When you like what you cant have?

[Miss Spider]

Welp, looks like you have reached a stalemate with reality. Very few young singles do not go to bars, even less of them fit your rigid standards, and even less of them are mutually interested. Drop standards or join me in the never-ending quest for our unicorns.

[ZA Dater]

Welp, looks like you have reached a stalemate with reality. Very few young singles do not go to bars, even less of them fit your rigid standards, and even less of them are mutually interested. Drop standards or join me in the never-ending quest for our unicorns.

 

The good thing is unicorns do exist....I have been lucky enough to meet a handful or so.

[NuevoYorko]

This is where I beg to differ with your sage advice. What is point of doing things which make you unhappy?

 

OK. in my significant life experience, I have learned that with very few exceptions, we have to go through difficulties and things we "don't like" in order to achieve something we desire. The desire needs to be bigger than our distaste for the various efforts involved to get there.

 

Also, I think there's a problem with how easy it is for external factors to "make" you unhappy. The state of unhappiness generally comes from within a person. If you could get to the bottom of why having a beverage with somebody in an environment that's not your exact cup of tea has so much power over you I think you might be able to move on.

[ZA Dater]

OK. in my significant life experience, I have learned that with very few exceptions, we have to go through difficulties and things we "don't like" in order to achieve something we desire. The desire needs to be bigger than our distaste for the various efforts involved to get there.

 

Also, I think there's a problem with how easy it is for external factors to "make" you unhappy. The state of unhappiness generally comes from within a person. If you could get to the bottom of why having a beverage with somebody in an environment that's not your exact cup of tea has so much power over you I think you might be able to move on.

 

Because I don't drink and every single time I go on dates to bars and clubs I am instantly judged for not partaking and when you don't other people look at you strangely, in one instance we got on superbly but the entire thing was killed "I want someone I can enjoy a bottle of wine with".

 

 

Frankly a comment like that tends to make my cynical. Sadly growing up in my extended family I saw the harm alcohol can do and when I am out I am once again reminded of that, more because the fact an intoxicated person has no logic or reason, I just don't find them fun to be around and they are generally more than the majority at such places.

 

 

I simply put don't fit in at clubs and bars because no intellectual ability is required when you cannot even hear yourself think. Thinking is something I do a lot of, all the time, I am always looking ahead, trying to strategize in my head. Which is probably why I am described by some as intense. Whether this developed as some sort of distraction I don't know.

 

 

The bold. How much do I really want it, I suppose it depends what I realistically think I can accomplish. A few years ago I took someone absolutely gorgeous on a date, her personality was as beautiful as her physical looks and that date was pretty special. That date to me was an accomplishment of sort. A few years after that I another date where again I was really impressed overall. Neither involved going to clubs, maybe I got unusually lucky but both dates I look back on with a certain degree of fondness.

 

 

Just yesterday I met someone nice, get on well with her: married, few weeks ago, met a personal trainer, no surprise, not single. In Feb met someone, asked her out: not single.

 

 

At some point I think one reaches a point where "is this really so fantastic to keep wanting", had it not been for the two dates mentioned above I would have given up a long time ago, the fading hope of trying to replicate those special experiences is about the only thing that keeps me looking.

[CptInsano]

Because I don't drink and every single time I go on dates to bars and clubs I am instantly judged for not partaking and when you don't other people look at you strangely, in one instance we got on superbly but the entire thing was killed "I want someone I can enjoy a bottle of wine with". [/Quote]

 

Fine, look for another woman then. There are plenty that don't drink. My last gf was one of them.

 

Frankly a comment like that tends to make my cynical. Sadly growing up in my extended family I saw the harm alcohol can do and when I am out I am once again reminded of that, more because the fact an intoxicated person has no logic or reason, I just don't find them fun to be around and they are generally more than the majority at such places.

 

Now that is just you. Many families have a that experience, unfortunately. Using my ex as a reference again, she would still go to bars and clubs, even if just to dance. She only requested that I don't drink in her presence, which was fine by me. Do you see the difference?

 

I simply put don't fit in at clubs and bars because no intellectual ability is required when you cannot even hear yourself think. Thinking is something I do a lot of, all the time, I am always looking ahead, trying to strategize in my head. Which is probably why I am described by some as intense. Whether this developed as some sort of distraction I don't know.

 

I'm not that fond of them, either. However, I will go with a group or with a gf. Not everything needs to be black and white. Not every place is about deep thought, nor should it be.

 

I'm wondering how you would imagine a relationship with those women you met on your perfect dates. Compromises during the dating phase are relatively minor compared to the ones required for a relationship.

Edited August 7, 2017 by CptInsano

[ZA Dater]

Fine, look for another woman then. There are plenty that don't drink. My last gf was one of them.

 

 

 

Now that is just you. Many families have a that experience, unfortunately. Using my ex as a reference again, she would still go to bars and clubs, even if just to dance. She only requested that I don't drink in her presence, which was fine by me. Do you see the difference?

 

 

 

I'm not that fond of them, either. However, I will go with a group or with a gf. Not everything needs to be black and white. Not every place is about deep thought, nor should it be.

 

I'm wondering how you would imagine a relationship with those women you met on your perfect dates. Compromises during the dating phase are relatively minor compared to the ones required for a relationship.

 

I have only ever met one.

 

 

I have no issue with compromise but if the foundation isn't there, i.e. a total mismatch them you are already at the limit of compromise and doing more is risking bending over backward and then you become that nice guy someone mentioned with no spine.

 

 

In some ways I have found something interesting, a Skype friend, she lives in Eastern Europe, seems honest enough, interesting enough and has different perspectives on life. Yes, I know I am going to hear the age old warnings and yes most of them are true but its quite nice having someone actually take an interest in me.

[littleblackheart]

OP, I'm going to go ahead and ask you straight:

 

are you, by any chance, a high functioning Aspergian?

 

Please don't take this as an offence (really, it's genuinely meant to be a helpful suggestion) - it's not a disease, the misconceptions around it are mostly borne of judgmental ignorance and it's quite okay to manage once you know what you're dealing with (and I should know, having Asperger's myself!!).

 

Your comments about small talk, preferring deep conversations, the aversion to change, somewhat black and white views and reluctance at simply taking the advice give, the mind blindedness (an actual thing that laypeople offer conflate with a lack of empathy or narcissism when it's just a difficulty to imagine putting yourself in someone else's shoes) made me think of that.

 

You can totally ignore this comment if that doesn't apply, I won't take it personally, but I thought it was worth mentioning it, and maybe help put things in context .

Edited August 8, 2017 by littleblackheart

[CptInsano]

I have only ever met one.

 

I'm surprised how manage to meet so few women who don't drink. If you include women who drink very little their numbers are quite large. I mean, I run into them without specifically trying.

 

I have no issue with compromise but if the foundation isn't there, i.e. a total mismatch them you are already at the limit of compromise and doing more is risking bending over backward and then you become that nice guy someone mentioned with no spine.

[/Quote]

 

No, you don't. I find that my relationships work better with women who are distinctly different than I, somebody adds to my own experiences, skills and traits. I used to look for women who were like me, but there was no tension, no spark. Yes, I've always had healthy debates in my relatonships, yet that doesn't mean you bend backwards for somebody. For example, one of my gfs was a vegetarian. It didn't kill me to eat vegetarian at home as long as she didn't mind me eat meat elsewhere.

 

Relationships will be full of these little arrangements to support a common goal. If you get hung up on those little things you will have a very hard time.

[ZA Dater]

OP, I'm going to go ahead and ask you straight:

 

are you, by any chance, a high functioning Aspergian?

 

Please don't take this as an offence (really, it's genuinely meant to be a helpful suggestion) - it's not a disease, the misconceptions around it are mostly borne of judgmental ignorance and it's quite okay to manage once you know what you're dealing with (and I should know, having Asperger's myself!!).

 

Your comments about small talk, preferring deep conversations, the aversion to change, somewhat black and white views and reluctance at simply taking the advice give, the mind blindedness (an actual thing that laypeople offer conflate with a lack of empathy or narcissism when it's just a difficulty to imagine putting yourself in someone else's shoes) made me think of that.

 

You can totally ignore this comment if that doesn't apply, I won't take it personally, but I thought it was worth mentioning it, and maybe help put things in context .

 

I don't mind questions and no I am not.

 

 

I take all advice given and then try and apply it to the situations I find myself in. Nobody lives the same sort of life, we are all different so there is no real one cure works for all.

 

 

When it comes to empathy I have a great deal of it, when there is volunteering to be done I am always the first to do so, I like helping others because lets face it the world is very "me" centric.

 

 

My issues are probably overt shyness mixed with a limited social life. Unfortunately from very young I had a single mindedness about what I hoped to accomplish and I have been partially successful at beating the odds but its been a lonely journey where the sacrifice I made was a social one.

 

 

If anything the disaster that is dating has made me take note people who do find success at it that bit more, yes its irritating I never have any luck but equally its good to see people who do have success. The problem is I just look at myself and wonder many things. Yes, its not the be all and end all of everything but its nice to have someone take an interest in you.

[littleblackheart]

I don't mind questions and no I am not.

 

 

I take all advice given and then try and apply it to the situations I find myself in. Nobody lives the same sort of life, we are all different so there is no real one cure works for all.

 

 

When it comes to empathy I have a great deal of it, when there is volunteering to be done I am always the first to do so, I like helping others because lets face it the world is very "me" centric.

 

 

My issues are probably overt shyness mixed with a limited social life. Unfortunately from very young I had a single mindedness about what I hoped to accomplish and I have been partially successful at beating the odds but its been a lonely journey where the sacrifice I made was a social one.

 

 

If anything the disaster that is dating has made me take note people who do find success at it that bit more, yes its irritating I never have any luck but equally its good to see people who do have success. The problem is I just look at myself and wonder many things. Yes, its not the be all and end all of everything but its nice to have someone take an interest in you.

 

Fair enough, thank you for the reply.

 

Have you thought of moving away and starting a fresh life somewhere new, now that you have achieve what you set out to do? Maybe your current environment isn't adapted to your preferred lifestyle?

[ZA Dater]

I'm surprised how manage to meet so few women who don't drink. If you include women who drink very little their numbers are quite large. I mean, I run into them without specifically trying.

 

 

 

No, you don't. I find that my relationships work better with women who are distinctly different than I, somebody adds to my own experiences, skills and traits. I used to look for women who were like me, but there was no tension, no spark. Yes, I've always had healthy debates in my relatonships, yet that doesn't mean you bend backwards for somebody. For example, one of my gfs was a vegetarian. It didn't kill me to eat vegetarian at home as long as she didn't mind me eat meat elsewhere.

 

Relationships will be full of these little arrangements to support a common goal. If you get hung up on those little things you will have a very hard time.

 

I don't really mind those sorts of compromises, that's life, one of compromise but its subjective how far you go in lifestyle compromises, for example I'd do clubs but never every weekend. I wont drink irrespective.

 

 

The issue is SA has a pretty big drinking culture, it tends to swing between that and highly religious, I am not the one and I am not the other.

 

 

When I mean look, I mean look what might be compatible with me. Its pointless chasing someone who has nothing in common with me at all, there are some people who could work but socially it just doesn't work, they are outgoing and I am not so any sort of common ground is gone.

 

 

I chased the infamous K for so long because ostensibly I could see it could work from a social point of view, she felt otherwise. In other words I chase where I believe there to be a reasonable chance of success. Maybe this is done because I'd rather have some small amount of success than total failure.

 

 

Maybe I am just not interesting enough, maybe I have created an overly work centric life, I don't know really. I do a few glamour things but maybe they don't appeal, maybe people don't like that sort of environment. Again I don't know.

[ZA Dater]

Fair enough, thank you for the reply.

 

Have you thought of moving away and starting a fresh life somewhere new, now that you have achieve what you set out to do? Maybe your current environment isn't adapted to your preferred lifestyle?

 

I have thought about that but I have a lot more I want to accomplish here, the old adage of grass not always greener on the other side pops to mind.

 

 

Point taken though, the fact I find foreigners infinitely more interesting and friendly is perhaps part of it, where I live is known to be extremely cliquey and far better offerings than me have struggled to date here.

[littleblackheart]

I have thought about that but I have a lot more I want to accomplish here, the old adage of grass not always greener on the other side pops to mind.

 

 

Point taken though, the fact I find foreigners infinitely more interesting and friendly is perhaps part of it, where I live is known to be extremely cliquey and far better offerings than me have struggled to date here.

 

Well, maybe it's a case of Colin Frissell from 'Love Actually' - down on his luck in England, a sex god in the US.

 

[normal person]

When I mean look, I mean look what might be compatible with me. Its pointless chasing someone who has nothing in common with me at all, there are some people who could work but socially it just doesn't work, they are outgoing and I am not so any sort of common ground is gone.

 

Perhaps reconsider your position on what constitutes "compatibility." Maybe your lack of experience has given you a limited perspective on the things in a partner that are really important. As I've said, I've never met someone whose interests really aligned with mine, yet I have no problem dating those people. I think having a lot of shared interests is more of a luxury than a necessity. If she likes golf and you like tennis, that doesn't mean you're incompatible. If you align on the bigger bullet points like values, ethics, goals, sense of humor, etc, then that's probably a much bigger indicator of compatibility, in my opinion. I think those things will allow you greater ease to enjoy someone's company regardless of what activity you're actually doing.

 

Maybe I am just not interesting enough, maybe I have created an overly work centric life, I don't know really. I do a few glamour things but maybe they don't appeal, maybe people don't like that sort of environment. Again I don't know.

 

Doubtful. Everyone's different and there's invariably something interesting about that. What's your defining personality trait? I got on this topic when I was out with someone recently and she instantly perked up. I think leaning on that really helps to characterize and set you apart. If I were you I'd confidently embrace a trait that makes you different (without being judgmental about people who think/do differently). I think there's appeal in being candid about what you're passionate about -- but not if you preface them like you did in the paragraph above like "maybe it's not interesting enough, maybe it doesn't appeal, maybe it's not my environment, etc" That's the unappealing part of it. But it'd be interesting to know about those things if you were enthusiastic about them and could convey that. But if you're dour and reluctant, it's going to seem like insecurity to someone and that's not very attractive. Embrace what you like and what makes you different -- yes, you still might have to compromise and do these things in a bar or some other place you despise -- if you can do it conviction I'm confident it'll have positive results.

[ZA Dater]

Perhaps reconsider your position on what constitutes "compatibility." Maybe your lack of experience has given you a limited perspective on the things in a partner that are really important. As I've said, I've never met someone whose interests really aligned with mine, yet I have no problem dating those people. I think having a lot of shared interests is more of a luxury than a necessity. If she likes golf and you like tennis, that doesn't mean you're incompatible. If you align on the bigger bullet points like values, ethics, goals, sense of humor, etc, then that's probably a much bigger indicator of compatibility, in my opinion. I think those things will allow you greater ease to enjoy someone's company regardless of what activity you're actually doing.

 

 

 

Doubtful. Everyone's different and there's invariably something interesting about that. What's your defining personality trait? I got on this topic when I was out with someone recently and she instantly perked up. I think leaning on that really helps to characterize and set you apart. If I were you I'd confidently embrace a trait that makes you different (without being judgmental about people who think/do differently). I think there's appeal in being candid about what you're passionate about -- but not if you preface them like you did in the paragraph above like "maybe it's not interesting enough, maybe it doesn't appeal, maybe it's not my environment, etc" That's the unappealing part of it. But it'd be interesting to know about those things if you were enthusiastic about them and could convey that. But if you're dour and reluctant, it's going to seem like insecurity to someone and that's not very attractive. Embrace what you like and what makes you different -- yes, you still might have to compromise and do these things in a bar or some other place you despise -- if you can do it conviction I'm confident it'll have positive results.

 

All 100% true I think.

 

 

I need some common interests in order to actually get some sort of connection started. Values and ethics are quite subjective and not learnt quickly, in my experience you need to spend extended time with a person to begin to learn those things.

 

 

I am going to ask the next person I meet that same question.

 

 

Yes, its good to embrace being different with conviction and I do that but I also realise it comes at a cost in terms of appeal. Sure, you might be able to use humour to get around it or perhaps charm but if you list of talents doesn't really have those two its quite difficult. Of course that can be faked and I have tried from time to time with little to some success.

 

 

It is as you say though, you need to somehow capture the imagination of someone in some way.

 

 

Dour is probably one of my lease appealing character traits which I know makes me universally unappealing but I can turn that on and off and I do get enthusiastic about what makes me different but often people just simply don't relate.

 

 

Maybe I just simply lack enough motivation to chase, maybe I have chased too much, maybe the realist in me sees what is possible and doesn't really like that so its easier to turn away from something I don't like than try get something I do like. Being bluntly honest here.

 

 

Its interesting to see people who get this right, literally some guys I know have that utter gift of charm allied to supreme self confidence, to me that's the difference really between them and me and perhaps they are more conventionally interesting. I guess it does help if you have a good circle of friends and can meet people like that, that appears to be a fairly big advantage or you like music or festivals, those seem to help to.

 

 

I suppose yes if I went to those things feigned interest I could probably get somewhere but I suspect no drinking wouldn't really work. By the same token if I joined a church I might have some success there. My observation is people like to be bound together by some sort of social glue and those that aren't tend to stick out.

[bebe23]

All 100% true I think.

 

Maybe I just simply lack enough motivation to chase, maybe I have chased too much, maybe the realist in me sees what is possible and doesn't really like that so its easier to turn away from something I don't like than try get something I do like. Being bluntly honest here.

 

 

The bolded really shows ZA's attitude very well. He uses the word 'something' in his posts quite often and that means women. "THING." You see?

 

It's very impersonal. As if women are OBJECTS. And he wants the best-looking OBJECT. Women pick up on that, and if he's trying hard to be intellectual or 'nice' and is actually very socially awkward he probably comes off as 'robotic.'

 

"Dour" is not a very appealing personality trait either. I really hope that ZA could go to a therapist and get tested for being on the spectrum. From his posting style, he could be a very high-IQ person who happens to be on the Aspergers/Autism spectrum. If that is the case, it's not his fault that he's robotic, or he thinks of any woman as a 'something.'

 

He can get therapy and HELP for that. I feel bad for him that he keeps starting these threads and running in circles over and over again.

[ZA Dater]

The bolded really shows ZA's attitude very well. He uses the word 'something' in his posts quite often and that means women. "THING." You see?

 

It's very impersonal. As if women are OBJECTS. And he wants the best-looking OBJECT. Women pick up on that, and if he's trying hard to be intellectual or 'nice' and is actually very socially awkward he probably comes off as 'robotic.'

 

"Dour" is not a very appealing personality trait either. I really hope that ZA could go to a therapist and get tested for being on the spectrum. From his posting style, he could be a very high-IQ person who happens to be on the Aspergers/Autism spectrum. If that is the case, it's not his fault that he's robotic, or he thinks of any woman as a 'something.'

 

He can get therapy and HELP for that. I feel bad for him that he keeps starting these threads and running in circles over and over again.

 

Some words are reactionary. Trust me I don't have either of those symptoms but I am glad I appear intelligent, in reality I think I am just like everyone else.

 

 

Perhaps I do come off as robotic, perhaps dour. Until people get to know me, that's the kicker, people who do get to know me inevitable seem to find something nice about me, note the word "nice". Perhaps what people seek is instant gratification, understandable and respected. Perhaps I need to practice some sham of an introduction to overcome this.

 

 

I must say though its a first being crucified for admitting I like attractive people .

[normal person]

I need some common interests in order to actually get some sort of connection started. Values and ethics are quite subjective and not learnt quickly, in my experience you need to spend extended time with a person to begin to learn those things.

 

Not even common interests. Common values and ethics can be portrayed easier than you thought. I met a girl recently and we were both really early to the restaurant. We laughed and talked about why. We both were very adherent to standards, time was valuable, being late had bad implications, a bad first impression, etc. We bonded over something as simple as that and realized we had something important in common and were both a very similar personality type.

 

 

Yes, its good to embrace being different with conviction and I do that but I also realise it comes at a cost in terms of appeal.

 

Yeah, but the threat of losing appeal has never been important to you before, so you really shouldn't use it as an excuse now. Everyone's different. Everyone has idiosyncrasies. Find a way to display yours confidently without it being "too much." Admittedly with that girl described above, we had a perfect, basically magical date until I let some idiosyncrasies flash a little too much without tempering them down. Shot myself in the foot and I'll be regretting it for a long time.

 

Not everyone will get on board with what you bring to the table, so if they don't, ok, accept it and move on to someone who hopefully will. Just try and find a tasteful way to show it.

 

The bolded really shows ZA's attitude very well. He uses the word 'something' in his posts quite often and that means women. "THING." You see?

 

It's very impersonal. As if women are OBJECTS. And he wants the best-looking OBJECT. Women pick up on that, and if he's trying hard to be intellectual or 'nice' and is actually very socially awkward he probably comes off as 'robotic.'

 

In all fairness, I'm sure this is just an issue of semantics or message board-ese. In spite of whatever else he's got going on, it's pretty clear he's the furthest thing from a misogynist you're ever going to find. Sometimes advice or questions applies to more than just a person, it applies to a goal or something greater. In those cases, it's very convenient to say something akin to "If you want something, you need to go after it." That can be applied to people and things with no sexist overtone. Admittedly I'm as hard on him as anyone, but c'mon, there's no fire here.

[ZA Dater]

Not even common interests. Common values and ethics can be portrayed easier than you thought. I met a girl recently and we were both really early to the restaurant. We laughed and talked about why. We both were very adherent to standards, time was valuable, being late had bad implications, a bad first impression, etc. We bonded over something as simple as that and realized we had something important in common and were both a very similar personality type.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, but the threat of losing appeal has never been important to you before, so you really shouldn't use it as an excuse now. Everyone's different. Everyone has idiosyncrasies. Find a way to display yours confidently without it being "too much." Admittedly with that girl described above, we had a perfect, basically magical date until I let some idiosyncrasies flash a little too much without tempering them down. Shot myself in the foot and I'll be regretting it for a long time.

 

Not everyone will get on board with what you bring to the table, so if they don't, ok, accept it and move on to someone who hopefully will. Just try and find a tasteful way to show it.

 

 

 

In all fairness, I'm sure this is just an issue of semantics or message board-ese. In spite of whatever else he's got going on, it's pretty clear he's the furthest thing from a misogynist you're ever going to find. Sometimes advice or questions applies to more than just a person, it applies to a goal or something greater. In those cases, it's very convenient to say something akin to "If you want something, you need to go after it." That can be applied to people and things with no sexist overtone. Admittedly I'm as hard on him as anyone, but c'mon, there's no fire here.

 

I get the "shot myself in the foot feeling", had that happen a few times and often because I sometimes said something pretty stupid, worse still I often realised it right after I said it...though having said don't you wonder why you were not judged on the whole date rather to small aspects of it?

 

 

Agreed it is possible to bond over something small, I can usually find something to talk to a date about, even if its usually just about them but the bonding part never seems to really happen, whether I am guilty of reducing the whole thing to business speak I don't really know.

 

 

Probably because I cannot find any real way of showing interest, read up on this a few times and there is nothing really concrete, in that sense I either don't think enough or over think.

[GemmaUK]

Not even common interests. Common values and ethics can be portrayed easier than you thought.

 

I agree, there's tonnes of ways to figure out a person's values pretty early on - humour is the easiest way to do this.

 

I think alos and have been thinking for a while that you say people aren't deep conversationalists enough for you.

That stuff often takes time but you don't stick around long enough to find out.

 

It's as if you want absolute perfection right away when you don't really have much experience of dating at all.

Dating is meant to be fun - especially so in the early stages. Having fun is letting loose, doing things you wouldn't usually do for the experience - AND for the 'relationship experience' also.

 

People as a general rule also behave somewhat differently depending upon who they are with. I don't ever expect a partner to be a one stop shop for all of my needs - that is way too much pressure to put on someone.

Maybe you need to get your fix of deep conversation from elsewhere - join a debating group or something similar - separate this from dating so that with dating you only feel the need to have fun.

 

You're not going to get straight off deep conversations from a date right away, first off people want to know if they can have fun together - without fun any tough times are going to be very tough to get through.

Fun raises endorphins.

[ZA Dater]

I agree, there's tonnes of ways to figure out a person's values pretty early on - humour is the easiest way to do this.

 

I think alos and have been thinking for a while that you say people aren't deep conversationalists enough for you.

That stuff often takes time but you don't stick around long enough to find out.

 

It's as if you want absolute perfection right away when you don't really have much experience of dating at all.

Dating is meant to be fun - especially so in the early stages. Having fun is letting loose, doing things you wouldn't usually do for the experience - AND for the 'relationship experience' also.

 

People as a general rule also behave somewhat differently depending upon who they are with. I don't ever expect a partner to be a one stop shop for all of my needs - that is way too much pressure to put on someone.

Maybe you need to get your fix of deep conversation from elsewhere - join a debating group or something similar - separate this from dating so that with dating you only feel the need to have fun.

 

You're not going to get straight off deep conversations from a date right away, first off people want to know if they can have fun together - without fun any tough times are going to be very tough to get through.

Fun raises endorphins.

 

Again I think you are probably 100% right. I have never really been the fun sort of guy though which I suppose goes some way to explain the lack of success I tend to have. By the same token nobody sticks around to get to know me either...

 

 

For me I find it difficult to separate fun and enjoyable things, maybe they are one in the same, maybe they aren't. Its also true to say there are some people who, as you say bring out different things in me but for the most part I am quite guarded and measured in my reactions.

 

 

I wouldn't say I crave deep conversation but someone intelligent is always good, when I say that I mean someone knowledgeable about things, anything really but many things are better than one.

 

 

In probability I need to try and adapt to a different way of thinking to find any degree of success which isn't easy at all. Something I didn't post here was the time I did actually try and charm someone, we had/have a lot in common in terms of interests etc. but I was passed up, older more successful guy preferred. With her I simply just tried to be fun, tried to be flirty but ostensibly I knew I wasn't going to succeed.

 

 

It was good to try and push the comfort zone and be a bit less shy and more outgoing but again it worked because there were some common interests. There is a model I get along with fairly well but its more of a friend zone type thing, I see who she chases and again that's not me so I'd never actually try doing more than the occasional chat.

 

 

I'll say this it must be quite nice to have mutual attraction.

[normal person]

I get the "shot myself in the foot feeling", had that happen a few times and often because I sometimes said something pretty stupid, worse still I often realised it right after I said it...though having said don't you wonder why you were not judged on the whole date rather to small aspects of it?

 

No, I don't wonder, because the date went incredibly well and I wasn't being judged on that. She said she had a great time and would've gone out with me again otherwise, she just couldn't get over the high risk/high reward nature of my work (which is understandable), the shot in the foot came from the way I described it/other aspects.

 

Agreed it is possible to bond over something small, I can usually find something to talk to a date about, even if its usually just about them but the bonding part never seems to really happen, whether I am guilty of reducing the whole thing to business speak I don't really know.

 

"Finding" something to talk about shouldn't be too laborious though. Look for commonalities in statements and experiences and run with it. If you're struggling, it might just be the wrong person. That's why I don't really date girls who I don't vibe that well with in messages/texts, the level or rapport usually translates well to real life conversations.

 

Probably because I cannot find any real way of showing interest, read up on this a few times and there is nothing really concrete, in that sense I either don't think enough or over think.

 

Presumably if you're on a date with someone, you're interested. It's then not too much to smile, pay a low-pressure compliment, say you're having a nice time, etc. Just go with what feels natural, but try not to overdo it early on.

[Miss Spider]

Some women like Mr. Serious...but bubbly ones usually go for more fun guys. I can see a very intellectual woman liking a serious man

[NuevoYorko]

Just to get back to the original question: Most of us with any maturity have experienced wanting what we can't have multiple times in our lives. The key is to not let that experience hold us back from creating a life that is rich with the things we want and can have rather than letting the disappointments define us.

 

Once you get that, your life will be a lot different.

[GemmaUK]

I'm gonna reply to some bits, ass something to NP's last post and add some bits at the end - this will be a mish mash post basically of various things.

Apologies for words or things in capitals - it's to emphasise the word or few words and is the easiest way - I am not shouting.

 

Again I think you are probably 100% right. I have never really been the fun sort of guy though which I suppose goes some way to explain the lack of success I tend to have. By the same token nobody sticks around to get to know me either...

Maybe it's because you don't appear to have fun with them. This can either lead to them feeling like you're not laughing at the same things so not on the same wavelength (you may appear old and stuffy) or this can also appear as if you are just way too serious - about everything.

All of us - all - including you if you're honest with yourself want to have fun on a date.

 

For me I find it difficult to separate fun and enjoyable things, maybe they are one in the same, maybe they aren't.

They are pretty much the same thing. BUT if you are with ANOTHER PERSON doing things then if you don't EXPRESS fun and that you are enjoying it they will never really know that you are.

 

Its also true to say there are some people who, as you say bring out different things in me but for the most part I am quite guarded and measured in my reactions.[/quote[

With some people this is the way to be - with those you have no tr real trust with. Over time with those you realise you can trust though opening up just in baby steps is and can be a great thing to do.

As long as when you do open up it's not ALWAYS about dating or ALWAYS about this or that - make it good things and the not so good things - don't dwell on one thing nor always have a problem.

 

 

I wouldn't say I crave deep conversation but someone intelligent is always good, when I say that I mean someone knowledgeable about things, anything really but many things are better than one.

Knowledgeable about what? I am knowledgeable about lots of things - none of which I would ever consider talking about on a date.

Are you looking for passion in a subject from someone?

If you are then - well - what if make up is her passion and she knows all about it. Or me - I have curly hair and know all about how to care for it.

I could tell you loads of stuff but I would likely bore you rigid. I have had no choice in the past telling a guy I'm dating a little bit but it's not a subject I would force him or anyone to endure unless they wanted to know.

By the way this doesn't mean I am not an excel geek, doesn't mean I am not interested (or recently even more demoralised by) politics, it doesn't mean I am concerned about the rise in acid crime in the UK - more importantly though in India where it's rife. But these are all things I wouldn't bring to a date.

 

 

It was good to try and push the comfort zone and be a bit less shy and more outgoing

So you enjoyed it to some extent - build on that.

I bet it wasn't just good but that it was actually fun - it was different, you didn't hate it - you said it was good!

 

"Finding" something to talk about shouldn't be too laborious though. Look for commonalities in statements and experiences and run with it. If you're struggling, it might just be the wrong person. That's why I don't really date girls who I don't vibe that well with in messages/texts, the level or rapport usually translates well to real life conversations.

Finding something to talk about Is easier than that NP.

This is why an activity - a market, a fair, a music festival, a car rally - all are great for dates. You know this NP - you just didn't twig it. ZA needs to know.

 

See my post in here to a young man going on a first date for what I mean - surroundings matter.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/631612-date-fair

 

OK ZA, another couple of suggestions - you HAVE TO start opening up a bit more to suggestions if you want this instead of just wanting to complain about this.

 

Join an amature dramatics group in a local theatre - PURELY to learn how to fake it til you make it.

I was hugely shy as a kid - I had a lot of stuff going on - I seriously became aware my Mum was going to die when I was around 11-13 and it hit me badly.

At the same time though I was in a drama class at school and we did a play.

I was the lowest of the low character in The Importance of Being Earnest. My Mum and Dad came )I tried to stop them) but I nailed it! I had so many other parents come up to me after saying how amazing I was and how funny.

 

I loved doing it - I didn't need to be shy as I wasn't being me - but it taught me to be animated so I could EXPRESS fun.

 

Another option if you are not ready for that is a course in Presentation Skills.

I have known a few folk try this to just open up a bit more and learn how to engage. It's not the type of thing that is just a course - you apply it every day, every moment of every day.

 

If you try either (but I fully expect you will have an excuse not to even think abut either suggestion unfortunately - I'd love if you took a suggestion by the horns and just tried it) then don't go thinking you will meet a date - it's for your growth.