Why we cheat.

[Redhead14]

If a cheater has children . . . what does he or she say to them when they want to know where they've been, why they have to go two different places to be with one parent or the other, why their things are divided between two locations, why Mommy is crying all the time and Daddy seems uninvolved in their lives, why, when they are scared at night and want their Dad to be there and isn't or later, ask them if it's OK if they sleep around on their wives or husbands . . . or why does Mommy's new boyfriend touch me at night or why does Daddy's new girlfriend yell at me or "you know, Mom or Dad, my world is turned upside down, I'm confused and scared and I don't trust anyone . . . "

 

Or, when their adult daughter is with a cheating husband and trying desperately to keep him in her life at any cost . . .

[wmacbride]

...Or they may be quite happy to hurt their BS as they have built up resentment and feel that the BS deserves anything that is coming to them.

 

That sounds so passive aggressive, but i think you are probably right.

 

elaine,

 

 

 

I'm sure that's true in some circumstances. This indicates to me that the WS has some serious issues with communication, dealing with negative emotions and relationships in general.

 

This makes a lot of sense. Everyone has different life experiences that shape who they are, and it can be really hard to speak to your spouse if you are feeling hurt/angry etc., and I think for some, getting into an A is a form of escape. The ws can go to la la land or little while, and avoid the conversation.

 

Just speaking for myself, thee have been times when my husband and I didn't communicate well, and I know that contributed to his cheating. Looking back, I see his behavior before the A as a cry for help, but I didn't realize it. I'd never seen it before, and I thought it would pass.

 

I didn't know what to ask, and to be honest, I don't know if he could have answered me, even if I had.

Edited June 22, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[Overtaxed]

That sounds so passive aggressive, but i think you are probably right.

 

 

 

This makes a lot of sense. Everyone has different life experiences that shape who they are, and it can be really hard to speak to your spouse if you are feeling hurt/angry etc., and I think for some, getting into an A is a form of escape. The ws can go to la la land or little while, and avoid the conversation.

 

Just speaking for myself, thee have been times when my husband and I didn't communicate well, and I know that contributed to his cheating. Looking back, I see his behavior before the A as a cry for help, but I didn't realize it. I'd never seen it before, and I thought it would pass.

 

I didn't know what to ask, and to be honest, I don't know if he could have answered me, even if I had.

 

Yup, very similar to my situation. And very common, especially from WW's, hence the term "exit affair". Instead of ending the marriage, they have an A and force the BS to end it instead. About as passive aggressive as you can get.

 

And yes, my W's behavior during and directly before the A was a cry for help. I didn't realize it though, it looked very similar to "stress" and we had plenty to be stressed about at that time in our lives (outside the A). It's terrifying, because, even though I missed the signs and I know what to look for now, it isn't that different than just a normal "rough patch" that everyone has in a marriage where your not totally in sync. Can be from too much time apart (work travel for us), not agreeing on a big issue, external stresses. Or because of an A. It's one of the things I wonder, will I think "A!" next time she acts like that and totally misread that she's just under some kind of external pressure? I suspect I will.

[wmacbride]

Yup, very similar to my situation. And very common, especially from WW's, hence the term "exit affair". Instead of ending the marriage, they have an A and force the BS to end it instead. About as passive aggressive as you can get.

 

And yes, my W's behavior during and directly before the A was a cry for help. I didn't realize it though, it looked very similar to "stress" and we had plenty to be stressed about at that time in our lives (outside the A). It's terrifying, because, even though I missed the signs and I know what to look for now, it isn't that different than just a normal "rough patch" that everyone has in a marriage where your not totally in sync. Can be from too much time apart (work travel for us), not agreeing on a big issue, external stresses. Or because of an A. It's one of the things I wonder, will I think "A!" next time she acts like that and totally misread that she's just under some kind of external pressure? I suspect I will.

 

You might, but if you do, this is where all the work you two have been doing will come into play.

 

The next rough patch, if you are worried she's cheating, tell her. Don't accuse her, but own your feelings of fear. let her know that you aren't accusing her, but given what has happened, you can' help it if it pops into your mind.

 

In all honesty, i think you and your wife will come out the other side of this and be a even stronger couple. It's taken a while, but it sounds like "the fog" is clearing for her. I don't remember that phase, as he was away when it happened to him. As he put it, there had been so much going on in the days before he left that he didn't have much time to face what he did. He explained that he was going about his work flashing the coms systems in the vehicles ( something to do with he software, not "flashing" like the guy in the raincoat type flashing:laugh::laugh:) , and he suddenly asked himself "what the hell did I do?".

 

that's when he really started to think about what he'd done,and when he came back and saw the mess he'd left behind, it hit him full force

[Unforseen]

Sorry, but I don't buy into this one bit. Ho could someone not know how hurtful it would be? You'd have to have zero empathy, or be purposely convincing yourself that no one will be hurt.

 

I think the truth is more like, at that point time, they simply don't care, as their own wants are more important.

 

Tough to say. For my W I think it was a combination. She wasn't brave enough to tell me how unhappy she was and at the same time had been faking or concealing her true emotions for so long that I didn't realize how she truly felt. Because of all that she had determined that we were done and in many ways she didn't care if there were going to be any consequences.

 

At the same time, at some level, she didn't want our marriage to end. She just didn't think it was worth the risk of finding out if her fears were true or not. She has said that she felt dead inside to things in the real world while her relationships in the online world made her feel alive.

 

At some level I can understand the path that she took to become a WW, but I don't know if I'll ever understand how she let it happen.

[Arieswoman]

wmacbride,

Just speaking for myself, thee have been times when my husband and I didn't communicate well, and I know that contributed to his cheating.

 

I think you're perception is a bit skewed here and in some way you're trying to take blame for your WHs affair.

 

Cheating isn't caused by the BS and it certainly isn't caused by imperfect relationships. After all, you were in the same relationship and you didn't cheat !

 

Both parties are responsible for the dynamics of the relationship but as soon as the WS steps outside the relationship the BS's responsibility for the health of the relationship ends.

 

Hindsight is always 20/20 vision

 

My exH wasn't a good communicator, was conflict avoidant, passive agressive and had entitlement issues - all typical cheater characteristics. However, at the time I met him I was a young, naiive, people pleaser, and I wouldn't have known a Red Flag from a dish rag.

 

I believe his cheating began when I started to stand up for myself and wanted more from the marriage then being a "sexual housekeeper". He could have put on his big boy pants and started contributing more to the of the marriage, but he didn't. That decision was entirely his choice.

[Unforseen]

And yet somehow figuring out and accepting that my Ws A was not about me is right up there as one of the most difficult things to deal with. Maybe it's because accepting that also means accepting that it was all her decision. That someone I trusted completely decided of her own free will that attention from other men was desired, sought after, and acceptable. It's like somehow imagining that it was my fault would make her less guilty and allow me to not have to come to terms with how selfishly she acted. For some reason the motivation of "because she wanted to" is a difficult thing idea to hang around her neck because cheating was not something that I ever thought she would be capable of.

 

Not to long into our marriage after a bit of a fight I remember her telling me that she would put up with a lot of crap from me, but if I ever cheated on her we were done. I guess I thought that she meant that for herself as well. Oh the sweet irony of it all.

 

While I understand it was her choices and her actions and I should not feel any fault or blame, I still struggle with accepting that. How could something so damaging to me have nothing to do with me? I realize it was something broken in her that allowed her to make those choices, but I was shredded by the jagged edges of her brokenness.

[Arieswoman]

Unforseen,

 

And yet somehow figuring out and accepting that my Ws A was not about me is right up there as one of the most difficult things to deal with.

 

and that's true for a great many of us BSs.

 

Being honest about our cheater’s character, forces us to consider unpleasant, unpalatable and difficult scenarios for our future with (or without) them.

 

It's easier to take some blame and then we can fool ourselves that have at least some control over future outcomes.

 

To accept that we have no control over anyone else's behaviour can make us feel vulnerable and powerless.

This is especially true if we have decided to try to reconcile with the WS.

[Cymbeline]

I am female, and I know we women and men communicate and understand differently. What is the distinction between these two statements? I am asking directly relevant to the theme of the OP because I wonder if sometimes not communicating what we think we did or not understanding what was communicated could lead to frustration and resentment, which could lead to justification and entitlement, which could lead to the choice to cheat. So if we can stop the train before it leaves the station, then it would short circuit our "why".

 

Because communicating in a way that absolutely ensures that the receiving partner understands completely is really difficult. I do think MC is useful before a crisis but it rarely happens. Most useful would be to teach young people about the reality of romantic love - that is is entirely a projection and will be transient. The business of marital love is quite different yet almost none of us are really prepared for it. One of the reasons arranged marriages work well are that they are well contracted - expectations are clear and the wider family is also contracted in. It just doesn't sound as exciting .

Edited June 23, 2017 by Cymbeline

[cocorico]

I'm sure that's true in some circumstances. This indicates to me that the WS has some serious issues with communication, dealing with negative emotions and relationships in general.

 

Or, that they've given up trying after being stonewalled by the BS for so long.

 

Yes, they could "simply leave"... but sometimes they feel they can't (because of the kids, or the ill spouse, or the pets, or finances, or whatever...)

[cocorico]

Cheating isn't caused by the BS and it certainly isn't caused by imperfect relationships. After all, you were in the same relationship and you didn't cheat !

 

"Perception is reality" according to psychologists. Two people are not "in the same relationship" if they're both experiencing it very differently. An abuser can be very happy with an abusive R; the abused, notsomuch. To say "you were in the same R and you didn't cheat / leave / get depressed" just says, "you were so out of tune with how your partner was feeling that you weren't aware they were unhappy enough to cheat / leave / get depressed", hence not cheating / leaving / getting depressed yourself.

[Chilli]

If a cheater has children . . . what does he or she say to them when they want to know where they've been, why they have to go two different places to be with one parent or the other, why their things are divided between two locations, why Mommy is crying all the time and Daddy seems uninvolved in their lives, why, when they are scared at night and want their Dad to be there and isn't or later, ask them if it's OK if they sleep around on their wives or husbands . . . or why does Mommy's new boyfriend touch me at night or why does Daddy's new girlfriend yell at me or "you know, Mom or Dad, my world is turned upside down, I'm confused and scared and I don't trust anyone . . . "

 

Or, when their adult daughter is with a cheating husband and trying desperately to keep him in her life at any cost . . .

 

 

There's a lot of guy stuff in there at the heart but women and wives aren't saints either, believe me.

Many things and stories l've heard of women doing too make me sick to the stomach. Wives , mothers, destroying their families and their kids . As a matter of fact they're better at it than men these days from the stats , far better at it.

Just sayin, this stuff all goes both ways.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Chilli

[Arieswoman]

corocorio,

 

To say "you were in the same R and you didn't cheat / leave / get depressed" just says, "you were so out of tune with how your partner was feeling that you weren't aware they were unhappy enough to cheat / leave / get depressed", hence not cheating / leaving / getting depressed yourself.

 

I don't go along with this, which sounds like a cheater apologism to me.

 

Since when has being a mindreader been a prerequisite for a successful relationship? Communication is a 2-way street. and you can't be "in tune" with someone who has a list of unverbalised grievances (either real or imagined)

 

Why do some people get the idea that marriage is about the other person meeting their needs? How did they get so far away from personal responsibility for meeting their own needs that they expect others to do it for them?

 

The answer to that conundrum is entitlement.

 

When you are living with someone who has entitlement issues, like I was, it can make your life a living hell, because no matter what you do or say, such people will never be happy. Nothing will ever be enough. It’s as if there were a hole in their soul that just can’t be filled, and it will make for an unhappy life if the problem continues.

No matter how hard I tried I felt it was like pouring water down a bottomless pit.

In those days I didn't see it for what it was, or I'd have left the marriage before he had an affair, or maybe not even got into it.

 

As we all know hindsight is always 20/20 vision..

[Redhead14]

There's a lot of guy stuff in there at the heart but women and wives aren't saints either, believe me.

Many things and stories l've heard of women doing too make me sick to the stomach. Wives , mothers, destroying their families and their kids . As a matter of fact they're better at it than men these days from the stats , far better at it.

Just sayin, this stuff all goes both ways.

 

I included men and women who cheat . . .

[knabe]

Because communicating in a way that absolutely ensures that the receiving partner understands completely is really difficult. I do think MC is useful before a crisis but it rarely happens. Most useful would be to teach young people about the reality of romantic love - that is is entirely a projection and will be transient. The business of marital love is quite different yet almost none of us are really prepared for it. One of the reasons arranged marriages work well are that they are well contracted - expectations are clear and the wider family is also contracted in. It just doesn't sound as exciting .

 

Exactly. Saying "I would have changed if he/she had used the right words" is a cop-out. We're grownups. We know how to understand most English. If you don't get that "I feel terribly lonely" means you are neglecting you're spouse, then I'm not sure what to say.

[knabe]

There's a lot of guy stuff in there at the heart but women and wives aren't saints either, believe me.

Many things and stories l've heard of women doing too make me sick to the stomach. Wives , mothers, destroying their families and their kids . As a matter of fact they're better at it than men these days from the stats , far better at it.

Just sayin, this stuff all goes both ways.

 

Did anyone say this wasn't the case?

[knabe]

Why do some people get the idea that marriage is about the other person meeting their needs?

 

Because a famous author said so

[Chilli]

The thing is , l was in a divorce forum 2yrs after mine and you know what , hardly any of the partners that ran of cheating, ever said one thing about being unhappy.

That was actually very rare.

Many of them had just been saying only weeks before, how happy they were or talking about the future, or still making plans, all kinds of things.

Matter of fact, that was the most common scenario .

It seemed like most pretend everything is just hunky dory , while out cheating , even planning the escape and divorce, yet still pretending.

[Chilli]

Did anyone say this wasn't the case?

 

Read it , bit too daddy to blame over all it in the end but don't expect me to point it all out.

[Redhead14]

The thing is , l was in a divorce forum 2yrs after mine and you know what , hardly any of the partners that ran of cheating, ever said one thing about being unhappy.

That was actually very rare.

Many of them had just been saying only weeks before, how happy they were or talking about the future, or still making plans, all kinds of things.

Matter of fact, that was the most common scenario .

It seemed like most pretend everything is just hunky dory , while out cheating , even planning the escape and divorce, yet still pretending.

 

When they are in the cheating mode, they are very careful not to raise suspicion in any way, shape or form. Sometimes, perhaps they are happy with the relationship, they just want their cake and eat it too. It's about only using their "little heads" or "little men in the boat" and not the one that sits on their necks which is the one that is connected to conscience, forethought for consequences or actions and the affect on others and, most importantly, their children if they have any.

 

They wear masks very well and, if a person can walk around with this kind of secret and function "normally", etc., you have to wonder what else is going on behind those masks -- very, very often there is financial irresponsibility, poor decision-making in other realms of their lives. It's not just about sleeping around, there's other stuff going on.

 

They keep it a secret for no other reason than to not have to deal with consequences and legal issues or to have to look their partners/children/families in the eyes.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Redhead14

[knabe]

Yes, and women do the same thing at times. OR...sometimes when women have talked and cried until they are blue in the face and out of tears, they just stop talking about it. The man sadly and foolishly assumes "well since she's not nagging me she must be fine now."

 

No, she just gave up. And THAT is a very dangerous place for a woman to be.

 

Don't like it if you don't like it. It's still true. Period.

 

i used to sing concerts all over my local area. I had my own sound system. After using it a couple of years and not rolling up the cords properly, it becamse unpredictable. Sometimes the sound would go out mid song. A couple of times I couldn't get it to work at all.

 

I could have blamed the venues or the cassette tapes (yes I am old). Bottom line? Since I just wadded up the cords any old way, one of them got a short. I had to buy a new one.

 

And because I'm not an idiot, I wrapped the new cords correctly. And guess what? They didn't short.

 

Now, a better cord might not have shorted. In fact, I am fairly certain it would have withstood the use. But to say my wadding it up had no effect would have just been idiotic, quite frankly.

 

So if your marriage starts shorting and your spouse complains, it is NEVER a justification to cheat. Ever.

 

But perhaps you should listen to them. Just a thought.

[DKT3]

"Perception is reality" according to psychologists. Two people are not "in the same relationship" if they're both experiencing it very differently. An abuser can be very happy with an abusive R; the abused, notsomuch. To say "you were in the same R and you didn't cheat / leave / get depressed" just says, "you were so out of tune with how your partner was feeling that you weren't aware they were unhappy enough to cheat / leave / get depressed", hence not cheating / leaving / getting depressed yourself.

 

Sounds like some BS to me....this theory almost wipes out ones personal responsibility. Bad relationships don't cause someone to have poor boundaries and lack the ability to make sound decisions.

[carhill]

Since everyone has cheated on, lied about/to or deceived something or someone in their life, it's easy. Why did (general) you cheat? The human answer is because you personally benefited from it, regardless of the cost to or hurt of others. Humans are selfish, self-involved organisms who only network and socially bond to benefit themselves. IMO, that's not a bad thing. Survive and reproduce. That's what nature has programed the species to do. All the rest is big brain rationalizing it.

 

[Whoknew30]

Also someone wins Powerball... doesn't mean you should bank your retirement on the chance.

 

Of course he will develop some kind of emotional connection, unless he is a sociopath.

 

We hear 98% of MW/OM claim they have found the golden unicorn, that this relationship is special that it's more then sex because they rarely have it.

 

I'm not sure where Whoknew was going with her post, but she brings up a very valid point. If MM is cheating for sex, maybe a lack of sex in his marriage, how on Earth does the MW/OW convince themselves the affair isn't about sex? If he is getting none in his marriage than once every month or so is an improvement. Love>logic

 

My point is this study is based on only sex. When a man is in to a woman & she's in to him, sex usually will happen...so a study stating sex is the main component for an A isn't mind blowing but to say of the OW quit having sex with MM that the relationship would be over is just no different than any man not having sex in a relationship, once sex stops for "most" men, the relationship is just on borrowed time.

[knabe]

Since everyone has cheated on, lied about/to or deceived something or someone in their life, it's easy. Why did (general) you cheat? The human answer is because you personally benefited from it, regardless of the cost to or hurt of others. Humans are selfish, self-involved organisms who only network and socially bond to benefit themselves. IMO, that's not a bad thing. Survive and reproduce. That's what nature has programed the species to do. All the rest is big brain rationalizing it.

 

 

This is a nEXCELLENT point. Why do we usually do ANYTHING even though the honest part of us knows it's wrong? There's some perceived (or actual) reward in it for us. And we choose to trade our ethics for the reward.