Turning the tables [after an affair]

[road]

Pretty much, yes. This one isn't her at all, it's me, and I'm totally confused by my reaction to it. It feels like it should be perfect, like this is where we should have been years ago. The actions are right, the words are right, it's just that my reaction isn't right, the question linger. I guess, end of the day, the most important question is "Why did it take this to get here" because it's not like my W didn't know the stuff you laid out above (all true) about me. But, no, I absolutely do not think it was a "sexual awakening", she'd done these things before with other people, and had told me that pretty early on in our relationship. The hurtful thing is "she just was more into him than you" does seem to be a reasonable answer. Is it THE answer though? Even if it is, I don't think it's the entire answer, there's more to it; because, even if that were true at the time of the A, it wasn't true when we met (and it's not like these things changed through our relationship, she presented herself as this person at the beginning of our relationship and stayed that way throughout, she presented something very different to the AP).

 

But, your absolutely right, the spirit of this thread is not what she did, it's also not what she's doing wrong. It's why can't I just let it go and be happy with it. I have every right to be upset about the A, but I don't feel like I have any right to not be happy with where we are today, and that's what's bugging the crap out of me; she's taking the actions, the thing I always say is most important, and I'm stuck questioning the "why" and not experiencing them as I should be.

 

If it is where you want to be now then you need to let go of how

you got there. Be happy you are there now.

[QuietDan]

It is about the relationship and the meaning of sex to each person in the relationship. It is about the structure and value that each person associates with the different types of intimacy.

If sexual intimacy has never had any value to one person other than a commodity to be bartered with....

The other person is going to struggle with the emotional connection value and the fundamental meaning of the relationship. How do you value something that the other person in the relationship puts no value on?

A major part of the reaction here sounds like trying to come to terms with the long term emotional effect of being forced to endure a Low Sex/ Border line sexless marraige. Most guys eventually bury and hide the anxiety, frustration, anger, depression that they endure. It takes a long time to dissapate those feelings. I have read that if the formerly low desire partner recognizes the long term pain the other person suffered, and routinely apologises, the anger and bitterness from the past dissapates faster. Of course the problem is, if they have to be told to recognize and appologize, is it real?

[Overtaxed]

If it is where you want to be now then you need to let go of how

you got there. Be happy you are there now.

 

Exactly what I'm trying to get myself to do. Sex is awesome, it was always good, but it feels finally like we're there; the place where you can really express yourself intimately. And yet, I'm not there entirely, and it's bothering me because I can't let go of the "how we got here" part. I'm pretty sure, intellectually, that the way we got here is because we both, after d-day, had to change big things in the relationship and we're both working harder than we ever have at it. That's not just sex, but a whole lot of things that lead to better emotional intimacy (what the W felt she lacked) and better communication.

 

I know that intellectually. She's said pretty much that to me. And I really don't believe, as Cathy said, this was a "sexual awakening" for her. I think this was more a forcing function, it made us both look at what we have and decide "Is this what we want" and if not, what changes do we need to make.

 

Intellectual side, actions (from her), what she's said to me about it.. All lining up, and make me feel like this is what she wants. That's what's making me as mad as anything, I always feel like (and say to others) that you should trust the actions and see if they line up with the words. And they do here, they really do, I guess I just can't "trust" them yet because of the lingering feeling of "compelling" them.

 

And, I think guys here would agree, especially with their wives, the thought of "compelled sex" or compelled sexual acts is about as "sexy" as running your manhood through a cheese grater. I say a lot of negative things about men, because, as one, I know that I, and many of the people I know, aren't exactly what women think we are, and we'll go to extraordinary lengths without the slightest regard for who we hurt for sex. Most of us have done it. And even those who haven't, they can see the line and stepped close to it (do I say "I love you" to have sex tonight... No, because I value my word too much, but, even if that's you, you can easily see how stepping over that line is so tempting for many men). But, the thing I never hear from men, have never even heard joked about from men, we HATE the concept of having sex with someone when they don't want to. It's completely against our nature, as much as we might con women for sex, we also are deeply protective of women and do NOT want to see them hurt. This, what I'm feeling, borders on that, and it touches that part of my psyche; sure, it seems fine, but is it really fine with her? Because, if not, given our situation, it starts to look far too close to "forced" than I think almost any guy would ever want with his wife.

[Hecan]

Too funny. I have an XJ too. About to sell ( H surprised me with something else). Offered it to my teenager but was declined.

 

OT, What you said above is exactly the things my husband has told me. ( I didn't step out, he did ) but he worries about exactly the things you said. I am his wife and in our case he is my only. Things I denied for a long time were suddenly on the menu and he worried about the why. You know what. It's because we had nothing to lose and wanted to give this OUR all. He said not too long ago while we were laughing our fool heads off about something that he just wishes he could help one couple not to have to go through what we have. But you know what, I don't think it would have made a difference. We had to to get where we are and he still worries about it. We've got double the years of you guys. You are gonna make it and its gonna be worth it !!

 

As has been said but I will reiterate. Give yourselves some time and give yourself a break.

.

[QuietDan]

Exactly what I'm trying to get myself to do. Sex is awesome, it was always good, but it feels finally like we're there; the place where you can really express yourself intimately. And yet, I'm not there entirely, and it's bothering me because I can't let go of the "how we got here" part. I'm pretty sure, intellectually, that the way we got here is because we both, after d-day, had to change big things in the relationship and we're both working harder than we ever have at it. That's not just sex, but a whole lot of things that lead to better emotional intimacy (what the W felt she lacked) and better communication.

 

I know that intellectually. She's said pretty much that to me. And I really don't believe, as Cathy said, this was a "sexual awakening" for her. I think this was more a forcing function, it made us both look at what we have and decide "Is this what we want" and if not, what changes do we need to make.

 

Intellectual side, actions (from her), what she's said to me about it.. All lining up, and make me feel like this is what she wants. That's what's making me as mad as anything, I always feel like (and say to others) that you should trust the actions and see if they line up with the words. And they do here, they really do, I guess I just can't "trust" them yet because of the lingering feeling of "compelling" them.

 

And, I think guys here would agree, especially with their wives, the thought of "compelled sex" or compelled sexual acts is about as "sexy" as running your manhood through a cheese grater. I say a lot of negative things about men, because, as one, I know that I, and many of the people I know, aren't exactly what women think we are, and we'll go to extraordinary lengths without the slightest regard for who we hurt for sex. Most of us have done it. And even those who haven't, they can see the line and stepped close to it (do I say "I love you" to have sex tonight... No, because I value my word too much, but, even if that's you, you can easily see how stepping over that line is so tempting for many men). But, the thing I never hear from men, have never even heard joked about from men, we HATE the concept of having sex with someone when they don't want to. It's completely against our nature, as much as we might con women for sex, we also are deeply protective of women and do NOT want to see them hurt. This, what I'm feeling, borders on that, and it touches that part of my psyche; sure, it seems fine, but is it really fine with her? Because, if not, given our situation, it starts to look far too close to "forced" than I think almost any guy would ever want with his wife.

 

Well said.

[road]

Exactly what I'm trying to get myself to do. Sex is awesome, it was always good, but it feels finally like we're there; the place where you can really express yourself intimately. And yet, I'm not there entirely, and it's bothering me because I can't let go of the "how we got here" part. I'm pretty sure, intellectually, that the way we got here is because we both, after d-day, had to change big things in the relationship and we're both working harder than we ever have at it. That's not just sex, but a whole lot of things that lead to better emotional intimacy (what the W felt she lacked) and better communication.

 

I know that intellectually. She's said pretty much that to me. And I really don't believe, as Cathy said, this was a "sexual awakening" for her. I think this was more a forcing function, it made us both look at what we have and decide "Is this what we want" and if not, what changes do we need to make.

 

Intellectual side, actions (from her), what she's said to me about it.. All lining up, and make me feel like this is what she wants. That's what's making me as mad as anything, I always feel like (and say to others) that you should trust the actions and see if they line up with the words. And they do here, they really do, I guess I just can't "trust" them yet because of the lingering feeling of "compelling" them.

 

And, I think guys here would agree, especially with their wives, the thought of "compelled sex" or compelled sexual acts is about as "sexy" as running your manhood through a cheese grater. I say a lot of negative things about men, because, as one, I know that I, and many of the people I know, aren't exactly what women think we are, and we'll go to extraordinary lengths without the slightest regard for who we hurt for sex. Most of us have done it. And even those who haven't, they can see the line and stepped close to it (do I say "I love you" to have sex tonight... No, because I value my word too much, but, even if that's you, you can easily see how stepping over that line is so tempting for many men). But, the thing I never hear from men, have never even heard joked about from men, we HATE the concept of having sex with someone when they don't want to. It's completely against our nature, as much as we might con women for sex, we also are deeply protective of women and do NOT want to see them hurt. This, what I'm feeling, borders on that, and it touches that part of my psyche; sure, it seems fine, but is it really fine with her? Because, if not, given our situation, it starts to look far too close to "forced" than I think almost any guy would ever want with his wife.

 

There are countless reasons why your WW would not put out

the sex that you wanted.

 

There are countless reasons why your WW all of a sudden had

no problem doing it all and often for the OM.

 

Why is your WW giving to you what she gave to the OM?

 

This question is important. I have seen many a WW shut down and

refuse to do the things she did with the OM yet still refuse to do them

with her BH post D day.

 

I have seen many a WW increase frequency post D day only to slowly

revert back to the sex levels pre affair and pre D day.

 

Recovery is a two to five year process. No can say how successful

you will be. Sometimes a BH after years trying to recover wind up

giving up. Not to be a Debbie Downer.

 

Just keep an open mind and an open eye and let this journey take

you for the ride. Because that is the only way you will find out where

you will land.

[Mrs. John Adams]

It was not like his wife did not PUT OUT...she did...she was always sexual....she was not a highly sexed as he was...but she was certainly sexual and met his needs.

 

This is not like...now she puts out and before she didn't.

 

OT...I think you need to explain this for some people to understand...becasue their interpretation of what you are saying is completley inacurate

[Bufo]

I see a potential problem here. If Mrs JA is right, and you are not, then if you get into repeated discussions with her about what you currently think, she may come to the conclusion of "why bother" I'm damnedmifmimdo and damned if I don't.

 

I'm having some difficulty articulating this thought. But would it be possible in my scenario that she'd think not enough adventure romance and presence left him frustrated and now lots of these causes doubts in his mind.

 

You are not too far out from DDay. Maybe what you are experiencing sexually will be he new normal. I think that would,be easier to live with than reversion to,the old normal. I'm suggesting you go with the flow now and see if it becomes the new normal for you two. There are worse outcomes after all.

 

There are boundaries in marital sex that go unspoken. I know for a fact that my wife's boundaries were developed from her experiences before we met. Yes, it sort of feels like I got the short end of the stick, but I do respect her boundaries. If, as Mrs JA says, your wife has realized that she should try to fulfill your desires out of love, that's a good thing. She probably knows and has good reason to fear that she was close to losing you due to her A. She's pushing the envelope to avoid that result. I suggest not doing anything that would make her feel,her efforts were pointless.

[Overtaxed]

I see a potential problem here. If Mrs JA is right, and you are not, then if you get into repeated discussions with her about what you currently think, she may come to the conclusion of "why bother" I'm damnedmifmimdo and damned if I don't.

 

I'm having some difficulty articulating this thought. But would it be possible in my scenario that she'd think not enough adventure romance and presence left him frustrated and now lots of these causes doubts in his mind.

 

You are not too far out from DDay. Maybe what you are experiencing sexually will be he new normal. I think that would,be easier to live with than reversion to,the old normal. I'm suggesting you go with the flow now and see if it becomes the new normal for you two. There are worse outcomes after all.

 

There are boundaries in marital sex that go unspoken. I know for a fact that my wife's boundaries were developed from her experiences before we met. Yes, it sort of feels like I got the short end of the stick, but I do respect her boundaries. If, as Mrs JA says, your wife has realized that she should try to fulfill your desires out of love, that's a good thing. She probably knows and has good reason to fear that she was close to losing you due to her A. She's pushing the envelope to avoid that result. I suggest not doing anything that would make her feel,her efforts were pointless.

 

Yup, exactly my concern. I told her this is important to me, she's doing it, and now I'm not responding correctly. What message does that send? To me, it would send a message that "even though I asked for this, it's not what I really want", which, in this case, isn't right at all. I just didn't expect it to be so hard (this part), I thought this would fix itself the second she started to react differently and it didn't. I think time and experience is probably the right answer here, I need more time and I need to come to see through experience that this isn't compelled or forced and then I suspect my viewpoint will change. But I do worry that "Nothing is ever enough" or "This is pointless" runs through her head sometimes; which isn't the case at all, it's just that I'm struggling, not that she's doing something wrong.

 

Worse fates? I'm not sure I can think of a better fate than having this become a new normal. It's literally everything I wanted for the ~13 years we've been together. If you asked me when we met to describe your "dream" sex life, this would be it. That's what's so confusing, I'm the kind of person who puts a lot of thought into the things I want, when I get them, I rarely think "well, that's not what I wanted at all". I'd say I "know myself" pretty well sexually, and I know the things that were missing with my W. Now they are there, now it "looks right" and yet it doesn't feel right yet. If this has happened without an A, I sincerely doubt I'd be on here questioning things; I told her, this is what I always wanted for "us" in that aspect of our relationship. It's just not causing the right response in me, which led to the original post; I don't understand what's going on in my head, something I'm not used to!

[elaine567]

YOU think it is all too good to be true, and usually when we get that feeling we are usually right, it IS too good to be true.

So we look for the hidden agenda, the ulterior motive, the small print, the bad intent...

We cannot accept such "good luck" at face value, we need to analyse it carefully as we do not want to look a fool.

Hence why you cannot really relax and enjoy your "good fortune", your gut and your brain won't let you.

 

You KNOW that there is a lot more to this, there is a huge back story here, so you cannot just lie back and trust that all will now be well.

[road]

Worse fates? I'm not sure I can think of a better fate than having this become a new normal. It's literally everything I wanted for the ~13 years we've been together. If you asked me when we met to describe your "dream" sex life, this would be it. That's what's so confusing, I'm the kind of person who puts a lot of thought into the things I want, when I get them, I rarely think "well, that's not what I wanted at all". I'd say I "know myself" pretty well sexually, and I know the things that were missing with my W. Now they are there, now it "looks right" and yet it doesn't feel right yet. If this has happened without an A, I sincerely doubt I'd be on here questioning things; I told her, this is what I always wanted for "us" in that aspect of our relationship. It's just not causing the right response in me, which led to the original post; I don't understand what's going on in my head, something I'm not used to!

 

 

Conflict of getting what you want and knowing that the OM got it all

from your WW and before you did.

 

It makes you confused. You want it. Yet you want to be treated

better then the OM got which is impossible.

 

The only thing that you can do is to have sex, let time heal your

conflicted feelings. Eventually thoughts of the OM and what happened

in the affair will fade with time.

[Overtaxed]

YOU think it is all too good to be true, and usually when we get that feeling we are usually right, it IS too good to be true.

So we look for the hidden agenda, the ulterior motive, the small print, the bad intent...

We cannot accept such "good luck" at face value, we need to analyse it carefully as we do not want to look a fool.

Hence why you cannot really relax and enjoy your "good fortune", your gut and your brain won't let you.

 

You KNOW that there is a lot more to this, there is a huge back story here, so you cannot just lie back and trust that all will now be well.

 

Yup, that's certainly how I feel. If this has happened without an A, I wouldn't question it. But, as many know, after an A, you start to "dig in" on everything, why is he/she saying/doing these things? It's an endless analysis of what's going on in your life because, during the A, you were so blind to what was "really happening" you become hyper aware and question things that would seem to be "fine" or great that you never would have given a 2nd thought to before.

 

I cannot just lie back and trust. But that's exactly what I need to do. Hence the conflict. I know it's just a mental battle, and I know that the right answer is "take it at face value and see what happens". I do think the answer is just "time" and consistency (in both our actions towards one another; dealing with each other in this new manner). As you've probably seen from my other posts, "time" and "let it work itself out" aren't exactly my strong suits.

[Mrs. John Adams]

and i can only tell you what she told me

 

I am going to become the woman he always wanted. I am going to do everything I can to show him how much I want him and our marriage.

 

Thats sounds pretty clear to me.

I did the EXACT same thing.

 

It was almost as if I wanted to make love to John to shove the horrible pictures from his brain....to prove my love and that I wanted him. I was willing to do anything.

 

It may not make sense to you...but i get it. It is not too good to be true...there is no ulterior motive. It is this simple....

[understand50]

OT,

 

Trust will come. It does take time. Trust is what you are lacking, and you are over analyzing to some extent. Your wife is trying, she may not get full remorse right now, but she is working to get there. This is half the battle. You need to accept the progress you both have made, and accept that while things are not fully to your liking they will get better with work. You wife is sleeping with you because she has a deep need to. She wants to connect, it is not forced. I think we sometimes forget the damage done on both sides, as you are suffering, so is she. You are just starting to learn to trust again. Give it time, work on it, let yourself go when you can, and remind yourself of what the goal is, a new and better relationship. A wife who will stay and put in the hard work of reconciliation is worth it. This whole process is not a straight line, nor is it easy. When you and she overcome this, think of the reward. Maybe that is the key, when you are down, think of the reward to you and her when you both overcome all of this.

 

I wish you luck....

[SummerDreams]

Overtaxed hello, it's weird talking to you because I spent last week in my free time reading your other thread and with my mind clear I am finally giving you my opinion.

 

Imo, your W always had a low sex drive combined with the "good girls should not like wild sex syndrom" that many women have. I don't know which one happened first or the percentage of these, they could be 50-50, 70-30 etc.

After her A you communicated with her that sex is a way for you to receive and express love. Her guilt and her major desire to save her marriage made her throw the " good girls should not like wild sex syndrom" out the window justifying it by "it's more important to keep my marriage than my morals". So she let herself become more sexually engaged giving you what you wanted.

 

Here is the key part though; her low sex drive has not left her. It's still there and it will always be. There is no low sex drive person who has an epiphany one day and starts asking for more sex and vice versa (at least when there is no medical reason). Your wife is faking her "sex freedom" with the good purpose to please you. If this was her true self why would she wait 13 or so years to show it?

That being said you are right to be concerned but your reason for it is wrong; imo once the A memory fades away and her resentment for you for never have wanted kids gets triggered by a random event, she will become her old sexual self again. I will even take it further and say that she will have another reason to resent you when this happens: "pushing" her to become that sexual creature she never wanted to be.

 

I want to comment on two more things from your other thread if you want to hear them:

1. Enjoying sex when it happens does not make a low sex drive person want it more.

One can make the best cakes in the world but it doesn't necessarily mean they like to eat them as well.

2. This is a personal experience that is very recent to me and I have not talked about it here but I want to share it in order to help you or other readers. For 7 years I have been trying to convince my BF to have a kid but he was always reluctant due to financial issues, he didn't feel he would be a good parent, he wanted us to know each other better etc.

 

His refusing something I (had convinced myself I) wanted more than anything made me resentful towards him. I was feeling he could not understand my need and my mind was stuck to that. My life goal had become to convince him to accept to have a kid with me (I would never get pregnant "by mistake", I wanted him to want it). After almost 7 years we had another heartfelt discussion about it and, I don't know why but I almost convinced him; his words were "we'll do what you want". I spent the next day thinking about it. Now that a huge obstacle was moved from my greatest goal in life, my mind moved towards the next steps. And it was then that I realized that I never wanted to have kids. I dislike kids, I don't have the patience for them, I don't want to sacrifice my time and my needs for a kid.

 

That evening I told my BF my thoughts and he said he knew all along. I was shocked and I asked him, why didn't you tell me? And he said, you had to realize it yourself because otherwise you would not know it and you would hate me for telling you this. My point is that I get the same feeling from your wife; her logic says that she wants a kid because this is the "normal" thing for a woman to want but her heart likes her life and life style like it is and she does not want to change it. I am willing to bet that if you told her today "I am willing to try for a kid" she will back up and see clearly this is not what she wants. I bet that what she has always wanted subconsciously was to make you want a kid and your refusion was making her not see clearly that she was the one not fit for this role. I always say that if we want somethimg bad enough we make it happen. Instead she married man who was clear from day 1 he wanted no kids. This shows something.

 

Having said these two things, I hope I have helped you in some way. Please continue posting and I wish you luck

Edited June 30, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[Jersey born raised]

To echo Mrs Adams,

 

You want an emotional response intertwined with the physical act of intercourse. Your wife seems incapable of this. She can do one or the other but not at the same time. You hate the fact when intercourse occurs her only thought is "is am doing it right for him?".

 

I recall another female poster from another board from several years ago who could be your wife. I don't think she comminted adultery. She was asexual but very sexual with her husband. She was always seeking new ways to "sex" him. Yet, he felt like a pig having sex with her because of her asexuality. He knew she didn't give a damn about sex, it meant nothing. She only actively sought out sex to hold him. Yet she did love him and the marriage.

 

Sound about right?

[Overtaxed]

Overtaxed hello, it's weird talking to you because I spent last week in my free time reading your other thread and with my mind clear I am finally giving you my opinion.

Imo, your W always had a low sex drive combined with the "good girls should not like wild sex syndrom" that many women have. I don't know which one happened first or the percentage of these, they could be 50-50, 70-30 etc. <snip>

 

Wow, what a great post. Sent to to my W for her comments, but I'll tell you what I think.

 

I do think she's faking her sexual freedom. It does bother me a bit, but, IMHO, most women are "faking" that part of themselves for their husband's benefit, men are, in general, more sexual than women. Yes, there are exceptions, but, I think that a lot/most women are "ramping up" their sex drive to meet their husband's desire, just like husband's ramp up other things in themselves (and, probably more commonly, push down things about who they are) to meet their wive's needs and desires.

 

I also agree with your assessment, I'm concerned that if this is so hard for her, she's going to build resentment and wind up unhappy. She says that's not it, and that she doesn't feel that way, but I do wonder, of course, a shift like this after what happened does make you think "why". And "I feel guilty", of course, isn't the why any WS wants when restablishing their sexual connection. She's giving me no reason at all to feel that way, I do want to make that clear. She's never said anything or done anything to make me feel anything other than good and attracted to me in bed since the A, it's in my mind, but, I spend a lot of time thinking things over, and I want to understand it. But, as Mrs JA suggested, I'm trying to "let it go" and see what comes of it, it's wonderful, it finally feels "natural" with her most of the time we're intimate, which, given the situation, is really saying something.

 

To your last point, that's what made me log on from the airport to comment! You totally captured the way I feel about it, and I've actually asked her that very question before; "Is this (children) what you really want". I don't know if you read my story, but middle of last year, we had a financial windfall. Big enough to consider something like IVF and/or the W taking a leave of absence for work. But, when the opportunity was there, and we were in the situation where we could really consider it, I don't recall us talking about it at all; we made plans to buy a new house and move to a new area (something she wanted more than me), not "this is the opportunity for IVF". I do wonder, and I've asked her directly, what do you really want? I don't know if you saw in my story, but the AP had kids already and.. Had a vasectomy! He's more sterile than I am. It just begs the question, not so much of AP selection, but, if this is really what she wants; why do we continue to make decisions that lead us away from that path?

 

IMHO, some of this is the pressure on women. My W does love kids, and would be a great mother, but, the pressure on her (and most women) is something that I'm totally unfamiliar with. Men don't get that pressure at all. So I wonder if the "peer pressure" is driving her to think "this is what I should do" as much as "this is what I want to do". If you look at her choices, from our initial romance through our relationship, into the A and then until today, her actions don't appear to be those of someone who is dying to have children. In fact, the moment it became possible (financially), we went another direction that ensured it wouldn't be possible for long (we spent the money on a new house) and then she shortly thereafter entered into an A, sealing off the "possible" within 2 months of it being feasible for us. To me, that's looks a lot someone who's moving in a direction that doesn't match their words. Not sure I know why; fear, indecision, ambivalence? Or something else entirely?

Edited June 30, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Redact/truncate full quote

[SummerDreams]

For now I will just post a quote that is also my motto: "Whatever never happened is what we never wanted enough".

For the rest you say I will take some time to think about them and get back to reply. And yes, I have read every single post you made in your other thread (took me a week). I remember everything you said very well. I'd like to know your W's comments on my post. Take care.

[knabe]

Overtaxed, please try not to get hung up on "this isn't really who she is; she is doing it to please me" thing. All that will do is short circuit both of your enjoyments.

 

People don't always change. Sometimes they do. This applies to sex drive as well - yes, it does.The bottom line is your wife loves you and she wants to meet your needs. I assume you love her and want to meet her needs.

 

It is as simple as that. Doing some sort of psycho analysis to confirm "she's only faking" or she's only doing it for you basically spits on your relationship in a way. One of the things married people do when they love each other is take care of each other, even if it's not the most awesomest dream of an activity they ever imagined.

 

Did you see The Breakup with Jenifer Aniston and Vince Vaughn? They had this fight where she said, "I want you to WANT to do the dishes!" He answered, "Who WANTS to do dishes?!"

 

Yes, sex is different from dishes. But honestly, the point was that he was willing to do what she needed without resentment. Whether she's always "on" or "horny," your wife is willing to meet your needs, and she is doing it out of sincere love.

 

That is really all there is to it.

 

Now, I can't relate to being a low drive woman. But I think the whole "deep psychological analysis" about who your wife "reall is sexually" is something LD people do to...justify? being low drive, and at this point I only think it will serve to hurt you both. It's self-soothing psychobabble.

 

Just enjoy the intimacy. It's a gift.

[SummerDreams]

@knabe

What you are talking about, compromises between couples, are of course acceptable and needed. The problem here is that this sexual compromise from the OP's wife happened after 13 or so years of marriage and only after the A. This makes all the difference, don't you think?

An example: If there were no punishment for stealing, who is more admirable and worthy person: The one who doesn't steal without knowing there is no punishment or the one who doesn't steal knowing there is no punishment?

[knabe]

@knabe

What you are talking about, compromises between couples, are of course acceptable and needed. The problem here is that this sexual compromise from the OP's wife happened after 13 or so years of marriage and only after the A. This makes all the difference, don't you think?

An example: If there were no punishment for stealing, who is more admirable and worthy person: The one who doesn't steal without knowing there is no punishment or the one who doesn't steal knowing there is no punishment?

 

Actually, in the end, they are not stealing.

 

[] Are LD women threatened by a woman who become higher drive? I'm asking honestly?

 

Trying to take better care of one's partner after hurting them is a GOOD thing.

Edited June 30, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Topical content

[SummerDreams]

Actually, in the end, they are not stealing.

 

[] Are LD women threatened by a woman who become higher drive? I'm asking honestly?

 

Trying to take better care of one's partner after hurting them is a GOOD thing.

 

I don't disagree, it's a great thing that his W is doing her best to please him, but I doubt this is her real self because imo 1. why not do it throughout the 13 years? and 2. a LD person does not become a HD one overnight. My intention is not to hurt the OP but rather to express my honest opinion. If he feels I am hurting him with my words I apologize.

Edited June 30, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[HereNorThere]

Wow, what a great post. Sent to to my W for her comments, but I'll tell you what I think.

 

I do think she's faking her sexual freedom. It does bother me a bit, but, IMHO, most women are "faking" that part of themselves for their husband's benefit, men are, in general, more sexual than women. Yes, there are exceptions, but, I think that a lot/most women are "ramping up" their sex drive to meet their husband's desire, just like husband's ramp up other things in themselves (and, probably more commonly, push down things about who they are) to meet their wive's needs and desires.

 

I also agree with your assessment, I'm concerned that if this is so hard for her, she's going to build resentment and wind up unhappy. She says that's not it, and that she doesn't feel that way, but I do wonder, of course, a shift like this after what happened does make you think "why". And "I feel guilty", of course, isn't the why any WS wants when restablishing their sexual connection. She's giving me no reason at all to feel that way, I do want to make that clear. She's never said anything or done anything to make me feel anything other than good and attracted to me in bed since the A, it's in my mind, but, I spend a lot of time thinking things over, and I want to understand it. But, as Mrs JA suggested, I'm trying to "let it go" and see what comes of it, it's wonderful, it finally feels "natural" with her most of the time we're intimate, which, given the situation, is really saying something.

 

To your last point, that's what made me log on from the airport to comment! You totally captured the way I feel about it, and I've actually asked her that very question before; "Is this (children) what you really want". I don't know if you read my story, but middle of last year, we had a financial windfall. Big enough to consider something like IVF and/or the W taking a leave of absence for work. But, when the opportunity was there, and we were in the situation where we could really consider it, I don't recall us talking about it at all; we made plans to buy a new house and move to a new area (something she wanted more than me), not "this is the opportunity for IVF". I do wonder, and I've asked her directly, what do you really want? I don't know if you saw in my story, but the AP had kids already and.. Had a vasectomy! He's more sterile than I am. It just begs the question, not so much of AP selection, but, if this is really what she wants; why do we continue to make decisions that lead us away from that path?

 

IMHO, some of this is the pressure on women. My W does love kids, and would be a great mother, but, the pressure on her (and most women) is something that I'm totally unfamiliar with. Men don't get that pressure at all. So I wonder if the "peer pressure" is driving her to think "this is what I should do" as much as "this is what I want to do". If you look at her choices, from our initial romance through our relationship, into the A and then until today, her actions don't appear to be those of someone who is dying to have children. In fact, the moment it became possible (financially), we went another direction that ensured it wouldn't be possible for long (we spent the money on a new house) and then she shortly thereafter entered into an A, sealing off the "possible" within 2 months of it being feasible for us. To me, that's looks a lot someone who's moving in a direction that doesn't match their words. Not sure I know why; fear, indecision, ambivalence? Or something else entirely?

 

Holy misconceptions, batman. You are usually pretty realistic about social gender roles and things like that, but on this one you are projecting and rationalizing a lot.

 

First, I'll give you a pass since you've been out of the game, but make no mistake about it, most of the women I know past the age of 35 or so have sex drives that surpass even the most hypersexual men. With a guy, there's at least a (temporary) end through release. Most of the women I know are virtually insatiable. The better you do, the more they want it. Yeah, it sounds awesome, but it's not at all. Chocolate cake is awesome until someone starts force feeding it to you. Lol, older men are NOT more sexual than women at all. Literally the only older men I know that think this way are thirsty married guys who aren't getting it right at home. Dude, these older women are predators, straight up.

 

Here's the thing though, there's a reason why some random stranger off the street can turn your wife out like a casting couch girl and you can barely get some pity sex on your birthday. It doesn't really have much to do with you as much as it has to do with the dynamic of your relationship. Your wife learned early on how to use sex a weapon. She knows it's the one way she has to control you and she disrespects you for it. She did those things with him because she wouldn't do them to you. For whatever reason, she resents you and her punishment was to make sure you were thoroughly humiliated. Why? Because you are a lot easier to control when you are questioning yourself instead of her.

 

The person she was with OM is who she really is. Yes, the madonna-whore complex is very real, but it's usually always related to control. She let this other guy dominate her and she liked it, but she's not going to submit to you in the same way. Chicks are complicated like that.

 

And of course she doesn't want children. Dude, she is a child or at least has the maturity level of one. Please don't tell me you'd consider having children with her now. I mean, that's just crazy. I wouldn't trust her to baby sit my pet turtle, god forbid you have a child with her. She has a long road in front of her if she thinks it's possible to earn back that level of trust. I mean, maybe in 5 years or so with polygraphs and stuff, but otherwise, that would be sooo foolish.

 

You're wife is no snowflake. Just another selfish, horny old woman who denies her husband the sex he wants to control him. Story as old as time, really. I see it every single day in my life. Women with dead bedrooms and begging husbands at home that would drop their drawers for me right now. And I'm not special, but I'm also not their husband.

Edited June 29, 2017 by HereNorThere

[knabe]

OP, I am assuming you don't hate women. Don't let anyone try to get you to hate your wife.

[Cephalopod]

You need to buy yourself a Harley. Don't obsess on the sex anymore. Get out and do the things that bring you joy and stop relying on her too much.