Is my wife hiding something?

[road]

She's not allowed to flip her hair or touch the arm of the guy she's talking to?

 

Does that not sound a tiny bit controlling to you? I'm from the South and some of that is the art of conversation here.

 

It kinda does to me, along with you sending her those articles.

 

Yes her FB messages were inappropriate. What I am suspicious of is her Skype. You need to gain access to that immediately

 

However, I'm not sure that she is cheating.

 

Flipping the hair and touching a man gets him to start thinking

maybe she "likes" me.

 

If a woman does not "like" a man that way she is better off

to not touch him.

[suspiciousH]

She's not allowed to flip her hair or touch the arm of the guy she's talking to?

 

Does that not sound a tiny bit controlling to you? I'm from the South and some of that is the art of conversation here.

 

It kinda does to me, along with you sending her those articles.

 

Yes her FB messages were inappropriate. What I am suspicious of is her Skype. You need to gain access to that immediately

 

However, I'm not sure that she is cheating.

 

I sent her one article, not multiple. And like you I am hopeful that she isn't doing anything untoward.

 

The signs I mentioned are, I think, generally understood as a means to express romantic interest. Not only that but I don't remember her sending these types of signals before a couple years ago.

 

We're not from the South but I regularly visit my company offices around the world, including the South, and I understand etiquette and differences in social interaction across various cultures. Controlling? If I'm controlling because a relatively new set of behaviors makes me (similar to many attached guys) uncomfortable and I decide to make it a topic of conversation then I guess I'm controlling. But of course I don't see it that way.

[Cephalopod]

Ceph -- Good points, questions.

 

No question that this kind of spying could become an obsession. In fact, I've noticed that reading other LS posts has increased my worry for reasons I don't completely understand. My plan is to investigate through Labor Day or until I find something material, whichever comes sooner. Do you think two months is enough time?

 

If all I end up with is what I now know then I would have to guess that she had some interest in a guy last summer, things got hotter than they should and the one of the two of them broke it off. Then I'll just have to leave it at that and decide whether or not I want to ask my wife about the text frequency last summer to gauge her reaction.

 

I would say even that is too much. You will find by reading all these stories here and on other sites that once a BS starts sleuthing it is usually only a matter of a few days or maybe couple of weeks before they find the smoking gun. I say if you have your surveillance items in place, and those produce nothing after a couple weeks, then scrub the operation. Any more than this and your wife will find out, or, you will make yourself sick with paranoia.

 

You have educated yourself. You know the red flags to look for. You can be aware and vigilant without being obsessed.

[stillafool]

Hey Mikey -- I would put flirting and cheating in different categories.

 

In each case of flirting I raised my concerns (and in one case I walked off the soccer field and said I'd talk to her later). I told/reminded her that flipping of the hair, showing her neck, touching her face, and her repeatedly touching the arm of another guy is 100% flirting in my book. She said that she wasn't aware of the signals that women send and that the occurrences were unintentional. After I saw her do that with the project manager I showed her a Youtube video on the signals that women send to express interest.

 

I'm a woman and I flip my hair out of habit without thinking about it. Also how do you not show your neck when it's attached to your head? Who knew that men are aroused by necks anyway. I agree that touching a man could be considered flirting but the other stuff is ridiculous.

[Zona]

What I am suspicious of is her Skype. You need to gain access to that immediately

 

Exactly. Check her Skype and her computer in general. If it's clean, then pretty good chance she is not cheating. You might just want to clarify boundaries with her again.

[suspiciousH]

I'm a woman and I flip my hair out of habit without thinking about it. Also how do you not show your neck when it's attached to your head? Who knew that men are aroused by necks anyway. I agree that touching a man could be considered flirting but the other stuff is ridiculous.

 

Maybe perform some experiments for me. Get into one-on-one conversations with a guy. Then start flipping your hair, exposing your neck, touching your face, repeatedly touching his arm, and generally follow the instructions in the Youtube video below:

 

 

Then after your experiments please tell me how the guy reacts. Does he start expressing more interest, pursuing you, etc.?

[reboot]

Maybe perform some experiments for me. Get into one-on-one conversations with a guy. Then start flipping your hair, exposing your neck, touching your face, repeatedly touching his arm, and generally follow the instructions in the Youtube video below:

 

 

Then after your experiments please tell me how the guy reacts. Does he start expressing more interest, pursuing you, etc.?

 

According to that almost every woman I know flirts with me.

 

edit: granted I'm from the South too, but still....

[mikeylo]

According to that almost every woman I know flirts with me.

 

edit: granted I'm from the South too, but still....

 

Maybe you too are giving the ' available ' vibe ! Open body language, making eye contact ,touching , showing personal interest , making them laugh , sizing them up , are all signs of ' availability '.

[mikeylo]

Hey Mikey -- I would put flirting and cheating in different categories.

 

In each case of flirting I raised my concerns (and in one case I walked off the soccer field and said I'd talk to her later). I told/reminded her that flipping of the hair, showing her neck, touching her face, and her repeatedly touching the arm of another guy is 100% flirting in my book. She said that she wasn't aware of the signals that women send and that the occurrences were unintentional. After I saw her do that with the project manager I showed her a Youtube video on the signals that women send to express interest.

 

Dude, she is playing you. She is 46 , not 12 ! Girls learn at a young age how to attract or not attract guys. It's not something she has to be ' taught ' by her husband!

 

There is open and closed body language. She is giving open , because she wants to. It really is that simple. You calling out on it is something that you will meet with self defense and attack.

 

I feel sorry for you.

[suspiciousH]

 

I feel sorry for you.

 

Don't feel too sorry for me. Even if I'm not wise (still a very open question in my mind) I'm still very healthy and wealthy.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Suspicious, sorry for the dilemma you are facing. What is your plan for the short term, the medium and the long term. How have you assessed your wife? Is it just innocent playfulness on her part or do you visualize a more dangerous play going on? I guess you will have to get more concrete evidence of inappropriate behaviour on her part to be able to take decisive action one way or another. However, having to live with suspicions and not being able to trust her a hundred per cent can be very demoralizing for you and I would think your wife would pick up on vibes that you give out making her, in turn, suspicious and thereby drive more distance between you two.

 

In any case whatever path you choose to follow, I wish you the best and hope that everything works out well for you. Have a good day.

[mikeylo]

Don't feel too sorry for me. Even if I'm not wise (still a very open question in my mind) I'm still very healthy and wealthy.

 

I feel sorry for all BS ! To live a life where you have to look over your shoulder all the time , ruins the beautiful thing called love that makes life worth living.

 

It's great that you are healthy and wealthy but if this continues, it's going to take a toll on your health very soon. Just know , it's not about you.

 

Take care.

[SammySammy]

Your body is here with me

But your mind is on the other side of town

You're messing me around

.

.

.

I'm the one that pays the bills

He's the one that gives you thrills

[suspiciousH]

Hi Suspicious, sorry for the dilemma you are facing. What is your plan for the short term, the medium and the long term. How have you assessed your wife? Is it just innocent playfulness on her part or do you visualize a more dangerous play going on?

 

Plan in the short run is to investigate using the methods I've learned from the great people on LS. Still need to decide how long to continue the investigation assuming I find nothing. My first thought was two months. Some on LS think that's too short, some think too long. I guess I'll have to play it by ear.

 

Unless proven wrong I continue to believe that she's faithful. But given that she's 46 I would be surprised if she wasn't starting to have thoughts and feelings not unusual for women of that age. She and I have talked about my worries and you're right that she can sense that I'm paying more attention to things, more so since posting my original message than ever before. To her credit I've noticed that she is trying in small ways to demonstrate the transparency that has been a hallmark of our marriage excepting the FB episode of three years ago.

 

Interestingly, although for the first two days of posting on LS my worries increased, over the last couple days my worries have decreased -- maybe owing to the fact that I'm focused on executing the plan. I just need to keep things in perspective as I carry out the investigation.

[suspiciousH]

Have you searched for the burner phone? If she was texting that much and it suddenly dropped off - she likely obtained a disposable phone so she shows no evidence.

 

Have you searched her car? Closet? Clothes including shoes? I always hide my valuables or extra keys in a pair of shoes or boots in my closet. A jacket pocket is always useful for stashing something as well. Maybe in a makeup drawer? What husband would look through a wife's makeup? Get what I'm saying?

 

Good points. I've looked around for a burner/charger; found nothing yet. But our house is large with numerous potential hiding places. So I'll be relying on the broadband receiver I get next week to provide answers.

[suspiciousH]

I feel sorry for all BS ! To live a life where you have to look over your shoulder all the time , ruins the beautiful thing called love that makes life worth living.

 

It's great that you are healthy and wealthy but if this continues, it's going to take a toll on your health very soon. Just know , it's not about you.

 

Take care.

 

Thanks, Mikey!

[Chaparral]

I'm a woman and I flip my hair out of habit without thinking about it. Also how do you not show your neck when it's attached to your head? Who knew that men are aroused by necks anyway. I agree that touching a man could be considered flirting but the other stuff is ridiculous.

 

Google body language. I'm not saying everyone that flirts is ready to jump

In the sack. But there are definite signals that people display that are subconscious or conscious. It would bother me more that my wife was subconsciously giving off multiple flirting signals. Especially if I wasn't receiving said signals and an increase in her attention. Cough, cough.

 

For now I think OP should get a var close to the computer she Skypes on . The Sony voice recorders are great and cost about $60 at bestbuy etc.

 

We rarely get rid of old cell phones at our house. See if you can find the one she was using at the time of the texting, and the time after her Facebook adventure. Check them all out if you can.

 

Unfortunately, you have enough red flags to go into full detective mode. By coming to a site like this with the red flags you already have, the odds she has cheated are extremely high. Of course we all hope there is nothing here but we are almost always disappointed.

 

Good luck

Chap

[Chaparral]

Your number one job is to make her believe you have absolutely no worries. The last thing you need is for her to become more careful.

 

Regarding the Facebook and texting. Look into finding deleted Facebook messages . It used to be possible but I'm not sure if that has changed. She mayhave been coached into something harder to catch. Particularly since she visited his locale soon afterward.

 

There are many ways to text and send pictures without getting caught now. Snapchat for example and many games. Check her app purchases to see if any have been bought and deleted or if any that are on her phone can be used for texting with out leaving a trail.

 

What was the context of her odd remark about her always loving you who matter what? Sorry, can't remember if that's how it was phrased. My first thought was that she was afraid you would be told something. My second thought was she suspected you of cheating.

[Mz. Pixie]

I sent her one article, not multiple. And like you I am hopeful that she isn't doing anything untoward.

 

The signs I mentioned are, I think, generally understood as a means to express romantic interest. Not only that but I don't remember her sending these types of signals before a couple years ago.

 

We're not from the South but I regularly visit my company offices around the world, including the South, and I understand etiquette and differences in social interaction across various cultures. Controlling? If I'm controlling because a relatively new set of behaviors makes me (similar to many attached guys) uncomfortable and I decide to make it a topic of conversation then I guess I'm controlling. But of course I don't see it that way.

 

Regardless if it's a means to express interest or not- or ifs guy begins to gain interest after that- she can still say no.

 

You ever heard the term "it doesn't matter where you get your appetite as long as you eat at home?" My H is flirted with all the time. Doesn't bother me. He's not interested in anyone else. I compliment him but sometimes it gets the juices flowing to hear it from someone else. No harm in that to me.

 

I would think it was strange if I received a video like that from anyone I was with. To me it says "keep yourself in check honey". And I'm grown!

[Mz. Pixie]

I am pulling for you!

 

I was very fortunate to learn the skill of visualization (a Buddhist thing) in my 20s. Among other benefits it helped me connect deeply with the potential consequences of my actions. For example, like any red-blooded man I have been attracted to a handful of women over the years, especially when an attractive women has expressed strong interest in me. More times than I would care to admit I found myself fantasizing about the woman. But I made sure to play out the "whole fantasy" in my mind, meaning that I would continue the fantasy to include not only the sex and the exciting stuff abut also my wife's discovery, her heartbreak, divorce, and separation from my kids. Once mastered visualization is a very powerful practice.

Visualization has also helped me attain many of my educational and professional goals by creating a strong conviction/desire that enabled me to take the necessary steps to get much of what I wanted out of life.

 

So it's okay for you to have these fantasy affairs with these women? Have you told your wife about this? After all she's not supposed to flip her hair but you're doing this behind her back?

 

This is emotional infidelity too. I'm sure you don't see it that way I'm just pointing out that you have done some things as well.

[Mz. Pixie]

By the way-I'm truly not attacking you.

 

This happened three years ago.

 

Here is some advice I haven't seen.

 

Tonight bring her computer down or bring her up to it and say

"In the interest of transparency please give me your Skype password and your email password right now".

 

Make her do it in front of you and right then. I don't believe this is tipping your hand. This has been going on long enough.

 

Log on in front of her and look.

 

I've been here a very long time. She could be cheating of course and I'm not siding with her. I'm just pointing out a few things other posters have not.

 

Do it tonight. It's crazy to live like this.

 

You'll be able to tell from her immediate reaction. If she's guilty. If she hesitates at all that's the deal.

[suspiciousH]

So it's okay for you to have these fantasy affairs with these women? Have you told your wife about this? After all she's not supposed to flip her hair but you're doing this behind her back?

 

This is emotional infidelity too. I'm sure you don't see it that way I'm just pointing out that you have done some things as well.

 

You have got to be kidding me. You mean to tell me that everyone who has occasional sexual fantasies (in my case followed by the "whole fantasy") that have never translated into any form of action (including pursuit) is guilty of emotional infidelity? That would effectively mean that everyone on Earth is a cheater. Listen, I've read some of your posts and your background and experiences are radically different from my own and so I would fully expect our philosophies to be equally different and unlikely to ever be reconciled.

 

Have I told my wife? Absolutely. She is well aware of the reasons for my visualization and meditation practice and has been for nearly two decades. She also knows about everyone woman who has expressed strong interest in me. She knows about the financial analyst 15 years my junior who kept sending me unsolicited personal emails in an attempt to build an emotional bridge. She knows about the CMO who repeatedly tried to convince me to attend a conference alone with her. She knows about the HR analyst and who made (unreturned) sexual comments to me. And so on and so forth. Like I said, transparency has been a hallmark of our marriage.

[suspiciousH]

Your number one job is to make her believe you have absolutely no worries. The last thing you need is for her to become more careful.

 

Regarding the Facebook and texting. Look into finding deleted Facebook messages . It used to be possible but I'm not sure if that has changed. She mayhave been coached into something harder to catch. Particularly since she visited his locale soon afterward.

 

There are many ways to text and send pictures without getting caught now. Snapchat for example and many games. Check her app purchases to see if any have been bought and deleted or if any that are on her phone can be used for texting with out leaving a trail.

 

What was the context of her odd remark about her always loving you who matter what? Sorry, can't remember if that's how it was phrased. My first thought was that she was afraid you would be told something. My second thought was she suspected you of cheating.

 

Thanks, Chap. Unfortunately I don't remember the exact context of the "always with you" comment. But I think it followed a discussion of my worries last October.

[suspiciousH]

Have you attempted to log into her skype account? Has she ever stated who she skypes with?

 

I've logged into her Skype using her email address but found nothing. My concern is that she could be using an account I don't know about, and that why I asked my earlier question about how I might find a list of accounts used to login to Skype on a given PC. I think ActivTrak (thanks guys!) will answer that question.

[Maraud3r]

Regardless if it's a means to express interest or not- or ifs guy begins to gain interest after that- she can still say no.

 

You ever heard the term "it doesn't matter where you get your appetite as long as you eat at home?"

Sorry but, what? There is a HUGE difference between looking at people and possible mental cinema and actually engaging with another person. Feeling someone up, flirting with them and opening a door that should be firmly closed is a red flag. And not to be explained with "getting appetite somewhere else" anymore.

 

My H is flirted with all the time. Doesn't bother me. He's not interested in anyone else. I compliment him but sometimes it gets the juices flowing to hear it from someone else.

It's not about her being flirted with, it's about HER FLIRTING WITH OTHERS. Being chat up and talked to is one thing, however not closing that door and giving a firm rejection to it, instead inviting further advances and flirting back is an entirely different one.

No harm in that to me.

This might be shocking to you but not everyone is you! I know, astonishing concept that.

 

To me it says "keep yourself in check honey". And I'm grown!

Well apparently not grown enough to understand that not everyone is you and that other people have different boundaries and that flirting with other people, feeling them up etc might be stepping over the line for some.

 

It's him giving her the benefit of the doubt that her behaviour was indeed unintentional and not meant to convey what it did.

 

If you want to be grown, flirt with people, feel them up and possibly escalate further you are indeed free to do that. However you will find that many partners will not take you violating their boundaries and the integrity of your relationship lying down. This is not a case of someone banning you from doing something but merely telling you that if you do, it will have consequences such as them walking out on your or throwing you out.

 

I've logged into her Skype using her email address but found nothing. My concern is that she could be using an account I don't know about, and that why I asked my earlier question about how I might find a list of accounts used to login to Skype on a given PC. I think ActivTrak (thanks guys!) will answer that question.

Did you use her computer? It often has logs for each account one logged into. And when logged out it will display "accounts" which were logged into using it unless all of it was purged.