Turning the tables [after an affair]

[Marc878]

This whole issue revolves around why it takes 2-5 years to sort out. It's only been a short time and you're struggling upfront. That's to be expected.

 

Make no mistake the dynamics of your marriage have changed permanently. At this time you don't know how they'll settle out.

 

The thing is your wife's back but what have you got now? She's not and never will be the same and neither will you.

 

Only time and effort from the both of you will determine that.

 

No matter how you slice it or dice it you can never match the excitement of affair sex in a marriage. Even though affairs are fantasies that could never last the memories do.

[road]

If you know any betrayed husbands who have recovered or are recovering who have healthy psyches and still love and respect their wives, get close to those men. Those are the type of man you want to emulate.

 

Finding a needle in a hay stack. BH's don't go around saying I was cheated

on do you want to talk about it.

[Overtaxed]

Finding a needle in a hay stack. BH's don't go around saying I was cheated

on do you want to talk about it.

 

LOL, pretty funny, but I'll ask a serious question that stems from this. I actually do know quite a few men who've been cheated on. Finding that "guy" isn't the problem. The problem is the "want to talk about it part". I can't picture EVER talking about something like this with another man if they'd been through it or not. I'm not sure if I just have an odd communication style, but, I've never shared anything like this with my friends; my friendships are very much about common interests, common goals (work, mostly) and things like that.

 

Saying, "My wife cheated on me" to any of my friends, I'd see as about as "conversation starting" as saying "I'm a terrorist". Is this "normal" or do most men have friends they'd share something like this with?

[Overtaxed]

A lot of good discussion here. A number of long posts.

Maybe you mentioned it, maybe I missed it. Maybe you didn't mention it, but you two are doing it.

It sounds like this should specifically be part of the conversation you are having with your wife.

You both need to figure out the authentic you and her.

The only person that can answer these questions is your wife. Neither one of you are mind readers. She may not even have really thought about these issues specifically in so many words. Or, maybe she is working through all of the same issues in almost the same words/thoughts.

Until she answers your specific questions, you may end up repeating the same relationship problems in different ways.

It sounds like lots of speculation, assumptions and guessing, and unresolved fears and concerns.

Tell her your misgivings and concerns. You both deserve to work through this with the truth if you want a truthful outcome.

 

We are having the conversations Dan; and, a big reason I posted this, it's not like she's doing anything wrong or should change anything. It's me who's not having the right reaction, not what she's doing. So I don't exactly know how to go about talking with her about this other than "it's a struggle for me", which, I have told her, but I just don't see how she can help more than she is already. I titled this "turning the tables" because of the sexual aspect of it, but it's also doing the same about the A in general. She's doing the work in this area of our relationship, she's doing exactly what I want her to do, it's just that it's still all jumbled in up in my mind. If this had happened pre-A, I'd be on cloud 9 right now, this is what I always wanted from our sexual relationship, it's just about everything I could ask. I'm the one who's messing it up and trapped in my head, not her.

[Overtaxed]

This whole issue revolves around why it takes 2-5 years to sort out. It's only been a short time and you're struggling upfront. That's to be expected.

 

Make no mistake the dynamics of your marriage have changed permanently. At this time you don't know how they'll settle out.

 

The thing is your wife's back but what have you got now? She's not and never will be the same and neither will you.

 

Only time and effort from the both of you will determine that.

 

No matter how you slice it or dice it you can never match the excitement of affair sex in a marriage. Even though affairs are fantasies that could never last the memories do.

 

Yup, and I'm not upset about the time it's taking, I just never expected THIS to be a problem. This was the one aspect of myself that was constant, the one thing I could always depend on, sex always cleared my mind and I was totally focused on what what happening, right now, and not the future/past. I'm not saying you're not right, I'm sure you are, but I just didn't expect this part of it. The pain from the betrayal, the lack of trust, the lost innocence. All of that, yup, to be expected. But a WW who's doing everything in her power to "fix" the sexual relationship and a BH who's not able to see it for what it is; that's not something that was on my "A recovery list".

 

BTW, don't know if that's your car or not, but I have an XJ. Love it. I leased it years ago because I was terrified of it falling into a million pieces while driving it down the highway; it's been a fantastic car, bought it off lease a few years ago and have had almost 0 problems with it. Tata apparently knows how to make a good car.

[rxmstudio]

I'm a bw and I could tell a nearly identical tale. Sex was great until we got married and then the rejections began which was humiliating and degrading, so I gave up. Then he cheated on me after 20+ years and blamed it on me, citing, of course, a "sexless marriage." Isn't that special? I understand it, at this point, to have been a part of a big, long-term mind f***. Yeah, sex is great now. But what he used it to do to me won't really go away.

[Marc878]

Yup, and I'm not upset about the time it's taking, I just never expected THIS to be a problem. This was the one aspect of myself that was constant, the one thing I could always depend on, sex always cleared my mind and I was totally focused on what what happening, right now, and not the future/past. I'm not saying you're not right, I'm sure you are, but I just didn't expect this part of it. The pain from the betrayal, the lack of trust, the lost innocence. All of that, yup, to be expected. But a WW who's doing everything in her power to "fix" the sexual relationship and a BH who's not able to see it for what it is; that's not something that was on my "A recovery list".

 

BTW, don't know if that's your car or not, but I have an XJ. Love it. I leased it years ago because I was terrified of it falling into a million pieces while driving it down the highway; it's been a fantastic car, bought it off lease a few years ago and have had almost 0 problems with it. Tata apparently knows how to make a good car.

 

Yep, it is. Mine is an 04, I have close to 60k on it. Very few issues.

 

The biggest problem I have is Thursday I got my 6th speeding ticket.

[harrybrown]

OT-

 

what did she tell you when she admitted she did things with him that she did not do with you and could you believe what she said? Did she tell you why and what does she think about then and now?

 

Does she wish is was him still?

 

How would she deal with you having an A and doing many things with the OW?

 

Would that even bother her?

 

I hope she has an honest discussion with you about what she felt then and what she feels now, especially regarding the OM.

 

Would she write it out for you and take a polly, because she has lied to you in the past?

 

what did she want, why and what does she want now?

 

Is there anything she can do to show you she is protecting the marriage and you by doing something negative to the OM?

 

She spent a lot of effort and thought in the A. Maybe she can do something now with her smart mind and efforts to help the OM lose his job or exposed to his world? She has a smart brain, she should be able to do something dramatic.

 

Hope she will help with the mind games she put in your head.

[elaine567]

I don't think anything you are feeling here is "wrong".

If a woman had never had oral from her husband, as he didn't like it, not something he does, not interested... etc and suddenly after an affair where he gave the OW oral in abundance, he suddenly decides to give his wife oral, how would she feel?

She may think, "At last I am getting oral, he is actually giving me something I want...", but she is not going to be overjoyed due to the circumstances, is she?

[Oldman66]

Overtaxed; I am going to put this into a car analogy. First let me explain Valet Mode; A mode on a car that prevents valets from using the full horsepower or abilities of a high performance vehicle.

 

14 years ago you bought what you thought was a beautiful high performance sports cat, (insert dream car of choice) I'll use a 'vette for an example. You have taken care of this car beautifully. You have done all the maintenance on the car and been proud to show it off. You were confused at first because you thought you had the full on race version but finally decided that apparently you only got the 4 cylinder version from the performance that you got. I.E. you got the 125 hp model NOT the 500 hp model you ordered. This model had been test driven a few miles but was "Brand New".

 

Now you have found out that the car of your dreams WAS the full on race version but you were ALLOWED only to drive it in the "valet mode" Now you know that this car, your prized possession, was only a rental car. You know that she apparently thought the AP was "Mario Andretti" so she let him take her out and enter her in the Le Man's 24 hr road race.

 

Now she will let you finally play in the full on race mode BUT only at the amature local races because you are still not "Mario". What has happened is you are trying to match "performances" against when "Mario" raced her at Le Mans.

 

The thing is Pride of Ownership is gone. She is just a rental that denied you her full capabilities and is only now letting you try her out for real. However she has ALREADY been raced and hard, "Mario" won trophies and you are trying to compete against that. YOU will NEVER out trophy "Mario"

 

In other words the sex with her AP was TROPHY SEX and you are getting what ever was left over. YOU CANNOT beat affair sex, it was forbidden and MUCH more exciting. The first Trophy is always the best. She is now throwing you some boners to try and keep you. She is desperate and hopes you will settle for 2nd best so she can keep what she threw away.

 

Just my opinion your milage may vary.

[Overtaxed]

OT-

 

what did she tell you when she admitted she did things with him that she did not do with you and could you believe what she said? Did she tell you why and what does she think about then and now?

 

Does she wish is was him still?

 

How would she deal with you having an A and doing many things with the OW?

 

Would that even bother her?

 

I hope she has an honest discussion with you about what she felt then and what she feels now, especially regarding the OM.

 

Would she write it out for you and take a polly, because she has lied to you in the past?

 

what did she want, why and what does she want now?

 

Is there anything she can do to show you she is protecting the marriage and you by doing something negative to the OM?

 

She spent a lot of effort and thought in the A. Maybe she can do something now with her smart mind and efforts to help the OM lose his job or exposed to his world? She has a smart brain, she should be able to do something dramatic.

 

Hope she will help with the mind games she put in your head.

 

She said it was the situation. I can believe that, but I don't think that's all of it, no. Also, she's said she never wanted me to see her that way. I can also believe this, but, again, doubt it's the whole story.

 

I don't think she wishes it was still him, no. His "true colors" showed pretty quickly following the A, I honestly think she's sorry she ever met him. I could be wrong, but that's what she's shown me and what I read from how she talks about it now.

 

I have no idea how she'd deal with it; not well I suspect? Me doing something sexual with the OW that I hadn't done with her would not be a problem, she knows that's who I am, I've never hidden that from her, and I think she'd expect it from me if I had an A. The only thing I can compare it to is me getting with an OW and talking about having children with her, that's the only thing that I think can compare; something she wants from me that I've told her isn't possible and then, suddenly, another woman enters, and it's very possible and I start IVF with her.

 

She has written it out, I don't need a poly, I had enough evidence to know what I needed from a very early point after d-day. The stuff that mattered to me was laid bare, having her disclose it was just a step to show me that I could start to trust her again.

 

I could get the OM fired in a heartbeat if I wanted to. I'm very well connected to his workplace and they have one of the strictest morality clauses in the world. Couple that with irrefutable evidence that he was having an A during work hours? Game over. Thing is, I never wanted (still don't) to do that. I know his wife, we talk, I've met his kids. They don't deserve that, even less than they deserve a father/husband who does this to them.

[knabe]

She said it was the situation. I can believe that, but I don't think that's all of it, no. Also, she's said she never wanted me to see her that way. I can also believe this, but, again, doubt it's the whole story.

 

I don't think she wishes it was still him, no. His "true colors" showed pretty quickly following the A, I honestly think she's sorry she ever met him. I could be wrong, but that's what she's shown me and what I read from how she talks about it now.

 

I have no idea how she'd deal with it; not well I suspect? Me doing something sexual with the OW that I hadn't done with her would not be a problem, she knows that's who I am, I've never hidden that from her, and I think she'd expect it from me if I had an A. The only thing I can compare it to is me getting with an OW and talking about having children with her, that's the only thing that I think can compare; something she wants from me that I've told her isn't possible and then, suddenly, another woman enters, and it's very possible and I start IVF with her.

 

She has written it out, I don't need a poly, I had enough evidence to know what I needed from a very early point after d-day. The stuff that mattered to me was laid bare, having her disclose it was just a step to show me that I could start to trust her again.

 

I could get the OM fired in a heartbeat if I wanted to. I'm very well connected to his workplace and they have one of the strictest morality clauses in the world. Couple that with irrefutable evidence that he was having an A during work hours? Game over. Thing is, I never wanted (still don't) to do that. I know his wife, we talk, I've met his kids. They don't deserve that, even less than they deserve a father/husband who does this to them.

 

I admire you for not letting your ego Trump your character.

[GoldenR]

On the other hand.. she was more sexual with the om ... which I believe was performance syndrome rather than change in sexual Appetite.

 

 

What is performance syndrome?

[GoldenR]

I do not think overtaxed thinks the om was a better lover...

I think he is worried that his wife is now doing things sexually she did not do before.

 

So he's worried about the why behind it.

 

He has always been hd and she wasn't... so he adjusted to suit her.

 

And now she is trying to do the same thing for him. So she is more sexual than she has ever been. It has nothing... I repeat ... nothing to do with the om...

 

This ^^^^^ All this right here would drive me crazy. I'd probably be worse than OT. I'd be thinking that it took another man to awaken my W sexually, and now she wants to do the things with me that she learned to like with the OM.

 

OT, I feel for you, brother. The mind is a hard thing to control. Idk how I'd handle it....maybe I'd just treat sex with her like its just that ...sex. Just go at it without thinking....and with time, hopefully it would all work itself out.

[Mrs. John Adams]

i will pm you

[Mrs. John Adams]

This ^^^^^ All this right here would drive me crazy. I'd probably be worse than OT. I'd be thinking that it took another man to awaken my W sexually, and now she wants to do the things with me that she learned to like with the OM.

 

OT, I feel for you, brother. The mind is a hard thing to control. Idk how I'd handle it....maybe I'd just treat sex with her like its just that ...sex. Just go at it without thinking....and with time, hopefully it would all work itself out.

 

it did not take anther man to sexually awaken her...the other man did not sexually awaken her...

 

you have mail

[Marc878]

it did not take anther man to sexually awaken her...the other man did not sexually awaken her...

 

you have mail

 

I don't get this either can you explain?

[Mrs. John Adams]

Mrs OT was not sexually "awakened" by the om.....

 

What she is doing now is her very best to show OT she loves him. SHe knows sex is very important to him....she knows he has also wished she was more sexual. So she is doing her best to make him him happy.

 

She loves her husband very much and she is doing everything she knows to do to make him happy. OT knows this.....and has reiterated that this issue he is talking about is not his wife's...but it is HIS.

 

He is confused by his OWN reaction to her becoming more sexual for him. He knows why she is doing it....that is not the problem. The problem is HIS reaction to it.

 

Do I have this right OT?

[Overtaxed]

Mrs OT was not sexually "awakened" by the om.....

 

What she is doing now is her very best to show OT she loves him. SHe knows sex is very important to him....she knows he has also wished she was more sexual. So she is doing her best to make him him happy.

 

She loves her husband very much and she is doing everything she knows to do to make him happy. OT knows this.....and has reiterated that this issue he is talking about is not his wife's...but it is HIS.

 

He is confused by his OWN reaction to her becoming more sexual for him. He knows why she is doing it....that is not the problem. The problem is HIS reaction to it.

 

Do I have this right OT?

 

Pretty much, yes. This one isn't her at all, it's me, and I'm totally confused by my reaction to it. It feels like it should be perfect, like this is where we should have been years ago. The actions are right, the words are right, it's just that my reaction isn't right, the question linger. I guess, end of the day, the most important question is "Why did it take this to get here" because it's not like my W didn't know the stuff you laid out above (all true) about me. But, no, I absolutely do not think it was a "sexual awakening", she'd done these things before with other people, and had told me that pretty early on in our relationship. The hurtful thing is "she just was more into him than you" does seem to be a reasonable answer. Is it THE answer though? Even if it is, I don't think it's the entire answer, there's more to it; because, even if that were true at the time of the A, it wasn't true when we met (and it's not like these things changed through our relationship, she presented herself as this person at the beginning of our relationship and stayed that way throughout, she presented something very different to the AP).

 

But, your absolutely right, the spirit of this thread is not what she did, it's also not what she's doing wrong. It's why can't I just let it go and be happy with it. I have every right to be upset about the A, but I don't feel like I have any right to not be happy with where we are today, and that's what's bugging the crap out of me; she's taking the actions, the thing I always say is most important, and I'm stuck questioning the "why" and not experiencing them as I should be.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Pretty much, yes. This one isn't her at all, it's me, and I'm totally confused by my reaction to it. It feels like it should be perfect, like this is where we should have been years ago. The actions are right, the words are right, it's just that my reaction isn't right, the question linger. I guess, end of the day, the most important question is "Why did it take this to get here" because it's not like my W didn't know the stuff you laid out above (all true) about me. But, no, I absolutely do not think it was a "sexual awakening", she'd done these things before with other people, and had told me that pretty early on in our relationship. The hurtful thing is "she just was more into him than you" does seem to be a reasonable answer. Is it THE answer though? Even if it is, I don't think it's the entire answer, there's more to it; because, even if that were true at the time of the A, it wasn't true when we met (and it's not like these things changed through our relationship, she presented herself as this person at the beginning of our relationship and stayed that way throughout, she presented something very different to the AP).

 

But, your absolutely right, the spirit of this thread is not what she did, it's also not what she's doing wrong. It's why can't I just let it go and be happy with it. I have every right to be upset about the A, but I don't feel like I have any right to not be happy with where we are today, and that's what's bugging the crap out of me; she's taking the actions, the thing I always say is most important, and I'm stuck questioning the "why" and not experiencing them as I should be.

 

Thank you

 

I thought I had it right

 

Ot I think at 5 months out you have every right to feel this way.

 

You are expecting so much from yourself and like I have said before... you are a fixer.. a doer... an action kind of guy.

 

Cut yourself some slack...

 

Please!

 

Mrs ot is doing what she believes is the right thing.. and she is only accountable to you... and if you are satisfied with her progress... that's all that counts.

 

Maybe some therapy for you to sort through this little hiccup in your reaction?

 

You guys are doing great...

[QuietDan]

Tastes change. Perhaps, what you use to want and desire isn't what you currently want and desire. Certain acts, aren't what they use to be... If you don'tdeeply care about a person, it is easier to use them as a sexual toy and object. When you do care, certain acts may be inherently riskier. Or, in the past, you didn't care if your partner was really enjoying it or not. Now you do...

There is something to be said for stable and familiar when things are chaotic and changing.

Performance issues.... ???

If so... I suspect you want and desire the woman you fell in love with. The whole package. With the sexual inhibitions/issues...???

Did the woman you married ever really exist...

Do you feel like you are cheating on her with who your wife is now? Is she really into doing these things now with you? Or, is she, just doing what is necessary to keep you?

Is this is your real wife, doing things with you and the other man that is way outside her comfort zone? Perhaps you love her so much, you are concerned that she is in a situation were she feels emotionally blackmailed into doing things with you she really doesn't want to do or enjoy.

I suppose, you might find yourself wondering if she is doing what she is doing because she is turned on and really enjoys doing it with you? Or if she is doing it out of fear and desperation? She might say she enjoys it a truly into it and wants that type of sex with you, but, is she lying?

What is real? What is a lie?

It will take a lot of reassurance from her, watching her and her reactions, and time to sort as all of this out.

[GoldenR]

Ok.....so OT, what's in your head is the thought that she's doing it not bc she really wants to, but bc she knows that you want her to want to do it, right?

[knabe]

Ok.....so OT, what's in your head is the thought that she's doing it not bc she really wants to, but bc she knows that you want her to want to do it, right?

 

NOOOO

 

What's in his head is wondering why HE is now second guessing and holding back and not able to enjoy.

 

Men, this s not that hard to decipher. You have to work really hard to make his wife's desire to meet his needs evil. Sheesh.

[GoldenR]

NOOOO

 

What's in his head is wondering why HE is now second guessing and holding back and not able to enjoy.

 

Men, this s not that hard to decipher. You have to work really hard to make his wife's desire to meet his needs evil. Sheesh.

 

No evil implications at all in what I said. I think if she was to do that, it would be out of love.

Edited June 24, 2017 by GoldenR

[Mrs. John Adams]

This is not that complicated

 

Mrs ot is going above and beyond to make him feel loved

 

His issue is not what she is doing but rather his response to it

 

She is now doing all the things he ever wanted... but his response to it is diffferent than he ever imagined

 

Look we are friends .... I am friends with both ot and his wife...

 

Trust me on this

 

This is completely and totally about his response to her