When you like what you cant have?

[ZA Dater]

Real quick question.

You car club, does it reside at a race track of any sort?

Or, is there somewhere nearby where you can hire/use the track?

 

My mind is buzzing with some possible ideas so let me know so I can then broaden my reply tomorrow.

 

We have an annual track event yes, the majority of the other events are lunches, breakfasts and days away.

 

 

For example we have a gala dinner coming up in October. Actually going to this for the change, I usually avoid them.

[Bastile]

Mate, it's been 22 pages.

 

Have you changed your approach in any way? Or do you feel that you are coming to any conclusions moving forward?

[GemmaUK]

First I want to answer the question.

This made me giggle - that's self depreciation, humour and banter/flirting right there! :0

 

There is a certain degree of synergy between work and club, in fact they tend to branch off each other to certain extents. You ask how well I integrate, pretty well, a group of 20 of us got back yesterday from a weekend away. I am quite happy to stand toe to toe, talk about families, their kids, experiences and life in general. There is a common interest which brings us all together which is nice, all are successful people but there no airs and graces.

All good!

Synergy between work and the club is OK but as you run it I think you could kind of expand the club in a few possible different ways. I'll explain later.

 

We meet up go for drives, breakfasts, dinners and suchlike. From this the occasional piece of business is sometimes done. Its not a dating environment but it is a good networking environment.

Again, al the trips etc all sound like great fun things to do. What you could do (which I don't know if you already do) is when you go on the trips - even breakfast remember that you're at a venue (most likely?) so keep your eyes open, look around when you enter any and I mean ANY venue.

The person looking around and catching eyes (if you like a lady definitely look at her face and her eyes (from a distance) more than once.

You say the club is not a dating environment but actually anywhere and everywhere you go is potentially a place to meet someone.

I myself have really had to concentrate on this as I have a habit of focusing completely on who I am with and it becomes a real habit.

I can become so involved in my group of folk that I don't notice things or people around me.

Now, you are single, your group knows this so if your eyes wander off a few times or even if you politely break away from the group then they'll understand. You might get a little bit of teasing (and if you get any twerps saying 'hey he's never been on a date' then you have to find a comfortable way for you to roll with it right at the moment.

So, even though the people in your club are not single it doesn't mean you can't meet someone whilst out with the group.

There's ways to 'be seen' in venues too, say you get a couple of looks from a lady in response to yours, the next time you need to move - eg - visit the counter/the toilet/the cutlery station you walk past her. A moving object in a venue is more noticeable than a static one.

 

In the past we've also discussed your dress sense and style. I know you don't wear jeans and I think (?) you wear cargo pants (khaki green/grey/beige) relaxed fit cotton with pockets (if you know the type of thing) look great as a jeans substitute.

So, going along this line again - yeah sorry! I have 100% no doubt that if you asked a few of the married ladies in your club to get together for a day and get you kitted out - they would love to help. Choose a group of ladies who are friends and who dress well and whose husbands dress well. (one huge thing is to make sure their husbands always wear trousers which are long enough and not cut up at the ankle - this is a very common error and looks dreadful).

I think I have mentioned before to you that I've very willingly helped a few friends out who have asked me for help on this and they were 'happy as' with the results and each spent around £250 but went home with a full wardrobe of weekend clothes and tips for what suits them.

Another important thing which I read somewhere and now realise myself is that it matters more to a woman what a man is wearing than it does to a man what a woman is wearing.

Don't go for 'too smart', you want a casual look for weekends.

And, I recall you re-styled your hair - make sure you like it but keep it managed and in shape. If you don't like what you have then get recommendations from one of the guys and try out some new places and new stylists.

 

 

I don't stop other methods I just never really meet anyone single through those methods, I do however get to observe people who date easily the charm used and the general methodology and of course I get to hear all the "do this do that" advice which however well meaning is definitely not a blanket solution.

Observations are good, do this do that can get annoying (I am sure I have become annoying to you in this thread ( but remember that each situation is different and each person is different so something which didn't work for you with one person on 'X' day might work with someone else on 'Y' day.

Something to always try to remember is that a person might just be having a really bad day for whatever reason. Realising this can absolutely help with not taking things as personally. (A great book on this and a few other subjects is The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz - I seriously recommend reading this and learning how to build the principles into your life - seriously!)

But, as I said earlier - always keep your eyes open, even out at the grocery store or DIY store (a very good place to meet someone actually).

 

I mention the models because for the most part all are nice grounded people who exude confidence and that confidence is very attractive. I have always found confidence attractive but here is comes in a package where I can easily sit and converse with them in a friend zone way knowing they aren't in me in any other way but I still get the conversational benefit. FYI the ones I have met are all well travelled and just interesting, many have had rough dating lives too, so when I get told they do understand me then I feel some form of comfort. In all instances these people have known me foe 3 years plus.

 

So, let's flip this a bit.

What you have here is women you are attracted to whom you have opened up to (or they have you) and therefore an emotional bond has developed.

This is why opening up is a good thing and not a waste of time.

The topic doesn't need to be and shouldn't be (on a date) about dating - but this is where bits and pieces of your life story, growing up etc come in.

BOTH men and women need some emotional bond but one of you has to take the first leap of faith and open up so please do try this out more.

 

I perfectly understand laughing and I go out to try accomplish this and I have got better at it, providing the person across gets my humour.

So, keep it up.

Usually the types of humour which can be a turn off are:

Belching, farting, toilet humour.

Sexual humour before it's appropriate.

Sexist humour.

Incredibly dry and leaning towards nasty humour.

Another one is humour that gets missed because your voice may not be loud enough (a pretty common trait with us shy people!!). A cough to clear your throat and one loud enough for folk to look is good for making sure your voice is loud and clear and takes just a second before you interject with something funny. But if you make people laugh you will know how far your voice carries so won't need to cough next time but also because you were funny with the last thing you said they will be watching out for the next thing you say....because they're waiting for another funny comment.

This is all best in a group obviously but still make sure what you say is loud and clear enough.

 

 

 

I am running out of time here an need to get myself off to work so replies to this last part and track events etc I will finish up tonight.

 

You may not believe me but my dates, the rare good ones do follow the rough patter mentioned above, of course I try make them feel comfortable and smile and keep things light, that's the real objective, keep things light, thing problem I have good dates the conversation flows, bad ones it dries up quickly.

 

I'll be honest enough to say I have trotted out 4 of those negatives on a few occasions.

 

Bold point 1: I have done this many times because there is only so much I can take of a teacher telling me about her students, a au pair telling me about a three year old and I can only add so much about those things, so I tend to try steer the conversation to something else.

 

Bold point 2: I don't genuinely think any of them wanted to see me again*, apart from perhaps one which I did see again when she turned up to a date with an intoxicated friend. In my opinion you have 30 min to impress someone, if you don't its a dead in the water, I wish it wasn't so but in the throw away date society you can simply if you are nice window show over and over again. Hence my unwillingness to indulge in rampant selling to try make someone like me. I always put the other person first, she if she likes me great if not well then so be it, I have learnt its pretty much impossible to change a persons mind.

 

*the other exception might be the genetics lady who drank 4 glasses of wine, she even made the date but then blocked me before it could happen.

 

I probably make it sound like I totally switch off and sometimes I have done but not lately. Some people you click with and others you don't, I click with K and a few others but they aren't into me, respect because at least I am not left wondering if they are or aren't.

 

But that being said I can identify a lot in the above post.

 

It just seems to be virtually impossible to appeal to anyone I like irrespective of what I do and opportunity cost of feeling worthless because whatever positive energy I put in becomes negative versus putting the energy into something where I can create something positive. Writing a book, launching a blog, running entities, reviewing cars, helping others, running a club, putting positive energy into those things brings positive results. Dating for is putting that energy and never getting anything positive back, that whole thought is negative but really I sit here and ask myself if its really worth it.

 

The only thing which makes it worth it is chasing the ideal, there are people who do make me feel special, very few but its that ideal which keeps me going.

[SammySammy]

Mate, it's been 22 pages.

 

Have you changed your approach in any way? Or do you feel that you are coming to any conclusions moving forward?

 

No.

 

He's been here two years.

 

Has the same negativity, pessimism, excuses, and stubborn refusal to change, learn, or grow that he had when he made his first post. Naturally, he's made no progress.

 

I'm thinking the goal is to comísserate with others, not to find solutions. This is a social and emotional outlet that's not available to him in real life. So, we talk ... about the same things ... over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Ad nauseam.

[Blanco]

No.

 

He's been here two years.

 

Has the same negativity, pessimism, excuses, and stubborn refusal to change, learn, or grow that he had when he made his first post. Naturally, he's made no progress.

 

I'm thinking the goal is to comísserate with others, not to find solutions. This is a social and emotional outlet that's not available to him in real life. So, we talk ... about the same things ... over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Ad nauseam.

 

Agreed. I think I mentioned as much two weeks ago: He's very well-spoken and has a calmer demeanor than a lot of the chronic whiners I've seen start the same type of threads again and again. But at its core, this is really no different. Just lots of round and round, with very little actual progress or shifts occurring.

 

If the OP put half as much effort into some of the recommended changes that he does into the mini-manifestos he writes about why he's got no good fortunes with women, I think he'd see some improvements. Maybe not his pie-in-the-sky dream situation, mind you. But then, I still think that is fostered by him never having had an actual relationship to show him that dating our ideal is often both unrealistic and not the only way to have a worthwhile relationship.

 

Hopefully the OP has found something to take away within the 300+ responses of this thread, but this thread has ventured into written masturbation, so perhaps it's time to move on.

[BaileyB]

If the OP put half as much effort into some of the recommended changes that he does into the mini-manifestos he writes about why he's got no good fortunes with women, I think he'd see some improvements. Maybe not his pie-in-the-sky dream situation, mind you. But then, I still think that is fostered by him never having had an actual relationship to show him that dating our ideal is often both unrealistic and not the only way to have a worthwhile relationship.

 

Absolutely agree.

[ZA Dater]

This made me giggle - that's self depreciation, humour and banter/flirting right there! :0

 

 

All good!

Synergy between work and the club is OK but as you run it I think you could kind of expand the club in a few possible different ways. I'll explain later.

 

 

Again, al the trips etc all sound like great fun things to do. What you could do (which I don't know if you already do) is when you go on the trips - even breakfast remember that you're at a venue (most likely?) so keep your eyes open, look around when you enter any and I mean ANY venue.

The person looking around and catching eyes (if you like a lady definitely look at her face and her eyes (from a distance) more than once.

You say the club is not a dating environment but actually anywhere and everywhere you go is potentially a place to meet someone.

I myself have really had to concentrate on this as I have a habit of focusing completely on who I am with and it becomes a real habit.

I can become so involved in my group of folk that I don't notice things or people around me.

Now, you are single, your group knows this so if your eyes wander off a few times or even if you politely break away from the group then they'll understand. You might get a little bit of teasing (and if you get any twerps saying 'hey he's never been on a date' then you have to find a comfortable way for you to roll with it right at the moment.

So, even though the people in your club are not single it doesn't mean you can't meet someone whilst out with the group.

There's ways to 'be seen' in venues too, say you get a couple of looks from a lady in response to yours, the next time you need to move - eg - visit the counter/the toilet/the cutlery station you walk past her. A moving object in a venue is more noticeable than a static one.

 

In the past we've also discussed your dress sense and style. I know you don't wear jeans and I think (?) you wear cargo pants (khaki green/grey/beige) relaxed fit cotton with pockets (if you know the type of thing) look great as a jeans substitute.

So, going along this line again - yeah sorry! I have 100% no doubt that if you asked a few of the married ladies in your club to get together for a day and get you kitted out - they would love to help. Choose a group of ladies who are friends and who dress well and whose husbands dress well. (one huge thing is to make sure their husbands always wear trousers which are long enough and not cut up at the ankle - this is a very common error and looks dreadful).

I think I have mentioned before to you that I've very willingly helped a few friends out who have asked me for help on this and they were 'happy as' with the results and each spent around £250 but went home with a full wardrobe of weekend clothes and tips for what suits them.

Another important thing which I read somewhere and now realise myself is that it matters more to a woman what a man is wearing than it does to a man what a woman is wearing.

Don't go for 'too smart', you want a casual look for weekends.

And, I recall you re-styled your hair - make sure you like it but keep it managed and in shape. If you don't like what you have then get recommendations from one of the guys and try out some new places and new stylists.

 

 

 

Observations are good, do this do that can get annoying (I am sure I have become annoying to you in this thread ( but remember that each situation is different and each person is different so something which didn't work for you with one person on 'X' day might work with someone else on 'Y' day.

Something to always try to remember is that a person might just be having a really bad day for whatever reason. Realising this can absolutely help with not taking things as personally. (A great book on this and a few other subjects is The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz - I seriously recommend reading this and learning how to build the principles into your life - seriously!)

But, as I said earlier - always keep your eyes open, even out at the grocery store or DIY store (a very good place to meet someone actually).

 

 

 

So, let's flip this a bit.

What you have here is women you are attracted to whom you have opened up to (or they have you) and therefore an emotional bond has developed.

This is why opening up is a good thing and not a waste of time.

The topic doesn't need to be and shouldn't be (on a date) about dating - but this is where bits and pieces of your life story, growing up etc come in.

BOTH men and women need some emotional bond but one of you has to take the first leap of faith and open up so please do try this out more.

 

 

So, keep it up.

Usually the types of humour which can be a turn off are:

Belching, farting, toilet humour.

Sexual humour before it's appropriate.

Sexist humour.

Incredibly dry and leaning towards nasty humour.

Another one is humour that gets missed because your voice may not be loud enough (a pretty common trait with us shy people!!). A cough to clear your throat and one loud enough for folk to look is good for making sure your voice is loud and clear and takes just a second before you interject with something funny. But if you make people laugh you will know how far your voice carries so won't need to cough next time but also because you were funny with the last thing you said they will be watching out for the next thing you say....because they're waiting for another funny comment.

This is all best in a group obviously but still make sure what you say is loud and clear enough.

 

 

 

I am running out of time here an need to get myself off to work so replies to this last part and track events etc I will finish up tonight.

 

Some vey good insight there! Thank you!

 

 

In terms of dress I tend to dress "skinny" which works with my physique, that being more athletic than muscle bound. So its mainly skinny trousers which fit basically the same way jeans do.

 

 

Admittedly I must say it was nice having someone telling me what I looked good in and what didn't work (she is a model and in some ways has a story not too dissimilar to mine in some respects) and I could gain some confidence and do gain confidence by knowing I look quite good.

 

 

Hair is slicked back Woolf of Wall Street Style (cant thing of any other way to describe it).

 

 

Agreed on the bond thing, sometimes it works and other times not, I sometimes think that bond needs to be relatable to some extent, if it isn't its much harder to get that bond. For better or worse people tend to describe me as very honest, in fact someone I know quite well phones me when she needs an honest opinion.

 

 

I don't suffer from a quite voice but I am quite measured in how I speak, preferring to listen first, perhaps thoughtful would be best to describe it BUT the awkwardness can be a severe problem and it spins off a lack of confidence. I try hide it, really I do but somehow it will come out somehow.

 

 

Maybe I don't show enough enthusiasm towards some dates but truthfully if I think back many of them I shouldn't have even been on because the people weren't that attractive.

 

 

I'll try change tact and see if people catch my eye and try and ignore the fact that seemingly everyone I run into isn't single! OLD is much easier though I will admit even if the selection is awful, you introduce yourself and if she you get a reply great if not, move on. In person you just feel like an idiot, an awkward one in my case.

[ZA Dater]

Agreed. I think I mentioned as much two weeks ago: He's very well-spoken and has a calmer demeanor than a lot of the chronic whiners I've seen start the same type of threads again and again. But at its core, this is really no different. Just lots of round and round, with very little actual progress or shifts occurring.

 

If the OP put half as much effort into some of the recommended changes that he does into the mini-manifestos he writes about why he's got no good fortunes with women, I think he'd see some improvements. Maybe not his pie-in-the-sky dream situation, mind you. But then, I still think that is fostered by him never having had an actual relationship to show him that dating our ideal is often both unrealistic and not the only way to have a worthwhile relationship.

 

Hopefully the OP has found something to take away within the 300+ responses of this thread, but this thread has ventured into written masturbation, so perhaps it's time to move on.

 

Not sure how you ascertain how much or how little effort I put in, if there is someone I like and it appears I have a realistic chance then yes I put the effort in.

[Blanco]

Not sure how you ascertain how much or how little effort I put in, if there is someone I like and it appears I have a realistic chance then yes I put the effort in.

 

And since you've convinced yourself you don't have a realistic chance with anyone you actually find desirable, effort on your part to actually generate different results is minimal.

[GemmaUK]

I don't suffer from a quite voice but I am quite measured in how I speak, preferring to listen first, perhaps thoughtful would be best to describe it BUT the awkwardness can be a severe problem and it spins off a lack of confidence. I try hide it, really I do but somehow it will come out somehow.

 

I honestly intended to come back and post last night but I came down feeling poorly yesterday afternoon and now you've just dropped another few little nuggets of info in here.

 

Can you describe to me the awkwardness bit please?

How do you mean? How does it manifest? I don't need you to tell me how you feel when it happens as I know (I used to be awkward myself - a lot less so now but it still crops up sometimes! Lol!).

 

Give me a bit more info and I can give a fuller reply.

[ZA Dater]

I honestly intended to come back and post last night but I came down feeling poorly yesterday afternoon and now you've just dropped another few little nuggets of info in here.

 

Can you describe to me the awkwardness bit please?

How do you mean? How does it manifest? I don't need you to tell me how you feel when it happens as I know (I used to be awkward myself - a lot less so now but it still crops up sometimes! Lol!).

 

Give me a bit more info and I can give a fuller reply.

 

Hope you feel better soon.

 

 

I guess could be described as self conscious, which is quite stupid actually but I feel this huge pressure so I become nervous BUT I must say this doesn't happen all the time, sometimes its fine, other times not.

 

 

Thinking about it, a lot probably has to do with me trying to make the most of a situation.

[GemmaUK]

Hope you feel better soon.

 

 

I guess could be described as self conscious, which is quite stupid actually but I feel this huge pressure so I become nervous BUT I must say this doesn't happen all the time, sometimes its fine, other times not.

 

 

Thinking about it, a lot probably has to do with me trying to make the most of a situation.

 

Thanks ZA! I felt rough as anything last night!

 

Trying too hard?

 

If you have missed the opportunity to open a door (just an example) then do you try to not miss it but rushing to the door?

If you are there at the time then great, if you are not don't jump to try to rectify - why? It looks too much and yes it looks awkward. Not being right time right place is OK but jumping to something - like a door can make a person startled.

 

If this isn't what you mean then I need examples to understand what you mean - but also please add other examples.

[ZA Dater]

Thanks to everyone who contributed ideas and suggestions. I have made a list of what I am going to try and how.

 

 

Mostly I am just going to enjoy life, do the things I enjoy and be happy that I can do those things and enjoy those experiences.

 

 

I realise the sentiment here is to some negative towards me, which is fine, opinions are valued even negative ones.

[ZA Dater]

Small update. Yes, you can sometimes have what you want, even if fleetingly and it was a reminder that when it good its really good. For many here its seems odd but I had a really nice lunch last Sunday, the idea wasn't really to end up having a lunch at all but it just happened.

 

 

It will only ever be friends but it was still nice to laugh, try out some of the advice given here (it does work) and made me realise once again that you need to really appreciate these moments.

 

 

It was a simple lunch but I really enjoyed it and so did she.