My Fiancee Out of Town for Work - Her Ex Will Be There - Does It Matter?

[billybadass36]

So, where to start...where to start...

 

Okay, been here a while and I take it upon myself to dole out whatever brand of advice I can come up with, but I have a situation that's been ongoing/festering for a while, and now it's coming to a head, and I don't know if I'm making too much of it or whatever. Here goes:

 

My fiancee and I are getting married in a little under 2 months. When we first started dating she had just broken it off with a guy that she'd met through one of her employers. With this particular job, she has to spend about 3-4 long weekends in California a year for training and then she's on the road another 6-8 long weekends a year doing trade shows. She gets paid very well to do this and it's an industry that she's pretty passionate about. This group that she works with in this aspect of her employment is very "clique-ish". They're always calling each other and just random stuff like that. It's mostly women, but most of the higher-ups are men.

 

On her first trip to California for training (about a year and a half before we started dating) she met a guy there, started seeing him and broke up with her then-boyfriend so that she could date this guy she met while out at this training session. New guy lives on the east coast. They have some long distance relationship for about 14-15 months, and then it goes south, and then she starts dating me. Actually, we smooched outside a bar once while she was still dating this guy, but I didn't even know she was dating him at the time.

 

Anyway, fast forward to us dating over the past year or so. She still has maintained telephone contact with this guy she met and dated from California. They talk on the phone on average about three-four times a month (I'm guessing). She doesn't tell me about every conversation she has with him, but she doesn't really hide it either. I have told her on several occasions that I'm an insecure, jealous prick, and that it sort of pisses me off. Before we got engaged she told me that the phone calls would probably stop if we were to get engaged "out of respect". Well, that hasn't happened. They still talk on about the same level of frequency. I bring it up again and moan about it. She just sort of sits there and acts like I'm totally retarded for having a problem with this.

 

I really don't have a problem with her talking to this guy on the phone. He lives a gazillion miles away, and I'm not really threatened by him, but it just seems kind of stupid to me. I mean, I don't talk to ex-girlfriends because they're my EX-girlfriends. Whatever.

 

The problem I've got now is that we just bought a piece of really choice lakefront property together. This secondary income that she gets from this job where she travels is really vital to our financial stability right now. Since we've been dating, while she's been still doing the traveling routine with this secondary employer, she's not had to cross paths with her ex at all. Well, now, in just under two weeks, she'll be in Cali for training Sat. Sun. and Mon. with about 25 other people, and guess who's also on the list to be there that weekend? Yep, her ex-boyfriend who she is still in telephone contact with.

 

She assures me plenty that I don't have anything to worry about. The problem is that the only thing I have to do that weekend is sit around and worry about it. I highly doubt she'll put herself in a situation where any of the other coworkers of hers could start gossipping about the whole situation because it's been well-publicized that she's engaged to be married to me, and that the wedding is in September, and everyone knows she used to date this guy. I find it really hard to believe that anything would go down out there, but I'm the kind of guy that just assumes the worst, and then I stew about it all weekend, and then by the time she gets a chance to call me I'm convinced something foul is afoot and I've managed to work myself into a frenzy.

 

The things I'm worried about: When she dated him he was married. She left him after a year and a half of long distance relationship. She dumped her prior boyfriend of two years for this guy COLD when she met him. This guy's in the same field as she. She put up with a year and a half of him dragging his feet on his divorce (he was separated with retained custody of his daughter, etc.) AND delat with the long-distance-ness of it for a year and a half before calling it quits. And, finally, this guy's obviously doing SOMETHING for her or she'd just knock of the continued phone contact with him after I'd voiced my concern about it.

 

Thanks for reading. Should I (a) be worried; (b) do anything? If I was reading this and trying to give myself advice, I'd tell myself to postpone the wedding because I have "unresolved issues" with this woman. Problem is that I love her more than anything else in the world. Help is appreciated. Thanks.

[tanbark813]

I don't know if you should be worried but I can see why you would be. I would be as well if I were in your shoes. It doesn't bode well that she assured you the calls to this guy would stop once you were engaged and then never followed through. As for postponing the marriage, that's a hefty decision that only you can make, but it would suck to marry someone you didn't know you could fully trust.

 

Any chance you can go out there with her? You said yourself you have nothing to do that weekend other than worry.

[billybadass36]

My going out there is not an option. I agree that it doesn't bode well that she told me that it would stop if and when we got engaged and it didn't. Her statement that it would stop when we got engaged was couched like this, "He'll probably stop calling me when we get engaged out of respect." Made me think it was just him doing the calling. Well, it's not. I'm paying the phone bill, so I look at it.

[tanbark813]

Well that's no good. The way she phrased it not only paints the situation in such a light as to try and alleviate herself of responsibility for the communication, but it also implies a romantic interest on at least his part. She's basically admitting in an indirect way that he would have no interest in her as just friends.

 

Where in Cali is the training? Maybe I can watch her for you.

[clandestinidad]

God, that sucks. I really feel for you, and can see why youre concerned! she seems to have gone from person to person, besides the fact that she was having an affair w/ a married man! Doesnt that make you question her thoughts/morals about marriage? I mean, if she was doing that then I would think she considers it okay to have affairs. (was the guy still married or were they separated when they started their relationship?)

 

Also, do you know specifically WHY she broke it off w/ him? was it the distance or something else?

[A Fly onThe Wall]

I think that you have every right to be worried as well...

 

But I think you should do nothing and trust her..She hasn't really done anything for you to have lost trust in her yet, has she ?

 

Other than the not stopping of phone calls after your engagment.. But that isn't a trust issue as of yet.

 

But be leary of any changes in her when she comes back.. Try not to show any jealousy on the phone to her when she is in Cali. as you don't want to give her a reason to do anything

[Bryanp]

Sorry but I see this as a huge red flag. She dumped her old boyfriend to be with this married guy for over a year and a half but he will not leave his wife. They continue to talk at least 4 times a month even though you are engaged. She tells you she will stop if you become engaged and she does not. Clearly she is still hung up on this guy. She is keeping him emotionally in the bullpen. I guarantee you down the line when the both of you get in a big fight (and you will) guess who she will turn to for support.

 

I am sorry but this is bull****. You do not continue contact with your old girlfriends. She is still hot for this guy. She would have married him if he was not married. She sold out her morals to be with this other guy who was married. The fact that she refuses to cut contact is a very bad sign. I don't have a clue what will happen but I have a hunch down the road something bad will happen. If she does not have enought respect to cut the contact now when you are engaged then she is sending you a clear message that she still wants this Other Guy in her life now or down the road. I suggest that you should rethink your engagement. This is such an obvious negative sign. She still loves the guy and would have married him.

She needs to cut the relationship. You would be a fool to marry her and allow her to continue this deep disrespect to you and your relationship. It is very bad news!

[Cecelius]

Most people will say you shouldn't have gotten involved with a girl still connected loosely to an ex via work

 

Most people would say that there is no reason on the planet for your g/f to talk to the guy 2-4 times a month especially if its not work related.

 

Women can have male friends, just not male friends whose rods they used to polish...

 

Lastly, isn't this the same girl you had a lengthy issue with before about some scandalous behavior?

 

Probably nothing will happen, but pay attention to the fact that this girl's history causes you to feel this way. That history won't go away. She may do fine at this, but it will keep happening. Moreover, while the money is fine, this is your future wife: isn't your pride more important than a little extra cash? She can end this controversy by moving on to something else.

[westernxer]

Originally posted by billybadass36

If I was reading this and trying to give myself advice, I'd tell myself to postpone the wedding because I have "unresolved issues" with this woman.

 

You don't have unresolved issues, she does.

 

Postpone the wedding.

 

 

[Debster]

On her first trip to California for training (about a year and a half before we started dating) she met a guy there, started seeing him and broke up with her then-boyfriend so that she could date this guy she met while out at this training session. New guy lives on the east coast. They have some long distance relationship for about 14-15 months, and then it goes south, and then she starts dating me. Actually, we smooched outside a bar once while she was still dating this guy, but I didn't even know she was dating him at the time.

 

It appears as though your fiance has a history of lining up the next guy before she dumps the current one. IMO That does not allow her time to deal with the hurt, get past it and start a new relationship without baggage. It also means that she doesn't devote 100% of her time/effort to her current relationship and working out issues. Instead, she cheats with the next guy.

 

My going out there is not an option. I agree that it doesn't bode well that she told me that it would stop if and when we got engaged and it didn't. Her statement that it would stop when we got engaged was couched like this, "He'll probably stop calling me when we get engaged out of respect." Made me think it was just him doing the calling. Well, it's not. I'm paying the phone bill, so I look at it.

 

I used to talk (max 2-3 times a year) to an exboyfriend of mine who was my only friend I kept in touch with from high school. He became like my brother. My husband didn't have an issue with it. He was even invited to our wedding (after I cleared it with my husband). If my husband didn't want the contact or him to be invited to our wedding, he wouldn't have been. I think my ex's wife didn't like us keeping in touch because since they got married, we lost all contact. He respected his wives feelings. I respect that. The fact that your fiance isn't respecting your feelings speaks volumes. Be careful. If she is already neglecting how you feel NOW before you are married, how will it be years afterwards when you have all the stressors of life thrown at you?

 

The things I'm worried about: When she dated him he was married. She left him after a year and a half of long distance relationship. She dumped her prior boyfriend of two years for this guy COLD when she met him. This guy's in the same field as she. She put up with a year and a half of him dragging his feet on his divorce (he was separated with retained custody of his daughter, etc.) AND delat with the long-distance-ness of it for a year and a half before calling it quits. And, finally, this guy's obviously doing SOMETHING for her or she'd just knock of the continued phone contact with him after I'd voiced my concern about it.

 

This IMO shows a complete lack of respect for commitment and marriage. Not only for the man's marriage, but for the relationship she had with her prior boyfriend, and now her neglecting your feelings.

 

I feel for you. I know you love her and want to marry her. However, IMO you need to think long and hard about it.

 

Good luck.

[billybadass36]

Thanks, guys, for the input. A couple things I need to straighten out that I think got lost in my incoherent post:

 

She met this guy. They hit it off. She broke up with her boyfriend at the time to pursue this guy. This guy didn't inform her that he was married until he had his hooks sufficiently into her, and by that time, of course, she was into him. He WAS actually separated but hadn't filed the actual divorce papers yet. Anyway, after she finally breaks it off with the guy for good, and after she'd been dating me for a month or so, he called (evidently having heard through the grapevine that she had a new boyfriend), and he was distraught and told her that he couldn't stand the thought of her F***ing someone else. That was all. He then immediately filed for his divorce, but she's stayed with me which is good, right? He begged and pleaded (I assume because I wasn't privy to the conversations) and asked if he got divorced if she'd go back to him, etc. Anyway, this guy just sucks. He's a hair stylist. I'm a lawyer. I'm a f=ing athletic, good looking guy. He's almost 40. I'm the same age as my fiancee (almost 30). On paper, I don't have a thing to worry about, but this pisses me off so god damn much. I'm tired of talking about it because she doesn't listen and I'm starting to think I'm obsessing on this whole deal. It's now more of an issue of "dammit, why the hell don't you just stop talking to the guy for the simple fact that it's driving me f***ing nuts?!" Oh well. Screw it. I have no idea what to do about this. Oh, and Cecelius, this is the same woman. I need my head examined, I know.

 

Tan - she's going to be in Irvine. I think that's a hike for you. Well, I think I'm done for tonight. Thanks all for the input - especially for reassuring me that I'm not out to lunch on this thing.

[A Fly onThe Wall]

Originally posted by billybadass36

It's now more of an issue of "dammit, why the hell don't you just stop talking to the guy for the simple fact that it's driving me f***ing nuts?!"

 

The answer to that is easy... She has feelings for him and he has feelings for her.. Simple really..

 

You need to explain to her that the fact that she still has feelings for him is affecting your relationship with her and she needs to make a clean break with him and NEVER talk to him again..

 

I would think something different if she has known the guy her whole life and grew up with him..

 

Remember if it is a problem for you then it should be a problem for her.. Reverse the roles..

[westernxer]

Originally posted by billybadass36

Tan - she's going to be in Irvine. I think that's a hike for you.

 

Not for me...

[Cecelius]

He was cheating on his wife, on the way out, but nevertheless cheating?

 

Then he shows her how imbalanced he is by actually tying his divorce to being with her?

 

He has shown extremely poor character. By rights, she should have judged him unworthy of being around simply because he's a sleaze.

 

And yet she still talks to him. Her emotional need/interest in keeping some ties to a sleaze-bag like this are SO strong that she can overlook the fact that she SHOULD be embarrassed for having ever been involved with him (most normal women would have told him to hit the road permanently when they found out about the marriage).

 

You so very much need to put the brakes on the wedding. Breaking up with a g/f because of some shady stuff is one thing, and the world (her folks, your folks, friends, whatever) takes it in stride. When you are married there is HUGE pressure for you to just get over it.

 

When you have red flags like this, it makes no sense to get married till you've fixed the situation.

[clandestinidad]

so, i'm curious what ever happened with this situation???

[westernxer]

Probably nothing (on her part, to say the least).

[billybadass36]

Well, she's out there in Irvine with her 30-40 coworkers doing this update training. She brought with her lots of photographs of the property we just bought, and she's rooming with a woman from Atlanta. They keep in touch all the time. All these people do. It's like a stupid little club this outfit she works for. Anyway, I drop her off at the airport, I told her that I'd appreciate it if she kept me reasonably informed as to what she's doing out there. She calls me when she's in the shuttle from LAX to Irvine (about an hour ride). This is on Sat.

 

She gets to the hotel around 7pm local time and meets up with some of her colleagues who she hasn't seen in forever, and she says it's "like a class reunion", and every 30 minutes or so, another arrival shows up so they catch up in the hotel bar, etc...no big deal. She starts showing pictures of me and of the property to all her coworkers (everyone knows she's engaged, and two other gals that are there are getting married in a month or so). There are only a handful of people there that know that she used to date this one guy who's there, and this is the first training thing that he's attended with her since they broke up nearly 2 years ago. Those that know about the situation were like "isn't it weird" or "don't you feel awkward" or "does your fiance' know about so and so"? She tells me that she handled it fine, and that all she did was give the guy a superficial "hello" hug and they engaged in small-talk for a while, and then went their separate ways.

 

It's fairly obvious that everyone there that knows about the situation has their eyeballs on this guy. In January the company instituted a fairly comprehensive "code of conduct" that prohibits dating of coworkers, vendors, distributors, etc. I've met a couple of my fiancee's bosses, and they seem cool enough (for the hair industry anyway which is really a scene that I wouldn't do well in...fashionistas and self-important nancy-boys), and I'm glad they've met with me and gotten along with me because I seem to think that they've at least got a face and a personality to put with this fiance' (me) that's back in Michigan.

 

Anyway, after I got off the phone with her when she was on the shuttle, I asked her to call me when she was turning in for the night. She asked if I was sure b/c they probably wouldn't be going to bed until midnight local at the earliest, which puts it b/w 3 and 4am Eastern. I say, yeah, just to make me at ease. I fell asleep at like 1am and woke up at 4am with no voice mail and no missed calls, so I went to work tearing out drywall in the bathroom (big huge mess caused by a leak in the roof that I'm repairing). It's a frigging mess, and I'm hungover and pissed that my fiancee won't call me, and I'm even more pissed because I can't sleep. So I end up patching the ceiling (really a great f-ing job for a non-mechanical-type atty-boy) and sitting down to check my email at like 10am and she calls. I didn't pick up because I knew I'd be pissed off and nothing productive would come out of it. I'm still pissed off when I think about her not calling me a mere 5 hours after she'd told me she would.

 

Anyway, I finally talk to her when she's on her lunch break, and I tell her what I've been up to and explain to her that I'm f*ing pissed off she didn't call me when she said she would, but she explained to me that everytime she went to call me, someone else trickled into the hotel from the airport, and it was like class reunion all over again. I'm like whatever. All I wanted was a 10 second, "Hey, I'm going to bed in my own room with M-K (her roommate out there). I know you're paranoid about E (ex-bf) being here, so here's my 10 second voicemail to reassure you that I'm not up in his room banging him."

 

So, anyway, she was in training all day yesterday, and called me when she was done. She's been paired up with this guy that's married and who's worked with her before on lots of occaisions. This guy she's paired up with is really a nice guy whom I've met and he really doesn't like her ex-bf, so that's good from my perspective. Anyway, she had about 3-4 glasses of wine after dinner and was little tippy when she called me at like 11pm local, and she was going to bed. I said goodnight and then went to sleep.

 

She just called me about 60 mins ago. She was just getting up and getting ready for day 2 of this training. They go till 3pm local time, do lunch and then everyone heads out of town. Her flight doesn't leave until 10:30pm, so she's pissed about that, but I'm not really too concerned about it.

 

My conclusions are that (a) I'm keeping as cool a head as I can all things considered; (b) I've got an ass-load of work sitting on my desk that has to be done today; © I just want to grab her and shake the $hit out her and ask her why the f**k she has to subject me to this $hit; and (d) I'm about 99.7% certain nothing untoward is going on, mostly because there's a bunch of people there that are probably keeping an eye on the situation.

 

I've come to the realization that I'm not going to spend the rest of my adult life worrying about this. I'm pissed off that she makes me feel this uncertainty, this anxiety. I don't think anything "happened" or is "happenning", but I think the casual disregard for my feelings on this situation is going to stop or I'm not marrying this woman. Period. For crying out loud, I've been moaning to her about this guy for a year now, and she's finally face to face with the guy and she doesn't call me when she turns in for the night and she doesn't have any good reason. The burden's on her, not me, to convince me that I don't have anything to worry about. She's the one that continues to put herself in this situation, not me. She's the one that chose to carry on an affair with a coworker and to continue working for that company after the affair went south. She's the one that's chosen to marry me yet doesn't give two $hits about my feelings on the situation. The more I try to take a detached look at the situation, the more I see that this is bull$hit any way you look at it. It's not that anything is going on, but I feel like I deserve "full disclosure" at the very least. So, there's your update folks. I'm pissed and tired and I've got an elephant's ass load of work that's got to be done in 4 hours.

[A Fly onThe Wall]

You need to sit down and cool your jets.. She will smell your fear a mile away..

 

Trust her.. If don't you might push her right into his arms...

 

Something tells me that you are going to create a mountain out of a molehill with this.. And you may not be able to recover

 

RELAX and give her some space and quit crowding her

[Cecelius]

I think that you have a problem in that you are set to marry this girl, and you feel that her past (the affair with this guy) plus actions she's taken during your relationship (if I am remembering the right story) make her untrustworthy. She on the other hand feels that she is just doing what she is doing-- it is unlikely that she feels she is a shady as you feel she is.

 

I think you have a problem that you may want to examine before getting married.

[billybadass36]

Isn't this the kind of story that repeatedly shows up in the infidelity thread, though? "Opportunity breeds infidelity" is the theme over there. Does that make me hyper-vigilant in this situation? Am I overreacting like AFOTW suggests? Do I chill out? Is it me or is it her? Is it just both of us? Am I retarded for marrying this woman?

 

I think part of the problem is that I know nothing's going on, yet I'm obsessing on the fact that she didn't call me Sat. night. Am I obsessing about it b/c I should be pissed about it, or am I obsessing about it because I'm convinced that "I'm right" and "I deserved a phone call" and "She's disrespecting me by not calling me"??? Who the hell knows. I do know I'm going to get fricking sued for malpractice if I don't get this brief done.

[Cecelius]

I'm not saying you have a mental problem or that its on one side -- you may decide you'd prefer to calm down about this, and it is true that no matter how scandalous a woman is or not, acting in any way jealous, controlling or angry about these things will cause them to like you less.

 

I'm saying she may be the problem -- her past (and if I recall correctly, this is the same girl who was being kissed by the married friends of hers a while back, and wasn't there some other semi-scandalous matter about a bar or someting?). She is who she is, and she knows you love her. To the extent that she happens to get into these situations, she doesn't see it as wrong -- because she assumes you will still be there when she's out of it. She knows she doesn't need to be on her best behavior.

 

I really think you need to get this figured out before you get married. I have heard more than one woman say "well, you knew that about me before we got married..."

[upsetnhurt]

Billy,

 

How soon are you getting married? Even if she is not doing anything wrong.....its the lack of understanding and RESPECT that I think is the core of the problem. You are in no means at fault for feeling this way as her past actions and unfortunately current actions push you into that direction. You need to digest all of this and I suggest seeing a therapist to talk this out........your biggest mistake will be to MARRY someone if you in fact feel this way cause trust me it will only get worse.

[westernxer]

Originally posted by Cecelius

To the extent that she happens to get into these situations, she doesn't see it as wrong -- because she assumes you will still be there when she's out of it. She knows she doesn't need to be on her best behavior.

 

That's an assumption... doesn't mean you're wrong, but it doesn't mean it's true.

 

[amerikajin]

I think part of the problem is that I know nothing's going on, yet I'm obsessing on the fact that she didn't call me Sat. night

 

Billy, I know things like buying property together and arranging a wedding complicate matters, but it really does seem like you've got some s*** to resolve before you get married.

 

Your problem is that you are getting married to someone you don't entirely trust. I don't know whether she's to blame or whether you're overreacting; that's something you have to figure out for yourself. But I know one thing: it's not healthy to enter into a permanent relationship with so much unease. Marriage is difficult no matter who your partner is, no matter what the circumstances are - there's never a perfect union. But you can't have anything without trust. It's not good for you, and honestly, it's not good for her - she'll resent you if you can't trust her.

[Cecelius]

Originally posted by westernxer

That's an assumption... doesn't mean you're wrong, but it doesn't mean it's true.

 

I agree -- I just happen to have dated a girl who was a little like this. Not a bad girlfriend, but her interest in getting attention, etc., caused her to get into situations that more typical women did not (ie, if someone at a party was getting the "unwanted" kiss from the drunk guy, it was her). She was used to the idea of her b/f getting "mad" about it but that was just more attention (ie, more evidence that she mattered in the world) and generally she would chalk it up to jealousy.

 

I made progress with her when I calmly explained what was disrespectful and would not occur again if she wanted me to be around, and that the more shady things that occur, the more I would end up with no opinion of her at all (meaning, not even worth thinking about).

 

Only billy can say for sure. I do know at this point that the more ticked off he gets about these things, the more "wrong" things she can do and blame it on him for overreacting. This particular incident really isn't bad -- it has a piece of her past in it that she can't really help and other than that, she just neglected to call him. The fact is though that its her course of conduct AND billy's interest in it that makes him predisposed to mistrust her.