Young, lost and probably very foolish - is this over?

[Eight]

You are doing well on the NC! Give it more time.

 

A month is so early; it takes a lot of time to have more good days than not so good days...but never fear; they will come.

 

Don't let yourself dwell in those "does he miss me" "will he call" "will he always love me". I'm not saying try to block those feelings/thoughts; but feel them then move on to new thoughts of YOU and YOUR life.

 

NC is for your healing. NC is for life. You are your focus now.

 

A month is really great and you should feel good about your resolve. Hang in there. Those of us who have been through it know that it works and you are well on your way!

[elaine567]

I've noticed that it's getting harder. I did expect him to contact me, and he hasn't.

 

It gets harder as in reality you were just "sulking" and hoping he would then come to you, tell you to stop being stupid and all would be well again.

BUT what you failed to notice is that as soon as his baby was born, he basically went NC on you.

YOU went into chase mode but he wasn't having it, so you then tried a new tactic, you would go NC to force his hand, but it hasn't worked as he had made the decision it was over, well BEFORE you started playing your NC game. His trip to the UK probably opened his eyes too.

 

Some men with pregnant partner's feel lonely and isolated, they miss the sex, they miss the company, they hate not being the centre of her attention.

Along comes another woman who fills the void and they stray, but once the baby is born it all becomes very real and if they have any conscience at all. they start feeling guilty and they no longer want to fool around, they have responsibilities and a new baby to look after.

 

YOU on the other hand saw this man as your way out of an unhappy situation, no doubt your Belgian man is well aware of that too, and that is probably another reason why he is staying away.

 

YOU need to stop "hoping", and wondering how he feels, as that is doing you no good whatsoever.

He is sorting out his own life and family, so you need to start sorting out your own life without him in it.

He is NOT going to "save" you.

Looked at objectively, you are miles apart, it was never really going to work, was it?

Time to take stock, stop writing the fairy tale and start getting a grip on reality.

Grieve, heal and move on.

[Imajerk17]

Just a little update. I've done just over a month of no contact. You'll be pleased that I haven't tried to go to Belgium either - I took your advice.

 

I've noticed that it's getting harder. I did expect him to contact me, and he hasn't. That hurts so badly, even though I told him I would never answer him or talk to him again. He is very stubborn and strong of mind so in a way it doesn't surprise me. Although I thought he might cave when drinking.

 

Is it just me going through this agonising pain? Is it possible he still hurts too? Misses me? Does the fact that he hasn't reached out in over a month mean that he never will again? Do people still go on caring about someone for weeks? Months? I still wish (wrongly) with every fibre of my being that he will call me and tell me he still loves me. Yes, I know that's wrong, but I just need to air my dark thoughts.

 

I've had some great work news during the month, yet I can't seem to be happy about anything. I feel 'stuck' in life...

 

I am glad to hear that you have not gone to Belgium OP.

 

Meanwhile, you and your husband do really do need to have a frank discussion about the real state of your marriage. I'd push for you to confess the affair outright, but even if you cannot do that, you both deserve for your H to know that something is lacking for you and you are really hurting for it.

 

This is just a general comment, but I do notice from this thread you have a very strong desire to be approved of and needed, that you crave to fix someone. (I think a lot of women have this drive but you seem to have it more than most.) Maybe that is why you "affaired down"?

Edited July 21, 2017 by Imajerk17

[lostintheuk]

No sooner did I post my last post about feeling desperate after a month of NC did I re-charge my phone to find two missed calls and a long text message.

 

The text message read: 'My biggest wish at the moment is turning back the time until the last day I was with you. I was disrespectful to you and I am really sorry for that. My love for you was, and still is the truth. Please answer my message or contact me again, I really miss you and I still love you'.

 

I called him back. I know. WRONG THING TO DO. I messed up. But I had to hear what he had to say.

 

It turns out he has been thinking of me everyday, told me he wants to see me again, wants to marry me (he has never been married before by the way), wants to wake up every morning to me and wants us to start a life together. He wants me to move to Belgium. He said he was desperately hurt after I tried to break it off when he visited the UK but that he was too proud to admit it. And that he was terrified I wouldn't leave my marriage, can't stand the thought of sharing me and hated having to say goodbye to me each time we met. He also said that he thought I would eventually contact him but that I didn't and he knew he had to reveal his feelings or lose me forever.

 

I was shocked because all these weeks I have been wondering if he felt in as much pain as me but convinced myself he never cared. He said he'd thought it was for the best when I gave him the ultimatum but realised that as time passed his love never diminished, and that it must mean a lot considering his love was so strong still, despite the distance between us.

 

We've spoken another few times since this call 10 days ago. The conversations are positive and in each conversation he tells me he loves me and often how I am 'the one' and how much he wants to be with me. He also said he can't leave the country until his children are older but that if we were together, we could move back to the UK eventually. He said he is trying to do the right thing by his children but that there is no way he can be with his girlfriend for the rest of his life and that nothing has improved.

 

I notice he doesn't seem to want to talk everyday (in the first 6 weeks we spoke multiple times a day). Also sometimes he reads my messages and doesn't reply but will call the next day. I don't know whether I should be worried about this or whether he is trying to create a less 'intense' situation and is perhaps protecting himself. He said before that it become completely consuming and too stressful to deal with.

 

Tomorrow he is going to call to let me know whether he has time off work next weekend. If he does, we are going to meet in France and talk. I guess if he says he can't get the time off work, I will have to go back to NC unless he suggests another time to meet. I'm trying to prepare myself for the worst (that he's changed his mind about us meeting). I'm trying to guard my heart and understand that these things rarely work out.

 

What do you think are Belgian's man's intentions? Am I a complete fool to think that this could work? When he talks to me I get the impression that he is very keen to be with me yet the time in between the calls is full of doubt and worry...

 

((Regarding my husband, I've been trying to talk to him about our intimacy problems but things aren't really progressing in any shape or form. I've cried to him about it many times and have said I feel neglected in the bedroom. I've suggested a therapist and he seems receptive to this but in all honesty, I'm not sure it's going to work out because we are just so mismatched in this area))

[somanymistakes]

I'm not sure I know how to judge anyone's intentions anymore.

 

I don't get the same warning signs from this story that I get from a lot of the others, but there are a few points I'm concerned about. He was so very passionate with you, and then switched so completely to silence. From the way you tell the story, he gives the impression of being overwhelmed by a lot of things in his life. Like he gets bowled over by events and swept along... but not so good at making long-term plans for his life, or his career, or his family. Not so good at taking charge of his life and really following through with it beyond what he wants in the moment.

 

Because of that, I worry about his ability to offer a stable relationship and not be swayed by emotional pressures. Will he bend to his girlfriend's will if she reminds him of his responsibilities to his children? Will he stay by your side under stress?

 

He might meet you in France, he's good at dramatic gestures in the short-term. But can he stick to a longer-term plan that is difficult and not immediately rewarding?

 

The other thing is that I'm not sure how well you know him outside of the whirlwind romance. You've met his brother, iirc. What about his friends? Of course you might not have met them all yet, I'm just wondering how much of a picture of his overall life you have, the kind of person he is and the things he does with his time.

 

Obviously I don't know him and could be totally misreading this, I'm just playing crystal ball based on your story. (And that's setting aside the issue of your own marriage.)

[Imajerk17]

You are right now in a full-blown affair OP, complete with making plans to meet up w your lover--and make no mistake, sex WILL occur.

 

Who knows what his intentions are. I don't doubt he is completely infatuated w you as you are so far out of his league. The heart wants what it wants, but good luck starting a life w a family w 3 small kids that hate you, and w you the primary breadwinner. This won't end well for you long-term.

 

You have already exited your marriage physically and emotionally. So I think you need to tell your husband in stronger terms that this just is not working.

Edited August 6, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
rude ~T

[MJJean]

So, since he loves you, wants to marry you, and knows he couldn't spend his life with the mother of his children, he's officially ended their relationship?

 

And, since you live him and want to spend your life with him, you've told your husband you want a divorce?

 

If the answer to either question is no, then you're just in an on again off again garden variety affair and enjoying some future faking.

[jenkins95]

(((lostinuk)))

 

I can feel the excitement, anticipation and joy pouring out of your post. The heart wants what the heart wants and our desires and hormones make very little place for logical thinking.

 

But please, please, please, from someone whose been there (as the MM), I advise you to tread very carefully. You could be setting yourself up for years of heartbreak and disappointment. However much your heart yearns for him, make sure you keep your eyes open and engage your intelligence and common sense at all times.

 

we are going to meet in France and talk.

 

Regarding the above quote, my OW and I met up to 'talk' when things were getting heavy. We thought we were being very mature and considerate. Needless to say, we lasted about 30 seconds before all our clothes were on the floor..... And they didn't go back on for about two days when she had to rush out to catch her train back to BF. Needless to say, very little 'talking' took place (except pillow talk).... And I think you know as well as all of us readers that your planned encounter will go a very similar way... Guaranteed. And then you will be in a full blown affair.

 

I'm not saying that it can't work, and I'm quite sure that you both love each other on that crazy new-love level, but how well do you really know him?

 

If it's got any chance of working, you have to sort things out with your husband before you physically meet OM again.......and he has to sort things out with his GF and make arrangements with his children as show you evidence of this, otherwise you are both just cheating and hurting them more than you can imagine. I am not being self-righteous here. I made these mistakes myself and I'm trying to warn you against doing the same by totally just going with your heart. Unlike me, you are here seeking advice.... Kudos to you for that lost.

 

Also, don't underestimate the pull of sex for a man. He hasn't seen you for weeks and he had great sex with you. He wants you so much right now as knows the sex will be amazing. As a man myself, I can almost feel his desire.... I've been there. I know sex has a pull for women too, but I think it's generally more for men - our evolution had hard-wired is to seek it as modify or behaviour to get it. Some of his words may be due to the lure of sex.... Maybe even without him realising it. I know myself that when I hadn't seen OW for a while the "I love yous" and "you're the most amazing woman in the world" comments would flow like water from a tap....I didn't even realise that sexual desire was a driver for much of this. Later, when I was "satisfied" and reflective, I often recognised this and realised that I'd been a bit overly-heavy with what I was saying..... Much of it was genuinely from the heart, but a good proportion was also because I was like a dog on heat.

 

Please tread carefully, think of your H and those foreign children and the GF, as well as your own sanity. What you say about your H gives the impression that you've already given up and are just looking for validation to go out and pursue Mr Moules-Frites. But this isn't fair on your H - he doesn't even know that he's in a competition and that the odds are already stacked hugely against him.

 

Maybe it will work... It does happen sometimes, but as things stand right now, this seems like just one possiblity of many, and perhaps not the most likely one. For that to have the best chance of happening, you really need to engage all your intelligence and common sense and try to ignore your hormones. Don't rush in, get a plan together. Please don't arrive at that hotel before sorting things out and please don't meat him without a rigid plan to stick to... As soon as you both see each other and the hormonal rush kicks in, you will be irresistible to each other - I've been there and all plans of being sensible will go out of the window.

 

I don't mean to patronise or lecture you, but I've personally suffered and caused so much pain to so many people as an MM in a very similar situation to your MM and I so want to protect you from potentially ruining your life.... And hurting many others.

 

(((Big hugs))). Do this right and you will be okay wth or without the muscles from Brussels...... and never forget that it's not just about you and the OM - there are others to consider FIRST.

 

We're here for you. Keep posting.

Edited July 31, 2017 by jenkins95

[lostintheuk]

Well, it ended HORRENDOUSLY.

 

I went to Belgium on Thursday. I was starting to feel guilty about the whole thing before I left, but was still so excited to see him.

 

When I met him at the station, he was shaking he was so excited and pleased to see me. It was just like the previous times, we couldn't stop kissing and staring lovingly at each other. We spent the day together, had a wonderful time and ended the evening in bed. There were I love yous, you're wonderful, beautiful etc etc.

 

The next day was also lovely, but I started to sense a tension in the air. I asked him about it, and he said he couldn't leave his children, that they were so young (0,3,5) and was I able to wait for him? He didn't want to lose me. I said I didn't know, but that we could carry on in the situation we were in but that he had to open up a bit more. He said he could try to do that and said he would try to treat me like a girlfriend and not hold his heart back so much. He said he had difficultly giving his all to me because he didn't know the outcome of the situation, how it would ever work. He was affectionate in the day and said he never wanted to hurt me and he had hated hurting me in Oxford, that I was a lovely and beautiful girl and didn't deserve that.

 

That evening (sorry to be graphic) I pulled out all the stops in the bedroom and he said again 'how on earth did an ugly guy like me get you? What do you see in me? I don't understand. I am just a coach driver'. Then we went to a bar, and I was approached by several other men and he said 'I know you could go home with any of these men, I realise that' and I said 'it's only you I want'. We had a lovely time again.

 

By the Saturday morning, I sensed another change. He was in a sort of turmoil. He spoke very negatively about how he was stuck in a relationship with a woman who had no interests, no hobbies, no friends, a bad relationship with her family, was always depressed, was lazy in bed, relied on him too heavily, hated his job and wants him to work in a factory, was always moaning at him etc etc. He said all the love had gone and that he avoided going home when the children were already in bed.

 

I was trying to smooth things over, be light and sweet and not pick up on the tension but eventually I couldn't stand it. He was being cold and I was starting to feel ill from stress. I just lost it and said 'I know you miss your children, but please stop taking it out on me'. He pulled over and we had a long, terrible conversation. He said the feelings of guilt had returned and that he felt awful he took days off work and didn't ever spend them with his children (exactly as it has been for his UK visit in May). He said he felt guilty that he was having fun with me when they were at home missing him. He said he just couldn't leave them because his girlfriend never does anything fun with them, and he worried about their futures without him. He said he had come from such a miserable home situation where his dad was always drinking, his mum was in a mental hospital and he was alone. He said he couldn't do that to his children and he would miss coming home to their faces greeting him. He said he wished he could get away from the girlfriend but that he was weak and wanted the children with him at home. He said he didn't want to mess up their lives.

 

I asked him why he had contacted me again after the five weeks if he knew this, and he said 'because I love you and want to be with you and thought of you every single day' but that he hoped the feelings of guilt about the children would have gone away. He said if we were together with the children, taking them to do nice things, he wouldn't feel that way. But that would mean moving out of the family home and not being able to see them as much.

 

The conversation got deep. I told him that I had patiently taken ALL of the baggage and problems he had thrown at me (the list is endless). I reiterated that I loved him enough to consider moving to a country where I didn't speak the language, would have to give up a lot of my lecturing career, take on three small children, deal with a ex gf who would HATE me. He said he knew I really truly loved him and knew how lucky he was but that he knew he couldn't leave them. He asked me to wait FIVE years for him. Keep in contact via phone every week until he felt he could do it. But that we couldn't keep seeing each other until he felt he could leave because it was just hurting us. I said no, that I would not put my life on complete hold and sacrifice my baby-making years waiting for a man who might not even make the move from the home at the end of it. I also said that meeting him physically was important to me, and that talking on the phone would be difficult if I could never see him physically. I said I had given all I possibly could: all my love, all my patience, all my trust.

 

When I said I couldn't wait for him he got angry. He says he never feels hurt, but I think this anger was hurt. He told me he wanted me to go home early, and that he would drop me at the Eurostar. I was crying and exhausted. I said 'please, don't do that. I can't make the 5 hour journey home in this state, that I felt tired and drained, and that I wasn't even sure if there was a train home to my city from London and that I might be stranded there'. I said 'I have never asked anything of you but I am asking you now, please can we just go to a hotel, calm down, watch a film and leave first thing in the morning'. He said no, and that NO ONE told him what to do and that when his mind was made up he would NEVER change it. I asked him again, 'as a human being, please support me and realise I can't make this journey at this point'. I was starting to feel really ill. He said to me that he couldn't understand how a 28 year old, self-employed woman could be so weak and let this hurt her (!!!). He said 'why are you allowing this to hurt you? I never allow myself to be hurt'. I said 'I am a human. I feel pain and everyone gets vulnerable, that I was hurt and not perfect'. He said I needed to 'act decent and calm myself down and control myself'. I looked in his eyes at that point and I just thought 'This man is capable of being very very cruel. I am in my hour of need and he is not caring about my feelings'. I knew at that moment I could NEVER see this man again. He was messed up.

 

I said 'take me to the Eurostar' and I didn't utter a single word more in the car. About half an hour into the drive he said 'please say something? Why are you crying? It's not over between us so I don't understand why you are crying'.

 

Once we arrived he took me in and paid 100 euros for a new ticket. I was nearly fainting because I hadn't eaten and was so stressed. He kept saying 'I'm worried about you, let's sit down for 2 hours and THEN I will go'. I just said I had to go as soon as possible. He walked me to the Eurostar and I said 'bye' and he said 'what? don't you want a kiss?' and I said 'why would I want that?' and he repeated 'it's not over' and I said 'yes, it's over' and then I saw a twinge of pain (the closest thing I think he is capable of expressing) and I said 'enjoy your life with your girlfriend'. And I walked away.

 

Honestly, this man is the most troubled man I have ever encountered. I naively thought that by loving and accepting him, I could help him. But this man needs a LOT of help from a professional, which he will never seek because he views that kind of thing as 'weak'. This is man who nearly ran over a man in his coach for giving him a parking ticket and is still waiting to hear whether he's going to lose his job over it (the job he loved). This is a man who drink drives regularly (again, stupid considering his job as a coach driver and how quickly he would lose this), drinks too much in general, has a terrible temper, thinks EVERYONE is out to hurt him, is tight with his money and is rude. This is a man who said if someone does ONE thing wrong, he will never forgive them. This is a man who said he NEVER lets someone tell him what to do and that he will just do what he wants, even if that hurts someone else. He also said he would never make me a hot drink in the morning because I could do it myself and that I would start to expect it if he started doing that.

 

Despite all those things, I STUPIDLY loved him. We opened each other's eyes to new things, new experiences. He said to me he loved how passionate I was about my job, that he would love to build a life with me, he had had the best sexual experiences he'd ever had, that he wanted to have a home with me, and build fires and cook together. He said he wanted to marry me and would say things like 'when you're my wife...'. He wanted to travel and explore with me.

 

How could he not see what he was doing by forcing me home early was unkind? He said he was being kind because he was looking after me and seeing that I got home safely. How did he not realise that it's over if you treat someone in that way? How can he not realise that it's too much to ask someone to wait for him to leave?

 

I know where this man's life is going. He will remain in this situation, he will likely lose the job he loves so much to alcohol or aggression, he will return to work in the factory he hated, stay with this woman who will probably just keep having more and more children, it will be more difficult to leave, he will rely more and more on drink, he will carry on isolating people (he has no friends apart from his brother), distrusting everyone and telling himself he can't feel hurt, pushing all his emotions down. Their situation is going to hurt their kids either way, because it's completely dysfunctional.

 

I have deleted everything to do with this man. It is incredibly painful and heartbreaking and I wish more than anything that it didn't work out in this way. But I realise how lucky I am to have a loving, supporting family, lots of kind and caring friends, a career I love and freedom to travel and live my life.

 

You might be wondering about my husband. I'm not sure what I'm going to do but I am going to suggest counselling. I'm not sure whether to come clean but ultimately that is a decision I have to come to alone.

 

It will take many months but one day I hope I can look back on this memory with indifference and not pain. I (naively) hope one day he regrets treating me like this and losing me. I know everyone thinks like that at the end, but I suppose it would be a small consolation in a very miserable situation.

 

Thank you for reading this if you got this far, and thank you for all your advice and kindness.

Edited August 6, 2017 by lostintheuk

[Tamari]

Lost... let's say: you got your closure. Not, I dare say, as you would have liked to imagine it but there you go: life/god/the universe works in mysterious ways sometimes. Let it be a relief to you to know that at least it has ended, you were spared! Not like the, indeed to be pitied, girlfriend of this dysfunctional man. And not like his children... No: YOU are free. And you have been given some very valuable life lessons which I hope you do learn from, both to save yourself more pain in the future and those with whom you have close contact with.

 

I wish you all the best.

Edited August 6, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
response to deleted post ~T

[elaine567]

... he came from a very difficult background (brother in jail, alcoholic parents, mother in and out a mental hospital) and he said he had never met anyone like me before.

 

When you found that out that was when to walk away, but your ego got in the way. YOU were determined to replace his overweight, earth mother of a wife, the one that was treating him so bad... YOU would be the better wife and the better mother too...

YOU would sort out all his troubles...

YOUR ego got the better of you, like it does for so many OWs, but when the chips were down he basically used you here as a booty call and then went slinking back to his wife and kids. He wanted to make you into some sort of a long distance FWB who would show up for a few days and then disappear on cue when he got fed up, or had to be somewhere else, or when he was in danger of being found out by his wife.

YOU were prepared to give up everything, he definitely didn't want that...

 

. He was very very shy when he met me, so much so that he couldn't introduce himself to me.

I am afraid many players know that trick.

I guess as a coach driver he may be an expert at picking up foreign women and knows exactly what to say to keep them hooked.

 

Pick yourself up, you at least now know it was never going to work.

YOU now know your husband is just not enough, so time to figure out what you are going to do with the rest of your life.

YOU are young, you have no kids and essentially no baggage, the world is your oyster...

[zanwalk]

Lost, well done for removing all contact with this manipulative man, sorry that you had to learn your lesson in such a fashion, but think of how much worse it could have been if you had given up your job and moved over there, and then found out what a heartless person he was.

 

Thanks for sharing the final instalment of this sorry tale, and I hope you find peace and happiness with someone who can properly love you eventually.

[BreakingWave]

((lostintheuk))

 

I am so sorry that your trip started off beautifully and ended so badly. It sounds as if your brain and heart *finally* got into alignment and you were able to see this man for who he is - the flaws as well as the virtues, and made a smart decision about what you do and do not wish for your own future. I am hopeful that as the days ahead are both good and bad, you will make it through the bad times by re-reading your own post here and reminding yourself exactly why you chose to walk away from him. I can tell you value yourself enough to survive this heartbreak.

[Origin]

Hi Lost,

 

You are in Limerence with this man and there is a possibility that you will once again lower your guard, see him, have a great time and then realize there is a real world outside of the fantasy you both are trying to live in. I hope this time around you can stick to NC because you will keep getting hurt more and more if you keep letting him come back into your life.

 

Much luck to you, take care of yourself and remember...actions speak louder then words.

[jenkins95]

(((lostintheuk)))

 

Sorry you've been through such an awful time. If you'd read any of the replies to your update last week, before you went to Belgium, you will see that many of us predicted this. I do understand - you were so excited at the prospect of seeing him that you HAD to go to see him. The opinions of a few strangers on the Internet were powerless to stop that.

 

Hopefully now at least you have seen the situation for what it is and seen some of his (considerable) issues and got some kind of closure. Please never contact him again - it will only lead to pain. He will likely come back - resist with all your might.

 

I'm glad that you are thinking about counselling with your H. It is quite clear that, as things stand, he is plan B. But this may be largely to do with the mess that your head is in and does not necessarily have to be the end. Do the hard work and soul searching now. Try to save your marriage but don't stay if, after months of hard work, you know you cannot love or respect your H anymore. I genuinely hope it works out.

 

Good luck lostintheuk and keep posting. We are here.

 

A few further thoughts of some of your specific points below: -

 

 

...he said he couldn't leave his children, that they were so young (0,3,5) and was I able to wait for him?

 

We see this kind of thing very often and it is a big red flag. After all, is it going to be easier to leave them in 5 years, when they are 5, 8 and 10 or in 10 years, when they are 10, 13 and 15, etc? The fact is, there is NO good time to walk out on your family. If he is going to do it, he should make arrangements to do it immediately and not just (without their knowledge) grant them a "stay of execution". This is conflict avoidant and cowardly...and the longer he left it, the more difficult it would become. In many ways, it is easier to leave when they are very young because they get used to the arrangement before they truly understand what is going on and have got used to a life with Mum and Dad together.

 

He asked me to wait FIVE years for him. Keep in contact via phone every week until he felt he could do it. But that we couldn't keep seeing each other until he felt he could leave because it was just hurting us. I said no, that I would not put my life on complete hold and sacrifice my baby-making years waiting for a man who might not even make the move from the home at the end of it.

 

Best decision you have made in your life lost. Proud of you. Well done! Take an hour to read some of the many heartbreaking stories of OW who have put their lives on hold for MM who have promised to leave in X years only to keep continually moving the goalposts. You have saved yourself years and years of frustration, disappointment and heartbreak.

 

We spent the day together, had a wonderful time and ended the evening in bed. There were I love yous, you're wonderful, beautiful etc etc.

 

...That evening (sorry to be graphic) I pulled out all the stops in the bedroom

 

...By the Saturday morning, I sensed another change.

 

Yeah, I hate to say I told you so, but please see my post of last week before you went out. The pull of sex does very powerful things to a man. He took care of his number one urgent need...and then reality kicked in again. Very predictable I'm afraid.

Edited August 7, 2017 by jenkins95

[lostintheuk]

Elaine567 - I appreciate your reply and agree that yes, my ego did get in the way. I was determined to replace the girlfriend (not wife, although it doesn't really make a difference anyway).

 

I do however, believe you're wrong about him getting fed up and using me as a booty call. It's more complex than that. It is about his guilt, and his relationship with his parents and his determination to not make the same mistakes as his parents did. I believe he is very torn and very, very damaged. I forgot to add that both he and his brother have tremors in their hands and I'm sure this is to do with how badly they were neglected as children. He is (understandably) obsessed with his father leaving him as a child to go to bars, and his father has now moved country to Bulgaria so he can live cheaply and still afford to drink (a crate of beer a day - he says he will probably die soon and he's only in his 50s). He feels he is leaving him all over again by moving to Bulgaria. He said he never wanted his children to feel that way.

 

I know you believe he is a player. I believe with every fibre of my being he is not. Maybe he will be after this, but I knew this man enough to know that this was not something that had happened before. I believe he did love me, but knew it could never in reality work.

 

 

 

Origin - Thank you so much for your reply. Yes, I am in *slight* danger of letting him back, but I feel so depressed and negatively about it, I don't think there's ANYTHING that he could say now to make me go back. It would just be the same old cycle. I've been too hurt and too disappointed. Even if this man was single, living in the UK and child-free, I think he is too damaged to take on. It would be a road of misery, hurt and loneliness.

 

That is why this feels so painful. Because I KNOW now it's gone too far, and there is not a shred of hope left. Before, I had the hope that he would 'realise his mistake', which he sort of did but then it just all happened again in the exact same way. It is very, very sad because I have never encountered someone so angry at the world, so self-destructive, and so neglected and sad. And I really did hope that by loving him and supporting him I could help. He hasn't contacted me and I believe he won't because he likely realises too that nothing can come of this but pain.

 

 

 

Jenkins95 - Thank you again for your continued support and insightful comments. Yes, I will try to resist ever contacting again. As I said above to Origin, it seems so pointless and there's nothing to say. How could there ever be a happy ending? The situation can't possibly turn out the way I would like it to, so I don't feel an urge to try anymore.

 

I pointed out to him that it would be difficult to leave in 5 years, or 10 years. He said it felt worse leaving them at a really helpless age. I wonder what will happen when they are all in school, because the girlfriend seems to have little else going on in her life and perhaps it will all break apart then. Either way, I will be long gone by that stage.

 

You're right that he is cowardly and conflict avoidant. He is also very, very fearful of change. He refuses to fly in a plane (why risk it he says), he refused to change to a smart phone (he was happy with his old phone for years), he refuses to try a new restaurant his brother suggested (why, when he knows one he likes already), new food or drink, or ways of doing things. He is the same with his heart (why risk giving it to someone when there is no 'solution' to be together). He keeps a very tight control of his life and I suspect this is how he feels safe.

 

Also I agree about the pull of sex. This has been a big draw for us both. He does have sex at home, whereas I don't have much. He fulfilled this side of my life that is missing. That is why when he suggested we just keep in contact by phone calls, I didn't see the point. I'm not even sure why he would want that. But I suspect as he has so few caring people in his life (he said really it's only his brother who he has to talk to) that he is drawn to my stability. He always calls me to tell me his problems and I always listen intently. But phone calls would provide pain for me, and frustration.

 

With regards to my husband, yes, he has been plan B. But I do think that my mind has not been thinking logically. I will try hard to appreciate all his wonderful qualities and realise how lucky I am to have someone who is kind and caring.

 

 

 

 

I know that the days ahead are going to be so up and down. The stress of the last four months has affected me physically - I was sick last night and this morning. It is so hard loving someone you know is absolutely TOXIC and can't be helped. Let alone when that person has children, is living with another woman in another country. The heart is a very powerful thing and I can't believe how much it can overpower logical thought and reason. I really do hope that I can come back and post how I've successfully moved on...

[DKT3]

Follow this guys actions and they say you were and are just sex. No matter how you convince yourself otherwise. We all understand it's a bitter pill because you basically threw it all away for him. So no of course you want a deeper meaning. BTW heavy drinkers have the shakes I highly doubt it has anything to do with his childhood.

 

I really feel bad for your husband, you say you were not thinking logically. Illogical would have been dumping your husband and moving there. You were very caculated in your actions. Testing the waters while Keeping your husband on the hook.

 

I have two questions....1) what would you have done if he said I've left her come here with me? You would have left your husband really right? 2) if your not going to be honest, what do you think you will get out of MC? I can tell you from experience all you will gain is a bill.

Edited August 7, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
rude ~T

[jenkins95]

Elaine567 - I appreciate your reply and agree that yes, my ego did get in the way. I was determined to replace the girlfriend (not wife, although it doesn't really make a difference anyway).

 

I do however, believe you're wrong about him getting fed up and using me as a booty call. It's more complex than that. It is about his guilt, and his relationship with his parents and his determination to not make the same mistakes as his parents did. I believe he is very torn and very, very damaged. I forgot to add that both he and his brother have tremors in their hands and I'm sure this is to do with how badly they were neglected as children. He is (understandably) obsessed with his father leaving him as a child to go to bars, and his father has now moved country to Bulgaria so he can live cheaply and still afford to drink (a crate of beer a day - he says he will probably die soon and he's only in his 50s). He feels he is leaving him all over again by moving to Bulgaria. He said he never wanted his children to feel that way.

 

I know you believe he is a player. I believe with every fibre of my being he is not. Maybe he will be after this, but I knew this man enough to know that this was not something that had happened before. I believe he did love me, but knew it could never in reality work.

 

 

 

Origin - Thank you so much for your reply. Yes, I am in *slight* danger of letting him back, but I feel so depressed and negatively about it, I don't think there's ANYTHING that he could say now to make me go back. It would just be the same old cycle. I've been too hurt and too disappointed. Even if this man was single, living in the UK and child-free, I think he is too damaged to take on. It would be a road of misery, hurt and loneliness.

 

That is why this feels so painful. Because I KNOW now it's gone too far, and there is not a shred of hope left. Before, I had the hope that he would 'realise his mistake', which he sort of did but then it just all happened again in the exact same way. It is very, very sad because I have never encountered someone so angry at the world, so self-destructive, and so neglected and sad. And I really did hope that by loving him and supporting him I could help. He hasn't contacted me and I believe he won't because he likely realises too that nothing can come of this but pain.

 

 

 

Jenkins95 - Thank you again for your continued support and insightful comments. Yes, I will try to resist ever contacting again. As I said above to Origin, it seems so pointless and there's nothing to say. How could there ever be a happy ending? The situation can't possibly turn out the way I would like it to, so I don't feel an urge to try anymore.

 

I pointed out to him that it would be difficult to leave in 5 years, or 10 years. He said it felt worse leaving them at a really helpless age. I wonder what will happen when they are all in school, because the girlfriend seems to have little else going on in her life and perhaps it will all break apart then. Either way, I will be long gone by that stage.

 

You're right that he is cowardly and conflict avoidant. He is also very, very fearful of change. He refuses to fly in a plane (why risk it he says), he refused to change to a smart phone (he was happy with his old phone for years), he refuses to try a new restaurant his brother suggested (why, when he knows one he likes already), new food or drink, or ways of doing things. He is the same with his heart (why risk giving it to someone when there is no 'solution' to be together). He keeps a very tight control of his life and I suspect this is how he feels safe.

 

Also I agree about the pull of sex. This has been a big draw for us both. He does have sex at home, whereas I don't have much. He fulfilled this side of my life that is missing. That is why when he suggested we just keep in contact by phone calls, I didn't see the point. I'm not even sure why he would want that. But I suspect as he has so few caring people in his life (he said really it's only his brother who he has to talk to) that he is drawn to my stability. He always calls me to tell me his problems and I always listen intently. But phone calls would provide pain for me, and frustration.

 

With regards to my husband, yes, he has been plan B. But I do think that my mind has not been thinking logically. I will try hard to appreciate all his wonderful qualities and realise how lucky I am to have someone who is kind and caring.

 

 

 

 

I know that the days ahead are going to be so up and down. The stress of the last four months has affected me physically - I was sick last night and this morning. It is so hard loving someone you know is absolutely TOXIC and can't be helped. Let alone when that person has children, is living with another woman in another country. The heart is a very powerful thing and I can't believe how much it can overpower logical thought and reason. I really do hope that I can come back and post how I've successfully moved on...

 

Kudos to you for coming and telling us all this lostintheuk - you deserve lots of (((hugs))). You must be feeling very mixed up at the moment. You are brave to come here and are showing early signs of taking ownership of your decisions. It would have been easy to walk away and avoid the "wrath" of us LSers! I'm very impressed that you've come back. That says a lot of positive things about you to me. Proud of you.

 

I truly hope you can find happinness in your marriage. I think most waywards in an affair would have to admit that their spouse becomes at one time or another the plan B. When I was deep in my A, the OW could do or say no wrong in my eyes and it was the total opposite for my W - everything she said and did annoyed me and made me resent her. My only saving grace was that on a logical level, I knew this was my mind playing tricks on me and not to trust my heart or my impulsiveness. Lots of hard work, recommitment and dedication and I saw it all for what it was and love my wife completely again. For the first few months I had to fight the urge to reach out to the OW and many great friends on here talked me down from the ledge a few times. It has long passed now and will for you too if you keep determined and resolute. You maybe should consdier changing your phone/email details so he can't get you at a weak moment and drag you back in?

 

If you can see any hope for your marriage (and it seems you do), I think the popular advice is to give your marriage everything you've got for a considerable amount of time (a year is often touted) and if after that, it hasn't worked, you are free to walk away with dignity. This work will inevitably involve lots of open, honest conversation with your H. As to whether you tell him or not is of course down to you and there are lots of conflcting opinioins on that here. I won't go there here.

 

Whatever happens, the guy in Belgium seems to have issues and would be likely to cause you frustration and problems even if you ever did end up with him. Also, as you've seen yourself, it would be an enormous upheaval to be with him, in another country, not speaking the language and with a heartbroken GF and three kids in the mix, probably hating you. Even if YOU could deal with it, I doubt HE could.

 

Stay with us lost! You seem like a lovely person who has made mistakes and gone down a few wrong paths. Welcome to the club! You will be OK.

 

More (((hugs))) x

Edited August 7, 2017 by jenkins95

[elaine567]

I know you believe he is a player.

 

I do not necessarily believe he is a player, only to say that "shyness" is not always a sign of someone who is honest and true.

Shyness and perceived vulnerability in a man can sometimes be a better hook than bravado, fancy words and flattery, and some players are well aware of that.

[jenkins95]

"The heart is a very powerful thing and I can't believe how much it can overpower logical thought and reason. I really do hope that I can come back and post how I've successfully moved on..."

 

I think we'd all agree with this! Many of us have been burnt by it. Please, please, please keep posting! I know you will be able to successfully move on if you work at it and do the right thngs. Use us. We are here from you. I will be looking out for those positive updates! Life lessons hard learned. No one is perfect.

[jenkins95]

Follow this guys actions and they say you were and are just sex. No matter how you convince yourself otherwise. We all understand it's a bitter pill because you basically threw it all away for him. So no of course you want a deeper meaning. BTW heavy drinkers have the shakes I highly doubt it has anything to do with his childhood.

 

I really feel bad for your husband, you say you were not thinking logically. Illogical would have been dumping your husband and moving there. You were very caculated in your actions. Testing the waters while Keeping your husband on the hook.

 

I have two questions....1) what would you have done if he said I've left her come here with me? You would have left your husband really right? 2) if your not going to be honest, what do you think you will get out of MC? I can tell you from experience all you will gain is a bill.

 

 

I actually agrere with this even though my post after DKT3's has a very different feel.

 

DKT3 was cheated on and therefore understandably takes a no nonsense stance with little sympathy for cheaters, which I totally respect.

 

I on the other hand, was a cheater myself and understand the mental knots we can get ourselves tied up in as waywards (absolutely no sympthy here, by the way - we are 100% responsible for the mess we create), and how our behaviour, choices, clarity and general mental stability can be massively comproimised as a result of this.

 

My post is basically a much more "gently gently" post, written by a former wayward.

 

But we agree in essence that going forward you need to be honest (with yourself and your H), take ownership of what you did and work like crazy if you want to save your marriage.

 

Good luck lost!

Edited August 7, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[anika99]

That is why this feels so painful. Because I KNOW now it's gone too far, and there is not a shred of hope left. Before, I had the hope that he would 'realise his mistake', which he sort of did but then it just all happened again in the exact same way. It is very, very sad because I have never encountered someone so angry at the world, so self-destructive, and so neglected and sad. And I really did hope that by loving him and supporting him I could help. He hasn't contacted me and I believe he won't because he likely realises too that nothing can come of this but pain.

 

What mistake were you hoping he would realize he was making? Because quite frankly the only time in this entire story that this guy has even sounded like an evev somewhat decent human being is when he seemed to realize what a piece of crap he was being for ditching his small children so he could sneak away to mess with another woman. I know you think you are much better than his gf, and that he is making a big mistake in not choosing you, what with her being so uninteresting and not having any hobbies and all, but please tell me what hobbies should she taking up when she is taking care of 3 small children who aren't even in school yet and one is still an infant. You have no idea how much work that is, how little kids take over your life and your house, how you never get any sleep and don't even know how your supposed to take a shower without someone else there to watch the kids.

 

You say you don't want to waste your baby making years waiting for him. So you want to have his babies? So that one day you can be left at home caring for your and his children while he is off having sex with another woman and telling her that you are boring and have no hobbies? You keep saying you know this man but you do not. You don't really get to know someone by just listening to their stories. Sure talking and long conversations is a small part of getting to know someone but you only really get to know someone by spending a great deal of time with them in every kind of setting. Even then you don't really know someone until you live with them.

[MuddyFootprints]

Broken people can't save broken people.

 

If you need a project, remodel your kitchen

[stillafool]

Yes, I will, under no circumstances have sex. That would undo all my days of NC.

 

That evening (sorry to be graphic) I pulled out all the stops in the bedroom and he said again 'how on earth did an ugly guy like me get you?

 

As we said you would have sex with him so he got just what he wanted. I hope now you finally have your closure that he is not going to leave his wife and kids to be with you. A lot of selfish men use flattery and any other tool to get sex when their wife is pregnant or has just given birth. They are horny as hell and too selfish to wait it out. As you can see this man was just blowing smoke and never had any intention of leaving his wife and family for you. I hope you will do the right thing by your husband and set him free to find the love of his life.

[jenkins95]

As we said you would have sex with him so he got just what he wanted. I hope now you finally have your closure that he is not going to leave his wife and kids to be with you. A lot of selfish men use flattery and any other tool to get sex when their wife is pregnant or has just given birth. They are horny as hell and too selfish to wait it out. As you can see this man was just blowing smoke and never had any intention of leaving his wife and family for you. I hope you will do the right thing by your husband and set him free to find the love of his life.

 

Yes it was very predictable unfortunately and those of us that have been in similar situations saw it a mile off. I could have written those quotes from stillafool and the following one too for lost myself as soon as she told us she was considering the meet......

 

When I met him at the station, he was shaking he was so excited and pleased to see me. It was just like the previous times, we couldn't stop kissing and staring lovingly at each other. We spent the day together, had a wonderful time and ended the evening in bed.

 

It reads like a script from a trashy novel I'm afraid! No judgement - been there myself as the MM.

 

Life lessons hard learned (((lost))). I really hope you will be able to get past this, find clarity and fix your marriage.

Edited August 9, 2017 by jenkins95