How to move forward...

[DKT3]

Actually, having read the OP's original thread I don't think the above is the situation either. I don't get the impression that the OP has ever wanted to leave her marriage for the MM or for the MM to leave his marriage for her. They haven't ever had sex and I don't think the OP wants to even cross that line. Not saying that the emotional affair isn't wrong but I just don't think the OP views her husband as the default or second best option.

 

I think what happened is the OP simply formed an emotional attachment/addiction to another man and now she is having a difficult time getting herself free of it. Obviously she shouldn't have ever allowed that attachment to develop but she did and now she is going to have to go through the pain of breaking that attachment. I think once she successfully does that her feelings for her husband will rise to the surface again.

 

I'm not sure about this....she made a comment about her heart wanting MM but her head wants to stay married....I do believe if the opportunity presented itself she would leave her marriage. I think deep down these people know these affairs aren't sustainable as normal relationships, logic. However, is it fair to make your spouse the logical choice, when your heart is elsewhere?

 

I firmly believe in cases like this it's best to move on....I wouldn't want a woman who wants another man and is only with me because the other man is unavailable or illogical. No one deserves to be anyone make it work person.

[BigBlueSky]

I can give you the platitudes that it gets easier, but you won't believe me right now. Trust me it does. Just when you think it won't, it suddenly does. I wanted to get to this place of no feelings or emotions so badly, I had to finally accept they were there and I had to feel them in order to get through them.

 

Don't think about anything else but a day at a time. If you have to think an hour at a time, a minute at a time, do it.

 

I compare it to an addiction and right now you are "jonesing" in a bad way. But you will soon realize you are off that roller coaster of highs and lows and eventually that feeling outweighs the need for the fix.

 

Grieve it. Allow yourself to feel the emotions. And it's going to be hard because you have to do this in private.

 

Exercise, meditate and find joy in the little things. Live in the now.

 

All of this easier said than done. I remember saying the exact same things you are: I don't want to feel this way, I don't want to have feelings for him, but you have to allow that you did and you do and that's okay. You are just choosing every day not to act on them anymore.

 

Confessing? Not on the table yet. Sort yourself out first. Then go read my long and boring thread.

 

No one truly understands this unless they've experienced it. It's real and it hurts and it's okay. I hated myself for having those feelings, but they've diminished so much.

 

Get off all social media where you have a connection to him. I disabled my accounts and that helped a lot. Keep posting and reading. So many stories of people experiencing what we did and they are further along in the process. Midnight Blue, Jenkins, Southern Sun and He Can't Break Me have been huge inspirations for me so find those threads that motivate and comfort you. They've all been there. They get it. They don't judge. And that's what you need right now.

 

ds, thanks for always encouraging me. I know you understand what I'm going through.

 

You know, I do believe you when you say that it will get better. I have had glimpses of feeling more settled already even though my thoughts and feelings are still often chaotic. I'll be continuing to read on here and seeing about starting IC. I don't know if I want to fully grieve and feel. I know you and others have said that it's necessary to do it. It's a hard thing to face.

 

Thankfully MM and his wife are not on any social media. We don't have anything connecting us on a regular basis and I know that will make things easier.

 

It's nice to be able to talk to others that "get it". I know that a lot of people have opinions about me (hello out there! you know who you are!) that I might disagree with. And it's hard to fully explain myself on a forum like this while trying to get advice and move forward. But I do appreciate everyone's input and just realize that it's ok to not be fully understood.

[BigBlueSky]

I get this I really do. Do you have hope for your marriage? Do you love your husband? Intimate with him? Don't stay just cos you feel you should

 

I get the grieving for MM while trying to maintain normally- it's so hard. You are doing great

 

I know there will be people out there that can argue against this, but yes I have hope for my marriage and love my husband. I want to work on myself so that this doesn't happen again. The awful decisions I've made and the horrible things I have done have nothing to do with who his is. I know that I am flawed, I was vulnerable and I need to work on things. I'm not staying because of obligation but because I want to.

[BigBlueSky]

I'm not sure about this....she made a comment about her heart wanting MM but her head wants to stay married....I do believe if the opportunity presented itself she would leave her marriage. I think deep down these people know these affairs aren't sustainable as normal relationships, logic. However, is it fair to make your spouse the logical choice, when your heart is elsewhere?

 

I firmly believe in cases like this it's best to move on....I wouldn't want a woman who wants another man and is only with me because the other man is unavailable or illogical. No one deserves to be anyone make it work person.

 

I'm going to say that anika has explained it well. I might have said my heart is with MM, but I realize that those feelings are fleeting. Our relationship was in a bubble, not based on reality, and there would have been no happily ever after.

 

I think I'm done trying to justify whether or not I want to be in my marriage and why. I appreciate that you don't understand and/or disagree with me and that's ok. Please just respect the fact that I'm trying to move on.

[DKT3]

I'm going to say that anika has explained it well. I might have said my heart is with MM, but I realize that those feelings are fleeting. Our relationship was in a bubble, not based on reality, and there would have been no happily ever after.

 

I think I'm done trying to justify whether or not I want to be in my marriage and why. I appreciate that you don't understand and/or disagree with me and that's ok. Please just respect the fact that I'm trying to move on.

 

Sometimes it's a tough to get honest.

 

My wife had an affair, for 6 months I tried to get the truth, I gave up over the next 8 months I detached, brought a condo and started ripping our life together apart. During this time it became clear as day that the marriage was done, there wasn't enough there to sustain the effort. I never stopped loving my wife, she says she never stopped loving me. But she couldn't be honest, and I couldn't live with someone that didn't have enough trust in me to be honest.

 

I think that's where you are, your marriage isn't enough, it wasn't enough to prevent this from happening, your husband doesn't mean enough to you to be honest with him, holding your family isn't enough to pull you out of this. Your focus appears to be me me me.

 

Words are easy, I love my husband and I want my marriage...that doesn't require effort. Actually putting those words into action requires effort, a lot of effort, a lot of unselfishness. It requires that you allow your husband a say in what kind of woman he wants to be married to....you ask how do I move forward..first step is honesty with yourself with your husband.

[Bittersweetie]

I get this may have sounded mean, but OP needs to open her eyes to see how dire things really are. Meanwhile people in affairs here need to see beyond their own pain. There are innocent victims to this who are getting 100x worse.

 

Ima, I totally understand where you are coming from here. And I was a WW. When I was in the A and the immediate aftermath of the A, I could not, at all, fully comprehend the consequences of my actions. I was completely selfish and self-justifying. There is no other explanation than I was a fool of epic proportions.

 

Now, years after the A ending, a d-day, and reconciliation, I can clearly see how hurtful my actions were to others, even if they did not know. My own H made a large career choice based on our life at that time; our life that was a lie. That was wrong.

 

Sometimes it is very difficult to get out of that addiction and cycle of selfishness, justification, and self-protection. We can only hope that BBS will move forward sooner rather than later, before more damage is done to her family and her marriage. We can only hope our words may make a difference. But I can say from experience, it is difficult to break out of that selfish cycle.

Edited June 20, 2017 by Bittersweetie

[BigBlueSky]

Sometimes it's a tough to get honest.

 

My wife had an affair, for 6 months I tried to get the truth, I gave up over the next 8 months I detached, brought a condo and started ripping our life together apart. During this time it became clear as day that the marriage was done, there wasn't enough there to sustain the effort. I never stopped loving my wife, she says she never stopped loving me. But she couldn't be honest, and I couldn't live with someone that didn't have enough trust in me to be honest.

 

I think that's where you are, your marriage isn't enough, it wasn't enough to prevent this from happening, your husband doesn't mean enough to you to be honest with him, holding your family isn't enough to pull you out of this. Your focus appears to be me me me.

 

Words are easy, I love my husband and I want my marriage...that doesn't require effort. Actually putting those words into action requires effort, a lot of effort, a lot of unselfishness. It requires that you allow your husband a say in what kind of woman he wants to be married to....you ask how do I move forward..first step is honesty with yourself with your husband.

 

Hi DKT3, thanks for your words. I do appreciate the time and thought that you have taken. Thanks for sharing a bit of your story and how you felt because of your wife's actions and decisions.

 

I disagree when you say my marriage wasn't enough for me, but you're right in saying that I was and am being selfish. My actions were never because my husband or marriage wasn't good enough. It was because of my shortcomings, poor boundaries and terrible decisions that I know I can never take back.

 

I do agree though that it's easy to say things but actions need to back up words. And part of that is telling my husband what's been going on so that he free to make the choices that are best for him and so he know who I truly am. I guess that's part of being in a marriage.

 

Anyway, just wanted to let you know that although your words are hard to hear, I'm listening and considering what you all are saying.

[DKT3]

Hi DKT3, thanks for your words. I do appreciate the time and thought that you have taken. Thanks for sharing a bit of your story and how you felt because of your wife's actions and decisions.

 

I disagree when you say my marriage wasn't enough for me, but you're right in saying that I was and am being selfish. My actions were never because my husband or marriage wasn't good enough. It was because of my shortcomings, poor boundaries and terrible decisions that I know I can never take back.

 

I do agree though that it's easy to say things but actions need to back up words. And part of that is telling my husband what's been going on so that he free to make the choices that are best for him and so he know who I truly am. I guess that's part of being in a marriage.

 

Anyway, just wanted to let you know that although your words are hard to hear, I'm listening and considering what you all are saying.

 

I get what you're saying, but I don't think you're totally grasping what Im saying. If you really want this stage of your life and life over it takes actions. It takes authentic actions. Tell your husband now, face the consequences of those actions, humble yourself. You've said your not ready, how I read that is your not ready to really put this behind you, to truly give up the affair.

 

This is why I say your marriage isn't enough, if it were you would be doing everything to salvage it, instead a part of you is focused on holding on. Worrying about your feeling for MM instead of your husband. I had this very conversation with my wife at which point she admitted that she had lost respect for me and trust. Odd right. She wasn't that emotionally tangled with the guy, but she wasn't willing to be authentic, wasn't ready to show me who she really was.

 

Get over it by getting honest, by moving your focus, by understanding what is at risk. If that isn't enough than maybe it not something you can maintain, your marriage that is.

[BreakingWave]

Hey there BBS,

 

Just wondering how it's going for you as it's been a few days since we've heard an update. You're in my thoughts.

 

BW

[BigBlueSky]

Hey there BBS,

 

Just wondering how it's going for you as it's been a few days since we've heard an update. You're in my thoughts.

 

BW

 

Hi BW, thanks for checking in. I haven't updated because I wasn't sure I could add anymore to what was being discussed. I've been thinking through what others have said and trying work through things.

 

Some days are easier than others. Last week was ok. I was busy with work and family. Friday morning I was feeling positive about things, but I was sad by the time I got home and the weekend was tough as well. I guess emotionally it's been up and down but at least there are some ups!

 

I've been thinking more about what lead me to make the decisions that I have. Before I met exMM I thought my marriage was pretty solid. My husband and I spent a lot of time together, we got along well and were generally happy. I never thought I would be one to go down this path. It made me sad and angry to hear of other people who ruined their marriages because of affairs. But here I am. I'm trying to figure out the things that have made me vulnerable and to work on those things because I can't let this happen again.

 

Currently, I admit I am still mourning the loss of my relationship and although it makes me sad to think I won't have my exMM in my life, I know the right thing to do is move on. I'm just still trying to sort myself out right now. I'm finding now that I don't have MM to talk to, I realize I was using him to fill in certain gaps and I need to relearn how to navigate without him to lean on anymore.

[DKT3]

Hi BW, thanks for checking in. I haven't updated because I wasn't sure I could add anymore to what was being discussed. I've been thinking through what others have said and trying work through things.

 

Some days are easier than others. Last week was ok. I was busy with work and family. Friday morning I was feeling positive about things, but I was sad by the time I got home and the weekend was tough as well. I guess emotionally it's been up and down but at least there are some ups!

 

I've been thinking more about what lead me to make the decisions that I have. Before I met exMM I thought my marriage was pretty solid. My husband and I spent a lot of time together, we got along well and were generally happy. I never thought I would be one to go down this path. It made me sad and angry to hear of other people who ruined their marriages because of affairs. But here I am. I'm trying to figure out the things that have made me vulnerable and to work on those things because I can't let this happen again.

 

Currently, I admit I am still mourning the loss of my relationship and although it makes me sad to think I won't have my exMM in my life, I know the right thing to do is move on. I'm just still trying to sort myself out right now. I'm finding now that I don't have MM to talk to, I realize I was using him to fill in certain gaps and I need to relearn how to navigate without him to lean on anymore.

 

Why? Why do you need to mourn? Why do you have to force yourself to be in the marriage? Would you want to be with your husband if he had these kinds of issue with getting over someone else? Why not just end your marriage? Why not make a legitimate attempt to have a relationship with MM?

 

No one benefits from having half a wife or mother. What's really the reason?

[wmacbride]

Op,

are you mourning your mm or are you mourning the feelings you had in the A?

 

I'm asking because these really are two distinct situations.

 

If your are mourning how he made you feel, that's actually good, as those feelings can be found in other ways. If you enjoyed how he listened to you, try opening up to your husband in the same way and asking him to really listen. If you liked the ego boost, find other ways to make yourself feel good about yourself.

 

If you really are mourning "him" and not the A itself, then you may be facing a larger problem.

[Overtaxed]

Hi BW, thanks for checking in. I haven't updated because I wasn't sure I could add anymore to what was being discussed. I've been thinking through what others have said and trying work through things.

 

Some days are easier than others. Last week was ok. I was busy with work and family. Friday morning I was feeling positive about things, but I was sad by the time I got home and the weekend was tough as well. I guess emotionally it's been up and down but at least there are some ups!

 

I've been thinking more about what lead me to make the decisions that I have. Before I met exMM I thought my marriage was pretty solid. My husband and I spent a lot of time together, we got along well and were generally happy. I never thought I would be one to go down this path. It made me sad and angry to hear of other people who ruined their marriages because of affairs. But here I am. I'm trying to figure out the things that have made me vulnerable and to work on those things because I can't let this happen again.

 

Currently, I admit I am still mourning the loss of my relationship and although it makes me sad to think I won't have my exMM in my life, I know the right thing to do is move on. I'm just still trying to sort myself out right now. I'm finding now that I don't have MM to talk to, I realize I was using him to fill in certain gaps and I need to relearn how to navigate without him to lean on anymore.

 

Don't kill yourself trying to figure the above (bolded) out. It seems like that will help, that finding that reason will make it all "OK" because you'll have a good explanation for what you did.

 

It won't, and you'll never get that explanation. There's nothing that will make it OK, and there's no explanation that will ever really make sense for most women (for men, sometimes the explanation is simple, she was there, and I was horny, end of "why" discussion). The answer for you (and many others) I suspect is simply shifting boundaries. You let someone get closer and closer until, one day, you wound up in bed with him. It's a story we see here over and over again, but there's no real "why" in that, other than "my boundaries weren't strong enough". The important thing to realize, this WILL happen again. Another man will enter your life and start to press on the boundaries, trying to move closer to you. This is where reflection really can be helpful, because now you'll see it for what it is (he wants to sleep with me; I won't go all hardline here and say that's all he wants, but, it's certainly high on his list of goals) and know how to avoid it.

 

Men and women are different, we really are. The more I read LS, the more I realize how different we are, and, also, how little we understand one another. Men press things, women react to that pressure. That's the typical dance of relationships; you won't find yourself about to have sex with him, or any other man again if you respond appropriately to that pressure. But, just like I tell my WW, this is one of many tests, and you'll face a million more. And every guy that presses will come at it from another angle; the good looking man, the rich man, the sensitive/caring man. All of them, at one point or another, will make some advances to you, and you have to be ready to push them all back. That's the lesson to take from this, not "why", because, the why is obvious. You did this because you wanted to, and because you wanted that other man in your life. The real question, why did you put yourself in a situation where it could happen?

 

In AA, they spend a lot of time talking about that relapse drink. But it's not the drink that they focus on, it's the thought process throughout the day that led you to wind up with a glass of liquor in your hand 8 hours later. You'll never be able to resist the booze in hand, just like you couldn't resist the OM when it was right there in front of you. But you can stop the process, you don't need to "go to the bar", you don't need to imagine the taste of your favorite drink. And if you do, you can replace the happy times with images of the devastation that it caused in your life.

 

The trick isn't to know how to put down the glass of booze, it's to know how to not wind up in the bar in the first place. And the way you do that, at least in my mind, is you stand up very clear boundaries and do NOT let them shift. Men will try to push them, they will, I promise you. It's up to you to be the one to defend your marriage, not them. Their job is to try to get what they can from you with as little investment of time/energy/money as possible. I know, it's a terrible way to think about people, but, it also happens to be true in most cases, so, if you start to frame your relationships with people that way, you'll get a much more "realistic" view on how people interact.

[jenkins95]

Op,

are you mourning your mm or are you mourning the feelings you had in the A?

 

I'm asking because these really are two distinct situations.

 

If your are mourning how he made you feel, that's actually good, as those feelings can be found in other ways. If you enjoyed how he listened to you, try opening up to your husband in the same way and asking him to really listen. If you liked the ego boost, find other ways to make yourself feel good about yourself.

 

If you really are mourning "him" and not the A itself, then you may be facing a larger problem.

 

 

Some good posts on this thread and great to see you still posting Blue.

 

As a former wayward, I will obviously have more sympathy with your position than former betrayeds will tend to have. They understandably will have very little time for "lingering" feelings. But to me, it is quite normal that you will grieve both the MM AND the way he made you feel.

 

I am in no way condoning what you (or I did) and I am not saying it is RIGHT that you miss these things, just that it is normal. You are a human being with thoughts, feelings, memories, dreams and emotions. You have put yourself in a bad position which you now regret. You did this through bad boundaries and selfishness (like me). You are remorseful, have seen the error of your ways and sincerely want to get out of it and put 100% back into the M, where you will hopefully find ways of replacing anything that the A gave. This is all good and I have no doubt that you are completely genuine and have no intentions of restarting this affair again or ever starting another one.

 

However, true as all that is, it still happened. You still have the connection, the memories, the feelings the emotions, thoughts of another possible life.......and you can't simply switch all this off. You have to work through it. Boy, if only we could switch them off just like that! You have these feelings, you don't want them, they are very unwelcome, they unsettle you and make you feel very guilty....but you have them. That's the bottom line.

 

Time and therapy and 100% unwavering dedication and commitment to recovery will sort that out. I do not believe that, just because someone has lingering feelings for an exAP, that it automatically means that they are in false R. Sure, there are other people who genuinely are in false R. They make all the right noises, go to the meetings, say and even do the right things, but are secretly planning to re-start things "once the dust settles". This was NOT me...and I am sure it is NOT you either. Even though I had lingering feelings for the OW, I never considered my W as plan B. I know in my mind that I was not in false R and no one will convince me otherwise of this - it was just a stage to get through.

 

You want to get to a positon of genuine mental peace and put the A behind you, but it will take a few months for those feelings to completely die away. It's horrible for you, and it's so completely unfair and ultra-horrible to your H, but unfortunately this is just another "gift" that often comes from an affair - they truly suck in ever way and have no winners. There are many other posters who have gone or are going through this stage and are doing very well in R - I can think of me, MidngihtBlue, deadsoul and SouthernSun for starters.

 

Whilst I don't disagree with what DKT3 and others have said, I encourage you not to lose hope for your M if you still have feelings for the MM. Keep doing the right things and stay dedicated and committed. You will get there.

 

Keep going Blue - we are here!

Edited June 26, 2017 by jenkins95

[jenkins95]

Don't kill yourself trying to figure the above (bolded) out. It seems like that will help, that finding that reason will make it all "OK" because you'll have a good explanation for what you did.

 

It won't, and you'll never get that explanation. There's nothing that will make it OK, and there's no explanation that will ever really make sense for most women (for men, sometimes the explanation is simple, she was there, and I was horny, end of "why" discussion). The answer for you (and many others) I suspect is simply shifting boundaries. You let someone get closer and closer until, one day, you wound up in bed with him. It's a story we see here over and over again, but there's no real "why" in that, other than "my boundaries weren't strong enough". The important thing to realize, this WILL happen again. Another man will enter your life and start to press on the boundaries, trying to move closer to you. This is where reflection really can be helpful, because now you'll see it for what it is (he wants to sleep with me; I won't go all hardline here and say that's all he wants, but, it's certainly high on his list of goals) and know how to avoid it.

 

Men and women are different, we really are. The more I read LS, the more I realize how different we are, and, also, how little we understand one another. Men press things, women react to that pressure. That's the typical dance of relationships; you won't find yourself about to have sex with him, or any other man again if you respond appropriately to that pressure. But, just like I tell my WW, this is one of many tests, and you'll face a million more. And every guy that presses will come at it from another angle; the good looking man, the rich man, the sensitive/caring man. All of them, at one point or another, will make some advances to you, and you have to be ready to push them all back. That's the lesson to take from this, not "why", because, the why is obvious. You did this because you wanted to, and because you wanted that other man in your life. The real question, why did you put yourself in a situation where it could happen?

 

In AA, they spend a lot of time talking about that relapse drink. But it's not the drink that they focus on, it's the thought process throughout the day that led you to wind up with a glass of liquor in your hand 8 hours later. You'll never be able to resist the booze in hand, just like you couldn't resist the OM when it was right there in front of you. But you can stop the process, you don't need to "go to the bar", you don't need to imagine the taste of your favorite drink. And if you do, you can replace the happy times with images of the devastation that it caused in your life.

 

The trick isn't to know how to put down the glass of booze, it's to know how to not wind up in the bar in the first place. And the way you do that, at least in my mind, is you stand up very clear boundaries and do NOT let them shift. Men will try to push them, they will, I promise you. It's up to you to be the one to defend your marriage, not them. Their job is to try to get what they can from you with as little investment of time/energy/money as possible. I know, it's a terrible way to think about people, but, it also happens to be true in most cases, so, if you start to frame your relationships with people that way, you'll get a much more "realistic" view on how people interact.

 

Overtaxed

 

I have been away from LS for a week or so, and have been catching up on a few threads today. I'd like to say that you have made some truly outstanding contributions in the last few days which I have read several times. You bring a great clarity and much wisdom to your posts. Here is another great one right here ...and there was a whole series on another thread which I will be responding to soon - the stuff you wrote about the little word games APs play (non stop exchange of ILY, etc) as "social graces" where the partners allow each other to buy into the lies really made me think about my own behaviour and struck a chord. Thank you for being here.

Edited June 26, 2017 by jenkins95

[jenkins95]

Why? Why do you need to mourn? Why do you have to force yourself to be in the marriage? Would you want to be with your husband if he had these kinds of issue with getting over someone else? Why not just end your marriage? Why not make a legitimate attempt to have a relationship with MM?

 

No one benefits from having half a wife or mother. What's really the reason?

 

As per my earlier post, while I totally agree with much of what you say, the fact is that Blue is ackowledging that she has been "half a wife", bitterly regrets it, is genuinely sorry and wants to very quickly become 101% wife again while putting MM well and truly behind her.

 

However, this cannot be achieved with the flick of a switch. It will take time and effort, but if she does everything right, it will be worth it, she can spend the rest of her life building a marriage even better that the original (albeit with a stain against it - but a stain that should fade daily).

 

I guess that some of us belive that the truly remorseful do deserve a second chance and that it may take a little while to put things completely back on track again.

 

Of course, if she sees H as plan B, I take all that I say back. But I truly don't believe that she fits into this category.

[Birdies]

Don't kill yourself trying to figure the above (bolded) out. It seems like that will help, that finding that reason will make it all "OK" because you'll have a good explanation for what you did.

 

It won't, and you'll never get that explanation. There's nothing that will make it OK, and there's no explanation that will ever really make sense for most women (for men, sometimes the explanation is simple, she was there, and I was horny, end of "why" discussion). The answer for you (and many others) I suspect is simply shifting boundaries. You let someone get closer and closer until, one day, you wound up in bed with him. It's a story we see here over and over again, but there's no real "why" in that, other than "my boundaries weren't strong enough".

 

This is so true. Sometimes there no bigger overarching "why" other than things in the marriage were stale, the wayward spouse was feeling neglected in some way, someone else was there to distract, and the conditions were such that that person slipped in those cracks when no one else had before. Sometimes there's a perfect storm of conditions and the wayward is just too lazy / weak / whatever to stop the storm from building. I know that's how it was for me.

 

For me, realizing that I am most susceptible to those boundaries being weakened when I am not feeling fulfilled by and connected to my relationship/spouse has been really enlightening. I know to be afraid of getting to that state again, to be on the lookout for the initial signs of it, and to take them seriously.

 

I don't mean to blame my affair on my husband not paying enough attention to me. Clearly it was 100% my fault. But now that I know what I am capable of given the wrong situation, I will work 100x harder to never let things get there again.

 

Good luck OP. Please do what you can to throw yourself back 100% into your marriage. I'm sure your husband misses you and what your marriage used to be like, even though he doesn't know what has happened to it.

[DKT3]

Some good posts on this thread and great to see you still posting Blue.

 

As a former wayward, I will obviously have more sympathy with your position than former betrayeds will tend to have. They understandably will have very little time for "lingering" feelings. But to me, it is quite normal that you will grieve both the MM AND the way he made you feel.

 

I am in no way condoning what you (or I did) and I am not saying it is RIGHT that you miss these things, just that it is normal. You are a human being with thoughts, feelings, memories, dreams and emotions. You have put yourself in a bad position which you now regret. You did this through bad boundaries and selfishness (like me). You are remorseful, have seen the error of your ways and sincerely want to get out of it and put 100% back into the M, where you will hopefully find ways of replacing anything that the A gave. This is all good and I have no doubt that you are completely genuine and have no intentions of restarting this affair again or ever starting another one.

 

However, true as all that is, it still happened. You still have the connection, the memories, the feelings the emotions, thoughts of another possible life.......and you can't simply switch all this off. You have to work through it. Boy, if only we could switch them off just like that! You have these feelings, you don't want them, they are very unwelcome, they unsettle you and make you feel very guilty....but you have them. That's the bottom line.

 

Time and therapy and 100% unwavering dedication and commitment to recovery will sort that out. I do not believe that, just because someone has lingering feelings for an exAP, that it automatically means that they are in false R. Sure, there are other people who genuinely are in false R. They make all the right noises, go to the meetings, say and even do the right things, but are secretly planning to re-start things "once the dust settles". This was NOT me...and I am sure it is NOT you either. Even though I had lingering feelings for the OW, I never considered my W as plan B. I know in my mind that I was not in false R and no one will convince me otherwise of this - it was just a stage to get through.

 

You want to get to a positon of genuine mental peace and put the A behind you, but it will take a few months for those feelings to completely die away. It's horrible for you, and it's so completely unfair and ultra-horrible to your H, but unfortunately this is just another "gift" that often comes from an affair - they truly suck in ever way and have no winners. There are many other posters who have gone or are going through this stage and are doing very well in R - I can think of me, MidngihtBlue, deadsoul and SouthernSun for starters.

 

Whilst I don't disagree with what DKT3 and others have said, I encourage you not to lose hope for your M if you still have feelings for the MM. Keep doing the right things and stay dedicated and committed. You will get there.

 

Keep going Blue - we are here!

 

There is a very soft message in her posts that lead to in my thinking that she should end her marriage....for the most part she speaks of her marriage and husband in past tense...I thought we had a good marriage. But there is a present tense with MM and the affair. These aren't word slips but her true feelings. She is clearly trying to convince herself that she is doing the right thing. While I personally find affairs horrible, sometimes they just simply prove you are married to the wrong person.

 

Here is what I see. She cares about her husband, they don't have any major issues outside of her affair but she just isn't in love with him. She is in love with MM. No matter what she invests in her husband she won't get the same return.

 

I think she wants to want to be in the marriage. I just don't think it's going to work without her getting real honest.

[Overtaxed]

Overtaxed

 

I have been away from LS for a week or so, and have been catching up on a few threads today. I'd like to say that you have made some truly outstanding contributions in the last few days which I have read several times. You bring a great clarity and much wisdom to your posts. Here is another great one right here ...and there was a whole series on another thread which I will be responding to soon - the stuff you wrote about the little word games APs play (non stop exchange of ILY, etc) as "social graces" where the partners allow each other to buy into the lies really made me think about my own behaviour and struck a chord. Thank you for being here.

 

Thank you Jenkins, glad to know my ramblings have resonated with at least one other person. I'm pretty sure that means you might be as crazy as I am though, so... Might want to get that checked out!

 

I suspect I have a somewhat unique perspective on this because of my history. I was "that guy". I really was; I took it to the level of reading books and almost attended a seminar on "game" when I was a young man. I learned it, then I practiced it, then I saw how effective it was. I never chased married women, mostly because I was younger and not too many women were married at that age, but I also didn't care, if they had a ring on, I'd never go "after them" but, I can't say that it would have really stopped me if I thought they were married. I'm sure some were, I have absolutely no doubt of it.

 

The post that circulates around here about the "player" targeting married women, a lot of folks on here think it's fake. I don't. Not for a second. It might be a bit embellished, but, I know there are actually seminars offered on this by some of the men's groups; and I have no doubt in my mind that some people out there really do learn game and then go after married women in a relatively exclusive manner. There's a lot of advantages to it if you're out for sex, the uninhibited nature of it, the "wrong/forbidden", the lack of contact from the MW for long stretches of time and then the hot sex when you do get together. Gives you plenty of time to do other things, could be building a "pipeline" (more women) or actually doing something constructive, but, either way, it's a fantastic way for men to get NSA sex with a trivial investment of time/money and effort. It's basically the fastest way from A-B, and I know, in my heart, that a lot of men will take that path; they have no obligation to the OM, and, if the wife is going to step out, in their eyes, it's better it's done with him than someone else. Sad? Yes. Understandable? To me, yes, it is, if you totally remove "morality" from the discussion, of course.

 

Is every woman in an A being "played"? Of course not. Some, and I really love to see their posts, of the women here are "playing" the OM. Turnabout is fair "play" indeed. But, in almost all A's, someone is getting played. And, I think absolutely universal, in all A's, there's a whole lot lying (or obscuring the truth) that goes on. The exchange is clear having read 1000's of posts now, kind words/attention for sex. One of my biggest reasons to post, at least in the OM/OW forum, is to make that clear; absent other evidence, this is the trade you're making. If you're OK with that, then, although I think you should end your marriage and move on, at least you're getting what you bargained for. The issue comes when I see OW after OW posting here about some OM's crappy actions towards her and she's so shocked, or, an A is discovered, and the OM ghosts and never looks back. The only thing I can think, is "of course", but it's sad, because I think that a ton of OW (including my W) don't realize the "deal" they are making. Or they ascribe meaning to those kind words, which were, in fact, the social grace that makes the A possible. That's where it all flies off the rails for me and I have to type a 20 page post to the OP to try to explain to them how this works. This is what an A is in most cases; don't go in blind. It like going to car dealership to make a new friend and walking out with keys to a new car, a big debt to pay off, and no new friend. Of course not, the sales team isn't there to be your friend, they are there to sell a car! The same applies for many men in A's, they aren't there to love you, to cherish you, or to respect you, they are there to have sex with you and get the charge out of cheating on their wife or sleeping with another man's wife. Become "friends" with the sales team at your own peril; their job is to get the most money for a car using any tactic they can. Just like a man's job is to get the most sex with the least involvement possible. MW just happen to be one of the best places to get that, especially as you get older.

[BigBlueSky]

Why? Why do you need to mourn? Why do you have to force yourself to be in the marriage? Would you want to be with your husband if he had these kinds of issue with getting over someone else? Why not just end your marriage? Why not make a legitimate attempt to have a relationship with MM?

 

No one benefits from having half a wife or mother. What's really the reason?

 

Good questions. I'm not unhappy in my marriage. I love my husband and my kids and want to do what's right. I want them to be happy. And for my exMM, I also want him to have a good relationship with his wife and kids. I haven't acted like it be because of my selfishness, but deep deep down, that is what I truly want for our families. I genuinely think that continuing on with the relationship would ruin so many people. ultimately those are my reasons.

[BigBlueSky]

Op,

are you mourning your mm or are you mourning the feelings you had in the A?

 

I'm asking because these really are two distinct situations.

 

If your are mourning how he made you feel, that's actually good, as those feelings can be found in other ways. If you enjoyed how he listened to you, try opening up to your husband in the same way and asking him to really listen. If you liked the ego boost, find other ways to make yourself feel good about yourself.

 

If you really are mourning "him" and not the A itself, then you may be facing a larger problem.

 

I'm not sure how to distinguish the two. Definitely I miss the way he made me feel. And I also miss him, the person he was. And I think it's ok. I know that I don't need him to be ok, but that it is also something I need to work on.

[BigBlueSky]

Don't kill yourself trying to figure the above (bolded) out. It seems like that will help, that finding that reason will make it all "OK" because you'll have a good explanation for what you did.

 

It won't, and you'll never get that explanation. There's nothing that will make it OK, and there's no explanation that will ever really make sense for most women (for men, sometimes the explanation is simple, she was there, and I was horny, end of "why" discussion). The answer for you (and many others) I suspect is simply shifting boundaries. You let someone get closer and closer until, one day, you wound up in bed with him. It's a story we see here over and over again, but there's no real "why" in that, other than "my boundaries weren't strong enough". The important thing to realize, this WILL happen again. Another man will enter your life and start to press on the boundaries, trying to move closer to you. This is where reflection really can be helpful, because now you'll see it for what it is (he wants to sleep with me; I won't go all hardline here and say that's all he wants, but, it's certainly high on his list of goals) and know how to avoid it.

 

Men and women are different, we really are. The more I read LS, the more I realize how different we are, and, also, how little we understand one another. Men press things, women react to that pressure. That's the typical dance of relationships; you won't find yourself about to have sex with him, or any other man again if you respond appropriately to that pressure. But, just like I tell my WW, this is one of many tests, and you'll face a million more. And every guy that presses will come at it from another angle; the good looking man, the rich man, the sensitive/caring man. All of them, at one point or another, will make some advances to you, and you have to be ready to push them all back. That's the lesson to take from this, not "why", because, the why is obvious. You did this because you wanted to, and because you wanted that other man in your life. The real question, why did you put yourself in a situation where it could happen?

 

In AA, they spend a lot of time talking about that relapse drink. But it's not the drink that they focus on, it's the thought process throughout the day that led you to wind up with a glass of liquor in your hand 8 hours later. You'll never be able to resist the booze in hand, just like you couldn't resist the OM when it was right there in front of you. But you can stop the process, you don't need to "go to the bar", you don't need to imagine the taste of your favorite drink. And if you do, you can replace the happy times with images of the devastation that it caused in your life.

 

The trick isn't to know how to put down the glass of booze, it's to know how to not wind up in the bar in the first place. And the way you do that, at least in my mind, is you stand up very clear boundaries and do NOT let them shift. Men will try to push them, they will, I promise you. It's up to you to be the one to defend your marriage, not them. Their job is to try to get what they can from you with as little investment of time/energy/money as possible. I know, it's a terrible way to think about people, but, it also happens to be true in most cases, so, if you start to frame your relationships with people that way, you'll get a much more "realistic" view on how people interact.

 

OT, thanks for this. I do need to think about boundaries. I've always had very poor boundaries. I only dated my first boyfriend because he was persistent. I didn't like him and rejected him at first but he just kept at it so I relented. Not to say that's what happened in this particular situation but yes, I recognize that I need tons of work in this area.

 

I know everyone thinks that their MM is different, but I really don't think he was in it for sex. I say his because even after so many years, we never had sex. Or came close. We definitely were sexually attracted to one another, but I think we also opened up to each other on an emotional level. But you're right, this might not be the last time someone tries to make advances, and MM might eventually come back. I just need to figure out how to respond. I haven't thought about this yet. Kind of what you were saying about what they teach in AA, I need to think about the devastation it would cause to continue on with him and to have concrete boundaries in place. I will definitely be reading your post through again. I'm not done thinking about it...

[BigBlueSky]

Some good posts on this thread and great to see you still posting Blue.

 

As a former wayward, I will obviously have more sympathy with your position than former betrayeds will tend to have. They understandably will have very little time for "lingering" feelings. But to me, it is quite normal that you will grieve both the MM AND the way he made you feel.

 

I am in no way condoning what you (or I did) and I am not saying it is RIGHT that you miss these things, just that it is normal. You are a human being with thoughts, feelings, memories, dreams and emotions. You have put yourself in a bad position which you now regret. You did this through bad boundaries and selfishness (like me). You are remorseful, have seen the error of your ways and sincerely want to get out of it and put 100% back into the M, where you will hopefully find ways of replacing anything that the A gave. This is all good and I have no doubt that you are completely genuine and have no intentions of restarting this affair again or ever starting another one.

 

However, true as all that is, it still happened. You still have the connection, the memories, the feelings the emotions, thoughts of another possible life.......and you can't simply switch all this off. You have to work through it. Boy, if only we could switch them off just like that! You have these feelings, you don't want them, they are very unwelcome, they unsettle you and make you feel very guilty....but you have them. That's the bottom line.

 

Time and therapy and 100% unwavering dedication and commitment to recovery will sort that out. I do not believe that, just because someone has lingering feelings for an exAP, that it automatically means that they are in false R. Sure, there are other people who genuinely are in false R. They make all the right noises, go to the meetings, say and even do the right things, but are secretly planning to re-start things "once the dust settles". This was NOT me...and I am sure it is NOT you either. Even though I had lingering feelings for the OW, I never considered my W as plan B. I know in my mind that I was not in false R and no one will convince me otherwise of this - it was just a stage to get through.

 

You want to get to a positon of genuine mental peace and put the A behind you, but it will take a few months for those feelings to completely die away. It's horrible for you, and it's so completely unfair and ultra-horrible to your H, but unfortunately this is just another "gift" that often comes from an affair - they truly suck in ever way and have no winners. There are many other posters who have gone or are going through this stage and are doing very well in R - I can think of me, MidngihtBlue, deadsoul and SouthernSun for starters.

 

Whilst I don't disagree with what DKT3 and others have said, I encourage you not to lose hope for your M if you still have feelings for the MM. Keep doing the right things and stay dedicated and committed. You will get there.

 

Keep going Blue - we are here!

 

Thanks for this, Jenkins. I was questioning myself a bit, and asking if it was really possible for me to want to stay in my marriage while still having lingering feelings for my exAP. I do want to get to the place where I don't miss him anymore but I think I'm starting to allow myself to have time to go through missing him and letting him go. I don't think there is an easy way around it. I have good moments (like right now) where it's easier for me to put things into perspective and to be more focused on my family's and then other moments that I feel really sad. And I think this will be my reality for the next little while.

 

Anyway, thanks for the affirmation that it's normal to go through this, as wrong and horrible it might be towards my husband. I truly was questioning myself last week.

[deadsoul]

Thanks for this, Jenkins. I was questioning myself a bit, and asking if it was really possible for me to want to stay in my marriage while still having lingering feelings for my exAP. I do want to get to the place where I don't miss him anymore but I think I'm starting to allow myself to have time to go through missing him and letting him go. I don't think there is an easy way around it. I have good moments (like right now) where it's easier for me to put things into perspective and to be more focused on my family's and then other moments that I feel really sad. And I think this will be my reality for the next little while.

 

Anyway, thanks for the affirmation that it's normal to go through this, as wrong and horrible it might be towards my husband. I truly was questioning myself last week.

 

Yes. Very normal. It was very hard for me to come to terms with the fact that I had/have these feelings. But they can't be flipped off like a switch. They can, however, be looked at in a more logical manner.

 

Google Noah Elkrief. He has some great videos about how your thinking causes your emotions and how to deal with those thoughts. I've watched them a number of times and it's helping me a ton. I'm reading his book right now and so far it's about living in the now and finding happiness in the moment. I spend a lot of time feeling so depressed about the past and anxious about the future that I forget the peace of living right now, in this moment.

 

Anyway, it's something that has helped a lot. It is really hard for BS's to understand that we still harbor feelings for our AP. I truly get that. But it's not wrong to have those feelings. It is wrong to act on them. I've learned the hard way that telling myself to "get over it" and "stop thinking about it" doesn't work. Now I look at why I'm feeling these emotions and go figure, they come from faulty thoughts and assumptions. When I can logically look at those thoughts, it makes the emotions easier to handle.

[DKT3]

Yes. Very normal. It was very hard for me to come to terms with the fact that I had/have these feelings. But they can't be flipped off like a switch. They can, however, be looked at in a more logical manner.

 

Google Noah Elkrief. He has some great videos about how your thinking causes your emotions and how to deal with those thoughts. I've watched them a number of times and it's helping me a ton. I'm reading his book right now and so far it's about living in the now and finding happiness in the moment. I spend a lot of time feeling so depressed about the past and anxious about the future that I forget the peace of living right now, in this moment.

 

Anyway, it's something that has helped a lot. It is really hard for BS's to understand that we still harbor feelings for our AP. I truly get that. But it's not wrong to have those feelings. It is wrong to act on them. I've learned the hard way that telling myself to "get over it" and "stop thinking about it" doesn't work. Now I look at why I'm feeling these emotions and go figure, they come from faulty thoughts and assumptions. When I can logically look at those thoughts, it makes the emotions easier to handle.

Really? Boundaries would have kept it to a passing crush, that is normal...having or expecting your betrayed spouse to accept you "getting over" a relationship you should have never been In isn't something you should expect them to understand.

 

Oddly it's the WS who expects the BS to get over it, to not act out In anger.