Can an adult partner be Punished ?

[Phoenician]

Maybe I am just ranting here , because LS is only place where I can express my self ; I am nowadays in a terrible state ; I am depressed.

 

I know that a lot of ppl blame me for staying in such a marriage ;

However , I try , an try and Try to make her happy , I am trying to make my kids reach a point where they are immune a bit from the ugly relatioship between me and my wife ; the girls are now old enough and they are immune , I still have to work on the 8 year old prince .

 

the house is not suffering from trauma , it's only me and my wife who are suffering ; I feel pitty for her , because she won't recognize the blessing we have from God except when she looses it .

 

we have assets , we have great jobs in terms of returns , we have great kids , they are brilliant in schools and socially .

 

yet , the insecurity of my wife and her laziness and selfishness is making her blind .

 

 

I am not perfect , I do a lot of mistakes ; but I am confident to say I am normal , I laugh , cry , react and appologize , I sacrifice ,I love to give .

 

my needs are simple , respect , feeling desired, appreciation .

 

I am easily satisfied , like if my wife just said "sorry I will try to make sure this never happens again" (The piano,the car , etc ) , I will be very satisfied.

 

 

But now I am more confident that nothing will make an adult change if their ego and selfishness disease infected him/her ; like a cancer.

 

one day , when my kids are immune enough , I will just leave , not a single word...

Edited June 1, 2017 by Phoenician

[basil67]

Basil , let me ask you one thing ,

 

suppose you work 6 hours aday, your husband work 12-13 ;with 3 kids on board ; your H does 70-80% of services ; yet you nag about the 20%.

 

your Husband makes more efforts and get you a helper of your choice who does everything at home ( cleaning , cooking , everything .)

 

 

I can't answer what I would do in this situation because the whole scenario wouldn't happen here.

 

First of all, if I was as lazy as you describe your wife from the start, he would not have settled down with me. He would have found a woman who pulls her weight.

 

However, if I stopped doing my share (I am a stay at home mum, so housework is my job), my husband would not do the majority of housework for me. And he most certainly would not reward my laziness with a housekeeper. Instead, he would let me suffer the consequences of having no clean clothes, a dirty house and no cooked meals. I would eventually get tired of this situation and start cleaning. Or, I may find myself without a husband.

 

So, in short, I wouldn't have a housekeeper. But if I did have a housekeeper, I would expect her to know how to clean. And I would expect her to be able to work in my absence. So, if they could not clean properly, I would terminate their job and find someone who can clean.

[BaileyB]

I can't answer what I would do in this situation because the whole scenario wouldn't happen here.

 

First of all, if I was as lazy as you describe your wife from the start, he would not have settled down with me. He would have found a woman who pulls her weight.

 

However, if I stopped doing my share (I am a stay at home mum, so housework is my job), my husband would not do the majority of housework for me. And he most certainly would not reward my laziness with a housekeeper. Instead, he would let me suffer the consequences of having no clean clothes, a dirty house and no cooked meals. I would eventually get tired of this situation and start cleaning. Or, I may find myself without a husband.

 

So, in short, I wouldn't have a housekeeper. But if I did have a housekeeper, I would expect her to know how to clean. And I would expect her to be able to work in my absence. So, if they could not clean properly, I would terminate their job and find someone who can clean.

 

This is why I would respectfully suggest, that you have inadvertently created this problem. You have enabled your wife to behave this way... And now, it is very hard to change the situation, because the roles and patterns have been established.

 

And if you think we are wrong, I will say that this is exactly why my boyfriend left his first wife. She had a child and quit her job. She also stopped cleaning or caring for the home, the sex left the marriage, etc... He felt like he was carrying the burden of the home - financially, cooking, cleaning, etc... and after several years of trying to encourage her to participate and do what she should do for their family, they divorced. That was the consequence of her decisions, her failure to be a partner in the marriage.

Edited June 1, 2017 by BaileyB

[Phoenician]

This is why I would respectfully suggest, that you have inadvertently created this problem. You have enabled your wife to behave this way... And now, it is very hard to change the situation, because the roles and patterns have been established.

 

And if you think we are wrong, I will say that this is exactly why my boyfriend left his first wife. She had a child and quit her job. She also stopped cleaning or caring for the home, the sex left the marriage, etc... He felt like he was carrying the burden of the home - financially, cooking, cleaning, etc... and after several years of trying to encourage her to participate and do what she should do for their family, they divorced. That was the consequence of her decisions, her failure to be a partner in the marriage.

 

i agree with you that I am also responsible of creating the problem , at the begining I should have made a stand , either she accept or leave , now after all this it is very hard to leave .

 

the remaining part is not accurate ; your friend advised/ forced his wife to stay home ; I advised her to work as part time and I hired a helper tyo assist her in everything ; so where do u see similarities ?

[BaileyB]

i agree with you that I am also responsible of creating the problem , at the begining I should have made a stand , either she accept or leave , now after all this it is very hard to leave .

 

the remaining part is not accurate ; your friend advised/ forced his wife to stay home ; I advised her to work as part time and I hired a helper tyo assist her in everything ; so where do u see similarities ?

 

No, he did not not advise or force her to stay home. He expected her to work and contribute to the family - financially, and also with the care of the home and their child. He divorced her because she failed to do that, she failed to be a partner in the marriage.

 

Had she decided to stay at home with their child, gone back to work, or worked part-time, he would not have rewarded her with a housekeeper. That is for sure. But to be fair, I think that is a cultural difference. Housekeepers are not common here.

 

I just wanted to give you an example to show you that what basil said is true. A marriage is a partnership. If one partner fails to contribute to the partnership, eventually the consequence is divorce.

 

Your wife is working and contributing to the financial well being of the relationship. You haven't spoken about her skills as a mother, but I would assume that she has been a good mother. You need to decide if her lack of housekeeping skills are something you can accept, or not. It sounds like you have tried to ask her to change and do things differently, and it hasn't worked. There is not much more that you can do, except fire the housekeeper and require your wife and children to contribute to the care of the home. But, that will likely not be a popular decision after this situation a has gone on for so long...

[Cephalopod]

You cannot punish your spouse. I mean...really...how the hell would you evben go about "punishing" another adult?

 

All you can do is set your personal boundaries and stick to them. You cannot control your SO. The only thing you can control is your reaction to what s/he does. If your SO's actions culminate to a point to where you are being abused or violated, then all you can do is determine what you will do with yourself in response to such abuse.

 

Those with self esteem will refuse to put up with such nonsense, and take appropriate measures to distance themselves from that abuse in any way possible: including emotional, financial and geographical separation if necessary.

[NuevoYorko]

The amount of blame, disrespect and passive aggressive behavior you heap on your wife and your marriage would effectively kill off the libido of a verifiable sex fiend. Reading your threads, I can't imagine why she would do anything other than take care of herself. Stop blaming your wife for the abysmal state of your marriage.

[Phoenician]

The amount of blame, disrespect and passive aggressive behavior you heap on your wife and your marriage would effectively kill off the libido of a verifiable sex fiend. Reading your threads, I can't imagine why she would do anything other than take care of herself. Stop blaming your wife for the abysmal state of your marriage.

 

thanks for your opinion , however it is biased .

 

you mix topics on purpose in an irrational way as u do a lot of time to proove one thing , your contribution is nothing but toxic .

 

 

coming to LS and addressing my issues asserts only one thing ,

I am desperate and need help , and thats many other positive ppl are trying to do : help me , while you just spread the negative spirit around .

 

thanks for your advise ,

[Phoenician]

No, he did not not advise or force her to stay home. He expected her to work and contribute to the family - financially, and also with the care of the home and their child. He divorced her because she failed to do that, she failed to be a partner in the marriage.

 

Had she decided to stay at home with their child, gone back to work, or worked part-time, he would not have rewarded her with a housekeeper. That is for sure. But to be fair, I think that is a cultural difference. Housekeepers are not common here.

 

I just wanted to give you an example to show you that what basil said is true. A marriage is a partnership. If one partner fails to contribute to the partnership, eventually the consequence is divorce.

 

Your wife is working and contributing to the financial well being of the relationship. You haven't spoken about her skills as a mother, but I would assume that she has been a good mother. You need to decide if her lack of housekeeping skills are something you can accept, or not. It sounds like you have tried to ask her to change and do things differently, and it hasn't worked. There is not much more that you can do, except fire the housekeeper and require your wife and children to contribute to the care of the home. But, that will likely not be a popular decision after this situation a has gone on for so long...

 

 

-She is working because she wants to work , and I am proud of her .

Financial she doesn't contribute to house , she takes the money for herself and I don't ask her since years how she spend it .(she earns around 2k per month while I earn around 6-7K ).

 

as for the other item ,we tried it many times before it failed ; a sample is every year in AUgust where they are obliged to do it (not having a helper);

The stress level is tremendous ( I am not picky , but if I just ask about the location of an item she will explode),

[Phoenician]

The amount of blame, disrespect and passive aggressive behavior you heap on your wife and your marriage would effectively kill off the libido of a verifiable sex fiend. Reading your threads, I can't imagine why she would do anything other than take care of herself. Stop blaming your wife for the abysmal state of your marriage.

 

and Nuevo , one more thing , she was resting for more than 15 years ,

I used t treat her like a queen ,

never disrespected her ,

helped her in everything ,

because I loved her , wanted her to be happy and confortable .

yes , i have lot of disrespect now .

so before you start throwing your stones just try to be in my place , you would freak and escape and leave three kids for their destiny .

[Phoenician]

You cannot punish your spouse. I mean...really...how the hell would you evben go about "punishing" another adult?

 

All you can do is set your personal boundaries and stick to them. You cannot control your SO. The only thing you can control is your reaction to what s/he does. If your SO's actions culminate to a point to where you are being abused or violated, then all you can do is determine what you will do with yourself in response to such abuse.

 

Those with self esteem will refuse to put up with such nonsense, and take appropriate measures to distance themselves from that abuse in any way possible: including emotional, financial and geographical separation if necessary.

 

Cephal, can you please tell me how should i respond on disputes such the car issue ?

 

what would u do in such a case ?

[Cephalopod]

Cephal, can you please tell me how should i respond on disputes such the car issue ?

 

what would u do in such a case ?

 

You tell her that you have many requirements for marriage that she is not meeting. Sex, financial teamwork, household teamwork and equitable sharing of life expenses. According to you she has failed on all accounts.

 

She has failed in all the basic requirements of being a married person and has shown you that she cannot be responsible to be a team-player in a marriage.

 

If I were you I would tell her you are getting ready to fire her from her position as wife. Then I would visit a lawyer to find out how to make that happen.

[basil67]

as for the other item ,we tried it many times before it failed ; a sample is every year in AUgust where they are obliged to do it (not having a helper);

The stress level is tremendous ( I am not picky , but if I just ask about the location of an item she will explode),

 

So LET IT FAIL. Let it continuously fail. Let them suffer the consequences of being lazy. When they are tired of having no food and no clean clothes, they will change.

 

And most mothers can totally relate to wanting to explode when asked about the location of an item. There are even jokes about this "If mum can't find it, then it's really lost" Just for once, I would like my family to look in more than once place before asking "where is ......?"

Edited June 1, 2017 by basil67

[basil67]

for 18 years , tried and tried and tried to treat her like a queen,

 

And now she is acting like a queen. Do you not see the link between how you've treated her and how she's acting?

[Mrs. John Adams]

You understand that if things bothered her....she would do something about it. It doesn't. It bothers you.

 

My daughter knew that of she let things go long enough...i would do it for her. and she was right. It drove me crazy...it didn't bother her at all.

 

Your wife knows that if she waits long enough...you will take care of it. Now..I am NOT saying it will be easy to do...because i ALWAYS caved. But if you can indeed leave things alone...dont save her...dont do it for her....dont help her...

 

she may eventually take the hint. and if all else fails....pick your battles. Discuss with her the things that are most important to you. Is a loving kind relationship more iportant than a clean house for example? or is ironing your own shirts more important ?

 

Do the things that are most important....and let the rest go. She is NOT going to change. Love her for who she is....or get out...or stop complaining.

 

Negativity breeds negativity.

 

Tell me the things she does right. What are the good things about your wife. Why do you love her?

Edited June 1, 2017 by Mrs. John Adams

[Phoenician]

And now she is acting like a queen. Do you not see the link between how you've treated her and how she's acting?

 

Basil ,

when we married and respect vows , we try again and again to make our partner happy .

 

for more than fiften years I was trying to please her , because I loved her .

 

I expected it one day she will understand that I am doing all this for her .

 

In recent years , I tried to make it clear through gradually making her take her responsibilities ; unfortunately she does not want to take any ; and the moment I started to minimize my role in her responsibilities she started to hate me more .

 

If it is the partner fault to help as much as he can which i did over the years is a mistake ; what does vows really mean ?

[mercy]

Don't correct or punish me as a child because one day I will go up and as children do, they leave.

[Phoenician]

You understand that if things bothered her....she would do something about it. It doesn't. It bothers you.

 

My daughter knew that of she let things go long enough...i would do it for her. and she was right. It drove me crazy...it didn't bother her at all.

 

Your wife knows that if she waits long enough...you will take care of it. Now..I am NOT saying it will be easy to do...because i ALWAYS caved. But if you can indeed leave things alone...dont save her...dont do it for her....dont help her...

 

she may eventually take the hint. and if all else fails....pick your battles. Discuss with her the things that are most important to you. Is a loving kind relationship more iportant than a clean house for example? or is ironing your own shirts more important ?

 

Do the things that are most important....and let the rest go. She is NOT going to change. Love her for who she is....or get out...or stop complaining.

 

Negativity breeds negativity.

 

Tell me the things she does right. What are the good things about your wife. Why do you love her?

 

I totally agree with you of what you are saying ,

 

unfortunately , I am unable to get out for genuine reasons , the most important is that my kids needs me ,

 

stop complaining ?

 

-LS is the only place I am complaining about it , do you want me to be deprived also from this ?

 

I am depressed , caving in , and feeling so bad ,

 

the only reason I am still alive is because if I don't my kids will suffer .

 

I loved her because at the time we got married she was very nice ,

she is great woman , she is faithful , she has a good heart , she is smart educated , someone I am proud to be with in society .

 

she is by my side when I am in trouble , as long as she doesn't take responsibility .

 

she was a great wife until she got the first child , she changed completly since then , because having a child is a responsibility .

 

now I don't hate her , I just feel pitty for her , she can be my everything if she just wake up .

 

 

I admit that I am not perfect , I makes mistakes , I laugh , I cry , I might loose my temper ( rarely); but I am a good hearted man , I never insulted her in front of others , I never physically or emotionally abused her ,I am a good father , gives the kids and wife a proirity on my needs .

 

speaking of my betrayal , I never slept with that woman ,

I left the OW after apologizing to her , and flew back to my wife , telling her that I made a big mistake ,and I am sorry .

 

my attempt for betrayal came after a long period of emotional abuse ,deprivation , and resentment .

 

Nothing changed , she remained the same person ,the same person who will not sacrifice anything for her husband , for her children .

 

I am nagging her because I don't want to explode and leave my family .

 

If I do , I will loose them all because I gave her the house long back , and my kids and her will stay in.

 

my income which good relatively is covering all their needs , their education , and bills.

 

I am not looking for a magic solution,

 

all what I am looking for here is to survive the next period , until at least my eldest graduate , my son becomes more immune , and the other girl would go to university .

 

 

thanks for listening ...

 

thanks for those who tried to help even if they stand against my opinion .

 

bye

[basil67]

Basil ,

when we married and respect vows , we try again and again to make our partner happy .

 

for more than fiften years I was trying to please her , because I loved her .

 

I expected it one day she will understand that I am doing all this for her .

 

In recent years , I tried to make it clear through gradually making her take her responsibilities ; unfortunately she does not want to take any ; and the moment I started to minimize my role in her responsibilities she started to hate me more .

 

If it is the partner fault to help as much as he can which i did over the years is a mistake ; what does vows really mean ?

 

You probably have an idea where you treat her as a Queen and she would treat you as a King. But Kings and Queens are on a similar footing and therefore treat each other pretty much as equals. A King doesn't treat his wife as a Queen, he treats her as a wife and his equal.

 

Those who treat a Queen like a Queen are below her in hierarchy. A queen gets treated well by those below her whether she deserves it or not. She get respected even if she behaves in a disrespectful manner. She reins over those around her, putting her own needs first. By getting her a housekeeper when she's lazy, you behave more like her servant than her husband.

 

I think that bowing down to a partner and putting all their needs first has no place in a good marriage. To me, marriage is about showing love and respect and doing nice things for each other - but it's also about being equals. It's about teamwork. Relationships should not have the unbalance of a Queen with her servant.

[Phoenician]

You probably have an idea where you treat her as a Queen and she would treat you as a King. But Kings and Queens are on a similar footing and therefore treat each other pretty much as equals. A King doesn't treat his wife as a Queen, he treats her as a wife and his equal.

 

Those who treat a Queen like a Queen are below her in hierarchy. A queen gets treated well by those below her whether she deserves it or not. She get respected even if she behaves in a disrespectful manner. She reins over those around her, putting her own needs first. By getting her a housekeeper when she's lazy, you behave more like her servant than her husband.

 

I think that bowing down to a partner and putting all their needs first has no place in a good marriage. To me, marriage is about showing love and respect and doing nice things for each other - but it's also about being equals. It's about teamwork. Relationships should not have the unbalance of a Queen with her servant.

 

Unfortunately you are right in every word you said ,

 

3 years back I insisted for one year not to have a houskeeper , and tried agin and again to make the home run smoothly , by doing 50-60% of the work ; she ended up fighting with the kids while delegating more than 40% of her responsibilities.

 

the thing ended by her leaving the house to her parents , not even contacting the kids for few days ;

 

I wrote her a message which i still have :

 

"I am really sad how easy it was for you to leave the house , just because you don't want to put more efforts towards responsibilities at home and me , you just escaped.

 

You know that I love you and I love my family ; however I will not come to pick you up ; you have 24 hours to come back home , otherwise things will go legal .

"

she came back and the cycle begun again .

[Phoenician]

Now it is clear that I failed in changing her ; she is more powerfull in this area than me , has the ability to switch off the emotional switch and wipe out empathy toward me as well as our children .

 

 

The weired thing is that she claim that my self esteem and strong personaility are suppressing her!

Edited June 2, 2017 by Phoenician

[basil67]

Unfortunately you are right in every word you said ,

3 years back I insisted for one year not to have a houskeeper , and tried agin and again to make the home run smoothly , by doing 50-60% of the work ; she ended up fighting with the kids while delegating more than 40% of her responsibilities.

 

Assuming you were working longer hours than her, you should not have been doing her share. You've removed consequences for her choices.

 

the thing ended by her leaving the house to her parents , not even contacting the kids for few days ;

 

I wrote her a message which i still have :

 

"I am really sad how easy it was for you to leave the house , just because you don't want to put more efforts towards responsibilities at home and me , you just escaped.

 

You know that I love you and I love my family ; however I will not come to pick you up ; you have 24 hours to come back home , otherwise things will go legal .

"

she came back and the cycle begun again .

 

You tackled this wrong. When she left, you should have said that you will only accept a wife who will pull her weight. Told her that will like to continue the marriage, but only if she puts in effort with the house and children.

 

Instead, you gave her all the power. You removed her consequences.

[basil67]

Now it is clear that I failed in changing her ; she is more powerfull in this area than me , has the ability to switch off the emotional switch and wipe out empathy toward me as well as our children .

 

 

The weired thing is that she claim that my self esteem and strong personaility are suppressing her!

 

To be fair, you did write earlier that a wife should obey her husband. To a western point of view, this IS domineering and oppressive.

 

I suspect that rather than treating each other as equals and working together, the two of you have a terrific power struggle going on. You want her to obey you and she wants to be treated as a Queen. Both of you want to have an upper hand. But only one person can have an upper hand and at present, it's her.

 

Edited to add: It was foolish of you to choose her knowing that she was lazy and selfish and hope or expect to change her. We CANNOT change another person. This part of the problem is very much your own doing. You must accept responsibility for making a bad choice of wife.

Edited June 2, 2017 by basil67

[Phoenician]

Assuming you were working longer hours than her, you should not have been doing her share. You've removed consequences for her choices.

 

 

 

You tackled this wrong. When she left, you should have said that you will only accept a wife who will pull her weight. Told her that will like to continue the marriage, but only if she puts in effort with the house and children.

 

Instead, you gave her all the power. You removed her consequences.

 

I totally agree with you , but when we respect vows , love from our heart and are faithfull we are blind .

 

I was blind .

[Phoenician]

To be fair, you did write earlier that a wife should obey her husband. To a western point of view, this IS domineering and oppressive.

 

I suspect that rather than treating each other as equals and working together, the two of you have a terrific power struggle going on. You want her to obey you and she wants to be treated as a Queen. Both of you want to have an upper hand. But only one person can have an upper hand and at present, it's her.

 

-Obeying me is limited from my point of view from perspective that as a wife and mother of 3 children she should take ownership on responsibilities of her own ; I obeyed her and this is the big mistake ; in a successful marriage no one should obey the other it is a partnership as you mentioned.

 

Edited to add: It was foolish of you to choose her knowing that she was lazy and selfish and hope or expect to change her. We CANNOT change another person. This part of the problem is very much your own doing. You must accept responsibility for making a bad choice of wife.

 

-I should only add that the truth didn't sufrace except after marriage and birth of first child ; still I take ownership of my resposibility , that's why I am responsible toward my family .

 

 

 

I should have been more selfish and divorce her with one child ; but now I don't regret it having three lovely kids who adores me like I adore them .

 

I even always encourage them to have a healthy relation with their mom ; which is working as long as I am in this marriage ; because everytime she abuse them emotionnaly I just calmly shorten the distance between them and their mother .