When you like what you cant have?

August 11, 2017

Some women like Mr. Serious...but bubbly ones usually go for more fun guys. I can see a very intellectual woman liking a serious man

I'm an intelligent, well-educated woman who is definitely attracted to intellectual men. But, I once dumped a guy because he was too serious, had no sense of humor, and didn't know how to just relax and have fun. It felt like work to date him!

See, that the thing with dating. Women will want to spend more time with men who make them feel good. Stimulating intellectual conversations can be fun, but there is more to relationships and more to life... Which is perhaps why a sense of humor is often one of the first things that most women will say they want when searching for a man.

August 11, 2017

I'm an intelligent, well-educated woman who is definitely attracted to intellectual men. But, I once dumped a guy because he was too serious, had no sense of humor, and didn't know how to just relax and have fun. It felt like work to date him!

See, that the thing with dating. Women will want to spend more time with men who make them feel good. Stimulating intellectual conversations can be fun, but there is more to relationships and more to life... Which is perhaps why a sense of humor is often one of the first things that most women will say they want when searching for a man.

I actually have no idea why I said that. I meant a very* serious woman. That's not even close to being synonymous. Sorry.

August 11, 2017

I actually have no idea why I said that. I meant a very* serious woman. That's not even close to being synonymous. Sorry.

No worries. I knew what you meant and I agree with what you are saying. Just saying... I think for most women, there would have to be "more."

August 12, 2017

I'm an intelligent, well-educated woman who is definitely attracted to intellectual men. But, I once dumped a guy because he was too serious, had no sense of humor, and didn't know how to just relax and have fun. It felt like work to date him!

See, that the thing with dating. Women will want to spend more time with men who make them feel good. Stimulating intellectual conversations can be fun, but there is more to relationships and more to life... Which is perhaps why a sense of humor is often one of the first things that most women will say they want when searching for a man.

I believe that to be extremely true, in fact I think that's pretty much a fact. Someone said to me the key really is to make people laugh and I will say this, on the very rare occasion I have managed that feat, the date did actually go quite well.

Still didn't get a second one but that's another story. Perhaps dating has taught me one thing, its to try and enjoy the smaller things, even if the ultimate result is hugely negative..

And, yes I pretty much meet the criteria of the guy you dumped.

August 12, 2017

Sorry

These things can be changed though... You may always be a very thoughtful, serious man but the ability to relate to people and developing a sense of humor can certainly be learned...

The man I am currently dating is a very thoughtful, serious man... But he also knows how to take things easy, have fun, and he makes me laugh all the time. He says that he was not always like this... He had to develop his social skills like anyone else and now, he does fairly well for himself

August 12, 2017

Sorry

These things can be changed though... You may always be a very thoughtful, serious man but the ability to relate to people and developing a sense of humor can certainly be learned...

The man I am currently dating is a very thoughtful, serious man... But he also knows how to take things easy, have fun, and he makes me laugh all the time. He says that he was not always like this... He had to develop his social skills like anyone else and now, he does fairly well for himself

I think in a lot of instances that can be learnt yes. No question about that but at some point you also need others to just allow some leeway while that is being learnt.

The main problem here which I accept is probably country specific is OLD while normal in most other places, for example I searched OK cupid in LA and found the calibre of person there in terms of education and general friendliness to be far higher than it here, for some odd reason its still seen as taboo, when I say I am on dating sites the look of horror on peoples faces is tangible.

I am always going to like what I like and I think part of me is ok with that, at least it gives me some motivation to do incremental improvements even though I know that ultimately that sort of person is beyond my reach. In short I'd rather try in my own way to get what I want than try and persuade myself to like the first person who likes me. Its always going to hurt not quite being able to get that kiss or more but I cant live in the negative about that, at the moment I am talking to someone in Russia and the thing that has struck me and this has happened before with people from overseas is a humility, its true of the members of this forum too. I don't find this humility very often.

Case in point I log onto Skype "Hey how was your day, I did this and that today", for most this is nothing special for it its nice because I don't get that.

Ultimately you succeed or fail I think based on how you connect with people AND how many you meet. My issue is I actually do go out anymore because I get my face rubbed in it so often and people are so blatantly unfriendly that I'd simply rather sit at home and read. Its better if you go with a group but I don't have that group. Inevitably your success in a group would be better.

When it comes down to it, truthfully I don't know what I am looking for anymore, someone to date or one night of fun simply because I have never done that.

But I agree with you a sense of fun and humour are seemingly the winning things and I admire those who have them as much as I admire those capable of charm because inevitably its them who succeed at dating where I do not.

August 12, 2017

I am always going to like what I like and I think part of me is ok with that,

That's fine, but...

at least it gives me some motivation to do incremental improvements

Don't half-ass things, you won't get the results you want. Commit to them and do them to the best of your ability. You don't have time to waste, life is precious. Why are you satisfied with only "incremental" improvements? Why you do only have "some" motivation? How much motivation do you need to get the thing you want most in life? You need to confront your obstacles and just destroy them, already. Not just ask them politely to stop hindering you.

even though I know that ultimately that sort of person is beyond my reach.

You have absolutely got to lose this defeatist attitude. You don't realize it's half your problem. By believing it, you're turning it into reality. I'm not saying anything is possible, but you're capable of much more than you think. An attitude adjustment is a small tweak that can have tremendous results. No woman will want a man who thinks she's beyond his reach. You'll at least have a shot if you think she's within it, and do what's necessary to get her time and attention. If you continue to adjust your attitude and push yourself further, you'll get to a point where you're out of her reach and she'll be the one trying to get you.

No woman will be attracted to you out of sympathy. None. You need to have a willingness to try hard enough for someone before they will try you. You will not be able to convert your lack of success into some kind of attraction currency.

In short I'd rather try in my own way to get what I want than try

We've been over this endlessly, though. Your ways don't work. Years later and still nothing. When will you finally just wake up? Try something else if you want it that badly.

The main problem here which I accept is probably country specific is OLD while normal in most other places, for example I searched OK cupid in LA and found the calibre of person there in terms of education and general friendliness to be far higher than it here, for some odd reason its still seen as taboo, when I say I am on dating sites the look of horror on peoples faces is tangible.
[...]
at the moment I am talking to someone in Russia and the thing that has struck me and this has happened before with people from overseas is a humility, its true of the members of this forum too. I don't find this humility very often.

It can be country specific and/or individual specific. Tell us more about the culture/dating culture in South Africa and how it's affected you.

August 13, 2017

That's fine, but...

Don't half-ass things, you won't get the results you want. Commit to them and do them to the best of your ability. You don't have time to waste, life is precious. Why are you satisfied with only "incremental" improvements? Why you do only have "some" motivation? How much motivation do you need to get the thing you want most in life? You need to confront your obstacles and just destroy them, already. Not just ask them politely to stop hindering you.

You have absolutely got to lose this defeatist attitude. You don't realize it's half your problem. By believing it, you're turning it into reality. I'm not saying anything is possible, but you're capable of much more than you think. An attitude adjustment is a small tweak that can have tremendous results. No woman will want a man who thinks she's beyond his reach. You'll at least have a shot if you think she's within it, and do what's necessary to get her time and attention. If you continue to adjust your attitude and push yourself further, you'll get to a point where you're out of her reach and she'll be the one trying to get you.

No woman will be attracted to you out of sympathy. None. You need to have a willingness to try hard enough for someone before they will try you. You will not be able to convert your lack of success into some kind of attraction currency.

We've been over this endlessly, though. Your ways don't work. Years later and still nothing. When will you finally just wake up? Try something else if you want it that badly.

It can be country specific and/or individual specific. Tell us more about the culture/dating culture in South Africa and how it's affected you.

There you have it, I don't want it that badly. I am sure you have been waiting for this comment for ages. The reality is there are other things I want more, dating would be nice to simply experience it.

Frankly speaking there are far more important things I'd rather commit completely to where I do see results versus sitting with dating where I see no result at all no matter what I do. I'll use some of your own if you play golf and practice and practice and are still useless at it and you don't enjoy it, do you keep doing it simply because everyone else likes it?

You are right a lack of success resembles a red flag the size of Grand Canyon, 'next" is inevitably the reaction.

My beliefs are supported by experiences so they are by no means imagined, I have been out often enough, observed those who are successful, tried as everyone tells me to learn those supposed common things but for whatever reason they don't fit with me, I can try be those guys but it never ever works because that isn't me. You cannot be something you are not. You have to be what you are and make the best of that and hope someone will like who you are.

Bending over backward to accommodate the "hypothetical whims" of people is something I frankly will not do. This is me, they can like it or lump it. If I met someone nice who liked to go to a club now and then, sure I'd go, no issue. Put simply I am not prepared to compromise and do things I hate because I "might" meet someone doing something I hate.

Again if I get judged for that so be it and I have been judged for it in the past notably the lack of drinking. In a country with a high drinking culture not doing so is a major problem. You forget NYC is probably the most culturally diverse cities in the world which is its attraction to many, having that means the spectre of judgement is less.

I can tell you categorically when I have been on seeking arrangement dates (my new preferred method of dating because for once I have some choice) with tourists those dates have ALWAYS been better, why because I don't sit with the narrow minded narrative of: drink, picket fence, sport, macho, rugby, this is what my friends bf's are like" and in addition ALL the American people I have met have had superior levels of general knowledge to 99% of SA people. You can sit down and actually have a conversation and this is what I think it being loss in translation in this entire thread. Here what appears to get you a date are the following

1: Must be good looking

2: Must drink

3: My friends must like you/the look of you

4: Money

Interchange 1 and 4 from time to time. OLD here is the hunting ground of mid 30s/40's single moms and people in their early 20's who perhaps are looking for a benefactor or there are other reasons but I don't want to start a huge argument. You go out to a club or a bar, try speak to people and you get a cold shoulder, because everything works in the clique.

Am I perfect, absolutely not, do I try, yes I do.

Ultimately I'd rather bring someone over from Russia or carry on with these pointless pay dinner dates than spend any further amount of time trying to find friendly people in places I don't like. Sure, I can go 100 miles out to a small town and perhaps have a bit more luck there.

But as someone once said, if you don't know what you want, finding it is next to impossible.

August 13, 2017

There you have it, I don't want it that badly. I am sure you have been waiting for this comment for ages. The reality is there are other things I want more, dating would be nice to simply experience it.

So why don't you focus on those things rather than starting dozens of threads asking how you can fix things you don't care enough about to actually fix? That'd certainly save me a lot of time trying to help you. I have my guesses.

Frankly speaking there are far more important things I'd rather commit completely to where I do see results versus sitting with dating where I see no result at all no matter what I do. I'll use some of your own if you play golf and practice and practice and are still useless at it and you don't enjoy it, do you keep doing it simply because everyone else likes it?

Well you don't have the luxury of doing anything else. There is no other option. Just because you haven't figured out the nuances of it, or don't like it, doesn't mean it's not the game you have to play. We all get dealt different hands. Learn to play yours as well you can. Not sure how many more times I can explain this. Learn to play or stop complaining that you don't know how.

You are right a lack of success resembles a red flag the size of Grand Canyon, 'next" is inevitably the reaction.

I didn't say "lack of success," don't try and twist my words. I implied a lack of willingness, confidence, pride, etc. There's a gigantic difference between a yet unsuccessful guy who has the willingness to face his fears and work for what he wants (every boy/man starts out this way), and a guy who thinks all women are out of his reach and aren't worth bothering with. The first guy has an appealing attitude and will likely figure it out at some point because people will respect the fact that he's trying to change and get what he desires, it's an attractive quality. The second guy (you) likely won't because no one has any obligation to give you the benefit of the doubt and take an interest in you, especially when you assume there's no sense in trying and that they're out of your reach. You're brandishing yourself with a big sign that says "Don't waste your time on me, your eggs will thank you."

Try this: just act like women are in your reach, or even that you're out of theirs, and just see how things change. Give it a real, honest, shot for a month and report back. If there's no marked improvement, I'll eat my words on everything I've written in these threads and stop responding.

My beliefs are supported by experiences so they are by no means imagined, I have been out often enough, observed those who are successful, tried as everyone tells me to learn those supposed common things but for whatever reason they don't fit with me, I can try be those guys but it never ever works because that isn't me. You cannot be something you are not. You have to be what you are and make the best of that and hope someone will like who you are.

It's mostly psychological. "For some reason they don't fit with me" is a convenient way of saying "I haven't figured it out yet and don't want to try further." Keep trying other things, you have no other option. I try to learn something every time I talk to a date, friends, stranger, even writing these responses to you. I put it in with my mental encyclopedia of human behavior to apply for later reference. I too had to learn to take charge, make decisions, not be "too" nice, etc. I'm still learning. Every interaction that you learn from will cut some fat and refine you more. It won't make you a fake person, you'll just be one better suited for the environment.

This is me, they can like it or lump it.

After 33 years, it appears they still lump it. What now? Are you going to try and show them what they're missing? Are you going to prove them wrong? No one's perfect. We all have to compromise and adapt to things. The consequences of a lifetime of refusing to do that should scare you much, much, more than the momentary discomfort of sitting through something you don't enjoy. Which is worse for you? A lifetime of a celibacy or some temporary uncomfortable moments endured while reaching the light at the end of the tunnel? Do you want the unpleasant but quick vaccination, or the slow, horrible death by disease?

Here what appears to get you a date are the following

1: Must be good looking
2: Must drink
3: My friends must like you/the look of you
4: Money

This is a funny list because you (seemingly on purpose) composed it primarily of things you feel you can't change, and conveniently omitted things you can change but just won't.

Have you ever heard of a woman liking a guy with confidence? Coincidentally, you don't have any (yet) and left that off the list.

Have you ever heard of a woman liking a guy who goes after what he wants? Coincidentally, you refuse to do that in any pragmatic way and left that off the list too.

Have you ever heard of a woman desiring a guy who thinks she's out of her reach? No? What a coincidence, because that's exactly what you think. See what I'm getting at?

Ultimately I'd rather bring someone over from Russia or carry on with these pointless pay dinner dates than spend any further amount of time trying to find friendly people in places I don't like.

Not that I agree that that might be the solution, but if you think it is, what's stopping you?

August 13, 2017

Here what appears to get you a date are the following

1: Must be good looking
2: Must drink
3: My friends must like you/the look of you
4: Money

Interchange 1 and 4 from time to time. OLD here is the hunting ground of mid 30s/40's single moms and people in their early 20's who perhaps are looking for a benefactor or there are other reasons but I don't want to start a huge argument.

Ultimately I'd rather bring someone over from Russia.

OMG - There is nothing more to say. This whole discussion has been an exercise in futility.

Bring a mail order bride over from Russia. It is unlikely that you will attract anyone with this incredibly rigid and pessimistic attitude about women and relationships.

Good luck.

August 13, 2017

OP's tendency to be articulate and mild-mannered divert just enough attention away from the reality that he's been starting basically the same threads for two years.

There comes a point where others should identify that someone else is not really interested in solving a problem; rather, they just want to revel in that conflict.

OP seems like a solid guy, but it was obvious long ago that he's not interested in really doing anything differently to generate better results in an area he claims to not care that much about.

I'll leave the OP with this: I have carried a mentality similar to yours in some capacity over my life. I can say that life is a lot better when you drop the pretense that it's everyone else who is wrong and needs to change.

August 13, 2017

This whole discussion about identity is amusing to me.

As if there's some sort of special dignity in an identity being shaped by poor habits, laziness, and fear.

August 13, 2017

OP's tendency to be articulate and mild-mannered divert just enough attention away from the reality that he's been starting basically the same threads for two years.

There comes a point where others should identify that someone else is not really interested in solving a problem; rather, they just want to revel in that conflict.

OP seems like a solid guy, but it was obvious long ago that he's not interested in really doing anything differently to generate better results in an area he claims to not care that much about.

I'll leave the OP with this: I have carried a mentality similar to yours in some capacity over my life. I can say that life is a lot better when you drop the pretense that it's everyone else who is wrong and needs to change.

Never said anyone needed to change at all for my benefit. They can carry on as they wish, as it seems to bring such superb results. I think its something one learns perhaps and others never learn it. Which is fine, given the choice I'd rather look at myself and know I am living according to my own values than trying to be someone I am not under the pretence of perhaps appealing to someone based on a lie.

August 13, 2017

I'm gonna reply to some bits, ass something to NP's last post and add some bits at the end - this will be a mish mash post basically of various things.
Apologies for words or things in capitals - it's to emphasise the word or few words and is the easiest way - I am not shouting.

Maybe it's because you don't appear to have fun with them. This can either lead to them feeling like you're not laughing at the same things so not on the same wavelength (you may appear old and stuffy) or this can also appear as if you are just way too serious - about everything.
All of us - all - including you if you're honest with yourself want to have fun on a date.

They are pretty much the same thing. BUT if you are with ANOTHER PERSON doing things then if you don't EXPRESS fun and that you are enjoying it they will never really know that you are.

Its also true to say there are some people who, as you say bring out different things in me but for the most part I am quite guarded and measured in my reactions.[/quote[
With some people this is the way to be - with those you have no tr real trust with. Over time with those you realise you can trust though opening up just in baby steps is and can be a great thing to do.
As long as when you do open up it's not ALWAYS about dating or ALWAYS about this or that - make it good things and the not so good things - don't dwell on one thing nor always have a problem.

Knowledgeable about what? I am knowledgeable about lots of things - none of which I would ever consider talking about on a date.
Are you looking for passion in a subject from someone?
If you are then - well - what if make up is her passion and she knows all about it. Or me - I have curly hair and know all about how to care for it.
I could tell you loads of stuff but I would likely bore you rigid. I have had no choice in the past telling a guy I'm dating a little bit but it's not a subject I would force him or anyone to endure unless they wanted to know.
By the way this doesn't mean I am not an excel geek, doesn't mean I am not interested (or recently even more demoralised by) politics, it doesn't mean I am concerned about the rise in acid crime in the UK - more importantly though in India where it's rife. But these are all things I wouldn't bring to a date.

So you enjoyed it to some extent - build on that.
I bet it wasn't just good but that it was actually fun - it was different, you didn't hate it - you said it was good!

Finding something to talk about Is easier than that NP.
This is why an activity - a market, a fair, a music festival, a car rally - all are great for dates. You know this NP - you just didn't twig it. ZA needs to know.

See my post in here to a young man going on a first date for what I mean - surroundings matter.
http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/631612-date-fair

OK ZA, another couple of suggestions - you HAVE TO start opening up a bit more to suggestions if you want this instead of just wanting to complain about this.

Join an amature dramatics group in a local theatre - PURELY to learn how to fake it til you make it.
I was hugely shy as a kid - I had a lot of stuff going on - I seriously became aware my Mum was going to die when I was around 11-13 and it hit me badly.
At the same time though I was in a drama class at school and we did a play.
I was the lowest of the low character in The Importance of Being Earnest. My Mum and Dad came )I tried to stop them) but I nailed it! I had so many other parents come up to me after saying how amazing I was and how funny.

I loved doing it - I didn't need to be shy as I wasn't being me - but it taught me to be animated so I could EXPRESS fun.

Another option if you are not ready for that is a course in Presentation Skills.
I have known a few folk try this to just open up a bit more and learn how to engage. It's not the type of thing that is just a course - you apply it every day, every moment of every day.

If you try either (but I fully expect you will have an excuse not to even think abut either suggestion unfortunately - I'd love if you took a suggestion by the horns and just tried it) then don't go thinking you will meet a date - it's for your growth.

I have no issue with workable suggestions.

What is fun on a date? I'd love an answer to that question because I don't know what a fun date is. You are correct I don't really have fun on a date but truthfully for me fun is purely actually getting something right or accomplishing something. Sure, fun can be catching a great wave of going for a good run but I'd say a lot of my life is short on the word fun. Fun is driving the latest supercar around a track.

I am serious, again no argument there, I do TRY be funny though but mine is a dry humour, which when I have someone who gets it really works well but most times they don't.

For me knowledge is this, being able to actually speak about topics and have some sort of opinion, two months ago I sat across from a carer from Denver, she works at a kids hospital she had a huge amount of knowledge and opinions on many things which was great and the date went well, conversation flowed and there was some humour because she got me. Most people here don't care beyond the end of their own noses, its me myself and I so their level of knowledge is severely limited as a result.

I agree on activities but there is NO WAY I am going to do activities with people I don't know from a bar of soap, for example I often go to lunches/wine tastings, the last thing I need is someone who gets drunk and behaves poorly or doesn't know basic table etiquette.

I am sorry about your mom, the loss of a parent at that age is something I cant comprehend.

Shy perhaps isn't as much a problem, last week I gave a lecture to a room full of people and had no issues at all, no notes, nothing I could do it off the bat. Shy socially is because people here are so unfriendly, everything here is a clique to lesser or greater degrees, you NEED friends to actually have any success at meeting that stranger girl. I have sat in bars and observed this myself, guys who work alone get nowhere at all based on what I have seen.

Ultimately its probably this, I am very conscious of a lack of experience and people around me don't let me forget that, it gets rubbed in overtly and less overtly. I still live in hope that one day someone will actually be genuinely nice about this. Think about this for a minute, me and a friend in a shop, friend then tells the shop assistant "oh he cant get a date, would you go out with him". Just think about that for a minute....

Its very, very hard to consign being rejected over and over again to being irrelevant because it does take its toll, more so when there are no instances of any success either.

At the end of the day I can still look even if they aren't looking at me.

August 13, 2017

Never said anyone needed to change at all for my benefit. They can carry on as they wish, as it seems to bring such superb results. I think its something one learns perhaps and others never learn it. Which is fine, given the choice I'd rather look at myself and know I am living according to my own values than trying to be someone I am not under the pretence of perhaps appealing to someone based on a lie.

You've missed the point. The point is it's normal for people to mature and change in order to thrive and survive. When you genuinely change and mature it's not fake. It's growth. No one wants the five-year-old you. They want someone who has grown to meet the needs of an adult.