Clarity is so hard to find...

[MJJean]

So I did message her after a week of no contact. And going by her reaction, which may not mean anything, all the drama is solely on my end. Here I was agonizing about not speaking to her in a week. But when I sent: "Hi, I'm not trying to ignore you, I'm just trying to focus on the Bar which is in ten days, yikes. How are you?" she responded about a minute later saying "Yes, you do need to focus on the bar" and then making casual conversation about what she's been up to. Like we're buddies and nothing important has changed.

 

I don't know what I expected. Probably exactly what happened. But it's all beginning to solidify in my mind. She plans to move on like nothing ever happened. She's probably already started to convince herself that it was all in my mind and she never gave me reasons to believe she honestly cared about me.

 

I know that the goal is to get to a place where I don't care about her anymore.... a place where it doesn't pain me to think of her, when I don't still cling to some dumb hope that we can ever be like we were in the beginning, a place where I'm actually open to meeting someone else. But I can't even begin to imagine any of those things right now.

 

I miss her. And the worst part is knowing she does NOT miss me. Or think about me.

 

This thinking is why it's so easy to get sucked in. In your mind, she doesn't care so any show of caring gives you hope for something more. Then, when something more doesn't happen, you lose hope. Rinse and repeat.

 

The reality is she's been honest with you and the drama IS largely in your head. She does care for you. The same way she cares for her other friends. To her, you're a FWB. She cares, but she doesn't care the way you want her to care. So, to her, you ARE buddies and nothing important has changed.

[BreakingWave]

https://youtu.be/WJ-aWRVm9uQ

 

I watched this a million times and it is so TRUE.

 

I got it here off LS.

 

 

Thanks, MidnightBlue - I had seen that ages ago, and it was nice to listen to the wisdom of Madea all over again. Truer words were never spoken, I suppose.

 

MJJean - She's often told me that I'm her "best friend" and that she hasn't had a close female friend since high school. She married young and most of her social circle is couples she knows through her H's job, people she generally doesn't like very much. But in terms of being up talking about whatever's on her mind, coming to me with problems she didn't feel safe discussing with her H, that definitely put me in a unique category. I'm just amazed she's turned all of that off as well as the romantic side of things.

[MJJean]

Thanks, MidnightBlue - I had seen that ages ago, and it was nice to listen to the wisdom of Madea all over again. Truer words were never spoken, I suppose.

 

MJJean - She's often told me that I'm her "best friend" and that she hasn't had a close female friend since high school. She married young and most of her social circle is couples she knows through her H's job, people she generally doesn't like very much. But in terms of being up talking about whatever's on her mind, coming to me with problems she didn't feel safe discussing with her H, that definitely put me in a unique category. I'm just amazed she's turned all of that off as well as the romantic side of things.

 

The bolded part? Yeah, that's pretty much the same thing every WW says to their AP in some form or another.

 

"I've never felt so close to someone before!"

 

"My BW/BH doesn't understand me. I can't talk to him/her the way I can talk to you."

 

"For the first time in my life, I don't feel so alone."

 

and, of course, some variation of

 

"I've never told this to another living soul.."

 

 

Remember, actions, not words. She can SAY anything she likes, but her actions show you the truth.

 

I had an on and off affair with a man named J for 6 years. I met J through my exH. J and exH were very close friends and then J and I became close friends. Then we became more than friends.

 

Of course, I poured out my heart to him. He was my closest friend! For me, the very close friendship was in one compartment and the sexual relationship was in another compartment.

[BreakingWave]

I guess that makes sense - unlike MM, MW don't usually stray unless they feel an emotional connection with the AP that somehow fills a void in their lives. When your affair ended, MJ, did the friendship also end? There are many hurtful aspects to what I'm going through, but the thought that she's willing to throw away our friendship is definitely one of them. It isn't that I necessarily would want to preserve a platonic friendship, it just makes me think it was all a phase for her and that she won't even miss me.

[Vivir]

Breaking Wave, your last post really breaks my heart for you. Processing these various aspects is all part of the healing process itself. There are no shortcuts, and you'll have to navigate your way through it the best you can.

 

Ordinarily, we don't look far ahead enough when embarking on affair relationships. If we knew that the original relationship with the person would be ruined in the end, would we even start an affair? Even if your friendship isn't over, it has undergone a significant change. The overall dynamic between the two of you has changed dramatically.

 

No Contact is mostly to heal oneself, to restore or incorporate a real boundary. It is not for the other person, to make them feel bad or good. It is for the enforcer's own sanity. It is quite painful to be "just friends" with someone in whom you have a romantic interest.

 

I would suggest you grieve the end of the friendship. People do what is best for them. This year, I lost three friends. One, I met as a 12-year old. I had always wanted to be her friend! She hadn't felt the same way in a long, long time, I suppose. Over the years, it became harder and harder for me to reach her. She was married, and had a new life. Our intermittent contact hurt me so much, and she and I had never had any physical relationship like you and your xMW. The last straw for her was learning about the affair. She hasn't spoken to me since.

 

Another friend was one I met at 13. I took her in when no one else wanted to be her friend. My family provided her shelter, and I never let her go. But over the years... again... our lives went in separate directions. I grew to resent her always needing or wanting major things from me. And she had become so unhappy in her life with her husband and children (gasp!) that she literally let go of us all. Her husband had to relocate to get help with the children so he could work. She is in the wind. She doesn't call, but her bill collectors call me ever so often. I am angry with her that she left my young goddaughters... It is a mess.

 

As well, xMM was also considered a friend. I couldn't stand to hear him talk about his family life. He knew how I felt, and he knew that he wouldn't divorce. He tried to pretend that we could go back to being "friends," but that insulted me and diminished my very real feelings. He even busted my boundaries to try to preserve this "friendship" - which was still on his terms and all about what he wanted. He would call at his convenience. He would come over unannounced under the guise of "checking on me." He just further angered me, but I don't think he cared, so long as he could satisfy his own want.

 

It is very hard to learn to be alone when desiring the exact opposite. I suffer a great deal from loneliness. I realize the two are not the same thing... but my point is that I am navigating the best I can, and I am continuing to learn to be my own best friend... to love myself... to be OK if it is just going to be me and no one else.

 

My best wishes go to you, Breaking Wave. I hope that my long-winded story has helped you in some way - even as a distraction. May you gain peace and closure on your journey.

[BreakingWave]

Vivir -

 

Good to hear from you again! I know there are many points on which you and I can relate. I've recently read some of your "Thoughts of the OW" posts and see a great deal of similarity. As always, your responses here give me a lot to consider as well as a feeling of solidarity. I think you're right - I have to mourn the friendship, too, as that has also only ever been on her terms. The trick will be remembering that I'm not a victim here and this can only break me to the extent that I allow. That is so much easier said than done, honestly, and I don't think I'm anywhere close to there yet. I still wake up and go to sleep thinking about her, but I am at least functional again. I am very conscious of the fact that she hasn't made any effort to call or see me, and that she only texts at all when I text her first. I broke my resolve not to initiate contact this weekend, and what resulted was small talk that only left me feeling worse about myself because it sent the message that I was willing to have a casual conversation, willing to play her games.

 

Your post over on "A Sorry Tale" also made me remember something early in our romantic involvement. She knew my history, knew I've never had a solid, healthy romantic relationship and that as I head toward 40, had started losing hope that I ever would. She told me, "The last thing I want is to be just another ****ty relationship for you." Oh, that knife in my back is *throbbing* to think of those words today.

 

I've also lost a good friendship this year - rather, it's currently harmed, and I don't think it will recover. I told a friend who's been like family for the past 7 years about the affair (she lives in another state and does not know MW personally, unlike the vast majority of my friends) and she was horrified. Her father was unfaithful to her mother and of course she sees it from that point of view, which I am not suggesting isn't an equally valid POV. But it definitely led to her lashing out at me on a number of occasions and becoming upset when being in a relationship in which I was largely at someone else's beck and call left me considerably less available to her. Even months later, she still reminds me that I suck on a regular basis - that isn't something I have much patience for anymore as I try to rebuild myself.

 

My only goal at the moment is not to let it interfere with passing the Bar exam, something necessary to my moving forward on several fronts. I just can't imagine a day when I don't miss MW's presence in my life; when I don't go back and try to imagine what I could have done differently (nothing, I know.) To know she and H are constantly doing things together a stone's throw from my apartment, to know she isn't even thinking about me while she lives her life... it just makes me feel so used, so worthless to her. I don't know how she can do that. It makes me feel sick, physically pained to see how disposable I was in the end.

 

Cheers to you, Vivir, and everyone else struggling because we loved someone who didn't deserve it.

Edited July 17, 2017 by BreakingWave

[MJJean]

I guess that makes sense - unlike MM, MW don't usually stray unless they feel an emotional connection with the AP that somehow fills a void in their lives. When your affair ended, MJ, did the friendship also end? There are many hurtful aspects to what I'm going through, but the thought that she's willing to throw away our friendship is definitely one of them. It isn't that I necessarily would want to preserve a platonic friendship, it just makes me think it was all a phase for her and that she won't even miss me.

 

It's complicated, rofl! Isn't it always?

 

We were close friends and then crossed the line. We agreed we would keep our friendship separate from the sexual relationship. True FWB's. Except it never really worked that way. He'd get involved, I'd back off, we'd not talk for a few months, he'd turn up, we'd agree to be "just friends", we'd fall back into the affair, rinse and repeat.

 

Really, the affair probably would have ended when I realized he was getting emotionally involved the first time, except I didn't want to lose his friendship, so we'd spend time together and end up back at square one.

 

Being brutally honest, he was a phase for me and I did miss his friendship when it was finally truly over. It wasn't some all consuming sorrow or anything. It was more like I'd think about him occasionally or I'd see or hear something that would trigger a memory with him and then the moment would pass and I'd continue on with whatever I was doing.

[BreakingWave]

 

Really, the affair probably would have ended when I realized he was getting emotionally involved the first time, except I didn't want to lose his friendship, so we'd spend time together and end up back at square one.

 

Being brutally honest, he was a phase for me and I did miss his friendship when it was finally truly over. It wasn't some all consuming sorrow or anything. It was more like I'd think about him occasionally or I'd see or hear something that would trigger a memory with him and then the moment would pass and I'd continue on with whatever I was doing.

 

This could describe my relationship with xMW as well... sadly, I think that's how she feels about me now. I even imagine her pitying me, the pathetic little lesbian who dared fall in love and think she'd actually return my feelings.

[MJJean]

This could describe my relationship with xMW as well... sadly, I think that's how she feels about me now. I even imagine her pitying me, the pathetic little lesbian who dared fall in love and think she'd actually return my feelings.

 

The reality was that I cared for J as a very close friend, I just wasn't in love with him. I felt a very deep friendship and a powerful physical attraction, but that's not love. I knew that and was honest with him. So, I didn't pity him. He was a full grown adult who knew what he was getting into. I did feel sad for hurting him, which is not the same as pity.

[BreakingWave]

No contact didn't work - but she was the one who broke it a couple of times. I was short and sweet at first, but now we're talking on the phone again. I was proud of myself after the first phone call (during which she talked at length about how she and H are redecorating their home and also looking at possible NEW homes) - when she asked if I would like to get together, I told her I was too busy with Bar prep and it will likely be at least a week. This was actually a big deal for me and I know it caught her by surprise - it's the first time in nine months I haven't jumped at the chance to see her. She sounded surprised but quickly recovered and said okay. (The big exam is next Tuesday and Wednesday.)

 

We've had two more phone calls since then. I have purposely remained upbeat and casual, the opposite of how I feel. This is definitely more for my own sake than hers. I don't want to appear pathetic or beaten down, even if that's how I've felt most of the summer. I'm also not ready to completely write her off (I know many would advise me to do exactly that.)

 

I realize she's not going to leave. I realize I am more invested than she is. But I also believe she does care. I'm not sure what that means, honestly. I can't imagine ever not wanting our relationship to be what it once was, and I know that it will be very difficult for me to just be a friend and outside observer in her world when we were once so emotionally and physically intimate.

 

I am constantly wondering what she's thinking, what she wants... will she ever want to be romantic with me again? Is she well and truly over it? She never officially closed the door, she just...froze me out for a while and is now warming back up, albeit in a platonic way. I don't think it's fair or healthy for us to proceed as if nothing happened, and I do believe that it's necessary for her to understand how deeply she has hurt me, though I have no interest in having that conversation before I take and pass the Bar Exam next week. I just don't want the emotional drama before then, because I'm finally at a place where I don't cry every day. My attachment and love for her hasn't changed, but I can make it through the day without wanting to die or experience an uncontrollable crying jag, and that feels important.

 

She's asked me again if I will see her Monday, because I mentioned wanting to take the day before the exam "off" to mostly relax and chill rather than try to cram anything else in. I don't believe she would in a million years ask me to see her if she planned to lower some big emotional boom. But it would be the first meaningful time I'd spent with her since early June, and I know the smart money is on declining the offer and considering whether I want to do something after the Bar. It'll be harder then than during the summer, but... it's sort of her fault, not mine, that we haven't seen each other in so long.

 

Worst part is? I'm still hoping she wants me. I'm not proud of that, I know it's indicative that I still have work to do on myself. But my saddest moments are the ones when I start to believe she's changed her mind and doesn't want me anymore.

Edited July 21, 2017 by BreakingWave

[Zolatola]

It's only hard because you stay. It doesn't have to be hard. If you leave, you begin a period where the hard eventually gets easy. The hard that you're choosing never gets easier.

[Doublegold]

BreakingWave just want to send positve thoughts and best wishes for the Bar Exam!

 

Take Care.

[lostgirl87]

Omg you're going through all of this while studying for the Bar?!? Bless your heart! One of my dogs passed away 3 weeks before my exam and it was awful! I couldn't imagine dealing with a relationship or a breakup (kind of?) while studying for the bar. I actually refused to date my entire last year of law school to avoid it lol.

 

Fair warning: what I'm about to say may not be the best advice. A therapist or most people here will probably have my head but I'm going to say it anyway. If I were you, I would see her and spend a fun, carefree, no serious talk kind of day with her. You NEED this. Why? Because the bar exam is hard. It's 2 days of heavy thinking and you need your mind to be clear. If you're anything like me, I wrote half a page on what should have been a 2 page essay and I went back to my hotel room and CRIED b/c I was so stressed, emotional and convinced that I had failed the bar. Obviously I didn't but that's not the point: the point is that the bar exam on its own leaves you in a very vulnerable, scary place. You need your mind to be right. You need to be focused on all that law and not your MW. So spend that day with her. Don't talk about anything serious. Enjoy her company. Laugh, joke, be carefree. You'll at least feel good enough that it'll get you through the bar without losing focus. Seeing her one more day won't put in any worse of a position than you are now. I honestly think it will put you in a better mindset for taking the bar.

 

Even if you decide to not see her, definitely take that "off" day. If you don't know it by now, you don't know it lol. Cramming won't do anything. I'm sure you've been keeping up with bar prep the last few months so if you've done that, you've got this!

 

Please feel free to message me if you need anything or just some word and of encouragement. GOOD LUCK!!

[MidnightBlue1980]

Sorry. I totally disagree with LostGirl. I 100% do not think you should see her before the Bar exam. No f-ing way.

 

Listen here Breaking Wave. Everyone is giving you advice on your relationship with this woman. I won't. My advice is to you personally. Look out for yourself. You need to pass the Bar, right? Anyone that stands in the way of that is not your friend. I personally ended a relationship when I was studying for the CPA exam. This is your future, this is your life. It is very selfish of her to even ask that. Take care of yourself. You have 3 days to cram. You can deal with her later.

[MidnightBlue1980]

And to answer your question, of course she will be back. You are a woman, she likes whatever it is you do, you are probably better than her husband. You are a sex goddess honey, go give it to someone who deserves it and gives it back to you. But first pass the bar.

[lostgirl87]

Sorry. I totally disagree with LostGirl. I 100% do not think you should see her before the Bar exam. No f-ing way.

 

Listen here Breaking Wave. Everyone is giving you advice on your relationship with this woman. I won't. My advice is to you personally. Look out for yourself. You need to pass the Bar, right? Anyone that stands in the way of that is not your friend. I personally ended a relationship when I was studying for the CPA exam. This is your future, this is your life. It is very selfish of her to even ask that. Take care of yourself. You have 3 days to cram. You can deal with her later.

The only reason I "advised" such a thing is b/c of the way OP has been speaking and how she's feeling. If she were doing ok and able to put MW out of her head and focus on the bar then that would be great and I would have said something completely different. But honestly, she hasn't been able to do that. If she sees MW and they are able to just enjoy each other's company, at least OP will be able to stop overthinking long enough to take and pass the bar.

 

I agree it's selfish of MW to ask that. She should have backed off months ago knowing that OP had such a big exam coming up but she didn't. And OP didnt cut her off to focus solely on the bar either. My "advice" is honestly the only way I see OP being able to stop having these negative feelings affecting her for such an important exam. My suggestion was actually focused on OP and getting MW out of her head for a few days to focus on the bar. Otherwise the "I'm hurting b/c i miss her so much" thoughts will consume her as they have been.

Edited July 22, 2017 by lostgirl87

[MidnightBlue1980]

The only reason I "advised" such a thing is b/c of the way OP has been speaking and how she's feeling. If she were doing ok and able to put MW out of her head and focus on the bar then that would be great and I would have said something completely different. But honestly, she hasn't been able to do that. If she sees MW and they are able to just enjoy each other's company, at least OP will be able to stop overthinking long enough to take and pass the bar.

 

I agree it's selfish of MW to ask that. She should have backed off months ago knowing that OP had such a big exam coming up but she didn't. And OP didnt cut her off to focus solely on the bar either. My "advice" is honestly the only way I see OP being able to stop having these negative feelings affecting her for such an important exam. My suggestion was actually focused on OP and getting MW out of her head for a few days to focus on the bar. Otherwise the "I'm hurting b/c i miss her so much" thoughts will consume her as they have been.

 

But you know as well as I do that there is no point where you are happy and feel satisfied as it is an affair and never a real relationship. That high where you see the person is great but it wears off, and it may wear off as she takes the exam. Better to keep the OW waiting and feel confident while she takes the exam.

 

She can never just enjoy the MW's company. None of us could and that is what they wanted from us. "Just be happy with what we can give you." Obviously Breaking Wave is a catch and MW is reluctant to let her go.

 

Breaking Wave - you need a real woman who can treat you right. No one wants to be hidden.

[BreakingWave]

Lostgirl87 & MidnightBlue1980 -

 

Wow, thanks y'all. You've both made me smile tonight, and I really needed to! I am grateful to you both and while your advice is different, I know you're both looking out for me here and I truly appreciate it.

 

I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but I practiced law in California for a few years. When I moved back home to Georgia, I chose to begin teaching instead and never took the exam here. Now, six years after leaving law behind, I've decided to go ahead and become licensed in GA. Oddly enough, MW was a huge factor in my decision. She was a paralegal for many years before entering education, and that was part of how we initially clicked. One of the major sources of stress in my life has been that I am burdened with law school-sized student loans on a teacher salary. She was one of my biggest cheerleaders to go ahead and get it done this summer rather than put it off further. I read into that some sort of implied promise that we'd be setting ourselves up for a future, though she never directly said that.

 

I have been studying as best I can, and feel... well. One never feels truly confident before this sort of test, but if I perform as well on the actual exam as I've been doing on my practice tests, I'll pass comfortably. I did lose a week mid-summer when I realized that MW was slipping away again. She does this periodically - things reach a point where I feel mostly safe/secure, she pays me regular attention, we have great conversations, we make love a few times... then she gets completely wrapped up in her home life and I barely exist anymore. In this case it was a vacation with the H followed by moving her parents to another state. This week she found out her 20-year-old son knocked up his girlfriend. It could be a worse situation - they've been dating two years, both from families with the means and willingness to help, etc. But obviously her attention has been over there. Meanwhile apparently she and the H are thinking about buying a new home together to "downsize" as they no longer need their huge 6-bedroom place with all the acreage, etc. to maintain. Rich people problems, yo.

 

I can't really forgive how emotionally absent she's been. I told her we needed to talk. She said she knew we did. We had the following text exchange back on July 6:

 

"Me: Nothing I'm writing is coming out right - so I'll just say that I'm not trying to put a lot of pressure on the conversation. What I'm really

wondering is if we still fit, and how that looks to you. If the answer is, "I don't know," that's okay. I just want you to talk to me about it soon

so I'm not out here feeling... kinda disposable. Which I don't think is your intention but is honestly sort of how it feels over here.

 

Her: It isn't my intention to make you feel that way but nothing I can do will ever make you feel any different. I don't think I can be there

more and that's not your fault. It's the way I have chosen and what I have chosen. I care about you but that doesn't change my situation and I

don't feel like it ever will. I'm not saying that you are pressuring me or anything. But that feeling doesn't stop existing. Being there consistently

is what I should be doing, but it's not what I'm doing and not what I can see myself doing. Being with you makes me a ****ty mom and wife.

Being a better mom and wife results in me being ****ty with you. I can't seem to be able to get this right. Its not fair to you. There is a lot at

risk - your feelings and our friendship.

 

Me: I understand that being (H)'s wife and the kids' mother is a part of your identity in a way that being with me is not. I don't want you to

feel like you're ****ty at that. Or anything. All I want in the world right now is to hold you. My body aches for it. I don't know how that's ever

going to change."

 

Right. Yes. BARF at the last part, right? Why keep putting myself out there? Well, I share it with y'all because I am sure you've been in similar situations once or twice. She didn't respond to that last message until the next day, by the way, when I got the infamous, "Hi. Studying?" "Yep." "Don't want to interrupt you, just wanted to check on you."

 

Sigh. And... then days and days of silence. Followed by "Hi. How are you?" and the other minimal contact that I've written about here.

 

We haven't had a substantial conversation about the state of our relationship since that text. Which I have looked at over and over... and while at first I thought it was very clear - she's made her choice, she's chosen to be at home, invested in being a wife. But then I look at it and she never quite shuts the door, does she? So... I have no idea. She hasn't indicated to me at all in the weeks since that conversation that she wants to be anything other than my friend.

 

But y'all. It felt GOOD to laugh and joke and talk to her on the phone these last few days. Except for the part where she was telling me about getting a new house with her H. That part sucked - the reminders that she's only entrenching herself further in that life, and with this new unexpected grandchild on the way... that's where her attention will have to be.

 

I really would love to relax and smile and have a pleasant encounter with her before the Bar exam. I don't want - and don't think she wants - a Major Conversation that day. But I also don't want to spend an hour hearing about all the plans she's making that don't include me. So I'm... kinda going back and forth. What I'm confident about is that I will have my mental game right for this exam. I managed to pull off marathon study days even while falling apart every couple of hours (which is one reason I don't want to see her. She knew I was hurting and left me to hurt over here alone and now she wants to slide in at the the literal last minute like she's been Little Miss Supportive?) But then there's that dumbass inside me that knows if she gives me a little good luck kiss (fat chance, right?) I'll be even more prepared to kick ass.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Lostgirl87 & MidnightBlue1980 -

 

Wow, thanks y'all. You've both made me smile tonight, and I really needed to! I am grateful to you both and while your advice is different, I know you're both looking out for me here and I truly appreciate it.

 

I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but I practiced law in California for a few years. When I moved back home to Georgia, I chose to begin teaching instead and never took the exam here. Now, six years after leaving law behind, I've decided to go ahead and become licensed in GA. Oddly enough, MW was a huge factor in my decision. She was a paralegal for many years before entering education, and that was part of how we initially clicked. One of the major sources of stress in my life has been that I am burdened with law school-sized student loans on a teacher salary. She was one of my biggest cheerleaders to go ahead and get it done this summer rather than put it off further. I read into that some sort of implied promise that we'd be setting ourselves up for a future, though she never directly said that.

 

I have been studying as best I can, and feel... well. One never feels truly confident before this sort of test, but if I perform as well on the actual exam as I've been doing on my practice tests, I'll pass comfortably. I did lose a week mid-summer when I realized that MW was slipping away again. She does this periodically - things reach a point where I feel mostly safe/secure, she pays me regular attention, we have great conversations, we make love a few times... then she gets completely wrapped up in her home life and I barely exist anymore. In this case it was a vacation with the H followed by moving her parents to another state. This week she found out her 20-year-old son knocked up his girlfriend. It could be a worse situation - they've been dating two years, both from families with the means and willingness to help, etc. But obviously her attention has been over there. Meanwhile apparently she and the H are thinking about buying a new home together to "downsize" as they no longer need their huge 6-bedroom place with all the acreage, etc. to maintain. Rich people problems, yo.

 

I can't really forgive how emotionally absent she's been. I told her we needed to talk. She said she knew we did. We had the following text exchange back on July 6:

 

"Me: Nothing I'm writing is coming out right - so I'll just say that I'm not trying to put a lot of pressure on the conversation. What I'm really

wondering is if we still fit, and how that looks to you. If the answer is, "I don't know," that's okay. I just want you to talk to me about it soon

so I'm not out here feeling... kinda disposable. Which I don't think is your intention but is honestly sort of how it feels over here.

 

Her: It isn't my intention to make you feel that way but nothing I can do will ever make you feel any different. I don't think I can be there

more and that's not your fault. It's the way I have chosen and what I have chosen. I care about you but that doesn't change my situation and I

don't feel like it ever will. I'm not saying that you are pressuring me or anything. But that feeling doesn't stop existing. Being there consistently

is what I should be doing, but it's not what I'm doing and not what I can see myself doing. Being with you makes me a ****ty mom and wife.

Being a better mom and wife results in me being ****ty with you. I can't seem to be able to get this right. Its not fair to you. There is a lot at

risk - your feelings and our friendship.

 

Me: I understand that being (H)'s wife and the kids' mother is a part of your identity in a way that being with me is not. I don't want you to

feel like you're ****ty at that. Or anything. All I want in the world right now is to hold you. My body aches for it. I don't know how that's ever

going to change."

 

Right. Yes. BARF at the last part, right? Why keep putting myself out there? Well, I share it with y'all because I am sure you've been in similar situations once or twice. She didn't respond to that last message until the next day, by the way, when I got the infamous, "Hi. Studying?" "Yep." "Don't want to interrupt you, just wanted to check on you."

 

Sigh. And... then days and days of silence. Followed by "Hi. How are you?" and the other minimal contact that I've written about here.

 

We haven't had a substantial conversation about the state of our relationship since that text. Which I have looked at over and over... and while at first I thought it was very clear - she's made her choice, she's chosen to be at home, invested in being a wife. But then I look at it and she never quite shuts the door, does she? So... I have no idea. She hasn't indicated to me at all in the weeks since that conversation that she wants to be anything other than my friend.

 

But y'all. It felt GOOD to laugh and joke and talk to her on the phone these last few days. Except for the part where she was telling me about getting a new house with her H. That part sucked - the reminders that she's only entrenching herself further in that life, and with this new unexpected grandchild on the way... that's where her attention will have to be.

 

I really would love to relax and smile and have a pleasant encounter with her before the Bar exam. I don't want - and don't think she wants - a Major Conversation that day. But I also don't want to spend an hour hearing about all the plans she's making that don't include me. So I'm... kinda going back and forth. What I'm confident about is that I will have my mental game right for this exam. I managed to pull off marathon study days even while falling apart every couple of hours (which is one reason I don't want to see her. She knew I was hurting and left me to hurt over here alone and now she wants to slide in at the the literal last minute like she's been Little Miss Supportive?) But then there's that dumbass inside me that knows if she gives me a little good luck kiss (fat chance, right?) I'll be even more prepared to kick ass.

 

Listen. I do understand. I was stuck on a guy, a married guy (and yes, I am married too) for so long, I get it. I could give you a list of why you need to move on or why she is using you, but what is the point. It took me 2 years to accept that he was using me. A voice on the internet won't do it.

 

Yes, I've written many text like you did about your feelings to have them not answered or answered days later with a hello. And if you ask, they make you seem crazy.

 

It's a tactic to control you.She knows. Trust me.They know what they do to us and they don't care, so it's up to US to care.

 

And no, I do not think you should see her before your test. It will not make you feel better. This is the best you will feel - right now. She will only make you feel worse. Trust me,

[freengreen]

Lostgirl is trying to help you in one way and Midnight the other way...

 

I am going with Midnight this time because its safer in an affair to assume that your AP has 'side tracked on their own wish' than to assume that they love you by all their heart.

 

While Lostgirl's advice could bring you some solace IF your AP cares as much as you expect, its a risk. Many OWs here broke NC and gave texts like 'Do you still love me' only to get replies like 'I will get back later on that'... It will KILL your soul if you see her and she only tries to placate you out of fear that you will go savage rather than she actually loves and cares about you.

 

If you want to see her ( I dont think you should), see her when you are OVER her, then you will see her for what she really is. You are still in fog, its not the right time now. Try focus on your bar exam as much.

Edited July 22, 2017 by freengreen

[MJJean]

I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but I practiced law in California for a few years. When I moved back home to Georgia, I chose to begin teaching instead and never took the exam here. Now, six years after leaving law behind, I've decided to go ahead and become licensed in GA. Oddly enough, MW was a huge factor in my decision. She was a paralegal for many years before entering education, and that was part of how we initially clicked. One of the major sources of stress in my life has been that I am burdened with law school-sized student loans on a teacher salary. She was one of my biggest cheerleaders to go ahead and get it done this summer rather than put it off further. I read into that some sort of implied promise that we'd be setting ourselves up for a future, though she never directly said that.

 

In a normal relationship thinking that your romantic partner is suggesting financial and career goals be met, debt reduced, etc. means your partner is thinking about a future with you is reasonable. The problem is you aren't in a normal relationship. You're in an affair. Interpretations are different in affairs.

 

To further complicate things, you are in an affair with a friend. This means that some things a friend would normally say or do are seen by you as having more meaning.

 

I'd like to think of myself as a semi-decent human being. You're going through some shyte and I could even go as far as to say I am a virtual buddy. If you'd told me that you had law school sized student loans, a teachers salary, and I knew you'd formerly practiced law in another state and could be licensed to practice law where you live, I'd have told you to do it and been your keyboard cheerleader while you went through the process. I wouldn't be doing it because I was planning a future with you, I'd be doing it because I am a decent human being and your buddy.

 

You gotta stop seeing signs of friendship and basic decency as more.

 

She does this periodically - things reach a point where I feel mostly safe/secure, she pays me regular attention, we have great conversations, we make love a few times... then she gets completely wrapped up in her home life and I barely exist anymore.

 

That's the push-pull. She's keeping you in your place. She has to keep you close enough that you don't leave (she'd miss her ego kibbles and escape), but not so close that you "get ideas" or take too much of her time and attention away from herself and her family/life. She may or may not be consciously aware she is doing this.

 

 

Her: It isn't my intention to make you feel that way but nothing I can do will ever make you feel any different. I don't think I can be there

more and that's not your fault. It's the way I have chosen and what I have chosen. I care about you but that doesn't change my situation and I

don't feel like it ever will. I'm not saying that you are pressuring me or anything. But that feeling doesn't stop existing. Being there consistently

is what I should be doing, but it's not what I'm doing and not what I can see myself doing. Being with you makes me a ****ty mom and wife.

Being a better mom and wife results in me being ****ty with you. I can't seem to be able to get this right. Its not fair to you. There is a lot at

risk - your feelings and our friendship.

Me: I understand that being (H)'s wife and the kids' mother is a part of your identity in a way that being with me is not. I don't want you to

feel like you're ****ty at that. Or anything. All I want in the world right now is to hold you. My body aches for it. I don't know how that's ever

going to change."

 

She didn't respond to that last message until the next day, by the way, when I got the infamous, "Hi. Studying?" "Yep." "Don't want to interrupt you, just wanted to check on you."

 

Sigh. And... then days and days of silence. Followed by "Hi. How are you?" and the other minimal contact that I've written about here.

 

She clearly states she has chosen her life with her husband. That firmly shuts the door on any possible future with you.

 

Note: Your feelings and the friendship are at risk here. She mentions nothing about her feelings or her marriage being at risk. What does that tell you?

 

The bit about wanting to hold her and your body aching? Yeah, you got too attached there and she had to back away for a few days or so. More push-pull.

 

 

We haven't had a substantial conversation about the state of our relationship since that text. Which I have looked at over and over... and while at first I thought it was very clear - she's made her choice, she's chosen to be at home, invested in being a wife. But then I look at it and she never quite shuts the door, does she? So... I have no idea. She hasn't indicated to me at all in the weeks since that conversation that she wants to be anything other than my friend.

 

As I said above, she has shut the door on a possible future with you. She left a window open so you could continue your friendship and possibly the affair...here and there...maybe...when/if she feels the need.

 

But y'all. It felt GOOD to laugh and joke and talk to her on the phone these last few days. Except for the part where she was telling me about getting a new house with her H. That part sucked - the reminders that she's only entrenching herself further in that life, and with this new unexpected grandchild on the way... that's where her attention will have to be.

 

Part of being her friend is listening to her talk about her life and family.

 

She shares her life with her husband of many years, father of her children, they're about to have their first grandchild together and they're looking to buy their downsized empty nest home in preparation for the coming years of retirement and perhaps limited energy or ability to clean and maintain a property. This is a time of many big changes and it's bound to be both sad and exciting. It's normal she'd want to talk about these things with her friend. If hearing about her life and what matters to her upsets you, what kind of friendship could you have?

 

I think you can't. Some people can be FWB's and then transition to just friends with no problem. Others can never go back. You fell in love. I don't think you can ever go back.

[BreakingWave]

Midnight, Freen, and MJJean - thank you. You have all made wonderful points. I think MJJean has really hit the nail on the head in terms of the best guess as to where MW is right now. She may have reached the "take it or leave it" point with me, or she may have reached the "I can't do this anymore" point. I don't know.

 

I want to believe she wouldn't ask to see me if she knew she was going to behave in an upsetting way. However she feels, she does know how I feel, and she isn't a cruel person - just an incredibly selfish one.

 

I still don't know what I'm going to do, and honestly half of me wouldn't be surprised if something "comes up" at the last minute and she withdraws the invitation. Wouldn't be the first time!

 

I need to work on the bit inside of me that still wants her, that still believes in spite of all the plain evidence to the contrary that she loves me enough to, if not leave and be with me full-time (I accept that won't happen) to at least be consistent in how she treats me and stop the push-pull. But it seems that's so enmeshed in how she operates that it might be asking for the impossible.

[BreakingWave]

MJJean - I've been thinking a lot about what you said. I think you asked a very good question - what kind of friend would I be if I don't want to hear about what's going on in her life?

 

(BTW this is their fourth grandchild but her first biologial; the others are from his kids from two previous marriages. She considers them *hers* as she basically raised his kids, but this one is a little different as her son is the father. MW and her H have no bio kids together.)

 

Anyhow, I think... I will never be able to just be happy for the good things in her life that have nothing to do with me. Our "friendship" as it was just doesn't exist any more. I'm in love and she is not. She's well aware of that. I don't know if you're right that she just doesn't care, but I am increasingly afraid that you are. And I see how every little thing - even her stupid FB posts that she's out dancing with him and her stepson/his wife (whom I love) just... makes me want to die in my sleep. It isn't the same as seeing any other friend out having a good time. I'll never just be able to be indifferent or wish her well.

[MJJean]

Midnight, Freen, and MJJean - thank you. You have all made wonderful points. I think MJJean has really hit the nail on the head in terms of the best guess as to where MW is right now. She may have reached the "take it or leave it" point with me, or she may have reached the "I can't do this anymore" point. I don't know.

 

Usually, the "Take it or leave it!" "I can't do this anymore!" phase is reached when the affair becomes more drama than fun for them.

 

I want to believe she wouldn't ask to see me if she knew she was going to behave in an upsetting way. However she feels, she does know how I feel, and she isn't a cruel person - just an incredibly selfish one.

 

Selfishness is cruelty. It's just a much more subtle cruelty.

 

In her mind, it's not cruel at all to talk to you about her life because she was up front the whole time about her plans and your place in her life. After all, you're friends (with benefits) and you knew what you were getting into.

 

Besides, talking to you about her life is a very easy and non-confrontational way to remind you she's married, her life is with her husband and family, and that she has no plans of changing that status.

 

I still don't know what I'm going to do, and honestly half of me wouldn't be surprised if something "comes up" at the last minute and she withdraws the invitation. Wouldn't be the first time!

 

I need to work on the bit inside of me that still wants her, that still believes in spite of all the plain evidence to the contrary that she loves me enough to, if not leave and be with me full-time (I accept that won't happen) to at least be consistent in how she treats me and stop the push-pull. But it seems that's so enmeshed in how she operates that it might be asking for the impossible.

 

She can't stop the push-pull. If she stops pushing you away, you become a problem. If she stops pulling you back in, you may move on and then where will she get her ego kibbles and extra attention?

 

 

MJJean - I've been thinking a lot about what you said. I think you asked a very good question - what kind of friend would I be if I don't want to hear about what's going on in her life?

 

(BTW this is their fourth grandchild but her first biologial; the others are from his kids from two previous marriages. She considers them *hers* as she basically raised his kids, but this one is a little different as her son is the father. MW and her H have no bio kids together.)

 

Anyhow, I think... I will never be able to just be happy for the good things in her life that have nothing to do with me. Our "friendship" as it was just doesn't exist any more. I'm in love and she is not. She's well aware of that. I don't know if you're right that she just doesn't care, but I am increasingly afraid that you are. And I see how every little thing - even her stupid FB posts that she's out dancing with him and her stepson/his wife (whom I love) just... makes me want to die in my sleep. It isn't the same as seeing any other friend out having a good time. I'll never just be able to be indifferent or wish her well.

 

It's probably not so much that she doesn't care as what is she supposed to do about it? From her point of view, she's been honest with you and you knew what you were getting into. You're a grown adult and, at the end of the day, she can't be responsible for your feelings.

 

She doesn't want to hurt you, but she can't not hurt you, either.

[BreakingWave]

So true. I've been ignoring the writing on the wall for months now because it isn't what I want to read. (And because she has weeks when she really DOES put more effort and time in - the "pull" - and I've chosen to view that as her showing what she truly wants instead of her employing a control tactic. Again, it's part of my own series of choices that I have to own.

 

Like many cheating spouses, I think she's conflict-averse. She will absolutely quarrel with H, often in front of me or other folks. But I think that's how she approaches small things that annoy her. When it comes to big, important talks, she'd prefer to just sweep thugs under the rug and hope it works out. Not how I like to operate.

 

 

Assuming she still wants ego strokes and pleasure nibbles - you should trademark that phrase - is it just a matter of wait and she'll come knowing again? Is that how it usually works, or so they prefer to let the OW/OM exhaust ourselves pursuing them until they can pretend we've worn them down and absolve themselves of blame?