Why we cheat.

[niji]

This is a fascinating topic, OT. I can't comment on the cheating part but I do feel that, in general, women tend to get more emotionally attached over something that both parties in the beginning both subconsciously wanted to keep "casual". I surmise that early on in affairs, most women also think to themselves it would just be some emotional validation, some flirting here and there, to make themselves feel good and validated (the ones who don't kid themselves, anyway). However, as things progress, women also tend to have a harder time keeping it casual.

 

Imagine it as, in the beginning, both parties are probably both looking for something easy - for women, the attention, for men, the sex. But after the sex has happened, somehow females just have a harder time separating that from the emotional involvement (like another poster has said here, if he's willing to risk all that for me then maybe he loves me ), while men don't seem to have as much of a problem.

 

Both men and women want to feel DESIRED. I know when rarely are the pursuer.... But tell a man he is smart, sexy and desired, they quickly find they crave that kind of attention as well.

 

This is very true; some men at my workplace can be lazy... I just need to hint at how smart I think they are, and they immediately pick up the slack

[Southern Sun]

And what better way to know a cad, to easily identify them, than a man who tells you he's married and is still trying to sleep with you? That's where it all flies off the rails for me; it's obvious that people doing this are cads, how can they show you more clearly than their actions that are right in front of you?

 

To the top part, yes, I agree, I think that's exactly what it is.

 

There are two problems with the "cad" theory.

 

One is that, if you are attracted to this "cad", then him desiring you, wanting you, etc., becomes more of a compliment than an insult. That's where friendships sneak up and get you. If you know the guy to be generally decent, respectful, blah, blah, but then he admits to an attraction to you, it doesn't necessarily come across as, "This guy is a disgusting pig!" but rather, "He's such a good guy, and here he is trying to resist me."

 

Secondly, once you are sort of along for the ride, how can you judge this "cad"? You are also a cad, if indeed he is one. You are in this thing together, so if he is such a disgusting person, well...that makes you one too.

[Overtaxed]

Based on what you are saying, men are willing to risk careers and family and reputation and finances for "just sex". They cheat with employees and family friends and sometimes girlfriends of their sons. If that is true, why the heck don't they just pay for it? Why have an affair? There is something more to the story.

 

Yes, they are. And they do it all the time. Cite many famous philanderers here (Bill Clinton, Tiger Woods, etc). Some do pay for it, most would prefer to have the "conquest" of having a woman give herself to him. It's power, it's validation, but, end of the day, it's the sex that most are after, I truly believe that.

 

Remove "affairs" from the picture. What exactly do men feel when they are excited by the prospect of a new girlfriend? Overtaxed, you say that men pretty much interact with women solely because they want to have sex with them. I guess a marriage relationship becomes different over time, but an initial romantic relationship is different, right? There is lust and hormones and excitement and sex. How do men feel then? Are you saying there are no emotions? You just want SEX?

 

The majority of my sexual relationships, yes, I really did just want sex. I can't speak for all men, but I can say that, from what I hear from other men, this is far more common than most women would suspect.

 

Men and women interact in their specific ways, regardless of whether the relationship is "legit" or an affair. I understand an affair might make the dynamic different. It might cause a presumption of "no-strings." But we have plenty of no-strings relationships outside of affairs too.

 

And I've had plenty of these types of relationships. It's very rare, IMHO, that a woman actually enters a NSA relationship wanting a NSA relationship. They enter them a prequel to a "regular relationship" (with strings.. LOL). Yes, there are some women who defy this model, I've actually had totally "casual" sexual relationships before. But they are a very rare breed; until you know otherwise, assume it's a girl trying to get you to "go further" with her in the relationship, not a girl who loves sex and thinks you're God's gift to women.

 

This article skews towards VERY short-term relationships. How do you explain long-term affairs? Are you saying these men are robotic, emotionless, sex-crazed creatures? I do know it's possible. If a woman will give it up long-term, a man might tap her once a month, knowing it's available. But there also can be an emotional attachment. I've read stories on this board where the man says, it started off as sex and over time, I got attached.

 

I'm not saying "it's not possible". What I'm saying is "It's extremely unlikely". Yes, of course, most men would be happy to have a woman in their lives for NSA sex once a month. If it takes a few phone calls/txts/e-mails to keep that relationship alive, you're darn right we'll do that. If it takes a wedding ring or breaking up with your wife, then, the situation is opposite, most male APs will run for the hills (which we see here time and time again).

 

And why you assume the woman is faking it inside the sexual relationship, I don't know. She is not necessarily doing so.

 

If I implied that, I didn't mean it to come across that way. Someone else actually said that "women can fake sexual interest" or something to that effect, my response was "It's not fake to the man" and that's really what matters to most of these APs.

 

I'm not saying any of this is RIGHT. And it's likely all temporary. But aren't most relationships?? That doesn't mean that the man didn't give the emotions at all, ever. Just because you can't touch them, doesn't mean they didn't exist.

 

It doesn't mean they didn't exist. But there's a good chance that they didn't. Because we're men, it's how we operate. If nothing else, I want my posts to be a view into a male (typical? Maybe, but I'm not going to say that for sure, but I know there are other men here who will echo my comments) viewpoint of sexual relationships. Men have been lying about our emotions since we were teenagers for sex. "I love you" was said by my entire group of friends for the "first time", we joked about it with our friends who hadn't had sex yet; "Dude, just tell her you love her, she'll give it up then". Did any of us love any of those girls? I doubt it (I know I didn't, and, by the treatment the rest received, if that's love, no thanks!). But we're socialized to do this; it's how we operate with women. You have to look beyond that, beyond the words to really find out how men feel about you.

[Overtaxed]

There are two problems with the "cad" theory.

 

One is that, if you are attracted to this "cad", then him desiring you, wanting you, etc., becomes more of a compliment than an insult. That's where friendships sneak up and get you. If you know the guy to be generally decent, respectful, blah, blah, but then he admits to an attraction to you, it doesn't necessarily come across as, "This guy is a disgusting pig!" but rather, "He's such a good guy, and here he is trying to resist me."

 

Secondly, once you are sort of along for the ride, how can you judge this "cad"? You are also a cad, if indeed he is one. You are in this thing together, so if he is such a disgusting person, well...that makes you one too.

 

Yup, I hear you, and I think you're dead on. But why not just take the "cad" at face value. I know the "bad boy" gets the girls, I was that guy for a long time. But I just don't understand how people can not "rolleyes" as you said above. He's showing you (and so is she) that he/she isn't a safe partner, what more do you need to know?

[DKT3]

There are two problems with the "cad" theory.

 

One is that, if you are attracted to this "cad", then him desiring you, wanting you, etc., becomes more of a compliment than an insult. That's where friendships sneak up and get you. If you know the guy to be generally decent, respectful, blah, blah, but then he admits to an attraction to you, it doesn't necessarily come across as, "This guy is a disgusting pig!" but rather, "He's such a good guy, and here he is trying to resist me."

 

Secondly, once you are sort of along for the ride, how can you judge this "cad"? You are also a cad, if indeed he is one. You are in this thing together, so if he is such a disgusting person, well...that makes you one too.

 

But it does....which is, in my opinion, one of the toughest things to reconcile. No one wants to see themselves as monsters or bad people, therefore, condemning ones actions that mimic your own is difficult even once you've gained space and view the event different.

 

But if one truly deconstructed past behavior accepted that horrible actions only make you a horrible person while doing them, then it makes it easier to accept that person was horrible and you were too. No longer being that person or involved in those horrible things you've s what makes it possible. Hard to get there, so it's hard to accept the connection.

[Overtaxed]

But if one truly deconstructed past behavior accepted that horrible actions only make you a horrible person while doing them, then it makes it easier to accept that person was horrible and you were too. No longer being that person or involved in those horrible things you've s what makes it possible. Hard to get there, so it's hard to accept the connection.

 

This quote deserves to be repeated over and over again. It's the essence of R, it really is. Yes, I did something awful. It does not make me an awful person, it makes me someone who did something awful. This is OT, so I won't drone on about it, but I sent this to my WW pretty much as soon as I read it because she's dealing with so much guilt from what happened. Yes, you did something awful, but that doesn't sentence you to an awful life unless/until you let it come to define who you are.

[DKT3]

But it does....which is, in my opinion, one of the toughest things to reconcile. No one wants to see themselves as monsters or bad people, therefore, condemning ones actions that mimic your own is difficult even once you've gained space and view the event different.

 

But if one truly deconstructed past behavior accepted that horrible actions only make you a horrible person while doing them, then it makes it easier to accept that person was horrible and you were too. No longer being that person or involved in those horrible things you've s what makes it possible. Hard to get there, so it's hard to accept the connection.

 

Geez, I'm on my phone... small phone big fingers...it's the whole monkey and football thing.

 

The last sentence should read, no longer being that person or involved in those horrible things you've done, is what makes it possible.

 

Sorry

[Southern Sun]

So Overtaxed, I have a question, as I'm trying to just accept at face value your description of men and what they think of women:

 

At what point does it change? When does a man look at a woman differently? For example, with all of your NSA relationships and casual hook-ups, why did you want to marry your wife? What makes a man want more than just sex with a particular woman?

 

I would welcome any man's response. I'm curious. (Don't mean to t/j...will take it elsewhere if so).

[Unforseen]

For my W (all online, the longest one was about 4 weeks), it started out as for the attention. And yet was very inconsistent with her normal personality. The first guy was a shoulder to cry on. From reading his replies and desperation as she finally cut him off, he was getting respect and felt needed by my W. A couple more guys she was involved with started out as attention and then they moved along to sexual attention. My wife got to feel sexually desirable and paid attention to for the "low" price of exchanging naughty messages and a few traded pictures. The last guy she continued on with for a couple weeks after I had discovered the others. By that point it was some emotional attention a great deal of sexual attention, and I could also see she was enjoying the excitement of sneaking around and getting away with it. For him, he got to feel like a sexual stud getting my wife off by text or voice messages and got to use what my wife sent him for his own sexual needs.

 

There was a degree of accepted falseness on all parties. She told him what he wanted to hear to keep him telling her what she wanted to hear. And at the time there was no "cost". She didn't have to be herself or feel the risk of not being accepted. It was easy. She could give him just about anything without seeing the actual price she was paying. By that point she didn't see any risk in losing me. After catching her with the first guys she figured we were done anyway so there wasn't much point in denying herself the fun and attention just because I was upset.

 

And yet in her mind, even knowing it was "fake" attention with the only intent of getting her to send out nude pictures, etc., it was real enough and in her mind safer and easier than facing the reality of dealing with me. With me there was risk. What if she had told me she needed the attention and how depressed and angry she was feeling? What if I proved her feelings of shame right and told her that she wasn't worth my time and that she needed to go? That was a risk she could not face and instead, went to get her needs met through the immediately risk free options she had found online.

 

It was not until I discovered the last guy was still going on during the second d day that she finally realized what her attention needs and how she was fulfilling them was going to cost her our marriage. It was essentially an ultimatum that I finally made letting her know that if she wanted to keep that behavior up that was fine, but she would be doing it without me in her life.

[DKT3]

So Overtaxed, I have a question, as I'm trying to just accept at face value your description of men and what they think of women:

 

At what point does it change? When does a man look at a woman differently? For example, with all of your NSA relationships and casual hook-ups, why did you want to marry your wife? What makes a man want more than just sex with a particular woman?

 

I would welcome any man's response. I'm curious. (Don't mean to t/j...will take it elsewhere if so).

 

I believe it's about timing for most men. I will admit I'm some what of a novice, because​I told my wife at 17 I was going to marry her one day.

 

I do know this, due to the insecurity of most men, sexual competition isn't desirable, so we will rarely chose a woman we are competing for, not long term.

[Southern Sun]

I believe it's about timing for most men. I will admit I'm some what of a novice, because​I told my wife at 17 I was going to marry her one day.

 

I do know this, due to the insecurity of most men, sexual competition isn't desirable, so we will rarely chose a woman we are competing for, not long term.

 

Do you mean if you perceive she is highly desirable, you won't choose her? Or if you think she's playing the field, not committing to you, you won't choose her?

[DKT3]

Do you mean if you perceive she is highly desirable, you won't choose her? Or if you think she's playing the field, not committing to you, you won't choose her?

 

No, not at all. I think it's more about her willingness to engage other men.

 

A healthy confident man will over look a woman's sexual past, it's once he has been there then another guy is there that creates the issue and kick starts the insecurity.

 

It's one of the he reasons​ infidelity breaks marriges at a much higher rate when the wife is unfaithful. We see it as being second option when the wife come back. It's harder for us to recognize the emotional connection, or that it was lacking in the marriage. It becomes all about the sex.

 

MM also have this element, except it also adds ole faithful wife vs unfaithful MW. I think women in n those situations tend to buy into the house, kids money bs line, when it really boils down to this, why would I ever leave my faithful wife for one cheating on her husband...

[Overtaxed]

I believe it's about timing for most men. I will admit I'm some what of a novice, because​I told my wife at 17 I was going to marry her one day.

 

I do know this, due to the insecurity of most men, sexual competition isn't desirable, so we will rarely chose a woman we are competing for, not long term.

 

Yup, timing for many, situational for others. Simply put, as a young man, I wasn't looking for my W. Probably met a lot of women who would have been good wives, never gave them the chance to show me. When I met my W, it was really "love at first sight" for me, but, at the same time, I was "ready" to have that happen. If I'd met her 3 years earlier, I'm sure, no matter how much I thought I cared for her, I never would have been "ready" for a serious relationship. Also, I was working towards a serious job at that point, so my financial situation was improving to the point of "ready" to have a real "partner" and not just a FWB. So, timing coupled with the person you meet, at least for me.

 

Sexual competition is not a desirable trait at all except in men who are insecure, IMHO. I never wanted people to look at my W sexually, I knew they did, but I never wanted it. It never made me feel good that I "got her" and they didn't, it made me want to beat them for the lack of respect they have for me to look at her like that. For some men, yes, it's important, I know quite a few guys like that. But I think it's because they are insecure in themselves that they want their wives to take the spotlight. Just, IMHO, of course.

 

I had an interesting thought making coffee this afternoon. I think the thing that makes this hard for women to understand (the "would he really do all this for sex" posts in here or other threads) is that most men in today's society are "sexually starved". Now, before the brigade jumps in here and beats me to death, yes, I know some women are as well. But I don't think that women realize how many men fall into that category. It's so common that there are comedic skits about it; it's so common that it's a topic of conversation with other men when we're together almost 100% of the time. The "wife won't sleep with me" discussion becomes so common as to become cliche. Couple that with the typically higher male sex drive, and you have a recipie for men doing all kinds of stupid/crazy/terrible things to have more sex. No, it's not the woman's fault (his partner), in fact, often, there's no woman at all; men are "sex starved" from a young age (I know I was in high school!). It's just the way it is. I suspect, most men, if they were really honest, would profess a sexual desire to sleep with their significant other FAR MORE often than they actually do. I read somewhere that "typical" was 1X/wk; I think my "preferred" frequency would be more like 10-14X per week.

 

Neither here nor there, though I suspect that most would agree, many men would like to be having more sex. Couple that innate desire with a flawed moral foundation, and, pretty quickly it's apparent that men will go to great lengths to get sex. Almost all of us have done it, even if there wasn't anything "bad" about it. I drove a few hours to meet someone for sex in college. I've read stories on here about guys driving 6 hours one way to have sex with their APs, then driving right back home. Men will destroy their families for it, will lose 1/2 of everything they've accumulated (wealth), will break their wives' spirit. All for sex. Underestimate the male sex drive at your own peril; yes, we do have feelings too, and we do care about women we are working towards building a life with. But our sex drive, I'm not sure if there's anything that most women can compare it to; it's so foundational to who we are that, if you take it away, you wind up with what's happening in Japan, a generation of men who've pushed back their sexual urges and, with it, the urge for everything else (a job, their own house, leaving the house, etc).

 

But yes, a man will do terrible things to get sex from a woman. I've done it. I suspect that most men on here have done it. And if I'm willing to step out on my wife for it, that should tell you, "the gloves are off", I'll destroy her to do this, what makes you think I won't lie to you even MORE than I lie to my W? We're not bad people, we're just focused, and, when it comes to women, our focus isn't the same place yours is, in a regular relationship or an A, most of the time.

[OneLov]

Probably met a lot of women who would have been good wives, never gave them the chance to show me. When I met my W, it was really "love at first sight" for me, but, at the same time, I was "ready" to have that happen.... If I'd met her 3 years earlier, I'm sure, no matter how much I thought I cared for her, I never would have been "ready" for a serious relationship.

 

OT,

 

I understand everything you are saying. But how would this make your wife feel desired? I'm not questioning or suggesting that you don't love her or implying that she is not special to you. Aside from timing, what is one thing that makes her more special (in your eyes) than any other woman on this planet? What about her caused you to fall into that burning ring of fire?

[Southern Sun]

Yup, timing for many, situational for others. Simply put, as a young man, I wasn't looking for my W. Probably met a lot of women who would have been good wives, never gave them the chance to show me. When I met my W, it was really "love at first sight" for me, but, at the same time, I was "ready" to have that happen. If I'd met her 3 years earlier, I'm sure, no matter how much I thought I cared for her, I never would have been "ready" for a serious relationship. Also, I was working towards a serious job at that point, so my financial situation was improving to the point of "ready" to have a real "partner" and not just a FWB. So, timing coupled with the person you meet, at least for me.

 

Sexual competition is not a desirable trait at all except in men who are insecure, IMHO. I never wanted people to look at my W sexually, I knew they did, but I never wanted it. It never made me feel good that I "got her" and they didn't, it made me want to beat them for the lack of respect they have for me to look at her like that. For some men, yes, it's important, I know quite a few guys like that. But I think it's because they are insecure in themselves that they want their wives to take the spotlight. Just, IMHO, of course.

 

I had an interesting thought making coffee this afternoon. I think the thing that makes this hard for women to understand (the "would he really do all this for sex" posts in here or other threads) is that most men in today's society are "sexually starved". Now, before the brigade jumps in here and beats me to death, yes, I know some women are as well. But I don't think that women realize how many men fall into that category. It's so common that there are comedic skits about it; it's so common that it's a topic of conversation with other men when we're together almost 100% of the time. The "wife won't sleep with me" discussion becomes so common as to become cliche. Couple that with the typically higher male sex drive, and you have a recipie for men doing all kinds of stupid/crazy/terrible things to have more sex. No, it's not the woman's fault (his partner), in fact, often, there's no woman at all; men are "sex starved" from a young age (I know I was in high school!). It's just the way it is. I suspect, most men, if they were really honest, would profess a sexual desire to sleep with their significant other FAR MORE often than they actually do. I read somewhere that "typical" was 1X/wk; I think my "preferred" frequency would be more like 10-14X per week.

 

 

All very interesting.

 

This sexual competition theory is fascinating to me. I think it explains men's lack of respect for women in casual relationships. If you think about it from the perspective of an affair, an MM with a MW might look at her as someone willing to give it to him as well as her husband...and who knows who else. And I never really thought about the fact that men do not want their women to be desirable (in general...to other men). I mean, I get it. I guess I always thought that men would want their women to be "hot" or attractive. But it makes sense that they want that reserved for THEM. They don't want it perceived that they are out 'working it' or putting out an air of sexual availability AT ALL. If a woman is attractive or very beautiful, that is one thing. It doesn't mean she has to put out that 'thing' that indicates availability. I have very beautiful friends who do not get hit on AT ALL, and it's because they don't put that out there.

 

If your primary theory regarding men cheating is because they are sex-starved, it doesn't TOTALLY jive with the article:

 

Why do men cheat?

Sex: 44 percent

Variety: 40 percent

More satisfying sex: 38 percent

Excitement: 30 percent

 

Yes, a good deal just want sex. But some are obviously getting it, yet want it to be more satisfying. The rest just want some excitement and strange.

[knabe]

OT,

 

I understand everything you are saying. But how would this make your wife feel desired? I'm not questioning or suggesting that you don't love her or implying that she is not special to you. Aside from timing, what is one thing that makes her more special (in your eyes) than any other woman on this planet? What about her caused you to fall into that burning ring of fire?

 

This is an interesting question, and I don't think it is off-topic because it highlights one of the ways many women tend to differ from many men. Many of the men I know do not subscribe to the "there's only one" theory - the idea that in all the world there is this mysterious "one" who is perfect for you. Yet most of the women I know (at least when they were young) believe that there is a "one."

 

I don't. I believe that we may encounter several (or even many) people with whom we could mesh very well and have a love relationship. But timing, circumstances, being ready, etc. tend to dictate which of those actually becomes "the one." My fiance is amazing, and I think the best thing that has ever happened to me. But ten years ago? Five years ago? I probably wouldn't have thought of him that way. Because tne years ago my life was in some turmoil, and five years ago...well five years ago let's just say I was going through an idiot phase lol

[Overtaxed]

OT,

 

I understand everything you are saying. But how would this make your wife feel desired? I'm not questioning or suggesting that you don't love her or implying that she is not special to you. Aside from timing, what is one thing that makes her more special (in your eyes) than any other woman on this planet? What about her caused you to fall into that burning ring of fire?

 

I know, and it's been a topic of discussion in our relationship before. What makes me different? She knows I'd had a lot of GF's before her, and she knows I had very few qualms about quickly having sex with women. So why her?

 

I could give you a long list, her personality, her smile, her intelligence, her laughter, the way she makes me feel, her honestly (absent the A, of course), the way she makes me a better person and of course, her beauty. The hard thing to hear, of course, is that it's very possible another person had those qualities too, or at least some of them, who I'd dated in the past. I just wasn't look for them, I didn't care. The only quality I cared about was "Do you want to get naked with me", I never looked beyond that with the vast majority of my previous GFs. Those I did look beyond that with, were not good matches, they really weren't. So, it's not "just timing" it's timing combined with being a good match, good partner, and being "in sync". Could you recreate that with someone else? Maybe, perhaps even probably. It's the question I asked myself over and over again after d-day. For me, I decided it was worth trying to fix it, because I realized I was still in love with her, even with what she'd done, and I thought I could learn to forgive it.

 

I can't really advise single women on what to do with men today, or men like me. When I was single before my W, I was a terrible partner. Not because I was cheating, but because I didn't care about them. But how do you tell? Actions, perhaps, I was always out/about, never answered calls, met women on my terms (all learned from pick up books). But I was doing that up to the moment I met my W, so, just looking at that wouldn't tell you the whole story, or even the right story. I have no idea "how to tell" when you're dealing with a single man.

 

But, all that said, if it's hard with a single man, it's near impossible with a married one! Now you have a relationship that's entirely built on lies, including the biggest lie of all. In some ways, it's easier to read their intentions because, they are showing you, very clearly, what they want. Think of dating a guy who goes, every night, over to another woman's house and sleeps with her. That's what married men do ladies! You think they're not sleeping with their wives? LOL, oldest lie in the book (well, 2nd oldest, "I love you" for sex probably being the first). How is that not showing you, loud and clear, what you need to see? He sleeps with you, then goes home and sleeps with his wife. Yes, I know he says he doesn't, he's lying. What more do you need, how much more messed up a situation do you want to be in than that one? At least if you date a rock star, he lies to you about the other groupies, a married man is telling you, straight up, "yup, I'm sleeping with other people, and I care about her more" every time you see him. Men might be OK with that, I know I would have been as a younger man (I didn't really care if my girls I was sleeping with slept with other people, so long as I was still "getting it" and they didn't push for monogamy). But women, are you really OK with this arrangement? That, I suppose, is the fundamental question I'm asking in this thread.

[wmacbride]

I see what you're saying.

 

I think women who feel they are starved for attention will choose to believe even fake attention because, well, it's ATTENTION. I think most women who cheat because of perceived desperation, if they hadn't let down their defenses, would see a "playa" a mile away. But in that moment of wanting what they want at any cost, they choose to believe it's real. Because they need it to be real.

 

It's not a conscious thing. And most women will deny that with their last breath. But if they REALLY look back at why they chose to be with someone who in retrospect was so obviously a cad, it makes sense.

 

don't forget that there are women who are "fixers". they see a man who they feel is wounded somehow and they can't stay away.

[DKT3]

All very interesting.

 

This sexual competition theory is fascinating to me. I think it explains men's lack of respect for women in casual relationships. If you think about it from the perspective of an affair, an MM with a MW might look at her as someone willing to give it to him as well as her husband...and who knows who else. And I never really thought about the fact that men do not want their women to be desirable (in general...to other men). I mean, I get it. I guess I always thought that men would want their women to be "hot" or attractive. But it makes sense that they want that reserved for THEM. They don't want it perceived that they are out 'working it' or putting out an air of sexual availability AT ALL. If a woman is attractive or very beautiful, that is one thing. It doesn't mean she has to put out that 'thing' that indicates availability. I have very beautiful friends who do not get hit on AT ALL, and it's because they don't put that out there.

 

If your primary theory regarding men cheating is because they are sex-starved, it doesn't TOTALLY jive with the article:

 

Why do men cheat?

Sex: 44 percent

Variety: 40 percent

More satisfying sex: 38 percent

Excitement: 30 percent

 

Yes, a good deal just want sex. But some are obviously getting it, yet want it to be more satisfying. The rest just want some excitement and strange.

In reality men cheat for one reason... opportunity.

 

Like the saying a man is only as faithful as his options.

 

ONELOVE, I get your concern. If a man marries because the time is right why is his wife veiwed as more then the girl at the right time. It's more complicated than that. Example, once my brother finished medical school he was ready...he took the long route, did a tour in the Navy out of high school then college, then med school. He was dating a nice young lady also a doctor. Even though he was ready, she wasn't the right one. He started looking for the right one with the idea of her being his wife. Upon reflection he realized that one from his past maybe the one. He contacted her, she had become a mother but wasn't in a relationship. They married shortly after and have been together since.

 

Most men won't marry just to marry, she has to be special beyond others. Some time we get the right lady at the wrong time.

 

I honestly believe that more men marry for the right reason then women. And usually at the right time...

[Overtaxed]

All very interesting.

 

This sexual competition theory is fascinating to me. I think it explains men's lack of respect for women in casual relationships. If you think about it from the perspective of an affair, an MM with a MW might look at her as someone willing to give it to him as well as her husband...and who knows who else. And I never really thought about the fact that men do not want their women to be desirable (in general...to other men). I mean, I get it. I guess I always thought that men would want their women to be "hot" or attractive. But it makes sense that they want that reserved for THEM. They don't want it perceived that they are out 'working it' or putting out an air of sexual availability AT ALL. If a woman is attractive or very beautiful, that is one thing. It doesn't mean she has to put out that 'thing' that indicates availability. I have very beautiful friends who do not get hit on AT ALL, and it's because they don't put that out there.

 

If your primary theory regarding men cheating is because they are sex-starved, it doesn't TOTALLY jive with the article:

 

Why do men cheat?

Sex: 44 percent

Variety: 40 percent

More satisfying sex: 38 percent

Excitement: 30 percent

 

Yes, a good deal just want sex. But some are obviously getting it, yet want it to be more satisfying. The rest just want some excitement and strange.

 

Bolded above. Exactly how I feel about it. I want my W/SO to be beautiful, I do. I just don't want her to need every guy in the room to stare at her to feel that she's beautiful, I want her to see it in my eyes and have that be enough.

 

My W claims she never gets hit on. I've never actually seen her get hit on (she did, obviously, during her A), but, either way, it's because she doesn't put it out there. People say that attractive women often develop "resting b**ch face", (not intended to degrade any gender, that's just what it's called) and, in many ways, I suppose they have to to keep men away from them. I have no doubt, NONE at all, if my W went to a bar tonight and acted the slightest bit open to advances, she'd leave with half a dozen numbers. But I also have no doubt that should she go to a bar tonight, not a single number will come her way. Because she doesn't "put it out there". We all know women who do, who want every guy in the room thinking about them sexually, and, no, I don't think most men want that, not at all.

 

I wouldn't say that the primary reason men cheat is sexual starvation. Some men cheat who have a TON of sex. But, I think the "sexual starvation theory" does explain why so many men are so adept at lying for sex (both in and out of an A). We have to, or we starve. Only those who make it to the very top, actors, rich men, famous sports figures can drop the mask and tell a woman "We're going to have sex tonight, then I will never call you again; in fact, you won't even get my number" and have that be OK. Painful thing to hear, but, in fact, many men would like to be able to do exactly this, lying is tiring, it's wrong, and we don't want to do it. I never wanted to lie for sex. But I did, lie.. A whole lot. And I suspect that most men will echo that experience. Was it because I was starving or a glutton? That's open for debate, but, end of the day, I had an appetite that wasn't be filled, a few lies to get what I needed seemed, at the time, a very small price to pay.

[Millhouse]

Women are willing to provide sex to get an emotional attachment. Men will offer an emotional attachment to get sex.

 

Nailed it.

 

Personally, I think men have affairs for sex, which comes from a need to feel feel better about themselves.

 

Women have affairs for emotional attachment, which comes from a need to feel better about themselves.

[somanymistakes]

He sleeps with you, then goes home and sleeps with his wife. Yes, I know he says he doesn't, he's lying. What more do you need, how much more messed up a situation do you want to be in than that one? At least if you date a rock star, he lies to you about the other groupies, a married man is telling you, straight up, "yup, I'm sleeping with other people, and I care about her more" every time you see him. Men might be OK with that, I know I would have been as a younger man (I didn't really care if my girls I was sleeping with slept with other people, so long as I was still "getting it" and they didn't push for monogamy). But women, are you really OK with this arrangement? That, I suppose, is the fundamental question I'm asking in this thread.

 

Well, as you know, a lot of the people in the OW forum believe that he never sleeps with his wife.

 

In my case he hasn't claimed that they never have sex just that it's extremely rare, less than once a month. Considering how many married men I see complain about their sex lives being that low, it sounds believable to me.

[Southern Sun]

 

But, all that said, if it's hard with a single man, it's near impossible with a married one! Now you have a relationship that's entirely built on lies, including the biggest lie of all. In some ways, it's easier to read their intentions because, they are showing you, very clearly, what they want. Think of dating a guy who goes, every night, over to another woman's house and sleeps with her. That's what married men do ladies! You think they're not sleeping with their wives? LOL, oldest lie in the book (well, 2nd oldest, "I love you" for sex probably being the first). How is that not showing you, loud and clear, what you need to see? He sleeps with you, then goes home and sleeps with his wife. Yes, I know he says he doesn't, he's lying. What more do you need, how much more messed up a situation do you want to be in than that one? At least if you date a rock star, he lies to you about the other groupies, a married man is telling you, straight up, "yup, I'm sleeping with other people, and I care about her more" every time you see him. Men might be OK with that, I know I would have been as a younger man (I didn't really care if my girls I was sleeping with slept with other people, so long as I was still "getting it" and they didn't push for monogamy). But women, are you really OK with this arrangement? That, I suppose, is the fundamental question I'm asking in this thread.

 

Part of the problem is that we ladies don't seem to read these forums obsessively until AFTER we've had the dumb affair

 

BUT...here is where you cannot paint every affair with the same broad brush.

 

I am 99.9% certain that my MM did NOT have sex with his wife. I know, I know, oldest line in the book. I have STRONG reasons to believe it was the truth. And he didn't have to tell me that. I had to maintain a sexual relationship with my H and he knew that. We would have been on even playing ground. The only reason I do not say I am 100% certain is that it is simply impossible for me to be, as I am not him nor his wife.

 

In the midst of high emotions in the early stages of an affair, the whole "we want each other but can't totally have each other" or "I want you to be mine but I can't have you completely" adds to the obstacle-laden nature of the whole mess. It amps up the yearning and tweaks the pain which makes it feel more...romantic. I'm telling you, you begin to link love with pain pretty quickly. You don't desire what you HAVE.

 

I don't know how men feel but do think women can feel this way. So even if we know the MMs are having sex with their wives, it just creates more yearning. And then jealousy. And then competition, even if just inside our own minds.

 

I personally never felt this way about MM's wife. I knew their relationship was pretty dead. I felt sad for her and them but I didn't think about them in that way.

 

Even in my situation though, I struggled with cognitive dissonance. Though I believed he was telling me the truth about no sex with his wife, I knew he was lying in general. He was lying to his wife about me. He could have been lying to me about other things. Yet supposedly it was because we were SPECIAL.

 

That is the kicker I think, right there. We buy into the lie that we are special. There is something different about us...about me...about him...about the two of us together. That he would never do any of this if it weren't for me. And I would never do any of this if it weren't for him. We certainly don't see any of it as an 'arrangement.'

 

It's only later when reality starts punching us in the face that we begin to see the dirtiness of it all.

[wmacbride]

This is an interesting question, and I don't think it is off-topic because it highlights one of the ways many women tend to differ from many men. Many of the men I know do not subscribe to the "there's only one" theory - the idea that in all the world there is this mysterious "one" who is perfect for you. Yet most of the women I know (at least when they were young) believe that there is a "one."

 

I don't. I believe that we may encounter several (or even many) people with whom we could mesh very well and have a love relationship. But timing, circumstances, being ready, etc. tend to dictate which of those actually becomes "the one." My fiance is amazing, and I think the best thing that has ever happened to me. But ten years ago? Five years ago? I probably wouldn't have thought of him that way. Because tne years ago my life was in some turmoil, and five years ago...well five years ago let's just say I was going through an idiot phase lol

 

in many western societies, girls are brought up to believe in "the fairy tale". Through disney and other purveyors of myth, we are subtly told that prince charming will come and take us away from all of this, and we'll be head over heels in love, making goo goo eyes at each other for the rest of our lives.

 

realistically, that isn't going to happen.

[Overtaxed]

In reality men cheat for one reason... opportunity.

 

Like the saying a man is only as faithful as his options.

 

 

 

LOL, funny, but I think it's a bridge too far. I've had plenty of opportunity to cheat. Actually, right after my W's A was discovered, an attractive female colleague of mine (who happens to have the same first name as my W, talk about a gut punch) was at a work event with me, in a hotel, and "reached out" in a way that was obviously a "door opener" for sex later that evening. Didn't respond, went back to my hotel room to write more to the W about healing our relationship from her A. Not because I'm a saint, oh man, am I not a saint. Not because she didn't deserve a few pictures from that encounter, she did. Not because I was afraid to have an A because I thought I'd be discovered, I wouldn't have been; 2000 miles away, no possible communication path from the possible AP to my W. And not because I didn't find her attractive, I did (well, except for her name, that would somehow taken it from horribly wrong to 7th circle of hell wrong).

 

Nope, it was because I love my W, and I was more interested in her, and in our relationship than I was in having sex with some woman who was making it very obvious that this was a "sex only" thing and was just for fun. I had my ring on, just like my W did during her A, and it turned my stomach to think that this woman didn't care at all that I was married and what she'd do to my W. It showed me what I needed to see about her, and I walked away. People get all caught up in trying to be the "bigger person" or, as I call it, playing with fire. I just ignored her message and went to bed. The moment you engage someone who's looking is the moment you're hooked!

 

But back to the topic at hand, I travel as does my W often for work. I have plenty of opportunity to groom an AP, and I occasionally (like the story above) have women actually kind of "offer it up". It's not a lack of options, it's a lack of desire to sleep with someone other than my W that keeps me from doing it. And, the one thing I would actually say I'm good at; ROCK SOLID boundaries. I never eat dinner with/engage in small talk or give any personal information to anyone I can avoid doing that with at work. I never drink with my work associates. I even try to avoid team events because I know, "this is where it happens". I've grown to love room service in hotels!