married for 27 years now wife is raging and willing separation

[franco_63_63]

Me and mywife being together for 27 year. We have been living in Italy since our elder daughterwas born

 

She is Scandinavian and me Italian. I am 54 and she is 47. We have two children of 16and 13.I am working as a construction engineer and she is working as a teacher which she eventually started seven years ago but it has been only a couple of years that she is earning a normal salary. She has been at home until 2009.

 

 

About 3 years ago our elder daughter began to show signs of rage and misbehavior toward us but preferentially toward my wife, i.e. verbal and physical aggressions. Since a year and half ago we put her into therapy and also me andmy wife started a parenting support counseling path.

 

 

Her aggressions are still going on and she has been problematic in her school, i.e.several days off, since the beginning of the school year

 

 

About sixmonth ago my wife declared me she is not anymore in love with me and since thenshe began blaming me of everything has happened in the past 15 years, i.e. my complainswhen the house was messy which sometimes has happened, when I said to her badwords (which it has happened when we fought at home).

 

 

She also started to keep distance from the members of my family (two brothers and an old mother). She is also accusing me of not having given to her enough money whenshe was not working.

In this respect I should add that In all these years I hadto pay back the bank loan for our house plus a second house which I bought onher name, plus all the expense for the kids (holydays and sports included). Allloans were eventually paid off just a year and half ago.

 

 

During these six months of limbo life my wife dedicates all of her effort to work and I feel I am not anymore her confident. We sleep in separated rooms and during her rare free times she sees two girlfriends.

She also refuses to do anything with me, i.e. shopping and going out withchildren. I feel like I am her enemy.

 

 

Every two or three days she comes up withrage toward me and she throws on my face something from the past, i.e. thattime that I said to her to be quiet in the car and when the children werescreaming on the back sit.

 

 

Since six months ago she came up threateningseparation/divorce I started a 180 u turn behavior, i.e. avoiding on my side every behavior that I could be criticized for. Sometimes she mentioned shewould consult an attorney to arrange separation but I never received anyletter. I spied on her phone and I read that rarely she is speaking aboutseparation with her friends and with her therapist.

 

 

In those monthsI asked to her many times to apologize me for whatever offense she receivedfrom me but she never showed signs of forgiving.

I thankyou in advance for whatever opinion I would receive

Edited June 8, 2017 by franco_63_63

[d0nnivain]

It seems like she stored up every little hurt over the duration of your marriage & is now stacking them together to conclude that you are a bad husband. It sounds like you said some not so nice things over the years -- messy house, cursing at her etc. But nobody is perfect.

 

 

Since your wife has been to counseling with your daughter, ask that therapist to recommend a good marriage counselor. I suspect with a little help & a lot of romance on your part, this may be able to be saved, if your wife is open to it. But you will have to work. None of this macho stuff or resting on your laurels because after a quarter century & devoting her entire adult life to you you think that your wife is obligated to stay with you.

[franco_63_63]

yes, I agree with you. We are both on a couple therapy. We are seing separately two therapists that talk to each other. Next monday for the first time in half a year we are going to meet them together. The problem now is that my wife will pick on me for every little thing. For instance, if I prepare for my daughter or son a good meal she will blame me for being too good to them that eventually they will not like the meal she would prepare. Or again ten days ago she planned to go to a sport event alone with my son and when I declared in front of her AND HIM THAT I would have liked to go too and my son agreed, she got mad and said "now you will have to go on my place and that's it" . She is a little hysterical, she has allways been, but now it got much worse. She has also told me that she feels that when we are with children she feels like she has no turn to talk because our children will chose to talk with me. My feeling is that she exagerates everything... a little thing can become a huge offense for her. and so I am living in a nightmare fearing like I was walking on eggshells.

[somanymistakes]

It sounds like she's under a good deal of stress lately which is causing her to look back over her life and feel angry about everything, even things that weren't that big a deal at the time.

 

So yes, right now absolutely everything makes her angry.

 

At a guess from what you're saying (which may not be accurate because I don't have the whole picture) this isn't really your fault at the moment. Even if you try to avoid doing anything that will upset her, she's still going to be upset because of the root problem, whatever it is. So any little thing might set her off, and even if you do nothing, she might suddenly remember things from the past and bring those up and go off on you about that.

 

But most likely those things are NOT what is really bothering her. Either she can't come to terms with what's really bothering her or she doesn't want to tell you about it.

 

Marriage counseling might help, if it reassures you both and allows you to find a way to work as a team again. The most helpful thing of course would be if she can figure out what is really hurting her so much and how to deal with it, and how to ask you for help. Right now, she is pulling further and further away, and if she's absolutely not willing to open up to you, pursuing her will just make her run further.

[franco_63_63]

Yes I agree with you too. my wife is of protestant culture, a little unflexible, on the opposite of we italians. Like I explained our daughter of 16 yo. was her "jewel", until 3 years ago when she started a destructive rebellion. Before then, she was playing piano, very intelligent at school, performing well at swimming and fluent at two languages. My wife was proud of her and her performances and she would introduce proudly her to friends and relatives. But starting three years ago, our daughter began a downhill path, being absent at school, quitting swimming and piano lessons, being violent against her and recently we caught her steeling money from home. I guess this is too much for someone of protesatnt culture. I also suspect I am her scape goat. Perhaps this is the hidden reason of my wife suffering, or at least it affects a lot.

[d0nnivain]

Part of what is probably bothering her is that from age 20 to now, 47, for those 27 years she has been a wife & mother. She didn't work outside of the home until 8 years ago. She may have resented being a SAHM. Now as she's approaching 50 she is worried that her life is over, that her purpose has been fulfilled & that she had nothing. When she rails that the kids like you better, she's scared that she will be middle aged & all alone.

[BluesPower]

She is having an affair...

 

Start thinking that way. Hire a PI to have her followed...

 

Here are the red flags:

 

1) Recent working, last few years.

2) Change in behavior in the last 6 months.

3) Blaming you for every problem in the marriage (rewriting marital history).

4) Wanting to divorce/separate (in order to try out OM or leave marriage)

 

There are probably more but these are the most obvious.

 

Hire a PI and wait, she will slip up and you will know.

 

Then decide what you want to do...

[franco_63_63]

Of course, being italian I have already evaluated all of the issues you mentioned long ago. ...but:

1) never she goes out at night/evening only 2-3 times a year, 2) never found anything on her phone (whats up etc.); 3) she is seriously getting mad for little things whereas if she had an affair it would be much more convenient for her to be quite and calm at home.

[franco_63_63]

..the only male on her whatsapp she is texting is a colleague of hers..but texting is allways about students, votes, classes, lessons and so forth..nothing outside school issues...

[reboot]

Just out of curiosity, when she pitches these fits of rage every two or three days, does she ever storm out and stay gone a while?

[franco_63_63]

never goes away.... she stays at home and she eventually will go on blaming and blaming for 30-40 minutes

[somanymistakes]

While an affair is a possibility, the clues aren't strong enough in that direction to be certain about it, and fixating too much on just the one thing can blind you to other problems. It's good to keep your eyes open but it sounds like you already are looking out for that.

[franco_63_63]

that is also my opinion. My wife is not an adventurer...rather she is a slow person that do not like complications in her life.. I would never think of her running out of her lover's/flat in the middle of the day to return home preparing lunch for kids

[Downtown]

She is a little hysterical, she has always been, but now it got much worse.

Franco, most of your posts describe a wife whose behavior was fine for nearly 27 years and then suddenly became abusive six months ago. I therefore am struck by this comment where you say your W "has always been... a little hysterical." What does that mean specifically? Did you see her behavior start becoming strange or "hysterical" 27 years ago, starting right after the wedding?

[preraph]

yes, I agree with you. We are both on a couple therapy. We are seing separately two therapists that talk to each other. Next monday for the first time in half a year we are going to meet them together. The problem now is that my wife will pick on me for every little thing. For instance, if I prepare for my daughter or son a good meal she will blame me for being too good to them that eventually they will not like the meal she would prepare. Or again ten days ago she planned to go to a sport event alone with my son and when I declared in front of her AND HIM THAT I would have liked to go too and my son agreed, she got mad and said "now you will have to go on my place and that's it" . She is a little hysterical, she has allways been, but now it got much worse. She has also told me that she feels that when we are with children she feels like she has no turn to talk because our children will chose to talk with me. My feeling is that she exagerates everything... a little thing can become a huge offense for her. and so I am living in a nightmare fearing like I was walking on eggshells.

 

But remember that now is the time to bring up your complaints on her and also say how hard you try and how sometimes it's unfair and also she won't do anything together. Now with the therapy is a great time to put all that out there so you have nothing bad left to say about each other and then see if the therapists can help you put it back together or not. Don't hold back just because you know it will make her mad. Good luck.

[franco_63_63]

Franco, most of your posts describe a wife whose behavior was fine for nearly 27 years and then suddenly became abusive six months ago. I therefore am struck by this comment where you say your W "has always been... a little hysterical." What does that mean specifically? Did you see her behavior start becoming strange or "hysterical" 27 years ago, starting right after the wedding?

 

I mean that she has allways overreacted for little things, even before we married...when I say overreacted I mean that she was upset with tears....of course that was nothing compared to nowadays.

[franco_63_63]

But remember that now is the time to bring up your complaints on her and also say how hard you try and how sometimes it's unfair and also she won't do anything together. Now with the therapy is a great time to put all that out there so you have nothing bad left to say about each other and then see if the therapists can help you put it back together or not. Don't hold back just because you know it will make her mad. Good luck.

 

If now I would come up saying "I am trying hard and you are unfair to not share things with me" she would answer that the fault is mine to have have destroyed our marriage and that now is too late to save it,.. eventually adding "I don't love you anymore and it is over".. so I prefer to not bring up any marriage issue to avoid such answers.

[Downtown]

I mean that she has always overreacted for little things, even before we married...when I say overreacted I mean that she was upset with tears....of course that was nothing compared to nowadays.

When overreacting, did she exhibit any unexpected behavior other than crying? For example, 27 years ago did you see irrational jealousy -- e.g., her becoming offended when you looked at other women or talked with a female friend? Did you experience verbal abuse or icy withdrawals? Did you see moodiness, where she flip quickly between adoring you and devaluing you?

[franco_63_63]

When overreacting, did she exhibit any unexpected behavior other than crying? For example, 27 years ago did you see irrational jealousy -- e.g., her becoming offended when you looked at other women or talked with a female friend? Did you experience verbal abuse or icy withdrawals? Did you see moodiness, where she flip quickly between adoring you and devaluing you?

 

She would eventually go down on the floor in a exagerated manner, in such helpless desperation that nothing could help her...after such crisis it would take two days of fully forgiving. But never irrational jealousy...actually she never showed any jealousy. Never verbal abuse but definetely yes icy withdrawals yes and again yes. In the middle of an argument she would turn her head away from me which to me it feels worse than saying any bad words (at least for my style). No moodines but rather a very stable and silent way of let me know I was her man except when she got mad of me which usually lasted two or three days.

[franco_63_63]

When overreacting, did she exhibit any unexpected behavior other than crying? For example, 27 years ago did you see irrational jealousy -- e.g., her becoming offended when you looked at other women or talked with a female friend? Did you experience verbal abuse or icy withdrawals? Did you see moodiness, where she flip quickly between adoring you and devaluing you?

 

...about jealousy for other female no... but yes jealous about my friends and my family member... she allways felt herself an outsider....allways picking on critics about my friends and family members...since her pulling away began 6 months ago she refuses to see my brothers and their families....she criticize them all time whenever i speak about them.....

[preraph]

If now I would come up saying "I am trying hard and you are unfair to not share things with me" she would answer that the fault is mine to have have destroyed our marriage and that now is too late to save it,.. eventually adding "I don't love you anymore and it is over".. so I prefer to not bring up any marriage issue to avoid such answers.

 

No. You do it AT the therapist and let them figure out how to manage her.

[Downtown]

She would eventually go down on the floor in a exaggerated manner, in such helpless desperation that nothing could help her.... icy withdrawals.... jealous about my friends and my family members... always felt herself an outsider.... always overreacted for little things.

Franco, the reason I asked whether her behavior issues started showing 6 months ago or 27 years ago -- is to determine whether you might be seeing warning signs for a PD (personality disorder). Significantly, a PD typically originates in early childhood but does not start showing strong symptoms until age 12 or 13 -- the age at which your 16-year-old daughter started showing rage, verbal abuse, and physical aggression three years ago.

 

Granted, a large share of teenagers exhibit anger issues and most of them do NOT have a full-blown PD. Instead, their anger issues are caused by strong hormone changes and other factors. I nonetheless suggest you ask your therapist whether there is any chance your daughter could have inherited a PD or other mental issue from your wife's side of the family.

 

I also suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if most sound very familiar. I mention BPD traits as a possibility because some of the behaviors you describe -- e.g., jealous of your spending time with family and friends, punishing you with icy withdrawals, "overreacting for little things," and frequently believing herself to be "The Victim" ("helpless desperation") -- are warning signs for BPD. I am not suggesting she has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.

 

On the other hand, if your W really does not exhibit any moodiness -- as you state above -- then you are NOT describing a strong pattern of BPD behavior because its key feature is emotional instability. Moreover, if your W's behavioral problems were normal or mild until six months ago, she CANNOT be exhibiting a lifetime BPD problem. As I noted earlier, any substantial PD behavioral symptoms typically start showing strongly in the early teens and persist for a lifetime if left untreated. It nonetheless may be worth your while to take a quick look at my list of warning signs to see if any sound very familiar and raise questions. If so, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Finally, I caution that learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Although these symptoms are easy to spot whenever they are strong, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., taking her back or running into the arms of another woman just like her. Take care, Franco.

[franco_63_63]

thanks, for now I am struggling to keep the family together. Hope for better days ahead....

[franco_63_63]

Franco, the reason I asked whether her behavior issues started showing 6 months ago or 27 years ago -- is to determine whether you might be seeing warning signs for a PD (personality disorder). Significantly, a PD typically originates in early childhood but does not start showing strong symptoms until age 12 or 13 -- the age at which your 16-year-old daughter started showing rage, verbal abuse, and physical aggression three years ago.

 

Granted, a large share of teenagers exhibit anger issues and most of them do NOT have a full-blown PD. Instead, their anger issues are caused by strong hormone changes and other factors. I nonetheless suggest you ask your therapist whether there is any chance your daughter could have inherited a PD or other mental issue from your wife's side of the family.

 

I also suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if most sound very familiar. I mention BPD traits as a possibility because some of the behaviors you describe -- e.g., jealous of your spending time with family and friends, punishing you with icy withdrawals, "overreacting for little things," and frequently believing herself to be "The Victim" ("helpless desperation") -- are warning signs for BPD. I am not suggesting she has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.

 

On the other hand, if your W really does not exhibit any moodiness -- as you state above -- then you are NOT describing a strong pattern of BPD behavior because its key feature is emotional instability. Moreover, if your W's behavioral problems were normal or mild until six months ago, she CANNOT be exhibiting a lifetime BPD problem. As I noted earlier, any substantial PD behavioral symptoms typically start showing strongly in the early teens and persist for a lifetime if left untreated. It nonetheless may be worth your while to take a quick look at my list of warning signs to see if any sound very familiar and raise questions. If so, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Finally, I caution that learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Although these symptoms are easy to spot whenever they are strong, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., taking her back or running into the arms of another woman just like her. Take care, Franco.

 

 

 

 

Hi downtown,

let me report what has happened today. Yesterday evening she was fine, we went out with children to MacDonald and I let her space to talk with them since she accused me of being me who allways receive children's attention during family time. This morning I woke up in relatively good mode, had few chat with her and left for work. At about nine she called me and told me she was going soon to leave for work her too. But as of the sudden she picked from the past two episodes and began to victimize her self shouting that in the past I did not protect her and that I let other people to walk on her head. The two episoder she was refferring to were 1) when one year ago my daughter started a physical attack against us and we called my aunt that leaves close to us to calm her down; then my aunt walk inside daughter's room where we all were standing and began talking to her without wife's permission; the second episode was 2) when two years ago my brother's wife came to visit us while me and W were not home and she asked our second 13 y.o. son to go in the backyard to play with her 1 y.o. son.. My W says that was a big fault to have asked our son without consulting us first and that she felt devaluated as a mother. This morning she went on for about 30 minute shouting on the phone about those two episodes saying to me that I did not defend her rights and her wills properly

[barnabas17]

Hi, I'm really glad that you and your wife will be seeing the therapist together. I'm sure you've both walked together through many difficulties in life and your marriage is overall stronger for it. I'll be praying that the meeting will happen and will be a good start in opening up about any issues, especially underlying ones, that seem to drive the reactions.

 

Marriage is worth fighting for. I really appreciate how you are persistent and how you are seeking support or help in making things work.

 

Hopefully, the counseling will open up communication and provide some strategies that will help your relationship thrive, again. I found the "Five Love Languages" a really good resource for my family to help communicate love and appreciation, http://bit.ly/2d0EzMW

Edited June 21, 2017 by barnabas17