My boyfriend is married, and now another guy is in my life [long read]

[lostgirl87]

ClickBoom,

 

I agree with a few things that you've said. Particularly the parts where you defend the relationship you have with him and don't feel it should be diminished to "fake" b/c he's married. A lot of the "advice" you'll get on that part will be coming from BSs who need to discredit the relationship their husbands had with another woman for their own sanity or former OW who really did meet the stereotypical serial cheater who only used her for sex or an ego boost. Nobody can tell you that your relationship with MM is fake or that there aren't real feelings involved b/c the truth is, they don't know. We only get a portion of what your relationship is like and every single situation is different. For example, I don't believe for one second that all affairs aren't based on "real feelings". I don't believe in the "it's not real love, it's limmerance and it's only real love with the spouse". A wedding ring or signed papers does not make emotions more real than in a relationship without those things.

 

Now having said that, your anger towards your MM marital situation is extremely palpable. I get that it's a frustrating situation but please keep in mind that your MM is not obligated to stay with his virgin wife. Something is keeping him there and I'm almost positive that she is not threatening his life to keep him married to her. It is not your place to be this angry with the wife for her issues. If he has a problem, he needs to do something. And I'm not saying he doesn't have feelings for you or that this is all fake, but I am saying that you can't revolve your life around a man that is choosing to stay committed to someone else. You can't let other good men go b/c you love and want MM IF he is not willing to divorce and actually be with you. Continue to live your life, date, focus on YOU. Let MM figure out his home life and if he wants to make a life with you, he will. If he doesn't, he will continue to make excuses or tell you what you want to hear to keep you in his life but I'll tell you right now: being 2nd place will never be enough. You will hate your life and you will grow to resent him. Don't waste your youth and your precious time for someone who can't man up and do what he reds to do to be with you. More importantly, he should do things for himself. For his happiness. I know right now you can't see it but I know you don't really want a man who just allows things to happen to him. You want a man who can take charge of his life and take action.

 

I don't mean to attack you nor do I mean to diminish your relationship with MM. I'm only telling you to not put all your eggs into a basket that is already "owned" by someone else. I wish you well!

[aileD]

Dude, are you serious? Like in FIVE years, knowing she had psychological issue, the very first time she accepts to go to a consultant is when the walls of her marriage are closing in? When her husband threatens to leave her for good? When he reaches the height of unhappiness? I mean, don't you think it's JUST A BIT selfish to marry someone and take for granted that he's gonna accept that you don't want sex in your life? Considering they talked a lot about it, and that the only excuse she could hide behind was the religious topic? Like, yeah, I'm sorry, but I still want to punch her in the face. Because it was her precise duty to at least try to solve her problem. Before they took this step. And when she realized she still suffered from this thing, even after the marriage, she should have accepted the offer to get some help. Not dragging someone into your spyral of problems and pretend everything is fine just because you still share supper and friends.

 

None of this is your business .

 

He chose to marry her. He's choosing to go to counseling which despite what he tells you is a fight to save it. He's not leaving her.

 

You need to look at actions....not words.

 

The only action that counts is where he lays his head at night and .....it's not next to you.

 

Maybe it will work out when he's single. But he's not. Let him free to deal with HIS wife and HIS marriage.

 

If it's meant to be, it will be.

[freengreen]

I hope he gave you an A in the class....

Yeah the A is all over the place.

 

OP, are you sure that he feels this intense about you as you do?. You are shielding him so well, will he do it for you?. On your question, a single person has much more to offer fair and square than a MM. So from me,, chosing a single guy gets a thumbs up.

Edited June 4, 2017 by freengreen

[whichwayisup]

I think you should talk to his wife, hear her side of the story. Maybe what he's saying is true and there's no sex. If that is the case, maybe she'll agree to an open marriage and he can continue to have an affair with you, but more open. Or are you looking for him to divorce and then marry you?

 

You never answered my question, but now after reading she's apparently still a virgin (if that is true) I assume they don't have children. Did they adopt any kids?

[Bufo]

I hate to pour more rain on your parade, but have you spent any time thinking why aa healthy man with anything approaching a normal sex drive would spend years in a pseudo marriage?

 

You might ask him if he's ever taken a student lover before. He'll probably deny it. Then ask him how he was able to resist all those years. He'll tell you you are very special. Persist in questioning his history. Don't be satisfied with words you want to hear. Tell him you can accept his past, but cannot accept any lies or half truths.

 

Maybe it doesn't matter to you that instead of being Ms. Right, you may be simply Ms, Right Now.

 

His jealousy isn't caused by love,'it results from fear of losing Ms. Right Now.

 

You'll never have another selection of men like you do now unless you join the military. Don't waste the opportunity with MM.

Edited June 4, 2017 by Bufo
Thumbs too big for iPhone 5 screen

[deadsoul]

OP, you came here asking for advice...

 

If you want to find out if he's telling the truth, and since he's told his wife about you, then the best way to solve this is to have a conversation with her. His reaction when you tell him you are going to do that may tell you a lot about his honesty or not. Even if he acts like it's no big deal, still follow through for your own piece of mind.

 

Honestly? He sounds like a lot of drama, but if that's your thing... then nothing anyone says here will help you. You know him, we don't.

 

Good luck. Personally, the other guy sounds like a way better choice, but he is less drama and less excitement, so maybe the true matter is finding out what you really want and whether being someone's side piece is enough for you. If he's truly going to leave his wife to be with you, then he can take those steps and if you're not attached at that time, then you guys can start something. Saying that to him will give you your true answer as well. But you don't want to be that girl he leaves his wife for.

[BaileyB]

A lot of the "advice" you'll get on that part will be coming from BSs who need to discredit the relationship their husbands had with another woman for their own sanity or former OW who really did meet the stereotypical serial cheater who only used her for sex or an ego boost.

 

No. Some advice comes from women who have the clear perspective that it is absolutely ludicrous for any woman to think that another woman's husband is their "boyfriend."

Edited June 4, 2017 by BaileyB

[lostgirl87]

No. Some advice comes from women who have the clear perspective that it is absolutely ludicrous for any woman to think that another woman's husband is their "boyfriend."

Simmer down. I didn't say all the comments were bad or wrong or anything like that. "A lot" is not the same as "all".

 

However, the fact that a person is married does not automatically mean he or she doesnt have a relationship outside that marriage that could involve real feelings. I never said it was right or wrong.

Edited June 4, 2017 by lostgirl87

[aileD]

Simmer down. I didn't say all the comments were bad or wrong or anything like that. "A lot" is not the same as "all".

 

However, the fact that a person is married does not automatically mean he or she doesnt have a relationship outside that marriage that could involve real feelings. I never said it was right or wrong.

 

The point is, it IS wrong.

 

I think it's good to get the issue of compartmentalism out of the way. The way you do that is by not telling yourself that someone else's HUSBAND is your boyfriend. If you consider him your boyfriend- that comes along with a bunch of "normal" connotations that are NOT normal in the context of an affair. And you start to overlook reality.

 

So I always point out to OW (and mm), to try to see the reality of the situation . Call him a married man; a cheater, an affair partner....call yourself the other woman or mistress or girl on the side, call it an affair-not a relationship, because these things are truths. And the sooner people wake up to the truth, the better for themselves and everyone involved.

 

Fantasy feeds affairs. Regardless if the feelings are real to the people in the Affair, it's still an affair

 

And I say that as a BS but I don't think I'm biased or giving bad advice because of it. It's just the truth. It's fact. Actions Trump words and titles. Affairs thrive on fantasy and secrecy. That's why exposing works go either halt an affair or accelerate divorce.

[lostgirl87]

The point is, it IS wrong.

 

I think it's good to get the issue of compartmentalism out of the way. The way you do that is by not telling yourself that someone else's HUSBAND is your boyfriend. If you consider him your boyfriend- that comes along with a bunch of "normal" connotations that are NOT normal in the context of an affair. And you start to overlook reality.

 

So I always point out to OW (and mm), to try to see the reality of the situation . Call him a married man; a cheater, an affair partner....call yourself the other woman or mistress or girl on the side, call it an affair-not a relationship, because these things are truths. And the sooner people wake up to the truth, the better for themselves and everyone involved.

 

Fantasy feeds affairs. Regardless if the feelings are real to the people in the Affair, it's still an affair

 

And I say that as a BS but I don't think I'm biased or giving bad advice because of it. It's just the truth. It's fact. Actions Trump words and titles. Affairs thrive on fantasy and secrecy. That's why exposing works go either halt an affair or accelerate divorce.

I'm not even touching the subject of it being right or wrong b/c I'm not judging anyone. I am speaking to the OP and trying to understand her position and her feelings. Whether it's right or wrong isn't the point in this situation. If she were asking "is being with MM right or wrong?" then we could discuss that.

 

You are entitled to feel any way you want. But another reality is you don't know the relationship or dynamic of any 2 other people. Call it an affair, call it a relationship. I don't care what you call it but you don't know their facts. And I can speak for my relationship with MM, we met each other's friends, went on dates, and discussed and shared finances at times. We also spoke to each other about our every day life, advised each other, consoled each other and so much more. It's not as easy as saying "it's all fantasy and fun" but that also doesn't mean my relationship with him is the same as his marriage. It IS different. the marriage is obviously based on a lot more. But my relationship with him? Yes, that's real.

 

Is it wrong? Morally, yes. I'm not denying that. But like I said, that's not the point I was making. If you read the rest of my initial comment, I also said that his actions ahow a preference to the wife and the marriage. That if OP wants a chance at a life with this guy, he has to figure out his home life first and then if he's single he can be with her b/c as of now, he "belongs" to his wife. Obviously i don't mean that literally seeing as how a human being is not the property of anyone else...but he is someone else's husband.

Edited June 4, 2017 by lostgirl87

[mrs rubble]

I think you should continue pursuing the MM. He sounds like a complete dork, he cries all the time, sleeps with his students and cheats on his wife. What a winner!!

You don't seem to believe anyone here that he's lying to you, even the men who've done exactly what this guy is doing to you. You don't seem to have any respect for the institution of marriage. You have the urge to punch his wife in the face, you two sound as nasty as each other. Good luck you two are a perfect match.

The single guy sounds waaaay too normal and devoid of drama and nastiness to be a suitable match.

[Vivir]

I really appreciated your sharing. Thank you. I honestly can relate to what you're writing, but my fear is mostly about what is happening with the MM. I fear he could be a lost chance, I fear I could regret it. I feel he could be the quiet life everyone wants to have at one point in life. I feel I could easily settle with him. But at the same time I'm not sure I'm already there... He loves me deeply, and instead of being happy about, or feel any relief, I am scared as hell. I feel pressure, I feel insecurity. The other guy is lovely, is kind, he's really trying hard to show me how things could work beetwen us and how much he cares about me. And he's exactly the other side of the coin. He represents all the opposite of settlement, but in a good and relieving way.

 

But in all of this mess, the MM is not letting me my time or room to breathe and think properly, and I don't wanna dump him because I'm on this emotional hell ride and I'm just crapping my pants over what could or couldn't be.. I'm not sure I really explained myself...

 

 

When your MM married, he made a choice. Based on his own decisions, he took himself off the market -even if temporarily- to start something real with someone else.

 

You say he loves you deeply. This may be. But OP, how would you feel if you were to find out, without a doubt, that your MM was playing you like a fiddle? I mean, what if you bugged his car and listened to his side of a phone conversation with his wife and it were the opposite of what he tells you. What if he talked to himself about how foolish you must be to believe anything he just said to you. What if you learned his tears were crocodile tears?

 

What if you could see video of them in their home? This might be sadistic. However, I have gone there. I can be super trusting and naive and overthink everything. One day, I thought, I should turn all of my "positive" thoughts into their antitheses... If he tried to sell me on a divorce on the horizon, I would imagine the exact opposite: a loving husband who comes home to kiss his beautiful wife on the mouth and grab her ass as she walks away smiling... when I am crying because he isn't with me at 5AM on a Sunday morning, at that exact same time, in a house he owns with both their names on the deed, he makes love with her and has completely forgotten that I exist at all. He remembers me once the weekend is over and he needs someone to stroke his ego, listen to his many complaints, and perform acts his trophy wife won't.

 

What if you found out months later that during a lull in your A he pulled a disappearing act because they had a baby? He would carve out 30 minutes a week to see you, so you could serve his needs and then he would be outta there, burning rubber as he peeled out of the parking lot.

 

What if this was your MM?

 

I really wonder what you would see if you had a crystal ball and could see into his truth.

 

Or maybe... you're right. He is actually confused... Honey, I have enough confusion by myself. This is an unattractive quality in a partner, trust me.

Maybe his tears are real... What do I know?

 

This A is likely to run its course. Until he gets bored and finds your replacement, you get fed up and leave, or his wife finds out.

 

I'm really sorry you're in this mess. And it is a mess, because you cannot be with the one you love. I hope you can (and want to) eventually find your way out, because you deserve better.

 

x

[William]

Moderation stopping by to remind members that responses shall be topical, respectful and most importantly remembering that English is not the thread starter's first language (they stated that up front and we confirmed some other details) and that LoveShack.org is an international site and cultures around the world vary markedly regarding marriage, affairs and personal behavior. I hope this gentle reminder will be sufficient. Back to the discussion!

[BaileyB]

Good luck in whatever you decide OP.

 

Continue the drama with the married man. Or, date the other guy who is stable and available, wants to date you, and seems to care about you. Your decision.

Edited June 5, 2017 by BaileyB

[ClickcClickBoomBoom]

I just wanted to thank everyone who is reading my topic and commenting here. I'm gonna take my time this afternoon to answer all the unaswered questions you asked me in the past days.

 

I also wanted to say that all of this is happening NOW. As I write to you, this thing is evolving. So I ask everyone who's reading my topic not tu rush to conclusions! I may appear confused or excessive or rude, and events and facts may look confusing and in a lot of contraddiction as well. But my feelings, status, my own thinking is changing by the hour. I'm here also to give myself the chance to have a comparison to other opinions and stories. So please, don't rush your judgment, because me myself I'm coming to acknowledge new stuff by the day and to live and feel even more. I didn't open my topic with "Once upon a time...": my last text from the MM is from 13minutes ago, while I'm going to see the single guy in half an hour. Everything is happening right now, so please, be patience. I'm not trying to fool anyone. I feel confused and I'm in need of clarification. That's all. Thanks anyway for the efforts you all are putting in here. I really appreciate it.

D.

[Syre17]

ClickcClickBoomBoom,

 

My own journey with my AP lasted for a very long time.

 

I know in my case, when I was "single" I passed on some pretty amazing single women for my AP, as we'd always be drawn back together at some point. I regret not letting myself get more involved with someone who could actually love and give themselves to me completely.

 

As with your family, mine is very non judgmental (my AP met my family) and know my whole story. One thing they've said to me is that I wasted too much of my life and time on someone who couldn't give me their full attention and they're right. I agree with a lot of the "actions speak louder than words" comments. Words and promises are one thing, but actual action is what matters, i.e., the married AP actually leaving, filing for divorce, etc. One of the best pieces of advise from my therapist was to set a timeline, say six months for my AP to get it together and get out to be with me. Of course my AP and I blew past those timelines over and over and looking back, I wish I had stuck to it/them as it would have saved me from a lot of misery and heartache.

 

Only you know how you both feel about each other. I'd hate for you to get sucked into something protracted as I did...even when it seems that the other person is the only one in the world for you and vice versa.

 

Good luck to you and keep us posted...

[BTDT2012]

Since he says his wife knows, my suggestion is that you call her and confirm his story.

[somanymistakes]

A thing to consider - even if everything he's told you is completely true (which most people here won't believe) this is still going to be a miserable, painful, drawn-out mess.

 

I trust my MM completely. I don't think he's capable of maintaining a lie. He's also kind of incapable of making a decision which is why we're caught in limbo forever. It's my fault too, I'm contributing to it, but there's always going to be another crisis, another disaster, another reason why he can't leave her. If nothing else because his wife knows his weak spots just as well as I do,[]

 

In the same way, if your MM is completely truthful about his wife and his situation, what does that say about him and his ability to deal with complicated situations and make decisions that need to be made? What sort of relationship can you have together? If he hasn't left her, after all this time, do you think he really will? Especially if she 'tries' and plays on his sympathy? If he's telling the truth, then he's probably exactly the sort of sympathetic, conflict-avoidant person that is going to find it almost impossible to really close the door on her.

 

I can't tell anyone not to pursue a love that is going to be painful. I can only try to make you think about what might happen.

Edited June 6, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Redacted threadjack start point

[aileD]

I trust my MM completely. I don't think he's capable of maintaining a lie

 

Wait..what? Isn't he capable of lying and maintaining it by being in affair with you?

 

(Can't remember your full story, does his wife know?)

[somanymistakes]

His wife knows, he told her himself.

[aileD]

His wife knows, he told her himself.

 

And you've confirmed this with her?

[ClickcClickBoomBoom]

I think you should talk to his wife, hear her side of the story. Maybe what he's saying is true and there's no sex. If that is the case, maybe she'll agree to an open marriage and he can continue to have an affair with you, but more open. Or are you looking for him to divorce and then marry you?

 

You never answered my question, but now after reading she's apparently still a virgin (if that is true) I assume they don't have children. Did they adopt any kids?

 

She's very conservative, she would never agree to something like that. Plus, that's not what I'm looking for anymore. Yeah, sex is great but I'm tired of the sharing. I'm tired of sharing the normal things of the everyday life. My sudden decreasing of feelings is mostly coming from this.

-

No, they don't have any kids. They tried to adopt a puppy dog last year, but they couldn't manage it. She was going on a wave of depression at the time, and she wasn't able to take proper care of the puppy, she went crazy when the puppy cried at night and so on, so they gave it back.

 

I hate to pour more rain on your parade, but have you spent any time thinking why aa healthy man with anything approaching a normal sex drive would spend years in a pseudo marriage?

 

You might ask him if he's ever taken a student lover before. He'll probably deny it. Then ask him how he was able to resist all those years. He'll tell you you are very special. Persist in questioning his history. Don't be satisfied with words you want to hear. Tell him you can accept his past, but cannot accept any lies or half truths.

.

 

Maybe I've not been clear myself. We're at the point that he comes at my house like this place was a therapist office. I sit in the bed (usually) and he walks nervously around the room, talking about her, about his stomach aches, his growing anxiety and feelings. He's not putting on any show, he's growing desperate by the day, and he tries to clarify himself. So, as you can see, I don't even need anymore to ask things. We used to speak a lot before the feelings were involved, and he trusts my advices. At this point I only want what is better for him, I don't care whether it's gonna be me, the wife, or another woman.

 

The point is, it IS wrong.

 

I think it's good to get the issue of compartmentalism out of the way. The way you do that is by not telling yourself that someone else's HUSBAND is your boyfriend. If you consider him your boyfriend- that comes along with a bunch of "normal" connotations that are NOT normal in the context of an affair. And you start to overlook reality.

 

So I always point out to OW (and mm), to try to see the reality of the situation . Call him a married man; a cheater, an affair partner....call yourself the other woman or mistress or girl on the side, call it an affair-not a relationship, because these things are truths. And the sooner people wake up to the truth, the better for themselves and everyone involved.

 

Fantasy feeds affairs. Regardless if the feelings are real to the people in the Affair, it's still an affair

 

And I say that as a BS but I don't think I'm biased or giving bad advice because of it. It's just the truth. It's fact. Actions Trump words and titles. Affairs thrive on fantasy and secrecy. That's why exposing works go either halt an affair or accelerate divorce.

 

Have you ever stopped for a second and think that maybe YES, a lot of things more than sex are involved between me and this man? That maybe call myself his girlfriend is not something made up to boost my ego but it actually gives a more honest picture of the thing in general? I didn't go into many details in my OP, but I can assure everyone this thing is NOT about the sex. We share a lot of things, there are emotional bonds. And no, I'm not imagining this out of my "stuck in Wonderland mind". It happened like this, THIS is the situation rn.

 

I think you should continue pursuing the MM. He sounds like a complete dork, he cries all the time, sleeps with his students and cheats on his wife. What a winner!!

You don't seem to believe anyone here that he's lying to you, even the men who've done exactly what this guy is doing to you. You don't seem to have any respect for the institution of marriage. You have the urge to punch his wife in the face, you two sound as nasty as each other. Good luck you two are a perfect match.

The single guy sounds waaaay too normal and devoid of drama and nastiness to be a suitable match.

 

Well, sorry to say, but that sounded a bit salty to me.

I came here to hear different opinions, so I am IN FACT opened to ackowledge different perspectives. But I also think I know more about my situation than anyone else in this world, or forum.

Yes, I have the urge to punch this woman in the face, because of the things he has told me about her. And even here, I sided more than once with her. I really did. I shielded her when he was too nasty, I gave him advice to save what he had with her. Thing is, she is outcoming to be a manipulative piece of crap. She is a child on her very inside, and in a worrying way. She is putting him on the road of maaany guilty trips, she's starting to put a lot of pressures, she's even looking for the fight everytime she can. And I'm sorry, but my very personal opinion is that she lost her privileges a lot of time ago. She has been hell lucky to have a man who has kept his pants tight for FIVE goddamn years. That has fought his needs and desires to "give her her time". A lot of women cannot tell the same, myself included. Is not always nice and shining between people, not everyone will always respects your needs and times. So instead of appreciating this and put herself in a mood where MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, she should analyze better what she is and what she has done, she's putting all the load on his shoulders. Last nice thing he had to hear is that he's probably too "big" for her. Come on, man, come on. I'm no animal but she's deserving that punch everyday more.

And I'm sorry, you're wrong again. The single guy doesn't represent normality, since he put himself in a situation where everything was already hard and complicated from the start. And even if I will choose him in the end, it's not gonna be all cream and pie.

 

Wait..what? Isn't he capable of lying and maintaining it by being in affair with you?

 

(Can't remember your full story, does his wife know?)

 

Being able to mantain lies doesn't actually mean that the person lies all the time about everything. He's mantaining a lie in a particular context and situation, because maybe there are things more important to preserve. I wish we could always be as transparent and clear as an empty glass, but it's not always the case. You have to look at the big picture. I trust my MM too, because yes, he's been a liar to her, but for reasons. Because this affair came and questioned many things he firmly believe in before. So it's not like easy peasy lemon squeezy let's rush and tell everything to everyone for the sake of Truth. Families are involved, feelings, and human beings are at the stake here.

 

Now, to everyone who has asked why I don't speak directly to the wife:

 

I've asked that to him many times, from the start. That's why I like to understand things, even if sometimes the road to do is is getting involved in crazy stuff. He refuses to let me speak to her, he just says she wouldn't understand properly. Plus, as I said before, she's the childish kind of person who just switch to another room or gets out of the house when the discussion is leading to something she doesn't want to hear. So I don't even think she would like to hear a single thing from me at all.

[ClickcClickBoomBoom]

ClickBoom,

 

I agree with a few things that you've said. Particularly the parts where you defend the relationship you have with him and don't feel it should be diminished to "fake" b/c he's married. A lot of the "advice" you'll get on that part will be coming from BSs who need to discredit the relationship their husbands had with another woman for their own sanity or former OW who really did meet the stereotypical serial cheater who only used her for sex or an ego boost. Nobody can tell you that your relationship with MM is fake or that there aren't real feelings involved b/c the truth is, they don't know. We only get a portion of what your relationship is like and every single situation is different. For example, I don't believe for one second that all affairs aren't based on "real feelings". I don't believe in the "it's not real love, it's limmerance and it's only real love with the spouse". A wedding ring or signed papers does not make emotions more real than in a relationship without those things.

 

Now having said that, your anger towards your MM marital situation is extremely palpable. I get that it's a frustrating situation but please keep in mind that your MM is not obligated to stay with his virgin wife. Something is keeping him there and I'm almost positive that she is not threatening his life to keep him married to her. It is not your place to be this angry with the wife for her issues. If he has a problem, he needs to do something. And I'm not saying he doesn't have feelings for you or that this is all fake, but I am saying that you can't revolve your life around a man that is choosing to stay committed to someone else. You can't let other good men go b/c you love and want MM IF he is not willing to divorce and actually be with you. Continue to live your life, date, focus on YOU. Let MM figure out his home life and if he wants to make a life with you, he will. If he doesn't, he will continue to make excuses or tell you what you want to hear to keep you in his life but I'll tell you right now: being 2nd place will never be enough. You will hate your life and you will grow to resent him. Don't waste your youth and your precious time for someone who can't man up and do what he reds to do to be with you. More importantly, he should do things for himself. For his happiness. I know right now you can't see it but I know you don't really want a man who just allows things to happen to him. You want a man who can take charge of his life and take action.

 

I don't mean to attack you nor do I mean to diminish your relationship with MM. I'm only telling you to not put all your eggs into a basket that is already "owned" by someone else. I wish you well!

 

I was looking for the private message option on this forum but I wasn't able to find any, so.. I just wanted to thank you properly for your words. It feels good to read that someone is actually willing to believe that is not just a bunch of bulls*it and lies and sex in a hidden nasty room. Thank you again, I really appreciate what you wrote.

[reboot]

he just says she wouldn't understand properly

 

I think we finally found something he said that all of us can believe is true.

[Steen719]

I think we finally found something he said that all of us can believe is true.

 

I always think of this quote from The Big Chill when I see this kind of steadfastness.

 

Michael: I don't know anyone who could get through the day without two or three juicy rationalizations. They're more important than sex.

Sam Weber: Ah, come on. Nothing's more important than sex.

Michael: Oh yeah? Ever gone a week without a rationalization?