Turning the tables [after an affair]

[Overtaxed]

Well, find myself in an odd spot. For those who didn't see my story, wife cheated about 6 months ago with a coworker, currently working on R. Don't really want to rehash that part; but I'm experiencing a strange thing in our relationship that I really don't understand.

 

I've always been the HD partner. Pursuing wife for sex, then, finally, after enough "no", I gave up and waited for her to initiate; looking back, that was the beginning of the end (the lead up to the A), once I stopped pursuing her she thought I didn't care. I did, I just couldn't take anymore rejection.

 

Anyway, fast forward to today. Sex life is dramatically better. W is engaged and both initiating and responding to sexual advances much more "normally" than she ever did in the past (~15 years). Sex is more fun, more intimate, more adventurous. All of it. If this had happened after our wedding, I would be the happiest guy in the world.

 

Problem is, I'm so caught in my head I can't enjoy it. I keep thinking "Is this how she was with him". I keep wondering if she's doing it because she wants to or because she feels she has to. I can't clear my mind when we have sex, I just get "locked" in loops of trying to figure things out, for once, I'm the one who can't relax and enjoy the moment, a completely out of character feeling for me. I never felt this way in my life before during sex, I never questioned things, I never worried about my next thing, never found myself thinking about every little movement or touch. It's maddening, and I suppose this is how my W used to feel about sex (and maybe still does), I feel like I can't even enjoy it because I'm so worried about what's going on in my head, which is primarily "what's going on in her head".

 

I titled this "turning the tables" because now I'm the one with the questions and issues in the bedroom. This has never happened to me before, I never had this kind of mental prison while having sex, in fact, sex was the one place I always felt I could relax and finally be myself. Now I don't know who to be anymore, me, him (the AP), someone else? In particular, there's one sexual act that my WW did with her AP that we never did together, and, before we met, was my favorite thing to do with other women. If you told me I was dying tomorrow and had one more night with my W, this is what I'd want to do. Except that I can't even do it now. I try, and I want to, but I have a massive struggle "finishing" because of all the thoughts that are now associated with it.

 

I don't expect an answer, but if anyone has some experience with this, I'd sure like to hear how you worked through it. I feel like the thing that is so important to me, the thing that I always loved about myself (my sexuality) is broken, and I need to get it back, it's bad for me and bad for my WW; she's doing the right things and I just can't seem to clear myself enough to open back up to her.

[Mrs. John Adams]

its real simple...she is doing everything in her power to prove to you she wants you to keep her.

 

Stop trying to complicate and overthink everything she does or says.

 

You will wind up being your own worst enemy.

[Overtaxed]

its real simple...she is doing everything in her power to prove to you she wants you to keep her.

 

Stop trying to complicate and overthink everything she does or says.

 

You will wind up being your own worst enemy.

 

Wind up? I'm already my own worst enemy!

 

This isn't about her though, it's about me. I'm the one locked in this, it's not that she's doing the wrong things, it's that I'm caught in my mind. I don't want her to change anything, I want to change what's going on inside of me.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Wind up? I'm already my own worst enemy!

 

This isn't about her though, it's about me. I'm the one locked in this, it's not that she's doing the wrong things, it's that I'm caught in my mind. I don't want her to change anything, I want to change what's going on inside of me.

 

For gods sake .... give yourself time... remember john Adams had an r a two years after my affair.

 

You are in your own mind

 

Enjoy your new home and your wife and a new start

 

Please

[Hecan]

First I have no doubt you love your wife and your story grabbed me by the throat, I want you guys to make it so bad!! It hasn't really been that long for you guys !!

Oddly have you not said before (. And please correct me if I'm wrong ) that for you sex even with your wife wasn't about feeling or love, it was about physical?? It sounds like feeling is suddenly bombarding you and you have no idea what to do with it. OR would you say it's more paralysis with analysis? You are getting what you want and don't know what to do with it.

They say the majority of sex happens in the brain, guess yours is having a party in there.

I'm not a guy so no ideas from me other than trying to relax and enjoy, listen to music, make love outside of the bedroom, just anything to shut your mind down so you can enjoy. And OT, give yourself a break man!!! Y'all have gone through a lot and it isn't over. It's changing!!

She sounds like she wants to make you happy and give you what you need!!

[AlwaysGrowing]

Wind up? I'm already my own worst enemy!

 

This isn't about her though, it's about me. I'm the one locked in this, it's not that she's doing the wrong things, it's that I'm caught in my mind. I don't want her to change anything, I want to change what's going on inside of me.

 

The affair has changed you. Dramatically.

 

Of course you dont feel like you....you are not the you that you know.

 

WS made choices. They made decisions. They had free will in the way they chose to change who they are. They experienced every nuance in real time. It was their experience.

 

BS did not experience it however they have trauma from it. Trauma from an event/s that they themselves did not experience. The mind struggles to piece together the trauma...to locate it...identify it...and there is nothing but our own minds recreation of it. But is it real? Our mind has no stored memory of it to draw from for fact checking. And so it goes. Until the tapestry of the traumatic event has been woven into the tapestry of self.

 

Acceptance. When the mind tires of driving itself mad trying to self fact check something that it can never fact check that is when you will start to let the new you feel more comfortable.

 

Dont beat yourself up or think that you are crazy. You are just someone who has to get to know/trust the new you.

[merrmeade]

Isn't this what's referred to as "mind movies," where the BS can't turn off the imagination's depiction of things 'they' did and sees these scenes projected in the mind like a repeating movie? It still happens to me but doesn't last or become as debilitating as in the beginning - if that's what's happening.

 

That's the Catch-22 of getting the details.

[Arieswoman]

Overtaxed,

First of all I take my hat off to you for your efforts at reconciliation, which are admirable.

 

Now look at it this way.

A soldier comes back from Afghanistan. He's seen his comrades blown up by roadside bombs, he's been shot at, had to live in a tent in the searing heat, didn't know if his next patrol would be his last patrol. etc.

He starts showing uncharacteristic behaviour and after 6 months it hasn't altered.

Would you find this unreasonable/unusual?

 

The answer of course is no.

 

This fictitious soldier has PTSD.

 

And so do you.

 

Because of your wife's affair, your view of her, life, your marriage and your reality has been irrevocably changed.

 

Are you engaged in counselling?

 

I am sorry you are going through this

[aileD]

You need to recondition yourself.

 

When in bed make your mind focus on nothing but physical sensation. If you find your mind wandering, (I know this sounds dumb)...mentally picture a safe in your mine....put the thoughts into the safe and close the door. Tell yourself, "I don't have to abandon these thoughts, im just putting them into safe keeping for the next hour"

 

You are conditioning yourself to think of OM every time you have sex w/wife and thats becoming a habit and habits are hard to break (9 mos usually). Try to make your habit be something else.

[Overtaxed]

First I have no doubt you love your wife and your story grabbed me by the throat, I want you guys to make it so bad!! It hasn't really been that long for you guys !!

Oddly have you not said before (. And please correct me if I'm wrong ) that for you sex even with your wife wasn't about feeling or love, it was about physical?? It sounds like feeling is suddenly bombarding you and you have no idea what to do with it. OR would you say it's more paralysis with analysis? You are getting what you want and don't know what to do with it.

They say the majority of sex happens in the brain, guess yours is having a party in there.

I'm not a guy so no ideas from me other than trying to relax and enjoy, listen to music, make love outside of the bedroom, just anything to shut your mind down so you can enjoy. And OT, give yourself a break man!!! Y'all have gone through a lot and it isn't over. It's changing!!

She sounds like she wants to make you happy and give you what you need!!

 

Thanks Hecan, appreciate the words and insight.

 

No, sex for me was never primarily about feelings and love. It's my primary way of experiencing those things, I do believe that, but I do separate (as do most men, I suspect) sex from love pretty easily. Yes, I'm overwhelmed by feelings right now in general an unusual and uncomfortable situation for me because I typically contain all of them (feelings) with logic. I can't do that here, logic leads me down a path that I don't want, so I have to "lead with" my feelings and that's uncharted territory for me.

 

I LOL'ed at "yours is having a party here". That's exactly what's going on. It's crazy. Yes, she not only wants to make me happy and give me what I need to heal; she IS doing it. Her actions are exactly what I want (in regards to our sexuality), she's present, she's finally (it was never like this in our relationship) "present" during sex. It feels like having sex with someone who wants to have sex, again, something that has never really been the case in our relationship before. It's not that her efforts are misguided, it's that my stupid mind won't react the way it "should" to those efforts.

 

I do want to make something clear, because a lot of these posts seemed to think I was looking for justification to move on/D; I'm not, not at all. I'm happy, I feel like we're healing, and I have as much resolve to work on this together that I did after d-day. This isn't me looking for an excuse to "throw in the towel"; I don't need one, if I want to D, I'll D, and I won't ask the question in a roundabout manner here "hoping" other posters tell me to D to validate my decision. That's not what this is at all. I know I post often, and I know in some of my posts, I might actually come off as "knowing something" about infidelity because of the reading I've done, but, I'm just like everyone else, just because I've done a lot of reading, a lot of writing, and a lot of soul searching doesn't make me any further along than anyone else at 5 (almost 6 now!) months out.

[Overtaxed]

Isn't this what's referred to as "mind movies," where the BS can't turn off the imagination's depiction of things 'they' did and sees these scenes projected in the mind like a repeating movie? It still happens to me but doesn't last or become as debilitating as in the beginning - if that's what's happening.

 

That's the Catch-22 of getting the details.

 

I actually see them as two separate things; I have both what I would consider "mind movies" and what I'm describing above, the "sexual vault". Man, I hope that sticks, that's a great term for us to talk about.

 

Mind movies, to me, are when I'm sitting somewhere or doing something and my mind drifts to the A, and I actually imagine my W doing something sexual with the AP. Yes, I get them, yes, they suck. They are typically triggered when I have time to think (in the car, for example) or when something from the A pops up (a picture, the car they had sex in, etc). They suck, but, primarily because of what I'd read here, I'm ready for them, and I work through them with "this will pass".

 

This is more a questioning of "what's real" in the bedroom. It's not as much picturing them together beyond "Is this the real her, and is this the her he got to see". But the fundamental problem here isn't "him" it's me, and it's me questioning "what's real". Is this what she wants? Is this who she really is? Is this just because of what she did, or is this really her? It's who I want her to be, it's who most other women I've been with have been, but we have a long history of sexual "hangups" in our relationship; all of which have evaporated, and now I'm left wondering; why were they there in the first place? What was real, this or that?

 

Honestly, I've never regretted getting the details, because, for me, I know there was no healing without them. I had mind movies that were FAR worse than reality (with the one exception; frequency) before I had built the "real picture" in my mind. Just like some people know that R is off the table the minute it's proven physical, I knew that that R was impossible without the details. Sure, I wish I didn't have the thoughts, but, the right way to fix that is to go back before the A and un-have it, not to bury my head in the sand and refuse to accept what actually happened here. <- But this is for ME, and not for everyone. I do respect and think that some people are better not knowing, it just wasn't the right answer for me.

[dichotomy]

I dont know if this will work - but maybe perhaps a mental and emotional mind shift about how you view her during sex.

 

In a way - marriage are different after an affair - the people are different - the cheater the betrayed spouse - changed.

 

Perhaps maybe you can let go of the old her in your head...pretend or visualize you are having sex with a new "fresh gal" ? In other words "this is not my wife - its some new hot woman ?"

 

Just try next time to pretend in your head - role play - you are with someone new - (married people do that some times for hotness - role play pretend they dont know each other) next time and go for it! Do that old act you crave and maybe even something new for both of you - thats your own new thing.

 

It sounds like she is really trying to please you and repair things.

Edited June 23, 2017 by dichotomy

[Overtaxed]

Overtaxed,

First of all I take my hat off to you for your efforts at reconciliation, which are admirable.

 

Now look at it this way.

A soldier comes back from Afghanistan. He's seen his comrades blown up by roadside bombs, he's been shot at, had to live in a tent in the searing heat, didn't know if his next patrol would be his last patrol. etc.

He starts showing uncharacteristic behaviour and after 6 months it hasn't altered.

Would you find this unreasonable/unusual?

 

The answer of course is no.

 

This fictitious soldier has PTSD.

 

And so do you.

 

Because of your wife's affair, your view of her, life, your marriage and your reality has been irrevocably changed.

 

Are you engaged in counselling?

 

I am sorry you are going through this

 

Thanks Aries, I appreciate it. I do see the comparison point, and, to answer the question, no, I'm not in IC anymore, I was for the first 2-3 months out of the A but then we moved away and I never got a new IC, just our shared MC.

 

Is it PTSD? I don't know, I realize this is a horrible event in my life, but I struggle to draw the comparison to what you describe (typical PTSD) above. I wasn't shot at, I didn't see people die, in fact, I didn't see anything at all. Nothing actually "happened to me". That's the thing that's crazy about this, there aren't any physical impacts, nothing tangible is "gone". Yes, trust is damaged, and yes, I question things now. But (my rational mind talking), AFAIK; I've never slept with a virgin before, so, how is this really any different? My W had slept with other people before we married and just added one more number to the list. The rational part of me thinks "so what". The emotional side of me, of course, is blown apart. I always lead with the rational though, but, in this situation, it's hard to not look and see the emotional damage that's ripping through my mind.

 

I'm didn't post because I wasn't happy that it wasn't "over" (the healing from the A), I get it, this is going to take time. I am, however, very impatient, so I figure if it takes 2 years for most, if we read 2X as much as most couples and talk about it 2X as much and post on it 2X as much, then, sure, it's reasonable to heal in 2 months instead of 2 years. Kind of like that saying that it takes 9 months to make a baby no matter what you do; I do realize that it's probably true, I've got at least another 18 months of this, and I'm OK with that. I just hadn't seen many people say that they had this kind of problem in recovery, and even those that I did see, didn't exactly fit my situation.

[Overtaxed]

I dont know if this will work - but maybe perhaps a mental and emotional mind shift about how you view her during sex.

 

In a way - marriage are different after an affair - the people are different - the cheater the betrayed spouse - changed.

 

Perhaps maybe you can let go of the old her in your head...pretend or visualize you are having sex with a new "fresh gal" ? In other words "this is not my wife - its some new hot woman ?"

 

Just try next time to pretend in your head - role play - you are with someone new - (married people do that some times for hotness - role play pretend they dont know each other) next time and go for it! Do that old act you crave and maybe even something new for both of you - thats your own new thing.

 

It sounds like she is really trying to please you and repair things.

 

I like this idea a lot, I'll see if I can put it into practice. It's hilarious in some sad ways, because, if I'd just met her and we fell into bed together, I'd think to myself "wow, did I hit the jackpot!". So it's not like I need to lie to myself about her being physically attractive to me, or her being good in bed. I just need to, maybe as you said, "role play" away the old her (and me that I was with her) to try to view it for what it is NOW, what it was in the past and not who she was with the AP.

 

To your last point, there's no question of that. And that thought never enters my mind during sex (does she want to fix this?). In fact, it's the opposite, I feel like she'd be "up for anything" sexually to fix this, which, of course, put me in the situation of having to try to restrain myself to make sure I don't push any boundaries that really do bother her or make her uncomfortable.

 

You know the hardest part? How often do you see me posting on WS's threads saying "The words mean nothing, the actions tell the story". Well, here I am, actions are right, words are lining up, and still, it's not "right" in my mind. It's self-sabotage at the end of the day and I know I need to stop doing it because I'm not enjoying exactly the things that I should be enjoying for myself, for her, and for us. But there's nothing I can even ask her to do to "fix it", I know it's 100% on me because she's done "her part" in the sexual actions department. It's a funny situation to be in. I guess the saying, "Be careful what you wish for because you might get it" comes to mind. I got it. It's what I wished for. And now I'm not dealing with it correctly! But it's me, not her, and while there are still some things I do want her to do that she hasn't yet (blogging primarily, I think she can use the guidance of a group like this), this isn't one of those areas.

[road]

I dont know if this will work - but maybe perhaps a mental and emotional mind shift about how you view her during sex.

 

In a way - marriage are different after an affair - the people are different - the cheater the betrayed spouse - changed.

 

Perhaps maybe you can let go of the old her in your head...pretend or visualize you are having sex with a new "fresh gal" ? In other words "this is not my wife - its some new hot woman ?"

 

Just try next time to pretend in your head - role play - you are with someone new - (married people do that some times for hotness - role play pretend they dont know each other) next time and go for it! Do that old act you crave and maybe even something new for both of you - thats your own new thing.

 

It sounds like she is really trying to please you and repair things.

 

Pretend she is your AP/OW that you are having affair sex with. You're

stealing her from her OM.

[Overtaxed]

Pretend she is your AP/OW that you are having affair sex with. You're

stealing her from her OM.

 

ROFL, that's totally messed up in many ways, but, in some ways, I can see exactly why that might work.

[understand50]

Overtax,

 

This will go away and get better with time. As for your wife being "real" in the bedroom, I would say that for each of you, and all her past lovers she was different in some way. Body shapes and size would make a difference. If you are talking about her emotions, then, sure she was different, because it was forbidden sex, compared to married sex. You need to stop comparing or wondering, and live in the moment. As you also have a past, are you the same compared to your past lovers? This is just to give some perspective.

 

I wish you luck.....

[Silveron]

Look up the seven stages of grief, this will help you.

[Overtaxed]

Overtax,

 

This will go away and get better with time. As for your wife being "real" in the bedroom, I would say that for each of you, and all her past lovers she was different in some way. Body shapes and size would make a difference. If you are talking about her emotions, then, sure she was different, because it was forbidden sex, compared to married sex. You need to stop comparing or wondering, and live in the moment. As you also have a past, are you the same compared to your past lovers? This is just to give some perspective.

 

I wish you luck.....

 

That's my thought/hope Understand, and I think it will. Like I've said a few times, it's not her, it's me. And time is healing the wounds, I guess they just pop up at different times. Right after DD, I didn't have any of this at all, but I didn't trust her at all either. Now I trust her a lot more, but I have this issue. Fix one thing, then move on to fix the next.

 

To your question about previous lovers, it's an interesting point and something I've talked with the W about. No, I'm not at all the same. But, I was the same with most of them compared to my W. I changed when I met her to try to meet what she laid out as what she needed in the relationship sexually. But with my previous partners, I was very different. I'm not sure I see this as a good thing though, in many ways, I feel the other lovers got the "real me" or, put another way, the more authentic me, while my wife has gotten less than most of them did. In some ways, I faked it more with her than anyone else, because; and I know this sounds ridiculous, I knew from the very beginning that she was different and I didn't want that to mess it up. But I'm now left looking at the person I've become sexually and not very happy with it, especially not when those changes I made, the things she told me about herself, weren't exactly entirely true (as evidenced by her activities during the A). So I'm trying to be more authentic there too, but, honestly, it's terrifying in some ways; I've hidden that part of myself our entire relationship, I'm having trouble letting it come through again.

[knabe]

I think it is absolutely normal to feel this way.

 

When I was a child, we had a very large dog. It got overly excited one day when I was about 5, and it ran over me and dragged me all over the yard repeatedly.

 

I was an adult before big dogs didn't scare me.

 

The first funeral I attended after my boyfriend died was traumatic. It reminded me of him.

 

As you both work through recovery, I have belief that this will get better. In the mean time, if you are in the middle of intimacy and you get overwhelmed or "just can't," be honest. It takes time. And a caring WW will understand and just hold you or give you space or whatever you need.

[elaine567]

The problem here would be a lot easier to deal with if your wife was exactly the same wife you knew before the affair, low drive, hang ups, complaining about the sex being painful and not really that interested in having sex with you as you are too big... At least that would be the "real" her, the person she is now, you do not recognise and that is very confusing.

 

Now she has turned into this woman in the bedroom that you don't really know any more and is that because her OM managed to do something you could never do, ie turn her in to a woman who thinks sex is great? Or is she still the same old low drive woman but is now desperately trying to save her marriage by feigning interest and acting a part, ie being the woman you want her to be, as she feels she owes you...

 

Neither is a comfortable thought.

Do you accept her as is, forget the OM's input into this "new" woman, and push even more boundaries with her, and just hope it all lasts, or do you delve deeper in a quest for "honesty", and potentially find it is all just a charade on her part?

 

It is a dilemma, but it is not your sexuality that is broken here.

You are just not sure that what you are now doing sexually with your wife is acceptable to her and if she is a truly willing partner, as she never was before and if I was to be totally honest I am not so sure she is a truly willing partner now either.

Personally I think if you push boundaries and make her do what you always wanted her to do sexually, (things unacceptable to the old her), it will only fuel resentment in her and push her away. She may be desperate, but she is not stupid either, she will know if you are taking advantage of the situation and it will all get old pretty quick.

I would guess that all this new found adventurous stuff is not the "real" her.

I think instead of pressing forth as your wife is now a sex siren, I think you need to go back to basics and take baby steps, if you want this marriage to work long term.

 

Of course if all this has highlighted the gulf that exists between sex with your wife and sex with others then you may need to re-assess the whole situation.

[Cephalopod]

You need to recondition yourself.

 

When in bed make your mind focus on nothing but physical sensation. If you find your mind wandering, (I know this sounds dumb)...mentally picture a safe in your mine....put the thoughts into the safe and close the door. Tell yourself, "I don't have to abandon these thoughts, im just putting them into safe keeping for the next hour"

 

You are conditioning yourself to think of OM every time you have sex w/wife and thats becoming a habit and habits are hard to break (9 mos usually). Try to make your habit be something else.

 

This....

 

I hate to sound crude, but in the short term the best way to get over this hump is to objectify her.

 

Stop thinking of her as your wife and think of her as a chick you are ****ing. Don't worry so much about pleasuring her and getting her off. If I were you, I'd use her for YOUR pleasure. Take charge and toss her around the bed a bit and do what you want...short of assault or rape of course. She is offering herself to you. Don't be shy.

 

It's really about retraining your brain and body to work with each other again. Like someone said, you have suffered a trauma, and with any trauma there is a rehabilitation process.

 

And yeah...she put out and did some things for the other guy that she didn't do for you. Well, she can't go back and fix that. What you are having trouble with is absorbing the truth that this is who your wife is. She is a much more sexual being than she put on before all this happened. She has to take ownership of the fact that she misrepresented herself to you, and you have to accept that inside her there is a ho waiting to break out and get her freak on. So you need to work on that openness with her, and do what you can to make her feel safe to open herself up and tell you what she wants.

 

Also, go to a sex therapist and get help.

[Overtaxed]

The problem here would be a lot easier to deal with if your wife was exactly the same wife you knew before the affair, low drive, hang ups, complaining about the sex being painful and not really that interested in having sex with you as you are too big... At least that would be the "real" her, the person she is now, you do not recognise and that is very confusing.

 

Now she has turned into this woman in the bedroom that you don't really know any more and is that because her OM managed to do something you could never do, ie turn her in to a woman who thinks sex is great? Or is she still the same old low drive woman but is now desperately trying to save her marriage by feigning interest and acting a part, ie being the woman you want her to be, as she feels she owes you...

 

Neither is a comfortable thought.

Do you accept her as is, forget the OM's input into this "new" woman, and push even more boundaries with her, and just hope it all lasts, or do you delve deeper in a quest for "honesty", and potentially find it is all just a charade on her part?

 

It is a dilemma, but it is not your sexuality that is broken here.

You are just not sure that what you are now doing sexually with your wife is acceptable to her and if she is a truly willing partner, as she never was before and if I was to be totally honest I am not so sure she is a truly willing partner now either.

Personally I think if you push boundaries and make her do what you always wanted her to do sexually, (things unacceptable to the old her), it will only fuel resentment in her and push her away. She may be desperate, but she is not stupid either, she will know if you are taking advantage of the situation and it will all get old pretty quick.

I would guess that all this new found adventurous stuff is not the "real" her.

I think instead of pressing forth as your wife is now a sex siren, I think you need to go back to basics and take baby steps, if you want this marriage to work long term.

 

Of course if all this has highlighted the gulf that exists between sex with your wife and sex with others then you may need to re-assess the whole situation.

 

Well, you've captured it perfectly Elaine.

 

What she said to me, she always felt closed off from during sex because I wasn't emotionally connecting with her, I'm doing that better, and that's making her feel more comfortable. It's a reasonable answer, but, my mind goes back to what you're saying; "if I was to be totally honest I am not so sure she is a truly willing partner now either. "

 

I'm not sure either. It's probably the biggest part of the issue that I can't seem to get past. She did these things with the OM, and, obviously, there she was a willing partner, so, it's not like they are outside her lines, it's they are outside of the boundaries that she drew for our relationship. So which was the "real her". It's almost like, looking back, we were both performing for the other. I was toning down my drive to meet what she was presenting, which was a toned down version of her drive. I knew she'd done things with OM that we hadn't done (I hated it, but I knew it). So there was obviously something there at some point. But, I let it go (which may have been a major mistake; I had "red flags" flashing everywhere in my mind about this 14 years ago, I pushed them down and moved forward anyway). But the "old her" in our relationship isn't the "old her" entirely, she's been the person she presented to the OM and the person she presents to me now before, just not in our relationship.

 

I do think there's some madonna/wh*re complex stuff going on here. Not from me, but from her. She wanted to present to me as nearly asexual to get respect, but that's not really who she is; or, if it is, it's only that way with me. Is this new found zeal who she really is? Somewhere in the middle? IDK. I also do know I don't want to go back (to your "back to basics" recommendation) our old sex life was very restrictive to me and it was probably, if I had to rank it, one of the most upsetting parts of our "pre-A" marriage. This is what I want, but not at the expense of her being who she really is. I'm just not sure who that person is, and I'm not sure she knows either at times.

[Cephalopod]

Well, you've captured it perfectly Elaine.

 

What she said to me, she always felt closed off from during sex because I wasn't emotionally connecting with her, I'm doing that better, and that's making her feel more comfortable. It's a reasonable answer, but, my mind goes back to what you're saying; "if I was to be totally honest I am not so sure she is a truly willing partner now either. "

 

I'm not sure either. It's probably the biggest part of the issue that I can't seem to get past. She did these things with the OM, and, obviously, there she was a willing partner, so, it's not like they are outside her lines, it's they are outside of the boundaries that she drew for our relationship. So which was the "real her". It's almost like, looking back, we were both performing for the other. I was toning down my drive to meet what she was presenting, which was a toned down version of her drive. I knew she'd done things with OM that we hadn't done (I hated it, but I knew it). So there was obviously something there at some point. But, I let it go (which may have been a major mistake; I had "red flags" flashing everywhere in my mind about this 14 years ago, I pushed them down and moved forward anyway). But the "old her" in our relationship isn't the "old her" entirely, she's been the person she presented to the OM and the person she presents to me now before, just not in our relationship.

 

I do think there's some madonna/wh*re complex stuff going on here. Not from me, but from her. She wanted to present to me as nearly asexual to get respect, but that's not really who she is; or, if it is, it's only that way with me. Is this new found zeal who she really is? Somewhere in the middle? IDK. I also do know I don't want to go back (to your "back to basics" recommendation) our old sex life was very restrictive to me and it was probably, if I had to rank it, one of the most upsetting parts of our "pre-A" marriage. This is what I want, but not at the expense of her being who she really is. I'm just not sure who that person is, and I'm not sure she knows either at times.

 

I'm sorry man, but your wife is full of crap. Full of prime USDA american bull-****. Her holding back had nothing to do with your not being emotionally open. That is pure 100% cheater-speak and rewriting history. She is still holding the OM to a higher opinion than you, instead of acknowledging him for the lowdown dirty rat that he was. Do you not see what she is doing? She is comparing you to him.

 

She is still making b.s. excuses and you are still buying into them.

[Overtaxed]

This....

 

I hate to sound crude, but in the short term the best way to get over this hump is to objectify her.

 

Stop thinking of her as your wife and think of her as a chick you are ****ing. Don't worry so much about pleasuring her and getting her off. If I were you, I'd use her for YOUR pleasure. Take charge and toss her around the bed a bit and do what you want...short of assault or rape of course. She is offering herself to you. Don't be shy.

 

It's really about retraining your brain and body to work with each other again. Like someone said, you have suffered a trauma, and with any trauma there is a rehabilitation process.

 

And yeah...she put out and did some things for the other guy that she didn't do for you. Well, she can't go back and fix that. What you are having trouble with is absorbing the truth that this is who your wife is. She is a much more sexual being than she put on before all this happened. She has to take ownership of the fact that she misrepresented herself to you, and you have to accept that inside her there is a ho waiting to break out and get her freak on. So you need to work on that openness with her, and do what you can to make her feel safe to open herself up and tell you what she wants.

 

Also, go to a sex therapist and get help.

 

This post is classic, I really needed the laugh I got out of it. And maybe it is the right answer, don't think my laughing is dismissing it; but, IDK why, but I just found it very funny. Break the bed and toss her around, it'll make you feel better.

 

What you are having trouble with is absorbing the truth that this is who your wife is.

 

I'm not sure that's exactly it. I want it to be true. If I thought it was true, I'd be all for it, it's always what I wanted for her and for us. I want to "absorb" that truth. It's how other women were with me, and it's what I "expected" from her when we got together. But it was never "her". Except in the A. So I guess you could say I'm not absorbing the truth, but, I'd put it another way, I'm not accepting this as "the truth" yet. Does it seem more real and authentic/normal to me than what we had for the past 14 years? Yes, it does. And if it was anyone else, I wouldn't bat an eyelash here, we're not talking about a dungeon scene with candle wax and whips here, we're just talking about normal, everyday sexual stuff. Initiating sex, talking during sex, laughing, moaning.. Stuff like that. It's become "normal", or at least what I consider normal compared to other's I've been with. It's just that "normal" was not at all normal for us.