Sex and Marriage..who knew it could be this hard?

[Overtaxed]

His T level was 1005..if I remember correctly. Not really sure how that goes but I remember doc saying that number. The doctor tested for everything so I assume estrogen was tested as well. The doctor told him he had no reason health wise to have a low drive.

 

Physically, he's in good shape. He's not a body builder but he's at a healthy weight and if he doesn't like his body then I do not know anything about it.

 

Cialis works. But, the doctor doesn't like prescribing them to him because he's so young for it.

 

So, if performance issues is the problem. How should I approach This? What should I do?

 

If Cialis works, I'd suggest "more Cialis". It will probably help him get over any PA (performance anxiety) he might have. Then he likely won't need it anymore.

 

Risking the ban hammer here, but Cialis is not a controlled substance, you can buy it in chemical form all over the Internet. And it's cheap as dirt, like 1/100th the cost of the pills (and works just as well). I take it every day at a very low dose, not because I have performance problems, but because it's good for blood flow throughout the body. Probably costs me <100 bucks for years supply.

 

If you can find the blood work, look for "free testosterone". That's the number that matters. The number you gave is total testosterone, and, your right, that's a good number, but, if free is low, it doesn't matter, bound test doesn't do anything, it's free that causes all the sexual side effects. The numbers that are most important are typically total/free test and estrodiol (E2). If total/free test are both high and E2 is also high, you'll have no drive at all. If E2 is really low, no drive either. Most men today have high E2, it's an environmental thing (too much soy). And you'll have the sex drive of a nun with high E2, trust me, I've been there.

[GunslingerRoland]

It sounds like he's had some erections issues? I'll tell you this, it gets in your head real fast if you have that problem even once and makes you not even want to try.

[BelleOfTheBall88]

If Cialis works, I'd suggest "more Cialis". It will probably help him get over any PA (performance anxiety) he might have. Then he likely won't need it anymore.

 

Risking the ban hammer here, but Cialis is not a controlled substance, you can buy it in chemical form all over the Internet. And it's cheap as dirt, like 1/100th the cost of the pills (and works just as well). I take it every day at a very low dose, not because I have performance problems, but because it's good for blood flow throughout the body. Probably costs me <100 bucks for years supply.

 

If you can find the blood work, look for "free testosterone". That's the number that matters. The number you gave is total testosterone, and, your right, that's a good number, but, if free is low, it doesn't matter, bound test doesn't do anything, it's free that causes all the sexual side effects. The numbers that are most important are typically total/free test and estrodiol (E2). If total/free test are both high and E2 is also high, you'll have no drive at all. If E2 is really low, no drive either. Most men today have high E2, it's an environmental thing (too much soy). And you'll have the sex drive of a nun with high E2, trust me, I've been there.

 

Found it on his doctors portal. Free T is 623 and estradiol is 36.2. 1005ng/dl l

Are these normal?

[Overtaxed]

Found it on his doctors portal. Free T is 623 and estradiol is 36.2. 1005ng/dl l

Are these normal?

 

Free T better not be 623! That's a total T number, and it's a bit low, most men feel better in 800-100 range. But it's not terrible either.

 

E2 level is high, I'd usually want that number to be around 15-20. And a few points there makes a big difference!

 

Here's a good article to take a look at:

 

Normal Estradiol Levels in Men

[BelleOfTheBall88]

Free T better not be 623! That's a total T number, and it's a bit low, most men feel better in 800-100 range. But it's not terrible either.

 

E2 level is high, I'd usually want that number to be around 15-20. And a few points there makes a big difference!

 

Here's a good article to take a look at:

 

Normal Estradiol Levels in Men

 

Lol. I may not be reading it right. I don't really understand it. But,I don't think his T is affecting it or the other. I checkedmarked that off.

I think the issue is what a previous poster DKT3 had said..

I always give in. I'm too available.

He obviously has a sex drive...just not a sex drive with me.

He had frequent morning wood. Which is a sign of good T from what I've read.

I just need to become not available...but, I'm not sure how.

[BelleOfTheBall88]

I guess I feel like if I start turning him down that he will notice that I'm trying..and he says if I try to get laid..then it makes him want to do it less. So...I will be trying to hard by turning him down because I have never done it.

[elaine567]

What is his dating history?

Was this a love match or were you just in the right place at the right time when he decided to get married? A rebound maybe?

Has he ever dated a black woman?

[knabe]

I'm going to take a different approach here. Why? Because I was married to your husband (not your actualy husband, but a man just like him).

 

He "just wasn't sexual." He was curious about porn but didn't use it much, and when I was upset by it, he stopped altogether.

 

He didn;t understand my drive or need. It just wasn't important to him, he "just didn't think about it."

 

I stopped being so available. We stopped having sex. Period. There was no need to hunt or need for me to be skinnier or need for more hormones (his levels were always normal).

 

He was just that one in a billion almost asexual male. I wasted most of my 30's and some of my 40's either trying to be per4fect - the perfect woman, the perfect housekeeper, never moody, never unhappy, etc. etc. OR begging for help or sex.

 

It never changed. Never. When he was tired of feeling bad about it, he declared our sex life over.

 

This is not you. Let me say that. This is not you, and the onus is not on you to fix it. Normal men want sex with their wives. And even if they aren't highly sexual, normal spouses meet their partner's needs. Period. Full stop.

 

Honestly, as young as you are, I'd give it an ultimatum (therapy) and a year. Then I'd leave. That is what I should have done.

[BelleOfTheBall88]

What is his dating history?

Was this a love match or were you just in the right place at the right time when he decided to get married? A rebound maybe?

Has he ever dated a black woman?

 

Actually, he was living with another woman when we started dating. I never knew that up until after we were already married.

And no, he's never been with a black woman.

 

He's only been with 3 other women in his life. I'm number 4.

[elaine567]

Did the doctor do a full medical check on your husband or send him to a specialist or was it more about just the testosterone blood tests?

 

Further testing

 

In some cases you may be referred to a specialist for further testing. This might be the case if you are unusually young to be experiencing erectile dysfunction as it's rare in men under 40 years of age.

Erectile dysfunction (impotence) - Diagnosis - NHS Choices

 

[BelleOfTheBall88]

Did the doctor do a full medical check on your husband or send him to a specialist or was it more about just the testosterone blood tests?

 

He was sent to another hospital to have a full blood work check. When it came back normal the doctor had asked me to leave the room and my husband said he asked him if he was attracted to his wife because health wise there is nothing wrong that could be causing it.

[elaine567]

I stopped being so available. We stopped having sex. Period.

 

I am guessing that poor Belle may find the same thing here, she already stopped initiating for a month and at the end of that - just nothing.

 

So what is the story with the other woman he was living with when dating you?

Was sex an issue then in their relationship too?

Did he cheat with you?

Did she throw him out or did he just leave?

Is this a pattern maybe?

Falls out of love/lust, no sex, finds someone else, leaves...

[BelleOfTheBall88]

I am guessing that poor Belle may find the same thing here, she already stopped initiating for a month and at the end of that - just nothing.

 

So what is the story with the other woman he was living with when dating you?

Was sex an issue then in their relationship too?

Did he cheat with you?

Did she throw him out or did he just leave?

Is this a pattern maybe?

Falls out of love/lust, no sex, finds someone else, leaves...

 

He said sex was an issue because she didn't want to have sex. Which is sorta why I wanted to make sure I was available for him.

This is what he told me. They were together for 6 years and he broke up with her and she continued to live there while she saved up money to leave. He said they weren't together while I was with him. I don't know if I believe that but it's whatever..in the past.

[elaine567]

So another sexless relationship...

Was it really her problem or was it his?

Did chronic rejection somehow ruin him, or did she just give up trying...?

[BelleOfTheBall88]

So another sexless relationship...

Was it really her problem or was it his?

Did chronic rejection somehow ruin him, or did she just give up trying...?

 

I will never know the truth. According to him she was in love with his brother. He has fears of me falling in love with his brother too. She didn't want to have sex with him and he said he tried doing everything he could to be what she wanted, but it didn't work. So he gave up.

I've never spoken with her so like I said, I'll never know the truth. But I do know she really did like the brother. He has told me that as well.

[salparadise]

I guess I feel like if I start turning him down that he will notice that I'm trying..and he says if I try to get laid..then it makes him want to do it less. So...I will be trying to hard by turning him down because I have never done it.

 

 

Right, this isn't it. It's a good excuse though because if he could get you to buy into it then it would eliminate the problem of you having expectations.

 

I still think it's psychological. It's impossible to know in exactly what way, and that's why you should get time to a sex therapist. When you said that he hung his head in response to trying role play, I immediately thought that was a major clue. You've heard of the madonna-whore complex wherein a man looses the ability to see his wife and mother of his children in a sexual way. This is also related to having the subconscious beliefs that sex is dirty and shameful, and there's a sharp divergence between sex object and the mother of his children. This change didn't coincide with the birth of the children didi it? I guess it's hard to say since both happened in a fairly narrow time span.

 

The fact that you had an active sex life in the not so distant past tells me it's probably not physical. I reread the original post and i didn't see anything about performance issues. And if he's whacking to porn, then the physical plumbing is working. Performance anxiety could be a factor, I suppose, and cialis/viagra will fix that instantly. It's strange that it went from healthy sex to nearly zero in just a couple of years.

 

You don't think he secretly started taking steroids for body-building do you? That could mess with drive and performance. Not sure if the blood work would've detected it. Probably not, but you should eliminate this as a possibility.

 

Insurance will cover mental health services. The ACA and Mental Health Parity Act mean that, barring a loophole, they pay for MH just like they do for medical services, without limits on visits or higher copays. You should investigate.

[rushed]

Do you know what kind of porn he watches? Gay porn maybe? That would explain a lot.

[Overtaxed]

Right, this isn't it. It's a good excuse though because if he could get you to buy into it then it would eliminate the problem of you having expectations.

 

I still think it's psychological. It's impossible to know in exactly what way, and that's why you should get time to a sex therapist. When you said that he hung his head in response to trying role play, I immediately thought that was a major clue. You've heard of the madonna-whore complex wherein a man looses the ability to see his wife and mother of his children in a sexual way. This is also related to having the subconscious beliefs that sex is dirty and shameful, and there's a sharp divergence between sex object and the mother of his children. This change didn't coincide with the birth of the children didi it? I guess it's hard to say since both happened in a fairly narrow time span.

 

The fact that you had an active sex life in the not so distant past tells me it's probably not physical. I reread the original post and i didn't see anything about performance issues. And if he's whacking to porn, then the physical plumbing is working. Performance anxiety could be a factor, I suppose, and cialis/viagra will fix that instantly. It's strange that it went from healthy sex to nearly zero in just a couple of years.

 

You don't think he secretly started taking steroids for body-building do you? That could mess with drive and performance. Not sure if the blood work would've detected it. Probably not, but you should eliminate this as a possibility.

 

If I had to guess, this is performance anxiety. Cialis will fix this instantly (as said above). It's not steroids, if it were, the W would be here with an entirely different complaint (steroids dramatically increase your sex drive).

 

A man with LD who's otherwise healthy is very rare. Sure, it happens (one poster in here apparently had exactly that issue). But it really is rare, men have 10X the testosterone of women and it's the primary "horny" hormone. There's something else going on here that's causing this, I'd bet good money on it.

[knabe]

I'll probably get scolded for being mean, but here goes:

 

If he is having performance anxiety, that is something HE needs to deal with. He's a grownup.

 

I've lived this unwinnable life of trying to "fix him." Be nice enough and he'll want sex, have the house clean enough, make sure dinner is good an he's not too tired and nothing stressful happened at work and you don;t sound like you are criticizing anything and and and.....because if you can build the tower juuuuuuust right, he'll reward you with sex.

 

He won't.

 

Or, go to a doctor to try to fix what the tests say isn't broken or take a med that will make you stiff but does NOT take care of the "thinking it's important because she thinks it's important and she is important to him" problem.

 

I see it this way. It doesn't sound like you are a crappy harpie of a wife. So either he is gay, he is sick, or he is selfish. I would say the same thing about any woman who cuts off or withholds sex.

 

It is not your place to "earn" sex. It is his place to be intimate WITH you. And vice versa.

 

So he doesn't think about it and it's not a priority. He has the ability to set a calendar alert on his phone for, say, every few days to make love to you. He has the ability to learn how to make you feel good even if little Mr. Hubby is tired or not quite up to snuff. This is what people do when they love and are committed to someone.

 

Do NOT take ownership of his problem. I did this for over a decade, and it almost killed my soul.

[somanymistakes]

Make it clear to him that this matters to you and that he needs to find a way to work on fixing it or your relationship will come to an end. Take part in the fixes only as much as he invites - as knabe says, this should not be totally your responsibility. If he has ideas for things to do together that might help, definitely be with him on that, but don't fall into being the only one trying to fix things.

 

It doesn't matter if your needs are 'strange' to him. If you badly needed your feet rubbed every day, even though he didn't, a loving husband would rub your feet... or recognise that he's just not capable of footrubs and bring in someone else to help!

[Michelle ma Belle]

I'm going to take a different approach here. Why? Because I was married to your husband (not your actualy husband, but a man just like him).

 

He "just wasn't sexual." He was curious about porn but didn't use it much, and when I was upset by it, he stopped altogether.

 

He didn;t understand my drive or need. It just wasn't important to him, he "just didn't think about it."

 

I stopped being so available. We stopped having sex. Period. There was no need to hunt or need for me to be skinnier or need for more hormones (his levels were always normal).

 

He was just that one in a billion almost asexual male. I wasted most of my 30's and some of my 40's either trying to be per4fect - the perfect woman, the perfect housekeeper, never moody, never unhappy, etc. etc. OR begging for help or sex.

 

It never changed. Never. When he was tired of feeling bad about it, he declared our sex life over.

 

This is not you. Let me say that. This is not you, and the onus is not on you to fix it. Normal men want sex with their wives. And even if they aren't highly sexual, normal spouses meet their partner's needs. Period. Full stop.

 

Honestly, as young as you are, I'd give it an ultimatum (therapy) and a year. Then I'd leave. That is what I should have done.

 

I'm reposting this because I think it's important.

 

I've lived this life and I know it well. Only difference it that I spent 16 years...16 years...trying to make something out of nothing with a man who declared himself to also be 'not sexual' or who didn't think sex was as important as I did in a relationship. Meantime, he was off masturbating to porn daily.

 

I spent countless years trying to be perfect for him to no avail. Being available didn't work and when I stopped trying so hard, sex vanished altogether never to be seen again.

 

It's all bullsh*t.

 

I know sexual wives aren't often the norm in many marriages but Jesus Chr*st you'd think we were bloody unicorns if these threads are any indication of what is really going on behind most bedroom doors. There are literally countless threads on here of men of all ages complaining about low libido / no sex wives. The fact that you're a unicorn should be something to celebrate. Period.

 

All I have to say on this subject is that it doesn't get better. I'm sorry if that is blunt and negative but it just doesn't, or not without an enormous amount of therapy and effort.

 

I've been here and have spent many years watching and listening to many other couples go through this too. It RARELY ends in a fairy tale. If it does last, it's because one of you gave up trying for something better. You just settle. And that's fine if you think you can live out the rest of your life like that but at 24...yikes...I can't imagine you're ready to hang your g-string just yet.

 

Good luck.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Michelle ma Belle

[salparadise]

I'll probably get scolded for being mean, but here goes:

 

he needs to deal with. He's a grownup.

either he is gay, he is sick, or he is selfish.

It is not your place to "earn" sex.

he doesn't think about it and it's not a priority

do not take ownership of his problem.

 

I won't scold, but I do think you're projecting resentment from your experience onto this man. OP is a sharp cookie. She's looking for our help and support, and she's hopeful that there is a solution. Loving, compassionate people do that. You didn't literally say she should kick him to the curb, but it's clearly what you're implying... not her problem, he's selfish, she doesn't owe him anything.

 

People are who they are. No one can simply choose to be someone else. He's not withholding to control or deny her needs. His drive has plummeted. They have kids and had a good sex life a few years ago. I commend OP for doing what she can to help figure it out and save the marriage. That's what people of integrity and compassion do for people they love. I think you should be taking a lesson from her instead of trying to spread cynicism. We all know what the ultimate result will have to be if things don't improve, but up until now everyone posting in this thread has shown remarkable restraint and focused on trying to help without judgement. Maybe you can find it within yourself to get on board with that as well.

[BelleOfTheBall88]

 

It doesn't matter if your needs are 'strange' to him. If you badly needed your feet rubbed every day, even though he didn't, a loving husband would rub your feet... or recognise that he's just not capable of footrubs and bring in someone else to help!

 

He could probably have sex with me everyday if I demanded it.

But, i don't want that. Of course I would love to..but it doesn't mean anything to me if he does it out of guilt. I want him to want to have sex with me.

This is mainly what started this. We had sex frequently and later on admitted that it was done out of guilt and pressure. He didn't actually wannt to but made himself.

I don't want that.

It makes me feel worse that he's having to force himself into having sex when he really doesn't want to.

Does that make sense?

[BelleOfTheBall88]

Thank you all for your responses.

I'm going to try some different things that I haven't tried. If it doesn't work....then I really don't know. I just hope something does.

[Overtaxed]

It makes me feel worse that he's having to force himself into having sex when he really doesn't want to.

Does that make sense?

 

Sure does, dealing with exactly the same thing in my M. It's not "do it or else" that anyone wants. It's "want you to want" to do it that we all desire in a marriage.

 

No one can simply choose to be someone else. He's not withholding to control or deny her needs. His drive has plummeted. They have kids and had a good sex life a few years ago. I commend OP for doing what she can to help figure it out and save the marriage. That's what people of integrity and compassion do for people they love.

 

I disagree. Yes, you can choose to be someone else. I've done it. And people do it all the time, it's call "reinventing yourself". And it's not all that uncommon, and often FAR more significant reinvention than ramping up the sex drive. People quit jobs as CEO of a big company and go on a mission to Africa. Or people leave a job to join the church as a minister. Drug addicts become executives. I could go on, but, suffice to say, it IS entirely possible to re-invent yourself and become someone your not if you WANT TO.

 

And that's the struggle here. The OP's spouse doesn't appear to want to. I am not convinced this is "just him", yes, I know my drive is very high compared to most, but, even a low drive man, this sounds like some other complication going on. Men love sex, IMHO, it's the driving force that built most of what you see around you; if men didn't desire sex so much, the world would be a very different, and, IMHO, far worse place. It is the drive for most men. And, the men who didn't have that drive? They've been weeded out by evolution over millions of years. Sure, there's always some stray mutations that get through, but we're all descended from the men who, 10,000's of years ago, would do anything to have sex. Those that wouldn't, did not reproduce. So that genes died out. The same is not true for women, they were not selected for the same way, a female's sex drive didn't really provide much reproductive value, so, in many ways (this should be funny), we're descended from the horniest men and prettiest women. Those were the "selection traits" that had the best chances of being passed on.

 

Anyway, diatribe on evolution over. The reason for saying this, if a man has an attractive wife, is able to get an erection, doesn't have painful orgasms or some other physical ailment and doesn't want to have sex? There's a problem. It's a mental problem, yes, but it's not like with women "well, she's just low drive", that's normal and not unusual. But it's not normal for men, it really isn't. There's a spectrum, of course, some men want sex 3X a day, others are fine with 3X a week. But 3X a year? No, I'm sorry, a man who's happy with that has something else wrong with him, because, there's no way evolution would pass on the traits that cause such a lack of interest in sex. There are a million things it could be, I gave my best guess (performance anxiety) and I'll give my second best guess (too much porn, which is causing performance anxiety or habituating him to sex by himself). But, there's something wrong, and it's not "normal". If the sex were reversed, it may very well just be a woman with low drive. But they aren't, and, as such, I stand by my original statement. Something is wrong physically or mentally. And, when something is wrong, that means it can be fixed.