When you like what you cant have?

[GemmaUK]

Not always - Interesting article about that

 

Which is why body language is best learned, not assumed.

 

If you purposely don't fold your arms and the reason for you wanting to fold your arms is insecurity or shyness then what you are doing is not a fix all action. There will be other body language which makes up for the fact you are purposefully not folding your arms - eg pursed lips - which is one of the single most uninviting expressions a new person you meet can have because it looks like contempt.

 

Interesting isn't 'sexy' per say - it's moreso just interesting but can help significantly towards interesting conversations providing you listen as well as speak, listening is what enables conversations to go off in al kinds of different directions.

[ZA Dater]

Which is why body language is best learned, not assumed.

 

If you purposely don't fold your arms and the reason for you wanting to fold your arms is insecurity or shyness then what you are doing is not a fix all action. There will be other body language which makes up for the fact you are purposefully not folding your arms - eg pursed lips - which is one of the single most uninviting expressions a new person you meet can have because it looks like contempt.

 

Interesting isn't 'sexy' per say - it's moreso just interesting but can help significantly towards interesting conversations providing you listen as well as speak, listening is what enables conversations to go off in al kinds of different directions.

 

Agreed if the person in front you actually participates, for the most part its just me asking questions about them and then trying to steer the conversation around that. Rarely do I get asked anything.

[BaileyB]

Agreed if the person in front you actually participates, for the most part its just me asking questions about them and then trying to steer the conversation around that. Rarely do I get asked anything.

 

then you are dating the wrong people, my friend.

[elaine567]

Agreed if the person in front you actually participates, for the most part its just me asking questions about them and then trying to steer the conversation around that. Rarely do I get asked anything.

 

OK but you have said in the past that you give off the impression of being a cold fish, and you have a very dry sense of humour that most people don't usually "get", you don't drink, don't dance and you are pretty business like in approach, so firing off questions may seem more like a job interview than a date to the woman you are dating.

Add in the fact you rarely find anyone you date that attractive, then you may be giving off a contemptuous or arrogant vibe; many shy people do.

Some people are hard work, I agree, but are you scaring off your dates?

People tend to want fun on a date, they don't tend to like being "interrogated".

I am not suggesting you are scaring them off in a creepy serial killer way but they may be just scared to ask you any questions if you are acting like their boss at work.

[GemmaUK]

OK but you have said in the past that you give off the impression of being a cold fish, and you have a very dry sense of humour that most people don't usually "get", you don't drink, don't dance and you are pretty business like in approach, so firing off questions may seem more like a job interview than a date to the woman you are dating.

Add in the fact you rarely find anyone you date that attractive, then you may be giving off a contemptuous or arrogant vibe; many shy people do.

Some people are hard work, I agree, but are you scaring off your dates?

People tend to want fun on a date, they don't tend to like being "interrogated".

I am not suggesting you are scaring them off in a creepy serial killer way but they may be just scared to ask you any questions if you are acting like their boss at work.

 

This!

 

ZA a conversation isn't asking questions.

A conversation where you are wanting to get to know someone on a date is being vulnerable to some degree and opening up about yourself which leads them to open up to you too.

 

My ex - the man I was with for 14 years, we met one night so therefore knew each other to a small degree through that,

I met him several times over 4 months after that. He would spot me and say hello always with a big smile and ask how I was and we would have a chat.

 

We then bumped into each other, said hello and later that night ran into each other again. We ended up going into a quiet area and pretty much telling our life stories to each other.

We both initially listened, we each asked questions and it flowed.

 

There was no need to just ask questions - we fell into a conversation and talking about our lives.

I still could not imagine having to ask a date a pile (even a small pile) of questions about themselves and have never done that my entire life.

 

If a date can't converse then we're incompatible to me.

We're in a venue, there should be way enough going on around us to start talking.

[BaileyB]

Exactly, a date that can't converse doesn't get a second date.

 

I once dated a man who had a virtual script, with talking points he wanted to get across during the conversation. He directed the conversation and he was not responsive to my attempts to expand the conversation or move him off of his script of questions and important things about himself that he thought I should know... It was so uncomfortable, because it felt like he wasn't trying to get to know me. Nobody likes a job interview, especially when you are trying to get to know someone and have some fun together.

 

An individual with good social skills will help the other individual to relax and feel good about themselves, encourage them to open up/share information, and bring both parties together by seeking commonality. Some people may have it naturally, but for most people it's very much a learned skill.

 

I actually wonder if you put some people off in conversation, just because you have said that you are very serious, have a dry sense of humor, and you have so many preconceived notions about people and what you want/find attractive. Maybe they do pick up on that vibe and they decide early on that its not going to work for them... which is why they don't ask many questions. I have certainly been on dates with men who were arrogant, opinionated, serious and thought... how much longer do I have to stay? I start planning my grocery list... make mental notes of things to do at work the next day... start thinking about where I'm going to find someone else to date... I've certainly "checked-out" of a few dates and phone conversations in the past with men who haven't really picked up on this...

Edited August 24, 2017 by BaileyB

[ZA Dater]

OK but you have said in the past that you give off the impression of being a cold fish, and you have a very dry sense of humour that most people don't usually "get", you don't drink, don't dance and you are pretty business like in approach, so firing off questions may seem more like a job interview than a date to the woman you are dating.

Add in the fact you rarely find anyone you date that attractive, then you may be giving off a contemptuous or arrogant vibe; many shy people do.

Some people are hard work, I agree, but are you scaring off your dates?

People tend to want fun on a date, they don't tend to like being "interrogated".

I am not suggesting you are scaring them off in a creepy serial killer way but they may be just scared to ask you any questions if you are acting like their boss at work.

 

I am not going to flat out deny this, more of the case of I really don't know, thats perhaps the best answer I can give. I try steer the conversation around their interests and try find out about them but and this is going to sound arrogant but its not meant to be, I find many of them very unremarkable. The last one had a degree in genetics, very interesting person in terms of life experiences, career orientated by capable of speaking about things and herself.

 

 

Perhaps I need to qualify what was unremarkable, there is nothing about them which made me sit up metaphorically and take notice, when I asked them about themselves, nothing really jumped out at me. Maybe I need to come up with some better questions...

[ZA Dater]

This!

 

ZA a conversation isn't asking questions.

A conversation where you are wanting to get to know someone on a date is being vulnerable to some degree and opening up about yourself which leads them to open up to you too.

 

My ex - the man I was with for 14 years, we met one night so therefore knew each other to a small degree through that,

I met him several times over 4 months after that. He would spot me and say hello always with a big smile and ask how I was and we would have a chat.

 

We then bumped into each other, said hello and later that night ran into each other again. We ended up going into a quiet area and pretty much telling our life stories to each other.

We both initially listened, we each asked questions and it flowed.

 

There was no need to just ask questions - we fell into a conversation and talking about our lives.

I still could not imagine having to ask a date a pile (even a small pile) of questions about themselves and have never done that my entire life.

 

If a date can't converse then we're incompatible to me.

We're in a venue, there should be way enough going on around us to start talking.

 

Generally speaking I don't do this ever. Few reasons for it, one being when I have the rejection was far worse. Much of my professional life is covered in confidentiality and seeing I spend around 10 hours a day doing this there isn't really a heck of a lot I can talk about. Sure I have been to a few extremely extravagant parties, the likes of which would do fictional Jay Gatsby justice but again how many people can relate to those.

 

 

Having said all of that sometimes yes the conversation does flow really well like it did and does with K and perhaps 3 or so others. I look at dating to a degree of inviting someone into your world, sharing your beliefs and lifestyle.

 

 

Impressing me is remarkably easy, very actually, speak well, articulate well, pretty face helps and immediately you will have my attention, speak poorly have little to say and my attention is gone really quickly.

 

 

You would be surprised how many people I have taken to coffee who cannot converse...

[GemmaUK]

Generally speaking I don't do this ever. Few reasons for it, one being when I have the rejection was far worse.

 

Two questions then:

 

Why was the rejection far worse?

I'm not talking about telling people about your job so much as telling people about your life, growing up, sharing a few stories, anecdotes etc.

 

If you're on a date with someone who cannot converse then how did you get to the point of asking them out? Were these cold approaches or something without taking any time to 'get to know' them in any way?

[ZA Dater]

Exactly, a date that can't converse doesn't get a second date.

 

I once dated a man who had a virtual script, with talking points he wanted to get across during the conversation. He directed the conversation and he was not responsive to my attempts to expand the conversation or move him off of his script of questions and important things about himself that he thought I should know... It was so uncomfortable, because it felt like he wasn't trying to get to know me. Nobody likes a job interview, especially when you are trying to get to know someone and have some fun together.

 

An individual with good social skills will help the other individual to relax and feel good about themselves, encourage them to open up/share information, and bring both parties together by seeking commonality. Some people may have it naturally, but for most people it's very much a learned skill.

 

I actually wonder if you put some people off in conversation, just because you have said that you are very serious, have a dry sense of humor, and you have so many preconceived notions about people and what you want/find attractive. Maybe they do pick up on that vibe and they decide early on that its not going to work for them... which is why they don't ask many questions. I have certainly been on dates with men who were arrogant, opinionated, serious and thought... how much longer do I have to stay? I start planning my grocery list... make mental notes of things to do at work the next day... start thinking about where I'm going to find someone else to date... I've certainly "checked-out" of a few dates and phone conversations in the past with men who haven't really picked up on this...

 

I actually tried he script idea but it doesn't work because I cant keep to any sort of script!

 

 

The bold is all very true and maybe it might surprise some but I do actually have some of these skills, getting people to talk if we can relate isn't that difficult, yes, its a shot in the dark but one talking point generally leads to a conversation.

 

 

Might be true but for much of the time many were not people I was too keen on but in the absence of choice I suppose I adopted the mantra: "they might be nice".

 

 

An example of where it do sort of kind of work was someone I took out a few years ago, very, very intelligent lady and 3 hours passed quickly, she had a boyfriend (I didn't know this she told me at the date, he was overseas for 9 months) and obviously I made a decent enough impression and was invited back. Of course nothing happened and I left 5 min later.

 

 

I have actually see that checked out look a few times. Again not something that worried me because I had at that point decided they were not for me either.

 

 

In part some of the fault is mine because generally I don't find people THAT interesting, unless there is something different about them which is usually a line of work or in some cases their outlook on life.

 

 

Inherently I always want the seemingly impossible, career wise I have managed to pull off a seemingly impossible project a few times, proven people wrong many times and did things which some thought I could not do. That challenge keeps me going, that the thrill I get. When I bring that to the dating table I find few offer any sort of challenge at all so I set my sights on the really hard to get. Many people think this is stupid, others think focussed ambition is good.

 

 

Not great to admit but I think the above post has some truth to it. I suppose the good thing is I have had enough bad experiences to know what I absolutely do not want!

[ZA Dater]

Two questions then:

 

Why was the rejection far worse?

I'm not talking about telling people about your job so much as telling people about your life, growing up, sharing a few stories, anecdotes etc.

 

If you're on a date with someone who cannot converse then how did you get to the point of asking them out? Were these cold approaches or something without taking any time to 'get to know' them in any way?

 

It was easier to converse on line with them but many times I simply arrived at the date knowing all there was to know about them, which I guess is the weakness of OLD to some extent. Most of the time I secretly hoped the person would be better in person than the conversation suggested and perhaps they thought the same of me.

 

 

I share some stories about me and life and that sort of thing but its hard to say but there never seems to be any sort of "glue". Few weeks ago there was some glue with someone else, was great, very different topics and I could open up and so did she. I am not her type of guy though, it was just a friendly conversation.

[normal person]

It was easier to converse on line with them but many times I simply arrived at the date knowing all there was to know about them, which I guess is the weakness of OLD to some extent.

 

If you read a couple carefully curated paragraphs about a complete stranger ahead of time and assumed that's all there was to them, that's your weakness, not OLD's. That's like reading the the description on the back cover of a book and assuming you know how it ends or that you don't like it. Yeah, you still might not like the book, but you have to put in the effort to read it and find out.

 

I'm not saying you don't have the inherent intuition to spend a bit of time with someone and realize they aren't right for you, but you also need to break this habit of making convenient excuses, because it's not helping you.

[GemmaUK]

It was easier to converse on line with them but many times I simply arrived at the date knowing all there was to know about them, which I guess is the weakness of OLD to some extent. Most of the time I secretly hoped the person would be better in person than the conversation suggested and perhaps they thought the same of me.

 

 

I share some stories about me and life and that sort of thing but its hard to say but there never seems to be any sort of "glue". Few weeks ago there was some glue with someone else, was great, very different topics and I could open up and so did she. I am not her type of guy though, it was just a friendly conversation.

 

I don't mean o offend you ZA but you can't possibly know all there was to know about them before you even went on a date. That is a totally ridiculous statement.

I was with my ex for almost 14 years and all the way through that relationship we were still regularly learning new things about each other.

It's not the fault of OLD. OLD is just a tool to bring people who wouldn't normally necessarily meet IRL together.

If on a date nothing else came out about them it's because they didn't want to share anything further about themselves and probably realised early on that you weren't a match.

If a date is not relaxed, happy to talk, share things about themselves then it's really easy to pick up on that - the glue you speak of - well they're keeping the lid on their pot of glue. There's no point trying to glue something when you know it's not going to stick in any way.

 

There's something I have been noticing about you over the past year or so also and I wrote my last post, then deleted the majority of it to condense it right down in the hope that it would distract you less and you would see and respond to the questions in it. This is also why at the start of my post I said 'here's two questions'.

Despite that you didn't respond to either question.

I asked those questions for specific reasons, was hoping you would respond so that I could then converse back with you once I'd got your response.

I have seen you not respond to questions time and again on here - which is precisely why I did what I did with my last post.

Your replies are often what I'd call a 'politician's response' - vague, not really responding but instead skirting around. 'Spin' basically.

 

Now, in the context of OLD and also IRL if someone asks you a couple of questions and you do the same thing then, well, yes you are communicating back but if you ignore questions then they have something to read/listen to but also along the way that person will realise that communicating with you and getting to know you is going to be incredibly difficult.

The not answering is a trait of yours though and it's something that you very likely do also IRL and on OLD, not just on LS.

It also doesn't take very long to test out when on a date.

If communication isn't there and easy (and it is your job as well as hers to make it easy) then a date will know pretty damn quickly that a relationship with you isn't going to be easy as relationships rely heavily on communication.

 

I don't know if what you do is choose to ignore questions, whether you choose not to answer them or whether you don't even notice them - only you can tell us that.

Either way though it doesn't come across very well to the person asking the question. Avoiding questions appear shady, not noticing questions is an indication of not being a good listener. Both of which would kill any chance of a second or third, fourth date. People do give the benefit of the doubt and will give another date or another few dates a shot sometimes, hoping communication might get better but eventually if things don't improve they realise there's no point continuing.

[ZA Dater]

Two questions then:

 

Why was the rejection far worse?

I'm not talking about telling people about your job so much as telling people about your life, growing up, sharing a few stories, anecdotes etc.

 

If you're on a date with someone who cannot converse then how did you get to the point of asking them out? Were these cold approaches or something without taking any time to 'get to know' them in any way?

 

Because if you share a lot it's just been a total waste of time if you get rejected. I am not really interested in sharing who I am with a person who decided from the off they were not interested. Most of the time they were never that interested.

 

Because people on old often communicate better on line than in person. That's my experience anyway.

 

Mostly they were cold old approaches, I simply was bored enough to see who would be up for going out. Can't say any of them have ever impressed me to any degree when I did meet them. I have my benchmarks and if the person in front of me doesn't wow me in some form I simply loose interest. Which seems fair considering the same logic is applied to me.

 

I used old as a numbers thing, see how many would meet up. Most I didn't find attractive so it was a case of seeing if in person they were more attractive. Now on old I just see all the same people.

 

People don't generally ask me questions on dates, probably because they were not interested from the outset. Maybe I simply expect too much.

[GemmaUK]

I used old as a numbers thing, see how many would meet up. Most I didn't find attractive so it was a case of seeing if in person they were more attractive. Now on old I just see all the same people.

 

Well, to be honest if this is how you use OLD or any dating apps for that matter then I'm not at all surprised that this type of dating tool doesn't work for you.

This does explain an awful lot.

If you changed the way you use this type of tool then you'd actually start on a real learning curve with dating and find better dates and people who could well be much more suited and compatible.

[elaine567]

It was easier to converse on line with them but many times I simply arrived at the date knowing all there was to know about them,

 

It takes literally years to get to know someone properly. A few texts or even a few long emails is not going to tell you anything about who they really are.

 

Who goes about telling someone they never even met their innermost thoughts?

 

Yes, you may find out they like the beach and dislike the mountains, they hate spaghetti but love pizza and other trivial things, but that is not the real them, is it?

If you are going to base a relationship on trivia then go ahead filter all you like before the meet up and even show your disdain during dinner, but you may find that you are discounting real prospects here.

[ZA Dater]

Well, to be honest if this is how you use OLD or any dating apps for that matter then I'm not at all surprised that this type of dating tool doesn't work for you.

This does explain an awful lot.

If you changed the way you use this type of tool then you'd actually start on a real learning curve with dating and find better dates and people who could well be much more suited and compatible.

 

My point it's the same people on these sites as there were two years ago. Not sure on what other way I must use these sites.

[elaine567]

My point it's the same people on these sites as there were two years ago.

 

Including you, so what makes those women any worse a prospect than you are?

Even in normal dating people may be available then unavailable then available again, not everyone sails into the sunset with the first guy they meet.

 

People on the site may not be that serious about dating for a while, do not have time to date, some may not have found what they are looking for.

It is no disgrace that some of those women have not found Mr Right in 2 years. YOU may be her Mr Right in reality and she may be your Miss Right if you gave her that chance.

[GemmaUK]

Mostly they were cold old approaches, I simply was bored enough to see who would be up for going out. Can't say any of them have ever impressed me to any degree when I did meet them. I have my benchmarks and if the person in front of me doesn't wow me in some form I simply loose interest. Which seems fair considering the same logic is applied to me.

 

Cold OLD approaches to see who would be up for going out is no gauge for getting to know someone to see if they might be compatible though is it!?

All you're doing here is finding out if a time in your schedule fits with a woman and finding out that that woman is up for a meet up with someone right away - so she is also not spending any time to gauge whether you would be compatible with her either.

 

If you were to spend a week or so to communicate online, by text, over a call or two with someone you'd both get a much better idea of whether the two of you might get along rather than asking someone out off the bat.

[ZA Dater]

Cold OLD approaches to see who would be up for going out is no gauge for getting to know someone to see if they might be compatible though is it!?

All you're doing here is finding out if a time in your schedule fits with a woman and finding out that that woman is up for a meet up with someone right away - so she is also not spending any time to gauge whether you would be compatible with her either.

 

If you were to spend a week or so to communicate online, by text, over a call or two with someone you'd both get a much better idea of whether the two of you might get along rather than asking someone out off the bat.

 

I agree, I have done that too and mostly never end up meeting them. Mainly because the conversation dies quite quickly or it goes really well but then it doesn't work in person...I think the loner aspect of me shines brightly.

 

I have spent some time trying to understand what people actually want and it's hard to dismiss the material aspects around that or the superficial ones. I accept people must go out with people they find attractive and for ages I looked for that complete sort of person bit theu are rare!

[ZA Dater]

Cold OLD approaches to see who would be up for going out is no gauge for getting to know someone to see if they might be compatible though is it!?

All you're doing here is finding out if a time in your schedule fits with a woman and finding out that that woman is up for a meet up with someone right away - so she is also not spending any time to gauge whether you would be compatible with her either.

 

If you were to spend a week or so to communicate online, by text, over a call or two with someone you'd both get a much better idea of whether the two of you might get along rather than asking someone out off the bat.

 

Oh the reason I ended up doing this is because if I didn't I'd never go out with anyone at all.

[normal person]

Because if you share a lot it's just been a total waste of time if you get rejected. I am not really interested in sharing who I am with a person who decided from the off they were not interested. Most of the time they were never that interested.

 

So you'll spend your time and money going out with someone, but once you're there and your time has already been committed, you won't then do something that might actually save it all from being a waste of time? Sounds like another bad excuse.

 

People don't generally ask me questions on dates, probably because they were not interested from the outset. Maybe I simply expect too much.

 

They're interested enough to spend their time and energy to go out with you, but not enough to summon a modicum of effort to ask you anything? And this "generally" happens? I doubt it. Unless you're just bombarding her with questions and not letting her get a word in, she'll have some compulsion to ask you something, even if it's just idle chit chat. Better than an awkward silence. What's she doing otherwise? Looking at her phone? I doubt it. Once or twice in five years I've been out with girls who only talked about themselves and never learned much about me, but they were outliers. Far more the exception than the rule. I highly doubt this is as bad as you're making it out to be.

[ZA Dater]

So you'll spend your time and money going out with someone, but once you're there and your time has already been committed, you won't then do something that might actually save it all from being a waste of time? Sounds like another bad excuse.

 

 

 

They're interested enough to spend their time and energy to go out with you, but not enough to summon a modicum of effort to ask you anything? And this "generally" happens? I doubt it. Unless you're just bombarding her with questions and not letting her get a word in, she'll have some compulsion to ask you something, even if it's just idle chit chat. Better than an awkward silence. What's she doing otherwise? Looking at her phone? I doubt it. Once or twice in five years I've been out with girls who only talked about themselves and never learned much about me, but they were outliers. Far more the exception than the rule. I highly doubt this is as bad as you're making it out to be.

 

Well I didn't find them attractive at all in person. Ultimately it was better than sitting on my own.

[GemmaUK]

ZA, this:

Oh the reason I ended up doing this is because if I didn't I'd never go out with anyone at all.

 

Totally contradicts this in bold:

 

I agree, I have done that too and mostly never end up meeting them. Mainly because the conversation dies quite quickly or it goes really well but then it doesn't work in person...I think the loner aspect of me shines brightly.

 

I have spent some time trying to understand what people actually want and it's hard to dismiss the material aspects around that or the superficial ones. I accept people must go out with people they find attractive and for ages I looked for that complete sort of person bit theu are rare!

 

So , working on getting to know someone a bit prior to the date did result in some dates.

 

I agree also with NP.

But time and again you say your conversational skills are lacking - the only way to improve these is to throw yourself into something new where you have a chance to practice conversational skills with both men AND women and also to learn to read body language - but you're not at all prepared to do these things.

 

The OLD where you made efforts to get to know prior to a date sound pretty much the same as most people's common experiences with OLD. It takes time and patience and new people popping up on the site in order to find someone you mesh with.

But I suspect your response will be that you have tried the 'getting to know beforehand bit' before and so you won't try it again.

[ZA Dater]

ZA, this:

 

 

Totally contradicts this in bold:

 

 

 

So , working on getting to know someone a bit prior to the date did result in some dates.

 

I agree also with NP.

But time and again you say your conversational skills are lacking - the only way to improve these is to throw yourself into something new where you have a chance to practice conversational skills with both men AND women and also to learn to read body language - but you're not at all prepared to do these things.

 

The OLD where you made efforts to get to know prior to a date sound pretty much the same as most people's common experiences with OLD. It takes time and patience and new people popping up on the site in order to find someone you mesh with.

But I suspect your response will be that you have tried the 'getting to know beforehand bit' before and so you won't try it again.

 

Not every single date has been of the random lets meet up type. The majority of the time I do try and get to know them for a few days before meeting up and I have had fantastic conversations on text and mostly it falls flat in person, for some reason someone who was chatty in text isn't or they chat less. I suspect I know why, its call physical attraction which didn't work in person.

 

 

No issue with this because I have been on the side of not finding people attractive (mostly actually).

 

 

My conversational skills aren't lacking at all, I can talk about many subjects, barring perhaps clubs and alcohol but what is lacking are people with the same skill, yes that's arrogant but the level of apathy I have been confronted with on dates has made me wonder if some people really don't know anything about the outside world. Yes, you will say that's not important and I should be asking about their life story but honestly I cant recall ever being asked about mine, in fact contrary to what Normal Persons says its actually the exception here rather than the rule for me to be asked anything. Its about talking about them and everything to do with them, which becomes intensely boring after a while.

 

 

If my conversational skills were so poor I wouldn't be able to command the attention of an audience when I give speeches or be able to run a club, or a company or two.

 

 

The only new place to find people is Tinder and we all know how well that's works hahaha.

 

 

Irrespective whether I get to know someone or not the date happens, I just don't gel with any of them but for a purpose of the idea of not being alone these is some merit to those dates, sure it costs me a dinner and some drinks but sometimes its a price worth paying to not sit on my own.

 

 

People keep telling me its a numbers game so I did try that with anyone who was prepared to go out with me, irrespective if I found them attractive which people say is wasting my time but when you find very few people attractive it seemed like a worthwhile compromise to try find some dating experience, little did I know the experiences weren't for the most part what I wanted.

 

 

I personally don't believe you can tell too much about someone from texting them you need to actually meet them face to face so endless texting doesn't really interest me because I'd rather know soon if they like me or not and the only way to determine this is to actually meet face to face. I am confident enough to do that, not an issue at all. The problem comes in, how to show interest, how much I can take of one way conversation, whether the person articulates well or not and whether we have anything common at all.

 

 

A thought, how much confidence is standing your ground versus endless compromise which yields nothing at all?

 

 

Ultimately I am becoming less inclined to meet people who don't show any sort of interest in me, I am beyond begging people for dates, selling myself in the hope if I trot out a list of achievements she will be impressed.