Is my wife hiding something?

[usa1ah]

One thing you might do.

 

Run a photo search of you wife on google.

[suspiciousH]

What's your plan if you find something?

 

I see you have a plan if you don't find something - but have a plan either way...

 

Honestly, I don't have a plan if I uncover something truly troubling. But let's assume the worst case of an ongoing PA. I have read stories of so many guys suffering through years of doubt and worry and I don't think I could manage it. We have only one life to live and I can't see myself shackled in a relationship with a woman I can't trust.

 

My guess is that divorce would be the only option for me. I am fortunate to live in a state in which a cheating spouse (proven intercourse, not oral, etc.) is entitled to receive zero alimony. I know a handful of excellent family law lawyers and would engage one of them to press my case. Before filing I would shift bank and retirement account dollars to personal accounts, according to advice of counsel, so my wife couldn't wreck things. I would cancel her credit cards while still making sure she could make ends meet. I would then tell her that it's over and kick her out of the house or leave myself based on direction from my lawyer. Then serve papers and start proceedings. Eventually I would start dating.

[Bufo]

We've seen texts in the high hundreds or more with an A. Hers are nowhere near that excessive. If 150 means an affair my wife is having an affair with each of her girlfriends.

 

She explained why women text each other. It is understood that the texter wants the textee to know something but that the texter doesn't have time right now to engage in a full fledged conversation.

 

Any odd charges? Changes in grooming or dressing? Changes in bedroom habits? Unexplained need for evening shopping trips that take too long? There are many red flags but from reading here there is usually more than one simultaneously.

[suspiciousH]

We've seen texts in the high hundreds or more with an A. Hers are nowhere near that excessive. If 150 means an affair my wife is having an affair with each of her girlfriends.

 

She explained why women text each other. It is understood that the texter wants the textee to know something but that the texter doesn't have time right now to engage in a full fledged conversation.

 

Any odd charges? Changes in grooming or dressing? Changes in bedroom habits? Unexplained need for evening shopping trips that take too long? There are many red flags but from reading here there is usually more than one simultaneously.

 

Her texts averaged over 600 last summer, 5x her typical rate. Not sure whether or not that means anything but it's got me concerned.

 

The only odd changes are those I've already cited: over-the-top flirting, impatience/anger with kids and to a lesser extent with me, Skype question marks, texting abnormalities, and the original FB thread I discovered. She also said, oddly, in October that she "loves me no matter what." No new lingerie or major wardrobe changes, no significant time out of the house when I am there, no phone guarding, no diminishing of sex life, and no party girl behavior that I know of.

[HereNorThere]

That computer is a gold mine. You should run recovery programs on the hard drive. Start with a freebie like Recuva, and have it do a deep scan of the unused space. Look for any picture files that can easily be recovered. Them you want to look for browser cache/history. Once you recover those files, you may need a cache viewer to open them. Most all of this can be done for free using YouTube tutorials and anonymous cats on relationship forums. You need time alone with the computer though. Don't attempt this without hours to scan and clean up afterwards.

 

What kind of cell phone does she have? Do you have all of her passwords?

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Her texts averaged over 600 last summer, 5x her typical rate. Not sure whether or not that means anything but it's got me concerned.

 

The only odd changes are those I've already cited: over-the-top flirting, impatience/anger with kids and to a lesser extent with me, Skype question marks, texting abnormalities, and the original FB thread I discovered. She also said, oddly, in October that she "loves me no matter what." No new lingerie or major wardrobe changes, no significant time out of the house when I am there, no phone guarding, no diminishing of sex life, and no party girl behavior that I know of.

 

Any change in "feminine" grooming habits?

[suspiciousH]

That computer is a gold mine. You should run recovery programs on the hard drive. Start with a freebie like Recuva, and have it do a deep scan of the unused space. Look for any picture files that can easily be recovered. Them you want to look for browser cache/history. Once you recover those files, you may need a cache viewer to open them. Most all of this can be done for free using YouTube tutorials and anonymous cats on relationship forums. You need time alone with the computer though. Don't attempt this without hours to scan and clean up afterwards.

 

What kind of cell phone does she have? Do you have all of her passwords?

 

Many thanks for the great ideas.

 

She has an iPhone 6s. I have some of her passwords: FB, Sprint, email. But RE the latter, she has 2-factor authentication on her email so getting in will be tough without unfettered access to her phone.

[suspiciousH]

Any change in "feminine" grooming habits?

 

I go down on her regularly and haven't noticed any changes.

[HereNorThere]

Many thanks for the great ideas.

 

She has an iPhone 6s. I have some of her passwords: FB, Sprint, email. But RE the latter, she has 2-factor authentication on her email so getting in will be tough without unfettered access to her phone.

 

If you're under her profile, email will probably log right in. My 2 factor gmail only makes me use the second factor the first time I've used that browser or I've dumped my cache.

 

However, you have access to the phone. So technically you have the second factor if you need it. Use Zombiehead's method (fingerprint+sleep) if you don't have the passcode. Just approve the browser once and don't clear the cache, or add it to another device. Don't forget to delete the emails and text from the login. Does she have an iPad,iPod or Mac? That would be a goldmine of iMessages and phone logs as well. Obligatory Dr. Fone by Wondershare recommendation as well. Yes, it's expensive, but it also works.

 

The most valuable thing you can possess is her Apple ID. iCloud backup is turned on by default. Those backups contain everything - camera roll, iMessages, everything. It's possible to download them and extract what you want. Google around, the info is out there. Does she ever backup to iTunes? Those backups are even more extensive but no one does that anymore.

 

Word to the wise, don't touch the Apple ID without having access to the email account linked with it. It's going to send her an email letting her know someone logged in. You need to be in the email and delete it (or mark as spam so it will remove automatically the next time.)

 

That computer though.... Man, I'd turn that thing out. There's soooo much data there and those hard drives retain data forever.

Edited June 29, 2017 by HereNorThere

[reboot]

The number of texts you cite would not cause me much concern. Two or three thousand would start my alarms ringing. If texting were indeed how they communicating that is.

[Poutrew]

Yep. First I would make a backup of the entire computer - that backup is in essence a full snapshot of the state of data on that computer at that point in time. Also, make sure you make a FULL backup, including all the hard drives in the machine and all the partitions on each hard drive. If the wife is computer literate, she could have a hidden partition where all the juicy stuff resides, and it would be totally transparent to anybody else. Once you make the backup, you can image it onto another, separate computer and dissect it at your leisure without worry of being discovered. A bit for bit image of the entire hard drive will even include deleted files and binary data residing outside the operating system. There is a 'test' you can do to see if you are on the right track: After you have made the backup and installed it on the second computer, tell your wife how someone at your work had a hard drive crash and lost all his personal data, banking data, family picture, etc. and how devastated he was. It got you thinking how bad it would be for both of you if that happened to you, so you bought a hard drive backup program and you are going to save a copy of your computer should you ever need it. See how she reacts. If she tries to delay you or tells you to not worry about it, it is because there is something important on that drive she doesn't want you to see. You will have your answer. Tell her you are going to do it in a few days, like next Saturday when you have some spare time. This will give her time to delete anything incriminating... then make the backup and compare it to the one you made without her knowledge. The differences are the files you need to concentrate on - she has unknowingly provided you a map to where to look.

 

Next, you need to install a key logger on her pc. You need to get her skype password, and any passwords for hidden face book accounts, apps like kik or other messaging apps. Once you have them, you can run them on the image of her computer you made with the data you copied onto the 2nd computer. This way you can take your time perusing each and every crazy named file without fear of discovery.

 

You also want to do a physical search of your house, looking for hiding places your wife may have placed incriminating materials. At his point, you are looking for anything, not just her burner phone. Several years ago a guy wrote that he was in the basement looking for something and he accidentally knocked over his wife's keepsake chest which sprung open on impact and revealed a false bottom where his wife had kept hidden sex pictures during her time in college, where she had serviced an entire frat house... so you don't know what you will find... I will tell you this: The pattern you have described may indicate your wife could be a part time drug mule or escort. Maybe her and her girlfriends run drugs when they need some extra cash... I know, silly, right?

 

Depending how far down the rabbit hole you go, you really must start entertaining impossible sounding scenarios which could explain why your gut is screaming so loudly at you when you aren't trying to put it back to sleep... at any rate,, good luck, and seriously I hope you find nothing. But, my bitter experience is telling me that you at this time have no idea how far your wife has already fallen down that hole...

[MickeyBill]

When ypu say over the top flirting, who is she flirting with?

 

Are there the traditional red flags, like new hair style, working out, losing weight, dressing different, GNO?

 

Skype might be suspect, is there a history? If he EAP is out of town they could entertain each other late at night.

 

Going from 150 (5 per day)text per day to 500 is a jump (16 per day) - does she have new friends who text a lot? Does it show per day use? Like are there 80 texts on one day and 2 on another? That could indicate "something" is up. Could be coordinating your surprise party or hooking up with an OM

 

Trust your gut.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I just have one observation.

 

What if.... after all of this... you find nothing?

What kind of reaction do you think you might get from her... when she finds out all of the spying and snooping and lying you have done in order to trap her?do you think this might in some way cause irreparable damage to your relationship?

Because.. if I were innocent and I found out my husband had done all these things to spy on me...I don't know if I could get over it.

 

I just keep reading all of this thinking.. wow... alll this for 16 extra texts a day.

 

I don't know what to hope for you... that she's innocent or guilty because either way... this relationship is probably toast.

[Maraud3r]

"If you're insecure and have reason for doubt, don't try to actually find out. Because that is just as bad as cheating." If he finds nothing, he has no reason to tell her, no? Also usually by the time someone who was not always mistrusting and jealous picks up on these things and begins to become suspect the wandering has already escalated to such an extent that the cheated on spouse can pick up on the changes in behaviour.

 

Then again, weren't you the WW in your case?

[Mrs. John Adams]

"If you're insecure and have reason for doubt, don't try to actually find out. Because that is just as bad as cheating." If he finds nothing, he has no reason to tell her, no? Also usually by the time someone who was not always mistrusting and jealous picks up on these things and begins to become suspect the wandering has already escalated to such an extent that the cheated on spouse can pick up on the changes in behaviour.

 

Then again, weren't you the WW in your case?

 

I was both ww and bw

 

Doesn't matter what I was... my point is if she were to find out that he was this suspicious and went to these extreme measures to investigate ... what kind of damage could it cause?

 

This issue is all about trust...he trusts her so little that he would go to this extreme for 16 extra text messages a day.

[IndigoNight]

Unless there are other red flags besides a period of more texting than usual, it seems like a lot of work trying to catch her doing something.

 

I have had several periods of time where my texting got unusually high. Why? Because I knew someone going through a rough patch and was texting them more than usual. I never mentioned it to my H because it was drama that he had no interest in hearing about. He didn't need to know my friend was venting to me about their relationship. It wouldn't have mattered to him one way or the other. If I ever found him snooping, and trying to catch me in the act of an A, I would be livid. If he doesn't trust me enough to talk to me about his suspicions or concerns, and wants to violate my privacy because of his insecurities, we have a BIG problem.

 

Sending 16 texts a day doesn't seem worthy of weeks, or even months of digging through every aspect of her life trying to find something. Planting a VAR, keyloggers, dumping her phone, etc, seems a bit extreme to me.

[Superchicken]

I just have one observation.

 

What if.... after all of this... you find nothing?

What kind of reaction do you think you might get from her... when she finds out all of the spying and snooping and lying you have done in order to trap her?do you think this might in some way cause irreparable damage to your relationship?

Because.. if I were innocent and I found out my husband had done all these things to spy on me...I don't know if I could get over it.

 

I just keep reading all of this thinking.. wow... alll this for 16 extra texts a day.

 

I don't know what to hope for you... that she's innocent or guilty because either way... this relationship is probably toast.

 

 

Hi Mrs JA,

I'm with Blues on this.

Don't roll your eyes, as there is reason..

The most disturbing issue at hand, is the FB messages about the other dude wanting her, and she just laughs at it..

That in itself, should have caused her to either, tell him NOT to repeat those words, or any other words pertaining to them getting together.

She didn't..

Further, no mention of this conversation was made to her partner. The conversation continued until it was brought to light.

She only blocked him after being told to do so.

However, we all know that MOST, continue to chat, but in secret again.

The fact that so many texts were sent, shows a logical path in which its seems they continued the relationship.

Further compounded by Skype, as its main use is video, and staying till late all points to something ajar.

Lastly, the flirting is too often, and I feel she's too confidant in doing it. So, there must be some comftability on her part in being able to do it so easily, and to anyone.

 

 

Listen, if a guy wearing a ski mask walked into a 7/11 store, the first thing that crosses my mind isn't "Oh, he's here to buy some breath mints, and a packet of Chicken chips"..

 

 

 

 

The worst that can happen, is he looks like a fool, she get a little pissed, and he goes without nookie for a while..

 

 

 

 

My pecker (Beak for the gutter minded) tells me, she's texting him, and skyping him, or at worst someone else..

 

 

I hate Apple devices, but isn't their that mirroring of texts to another device or something ?.

 

 

Plus there is software that records video, or at least snapshots every few seconds of the Desktop screen on the computer.

So maybe, you can see what she's doing during those times.

 

 

Ted.

[jenkins95]

Honestly, I don't have a plan if I uncover something truly troubling.

 

Before filing I would shift bank and retirement account dollars to personal accounts, according to advice of counsel, so my wife couldn't wreck things. I would cancel her credit cards while still making sure she could make ends meet. I would then tell her that it's over and kick her out of the house or leave myself based on direction from my lawyer. Then serve papers and start proceedings. Eventually I would start dating.

 

Hi SH

 

For a man who doesn't have a plan...that's a very good plan!

 

I have read through the thread and think you are proceeding very well. You are taking advice and are also checking yourself to make sure you do not become obsessed or prone to confirmation bias. Well done.

 

My own personal take is that there is genuine hope here that everything will be OK. It may be that she got some attention from a man and while she had absolutely no intention of crossing the line at all and kept boundaries in place, perhaps a small curious part of her was actually quite flattered by the attention and she tailored her answers in such a way as to not lead him on, but at the same time invite him to push the boundaries a little bit just to see how far he'd take it. So perhaps an exchange similar to the one of a couple of years ago happened again (harmless from her point of view, but nevertheless silly, dangerous and disrespectful) - not necessarily with the same man and not necessarily using the same media.

 

Let's face it, we all have egos and however committed we are and however tightly we lock down our bondaries, very few people would not feel at least a little twinge of pride to know that someone else found them desirable. Later on she probably felt very bad and foolish about it and horrified about you finding out. It could be as simple as this...or there could be absolutely nothing and the extra text activity, etc could have a completely innocent explanation.

 

I'm an optimist by nature and so I naturally look for the most positive angle on this. A lot of people are saying that they think something much deeper is going on. Just throwing my 2 pennies worth into the mix to contrast with the others. I think you are right to proceed with your cautious detective work to help get peace of mind.

 

I wish you all the best and please keep us updated!

 

Look after yourself.

[mikeylo]

Guilty or not, she has created doubt and suspicion. Its a very hard life for you to go through all this , day and night , for days , weeks , months of this mental torture that is going to affect you physically as well. To have to look over your shoulder all the time is going to be exhausting.

 

Do what you need to, for your mental health.

 

If she has started liking attention from other men, its going to be very addictive and the road back is hard, and that is, if she wants to come back from it.

 

I feel sorry for all the BS ! The WS gets their fun on the side and BS has to deal with the consequences of their WS , as if the BS doesnt deserve fun.

 

Take Care

[suspiciousH]

I just have one observation.

 

What if.... after all of this... you find nothing?

What kind of reaction do you think you might get from her... when she finds out all of the spying and snooping and lying you have done in order to trap her?do you think this might in some way cause irreparable damage to your relationship?

Because.. if I were innocent and I found out my husband had done all these things to spy on me...I don't know if I could get over it.

 

I just keep reading all of this thinking.. wow... alll this for 16 extra texts a day.

 

I don't know what to hope for you... that she's innocent or guilty because either way... this relationship is probably toast.

 

What if I find nothing? Asked and answered in a prior post.

 

Who said anything about lying? I don't lie and I won't lie whether or not I find anything. In the past I've expressed concern about the FB chats, the flirting, and my worries, not to mention the profound love I have for her.

 

We agreed early in our marriage to rules of conduct meant to preserve our union. That includes total transparency. She has access to anything she wants and I thought I did too until the FB thing. I get it that secrecy is important to some married women but secrecy doesn't have a place in our marriage. If my wife were to discover my spying and decide that her secrecy is more important that what has largely been a beautiful marriage then I guess we'll have to deal with that.

 

The relationship is toast? Wow. If nothing else you're a master of hyperbole. It's ironic that you, a woman who takes such a generous approach in her counsel of women who have f***ed around, adopt such a miserly tone with guys who are simply trying to potentially prevent devastation to their marriage/life.

 

At any rate, I get it that you're a bit of the mother hen to the WW on LS. And I applaud some of your posts in which you try to talk sense into WW or those who seem to aspire to become one. But you may benefit from reserving judgment of a guy in my situation until you have enough detail to draw your conclusions.

[suspiciousH]

Hi SH

 

For a man who doesn't have a plan...that's a very good plan!

 

I have read through the thread and think you are proceeding very well. You are taking advice and are also checking yourself to make sure you do not become obsessed or prone to confirmation bias. Well done.

 

My own personal take is that there is genuine hope here that everything will be OK. It may be that she got some attention from a man and while she had absolutely no intention of crossing the line at all and kept boundaries in place, perhaps a small curious part of her was actually quite flattered by the attention and she tailored her answers in such a way as to not lead him on, but at the same time invite him to push the boundaries a little bit just to see how far he'd take it. So perhaps an exchange similar to the one of a couple of years ago happened again (harmless from her point of view, but nevertheless silly, dangerous and disrespectful) - not necessarily with the same man and not necessarily using the same media.

 

Let's face it, we all have egos and however committed we are and however tightly we lock down our bondaries, very few people would not feel at least a little twinge of pride to know that someone else found them desirable. Later on she probably felt very bad and foolish about it and horrified about you finding out. It could be as simple as this...or there could be absolutely nothing and the extra text activity, etc could have a completely innocent explanation.

 

I'm an optimist by nature and so I naturally look for the most positive angle on this. A lot of people are saying that they think something much deeper is going on. Just throwing my 2 pennies worth into the mix to contrast with the others. I think you are right to proceed with your cautious detective work to help get peace of mind.

 

I wish you all the best and please keep us updated!

 

Look after yourself.

 

Loved your post, Jenkins. You are clearly very perceptive and have described to a "T" my thoughts and feelings. And, like you, I am hopeful that my investigation yields nothing.

[Maraud3r]

Doesn't matter what I was...

Actually I have to disagree here. It does matter, a whole lot.

 

my point is if she were to find out that he was this suspicious and went to these extreme measures to investigate ... what kind of damage could it cause?

If he was extremely controlling, jealous, insecure etc all throughout their relationship that might be a problem. If he however has due cause to suspect her it smply does not apply anymore. He already FOUND some stuff that shouldn't have been going on, giving him cause to be distrustful to begin with. This is something you leave our entirely as you try to discourage him from pursuing this.

 

This issue is all about trust...he trusts her so little that he would go to this extreme for 16 extra text messages a day.

Except, that is not the case at all. This arcs back to why I asked on which side of the fence you belong. You left out the part where all of this started when he found out by accident what she was up to on Facebook. Where when confronted she did not react in any kind of remorseful way but mostly spiteful.

 

Something he moved on from quickly, rather than investigating back then already what she was up to. It took a shift in her behaviour that occured recently, including her acting flirty with other guys all of a sudden for him to start suspecting her.

 

You completely leave all of that out, merely pointing to a substantial increase in her message useage during certain times when he is away. Which on its own might not be suspect but seen in context most certainly is.

[jenkins95]

Loved your post, Jenkins. You are clearly very perceptive and have described to a "T" my thoughts and feelings. And, like you, I am hopeful that my investigation yields nothing.

 

Thank you for this SH! I would also add that I have been very impressed by your posts. You come across as an intelligent man with impeccable morals, who puts his wife and his family as the absolutely number 1 priority in his life. Good for you!

 

I'm am one of the stupid ones who, despite having a great wife and family, let curiosity, selfishness and entitlement get the better of me and I now find myself an established member of LS, with the unenviable acronym of fWS.

 

Your wife is extremely lucky to have a husband like you who values his wife and family above anything else, loves them so fully and would never allow himself to fall into the stupid path that I took. I had a happy marriage, and we are working very hard to rebuild a brand new happy marriage (I'm one of the lucky ones who has been given a chance at reconciliation) - but boy, what a hammer blow my affair has proved to be to all of us. How much pain I would have saved so many people if I could have maintained my own morals and standards to the rock-solid level that you clearly have. I admire you.

 

And yes, there is definite hope that you will find nothing out - because hopefully there is nothing to find. I'm crossing my fingers with sincere hope for you!

 

Please keep posting.

Edited June 29, 2017 by jenkins95

[BetrayedDad]

"If you're insecure and have reason for doubt, don't try to actually find out. Because that is just as bad as cheating." If he finds nothing, he has no reason to tell her, no? Also usually by the time someone who was not always mistrusting and jealous picks up on these things and begins to become suspect the wandering has already escalated to such an extent that the cheated on spouse can pick up on the changes in behaviour.

 

Then again, weren't you the WW in your case?

 

FWIW, my WW was 10 months into her PA before I got suspicious enough to bring myself to even look at her phone. That was after 14 years of marriage. Unfortunately, she was good about deleting everything and her affair continued for 3 more years.

Edited June 29, 2017 by BetrayedDad

[Mrs. John Adams]

What if I find nothing? Asked and answered in a prior post.

 

Who said anything about lying? I don't lie and I won't lie whether or not I find anything. In the past I've expressed concern about the FB chats, the flirting, and my worries, not to mention the profound love I have for her.

 

We agreed early in our marriage to rules of conduct meant to preserve our union. That includes total transparency. She has access to anything she wants and I thought I did too until the FB thing. I get it that secrecy is important to some married women but secrecy doesn't have a place in our marriage. If my wife were to discover my spying and decide that her secrecy is more important that what has largely been a beautiful marriage then I guess we'll have to deal with that.

 

The relationship is toast? Wow. If nothing else you're a master of hyperbole. It's ironic that you, a woman who takes such a generous approach in her counsel of women who have f***ed around, adopt such a miserly tone with guys who are simply trying to potentially prevent devastation to their marriage/life.

 

At any rate, I get it that you're a bit of the mother hen to the WW on LS. And I applaud some of your posts in which you try to talk sense into WW or those who seem to aspire to become one. But you may benefit from reserving judgment of a guy in my situation until you have enough detail to draw your conclusions.

 

i have not judged you. I have not criticised you.

 

I like to give ALL people the benefit of the doubt until proven guilty...

 

I understand red flags...I understand worry...and being suspicious...I get all of that. everything we do in life has consequences.....EVERYTHING.

 

I am NOT the enemy. I am thinking about how i might feel if i knew i had not crossed a line...but my husband went to such great effort to prove i had.

 

You seem to be hell bent on proving she is guilty and I am hoping you are hell bent on proving she is innocent.

 

You have a completely detailed exit plan...but do you also have a fully detailed STAYING plan? most folks here would say that lying by ommision is still lying....and that goes both ways.

 

In no way is your investigating her actions on the same level as cheating....do not misunderstand me. But if you find nothing....you will now have a secret between the two of you.....one that could be destructive to the relationship as well.

 

i am giving her the benefit of the doubt....the facebook messaging was a man who was flirting and teasing ...but she said nothing inappropriate back. Yes... she could have shut him down harshly...and she didn't. But she also did not respond with encouragement. You have her password to her facebook...which means you also can automatically get into her messaging. They are connected...so I guess i am not understanding why you think she was hiding it? It sounds like the two of you are very transparent to each other.

 

I am a texter...I dont like to talk on the phone. Some months I text more than others....it depends on if i send a lot of brief messages...or if i condence them into a very long message. It also depends on if i talk to people i normally dont talk to. There are a variety of reasons that the text message count could be increased for a one month period. It could have been a few extra messages a day....or a week. It doesn't sound alarming to me...but then she isn't my wife.

 

You said there are no other reasons for you to be suspicious...nothing has changed...she has not sent up any red flags.

 

The advice given to you by the folks here is good technical advice....they know their stuff.

 

I am much like jenkins...I tend to err on the side of caution and think folks are good until they prove to me they are bad.

 

You need to do what you need to do to have peace of mind...and i truly hope it all turns out to be nothing.