Still in love with [OW]

[ItsColdAsCrapInAlaska]

I can't disagree with this, but I would mention that it's not uncommon for a ws to feel they are doing what their bs needs and are stumped as to why it doesn't help them move forward.

 

They say they read the books, watched the videos, did whatever. They are regurgitating Dr. Phil quotes in every sentence, but the bs still isn't changing. The answer to this is simple.

 

In those cases, the ws is acting without empathy. They are doing what they think they would help them if they were a bs but that may be the last thing their bs needs.

 

One thing a bs needs more than anything else is truth. I'm not talking about doing this is cruel way, but rather, being honest. A bs's radar is often working in overdrive, and anything, even if it's just a passing wistful look on the face of their ws , can put them right back to square one, and they will know something is up.

 

At least if the ws is honest, the bs knows where they stand and can make decisions based on that. they aren't being lied to and gaslighteed.

 

 

You have not lived in my house to know, or read the 4 journal books of 200+ pages to know my empathy, heart, regret, repentance, my pain and tears soaked pages of my Bible which I have read thru 4.5 times in 5 years.....my frustration here is that without any knowledge most people here coming down on me. Of course I am defensive. Would you not be?

 

I have empathy for her, but five years of letting her use that excuse is wearing thin. Five years at this point even the best therapist I know and still see is enough time to move forward. At this point I am enabling her stuckness (I know its not a word) by allowing her to control every issue 'in light of the fact I cheated'.

 

Why is every assuming I have not done anything or walked in her shoes or cared for her?

 

My frustration here toward the attitude to me combined with the unforgiveness has gotten my anger up. You want to ask what I have done...ask I will answer. But stop judging me

[knabe]

If you knew my story, you would understand why I am posting the way i am. You and I have more incommon than you might think.

 

I completely understand why you are frustrated by your wife. being punished and defined by one season of your life ad nauseum is....ridiculous. There I said it. After 5 years, poop or get off the pot. And I am referring to her. If you still need to use the A as the trump card for everything after 5 years, you're not gonna forgive and recover. Just divorce your WS. Because all they will ever be to you is a WS.

 

The thing I am responding to is YOUR attitude. The defiance and anger and just plain rudeness and sarcasm. The PRIDE. See, a repentant WS, even one who is tired of being pummeled by their BS for years, will still have humility and brokenness about THEIR actions. Your attitude says loud and clear: I read the verses and cried the tears. I'm done. Get over it.

 

I have made some very wrong choices in my life. I feel complete peace at having been forgiven and redeemed. But, when I refer to those times, my heart still aches in that I regret them, and I still feel a sense of humbleness and awe that a holy, perfect God showed me such grace and forgiveness.

 

I see NONE of that in you. You are beating your cheat and attacking us. It is the antithesis of what a Christian man does when discussing his sin.

[Southern Sun]

I'm sorry for jumping to conclusions about you, if I did. I'm a fWW.

 

I also TRY to have a relationship with God, and things would be so much simpler if I could always just put into practice what He says. If I could have blind faith and let go of the rest.

 

But sometimes I wonder if things aren't so black and white. Are they? I don't know. Maybe God intends for them to be. It would be easier on our hearts. But then...they don't FEEL that way, most of the time. Are we the ones making things hard? Perhaps!

 

I tend to agree with you that a sin is a sin is a sin. Yes, you cheated, but it sounds like she did other things that have not upheld the marriage. However, there are really only a couple of things that God allows divorce for in the bible, and infidelity is one of them.

 

That's where I get stuck, personally. I don't know how much we're supposed to adhere to that. If your wife has shut down, and it's been 5 long years, I don't know if any person would make you feel bad for going. You tried. It just didn't work.

 

In another 5 years, or 10, what will you regret more: not giving a different life a chance, or not trying longer to repair your marriage?

[ItsColdAsCrapInAlaska]

I'm sorry for jumping to conclusions about you, if I did. I'm a fWW.

 

I also TRY to have a relationship with God, and things would be so much simpler if I could always just put into practice what He says. If I could have blind faith and let go of the rest.

 

But sometimes I wonder if things aren't so black and white. Are they? I don't know. Maybe God intends for them to be. It would be easier on our hearts. But then...they don't FEEL that way, most of the time. Are we the ones making things hard? Perhaps!

 

I tend to agree with you that a sin is a sin is a sin. Yes, you cheated, but it sounds like she did other things that have not upheld the marriage. However, there are really only a couple of things that God allows divorce for in the bible, and infidelity is one of them.

 

That's where I get stuck, personally. I don't know how much we're supposed to adhere to that. If your wife has shut down, and it's been 5 long years, I don't know if any person would make you feel bad for going. You tried. It just didn't work.

 

In another 5 years, or 10, what will you regret more: not giving a different life a chance, or not trying longer to repair your marriage?

 

Thank you, your approach is much nicer and helpful. I have more to say but my time is gone for the day. Perhaps I can address this more tomorrow

[ItsColdAsCrapInAlaska]

If you knew my story, you would understand why I am posting the way i am. You and I have more incommon than you might think.

 

I completely understand why you are frustrated by your wife. being punished and defined by one season of your life ad nauseum is....ridiculous. There I said it. After 5 years, poop or get off the pot. And I am referring to her. If you still need to use the A as the trump card for everything after 5 years, you're not gonna forgive and recover. Just divorce your WS. Because all they will ever be to you is a WS.

 

The thing I am responding to is YOUR attitude. The defiance and anger and just plain rudeness and sarcasm. The PRIDE. See, a repentant WS, even one who is tired of being pummeled by their BS for years, will still have humility and brokenness about THEIR actions. Your attitude says loud and clear: I read the verses and cried the tears. I'm done. Get over it.

 

I have made some very wrong choices in my life. I feel complete peace at having been forgiven and redeemed. But, when I refer to those times, my heart still aches in that I regret them, and I still feel a sense of humbleness and awe that a holy, perfect God showed me such grace and forgiveness.

 

I see NONE of that in you. You are beating your cheat and attacking us. It is the antithesis of what a Christian man does when discussing his sin.

 

Who attacked who first? I defended myself I did not judge you. My sarcasm came from a place that after dozens of attacks here, I realized, each of you have a preconceived notion based upon experience and make judgments based on such, so forgive me for throwing up my defenses. I have heard it all before and continue to at home. Perhaps its time to call it done with the wife.

[wmacbride]

Again read the posts.....I have seen a therapist, counselor, pastor, marriage intensive week mmm lets see ballpark 300 hours....I am not pining....i think I established that back on page 2....

 

Sigh...

 

You still don't get it.

 

Ever heard the saying that perception is nine tenths of reality.

 

That's likely what is going on here.

 

You see yourself as having done all this work, seen therapists, pastors, what have you, but can you honestly say you have healed? Has your wife?

 

Just as an exercise, what do you think your wife went trough when she found it you had been cheating? What do you think went through her mind? What was her first thought? What next? How did she feel the next day? The next week? What does she think about you when she sees your face? Way down deep inside, in a place she will probably never ever in a million years show you, you have wounded her to her core, rocked her self esteem and shown that you can't be trusted.

 

I know you are probably sitting there, angry that I would say such a thing. I also expect that you are discounting what I have to say, as I am only a bs and couldn't possibly understand what you are going through.

 

Sir, I would suggest to you that it is the bs who you should be paying strict attention to...and I am not just speaking about myself. Read through some of the other threads penned by bs. Listen to their words and how they have been hurt with an open mind and not just one that is scanning through to find what supports your point of view.

 

btw, I'm not christian, but two of the most important tenners of said religion seem to be forgiveness, honesty and treating others the way you would like to be treated.

 

Ask yourself if you have been following these through your reconciliation. Have you actively ( and not just through lip service) forgiven your wife for what you say she has done to you? Are you being 100 percent honest with her? Have you treated her the way you would like to be treated post-a?

 

as for the hours in therapy, speaking to pastors, meh. My husband did the same damned thing. At first, he got about as much of of it as you seem to have to-he had(s) combat PTSD- he sat int he cahir he answered the questions, he said all the right things...but none one bit of it was really reaching him.

 

The hardest thing to face sometimes is ourselves.

 

btw, you say you want to reconcile. If so, then you had better start listening to people who have walked in your shoes and in those of your wife.

[BTDT2012]

Who attacked who first? I defended myself I did not judge you. My sarcasm came from a place that after dozens of attacks here, I realized, each of you have a preconceived notion based upon experience and make judgments based on such, so forgive me for throwing up my defenses. I have heard it all before and continue to at home. Perhaps its time to call it done with the wife.

 

Perhaps it is. My suggestion is that you pray about it. I do have a question for you. Did you embark on your bible/faith studies with a primary intent of saving your marriage? Also, is your wife also looking to the bible/faith for answers?

[wmacbride]

You have not lived in my house to know, or read the 4 journal books of 200+ pages to know my empathy, heart, regret, repentance, my pain and tears soaked pages of my Bible which I have read thru 4.5 times in 5 years.....my frustration here is that without any knowledge most people here coming down on me. Of course I am defensive. Would you not be?

 

I have empathy for her, but five years of letting her use that excuse is wearing thin. Five years at this point even the best therapist I know and still see is enough time to move forward. At this point I am enabling her stuckness (I know its not a word) by allowing her to control every issue 'in light of the fact I cheated'.

 

Why is every assuming I have not done anything or walked in her shoes or cared for her?

 

My frustration here toward the attitude to me combined with the unforgiveness has gotten my anger up. You want to ask what I have done...ask I will answer. But stop judging me

 

Why do you think the attitude is here? it's not just from bs and ow/om by the way. You have a sample of a large group all giving advice that's along the same lines. It may not all be said with the same tact and gentleness, but it's still largely the same. Why do you think that is?

 

Your wife is likley continuing to bring it up because she is still hurt.

 

btw, some of your statements sound kind of off. I did some checking myself, and most experts believe that it can take at least two years before any real healing begins for the bs, and that is under the best of circumstances where there is no love lost for the ow/om and the ws is really trying.

 

The last sentence there says it all. You say you are not pining, but these were your very first words on here "Still in love with [OW]" , and the post ended with:

 

"Not a day goes by where I don't think of the OW. Almost 5 years later, she is in my heart still, no matter how much I have shut her out (and I have).

 

Is this true love to last this long? This is not a few months later after D-Day, this has been years......"

 

You say you are not pining. but if the roles were reversed and she wrote this about her ex-mm after all this time, what would you think about her feelings for him? Would you think she was pining?

[Whoknew30]

Sigh...

 

You still don't get it.

 

Ever heard the saying that perception is nine tenths of reality.

 

That's likely what is going on here.

 

You see yourself as having done all this work, seen therapists, pastors, what have you, but can you honestly say you have healed? Has your wife?

 

Just as an exercise, what do you think your wife went trough when she found it you had been cheating? What do you think went through her mind? What was her first thought? What next? How did she feel the next day? The next week? What does she think about you when she sees your face? Way down deep inside, in a place she will probably never ever in a million years show you, you have wounded her to her core, rocked her self esteem and shown that you can't be trusted.

 

I know you are probably sitting there, angry that I would say such a thing. I also expect that you are discounting what I have to say, as I am only a bs and couldn't possibly understand what you are going through.

 

Sir, I would suggest to you that it is the bs who you should be paying strict attention to...and I am not just speaking about myself. Read through some of the other threads penned by bs. Listen to their words and how they have been hurt with an open mind and not just one that is scanning through to find what supports your point of view.

 

btw, I'm not christian, but two of the most important tenners of said religion seem to be forgiveness, honesty and treating others the way you would like to be treated.

 

Ask yourself if you have been following these through your reconciliation. Have you actively ( and not just through lip service) forgiven your wife for what you say she has done to you? Are you being 100 percent honest with her? Have you treated her the way you would like to be treated post-a?

 

as for the hours in therapy, speaking to pastors, meh. My husband did the same damned thing. At first, he got about as much of of it as you seem to have to-he had(s) combat PTSD- he sat int he cahir he answered the questions, he said all the right things...but none one bit of it was really reaching him.

 

The hardest thing to face sometimes is ourselves.

 

btw, you say you want to reconcile. If so, then you had better start listening to people who have walked in your shoes and in those of your wife.

 

Yes but being hurt does not give a BS an ok to continue to make someone pay for years bc that is not real reconciliation either...& personally think "some" BS think that's ok, it's not. If a BS can't get through it, there's nothing wrong with that but they also need not to be using reconciling as a way to get back at the WS...it comes to a point if one can't forgive, they need to let it go. Not hold on & continue the hurt.

 

Just bc a WS doesn't hate or still cares for their AP doesn't mean they haven't really done the work to try in their marriage. Not every marriage is going to survive infidelity but after 5 years & councilors at what point does a BS own for themselves they just can't get over it? You're right, people do need to look at themselves & that also includes a BS.

 

I will always think it's ironic that someone will say there's absolutely no reason for an affair (which I do agree) but then ok a BS behaving badly bc they were hurt. Everyone he control of their actions & how they treat others. One can't chastise someone for bad behavior but then ok their own bc they were hurt. It's just completely hypocritical logic. People have the right to be hurt but everyone has control of how they behave towards their spouse...that's what reconciliation is based on, coming together healthy. Not about having a upper hand.

[wmacbride]

Yes but being hurt does not give a BS an ok to continue to make someone pay for years bc that is not real reconciliation either...& personally think "some" BS think that's ok, it's not. If a BS can't get through it, there's nothing wrong with that but they also need not to be using reconciling as a way to get back at the WS...it comes to a point if one can't forgive, they need to let it go. Not hold on & continue the hurt.

 

Just bc a WS doesn't hate or still cares for their AP doesn't mean they haven't really done the work to try in their marriage. Not every marriage is going to survive infidelity but after 5 years & councilors at what point does a BS own for themselves they just can't get over it? You're right, people do need to look at themselves & that also includes a BS.

 

I will always think it's ironic that someone will say there's absolutely no reason for an affair (which I do agree) but then ok a BS behaving badly bc they were hurt. Everyone he control of their actions & how they treat others. One can't chastise someone for bad behavior but then ok their own bc they were hurt. It's just completely hypocritical logic. People have the right to be hurt but everyone has control of how they behave towards their spouse...that's what reconciliation is based on, coming together healthy. Not about having a upper hand.

 

I get what you are saying, and there is a huge degree of difference between a ws having fleeting pleasant thoughts about the om/ow and what the op wrote in his very first post.

 

Do you think that is not bleeding through? That she can't sense that, doesn't feel safe and is just waiting for him to walk out the door? If she has any sense at all, she's likely not allowing herself to care for him , as if she does, he could hurt her all over again. Given his first post, can you really blame her?

 

In his wife's shoes, how would you feel?

[lostgirl87]

I get what you are saying, and there is a huge degree of difference between a ws having fleeting pleasant thoughts about the om/ow and what the op wrote in his very first post.

 

Do you think that is not bleeding through? That she can't sense that, doesn't feel safe and is just waiting for him to walk out the door? If she has any sense at all, she's likely not allowing herself to care for him , as if she does, he could hurt her all over again. Given his first post, can you really blame her?

 

In his wife's shoes, how would you feel?

That's all fine and dandy but if it IS coming through, why is BW still there? If her husband is still in love with the other woman, then she needs to end the marriage. She doesn't get a pass to be emotionally abusive or punish her husband for the way he feels if she is willingly staying and putting up with it.

 

In this instance, both OP and his wife are in the wrong only b/c they've allowed the relationship to get to this point. Their marriage is clearly not working after trying for 5 years so why stay? It's absurd.

 

I don't blame you, Ray,for whatever feelings you have. If you still love or care for or want to try to be with your OW then that's ok. you can't help how you feel, you tried to move on and fix the marriage but it didn't work. Now what IS on you is the years of misery you have settled for and allowed you and your wife to go through. I do believe you did what you needed to do to try and rebuild but it didn't work out. If things didn't improve in 5 years they're not going to improve now. Best to divorce and each of y'all go your separate ways.

[wmacbride]

btw, op, here is a link you might like to take a look at. it might explain some of the disconnect between where your wife is emotionally and where you think she should be.

 

https://www.aamft.org/iMIS15/AAMFT/Content/consumer_updates/infidelity.aspx

 

I looked for one with professional credentials and not just "fluff" ( you sound like a person who appreciates sources)

 

One of the things it noted is that, for a reconciliation to be a success, there has to be no contact between the former affair partners, and if they have to be around each other because of work, the contact should be strictly professional.

 

You may have cut off physical and verbal contact with your ow, but mentally, you aren't there. Mentally, you are still with her, and your heart belongs to her. There is a huge difference between having fond memories and maybe an occasional wistful thought about "the other",, but that is not even in the same city as you saying you are still in love with your ow.

 

Have you ever actually sat down with your wife and told her how you feel about your ow? Sort of laid it all out, bare bones and all so she could at least know where she stands and what she is up against, or have you swallowed that and expressed it in other ways?

 

I just find it so odd that the same guy who is harping on his wife for not reconciling and healing according to his timetable and checklist is the same guy who wrote the first post you did. Those don't even go together. it would be very different if you said you loved her and couldn't understand why she wasn't responding, but instead, you still love another woman and wonder why your wife isn't acting loving towards you. Do you see how those two statements don't gel? Why are YOU not holding yourself to the same standard? Why are YOU not on here asking how you can get over the ow and find love again with your bs. Why is she the only one who should have to move forward?

 

You don't sound like a bad guy, but you do sound like a guy who is really confused and running from yourself because it doesn't jive with who you want to be. Give yourself, and your wife, a break here. Sit her down and have a no holds barred talk with her about how you feel, what you need from her and that you still have these strong feelings for your ow. Ask her if she wants to stay with a man who doesn't really care that much for her and is only staying because of ????????? ( why exactly are you staying anyway?)

[wmacbride]

That's all fine and dandy but if it IS coming through, why is BW still there? If her husband is still in love with the other woman, then she needs to end the marriage. She doesn't get a pass to be emotionally abusive or punish her husband for the way he feels if she is willingly staying and putting up with it.

 

In this instance, both OP and his wife are in the wrong only b/c they've allowed the relationship to get to this point. Their marriage is clearly not working after trying for 5 years so why stay? It's absurd.

 

I don't blame you, Ray,for whatever feelings you have. If you still love or care for or want to try to be with your OW then that's ok. you can't help how you feel, you tried to move on and fix the marriage but it didn't work. Now what IS on you is the years of misery you have settled for and allowed you and your wife to go through. I do believe you did what you needed to do to try and rebuild but it didn't work out. If things didn't improve in 5 years they're not going to improve now. Best to divorce and each of y'all go your separate ways.

 

What has he actually DONE, besides doing some reading and seeing a therapist/pastor?

 

What has he done for his wife? He could have done tons, he could have done nothing. We don't know.

 

How is his wife actually punishing him for the A? What is she doing? Is it a case of her triggering and being upset when she sees something that reminds him of the A ( which happens a lot) or is she nagging at him all the time? Does she get sad when she hears a song about cheating on the radio, or is she getting sad every time she opens the fridge to get a glass of milk?

 

Many bs still grieve years after the A. Some don't. It depends on the person. If the op hasn't been honest with his wife and told her the extent of his feelings, she is flying blind. Quite frankly, I doubt there's anythings he could be doing right now that would help the situation. By his own words, he only broke up with the ow because he was afraid of getting caught.

 

" It was ugly, the breakup, basically she threatened to tell the wife and I beat her to it. hell broke loose on many levels. I broke it off with her that day and have not spoken to her since...."

 

Does his wife know this, or did he lie to her and pretend he was coming clean out of a sense of honesty? During the counseling sessions they went to, was he honest there, or is he lying and saying he loves her and is gaslighting her?

 

Op, you probably hate me, as I have given you a hard time. I am sorry for that, but you and your wife both sound really unhappy, and I don't see why you stay together. faith seems to be a large part of it, but if god loves you, why would he want you both to be so miserable? That doesn't make any sense. If he could forgive you cheating, then surely, he could forgive a divorce if both the husband and wife are fundamentally miserable and there is no relief in sight.

Edited June 29, 2017 by wmacbride

[Starswillshine]

You haven't done everything to reconcile. You can't reconcile while your mind is elsewhere. It doesn't work. You can read all the books in the world, sit on every therapist' s couch, pray, etc.... But if you are constantly thinking about the ow, then reconciliation cannot happen. Your wife will feel it. Trust me, she feels it. Maybe you are thinking about the ow due to your wife's harshness. Maybe she is being harsh due to feeling your distance and longing for OW. What came first? The chicken or the egg? Does it matter?

 

You are not NC with the ow. You may not speak to her nor see her, but you are checking up on her. That is still contact. #1 rule of reconciling... strict NC.

 

No one can tell you if it is true love. I don't think anyone can have that answer to a relationship that was only conducted as an affair. Too much mud in the water to say either way.

[OpenBook]

No blame. We all make our choices....As I said the Vows are more than keeping the briefs on when you leave the house. There is so much more you don't know...I do not make excuses. I did what I did. I should have left before I cheated. I own that. ANY, and I do mean ANY book that you read on infidelity and restoration, will tell the BS to evaluate their own investment into the marriage and own what they did or did not do. Blame? No.....cause and effect, absolutely. You can not restore a marriage if both do not admit and come to terms what they did, seek and grant forgiveness. Without those things, restoration is not going to happen.

 

So - do you suspect that your W's refusal to come to the table and work on your marriage has something to do with your lingering feelings toward the OW? Is there a "cause and effect" somewhere in there, you think? Is that why you asked the question you did ("Is this love I'm feeling for the OW?") in your opening post?

 

If you shut your eyes and conjured up the ideal outcome to all this, who are you with? Is it your W and your M restored to the happy state I'm assuming it was at the beginning of your M? or is it a brand-new life with your OW? or none of the above?

 

What do you really want to happen? If you can answer that for yourself, it might help answer your original question in the OP.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Here we go again, cheating is the worser of sins....

 

I am fully aware of what I did, no one is more aware!

 

"Here we go again". ?????

 

 

I didnt see that referenced anywhere. So where does the "again" come from?

 

Have you confused this thread with maybe another of "yours"?

[dichotomy]

IF you asked for forgiveness from your wife and your God, with true sorrow in your heart - you are forgiven by God. Your wife is commanded to forgive you as well, (not that she has to forget or stay with you). If she does not then she (not you) is continuing to act against God's wish for her - your done.

 

Cheating is a sin, but the true issue is lack of remorse or seeking forgiveness. You did those . Forgive yourself, God wants it. Leave her, its allowed under several variations/views of scripture here (adultery, non believer, unequal yoke).

 

From a non religious standpoint - if you can find more peace, love or relief elsewhere - do it. It will also provide relief for your wife - so do it for her to set her free.

[Popsicle]

Was the OW single or married?

[deadsoul]

I could write a long story here of what happened and why, and I realize that there are those who no matter what you say will slam you for having an affair, but the short of it is this. I fell in love with the OW. We had an affair that lasted almost 1.5 years. I have never connected with a woman on a primal and caring level as her. Hands down, she got me, who I was and loved me without limits. It was ugly, the breakup, basically she threatened to tell the wife and I beat her to it. hell broke loose on many levels. I broke it off with her that day and have not spoken to her since....

 

Fast forward almost 5 years...still have not seen her or contacted her. ZERO CONTACT. I have been to counseling, therapy, pastoral advisement, etc...While I care for my wife as a partner in family and business, we are not alike at all. We speak two different languages of love, processes, faith, children, money....you name it we do not communicate. Life is horribly empty, dreadful and the thing is she thinks its normal. She has not forgiven me, constantly berates me over my actions 5 years ago. Her bitterness is so vain, she is blind to it all. However, neither of us is willing to file for divorce. Only 1 kid left at home...1 more year. She says she loves me but does nothing to show it prove it or let it be known.

 

I feel like a lot of posters are responding to this part I bolded, OP. Even though you don't have a question here, I think this piece of your original post is why you are getting some of the reactions you are.

 

Not a day goes by where I don't think of the OW. Almost 5 years later, she is in my heart still, no matter how much I have shut her out (and I have).

 

Is this true love to last this long? This is not a few months later after D-Day, this has been years......

 

In answer to your question, only you know the answer to that. If you would like me to presume to know you, your situation and your OW, I could give you an answer, but that wouldn't be fair. The bigger question might be why are you still thinking about her? I think a lot of people here are responding to your question this way because based on what you wrote above, you are miserable in your marriage, so OM might be a fantasy for you of what you think happiness will be.

 

 

Help!

 

The only way to find out if it's true love is to leave the situation you're in and take a chance to find out. It might be. It might not be, but you'll never know unless you try. I wish you peace, OP.

[donbar]

Reach out to your OW.

 

I wish I could but I know I can't.

[mercy]

Reach out to your OW.

 

I wish I could but I know I can't.

 

Please don't do this Ray. Not until you have divorce papers in hand.

 

If you love her leave her be.

[minimariah]

That's all fine and dandy but if it IS coming through, why is BW still there?

 

for the same reasons he is.

[Popsicle]

So my simple little question before I was attacked was is it love I feel for the OW or something else. Normally, time heals, moves on, forgets.....on her, its another thought.

 

I appreciate you sticking up for yourself, Ray. BS's tend to be, as you put it, vain. If a WS wasn't getting their needs met by their spouse before the affair, they for damn sure aren't going to get their needs met after the discovery of an affair. Sanctimoniousness rules the day from here on out and as a WS you either cowtow to that or say goodbye.

 

Anyways, to answer your question. I DO think married people who stay in an unhappy marriage after an affair have a more difficult time forgetting about their former lover. This is because they have no good feelings currently to hold onto coming from their marriage. So the thoughts linger about their former lover, they daydream about them, in especially bad times, they hold onto the good memories and hopefulness about their OW/OM. It's one reason why some people become serial cheaters - to get that feeling again. Imagine if you were in a prison in a foreign place and you had to sit in that dark dank dirty cell day after day. What would you think about to help you get through the days? You might think about the things that made you happy when you were free, things you can't do now, good feelings you had, feelings you don't feel now, or you might think about the good things you hope to do when you get out of the prison. Anything to not be consumed by the sadness, depression, anger and hopelessness that you could so easily drown in due to the grim circumstances. I think many married people feel like they are trapped and absolutely can't get out. If you feel this way, I honestly don't see how in 1 year when your kid leaves you will be able to leave your marriage then either. I'm sure it goes deeper than just having minor kids at home. I do wish you luck though. I hope you find a slice of happiness somehow.

 

As for the OW, she is just an image, a representation of happiness. Something better than what you have now. It really could be another woman, any woman, as long as she helps take you to a happier place than the woman you are with now, your wife, does.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Popsicle

[OpenBook]

As for the OW, she is just an image, a representation of happiness. Something better than what you have now. It really could be another woman, any woman, as long as she helps take you to a happier place than the woman you are with now, your wife, does.

 

Totally agree and I suspect that is what is at play here (although only Ray can really answer that). But IME it's dangerous to look to others to "take you to a happier place"... It's up to Ray - not his W, his OW, or anyone else - to define and carve out that happiness for himself, no? It's always been that way for me. But I've never been in a long-term M, so that rule may not apply there, I don't know? Can a person be responsible for their own happiness when everything is so intertwined with their spouse?

[jenkins95]

Hi Ray!

 

Joining the thread a little late, but I would like to extend a (((big hug))) to you as one fWH to another. I do relate a lot to what you are going through. My A was about the same length and I too developed feelings for the OW. However, at nearly two years out, despite being still hugely damaged (as is my W), I seem to be faring a little better than you. It must be awful to be stuck where you are after 5 years. But with the right help, I truly hope you find happinness and if we can help in any small way then all the better.

 

Like you, I still think of the OW most days, but possibly in a different way. In my case the focus is not that she is "the one" or that I secretly pine to have her back. It's more of a feeling of guilt that she got very hurt by the affair and that she possibly hates me. Do you think that this could be the same reason for your lingering thoughts deep down and you are confusing them for love? I know my focus should be on my marriage and 99% of it really is - but in my marriage, I can SEE the ups and downs, the hurts, the lows, the highs, the set backs, the genuine recovery, the sad, the happy, the love. In the case of the OW, of course, I have no visibility of this and the image in my mind is of a broke woman at the end of the A. This is hard to shake and makes me feel very guilty. It is hard to live with, but I have to remind myself of a few things: -

 

1. If I'd left my M for my AP, it is certain that any real relationship that we would have built together would have been very different to the fantasy life we were living in the A and would have left a trail of destruction in it's wake which would have put huge additional strain on it. The relationship very likely wouldn't have lasted due to all the reasons we see trotted out 100s times on these forums and that I myself have posted about.

 

2. I also have to remind myself that although the OW was hurt, she was not entirely innocent. Just as I made a bad choice to be in an A, so did she. She willingly dated a married amn and tried to tempt him away from his family, while cheating on her own BF. She was no angel any more than I was.

 

I still feel very guilty that she got hurt, but this should be born in mind.

 

I think there is a lot of wisdom in this post from pops.

 

I appreciate you sticking up for yourself, Ray. BS's tend to be, as you put it, vain. If a WS wasn't getting their needs met by their spouse before the affair, they for damn sure aren't going to get their needs met after the discovery of an affair. Sanctimoniousness rules the day from here on out and as a WS you either cowtow to that or say goodbye.

 

Anyways, to answer your question. I DO think married people who stay in an unhappy marriage after an affair have a more difficult time forgetting about their former lover. This is because they have no good feelings currently to hold onto coming from their marriage. So the thoughts linger about their former lover, they daydream about them, in especially bad times, they hold onto the good memories and hopefulness about their OW/OM. It's one reason why some people become serial cheaters - to get that feeling again. Imagine if you were in a prison in a foreign place and you had to sit in that dark dank dirty cell day after day. What would you think about to help you get through the days? You might think about the things that made you happy when you were free, things you can't do now, good feelings you had, feelings you don't feel now, or you might think about the good things you hope to do when you get out of the prison. Anything to not be consumed by the sadness, depression, anger and hopelessness that you could so easily drown in due to the grim circumstances. I think many married people feel like they are trapped and absolutely can't get out. If you feel this way, I honestly don't see how in 1 year when your kid leaves you will be able to leave your marriage then either. I'm sure it goes deeper than just having minor kids at home. I do wish you luck though. I hope you find a slice of happiness somehow.

 

As for the OW, she is just an image, a representation of happiness. Something better than what you have now. It really could be another woman, any woman, as long as she helps take you to a happier place than the woman you are with now, your wife, does.

 

 

I agree that the OW was likely not "the one" and that you are not necessarily in love with her nor should you be with her. In fact the idea of "the one" is pretty much universally dismissed. In your mind, she has become a kind of symbolic abstraction - an idealised archetype of what a relationship COULD be like, if you were "freed" from your marriage and allowed to pursue it. I agree that this role could be filled by pretty much any other woman that is compatible with you in ways your wife is not.

 

Due to this, it is very likely that you are idealising her - and I did the same myself. Cliched though it is, it is true that during a typical affair, the APs generally see each other only in their very best light. As time together is precious and secretive and often takes a lot of planning to arrange, the APs are always fully focussed on each other when together, excited, eager to please, looking good, smelling good. Everything is focussed on their time together and making the most of every second - making love every time with an intensity like it could be the last time (because that could very possibly be true), all that newness, all that discovery and the illicit nature, and the fact that both are complicit in an exlcusive secret only adds to the bond. None of the boredom, monotony and drudgery of real life creeps into this and the APs see each other as perfect - made for each other - the one. It is like a fantasy and it is no wonder that, whilst under this spell, a normal marriage can seem pretty dull by comparison.

 

And this, as in your case, can extend well beyond the affair is over. If your marriage is still unsatisfying, you will of course crave the A and idealise it, even if the reality of having a "normal" realtionship with that AP could (and surely would) have been very different. After all, parties are great, but we can't live our lives in perpectual party mode - at some point bills have to be paid, and the rubbish taken out (and all those other cliches!).

 

So I think your thoughts and movements at the moment should be purely about the marriage. Try to separate this from thoughts of the OW or any other woman. You paint a pretty miserable picture, but deep down, do you have any hope at all for the M? Are there things that your wife could do to bring about a change in your mindset and have you two connected again? Deep down, have you (and/or your W) completely and irreversibly checked out of the M? Do you even know the answers to these questions? I know it is sometimes hard to get a handle on your own thoughts with complete clarity.

 

Five years is a long time. Perhaps it is time to have emergency crisis talks with your wife? Does she know exactly how you are feeling and how desperately unhappy you are - or do you hide it to some extent? Could you try one last ditch effort to spell all this out to your W and jointly put a plan together to save the marriage? It would be awful to go another five years like this. If you truly feel you've tried everything and cannot possibly see any way back, then you really owe it to both of you to divorce as respectfully and amicably as possible.

 

But please don't go after the OW or anyone else - at least not until you are completely divorced from your wife and settled into a new situation/routine.

 

I wish you nothing but the best Ray. Life sucks sometimes, and often we are the very cause of this. But we are all human - we make mistakes, we hurt ourselves and others...but we also have the capacity to recover, learn and right the wrongs we have done. I'm crossing my fingers for you.

 

Keep posting.