sake of your health. And if she tries to keep you from doing that, it will be a reminder that she cares more about herself.

 

Your friendship may not survive, but that is often the case when friendships turn more physical or romantic. Better to lose a friend than lose yourself completely.

[BreakingWave]

Thanks, Honeytomb. I think the worst part is I don't want to let her go at all. I know it is the smart, healthy thing. I get all the reasons I am supposed to want it. But I just don't. I have a feeling she's made that decision for us again. Whether her mind will change yet again, I have no idea. I do think you got it exactly right when you said she doesn't care as much as I do.

[BreakingWave]

Today I removed Facebook, Instagram, and Snapchat from my phone. The first two so that I won't be tempted to look at her vacation pictures all the time (though, to her credit, she isn't posting much at all and when she does, there's none of the crap about how much she adores H like there was last time. I expect with Father's Day tomorrow she'll lay it on thick and I just. don't. need. to. see. it.) I removed Snapchat because it's our primary form of communication. She hasn't bothered to say as much as "hello" for two days now, so I want to remove the temptation to answer her right away if she does indeed spare me a minute to see how I'm doing or what's up. I am planning to add Snapchat back tomorrow. If there's still no word, I'll take it off for two days, etc.

 

Is there a rhyme or reason here? Probably not, but I guess for me it's a small mental victory knowing I'm not setting myself up to be instantly available every time she decides to care.

[honeytomb]

Great progress, BreakingWave. Small victories lead to bigger ones. Wishing you a peaceful week.

[BigBlueSky]

Definitely a victory that you removed those apps from your phone! Was it helpful for you? How did your weekend go?

[BreakingWave]

i wish I could say it was a peaceful weekend but it really wasn't. I told a friend who lives in another state about the situation a while ago. She has not been supportive and when I was crying about missing MW, she really laid into me about how I must have known this was coming and that it would never work out. I said she was kicking me while I was down, and she became so upset with me. The next two hours was basically a long list of everything I've ever done wrong and I think I'm losing a very close friend as well.

 

As far as MW, I eventually reinstalled the apps on Sunday night, after more than three days of silence. I waited a few hours to open her first text when it came through on Sunday evening, because I kind of already knew it would be a very casual, meaningless message, and it was. "Hi, how are you, this place is great," etc. Just completely blew past the awkward conversation we'd ended things on before she left. I don't really want to have a hostile text conversation while she's on vacation, either, so I waited until the next morning to respond with my own friendly but short message.

 

She's been posting lots of pictures of their trip to FB, but I guess what I said really registered because she's not doing any overly lovey dovey posts about her H. Just beautiful landscapes and a couple of photos of the two of them. That's made it less of a heartache to see them, but ultimately I know she's choosing to be there with him, that she is not choosomg to be with me.

 

She texted about the weather and having to buy a jacket. I just didn't respond. It isn't that I don't want to talk to her, I just got the feeling she was bored and I could have been anyone. She didn't say she missed me or give me any reason to feel as though she does. So... I decided not to get sucked into once again being the person she only talks to when she's bored.

 

My plan for self-preservation now is to step back as much as I possibly can make myself and let her chase me, or not. I'm done trying ten times harder than her, I'm done feeling humiliated. And if she's just texting to tell me it's cold, or ask me to hang out with her and H when she gets back (she wants me to go out on their new boat and, I guess, pretend I'm not in love with her while I watch her play happy couple with him) I am going to let her know that that's just not my idea of a good time.

Edited June 20, 2017 by BreakingWave
Grammar/typos

[BigBlueSky]

I actually think you are moving forward and that you should be proud of yourself. You allowed yourself to have space from her for a few days, and you're recognizing that you need to protect yourself. Definitely a step in the right direction! You deserve so much better than what she is offering you. I know it's hard to let go, especially since your friendship predates the affair but I think you're seeing how it's affecting you negatively and you're starting to put up boundaries.

 

Thanks for your encouragement on my thread. It means a lot to me to have a non-judgmental listening ear. I hope I can be the same for you!

[BreakingWave]

Hi BBS,

 

You certainly are that. I am so appreciative of you and the other wonderful people who are keeping up with my unfolding story. Today has been harder. This morning, I saw a notification that MW was typing a message - Snapchat actually lets you know the second someone starts texting you, and again once the message has been sent. Whatever she was typing, she either lost a connection or changed her mind, because eight hours later no message ever came. I finally decided it doesn't matter what happened - I have promised myself that she will have to work harder and I'm not going to reach out to her every day, even if I think of her every minute, which I still do. It might be a small measure of dignity but people will continue to treat us the way we allow them to, and I want her to go back to making more effort. If she doesn't want to, then that tells me what I need to know.

 

 

I can't see ever not wanting her or loving her. I know time is supposed to heal everything, but it's very hard for me to see life after this.

[Southern Sun]

Wow, BreakingWave, you are really in the thick of it.

 

I've read through most of your posts, though not quite all. The one about you texting her something sweet and loving and her responding with crap resonated with me. My xMM used to do that BS to me. It was very hurtful. You said you felt marginalized and MJJean very astutely pointed out it is because you ARE marginalized. I hope you can see that. You are fighting for something you don't have...won't have. She is managing you down with communication like that. You offer her kind and loving words...kisses and emotion...and she responds with small talk.

 

I remember saying something to my xMM one time about wishing I was on a trip with him. This was after HE had re-initiated contact with me (and I had previously been NC). My emotions were back and invested again. He had made a comment in passing about wanting me to be on the trip. And then I offered this sentiment. He ignored me for about 24 hours. And then he finally responded the next day with a load of bull about some stuff he did on the trip, completely glossing over my dangling heart.

 

But that was him, distancing himself. He regularly put me back in my place using communication (cold, no response, different subject, etc.).

 

Did he want me there for him, though? You bet.

 

It is very tempting to look at them as some kind of Machiavellian sadists. I think in reality, they are just very self-centered. They really love how we made them feel. They love us to the extent that they can. And they want to maintain the relationship, while being unable to give fully back. Even when told it's extremely painful for us, they hang on. But I also learned part of that is my responsibility. Because if it is THAT painful, I needed to uphold my own boundaries and walk away. By telling him it hurts and I don't like that kind of relationship, but letting him do it anyway, he eventually thought I've gotten over it...that I was accepting his terms.

 

Your MW may be thinking the same thing of you.

 

You obviously have a lot of love to give. I do hope you find someone more worthy. Eventually you will see that she's not the one. I just don't know if you're totally ready. Sometimes, it takes more hurt to get there.