Sex and Marriage..who knew it could be this hard?

[knabe]

I won't scold, but I do think you're projecting resentment from your experience onto this man. OP is a sharp cookie. She's looking for our help and support, and she's hopeful that there is a solution. Loving, compassionate people do that. You didn't literally say she should kick him to the curb, but it's clearly what you're implying... not her problem, he's selfish, she doesn't owe him anything.

 

People are who they are. No one can simply choose to be someone else. He's not withholding to control or deny her needs. His drive has plummeted. They have kids and had a good sex life a few years ago. I commend OP for doing what she can to help figure it out and save the marriage. That's what people of integrity and compassion do for people they love. I think you should be taking a lesson from her instead of trying to spread cynicism. We all know what the ultimate result will have to be if things don't improve, but up until now everyone posting in this thread has shown remarkable restraint and focused on trying to help without judgement. Maybe you can find it within yourself to get on board with that as well.

 

Ya, I drank that kool aid for nearly 2 decades. I tried everything to be good enough for my husband. Everything. I loved him so much, and I felt like a shell by the time I made the excruciating decision to leave.

 

That whole people of integrity and compassion speil? Yeah, I can read between lines too. You don't know me. You don't know how many THOUSANDS of nights I spent trying to figure out how to be enough to deserve to be loved by the man who promised to love me.

 

OP, I have read off and on while working today. So I may not have read every post. if your husband is on board with doing whatever it takes to find a solution to this, if he is on board with making this important because YOU are important to him, if he has consistently done ANYTHING except hide from it, I apologize.

 

I do wonder how many men would berate another man for becoming frustrated with his wife who won't have sex.

 

I have to echo what Michelle said. Not only do we women have to deal with the pain and rejection when our husbands won;t touch us, we feel like freaks because usually the story is the other way around. Then, because we are women, we are supposed to just...deal with it and fix it ourselves.

 

I am not bitter. My biggest hope would be that OP's husband would learn to put her first and take care of her. I'd be very happy for her.

 

But I deal in data. And all the data I've ever seen tells me this doesn't become magically better, especially when it's the man who doesn't want sex. I just don't want her to go down the "not good enough" rabbit hole I lived in for 15 years.

[salparadise]

You don't know how many THOUSANDS of nights I spent trying to figure out how to be enough to deserve to be loved by the man who promised to love me.

 

I do wonder how many men would berate another man for becoming frustrated with his wife who won't have sex.

 

Then, because we are women, we are supposed to just...deal with it and fix it ourselves.

 

I am not bitter. My biggest hope would be that OP's husband would learn to put her first and take care of her. I'd be very happy for her.

 

I just don't want her to go down the "not good enough" rabbit hole I lived in for 15 years.

 

This whole "not good enough" thing is how you internalized your situation, and maybe it was more apt in your marriage... but nobody is saying that OP should blame herself or deal with it and fix herself.

 

If you're not bitter, and I hope you aren't, I don't know what a better word would be... resentful perhaps? You obviously have some strong feelings of intolerance.

 

I don't buy the guff about it being worse when a man doesn't want sex than when it's the woman. Both partners in a marriage are equally entitled to a sex life.

 

She's doing the right thing in trying to find a solution. Perhaps the prognosis isn't good based on your personal data point and Michelle's, but giving it her best shot before throwing in the towel is the right thing to do. I don't see how anyone could argue with that. Staying in a sexless marriage for fifteen years is not equivalent to that. Nobody will blame her if she tries and it doesn't work, and she leaves to create the possibility for a fulfilling life and marriage.

 

All I'm saying is she's doing the right thing by trying to fix it first –– which is not the same as internalizing and convincing herself that she's not good enough.

[SmartDude]

One thing he said to me was this "Steak is my favorite food, but if I eat it everyday then I'm going to get tired of it and it will no longer be my favorite"

 

The kind of variety he is looking for, you can't give him.

The "variety" he may be seeking is actually sex with another woman besides you..

[MJJean]

Thank you all for your responses.

I'm going to try some different things that I haven't tried. If it doesn't work....then I really don't know. I just hope something does.

 

So, he's admitted to you that when your relationship was highly sexed he was doing it out of guilt and pressure. His hormones have checked out. He's flat out said you're a sex maniac and that the lack of sex isn't a problem, that sex is stupid, ect.?

 

From what you've written here I'd say save yourself some years and frustration by accepting this is who he is and that you'll never have a satisfying sex life with this man or file for a divorce. He's happy without the sex. You're the one who actually has a problem. Your choices are to do something about it or suck it up and go without your needs being met.

[Overtaxed]

So, he's admitted to you that when your relationship was highly sexed he was doing it out of guilt and pressure. His hormones have checked out. He's flat out said you're a sex maniac and that the lack of sex isn't a problem, that sex is stupid, ect.?

 

From what you've written here I'd say save yourself some years and frustration by accepting this is who he is and that you'll never have a satisfying sex life with this man or file for a divorce. He's happy without the sex. You're the one who actually has a problem. Your choices are to do something about it or suck it up and go without your needs being met.

 

Except that his hormones have NOT checked out. He has high E2, look it up (to the OP), look at the symptoms. They are very similar to what your describing. Most docs (no offense) have NO IDEA about how to treat male hormone issues, they really don't; this area of science has been forever tainted by "steroids in sports". Yes, steroids have a medical role, and, in this case, very well might fix your problem.

 

Look, if you want to throw in the towel, I get it. But you have other options. Hormones rule sex drive, when people get to "good levels", and haven't been there in a long time (or ever) they can't believe what they feel like sexually. As a man, sexual thoughts should be pretty pressing on your mind, especially when your alone with your wife. That's normal for us, and, if it's not happening, there is something wrong. It could be your relationship, it could be his attraction to you, but, from what you've said, those aren't an issue. That leaves a few things, most of which point to "hormone problems".

 

Do what you will, but I can nearly promise you, get this guy to a doc who knows what he's doing, and you'll need to take a few weeks off work because, when that drive comes back, it comes back with a vengeance.

[dichotomy]

Free T better not be 623! That's a total T number, and it's a bit low, most men feel better in 800-100 range. But it's not terrible either.

 

E2 level is high, I'd usually want that number to be around 15-20. And a few points there makes a big difference!

 

Here's a good article to take a look at:

 

Normal Estradiol Levels in Men

 

 

I would debate that - as would others who study it and live it. But as a general rule your husbands hormone numbers are good enough to not be the cause of issues. I am surprised they took E2 levels -also probably not the right type of E2 test either.... most doctors only check Total T. But these are for TRT geeks to debate - not you;)

 

On to other topics...

 

Does he get morning wood ? You can always check while he is near to waking . Casually check. Also any night sweats or mood issues.

 

Check for cheating of course - VAR in car and Spyware on PC's and check phone. You found porn - you might also find other information on his mood and thoughts - maybe he talks to a friend on whats bothering him. Maybe he uses support boards like this to discuss his feelings ....

 

You say his interest took a nose dive BEFORE the wedding ? Not after kids ? hmmm. its usually after the wedding and kids - that drive starts dropping for women and some men.

 

The reasons for plunging sex drive are not always 100% easy or clear to determine - I tried to figure out my wife for years - why her interest dropped. Even 9 months of therapy with a female sex therapist did not help us. I formed my own reasons why her interest dropped off. Nothing I can do to change that - its been difficult for me to live in a low sex marriage - but at least I think I know why.

 

I am sorry you live in a remote place - maybe you will get lucky searching below for help?

 

https://www.aasect.org/referral-directory

 

I am sorry to report than most (but not all) stories of a low sex marriage rarely get solved. Even with therapy. Its just hard to get it back once it goes. Your choices 1) are stay and accept/cope somehow with other things 2) Get a FB - VERY VERY easy for a woman to find one and less risk for a woman to get caught if its just sex. 3) Divorce. Up to you- I would not blame you for any of the three choices.

Edited June 28, 2017 by dichotomy

[JS84]

All I can say is be prepared to leave if nothing changes. I've ready too many stories about men and women staying in sexless marriages for decades, looking back, and regretting it. He can still be a good father without you being his room mate and co-parent. Which is really all you are at this point.

[Overtaxed]

I would debate that - as would others who study it and live it. But as a general rule your husbands hormone numbers are good enough to not be the cause of issues. I am surprised they took E2 levels -also probably not the right type of E2 test either.... most doctors only check Total T. But these are for TRT geeks to debate - not you;)

 

I'm sorry Dichotomy, I often agree with you, but we're going to have to disagree on this one.

 

Those numbers, if you'd sent them to me with NO other information, one of the first questions I'd ask; "Can he get hard" and "Does he desire sex". That E2 number is a flashing red flag.

 

Choose to do what you will, I'm not a doc; I am a TRT geek though (guilty as charged). I'm telling you, from personal experience, what we call "sex drive" is mostly a mix of hormones, and we can manipulate those hormones to enhance or reduce it in just about everyone. Can it make him desire you if he doesn't? Nope, won't do that. Will it give him a drive to have sex, you go***mn right it will.

 

I've said what I think needed to be said here, but, if you love this man and want to be with him but sex drive is the only issue; if he's willing to work on it (which very well may mean taking drugs, perhaps for the rest of his life), this can be fixed. If you want to move on, it doesn't really matter, although, as a good person, I do think you should share this information with him. Many people think this "is just me" or "not fixable". It's not true, it is nearly always fixable, you just have to get a doctor to help you find the right mix for him.

[road]

Doc's say he is good to go but this husband

refuses to com (cough, cough) e.

 

Yet he looks at porn.

 

This points out to that he has a mistress.

 

Her name?

 

Mary Hand.

 

Whatever his reasons are he has his reasons that he will

not reveal why he does not want sex with his wife.

 

Until the truth comes out this problem will not be repairable.

 

So what does the wife do?

 

Divorce, stay married with no sex, cheat.

[central]

In my experience, this kind of problem is never (almost) fixed. However, it is usually good to explore all the options and issues before concluding that there is no hope, and decide to live with it or leave.

 

 

I suggest putting a mental deadline on this for seeing significant improvement. Explore the physical/hormonal concerns that some here say may still be affecting his desire. It may well be psychological, rooted in his upbringing or beliefs. It could simply be that even if he's very healthy in body and mind, he's naturally a low libido person with little interest in or need for sex.

 

 

If nothing changes significantly for the better after pursuing these issues for a year - or if he does nothing or won't cooperate before then - you'll have to decide to stay or leave anyway. Doing nothing is also a choice - but it is your choice to make.

[dichotomy]

I'm sorry Dichotomy, I often agree with you, but we're going to have to disagree on this one.

 

Those numbers, if you'd sent them to me with NO other information, one of the first questions I'd ask; "Can he get hard" and "Does he desire sex". That E2 number is a flashing red flag.

 

Choose to do what you will, I'm not a doc; I am a TRT geek though (guilty as charged). I'm telling you, from personal experience, what we call "sex drive" is mostly a mix of hormones, and we can manipulate those hormones to enhance or reduce it in just about everyone. Can it make him desire you if he doesn't? Nope, won't do that. Will it give him a drive to have sex, you go***mn right it will.

 

.

 

 

All respects to you as well - but ya we will agree to disagree. TRT geek as well - nearly 30 years of it. E2 at 20 made me a dark depressed joint hurting man. With E2's ranging from 20 to 52 and T from 400-900 never ever lost my sex drive or morning wood. But did have plenty of other issues at the extremes when I did not control things as well as I do now. E2 in upper 20's to 30 works for me and it was very hard to fine tune that as you probably know.

 

But I can say from talking to other "TRT geeks" every man has a slightly different set point for their body on hormones and what works for one may not work for another. Also E2 is a very specialized topic - many guys who take TRT (for medical reasons) never even have it checked. Performance TRT guys know to get it checked. Surprised OP's husbands doc was smart enough to check it - more surprised if he did an extra sensitive test for it.

 

Back to general issues of OP.

 

I came to the board along time about cheating and later about decreasing and fluctuating sex issues in my marriage. Can tell you years of attempts with my wife, couples therapy, reading several books on sex and marriage, and years of reading posts here - issues of low or no sex marriages are VERY hard to resolve or even determine why in some instances. I have rarely seen a post saying "we fixed our sex life !" but it happens - usually associated with an affair being resolved positively and sex returns due to efforts by both WS and BS - or occasionally the threat of divorce or possible affair pushes the low sex spouse to get their rear in gear. Its heartbreaking to see the deprived spouse doing the "love me dances" of more housework, dressing nicer, setting up romantic situations or trips, using toys/porn/outfits, therapy, loosing weight, begging/pleading ..with no change. As one poster here said here a while ago .. "twisting myself in all ways" just to get their spouse to return to what they used to have.

Edited June 28, 2017 by dichotomy

[BluEyeL]

This is a complicated problem. Since you're willing to try anything, I suggest looking into this book:

 

The Empowered Wife | Laura Doyle

 

It would sound a bit annoying to an independent woman, but it does make sense here and there. Maybe you get some ideas for your marriage.

[Michelle ma Belle]

In my experience, this kind of problem is never (almost) fixed. However, it is usually good to explore all the options and issues before concluding that there is no hope, and decide to live with it or leave.

 

 

I suggest putting a mental deadline on this for seeing significant improvement. Explore the physical/hormonal concerns that some here say may still be affecting his desire. It may well be psychological, rooted in his upbringing or beliefs. It could simply be that even if he's very healthy in body and mind, he's naturally a low libido person with little interest in or need for sex.

 

 

If nothing changes significantly for the better after pursuing these issues for a year - or if he does nothing or won't cooperate before then - you'll have to decide to stay or leave anyway. Doing nothing is also a choice - but it is your choice to make.

 

I second this.

 

I absolutely believe in and respect the need to fight for one's marriage particularly when you have children BUT I also know first hand that going round and round on a merry-go-round for endless years is an exercise in futility. Don't waste 16 years like I did to only wake up in the exact same place you started.

 

Having a deadline for action and change is VERY important. And BOTH your responsibilities.

 

Good luck.

[Bufo]

A year or so ago there were scientific papers, blogs and discussions of excessive porn causing desire and performance problems in men. Google the topic and you may get a few leads. And it provides an alternative hypothesis to the "cheating" one offered in a few posts here

 

Now for the bad news. This isn't going to get better all by itself or because you want it to get better. We usually see this problem with post marriage sex decline where H is complaining about W but your situation isn't unique.

 

You seem to have tried all the usual approaches. He is too young to lose interest in sex. And given his porn interest he hasn't lost interest in sex itself, but rather sex with you. Maybe he has qualms about sex with a mother of children. Or maybe something happened that makes him unwilling to "compete" with your past lovers.

 

He's got to work on this--get help if necessary--or he will either be divorced or a cuckold. Don't threaten him but tell him he is going to change or get help or regret his inaction.

[Chilli]

love the way the girls always put sex in capital letters or things like rise abbreviated , yaknow, we can read.

There's nothing wrong with him he's lost interest. lt's the hardest thing about being married especially once they have a few kids.

Not sure what the answer is , just glad l'm not married anymore

[knabe]

There's a book called The Sex Starved Wife that is pretty good. It didn;t help my situation, but it helped my psyche.

 

If you have any other women friends in your situation, I'd lean on them as well. To be honest, you aren't going to get a lot of help from LD women because they really NEED to justify their LD-ness, especially if they are actively depriving their men. Men can help some, unless of course they are jaded by bad marriage experiences. But it IS different for a woman. Because we feel like freaks.

 

If you are being the best loving wife you can be, then repeat the mantra that this is NOT about you, and it is NOT yours to fix. Support? By all means. But responsible for fixing? Nope

 

Nope

 

Heck to the nope

 

Period.

[ahmed8xm]

Porn has really dangerous effect on human brain

 

You both need a reboot

 

Its called nofap

 

Porn causes ED in men it is different kind of effect

 

A man cant get hard with a real person

 

And a woman can never be able to satisfy with her husband

Believe me on this.

Search on google you will find out

[stillafool]

Do you know what kind of porn he watches? Gay porn maybe? That would explain a lot.

 

He watches porn with Black women.

 

OP are there any pretty Black women that work with him that he may have an interest in?