Is there anything I can do to fix this?

May 29, 2017

Okay, this will be a bit of a marathon and I apologize in advance to those who actually decide to read it all, but I really would appreciate any input. I posted this on another site a few days ago, and when I let my girlfriend read it she replied with a post which I will also share to give deeper context. I would appreciate any feedback you can give me.

MY POST:

Hi all, I hope this is the right section to post this in. I am new to this site and actually just joined so I can discuss some of the problems I have been having in my relationship and see what other people have to say. I'm going to try to be as honest and detailed as I can and I hope that I can get some constructive advice to help me decide what I do from here.

Okay, so I started dating this girl four months ago. I'm 34 and she's 30, she has been married twice before and I was engaged once but never married, we both have no kids, she has been cheated on by every partner she has had and let me know this upfront. She went on to explain that she could only date me if I let her have my Facebook password and if I agreed to remove any ex girlfriends from social media. I wasn't really comfortable doing this but I agreed and after a few days we exchanged passwords and I removed some people off Facebook. I didn't delete my ex fiance who lives in another country and who I left years ago, and I didn't delete a platonic friend of mine who I used to go to the gym with and who I had socialized with because I had never pursued any sort of relationship with her so thought that it wouldn't be an issue. It was an issue, she went on and on about me having those two on my Facebook profile, and after a big fight I deleted and blocked them both to keep my girlfriend happy.

And we lived happily ever after... but not quite. This has become a recurring fight that keeps coming up. Even though it is three months ago that I blocked them both from Facebook, she will frequently bring up the fact that I chose them over her because I took too long to remove them. Often she will randomly bring these two girls up into conversation with me and be very insulting of them, she'll refer to them as hoes, as sluts, talk about how ugly and dirty they are etc. She also does this with another ex girlfriend of mine from a year ago that my current girlfriend knows from years back. Whenever she does this I try my best to just ignore her, but when she continues over and over again I eventually will tell her to drop the subject, then she'll say my reaction proves I have feelings for these women and am choosing them over her. I have tried so hard reasoning with her but it has reached the point where I feel my stress levels rise just from her mentioning these peoples names. Many a pleasant evening has been ruined when she'll find some way to bring these people into a conversation and we then descend into a fight.

Another problem we have is that she always accuses me of looking at other women. If we are at a shopping mall and I look at something and there are some women in that general direction she will assume that I was checking out the women. Sometimes she will bring it up with me on the spot, sometimes much later, but it's always a big deal and she's always so certain. There was a night recently where we were out drinking with friends and on the table next to us was a woman who used to be on my Facebook and Instagram accounts but that I didn't know in real life and had not even chatted to on social media. Anyway, I must have looked over at her once or twice because it caused my girlfriend to ask me if I know her. I knew that if I admitted I knew her there was a chance my girlfriend would make a scene in front of my friends so I lied and said I didn't know anyone over there, and the next day when she asked me I continued with this story because I just didn't want to deal with the drama of a huge fight over nothing. Anyway, this did turn into a large fight as it turns out she already knew that this girl was on my social media and according to her is a "well known slut", very nice of her to let me know. Now, in this particular example I did the wrong thing by lying, but as I have explained to my girlfriend I should not have felt the need to lie as most normal people would not react the way she often does. I would have never felt the need to lie to any of my exes because they wouldn't have reacted if I just answered with "Yeah, just some girl on my Facebook, don't really know her though." That's what I think anyway, if I'm wrong I'm happy to hear any other opinions. Oh, and in this example she also said that when I was looking at her I was giving her a sexual kinda look and trying to get her attention, when I pointed out that I'd be nuts to do that because firstly I don't even know the girl really and have never spoken to her, and secondly because my girlfriend was sitting right beside me she took it to mean that if she wasn't next to me I would have done it. I really cannot win with her.

Another issue is that she says that if I find another woman attractive that it is just as bad as cheating because it is what she calls "emotional cheating." She also says that if I watch Porn it is a form of cheating because I would be getting off looking at someone elses body rather than hers. I find all of this bizarre but I have done my best to keep her happy by not watching Porn at all in the time we've been dating (even though every other girlfriend I have had has actually been into watching it themselves and occasionally would use it as a sex aide) and I have also tried to not notice women in public. I hate taking her to a nightclub as she assumes that I'm checking every woman out, I don't want to take her to the gym for the same reason, it has just become really difficult because I know that I'll probably have to deal with accusations no matter what I do.

Between the time I left my fiance two years ago and the time I met my current girlfriend I dated about six other women, they were all short relationships that were not too serious. I had sex with two of them. This according to my girlfriend is also disgusting to her. Dating six women in two years, and sleeping with two women when I wasn't fully in love with them. Interestingly when I started dated my current girlfriend we were groping each other in the cinema on our second date with some heavy petting and at the start of our third date we had sex for the first time. She says that it's different because we fell in love so quickly but I don't see how me having sex with two other women in a two year period is out of line when she obviously has no problem moving fast with someone she's into. Also, she has no problem discussing sex acts she has done with her exes if she wants to suggest a new position to try, but if I was to bring up anything similar I know she would freak out. Once I wanted to show her pictures of the home I used to own that I sold before emigrating and she refused to look saying she doesn't want to see the bedroom where I had sex with that slut (referring to my ex-fiance.)

For most of the relationship we have spent a lot of our time together, she has her own place but would just stay at mine which is what we both preferred. I do love her, the sex is great, and the 80% of the time that she is not putting me through all of this is also great. In the last couple of weeks though we have spent most of our time apart and fighting and the core of it is what I have described above. I am going to wait for a few responses to come in then I will link her this discussion. I am still hoping for some sort of reconciliation but at this stage I know it may not happen as I will only get back with her if I can get her to stop with this behavior that in my view is tearing us apart. I have tried to get her to agree to see a counselor too but she refuses, saying they are for the weak.

That's all I can think of for now, if I think of more I will add to this, and when she sees the conversation she is likely to add her point of view too.

She replied in the thread with this (and was quite angry because every told me to leave her):

It's pretty sad how this whole post is misleading to gain sides with him. Yes , I have insecurities n I refused to date him because I had been cheated on by my exes mainly because it was long distance & they had opportunities to cheat but todate (including last night), my exes try to contact me n I try blocking every means that they can contact me. They tell me how sorry they are n how they failed to appreciate me and chose to cheat just for excitement in my absence. My exes had cheated on me ALWAYS with women they were friends that they previously had attractions for, exes n ex flings. I would trust them so much until I received proofs from these women that he is sleeping with them. I then went through his phones & social accounts n got all evidence. I again left my past fears n gave few more guys a clean slate n gave that trust a man needs n yet again these friends he fancied n exes n ex flings were once again a problem n evidence again received via social accounts. I have done so much for love n relationships which includes leaving my religion, banking career, law study opportunity, AND even got disowned by my family because I chose to find love. Women laughed at me for not finding out that my man sleeps with them. My exes lied to my face n I used to believe it. My ex husband even slept with his ex the day he boarded flight to fiji to marry me and I found out about it four days after my marriage. Again all evidence was in social accounts but I trusted way too much. I then realized that if I had tried looking out for signs n keeping these women out of his life, I would have saved myself alot of heartache.I was even reaching out to become friends with his ex who used to send me his msgs with her, where he said, he can't wait for our wedding dance n for me to give him a family etc n I used to have no trust issues until I informed that this ex was sleeping with him n pretending to be my friend too. After my last relationship n being fooled around & lied to , I decided that I need a break n even if I do then what n when will I be ready to date ritjout tryst issues. It's easy to say there's no relationship without trust but has anyone wondered how it's supposed to be built first? I decided then that if I do date then it's going to be based on three rules. .1) exchanging passwords as I believe there is no secrets in relationship and if u ur chats r private with an opposite sex then clearly there's something that shouldn't be happening. People talk about sharing toilet seats to sharing life together n yet can't share passwords? U need privacy then put a lock in toilet. ..that's all privacy u should get in relationship because if u chat a girl n u think ur partner shouldn't see then what will u doing she bumps into u in public when u r with ur woman? Will u ask ur woman to go stand foots away so u can privately talk to this person? I don't believe in my password ur password unless it's bank account passwords. If u can't share it then u not ready to give all in a relationship. Plus it's not only me in the entire world who share passwords. Many healthy relationship does while many frown upon which is each ones choice n in this case, I didn't force my "bf to be" to give because I told him I hv rules n it's up to him to decide if he is ok with it n if he wasn't then I didn't force him to date me did I? He chose to date me because he agreed to give what I felt I needed to give myself the reassurance of trusting a man.

2) I don't want any ex flings & exes or women he wanted to dare before n has attractions for till now...because these kinds of women broke my marriage

3) no lying even if it's a small thing...it will make me doubt everything u say later...

Now that's the background of my insecurities n why I HAD to set rules to at least do something for me to trust again. I would rather have this to ensure I'm with a right guy than to trust n waste years until I discover him cheating. ..

Now y I said his post is misleading is because :- 1) he didn't mention how I never stopped him from having female friends. His two female friends are known for sleeping around with strangers and I even witnessed one even making out with a girl while her bf sat there upset n ashamed. I didn't stop him to be their friends because I know they r just friends but the woman he mentioned in his post as a friend that I asked him to block is a woman he continues to tell me he is ATTRACTED to n that she's a good girl who he met in club n later she asked him to gym with her and that he was interested I'm DATING HER. Her cousin n even workmates n friend's friends told me to keep close watch because this girl lures men by trapping them then going on dates to observe how well off he is before she gets in bed so she can make a luxury life for her n her son. The problem is that if I tell him that she is not decent n since u r attracted to her n easily fooled by her then she's not one I'm happy for u to keep in ur life along with exes. Again I didn't force this rule down his throat. I told him I can't dare him because I see how he has so many women in his life n it will mk me insecure n that I hv rules that I can't hv exes n women he fancies yo be in his life . He said "I HAVE NO PROBLEM DOING THAT".

Once he got me as his gf n I being head over heels for him because for the first time I thought a guy wants to genuinely live me by giving whatever it takes to save me from my past fears. But as soon as we dated, he broke all promises n FOUGHT to keep these women. It came to a point I asked him y he chooses them over me when they r immoral and unattractive? To which he would put fights n threats to leave me if I say anything about these women. ..now is that what a damaged woman wants to deal with in a new relationship? Her bf defending these women he fancied? Is it right to keep them in my relationship knowing these types of women broke my relationships before? He would lie to me over smallest of things n I never point it out to him that I know the truth n that he's lying because the situation wasn't a big deal to hv an argument on but the day he say at bar eyeing a woman n giving her smiles n I tried distracting him from her because I thought it's not worth a fight over this..he still got right back at ogling at her n her giving back the eyeing n third time I decided to ask him" is there anything interesting? " to which he snapped saying I'm crazy n he doesn't know what I'm talking about. .I dropped it.. then again he sat in a position to face her n again gluing his eyes on her to which I asked "do u know her"? Again he made me look like I'm crazy n as always he said I'll help u get through this because u r mentally unstable. ..wow I thought I'll ask him next day abt her maybe because he was thinking I'll create a scene or something (which I never did ever). .again next day he blamed me n said it's all in my head n he doesn't know I'm talking don't. I knew the girl so I looked her up in his acc (not by logging into his acc fyi rather from my own instagram acc by checking if they r following eachother ) because I know what I saw that dayn I knew I picked on his lies. And of course I saw my bf n her liking eachother's posts religiously. I took screenshotsn sent it to him n told him that once agsin he broke my trust. He lied n how can I trust him..after couple of days he came up with an excuse for his lies that he HAD to lie... it's another thing if u look at someone n look away n it's smother if u mk eye contacts. It's so embarrassing for me as a gf who sits there watching the bf do such a thing n probably the girl thinking "poor dumb gf has no idea her bf trips me"...I told him that he can tell me if he knows people n there's no need to lie because it causes more trust issues. He was caught looking at a girl with mouth piercings n he decided to tell me that he knows her from a bar n that he realized some time ago tbat she doesn't work there anymore because she was a newbie. .I asked if he know this girl (flowed a pic of my friend who works in same bar for many years n she is unattractive) he said nope. I joked that he noticed this girl yet never noticed a girl who works there for so long maybe because u were fishing? this comment only came along because just before he told me who she is, he was telling me that he feels an old guy in my fbk account is just nice to me because he is fishing for young woman. I told him that this man has daughters my age n he gives me fatherly advice to which he said I font believe this because all men FISH ..so I decides to tease him that he noticed this girl n not the old staff because he was fishing too? I expected a laugh but he started fighting. I hugged him n told him that I'm happy he told me how he knows her n that's wat I expect but I was merely joking based on his claim on men in general. He spilt the night by asking me to go home n I kept saying that we shouldn't fight because there's no issue... things like this always happens where I say something small n he is ready with his shield up as if I'm looking for fights. He refuses to listen any truth about women he is attracted to. He would belittle me for them such as words like " xxx is studying law n it's her last year n maybe one day she will be ur boss... I find her attractive ... I'm torn seeing her because I can't talk to her because of u" ...which gf wants to hear this or ignore it n force herself to believe her bf loves her? I feel ugly because he fights for immoral women n finds then attractive n complains about not having them by totally forgetting what my expectations r in relationship. Now I know many couples contacts or hangs out with exes etc but that's because ur partner is doing it too n u hv a leeway n r happy doing this but I have my expectations from a man n that does g mean I'm crazy. I'm just tired of giving men all these sorts of unhealthy freedom that I know I can be cheated on later on...he can probably cheat rich anyone anytime but since men never cared to provide reassurance despite my 100% efforts to being loyal n honest, I decided to set ground rules n if a genuine man who has no desperate need to keep flings n exes n women he is attracted to, then I'm happy to date him but I NEVER FORCED IT..he complains like I forced it. He had problems with that then y date at all ? Now u all can gang me up more after reading this because already image crazy according to u all after all sympathy he gained from half the truth. FYI. .he also forgot to mention that he financially bullies me. I earn $200/week n I pay my rent n bills while he earns far more than me n yet he mocks me for not earning enough. He tells me " u don't put hand in ur pocket" despite me always paying for things I can afford such as all taxi fares when we r out n even sometimes buying him good or buying own. I couldn't eat at his because I felt like a homeless who gets reminded each time how much food cost him. I cook for him almost everyday n I give more than 90% of the meat from my plate to him because I contribute little towards groceries n I feel I can't indulge in eating well at his. I save my meal money to buy him surprise gifts instead of buying myself anything to the extent of doing a hire purchase of electronic device he needed though he didn't ask for it because for me, my partner is all I think of n I can ho to any extent to keep him happy even if it means I'm struggling to make ends meet but a guy like him always telling me I don't thank him enough for movies n dinners etc n that he compares me with the women in his post by saying she's going to be a lawyer n perhaps willbe yr boss when he knows she sleeps her way through to get there. At least I'm struggling financially n yet never asked him for money. He once paid my medical bill n I saw he was not happy n hw said "wasn't expecting this much bill" *$300* , so I called my employers n took loan which I'm still paying through weekly wages. He insisted on paying because I was sick n needed immediate medical consultation. He said he can look after his hill but when bill came, his girl seemed a burden...I never owed his ant money. I do everything to keep him happy but all he had to do was get rid if these two women n stop defending them because when he protects them, it makes me feel he is doing so because he has feelings for them because he wanted to date them before n to make it worse, he acts sad n grumpy when he sees her because he is attracted to her n wants to hv her in his life. He told me that I can't meet any guy friends in his absence while he parties alone with his female friend who has history of random hookups. I am not allowed to meet my friends unless HE takes me or rare occasions I managed to meet friends because we had fights n my friends r all girls n one gay guy. Even if I'm out with girls only, he msgs me "enjoy hoe" while he is alone partying with a girl. We would hv fights sometimes n when he dies the same thing again n I point it out to him that he promised to change n he wouldn't do this,,he tells me "what? I font remember us having this issue before. .what u talking about? U made it up. U r unstable. ." He has no recollection of things that transpired. .. strange really. .. now he sweet talks to u all like a caring bf whose gf is crazy n he wants to be a saint to help me. Where was he when he agreed to give what it may take up save me? Hw waa busy breaking promisesn lying n ogling women n fighting for community service sex service provider of a woman to the extent of telling me that i look like his ex who btw is seriously very unattractive. .this made me feel like he is with my because he saw his ex n me..I find myself ugly when I see myself. I fear having to see these women anywhere with him around because I know I will endup crying after seeing my bf being sad not having them in his life. That's how a gf should feel? I can understand if he lost a gd close friend of years that I asked him to not contact. .but these women r women he met in club n knew for few months. Them over me? That's what a gf shouldn't question herself because the whole relationship is not enjoyable knowing ur man is sad not having a woman he wanted to daten is attracted to. I lost my self esteem. ..I got called mentally ill if I express my concerns... anyways I know as usual he song with u all will find ways to justify his behavior because this world runs in a weird way.. immoral people n who do wrong r praised but victims r blamed. ..a lie is a lie even if u all believe it and a truth is a truth even if u all don't believe it. I won't respond to anyone here because I detailed everything in a long msg...enough said.

TO SUM UP

I have never cheated on her or anyone else, really do love her and if I could get rid of this jealousy I'd keep her. I haven't seen her now for about 4 days and we spent most of the weekend arguing my text, my position being that I won't consider dating her unless we see a counselor and her saying that she refuses but that it is me that has to change. Yesterday she also started saying that she will no longer trust me to go to the gym on my own either because she cannot trust me around a certain woman there (someone I have not even seen in 4 months and blocked for her but does also go to that gym.)

Sorry it has been such a long read, but any assistance would be appreciated.

Is this the longest first post ever?

May 29, 2017

Okay, this will be a bit of a marathon and I apologize in advance to those who actually decide to read it all, but I really would appreciate any input. I posted this on another site a few days ago, and when I let my girlfriend read it she replied with a post which I will also share to give deeper context. I would appreciate any feedback you can give me.

MY POST:
Hi all, I hope this is the right section to post this in. I am new to this site and actually just joined so I can discuss some of the problems I have been having in my relationship and see what other people have to say. I'm going to try to be as honest and detailed as I can and I hope that I can get some constructive advice to help me decide what I do from here.

Okay, so I started dating this girl four months ago. I'm 34 and she's 30, she has been married twice before and I was engaged once but never married, we both have no kids, she has been cheated on by every partner she has had and let me know this upfront. She went on to explain that she could only date me if I let her have my Facebook password and if I agreed to remove any ex girlfriends from social media. I wasn't really comfortable doing this but I agreed and after a few days we exchanged passwords and I removed some people off Facebook. I didn't delete my ex fiance who lives in another country and who I left years ago, and I didn't delete a platonic friend of mine who I used to go to the gym with and who I had socialized with because I had never pursued any sort of relationship with her so thought that it wouldn't be an issue. It was an issue, she went on and on about me having those two on my Facebook profile, and after a big fight I deleted and blocked them both to keep my girlfriend happy.

And we lived happily ever after... but not quite. This has become a recurring fight that keeps coming up. Even though it is three months ago that I blocked them both from Facebook, she will frequently bring up the fact that I chose them over her because I took too long to remove them. Often she will randomly bring these two girls up into conversation with me and be very insulting of them, she'll refer to them as hoes, as sluts, talk about how ugly and dirty they are etc. She also does this with another ex girlfriend of mine from a year ago that my current girlfriend knows from years back. Whenever she does this I try my best to just ignore her, but when she continues over and over again I eventually will tell her to drop the subject, then she'll say my reaction proves I have feelings for these women and am choosing them over her. I have tried so hard reasoning with her but it has reached the point where I feel my stress levels rise just from her mentioning these peoples names. Many a pleasant evening has been ruined when she'll find some way to bring these people into a conversation and we then descend into a fight.

Another problem we have is that she always accuses me of looking at other women. If we are at a shopping mall and I look at something and there are some women in that general direction she will assume that I was checking out the women. Sometimes she will bring it up with me on the spot, sometimes much later, but it's always a big deal and she's always so certain. There was a night recently where we were out drinking with friends and on the table next to us was a woman who used to be on my Facebook and Instagram accounts but that I didn't know in real life and had not even chatted to on social media. Anyway, I must have looked over at her once or twice because it caused my girlfriend to ask me if I know her. I knew that if I admitted I knew her there was a chance my girlfriend would make a scene in front of my friends so I lied and said I didn't know anyone over there, and the next day when she asked me I continued with this story because I just didn't want to deal with the drama of a huge fight over nothing. Anyway, this did turn into a large fight as it turns out she already knew that this girl was on my social media and according to her is a "well known slut", very nice of her to let me know. Now, in this particular example I did the wrong thing by lying, but as I have explained to my girlfriend I should not have felt the need to lie as most normal people would not react the way she often does. I would have never felt the need to lie to any of my exes because they wouldn't have reacted if I just answered with "Yeah, just some girl on my Facebook, don't really know her though." That's what I think anyway, if I'm wrong I'm happy to hear any other opinions. Oh, and in this example she also said that when I was looking at her I was giving her a sexual kinda look and trying to get her attention, when I pointed out that I'd be nuts to do that because firstly I don't even know the girl really and have never spoken to her, and secondly because my girlfriend was sitting right beside me she took it to mean that if she wasn't next to me I would have done it. I really cannot win with her.

Another issue is that she says that if I find another woman attractive that it is just as bad as cheating because it is what she calls "emotional cheating."

You need paragraphs to make reading less difficult.

Second I did not read further then this because of the eye strain and life

experience say's it's way past time to dump this woman.

She needs years of IC before she will be ready to date.

May 29, 2017

This post was a chore to read, but I'm in an airport with little to do so...

You are an emotional hostage to a person who is carting around suitcases of her past. This is a situation that will never get better because the onus is on you to fix life, to make up for the cheats in her past and to feed her ego while also trying to fill a black hole of insecurity, one person simply cannot fill. The mental and emotional gymnastics she will put you through will destroy your quality of life. 80% of your relationship is not good if you are fearful to be who you are and must check in with her insecurity and are dodging her emotional abuse.

The important point is this....what in your history, in your life has made you think criticism, extreme control and negativity is acceptable behavior from anyone?

It is time to move on,

Grumps

May 29, 2017

I read the first paragraph.....she is emotionally abusive. Someone who is that jealous/paranoid can never ever trust you. She is a bag full of issues....get out now!

A relationship cannot survive on love alone....you need trust, honesty, compromise, respect, compatibility, and reliability. You have none of those.

May 29, 2017

10 characters

May 29, 2017

She is in no way ready to be in a mature, healthy relationship. She is bullying and controlling and blames it all on her past. Being cheated on does not give her a pass to be an emotionally abusive jerk to you.

My ex-boyfriend was very similar. You can't "make the jealousy go away." It will get worse, much worse. And at just a few months? Definitely not worth it. You two don't have the basic ingredients of a healthy and happy relationship.

Dump her. Find someone who isn't projecting all of her anger and hurt onto her current partner who played no part in it.

May 29, 2017

Sometimes you just need to accept that something is broken and you don't have the tools to fix it and sometimes it's just not worth trying to fix.

In this case, you would be taking on a real project like Frankenstein did. He tried to build a man, only had parts of dead people, and actually got it to walk around. In the end, it was a broken, shell of a person. Yeah, it kinda looked like a man and it walked, but it wasn't pretty and no one else wanted to be around it either.

Run!

May 29, 2017

Sam, welcome to the LoveShack forum. The behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational jealousy, paranoia, verbal abuse, controlling efforts, temper tantrums, lack of impulse control, inability to trust, low self esteem, rapid flips between adoring you and devaluing you, and always being "The Victim" -- are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your GF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit strong traits of it.

I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your GF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as verbal abuse, always being "The Victim," irrational jealousy, and temper tantrums.

Many a pleasant evening has been ruined when she'll find some way to bring these people into a conversation and we then descend into a fight.

If her irrational jealousy were being triggered only when she catches you looking at another woman or sending an email, I would say you are describing only an abandonment fear. Yet, because she repeatedly starts fights at home by raising this issue in the middle of conversations on other issues, you seem to be describing a woman who also has a second great fear: engulfment.

If she is a BPDer (i.e., exhibits strong BPD traits), she craves intimacy like nearly every other adult -- but cannot tolerate it for very long. Because BPDers have an unstable, weak sense of who they are, they are attracted to partners having strong stable personalities and a strong self identity. Yet, because the BPDer has little sense of her own personal boundaries, she will start to feel enmeshed with her partner's strong personality during intimacy. She will feel suffocated and controlled by that partner. Because this scary feeling occurs entirely at a subconscious level, she will be convinced -- at a conscious level -- that you actually are suffocating and controlling her.

The result is that a BPDer will frequently create fights -- over nothing at all -- to push her partner away, giving her breathing space. Because she is unconsciously projecting her fears onto him, she truly believes that the fears and painful feelings are coming from HIM. And, because these feelings are so intense, she is convinced they MUST be true and he MUST be responsible for them. This is why you will frequently hear a BPDer making such outrageous accusations that you will marvel than any adult can make such appalling claims while holding a straight face.

Significantly, the trigger for that engulfment fear is a sustained period of intimacy. This is why BPDers usually start the very WORST fights during or immediately after the very BEST of times -- e.g., the morning after an intimate evening, right after a great weekend spent together, or right in the middle of an expensive vacation.

I really cannot win with her.

If she is a BPDer, you will find yourself in a lose/lose situation no matter what you do. This occurs due to the position of the BPDer's two great fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- at the opposite ends of the very same spectrum. This means it is impossible to back away from one fear (to avoid triggering it) without starting to trigger the second fear at the other end of that same spectrum.

Hence, as you move close to a BPDer to comfort her and assure her of your love, you will start triggering her engulfment fear, making her feel like she's being suffocated and controlled by you. Yet, as you back away to give her breathing space, you will soon find out that you've started triggering her abandonment fear. And, sadly, there is no midpoints solution (between "too close" and "too far away") where you can safely stand to avoid triggering the two fears. I know because I foolishly spent 15 years searching for that Goldilocks position, which simply does not exist.

She has been cheated on by every partner she has had.

Really Sam? How do you know this is true? If she is a BPDer, she will idealize her BFs during the courtship period but, as her infatuation starts to evaporate, her fears will return and she will start devaluing them -- or eventually even hating them. And she will be absolutely convinced that her derogatory comments about them are true.

The result is that BPDers typically believe that all of their ex-partners betrayed or abandoned them in some way. Hence, if she is a BPDer, you almost certainly will be added to her long list of "cheating exBFs" when you walk away. Amazingly, you are only four months into the R/S and she already is convinced you have been emotionally cheating on her.

I do love her, the sex is great, and the 80% of the time that she is not putting me through all of this is also great.

Some of my very favorite people are BPDers. A BPDer's problem is not being bad but, rather, being unstable. This instability and immaturity gives most BPDers a passion, warmth, purity of expression, and vulnerability that otherwise is seen only in young children. These qualities can make them very easy to fall in love with and very difficult to walk away from -- even after their abusive behavior begins. It therefore is not surprising that two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both had full-blown BPD if their biographers are correct.

I won't consider dating her unless we see a counselor.

Sam, if she really does exhibit strong BPD traits, seeing a MC likely would be a total waste of time because her issues go far beyond a lack of simple communication skills. What is needed, in that case, is several years of intensive individual therapy like CBT or DBT.

I may also need counseling for staying in this sort of relationship

If she is a BPDer, you may need counseling not to enable you to STAY but, rather, to enable you to LEAVE. As I noted above, it is very difficult and painful to leave a BPDer because you will feel like you are abandoning a young child. If that proves to be the case with you, I suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you read about BPD warning signs to see if they seem to apply.

An easy place to start reading is my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of those red flags sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you -- and I would encourage you to NOT show this thread to your GF.

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your GF's issues. Although strong BPD symptoms are easy to spot, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe and persistent as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid taking her back and avoid running into the arms of another woman just like her. Take care, Sam.

May 30, 2017

Your GF set 3 rules as a condition to date her. While I don’t agree with her rules, she has every right to set up her life the way she wants. She’s right that you agreed to these rules. Then you broke them over & over & over. The fact that you think the solution to this problem is to lie to your GF again makes you no better than her EXs. You are proving herpoint that men can’t be trusted.

When you violated her trust, she should have walked away from you. Instead she stuck around &now hounds you about it. She can’t let go. More troubling, she calls the women names. Even in her response to your thread, she seems to blame the women her EXs cheated with rather than the guys themselves.

Your GF has issues. Her reaction – calling the woman names – rather than addressing your wandering eye & treatment of her as your issue -- is pathetic. Your GF has NO self esteem. She’d get some of it back by dumping you because you broke her rules. Half her problem is that she’s a doormat. She talks a good game – a man has to do this if he wants to be with her but even in the face of a guy, like you, who lies to her & befriends people she doesn’t approve of, she stays. Not only that, but she then further subjugates herself by depriving herself of necessities like food to buy you gifts. This poor woman is desperate to be loved. Sadly that is never going to happen until she gets therapy & rebuilds herself from the inside. Instead she continues to look for some external man to validate her. It’s just a bad cycle because she has a lousy picker.

You & her need to break up. Your GF needs to learn to love herself. She needs therapy & I really hope she gets it. Her life will be so much better. Hanging around with you will continue to stunt her emotional growth.

Edited May 30, 2017 by d0nnivain

May 30, 2017

Your GF set 3 rules as a condition to date her. While I don’t agree with her rules, she has every right to set up her life the way she wants. She’s right that you agreed to these rules. Then you broke them over & over & over. The fact that you think the solution to this problem is to lie to your GF again makes you no better than her EXs. You are proving herpoint that men can’t be trusted.

When you violated her trust, she should have walked away from you. Instead she stuck around &now hounds you about it. She can’t let go. More troubling, she calls the women names. Even in her response to your thread, she seems to blame the women her EXs cheated with rather than the guys themselves.

Your GF has issues. Her reaction – calling the woman names – rather than addressing your wandering eye & treatment of her as your issue -- is pathetic. Your GF has NO self esteem. She’d get some of it back by dumping you because you broke her rules. Half her problem is that she’s a doormat. She talks a good game – a man has to do this if he wants to be with her but even in the face of a guy, like you, who lies to her & befriends people she doesn’t approve of, she stays. Not only that, but she then further subjugates herself by depriving herself of necessities like food to buy you gifts. This poor woman is desperate to be loved. Sadly that is never going to happen until she gets therapy & rebuilds herself from the inside. Instead she continues to look for some external man to validate her. It’s just a bad cycle because she has a lousy picker.

You & her need to break up. Your GF needs to learn to love herself. She needs therapy & I really hope she gets it. Her life will be so much better. Hanging around with you will continue to stunt her emotional growth.

Hi Donnivain, I appreciate your point of view, but I'll explain a few things further from my perspective to see if you still feel the same way or not.

I agreed to her three rules and didn't break them over and over and over as you put it. I didn't delete my ex fiance or platonic friend at first as I didn't feel they fell within the criteria. My ex-fiance was someone I hadn't seen in years, I was the one who dumped her, and I hadn't spoken to her in over a year, she lives in another country too. The platonic friend was only a platonic friend despite the fact my girlfriend doesn't believe her to be, and in any case I deleted and blocked both of these people about one or two weeks into the relationship and that was four months ago yet it is brought up again and again. She has literally told me off for not blocking them a couple of times a week for every week that has happened since blocking them four months ago. I never bring them up in conversation, never see them, never even think about them except for when she mentions them, and now when I do think about them it is just wishing they didn't exist for all the drama they cause me constantly.

I certainly don't think that lying to her is a solution to the problem, definitely not. I did lie in the example where there was the girl on the other table, but this was (from my point of view) to avoid an embarrassing situation where I felt she was likely to cry or argue or storm out in front of our mutual friends, subsequently I lied about the same thing later to try to prevent a big fight because in spite of what she claims, she always overreacts and that may last days, weeks, or like the situation I spoke about in the above paragraph, could be something brought up constantly for months. In the end it all happened anyway, but this is what I wanted to avoid when I decided not to just come out and say I recognise the person on the next table. If she wasn't prone to overreact I wouldn't have lied, because really the truth wouldn't be an issue for most people - the truth being that it was a girl I barely know, have never spoken to etc, and if I looked over it certainly wasn't for any flirtatious reason.

Also, I don't feel I have a wandering eye, I mean, I have never cheated on any partner and I haven't flirted with any other women in the 4+ months I have dated my current partner. If I look in the direction of a woman who isn't unattractive in her view she immediately assumes I was checking the girl out, flirting with her, and therefore 'emotionally cheating', I have been accused of this a couple of times at shopping malls when I never even got to see the woman in question for even a split second because I was actually looking at something else and she decided to accuse me at a later stage.

I see that she has a lack of self esteem, I noticed that from the first few dates when she kept telling me that she thinks I'm too good looking for her etc, which I found odd because while I'll admit I'm not a bad looking fella, she's absolutely stunning and was doing catwalk modelling (just as a hobby but during an annual fashion week) for many years up until two or three years ago. I disagree where you called her a doormat too, fact is I have actually given in to most of her demands over these months and am only now putting my foot down because I can see nothing will please her unless she re-evaluates her expectations or actually sets ground rules for both of us that cannot just be shifted at her will. I feel I have drastically changed the way I live my life (hardly go to nightclubs or to the gym for example even if she's with me because I know she'll find something to react to), so I feel I have adjusted a lot just to keep her insecurities appeased and despite my efforts she has gotten worse and worse.

The part about depriving herself of food is a blatant exaggeration. When she stays with me (which has been weeks and months at a time when we haven't had these big fights, which usually only lasted a day max anyway) I pay for all the food in the house and take her out to dinner, take her to movies etc, she insists on chipping in $20 a week to contribute which is probably about 5% of what I spend on food/drink/entertainment etc for a typical week and she's with me for all of that. I have never asked her to chip in, and never reminded her when she has forgotten or been late, because I don't want or need it, I earn good money. I know that if I tell her that I don't want it she'll find a way to be insulted or something so I just accept what she wants, I spend most of my time walking on eggshells trying to avoid a fight really. Now, she has bought gifts for me at times and they have always been a pleasant surprise but I really don't see how they have caused her to go without food, I know what her expenses are and what her wage is, so yeah, she says this to me at times but it doesn't hold weight as far as I can see.

Since writing this I am happy to let you all know she has agreed to go to a counseling session with me on Friday. She is saying that she is only going to prove that I'm the one who needs help so I have my doubts whether this will be fruitful, but to me it is a step in the right direction and gives me some hope that I can bring her back to the lovable girl she has been when not a mesh of what I know to be irrational fears (because I would never cheat and really do love her.) I am open to anything a counselor suggests to both of us, and if there are a few small things I can do to help her I definitely will, but so far it seems that every time I move towards where she wants me to go she shifts the goal-posts so that she has a reason to get upset and cause drama. I have been doing a lot of reading the past few days and it is now my belief that she suffers from Borderline Personality Disorder, and while most people I have spoken to in this time have told me that after four months I should just move on, I actually really love the girl, so if there's a way to remove these personality traits I'd love to help her, I'd feel like like such a scumbag if I was to abandon her in this time of need if she really has this type of illness, and at this stage I cannot see how she won't. I mean, this conversation is only one part of the story, there's so much more that goes into why I am so sure of myself. Last night I ended a conversation with her on snapcahat because she was just being argumentative and repeating the same old stuff, I woke up the next day and found she had sent me at least 10 more messages followed by about 30 or more memes all on the topic of unfaithful boyfriends and liars etc. When I saw this in the morning I decided not to reply at all, although we were chatting by email later on in the morning (and I never mentioned the whole snapchat thing as I didn't know what to say really.)

As well as most people telling me to leave her due to the way she's acting (you're the first person to tell me that I'm the one holding her back BTW), they have also been telling me that I must need some sort of counseling for the fact I am drawn to stay in this rather unhealthy relationship instead of just walking away like almost everyone would have long ago, and I guess that is something I need to find out about myself, perhaps the counseling session on Friday will tell me something about myself I can use as well.

May 30, 2017

She is in no way ready to be in a mature, healthy relationship. She is bullying and controlling and blames it all on her past. Being cheated on does not give her a pass to be an emotionally abusive jerk to you.

My ex-boyfriend was very similar. You can't "make the jealousy go away." It will get worse, much worse. And at just a few months? Definitely not worth it. You two don't have the basic ingredients of a healthy and happy relationship.

Dump her. Find someone who isn't projecting all of her anger and hurt onto her current partner who played no part in it.

Thanks for your view, I know I will probably end up dumping her at this rate but I do really love her so I'll see what happens. Seeing a counselor with her on Friday, if it's still no good I will probably have no choice. Life is short, I can't waste forever on someone who won't accept help.

May 30, 2017

Sam, welcome to the LoveShack forum. The behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational jealousy, paranoia, verbal abuse, controlling efforts, temper tantrums, lack of impulse control, inability to trust, low self esteem, rapid flips between adoring you and devaluing you, and always being "The Victim" -- are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your GF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit strong traits of it.

I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your GF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as verbal abuse, always being "The Victim," irrational jealousy, and temper tantrums.

If her irrational jealousy were being triggered only when she catches you looking at another woman or sending an email, I would say you are describing only an abandonment fear. Yet, because she repeatedly starts fights at home by raising this issue in the middle of conversations on other issues, you seem to be describing a woman who also has a second great fear: engulfment.

If she is a BPDer (i.e., exhibits strong BPD traits), she craves intimacy like nearly every other adult -- but cannot tolerate it for very long. Because BPDers have an unstable, weak sense of who they are, they are attracted to partners having strong stable personalities and a strong self identity. Yet, because the BPDer has little sense of her own personal boundaries, she will start to feel enmeshed with her partner's strong personality during intimacy. She will feel suffocated and controlled by that partner. Because this scary feeling occurs entirely at a subconscious level, she will be convinced -- at a conscious level -- that you actually are suffocating and controlling her.

The result is that a BPDer will frequently create fights -- over nothing at all -- to push her partner away, giving her breathing space. Because she is unconsciously projecting her fears onto him, she truly believes that the fears and painful feelings are coming from HIM. And, because these feelings are so intense, she is convinced they MUST be true and he MUST be responsible for them. This is why you will frequently hear a BPDer making such outrageous accusations that you will marvel than any adult can make such appalling claims while holding a straight face.

Significantly, the trigger for that engulfment fear is a sustained period of intimacy. This is why BPDers usually start the very WORST fights during or immediately after the very BEST of times -- e.g., the morning after an intimate evening, right after a great weekend spent together, or right in the middle of an expensive vacation.

If she is a BPDer, you will find yourself in a lose/lose situation no matter what you do. This occurs due to the position of the BPDer's two great fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- at the opposite ends of the very same spectrum. This means it is impossible to back away from one fear (to avoid triggering it) without starting to trigger the second fear at the other end of that same spectrum.

Hence, as you move close to a BPDer to comfort her and assure her of your love, you will start triggering her engulfment fear, making her feel like she's being suffocated and controlled by you. Yet, as you back away to give her breathing space, you will soon find out that you've started triggering her abandonment fear. And, sadly, there is no midpoints solution (between "too close" and "too far away") where you can safely stand to avoid triggering the two fears. I know because I foolishly spent 15 years searching for that Goldilocks position, which simply does not exist.

Really Sam? How do you know this is true? If she is a BPDer, she will idealize her BFs during the courtship period but, as her infatuation starts to evaporate, her fears will return and she will start devaluing them -- or eventually even hating them. And she will be absolutely convinced that her derogatory comments about them are true.

The result is that BPDers typically believe that all of their ex-partners betrayed or abandoned them in some way. Hence, if she is a BPDer, you almost certainly will be added to her long list of "cheating exBFs" when you walk away. Amazingly, you are only four months into the R/S and she already is convinced you have been emotionally cheating on her.

Some of my very favorite people are BPDers. A BPDer's problem is not being bad but, rather, being unstable. This instability and immaturity gives most BPDers a passion, warmth, purity of expression, and vulnerability that otherwise is seen only in young children. These qualities can make them very easy to fall in love with and very difficult to walk away from -- even after their abusive behavior begins. It therefore is not surprising that two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both had full-blown BPD if their biographers are correct.

Sam, if she really does exhibit strong BPD traits, seeing a MC likely would be a total waste of time because her issues go far beyond a lack of simple communication skills. What is needed, in that case, is several years of intensive individual therapy like CBT or DBT.

If she is a BPDer, you may need counseling not to enable you to STAY but, rather, to enable you to LEAVE. As I noted above, it is very difficult and painful to leave a BPDer because you will feel like you are abandoning a young child. If that proves to be the case with you, I suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you read about BPD warning signs to see if they seem to apply.

An easy place to start reading is my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of those red flags sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you -- and I would encourage you to NOT show this thread to your GF.

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your GF's issues. Although strong BPD symptoms are easy to spot, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe and persistent as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid taking her back and avoid running into the arms of another woman just like her. Take care, Sam.

Thank you for your help. I think you are probably right. I sent her the 18 point list and told her I think she has this and told her I want to help her through it, she replied by telling me that none of the 18 points apply to her but that they all apply to me. I have gotten her to agree to see a counselor but I have a feeling this is going to be a long road ahead if it works out, but the idea of leaving her is for the first time starting to seriously look like my only recourse.

May 30, 2017

This post was a chore to read, but I'm in an airport with little to do so...
You are an emotional hostage to a person who is carting around suitcases of her past. This is a situation that will never get better because the onus is on you to fix life, to make up for the cheats in her past and to feed her ego while also trying to fill a black hole of insecurity, one person simply cannot fill. The mental and emotional gymnastics she will put you through will destroy your quality of life. 80% of your relationship is not good if you are fearful to be who you are and must check in with her insecurity and are dodging her emotional abuse.
The important point is this....what in your history, in your life has made you think criticism, extreme control and negativity is acceptable behavior from anyone?
It is time to move on,
Grumps

Thanks, I'll let you guys know of any further developments.

May 30, 2017

I read the first paragraph.....she is emotionally abusive. Someone who is that jealous/paranoid can never ever trust you. She is a bag full of issues....get out now!

A relationship cannot survive on love alone....you need trust, honesty, compromise, respect, compatibility, and reliability. You have none of those.

Trust - I trust her, she doesn't trust me... she doesn't trust men in general.

Honesty - Okay, I told what I would consider a few white lies to avoid fights, haven't hidden any infidelity though.

Compromise - I have compromised greatly for her, not sure she has done the same although I'm sure she'd beg to differ

Respect - My respect for her is decreasing due to the way she is conducting herself but I do respect certain things about her and she does the same for me, she just isn't showing it lately.

Compatibility - Funny you say that, when this stuff isn't happening we are actually extremely compatible. We often think about the same thing at the same time and she has often referred to me as the male version of her. Not so flattering though in light of the fact I now believe her to be suffering from some intense mental issues, I'm by no means perfect but I really hope I'm not suffering from anything myself for wanting to stay in this relationship!

Reliability - We're both super reliable, we've been together almost every day and night since we started dating, I have always let her know what I am up to at any time in the day, and I have invited her everywhere I have gone in that time. With her she makes herself available and wants nothing more than to be by my side usually. I don't know if all of that meets the criteria of 'reliability' but there is nothing unreliable about either of us.

So yeah, I cannot agree when you say we have none of those, feel free to read beyond the first paragraph if you'd like to share a more helpful response.

May 30, 2017

Sometimes you just need to accept that something is broken and you don't have the tools to fix it and sometimes it's just not worth trying to fix.

In this case, you would be taking on a real project like Frankenstein did. He tried to build a man, only had parts of dead people, and actually got it to walk around. In the end, it was a broken, shell of a person. Yeah, it kinda looked like a man and it walked, but it wasn't pretty and no one else wanted to be around it either.

Run!

Yeah okay, thanks for your advice. Might have to. Will keep you all posted whatever the case is...

Keep the advice coming!!!

May 30, 2017

I sent her the 18 point list and told her I think she has this and told her I want to help her through it, she replied by telling me that none of the 18 points apply to her but that they all apply to me.

That's why I encouraged you to NOT show the thread to her. If she is a BPDer, her subconscious works 24/7 protecting her fragile ego from seeing too much of reality. It accomplishes this by projecting her hurtful feelings and bad thoughts onto YOU. At a conscious level, she is unaware that this projection is occurring. Hence, telling a BPDer the name of her disorder almost certainly means she will project it back onto you, with the result that she will be convinced that YOU are the BPDer. This is one reason that therapists generally are loath to tell a high functioning BPDer the name of her disorder.

I have gotten her to agree to see a counselor but I have a feeling this is going to be a long road ahead if it works out, but the idea of leaving her is for the first time starting to seriously look like my only recourse.

Likewise, I persuaded my BPDer exW to see a therapist to avoid my walking out. Indeed, she saw 6 different psychologists (together with 3 MCs) in weekly visits for 15 years. Although it cost me a fortune, the therapy did not make a dent in her behavior. Not one dent. High functioning BPDers generally lack the self awareness and ego strength needed to do well in therapy.

I've not seen any statistics in academic studies but would guess that less than 5% of them have the self awareness needed -- and perhaps a fifth of that 5% have the necessary ego strength. This is why, if a BPDer is not badly wanting to attend therapy on her own, she likely will only play mind games with the therapist. And, as soon as he starts to catch on to her true issues a year or two later, she will replace him with another therapist. It may take a therapist 2 or 3 years to see the dysfunctional behaviors you see all week long.

May 30, 2017

Sam

Your GF's rule # 2 was that any man she dates can't be friends with EXs, former flings or women he ever wanted to date. For you to have left your former Fiancé on your friends list on the grounds that she lives in a different country & you haven't spoken to her in years is a blatant violation of your GF's rule. How could you possibly think if your GF wasn't OK with women you wanted to date that she'd be OK with a woman you almost married on your friend's list? Once you deleted the fiancé, your GF needed to stop harping on it. The fact that she can't let go is a symptom of her paranoia.

Your GF's "rules" are over the top. She needs help & I'm glad she's going with you to get it but when you agreed to abide by the rules, breaking them was your fault.

The fact that she doesn't see that she has a problem is troubling. The fact that you think you "love her" is problematic. This is a dysfunctional relationship. You don't love her. You want to save her. You want to be the guy who proves her theory that all men are jerks is wrong. But you are not that guy. You admitted in your first post that you lied to her. Her rule # 3 is no lying.

Again, since in the few short months you have been together you broke 2/3 of her rules, the fact that she stays with you proves how damaged she is. She is so desperate for love. Although you aren't the honorable guy you insist that you are, you are probably still better than the guys from her past so she stays because she doesn't know what a truly good man looks like.

Even if her perspective on the money thing is an exaggeration your response to me shows a kernel of truth in it. You mention that she pays 5% of what you do but then you say something about not mentioning that she's "late" with her contribution. If she's not required to pay, she can't be late. So I think somewhere in here, you have expectations about her financial contribution. Even if she's blowing them out of proportion something you're doing is triggering this.

I'm glad she is going to counseling with you but you two don't need couples counseling. It won't help. She need individual counseling. Until she addresses the extreme insecurity brought on by all the damage in her relatively young life, she will never be healthy enough to have a flourishing relationship.

May 30, 2017

That's why I encouraged you to NOT show the thread to her. If she is a BPDer, her subconscious works 24/7 protecting her fragile ego from seeing too much of reality. It accomplishes this by projecting her hurtful feelings and bad thoughts onto YOU. At a conscious level, she is unaware that this projection is occurring. Hence, telling a BPDer the name of her disorder almost certainly means she will project it back onto you, with the result that she will be convinced that YOU are the BPDer. This is one reason that therapists generally are loath to tell a high functioning BPDer the name of her disorder.

Likewise, I persuaded my BPDer exW to see a therapist to avoid my walking out. Indeed, she saw 6 different psychologists (together with 3 MCs) in weekly visits for 15 years. Although it cost me a fortune, the therapy did not make a dent in her behavior. Not one dent. High functioning BPDers generally lack the self awareness and ego strength needed to do well in therapy.

I've not seen any statistics in academic studies but would guess that less than 5% of them have the self awareness needed -- and perhaps a fifth of that 5% have the necessary ego strength. This is why, if a BPDer is not badly wanting to attend therapy on her own, she likely will only play mind games with the therapist. And, as soon as he starts to catch on to her true issues a year or two later, she will replace him with another therapist. It may take a therapist 2 or 3 years to see the dysfunctional behaviors you see all week long.

Ah okay, I didn't show her the thread, I just copy pasted the list to her. Clearly it didn't have the desired result though.

Based on the other info you've given I guess I shouldn't be too hopeful of the counseling helping then. Well, thanks for your assistance anyway, nice to hear from someone who has clearly gone through much more than I currently am. If I don't see any progress after the first counseling session I may just have to cut and run. It's a shame, but the more this fight with her goes on the more I feel like it's okay to walk away, and also I am so busy at work lately it won't be as hard to take my mind off her and do other things.

May 30, 2017

This caught my eye:

It's pretty sad how this whole post is misleading to gain sides with him. Yes , I have insecurities n I refused to date him because I had been cheated on by my exes mainly because it was long distance & they had opportunities to cheat but todate (including last night), my exes try to contact me n I try blocking every means that they can contact me.

and stop right there. You are basically being put on probation for other people's crimes, right out of the gate.

That she needs to do this simply shows how damaged she is by her past. I guess you've heard that already.

Why you have agreed to bow to her insecurities is a complete mystery to me.

There's nothing but trouble for you here. Cut and run.

May 30, 2017

Sam

Your GF's rule # 2 was that any man she dates can't be friends with EXs, former flings or women he ever wanted to date. For you to have left your former Fiancé on your friends list on the grounds that she lives in a different country & you haven't spoken to her in years is a blatant violation of your GF's rule. How could you possibly think if your GF wasn't OK with women you wanted to date that she'd be OK with a woman you almost married on your friend's list? Once you deleted the fiancé, your GF needed to stop harping on it. The fact that she can't let go is a symptom of her paranoia.

Your GF's "rules" are over the top. She needs help & I'm glad she's going with you to get it but when you agreed to abide by the rules, breaking them was your fault.

The fact that she doesn't see that she has a problem is troubling. The fact that you think you "love her" is problematic. This is a dysfunctional relationship. You don't love her. You want to save her. You want to be the guy who proves her theory that all men are jerks is wrong. But you are not that guy. You admitted in your first post that you lied to her. Her rule # 3 is no lying.

Again, since in the few short months you have been together you broke 2/3 of her rules, the fact that she stays with you proves how damaged she is. She is so desperate for love. Although you aren't the honorable guy you insist that you are, you are probably still better than the guys from her past so she stays because she doesn't know what a truly good man looks like.

Even if her perspective on the money thing is an exaggeration your response to me shows a kernel of truth in it. You mention that she pays 5% of what you do but then you say something about not mentioning that she's "late" with her contribution. If she's not required to pay, she can't be late. So I think somewhere in here, you have expectations about her financial contribution. Even if she's blowing them out of proportion something you're doing is triggering this.

I'm glad she is going to counseling with you but you two don't need couples counseling. It won't help. She need individual counseling. Until she addresses the extreme insecurity brought on by all the damage in her relatively young life, she will never be healthy enough to have a flourishing relationship.

I agree with you that leaving my ex fiance on was an oversight and an exercise in poor judgement on my part, but it was not because I am interested in that woman at all. Still, I did remove her four months ago and my gf has been madly in love with me so many times between the time I blocked her and now so it gets a bit bizarre to have it brought up all the time.

I do love my gf, I also want to save her. I am not perfect and I have lied to her to prevent a fight on occasion, but I don't think I am a jerk and I know I would treat her well if she could get past her current issues. I mean, I have never cheated on any partner in my life and never would, also, I have never had any other girlfriends feel they couldn't trust me, so I don't think the way I behave is bad at all, and this is a very new experience for me.

I broke 2/3 rules, but one of them was sorted out 4 months ago and hasn't been broken since. The other rule I have broken but I feel that it is only because I have been under duress, and while that doesn't forgive the fact I lied, it has to be considered a mitigating circumstance as far as I'm concerned. I mean, if I didn't feel under duress I would not have lied, as in my view I have not done anything inappropriate at any time since I started dating her. I was always extremely honest with my ex of four years because I wasn't constantly worried she would fly off the handle over the slightest perceived infraction. I've learned this girlfriends hot buttons, and if I see a conversation moving towards one my instinct is to redirect and avoid at any cost because I hate fighting, especially fighting with her because the fights go on for ages and go around in circles. Once she gets an idea in her head I feel like there is nothing I can say to alter what she is saying, she'll ask the same question, get a valid answer from me, and ask again and again because it's not the answer she wants, and she only wants the answer that has me being guilty of her worst fears at that moment. I feel stressed out even just reliving that to write about it.

The reason I say if she's late with her contribution is that she has told me she'll pay the $20 every Thursday, a couple of times Thursday passed without her paying it and then the next day she'd ask me why I didn't remind her. I said I didn't even remember it, when in reality I just didn't care and knew that if I mentioned anything it could trigger a fight anyway. So I guess that's another example of me lying right there (saying I didn't remember.) Hope you don't tell her or I'll be trouble again! pfffff...... When I say 5% it is only because she wants to contribute $20, and I know I spend roughly $400 a week of my wage which equates to 5% from her, but as I say I really don't need or care about that money and would prefer she keep it, but I just know once something becomes a sore topic for her if I touch on the subject it can spark a fight very easily if I say the wrong thing or if she takes something the wrong way so I go to great lengths to avoid the topic altogether. This is not ideal from me, but I really hate fighting. I can only think of one other woman I dated who was like this, and that was more than a decade ago and lasted about three weeks, so this is really not the kind of thing I'm used to. That woman didn't have trust issues BTW, she was just prone to fly off the handle over small things, when she started yelling at cars while driving on our second date that should have tipped me off that she was a problem, but that's a story for another day.

I am happy for her to get counseling on her own, but the problem there is that she won't tell the counselor anything close to accurate so they probably won't have any clue how to help her or even that anything is wrong (she tells lies! Oh no, double standards exist!) She has been saying some pretty horrible things about me to some of her friends on Facebook and then screen-shotting me the conversations with their responses and the peoples names blocked out. Every time I have had to tell her the responses are invalid because I have been misrepresented so much they don't have any idea what our situation is. She'll say things like "He obsesses over these hoes from his past and wants to take them on dates and is sad he can't hang out with them" when in reality the girl she is usually referring to is someone who used to be a platonic friend and nothing more, but is now blocked and I haven't seen her in 4 months! I never talk about her or even think about her, but these people are left with the impression that I'm taking this girl on dates while dating my gf in some of what I've read. But obviously when these people read her message to them they are telling her to leave me, and I'd do the same if someone sent me that type of message too. So yeah, getting a counselor on her own is fine if she wants to and could help if she was aware she had an issue, but I honestly think the only way she has a chance of getting help is if the counselor hears her point of view and also mine, and is able to give some useful advice. The problem now is my gf, who is only agreeing to go because I said if she didn't we're over, is now viewing this as a challenge to win, so that she can prove that I'm the one who's wrong, and if that's the case I know this probably won't work. She has already started preparing herself for excuses if she hears what she doesn't want to hear, by saying some counselors live slutty impure lives and may agree with what I'm saying, and that she's worried I am going to brainwash the counselor because apparently I'm good at that now too.

I'm so tired of this. I thank anyone reading and giving advice. The more I write this stuff out and read it back the clearer it is that I just need to get out. I'll see how the counseling goes on Friday and report back!

May 30, 2017

This caught my eye:and stop right there. You are basically being put on probation for other people's crimes, right out of the gate.

That she needs to do this simply shows how damaged she is by her past. I guess you've heard that already.

Why you have agreed to bow to her insecurities is a complete mystery to me.

There's nothing but trouble for you here. Cut and run.

Thank you. I know you're right. Sometimes it's just tough when you're not hearing what you want and I've had some amazing times with her, even just a week ago we were madly in love and happy even though so many fights had come before. It's a tough spot, but yeah I don't think I'll be with her by this time next month, and maybe not even by this time next week.

May 30, 2017

The more I write this stuff out and read it back the clearer it is that I just need to get out. I'll see how the counseling goes on Friday and report back!

Some things just can't be fixed.

To the extent I sounded like I was picking on you, I apologize. I was simply trying to point out her side of it.

But you can't be a good BF to her -- nobody can -- because she is so damaged. Until she acknowledges that, she can never heal.

My biggest concern with you is that you didn't run upon hearing these rules. She equates passwords with trust. Her past has prevented her from actually having trust. She's so screwed up that nothing will ever be good enough until she finds out why she was willing to put up with her past & to some extend you. If she had meaningful self esteem the minute your former FI wasn't removed, she should have walked. (Just to clarify, though. I think her rules are ridiculous. They are over the top & more evidence that she is damaged. The only reason I kept harping on them is to show you your own flawed logical and misguided sense of caring when you agreed to them, then broke them).

Lying to keep the peace is an easy way out. Most people have done it. I myself did it over the weekend when I agreed to go to a concert / festival I didn't want to attend & then when asked I said I was happy enough to stay. I really wanted to leave but leaving would have inconvenienced too many other people so I sucked it up. Difference was everybody knew I wasn't thrilled but I was trying to make the best of it. I had an OK time but my husband was thrilled he got to be there & that I tried to accommodate him. Also if I had truly been miserable, I could have done something else including gotten myself a Uber / taxi back to the hotel or even walked. I'm certainly not going to hold it over my husband's head and my lie didn't undercut the foundations of our marriage.

May 30, 2017

long opening posts tell me one thing....you are not willing to accept that you need to get out of this unhealthy relationship and everyone is wrong for saying so. You hope that someone will find at least one detail in all those paragraphs that there would be the key to making this all go away. Sorry to say but you can type 1000 pages, post a 100 new threads, post on other websites, talk to your friends or family, you will still get the same advice.

Have you not noticed that no matter how much you follow her rules, she will always find something else feeding her insecurity? You obey her rules, you enable her insecure behavior. It will never be enough, it will always be a never ending cycle.

Edited May 30, 2017 by smackie9

May 30, 2017

Some things just can't be fixed.

To the extent I sounded like I was picking on you, I apologize. I was simply trying to point out her side of it.

But you can't be a good BF to her -- nobody can -- because she is so damaged. Until she acknowledges that, she can never heal.

My biggest concern with you is that you didn't run upon hearing these rules. She equates passwords with trust. Her past has prevented her from actually having trust. She's so screwed up that nothing will ever be good enough until she finds out why she was willing to put up with her past & to some extend you. If she had meaningful self esteem the minute your former FI wasn't removed, she should have walked. (Just to clarify, though. I think her rules are ridiculous. They are over the top & more evidence that she is damaged. The only reason I kept harping on them is to show you your own flawed logical and misguided sense of caring when you agreed to them, then broke them).

Lying to keep the peace is an easy way out. Most people have done it. I myself did it over the weekend when I agreed to go to a concert / festival I didn't want to attend & then when asked I said I was happy enough to stay. I really wanted to leave but leaving would have inconvenienced too many other people so I sucked it up. Difference was everybody knew I wasn't thrilled but I was trying to make the best of it. I had an OK time but my husband was thrilled he got to be there & that I tried to accommodate him. Also if I had truly been miserable, I could have done something else including gotten myself a Uber / taxi back to the hotel or even walked. I'm certainly not going to hold it over my husband's head and my lie didn't undercut the foundations of our marriage.

Okay thanks, I need to hear various positions so I have appreciated everything you've said, even where you were coming down a bit harder on me. Until a few days ago I hadn't posted on one of these sites and currently I am writing in a few places, and it has given me a tremendous amount of information and perspective which I just didn't have.

May 30, 2017

long opening posts tell me one thing....you are not willing to accept that you need to get out of this unhealthy relationship and everyone is wrong for saying so. You hope that someone will find at least one detail in all those paragraphs that there would be the key to making this all go away. Sorry to say but you can type 1000 pages, post a 100 new threads, post on other websites, talk to your friends or family, you will still get the same advice.

Have you not noticed that no matter how much you follow her rules, she will always find something else feeding her insecurity? You obey her rules, you enable her insecure behavior. It will never be enough, it will always be a never ending cycle.

Yes, I have noticed this and yes you are right it will keep happening. I only made the post long because I wanted to explain both sides of the story as best I could in the hope the advice I get would be correct without requiring people to do too much guesswork. I am actually working towards a point where I will move on I think. Unless something drastic happens when we go for counseling on Friday. By then it'll be about 7 days since I last saw her when in the four months together we've never been apart for that a day or two, I'm also planning to not message her at all until then unless she does first as every conversation has just become a fight because our viewpoints of what is the cause of our issues and what needs to happen to fix things are on opposite ends of the spectrum.

Is there anything I can do to fix this?

Recommended Posts

Sam82

Link to post

Share on other sites

road

Link to post

Share on other sites

Grumpybutfun

Link to post

Share on other sites

smackie9

Link to post

Share on other sites

mikeylo

Link to post

Share on other sites

ExpatInItaly

Link to post

Share on other sites

Redhead14

Link to post

Share on other sites

Downtown

Link to post

Share on other sites

d0nnivain

Link to post

Share on other sites

Sam82

Link to post

Share on other sites

Sam82

Link to post

Share on other sites

Sam82

Link to post

Share on other sites

Sam82

Link to post

Share on other sites

Sam82

Link to post

Share on other sites

Sam82

Link to post

Share on other sites

Downtown

Link to post

Share on other sites

d0nnivain

Link to post

Share on other sites

Sam82

Link to post

Share on other sites

mightycpa

Link to post

Share on other sites

Sam82

Link to post

Share on other sites

Sam82

Link to post

Share on other sites

d0nnivain

Link to post

Share on other sites

smackie9

Link to post

Share on other sites

Sam82

Link to post

Share on other sites

Sam82

Link to post

Share on other sites

What's New

My Activity Streams

More...