"Swing for what you can hit"

[Carpe Diem]

I'm trying to help a friend\coworker meet a woman.

 

He (my friend) has both pro's and cons for the dating scene. He's educated and makes close to a 100 grand a year; he's also awkard, geeky and 70 pounds overweight. He's also lacks confidence with women and I suspect may even be a virgin. He's told me he's never dated. He's 35 and talks constantly about wanting children.

 

I helped him create an online profile that was both flattering and realistic. We put a picture that clearly shows him as overweight but mentions his love of reading, pubs and science fiction. I really believe that there's a segment of women who would be interested in him... slightly overweight early thirties, maybe a single parent, nerdy etc. A woman who'd be happy to have a loyal, kind, average looking guy with a good job, at her side.

 

Here's my problem: my coworker totally doesn't want that type. He's a 4 but wants a 9 or 10. I see this often, even on sights like Loveshack. People complain that there's no one out there for them but then exclude people who are a few years older, overweight, average looking, don't have good jobs etc etc etc. I know that no 25 year old, attractive college student will give him the time of day. He's ignoring the types I think he'd be successful with and then getting depressed when his overatures to the out of reach aren't returned.

 

I know attraction is so personal but I've tried to communicate to him that giving people a chance is important. Part of me wants to say "listen you're a 35 year old 300 pound virgin, swing for what you can hit."

 

I'm about to give up. I'm married with two kids and have spent large amounts of time counselling and listening to him at work; helping him set up his profile, being sympathetic to his situation and especially being non-judgemental with his 'woa is me, I can't find someone to love" self fulfilling depression cycle.

 

My partner has become tired of me relating the blow-by-blow details and said recently "enough, you can't help those that won't help themselves. Cut him lose he's seriously taken enough of your time."

 

I'm looking for advice on

1) anything I can say to my coworker to help him move from his unrealistic and apparently intransigent dating position?

 

2) my involvement in the whole affair (NOT a double entendre unfortunately lol)

 

3) mail order bride ( it's the only solution I can think of that will get him what he wants but I see it ending in 8 years as she buggars off with all his money and holds his kids over his head.)

[CptInsano]

[...]

Here's my problem: my coworker totally doesn't want that type. He's a 4 but wants a 9 or 10. I see this often, even on sights like Loveshack. People complain that there's no one out there for them but then exclude people who are a few years older, overweight, average looking, don't have good jobs etc etc etc. I know that no 25 year old, attractive college student will give him the time of day. He's ignoring the types I think he'd be successful with and then getting depressed when his overatures to the out of reach aren't returned.

 

He probably wants these women because he never had the experience, even when he was 25 years old. But who he can date and which women are right for him are all lessons he has to learn himself, and you also can't compromise for him. I've tried to help friends before, including the mail order bride option. My advice is to let it be. Your friend doesn't sound dumb, so he will be able to figure things out.

[SammySammy]

He doesn't want it.

 

That's like saying you want a college degree - graduate summa cum laude- but won't go to class. Won't do the assignments. Then wonder why you flunk out.

 

He says he wants it, but he really doesn't if he's not willing to do anything about it.

 

Women like that have options. If he's not willing to do what it takes to become a viable option for them, then you can't help him. I wouldn't try to pawn him off on a "lesser" woman. Those women deserve better.

 

I would stop listening and stop trying to help. Give your partner a break. Give yourself a break.

 

The information he needs is readily available. All he has to do is take action. He doesn't really need your help. He needs initiative. Determination. Perseverance. And you can't give that to him

[CC12]

Part of me wants to say "listen you're a 35 year old 300 pound virgin, swing for what you can hit."

 

You can say this, but you can word it tactfully. "You'll be a lot more successful, especially with the type of women you want to date, if you started working out. You might even meet a woman at the gym. In the meantime, you should start dating anything that moves, basically. Even if you don't find them attractive, you'll get lots of practice getting out and going on dates and you might end up getting pretty good at dating."

 

And then I might add to that, "And that's about all the advice I can give. You're on your own now, and I wish you luck. Let me know when you go out on a date."

 

Hopefully, he'll understand that you're very politely asking him to stop complaining about his dating woes and only tell you when he actually makes any progress at all. And by encouraging to go on "practice" dates with not-completely-ideal women, he might actually meet one he likes and will get over whatever hangups he has about dating women who are out of his league.

 

 

P.S.

 

3) mail order bride ( it's the only solution I can think of that will get him what he wants but I see it ending in 8 years as she buggars off with all his money and holds his kids over his head.)

 

Sugarbaby websites. He can probably afford it.

[caveman621]

Has he gotten responses to his online profile but then sees a pic of the woman who responded and then doesn't respond because he doesn't consider her attractive enough? Or has he received no responses? If he has, I'd give him the advice I give on here a lot. Go on a date! I think a lot of people on OLD look for the perfect match. If you're not looking for a bride on the first date, I think it will work out a lot better. Go out. Have a drink. Talk. It's better than another night home alone. If he doesn't like her for whatever reason, even if it's appearance, nothing is lost. He can stop communication. But maybe, just maybe, he'll see someone for who she is, and not just a picture that he doesn't think is "good enough" for him. Or at least get some dating experience. I know it's hard to do, but tell him to go in with no expectations and he won't be disappointed, and he just might be pleasantly surprised.

[Bastile]

The guy sounds like a psychic vampire, a value leech. I wouldn't waste your time.

 

His energy is rubbing off on you, and your Mrs is likely picking up on it.

 

As for "swing for what you can hit", I don't agree with that. I prefer a thorough testing of one's value, before making such a statement.

 

However, I seriously doubt the guy would be willing to test his value, and he just wants to be a moaner. Therefore, I'd be keeping his negativity at arms length.

[elaine567]

I am wondering if what he is doing is self-sabotaging.

He knows most 25 yos who are a 9 or a 10, are not looking for overweight 35yos wanting to have kids ASAP, so by targetting them, he never actually has to meet any real women, and he can then go back to his "woe is me" comfort zone, a wounded warrior...

 

If he was to actually date, he may be found wanting, and that may be too much for him. Better rejected at source, than to get out into the real world of potential face to face rejection and heart ache.

 

Of course he may be somewhat narcissistic and feels women should be dropping at his feet as he is just sooo awesome...

[PegNosePete]

1) anything I can say to my coworker to help him move from his unrealistic and apparently intransigent dating position?

"listen you're a 35 year old 300 pound virgin, swing for what you can hit."

[BluEyeL]

Yeah, if he was a good friend I'd tell him that line. And add that unless he gets it together you can't listen to him anymore, regrettably.

 

I had a dating coach and at some point I was dating some guy whom she said is a no go and I should dump him. I was being stupid and insisted I didn't want to dump him. Because he was out of my league and I would have loved to brag about having that dish. But that dish wasn't what I needed, yet I kept going out with him. She nicely told me that unless I dump this guy and get my **** together she can't work with me anymore. Somewhat similar to your situation. You are his dating coach. You can't do your "job" if he's ignoring reality and common sense.

 

A lot of people are like him, men and women. Not sure what's up with them. They either don't actually want a relationship, or have some other hang ups. We can give advice but at some point it's not our problem anymore.

[GunslingerRoland]

I agree with the person who said self sabotaging. Honestly for most people to get to 35 as a virgin, you probably have to be scared of women. Clearly he is.

 

If he wants 25 year old hotties he'll have to turn that 6 figure salary into a 7 figure salary.

 

Or be a character played by Kevin James.

[angel.eyes]

Focus on your own relationship. Your partner has already warned you. Let him deal with his own issues and unrealistic standards. If you continue to own his issues for him, you may find yourself back on the market needing to take your own advice.

 

Your partner has conveyed that she's beyond frustrated with where you focus your attention. Where exactly do your priorities lie--a 35-year old 300 pound man with ridiculous expectations, or your neglected partner?

[gaius]

If he was a friend I'd suggest being totally honest, telling him he has some issues with intimacy and self sabotage that he should probably see a therapist for, but since you work with the guy I'd just let him do his thing. You don't want to risk impacting your career by trying to shake someone out of their delusions. It can be an ugly experience.

Edited June 28, 2017 by gaius

[elaine567]

Focus on your own relationship. Your partner has already warned you. Let him deal with his own issues and unrealistic standards. If you continue to own his issues for him, you may find yourself back on the market needing to take your own advice.

 

Your partner has conveyed that she's beyond frustrated with where you focus your attention. Where exactly do your priorities lie--a 35-year old 300 pound man with ridiculous expectations, or your neglected partner?

 

I guess his wife isn't too happy with the oP spending his time on dating sites eyeing up "hot" 25 yos as "research" for his co worker...

[Bastile]

Focus on your own relationship. Your partner has already warned you. Let him deal with his own issues and unrealistic standards. If you continue to own his issues for him, you may find yourself back on the market needing to take your own advice.

 

Your partner has conveyed that she's beyond frustrated with where you focus your attention. Where exactly do your priorities lie--a 35-year old 300 pound man with ridiculous expectations, or your neglected partner?

 

I completely agree.

 

Emotional states are as infectious as diseases. This guy's energy is rubbing off onto the OP. And his woman is sensing it....

 

Women are great at picking up on energy, in the same way that dogs and cats do. It's almost a spiritual gift. His wife is just reflecting the energy that he is.

 

It's a frame thing. When two frames of energy come into contact, the strongest one dominates. This guy's vampirism is so strong that it's effecting the OP, rather than the original intention of the OP changing the guy's state instead.

 

Cut him off.

[angel.eyes]

If he was a friend I'd suggest being totally honest, telling him he has some issues with intimacy and self sabotage that he should probably see a therapist for, but since you work with the guy I'd just let him do his thing. You don't want to risk impacting your career by trying to shake someone out of their delusions. It can be an ugly experience.

 

I forgot this was a work colleague. No good can come of this. Drop it and your research of 25-year old hotties online. And no, since he's a work colleague, you certainly can't be honest and tell him he's a 300 pound unattractive man trying to bat out of his league. People at work get very petty and hold grudges forever.

[knabe]

Wow, your friend is exactly who I picture when I read pretty much EVERY internet posting by a man who whines about not getting dates. Because all of them COULD get dates. They just want Jessica Alba when they bring Danny DeVito.

 

I'm not sure you can do anything with guys like that. They blame women for their woman woes, and they rarely do any actual self-reflection.

[JuneJulySeptember]

 

I helped him create an online profile that was both flattering and realistic. We put a picture that clearly shows him as overweight but mentions his love of reading, pubs and science fiction. I really believe that there's a segment of women who would be interested in him... slightly overweight early thirties, maybe a single parent, nerdy etc. A woman who'd be happy to have a loyal, kind, average looking guy with a good job, at her side.

 

Here's my problem: my coworker totally doesn't want that type. He's a 4 but wants a 9 or 10. I see this often, even on sights like Loveshack. People complain that there's no one out there for them but then exclude people who are a few years older, overweight, average looking, don't have good jobs etc etc etc. I know that no 25 year old, attractive college student will give him the time of day. He's ignoring the types I think he'd be successful with and then getting depressed when his overatures to the out of reach aren't returned.

 

I know attraction is so personal but I've tried to communicate to him that giving people a chance is important. Part of me wants to say "listen you're a 35 year old 300 pound virgin, swing for what you can hit."

 

One of my good friends is an overweight guy. I would never label him with a number like ... 4.

 

His girlfriend is a bigger girl, not as overweight as him but she's attractive. What makes you think a skinny twig deserves any extra points?

 

I know everybody thinks labeling people with numbers is harmless, but it really isn't. What would you call yourself, a 7 maybe? So, in your mind, you're 3 points better than your 'friend'. Just think about that for a second.

 

If you have to, it's better to use categories. Just say, your friend is a heavy guy ... and he likes skinny women. And that could be a problem. Or use average looking and hot as 2 sub categories.

 

I know. Everybody does it and everybody uses the number scale. I have used when I was younger myself, a lot. Trust me, it's bad. It really does affect how you view people and the world.

[Imajerk17]

I agree with your partner. I would be (at least) irritated of hearing my partner get too involved in another guy's life even if it is to help solve his dating woes. You can lead the horse to water but you can't make him drink. Let your coworker be.

Edited June 28, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
topical material ~T

[carhill]

IDK, Babe Ruth always swung for the fence.

 

However, since this appears to be baseball by proxy, I'd suggest swinging for those fences in the home park. Good luck!

[jay1983]

Mismatched couples I see maybe once in a while and most that I've known personally have something else that doesn't meet the eye. Either the dude has a lot of money or some type of status que. I'll reference myself first. I've dating a couple of girls who were objectively more attractive than myself. One was just normal, nothing out of the ordinary. Met through a friend, started talking, and it went from there. Now the other I met when I had my own recording studio and had a lot up and coming artists and minor celebrities coming through. She did a commercial for us that never got airtime, but that's neither here nor there.

 

Okay a couple of co-workers I've had. One guy I'll call him "Manny". Manny was a guy like described in the OP. Overweight guy in his 40s he wasn't socially awkward but wasn't the most Charisma guy, was really soft and got on better with women then he did with men. He had a hot hot wife looked like 20 years younger than she was (probably plastic surgery). Everybody talked about how in the heck Manny got a woman like that. Well when we met her at a company dinner, she turned out to be the most obnoxious person and everyone thought so even talked about it for weeks. Was obvious the reason she was with him was cause he's probably the only person who could stomach her.

 

Another co-worker was as really attractive girl and when we met her fiancé he didn't measure up. Come to find out she's a particular type of Muslim from some country I don't remember the name of it and her husband had to be that same type of Muslim, which was only native to that country.

 

And that's not getting into the 10% of men who make 7 figures.

[d0nnivain]

If & only if, he comes to you for more advice, suggest to him that he do it your way at least 2-3 times & message a more appropriate / achievable woman.

 

 

However, when those types also say no thank you, then where will you & he be?

 

 

It's one thing to put balm on your wounded ego when the 9-10s turn you down but if the 3-5s, just like him, also take a pass it's going to be much harder to recover from that.

 

 

OLD can be cruel.

 

 

Perhaps suggest you two work out together. If he can drop 50 pounds that will help & do wonders for his health.

[spiderowl]

I can see it is tough. You could tell him that 'attractive' and 'beautiful' are not the same things. That someone can be beautiful but not very charismatic. Conversely, someone can be average-looking and yet very attractive and charismatic in person. If he just goes for the classically beautiful women, he is missing out on those who would outshine them in real life.

 

You could tell him he needs to meet people to find out what the chemistry is in real life and how attractive they are when he sees a real, animated person.

 

It may all fall on deaf ears of course.

[SammySammy]

IDK, Babe Ruth always swung for the fence.

 

However, since this appears to be baseball by proxy, I'd suggest swinging for those fences in the home park. Good luck!

 

He doesn't have Babe Ruth's talent or ability.

 

This guy hasn't had a hit, much less a home run.

 

Looks foolish wishing for home runs in major league parks when he's never played the game.

[Carpe Diem]

Thank you all for the advice.

 

I've enjoyed reading your responses. They run the gamut from humorous (he needs a 7 figure salary not a 6) lol, to serious larger themes (it's wrong to attach numbers to people's looks).

 

I appreciate the time people took to type up their thoughts and offer an opinion. The one piece of advice that's pretty consistent across the posts is that I should let go, withdraw from the situation and let my friend live his life. That's probably wise given the fact we're coworkers as well. I think I'll start slowly start distancing myself.

 

A number of you thought he may be self sabotaging. It's hard for me to say. He talks constantly about kids and how he wants to be a dad. Another coworker whose son had aged out of beginner skates told me that he'd being the first one to pop by her desk with $30 when she advertised them on the staffroom bulletin board. Honestly that's one of the reasons I've become so invested. The thought of him brining home these little skates and putting them away for his future son or daughter, makes me sad. I don't think people with kids or people who don't want them can truly understand this longing.

 

No doubt he'll be scared ****less when he does meet a woman but I know he's serious and don't think he's self sabotaging. (Obviously he is sabotaging but I don't think it's a conscious decision.)

 

Those of you who thought that he may just be totally unaware of how life works in the romance department are probably right.

 

Love the advice: Sometimes there's just nothing one person can do for another, the person has to do it for themselves.

[todreaminblue]

Thank you all for the advice.

 

I've enjoyed reading your responses. They run the gamut from humorous (he needs a 7 figure salary not a 6) lol, to serious larger themes (it's wrong to attach numbers to people's looks).

 

I appreciate the time people took to type up their thoughts and offer an opinion. The one piece of advice that's pretty consistent across the posts is that I should let go, withdraw from the situation and let my friend live his life. That's probably wise given the fact we're coworkers as well. I think I'll start slowly start distancing myself.

 

A number of you thought he may be self sabotaging. It's hard for me to say. He talks constantly about kids and how he wants to be a dad. Another coworker whose son had aged out of beginner skates told me that he'd being the first one to pop by her desk with $30 when she advertised them on the staffroom bulletin board. Honestly that's one of the reasons I've become so invested. The thought of him brining home these little skates and putting them away for his future son or daughter, makes me sad. I don't think people with kids or people who don't want them can truly understand this longing.

 

No doubt he'll be scared ****less when he does meet a woman but I know he's serious and don't think he's self sabotaging. (Obviously he is sabotaging but I don't think it's a conscious decision.)

 

Those of you who thought that he may just be totally unaware of how life works in the romance department are probably right.

 

Love the advice: Sometimes there's just nothing one person can do for another, the person has to do it for themselves.

 

makes me sad also sounds like he will be a loving and consistent dad......have hope for him.....send up prayers....where we fail god can fill the impossible...

 

dating is a lot of trial and error and he will just have to learn himself what is error ......you are a loving friend you have done your bit to help.....now its up to him..pray for him if you pray and be hopeful for him..i wish you and him well.....deb