Why do I get a sense that a lot of women feel I'm beneath them?

[elaine567]

If the OP is in retail that's a definite reason enough to kick OLD to the kerb, retail usually means you get to meet all sorts of people.

 

I said that once before to him I think, if I didn't actually say it, I definitely thought it.

[NJ123]

Unfortunately such is life. People will always and should always strive to get the best they can and if the best you can get isn't what you want then you have choices

 

 

1: Better yourself to be what you want

2: Resign yourself to what life is, enjoy what you can, enjoy what interactions you have and the attention you get.

 

 

I have been reading your post for a long and I think you and I in some respects are on the same page, just going about this differently. The issue is how to realise you inherently don't appeal to people and then reconcile what you what to what you can get.

 

 

My sincere advice to you is walk away from OLD, I found it and still do find like the likes of Tinder quite soul destroying, if you want this you need to formulate real life objectives and plans, find things that make you feel good because all OLD is going to do is drag you down. Each person has positive attributes but for me personally I spent so long on OLD that I forgot what my positive attributes were, yes I still CANNOT find anyone I like but I don't spend 24/7 feeling worthless. You need to get off OLD to re establish self worth.

 

 

You need to trust me on one thing and I am right about this, just a modicum of attention from someone you do like or find appealing can make a difference, sure she isn't sleeping with you or going out with you but a smile, a short conversation can add value to your life, she won know it but you will feel good about the interaction. OLD can NEVER give you that because you never truly see a personality merely a collection of poorly written prose, much of it embellished to sound better than the reality.

 

Yeah, I'm considering deleting it really soon. Feel like it's affecting me even as I'm in work thinking about it. It's like I'm starting to resent women a bit & even attractive women I interact with at my job I'm startinbg to get negative feelings about since it's like the only reason they interact with me is because they have to. If I wasn't working at my job they would pretend I don't exist & it's destroying me.

[NJ123]

Did you ever take that course you said you were gong to take or are you still working in retail?

 

Yeah sadly I didn't. I really need to go back I just seriously can never figure out what I want to take up. I have to do something though. I can't stay in this position I'm in but some issues always get in the way.

[NJ123]

If the OP is in retail that's a definite reason enough to kick OLD to the kerb, retail usually means you get to meet all sorts of people.

 

What do you mean meet all sorts of people? I can't ask out customers at my job. And I actually did message one I happened to see on online dating & of course she replied once than never again. I feel it could be my job that's a big part of why women are turned off. They don't want to go out with a guy that's not making a lot of money.

[SoleMate]

Parity in looks does not translate to parity overall. The fact is, a woman who is equally attractive as you (7's shall we say) will value an opportunity to have sex with you at a flat zero. She has what you want, not visa versa. You have to bring something else she considers valuable to the table... she can get sex where you can't get a drink of water. If she's horny and ready to sex someone, she'll be seeking a top specimen, not parity.

You've got the basic idea right, and I'd add the nuance that may be just what the OP needs. As Sal says, a 7 woman does not need the 7 man as a quick 'n' dirty sex partner....because she can get 9&10 rated men as quick 'n' dirty sex partners. However, she does need the 7 man as a devoted monogamous boyfriend because she probably does not get many offers from the 9-10 man for this. If you are able to be that bf, and do a good job at it, and can display it to women, then you have "goods" to bring to the "marketplace" that should bring in the "buyers".

 

The catch is that it's difficult to display in OLD what a devoted BF you'd be. Maybe try it in the narrative. And avoid the gross cliches about how you want to "pamper your woman" and shower her with rose petals and crapola like that. Try something truly authentic that addresses what women are really looking for, in terms that are kind, tasteful, respectful, and sane. (As to what women want, try asking on LS!)

[elaine567]

Yeah sadly I didn't. I really need to go back I just seriously can never figure out what I want to take up. I have to do something though. I can't stay in this position I'm in but some issues always get in the way.

 

If you want to raise your value to women then you need to take a course that will land you a higher paying job and a job which will improve your self esteem.

Women can be turned on by men who are passionate about something that pays little, but as you seem undecided then chose something that will lead to bigger things.

[preraph]

So, women don't want sex. And if they want it, it's for the purpose of procreation only. Did I understand that correctly? Online dating also isn't about relationships or the need for attention, right?

 

Women want sex, but they aren't as desperate for it on a day-to-day basis as men are, so they wait it out until they find someone who they are at least attracted to physically or has something going for them. Now I'm talking in general. There are people all over the curve on this. I have an ex-friend who is a married sex addict bipolar narcissist. So she's as ruthless about getting sex as a nonmentally ill man is.

 

And women are very sexy and sensual with the right man. But they are not generally so driven and desperate that they will take whatever is handy rather than do without. If it's just sex they want, it will be some physically attractive guy. Most are wanting THE guy, commitment and respect and not to be insulted by getting cheated on or by being expected to perform like a trashy porn star, and spin their wheels endlessly trying to find THAT guy, but that is the one that is very hard to find, the one they are physically attracted to who also has integrity. And contrary to what some guys think, that guy isn't more likely to be less attractive. Less attractive guys, if their integrity is not intact, will be even bigger dogs than the 10s if they ever get a chance because they're some mixture of hungry and entitled and bitter.

 

One other thing I will point out is perspective. Men think they're above average if they have nothing but a good body because they think body is as important to women as men, like the most important thing. It's not usually. What guys think is a handsome man and what women do is the difference between Arnold Schwarzenegger and Johnny Depp, and it's apparent in a lot of the media out there with weird greasy looking ripped guys coupled up in perfume ads with supermodel women.

 

The saving grace between the sexes is that there is still an "X" factor that if you're lucky may come into play, which is down to individual taste and the combined experiences of one's entire lifetime that influence their choices. This is the factor can make a pretty girl find a particular average guy more attractive than is objectively merited because he has a warm quality that reminds her of her favorite uncle as a child or the professor who inspired her in college, or he just has a manner she understands because it fits in with her upbringing -- and the reverse is true with guys as well. But you need to be in person when you meet those people in order to see that. And that's what you lose in OLD.

[telemakus]

It seems that you don't have a fundamental understanding of sexual economics. What it comes down to is, they've got it, and you want it. You're a buyer in a seller's market... and these women, who you consider yourself on par with in terms of looks, are not impressed with the offer.

 

They can afford to be choosy, and in fact from an evolutionary perspective, it's their job to optimize the gene pool, eliminate sub-standard males from reproducing. They do this by a sort of reverse auction process... they start the bidding high and lower the price slowly, incrementally, and only as much as absolutely necessary.

 

Eggs are rare and valuable, and sperm has no value at all... any reasonably symmetrical woman could get laid ten times a day in the parking lot outside of the grocery store if she were giving it away. They aren't looking for parity in terms of looks as you presume, and they're not altruistic or sympathetic. They're looking for the absolute best offer in terms of genes and resources.

 

So, while you're thinking that your self-ascribed 7 rating qualifies you to mate with a 7 female... they're probably thinking you're more like a 5, and they're only looking for men in the 9.5 to 10 range regardless. Your options are a) keep wishing and hoping that some woman will recognize your inherent value, b) lower your standards until you find a willing seller, or c) increase your offer by acquiring wealth and status and displaying it ostentatiously.

 

Largely right though the female's job isn't to eliminate sub standard males from the gene-pool, only to eliminate it from their offspring and at a stretch that of their their close relatives.

[Withoutaqueen]

Also, I sometimes get messages from women but there's no physical attraction whatsoever to them.

 

HOLY CRAP. I never get any message from women I never messaged on dating sites. I wish I had that problem even if they were "not attractive".

 

But yeah I reply to women with very appropriate messages, I even mention things from their profile. No answer.

[Withoutaqueen]

Your question and the answer to it are in bold.

To many conceited people in this world I tell you. If I had money I build a cyborg woman I can program just for me.

[preraph]

I think it will come to that. And women will make a cuddly studly cyborg man and then do test tube babies out of a catalog, I guess.

[Withoutaqueen]

Your problem is online dating. A man's stock goes down drastically on there. Too many men messaging too few women. Simple supply and demand. If you are a 7 in the real world, you are likely a 4 or a 5 online. Most ladies that are 7's like you are getting messages from flaky, ghosting, use em for sex, player type guys who happen to be a 9 or 10. The ladies aren't all that interested in you, because even better looking guys are trying to get with them.

 

They don't realize how many choices they have. They always want superattractive men and they treat them like crap and then wonder why. If they "lower" their standards they adversely increase the quality of their relationships.

But that kind of reverse psychology is too good to work.

[Withoutaqueen]

It seems that you don't have a fundamental understanding of sexual economics. What it comes down to is, they've got it, and you want it. You're a buyer in a seller's market... and these women, who you consider yourself on par with in terms of looks, are not impressed with the offer.

 

They can afford to be choosy, and in fact from an evolutionary perspective, it's their job to optimize the gene pool, eliminate sub-standard males from reproducing. They do this by a sort of reverse auction process... they start the bidding high and lower the price slowly, incrementally, and only as much as absolutely necessary.

 

Eggs are rare and valuable, and sperm has no value at all... any reasonably symmetrical woman could get laid ten times a day in the parking lot outside of the grocery store if she were giving it away. They aren't looking for parity in terms of looks as you presume, and they're not altruistic or sympathetic. They're looking for the absolute best offer in terms of genes and resources.

 

So, while you're thinking that your self-ascribed 7 rating qualifies you to mate with a 7 female... they're probably thinking you're more like a 5, and they're only looking for men in the 9.5 to 10 range regardless. Your options are a) keep wishing and hoping that some woman will recognize your inherent value, b) lower your standards until you find a willing seller, or c) increase your offer by acquiring wealth and status and displaying it ostentatiously.

 

 

However when I go on online dating I at times target the "less attractive" women and trying to merely start a conversation, same result. But I think all women think they are more attractive than they really are.

[CptInsano]

I was actually responding to Salparadise in a slightly facetious manner, so please bear with me.

 

Women want sex, but they aren't as desperate for it on a day-to-day basis as men are, so they wait it out until they find someone who they are at least attracted to physically or has something going for them. Now I'm talking in general. There are people all over the curve on this. I have an ex-friend who is a married sex addict bipolar narcissist. So she's as ruthless about getting sex as a nonmentally ill man is.

 

I agree with the above, wholeheartedly.

 

And women are very sexy and sensual with the right man. But they are not generally so driven and desperate that they will take whatever is handy rather than do without. If it's just sex they want, it will be some physically attractive guy. Most are wanting THE guy, commitment and respect and not to be insulted by getting cheated on or by being expected to perform like a trashy porn star, and spin their wheels endlessly trying to find THAT guy, but that is the one that is very hard to find, the one they are physically attracted to who also has integrity.

In my experience it doesn't have to be THE guy, but somebody who they trust to a certain degree. It took me a while with my first girlfriend to realize that she had really just wanted just sex, and I more of less coaxed her into a relationship, which was contrary to my understanding of women back then. The key point IMHO is that the women trust you as a man, and the woman is by no means always looking for a committed relationship.

 

Or to put a fine point on it: The shortest time between me meeting a woman and having sex with her is about 2 hours. I'm not THAT good-looking, and there is no way that she considered me to be THE guy in that short of a time frame.

 

And contrary to what some guys think, that guy isn't more likely to be less attractive. Less attractive guys, if their integrity is not intact, will be even bigger dogs than the 10s if they ever get a chance because they're some mixture of hungry and entitled and bitter.

Agreed.

 

One other thing I will point out is perspective. Men think they're above average if they have nothing but a good body because they think body is as important to women as men, like the most important thing. It's not usually.

That strongly depends on the type of woman. But yes, the body is in many cases not the deciding part, but rather the face and the hair. If you are ever around a really attractive guy in that respect and see how women react, it is both an amusing and sobering experience.

 

What guys think is a handsome man and what women do is the difference between Arnold Schwarzenegger and Johnny Depp, and it's apparent in a lot of the media out there with weird greasy looking ripped guys coupled up in perfume ads with supermodel women.

I'm not sure the comparison is ideal, because Arnold is somewhat self-depreciating and funny, but I agree on the whole idea: The concept of what men and what women think is an attractive male body varies greatly.

 

The saving grace between the sexes is that there is still an "X" factor that if you're lucky may come into play, which is down to individual taste and the combined experiences of one's entire lifetime that influence their choices. This is the factor can make a pretty girl find a particular average guy more attractive than is objectively merited because he has a warm quality that reminds her of her favorite uncle as a child or the professor who inspired her in college, or he just has a manner she understands because it fits in with her upbringing -- and the reverse is true with guys as well. But you need to be in person when you meet those people in order to see that. And that's what you lose in OLD.

Agreed. IRL puts the emphasis more on courage, conversational skills, and just being interesting, rather than than the emphasis on looks, even though there are minimum standards that are non-negotiable for many women. But IRL you have a chance to connect with a woman even though you may not be her type physically, that is true.

[NJ123]

Something odd has been happening tonight. Been actually talking to 2 women at once. They both have pretty faces but they're not my ideal body type. I'm just seeing how it goes though. Might be my first time ever talking to two women at once though online dating. I guess I can't really complain much.

[telemakus]

Something odd has been happening tonight. Been actually talking to 2 women at once. They both have pretty faces but they're not my ideal body type. I'm just seeing how it goes though. Might be my first time ever talking to two women at once though online dating. I guess I can't really complain much.

 

If the body type you usually go for is slimmer than they are then add 2 dress sizes onto what you see.

 

Universal law of OLD: with men subtract 2 inches in height; with women add 2 dress sizes.

[jay1983]

If you're as attractive as you say, your profile and pic are probably not on par. I get lots attention go back and forth with a lot of girls. Meeting in person is another story.

[NJ123]

If you're as attractive as you say, your profile and pic are probably not on par. I get lots attention go back and forth with a lot of girls. Meeting in person is another story.

 

I just changed my profile pic & all of a sudden been getting a lot more likes & talking to 2 women. So it really is all about the pics it seems like. Of course your job & profile matter a lot too. I think a lot of women are turned off by what I do for work since I don't make much.

[preraph]

I was actually responding to Salparadise in a slightly facetious manner, so please bear with me.

 

 

 

I agree with the above, wholeheartedly.

 

In my experience it doesn't have to be THE guy, but somebody who they trust to a certain degree. It took me a while with my first girlfriend to realize that she had really just wanted just sex, and I more of less coaxed her into a relationship, which was contrary to my understanding of women back then. The key point IMHO is that the women trust you as a man, and the woman is by no means always looking for a committed relationship.

 

Or to put a fine point on it: The shortest time between me meeting a woman and having sex with her is about 2 hours. I'm not THAT good-looking, and there is no way that she considered me to be THE guy in that short of a time frame.

 

Agreed.

 

That strongly depends on the type of woman. But yes, the body is in many cases not the deciding part, but rather the face and the hair. If you are ever around a really attractive guy in that respect and see how women react, it is both an amusing and sobering experience.

 

I'm not sure the comparison is ideal, because Arnold is somewhat self-depreciating and funny, but I agree on the whole idea: The concept of what men and what women think is an attractive male body varies greatly.

 

Agreed. IRL puts the emphasis more on courage, conversational skills, and just being interesting, rather than than the emphasis on looks, even though there are minimum standards that are non-negotiable for many women. But IRL you have a chance to connect with a woman even though you may not be her type physically, that is true.

 

Yes, yes, and yes. For me the X factor is charm, but not a conventional charm. An unexpected charm, an intellectual charm, or a funny charm, and I liked men who referenced some of the same cultural things as I did. That was very important, books, movies, music. And if someone is brilliantly creative, I am bound to like them. You usually can't see any of that without being in front of them, unless they're communicating through music or poetry.

 

I'm not going to tell you the shortest time between me meeting a guy and having sex with him but I will tell you it was in the seventies and I won the bet.

[NJ123]

Seems they lost interest but oh well. When someone views my profile but doesn't message me does that mean they likely aren't interested? Or do they just want me to message first? I've been getting tons of views today since I changed my profile pictures. Very rare do they message me though.

Edited June 5, 2017 by NJ123

[preraph]

Isn't everyone pretty much looking at everyone's photo and profile? It doesn't mean anything unless they say something.

[NJ123]

Isn't everyone pretty much looking at everyone's photo and profile? It doesn't mean anything unless they say something.

 

I meant if a bunch of women view my profile but don't message me? Does that usually mean no interest or do they expect me to message them first being that women generally prefer guys to approach?

[Blanco]

What do you have to offer women?

 

Unless you have movie-star looks or are unbelievably charming and charismatic, you have to be able to bring something to the table in the dating world beyond, "I'm a nice guy." And no, that's not me saying women don't like good guys. It's just that "nice" is a fairly common commodity, especially among guys who are looking to get a woman.

 

It was about a year ago that you started some other threads related to this subject. If I remember correctly, you had some things that many suggested you start to work on before you put even more focus on finding a girlfriend.

 

For instance, at the time, you didn't have a college degree, weren't taking classes, were working retail, living at home, and not really comfortable/willing to drive more than 20 or 30 miles from your house. A year later, and what's the update on those things?

[Imajerk17]

OP, you already posted this question in at least two other (long) threads.

 

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/transitioning/search/595160-online-dating-so-depressing

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/598848-almost-every-time-i-tell-woman-what-i-do-work-they-stop-replying

 

What has changed in the meanwhile. What answers are you expecting this time that you didn't get last time.

 

Anyway, what the others (e.g., Blanco) already said.

 

You had at least last year some serious issues (no ambition, can't drive 20 minutes to meet someone, living at home w parents because you aren't making nearly enough to support yourself) that would make dating extremely challenging for you. I mean, people with serious issues DO date and fall in love, but you would have a much better chance if you instead got said issues tackled first.

 

Meanwhile, OLD is the land where good pictures and "stats" matter so much more than they might otherwise. Someone with your job and living situation (and other self-admitted issues) will just find it very hard to get the attention from an OLD site of an attractive woman in your age-range who is looking for someone to settle down with. Profile pictures will get her attention to start, but then you have to keep the conversation going after that. Whining about why this is so and how unfair you feel it is won't change a thing. Sorry.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Imajerk17

[NJ123]

OP, you already posted this question in at least two other (long) threads.

 

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/transitioning/search/595160-online-dating-so-depressing

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/598848-almost-every-time-i-tell-woman-what-i-do-work-they-stop-replying

 

What has changed in the meanwhile. What answers are you expecting this time that you didn't get last time.

 

Anyway, what the others (e.g., Blanco) already said.

 

You had at least last year some serious issues (no ambition, can't drive 20 minutes to meet someone, living at home w parents because you aren't making nearly enough to support yourself) that would make dating extremely challenging for you. I mean, people with serious issues DO date and fall in love, but you would have a much better chance if you instead got said issues tackled first.

 

Meanwhile, OLD is the land where good pictures and "stats" matter so much more than they might otherwise. Someone with your job and living situation (and other self-admitted issues) will just find it very hard to get the attention from an OLD site of an attractive woman in your age-range who is looking for someone to settle down with. Profile pictures will get her attention to start, but then you have to keep the conversation going after that. Whining about why this is so and how unfair you feel it is won't change a thing. Sorry.

 

Yeah, I know I have to work on myself but there's so many people that have problems that still easily get girlfriends that are attractive. What I really dislike is that I can't seem to ever have a chance with a woman that I'm really attracted to physically. That being said I'm not expecting to be with a woman with supermodel looks just someone that's decent/good looking to me with a nice personality. I don't want to have to win one over due to some job I get. It would just leave a bitter taste in my mouth knowing the only reason I got with her is due to making better than average money. It's just annoying how a lot of women say money & looks don't matter when they really do. I don't get how some guys are okay with knowing that these women are with them because of the job they happen to have. Without that job a lot of those guys would have never gotten with those women.