Blame Shifting

[HangnTN]

I have heard about Sisyphus and his rock but not sure how you apply this to the discussion that is taking place?

 

Duh

 

And, now for the rest of the story...

 

In Greek mythology, Sisyphus was the king of Ephyra. He was punished for his self-aggrandizing craftiness and deceitfulness by being forced to roll an immense boulder up a hill, only to watch it come back to hit him, repeating this action for eternity.

 

Edited June 17, 2017 by HangnTN
fixed typo

[BettyDraper]

Yes. All men do this. All women are victims of this inherent universal male trait/failing. Its their Sisyphus' burden. (If you don't know the story of Sisyphus, Google is your friend.)

 

I used the word "many" and speculated that blame shifting could be typical male behavior.

 

I did not make any definitive statements about men and blame shifting.

[InvisiBlonde]

Can ya say "Block and Divert"?

 

Blocking and Diverting - Types of Verbal Abuse

 

I get this all the time. If I have to make a point, I just let him run down and then make it, or attempt to.

 

Once.

 

If I don't, and I'm feeling prickly, I look at him and say, "I know you are, but what am I?!"

[Unforseen]

In my little household both my wife and I get caught blame shifting. For us it derives from a defensive stance when one of us feels "attacked" by the other. We both struggle with being stubborn and needing to "win" an argument. We have been steadily working on speaking our feelings to each other without accusatory tones or words and also listening to each other without taking any criticism as being disrespectful or unloving (unless it actually is, but that's another matter (see previous note about being stubborn...)).

 

We are practicing and getting better at it and our ideals about what it means to win an argument have shifted from having the last word and making the other person cry/storm off, to not allowing things to escalate to the point of anger whenever possible. The blame shifting was a last ditch effort to "win" an argument or move the focus of the argument and all in all a fairly miserable and hurtful tactic that we used all too often.

 

We learned most of our new skills in marriage counseling and I did some further study with the book, "Love and Respect". I've learned the art of apologizing when I'm wrong and that things that she may do that irritate me are not personal attacks and are not really worth arguing over. Besides, skipping ahead to kissing and making up is far more fun than trying to invent new curse words to explain how pissed we are at eachother.

[InvisiBlonde]

I've learned the art of apologizing when I'm wrong

 

AHA! I knew it was only a vicious rumour!

[InvisiBlonde]

We are practicing and getting better at it and our ideals about what it means to win an argument have shifted from having the last word and making the other person cry/storm off, to not allowing things to escalate to the point of anger whenever possible. The blame shifting was a last ditch effort to "win" an argument or move the focus of the argument and all in all a fairly miserable and hurtful tactic that we used all too often.

 

We learned most of our new skills in marriage counseling and I did some further study with the book, "Love and Respect".

 

This sounds great! Good for both of you

 

The man with whom I am involved is an almost-textbook Borderline with, additionally, some strong Narcissistic tendencies. There is no rational discussion.

 

I have an extremely competitive side to my personality and had to learn to shut down that Need To Win when dealing with him. We used to get into these verbal p***ing contests, and I'd end up adrenalized and furious with myself for showing it.

 

Lately what I do is say to him, "Ya know what? You got me again! You're way better at this than I am! You win!" and I smile at him and disengage.

[Unforseen]

That's sounds like a great way to deal with a difficult situation. For me I finally started realizing that many of the issues I was so prideful about weren't really all that important. Certainly not worth an evening of hurt feelings and anger. Of course it helps that my W is making many changes as well. She is really working hard at being respectful towards me and letting me know when I do something that bothers her or hurts her instead of holding onto it to pull out later as some kind of trump card. Hell, we wasted a lot of out marriage treating each other that poorly mainly because we didn't know how to communicate those little hurts and injuries without being accusatory or feeling like it was a personal attack.

 

My W and I have long held onto shame and feelings of inadequacy that we learned way before we even met each other. So we were also handicapped by generally feeling like our feelings weren't important or "right" to have. It has been quite a process over the past couple of years to reverse the bad habits learned in childhood, but it has been worth the effort.

[BettyDraper]

This sounds great! Good for both of you

 

The man with whom I am involved is an almost-textbook Borderline with, additionally, some strong Narcissistic tendencies. There is no rational discussion.

 

I have an extremely competitive side to my personality and had to learn to shut down that Need To Win when dealing with him. We used to get into these verbal p***ing contests, and I'd end up adrenalized and furious with myself for showing it.

 

Lately what I do is say to him, "Ya know what? You got me again! You're way better at this than I am! You win!" and I smile at him and disengage.

 

What makes you want to stay with someone with symptoms of serious personality disorders?

[InvisiBlonde]

What makes you want to stay with someone with symptoms of serious personality disorders?

 

Nothing at all.

 

What makes me have to stay right now is mostly financial dependency with some emotional thrown in: He is literally the only person I "have" in the world.

[Chardonnay Renée]

My personal experience has been that men will treat women badly once they get too comfortable. They start taking us for granted. For this reason, I like to keep my husband on his toes. I don't let him get away with unfair or disrespectful behavior because that's a slippery slope. Men have far more respect for women who challenge them once in a while.

 

I definitely agree with this, Betty! I'm learning how to stand up to my hubby. Confrontation doesn't come naturally to me, so it's been a learning curve.

[Chardonnay Renée]

Do they ever. My W never let herself go, she's more beautiful today than when I met her. But she never understood why sex was so important. And very few women do; they laugh about it when I overhear them, talk about how "he's not getting any tonight" and use it as a control mechanism instead of something that's shared and a valuable part of the marriage. Some men do this as well, but it's typically the man who's high drive, and the one who's looking to have more sex. But the pattern is so common as to be the subject of lots of comedy skits which honestly, is really sad. Sex is an amazing bonding experience for men and women; pull that out of the marriage and you basically have a roommate who you split chores with. Why so many women (and some men) are happy with this arrangement boggles my mind.

 

I understand why sex is important, but I simply do not feel like having sex if I feel unappreciated/neglected et al. If I refuse sex, it's not because I'm using it as a mechanism for control. I'm refusing because I feel hurt/upset and do not feel like giving myself to someone who made me feel that way.

 

I feel as though I have so much love to give. I give my heart to my husband and sacrifice my career to raise our children so he can achieve his dreams. If all I am to him is a sperm receptacle then he can GAGF!

 

Let me make it clear that in no way is this a permanent state of affairs. For the most part we are pretty good. Up until the past couple of weeks, things have been a little tough. We've smoothed things over recently, so hopefully they don't revert back to the horror month that was May this year.

 

I certainly couldn't imagine a sexless marriage. I wouldn't want to be a part of a sexless marriage. Sex is very important. But I also see many women trapped in a relationship they can't end, yet permanently in a state of tension whereby there's no emotional connection because their spouse has more or less checked out in that regard.

 

What's someone to do, especially a woman who doesn't feel emotionally connected to their spouse? Men just get an urge and the next minute their penis rises to the occasion and they can **** anything that moves, including their emotionally disconnected wife. Even if they themselves have emotionally checked out of the relationship.

 

That's what I struggle to get my head around!

[BettyDraper]

Nothing at all.

 

What makes me have to stay right now is mostly financial dependency with some emotional thrown in: He is literally the only person I "have" in the world.

 

I see. That makes sense. I hope you can get away sometime soon.

[BettyDraper]

I understand why sex is important, but I simply do not feel like having sex if I feel unappreciated/neglected et al. If I refuse sex, it's not because I'm using it as a mechanism for control. I'm refusing because I feel hurt/upset and do not feel like giving myself to someone who made me feel that way.

 

I feel as though I have so much love to give. I give my heart to my husband and sacrifice my career to raise our children so he can achieve his dreams. If all I am to him is a sperm receptacle then he can GAGF!

 

Let me make it clear that in no way is this a permanent state of affairs. For the most part we are pretty good. Up until the past couple of weeks, things have been a little tough. We've smoothed things over recently, so hopefully they don't revert back to the horror month that was May this year.

 

I certainly couldn't imagine a sexless marriage. I wouldn't want to be a part of a sexless marriage. Sex is very important. But I also see many women trapped in a relationship they can't end, yet permanently in a state of tension whereby there's no emotional connection because their spouse has more or less checked out in that regard.

 

What's someone to do, especially a woman who doesn't feel emotionally connected to their spouse? Men just get an urge and the next minute their penis rises to the occasion and they can **** anything that moves, including their emotionally disconnected wife. Even if they themselves have emotionally checked out of the relationship.

 

That's what I struggle to get my head around!

 

I always felt that I was supposed to be sexual with my husband simply because I'm his wife, no matter how I felt about him for whatever reason. We still have sex when we're going through difficulties as a sign that we are committed to each other.

 

This was not meant to be a put down. I was just talking about my own sex life. Based on what you've shared here, it makes sense that you have not been interested in sex until very recently. I'm happy that you and your husband have rekindled your sex life.

[InvisiBlonde]

I see. That makes sense. I hope you can get away sometime soon.

 

Thank you

 

I am working on it.

 

The longer version of the story is that he / this RS are a symptom of my own issues. It's just taken me a very long time to see them.

 

In spite of everything, I'm actually grateful for my experiences with him. Learning what I've had to learn in order to successfully move past this has taught me wonderful and valuable things I would not have found out about in any other way!

[BettyDraper]

Thank you

 

I am working on it.

 

The longer version of the story is that he / this RS are a symptom of my own issues. It's just taken me a very long time to see them.

 

In spite of everything, I'm actually grateful for my experiences with him. Learning what I've had to learn in order to successfully move past this has taught me wonderful and valuable things I would not have found out about in any other way!

 

Oh yes...we often learn great lessons from pain.

[Timuquana2017]

I dated someone like that and I had to let him go. He did not fight fair at all and then was quick to not take any responsibility at all. It became so bad that I just had to dismiss him because every little thing would just set him off. And then to add insult to injury when I spoke up about something that was bothering me that he would do he would immediately go on the defensive. If I was married and dealing with that I outdent stick around. Its not my place to suggest you leaving him but your suggestion of possibly going on separation sounds ideal. Hopefully it will wake him up and he will see the error in his ways and change his behavior. I feel so bad for you because I know whats its like to be disrespected in that manner.

[BettyDraper]

I dated someone like that and I had to let him go. He did not fight fair at all and then was quick to not take any responsibility at all. It became so bad that I just had to dismiss him because every little thing would just set him off. And then to add insult to injury when I spoke up about something that was bothering me that he would do he would immediately go on the defensive. If I was married and dealing with that I outdent stick around. Its not my place to suggest you leaving him but your suggestion of possibly going on separation sounds ideal. Hopefully it will wake him up and he will see the error in his ways and change his behavior. I feel so bad for you because I know whats its like to be disrespected in that manner.

 

I've seen this tendency in more than one man. Not just men that I dated but partners of friends and family.

 

At this point, I won't be leaving my husband because I believe that the separation suggestion and raising my voice at him made him see how serious I was.