How do I move on from my ex fiancee?

[wiselyzzz]

I would like to ask advice from the experts in this situation for those who have felt what i feel. I really need support so I can cheer up again. This will be long story so bear with it.

 

I had been in a relationship for 3 years. My ex lover and I were in love with each other for the first year. However during that argument keeps rising until I broke her up at that first time. She was really hurt and didn't wanna break up with Me however I broke her up cause she always caused trouble making small simple problem into big which I think its ridiculous. (Example: when I accidentally used her thing improperly.) I have also been close relationship with her mom and what I know she constantly having fight with her mom which mostly she picked a fight with her mom. Her father passed away long time so I can understand her loneliness. I love her so much at that time that when during break up I realized I wanted her so much that I want to be with her forever. Her love was fading. It was lucky I came back to her before its too late. Next thing is we reconciled. However, months passing by until the second year or third year. Her love was not as same as the first year. Its probably because I broke her up. She got traumatic. Overall, she once came to my home during Chinese new year and visited several relatives together with me and my grandfather and my aunt. However, that day my grandfather said something pierce indirectly to her heart. He said to me "You should focus on your future going to USA. Having a love will just prevent you on that". Since that, she has always hated my gramps even despise seeing him with evidence when my gramps in hospital, she doesn't want to see him. Although I don't like my gramps tempering my love life, I brushed it off. My ex fiancee is the type of person when she hates that person, she will hate it forever. Now I really being hated by her now despite not a big deal. Anyway, as a couple we did lots of things such as making out (No penetration sex, just stimulation genitals, oral and naked bath together and so on). Because of that, I am still hurtful and can't get those things out of my head. Furthermore, her love faded when during the graduation college day where every couple will always take picture together, she didn't want. Almost every action becomes like unusual to her. Example when it is usual to see her undressing and without shy. Now she has become uncomfortable and something like that. I guess the trigger was the first break up. I don't know why days by days she began to not like me more. Talk back more behind me to her mom while not even saying directly to my face. Whenever we have a problem, I always talk to her maturely to solve the problem. If I do something wrong, I'll apologize. If you do then you should apologize. But she didn't even want to look at me and keep playing smartphone. My ex fiancee was quite childish as her mom also said to me. Come to think of it, almost lots of times when we argue, she mostly wants to win argument even though she's wrong and can't even seem to say sorry to me.

 

When it was her birthday last 12 January, I took her out for dinner Korean meal since she loves Korean things. When the meal came, I took out two white candles, light it up and ask her to make her wish and blew the candle. But she disgusted in me. Hated me ever since that since she said to her mom that white candle is used for praying in Chinese to God. She said that I wanted her to die. To be honest, never even once I have that kind of thought. I couldn't find other candles so I just took the available one in my home. Ever since that, she hated me more. 6 April , the day she becomes sales promotor of VIVO. Ever since she got that job, we have little time and lack communication. She got only one day free which is Tuesday. I noticed after she got that job, the distance is even further indicating she might be cheating. I find it very ridiculous for the company to ban woman to wear engagement ring. Its ridiculous.

 

Until 25 April Tuesday, that's the trigger day of breaking up before 2 may. We had dinner at certain mall. But as usual, we had argument. Even from simple matter, I just asked her softly and with smile "Dear, why didn't you put our picture together and wear the engagement ring?" She said," why you always complain? You also over jealous with my fans Kim Kibum". It also happened when I also asked softly when I met her at work in mall. "Dear, why not put our picture?". She said, " Do you want everyone to see our picture?" I said why not? So that they know how much I love you and we are couple. Because of that, it makes me think even further that she might have interest in someone that she might be cheating. Then we argued since most couples will put their picture and wear their engagement ring. After that, I was so lazy and I went to have dinner alone near that mall place (About 15 steps from the drinking place). She wanted to join but she was drinking presotea (like Starbuck but a tea from Hong Kong) so I asked her to enjoy the drink first and come to me once you finish (the drinking place has a seat sofa for customer to enjoy). I had dinner alone and finished it. After that, she asked me why you leave me? She cried. Back at her house, I apologized everything if I do some mistakes and make her cry. I always do. Things calm down after that and I went home.

 

One week later, 2 May Tuesday, the day she's supposed to be off. She didn't even tell me that she would be busy. She always tell me when she's busy and have time. Now she didn't. At night, again we argued with she bringing up the problem one week ago. And then we broke up. I wanted to confirm my suspicious so I asked her whether she has someone she liked. She said yes. BTW, we broke up by texting. Even though I said if you want to break up do it by meeting not by texting. She said she didn't want to meet me anymore. In my mind, what kind of breaking up like this? Not gentle way. I dont know why but until now, its been so freaking difficult to meet her. Even she said to her mom not to tell me. She always avoids me. She told me to focus my dream to America so that i can pursue my dream as an excuse to break me up as she already knows that I will go to USA making it Long distance relationship. I told her long long ago during the first year and she didn't even mind that and we were so lovely back then.

The day after we broke up, I asked her again whether you already have bf. She said yes. How could she just throw away our 3 years relationship. Its been so hurt enduring these depression until now. I know how she felt when I broke her up the first time. I realized that was stupid. But now, not only she did it but also place someone in her heart already.

One month after we broke up, when I had birthday at 11 June. I expected her to say happy birthday to me and she didn't. That greatly sadden me. I wanted to talk to her and give her goodbye thanks. She always avoids me. Brushed me off. So I send her a goodbye letter and and apologize via letter messaging in LINE. Since its impossible to meet her. Always being avoided. The response that I got is blocked. Every social media, I got blocked.

Today, I tried to call her via phone number cause I want to meet her at least one more time. She rejected my call twice. I messaged her using non social media phone number. No reply. So yeah, I grieved n cried. It hurts so much. I couldn't even move on until now.

 

How am I supposed to be move on??? Its hurt. Because of the things making out we did, it's even more hurt that I can't forget it or let it go. If we never do that, it would be easier to me. Since we did it with love. Until now, the memory of us 3 years combined with making out makes me very hurtful and hard to forget as well as move on.

 

What should I do? Please tell me guys. I'm sorry for the long story.

Should I even try to meet her last time? Or just forget her?

 

If there's any information missing, please don't hesitate to ask. Who knows I'm missing something. I grieved about 6 hours ago. Better but still hurt even though it's been a month more.

 

P.S: Pardon me for my grammar mistakes if there are lots. I was typing without thinking its mistakes due to grieving.

Edited June 29, 2017 by wiselyzzz
Adding small note.

[d0nnivain]

Your grammar is fine. The wall of text was tough.

 

 

Two Qs: when did you get engaged? How old are you two?

 

 

You both sound very young & she sounds like a spoiled, ungrateful, drama queen. Sadly for you I think she has been emotionally checked out of this relationship for a while. I wonder if she was half out the door when you proposed.

 

 

You can't stay with a person who doesn't want to celebrate you as a couple. Even if her company had something legitimately against her wearing her engagement ring at work, it should be on a chain around her neck under her clothes but close to her heart. At the very least it should be slipped off at the beginning of the work day & immediately put back on once she was off.

 

 

This business about you doing the whole make a wish thing with candles for her birthday & her deciding that because she used white candles means you wished her dead is absurd. In Western culture white means purity & innocence so her logic is one sided.

 

 

Did you really think you could sustain a relationship where she hated your grandfather? What was she going to do, try to ban him from the wedding & refuse to attend family functions if he'd be there? Ugh.

 

 

I know it's hard because you cared so much. But now she's blocking you & telling you she already has a new BF. You have to accept that & move on. She's not going to talk to you. She can't give you closure -- she's too cruel & self-centered.

 

 

Pursue your dream to come to America. It's a land of opportunity, after all.

[Goodguy05]

Hey dude i understand how u feel it's been 9 mths in my case 6 yr relationship ended.

 

I'm in my 40's and ive done that too begged and tried to call and it doesn't work.all it does it loses respect and attraction. NC is the best I'd encourage you to read the NC guide on this site.

 

Do u really want her back aftrr she's jumped into another relationship so quickly. Do u realy want someone like that that has devalued ur worth. Ask ureself this question cld u trust her again if u got back together again? Be honest answer this honestly. I don't think u can ull always have that in the back of ur mind that she hooked up so quickly and trust issues and more fighting

[wiselyzzz]

Your grammar is fine. The wall of text was tough.

 

 

Two Qs: when did you get engaged? How old are you two?

 

 

You both sound very young & she sounds like a spoiled, ungrateful, drama queen. Sadly for you I think she has been emotionally checked out of this relationship for a while. I wonder if she was half out the door when you proposed.

 

 

You can't stay with a person who doesn't want to celebrate you as a couple. Even if her company had something legitimately against her wearing her engagement ring at work, it should be on a chain around her neck under her clothes but close to her heart. At the very least it should be slipped off at the beginning of the work day & immediately put back on once she was off.

 

 

This business about you doing the whole make a wish thing with candles for her birthday & her deciding that because she used white candles means you wished her dead is absurd. In Western culture white means purity & innocence so her logic is one sided.

 

 

Did you really think you could sustain a relationship where she hated your grandfather? What was she going to do, try to ban him from the wedding & refuse to attend family functions if he'd be there? Ugh.

 

 

I know it's hard because you cared so much. But now she's blocking you & telling you she already has a new BF. You have to accept that & move on. She's not going to talk to you. She can't give you closure -- she's too cruel & self-centered.

 

 

Pursue your dream to come to America. It's a land of opportunity, after all.

 

ANSWERS:

 

1st answer to your question is we got engaged the second year during our relationship. That would be 22 years old. Both of us. That's for the second answer.

 

You both sound very young & she sounds like a spoiled, ungrateful, drama queen. Sadly for you I think she has been emotionally checked out of this relationship for a while. I wonder if she was half out the door when you proposed. <=== You hit the jackpot. She is indeed spoiled, ungrateful and drama queen. Her mom also told me that so I can be patient with her.

 

You can't stay with a person who doesn't want to celebrate you as a couple. Even if her company had something legitimately against her wearing her engagement ring at work, it should be on a chain around her neck under her clothes but close to her heart. At the very least it should be slipped off at the beginning of the work day & immediately put back on once she was off. <=== I know that feeling. I have been thinking something is weird. She almost always gave me the excuse of forget. I myself never forget it and always put it on except while taking bath. When I asked her where the ring was, she gave me quite unhappy face.

 

This business about you doing the whole make a wish thing with candles for her birthday & her deciding that because she used white candles means you wished her dead is absurd. In Western culture white means purity & innocence so her logic is one sided. <=== This is the one cause why we broke up thanks to her. I never ever think of wishing her dead. Apparently, we have different personality. I am more to Western, she is more to Eastern Chinese tradition. In Chinese tradition, using white candles is only for praying in temples and whatsoever and something like Chinese Gods. Using that white candle means you are wishing her dead based on her logic. I myself never think that. I just want her to make her wish and blow the candle as a sign of new chapter of life. Also, you are correct that I also think that white is purity and innocence.

 

Did you really think you could sustain a relationship where she hated your grandfather? What was she going to do, try to ban him from the wedding & refuse to attend family functions if he'd be there? Ugh. <=== I am telling you, if she's gonna hate that person, she will hate that person forever and never forgive that. In this case, I am that person + My grandfather.

 

I know it's hard because you cared so much. But now she's blocking you & telling you she already has a new BF. You have to accept that & move on. She's not going to talk to you. She can't give you closure -- she's too cruel & self-centered. <=== I am trying. I can accept that already. However, the problem is that the memory of 3 years is torturing me despite I already destroyed all traces of remainders of her. Also, since we did Making out lots (no sex), that even gave me more torturing to my heart. Tell me, what should I do? If only I can forget all that make out part. Everything is well.

 

Pursue your dream to come to America. It's a land of opportunity, after all <=== Thank you. I was planning to take her too. But since I no longer have attachments. I am free. But still tormented.

[wiselyzzz]

Hey dude i understand how u feel it's been 9 mths in my case 6 yr relationship ended.

 

I'm in my 40's and ive done that too begged and tried to call and it doesn't work.all it does it loses respect and attraction. NC is the best I'd encourage you to read the NC guide on this site.

 

Do u really want her back aftrr she's jumped into another relationship so quickly. Do u realy want someone like that that has devalued ur worth. Ask ureself this question cld u trust her again if u got back together again? Be honest answer this honestly. I don't think u can ull always have that in the back of ur mind that she hooked up so quickly and trust issues and more fighting

 

Yours are worst. I don't know how you can overcome that.

 

Do u really want her back aftrr she's jumped into another relationship so quickly. Do u realy want someone like that that has devalued ur worth. Ask ureself this question cld u trust her again if u got back together again? Be honest answer this honestly. I don't think u can ull always have that in the back of ur mind that she hooked up so quickly and trust issues and more fighting <=== I don't think I will. I don't want someone like that who has devalued my worth. Even in relationship, I have most suspicion towards her even if I dont want to. It's making me uncomfortable. So if I got her back, trust would be issue. I agree with you.

[Downtown]

Wisely, did your ex-fiancee exhibit strong signs of inappropriate jealousy during the last half of your first year (i.e., before you took a break from her)? For example, did she become jealous whenever you looked at another woman for a second instead of a half-second? Or was she jealous of your spending time with a close friend or family member (mistakenly thinking that you were choosing them over you)?

[wiselyzzz]

Wisely, did your ex-fiancee exhibit strong signs of inappropriate jealousy during the last half of your first year (i.e., before you took a break from her)? For example, did she become jealous whenever you looked at another woman for a second instead of a half-second? Or was she jealous of your spending time with a close friend or family member (mistakenly thinking that you were choosing them over you)?

 

Number 1, yes she did. Very strong jealousy to one friend. To sum up, that time my college was having a debate competition to be paired up. I was rumored to teamed up with a girl and she's also my friend. I knew her. My ex fiancee knew that and wished me to forfeit. Of course, I couldn't do that cause schools recommended. She said she would go to the lecturer who nominate and complained. I'd embarrassed to hell. In the end, I didn't pair up. Cancelled.

 

Number 2, even via looking for a while like 0.5 seconds, she will look at me with kind of angry face. Which makes talking with a girl not possible.

 

Number 3, spending time with close friend? If its male she won't, if its female then yes. Besides, I didnt have best friend female at that time so yeah cross that out. And no to family member.

[Downtown]

Wisely, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational anger, controlling actions, easily triggered temper tantrums, desire for frequent drama, lack of impulse control, black-white thinking, and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your ex-fiancee has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may be a "BPDer" -- i.e., may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.

 

My ex fiancee was quite childish as her mom also said to me.... She is indeed spoiled, ungrateful and drama queen.

If she is a BPDer, that childish behavior is to be expected. A BPDer's emotional development typically is frozen at the level of a four year old, preventing her from acquiring the emotional skills needed to regulate and control her own emotions. This is why BPDers throw hissy fits and temper tantrums over issues so minor that, three days later, neither of you can recall what the argument had been about.

 

She always caused trouble making small simple problem into big which I think its ridiculous.

If she is a BPDer, her inability to control her own emotions means that she frequently will experience feelings so intense that they distort her perception of your intentions and motivations. Actually, you experienced this distortion so many times in childhood that, by the time you were in middle school, you already knew that you could not trust your own judgment while experiencing strong hatred, love, or other feelings. Well, BPDers are like this too -- only it occurs far more frequently with them because they cannot regulate their emotions to avoid the intense feelings.

 

She has always hated my gramps.... My ex fiancee is the type of person when she hates that person, she will hate it forever. Now I really being hated by her now despite not a big deal.

This behavior is called "black-white thinking." BPDers rely on it heavily. If your ex-fiancee is a BPDer, she is too immature to be able to handle strong mixed feelings, ambiguities, uncertainties, and other gray areas of interpersonal relationships. Hence, like a young child, she will categorize everyone close to her as "all good" (i.e., "white" or "with me") or "all bad" (i.e., "black" or "against me"). And she can recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in just ten seconds -- based solely on a minor comment or action.

 

Black-white thinking usually is evident in the frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions such as "You NEVER..." and "You ALWAYS...." It also is evident in the way your ex-fiancee perceives of your Gramps as "all bad," which shows in the way she hates him and sees no good parts of him. If she is a BPDer, the likely reason that she is so furious with him is that she has such a great fear of abandonment that this fear was easily triggered by Gramp's suggestion that you avoid a love commitment so you are free to travel to the United States.

 

When someone triggers a BPDer's great fear of abandonment, that person likely will be immediately perceived as the devil incarnate -- and treated as such. Moreover, the BPDer is unlikely to change her mind about him. As you say, "My ex fiancee is the type of person when she hates that person, she will hate it forever."

 

The day after we broke up, I asked her again whether you already have bf. She said yes. How could she just throw away our 3 years relationship?

Like young children, BPDers avoid having to handle strong conflicting feelings (e.g., love and hate) by putting the conflicting feeling (e.g., love) far out of reach of their conscious minds. This is why a BPDer appears to stop loving her partner so quickly that it seems she has simply flipped a switch. It occurs that quickly.

 

You will see the same behavior occur many times a day in young children. A four year old girl will adore Daddy when he is bringing out the toys but then, in just seconds, will immediately flip to hating Daddy when he takes one toy away. Of course, her love for Daddy is still there in her mind at all times. But her subconscious has placed it out of reach of her conscious mind because she is too immature to deal with both conflicting feelings at the same time.

 

I guess the trigger was the first break up. I don't know why days by days she began to not like me more.

No, if she has strong BPD traits, you likely have it backwards. The breakup did not cause her to start treating you badly. Rather, you chose to break up with her after twelve months because, about six months into the relationship, she had already started treating you badly. A BPDer typically is very loving and caring during the courtship period. This occurs because her infatuation convinces her that you are the nearly perfect man who has arrived to rescue her from unhappiness. In this way, her infatuation holds her two fears (abandonment and engulfment) at bay. She therefore truly believes that you are God's gift to women.

 

As soon as the infatuations starts to fade, however, both fears quickly return. This typically occurs about 4 to 6 months into the relationship but sometimes lasts longer if the couple don't see each other too often. When the fears return, it is impossible to avoid triggering them. This is why, if she is a BPDer, you could not have avoided the temper tantrums. It did not matter whether you had the breakup or not.

 

So if I got her back, trust would be issue.

If she is a BPDer, trust was already an issue by the time you got six months into the relationship. Until a BPDer learns how to trust herself, she is incapable of trusting you. During the early courtship period, she was able to trust you only because her infatuation held her fears at bay. When that infatuation started to evaporate, Wisely, you saw her starting to lose trust and becoming jealous to an irrational extent.

 

Hated me ever since that since she said to her mom that white candle is used for praying in Chinese to God. She said that I wanted her to die.... This is the one cause why we broke up thanks to her.

Again, probably not. You likely have it backwards. If she is a BPDer, she already was wanting to break up with you BEFORE you performed the candle ceremony. As Donnivain explained, you ex-fiancee simply used the white candles as an absurd excuse for doing what she had already decided to do: walk out on you.

 

She told me to focus my dream to America so that i can pursue my dream as an excuse to break me up as she already knows that I will go to USA making it Long distance relationship.

Wisely, this likely is the real reason for the final breakup. A BPDer has such a great fear of abandonment that it is extremely painful and frightening for her to remain in the relationship. It therefore is common for a BPDer to abandon her partner before he has a chance to do it to her. And it is common for this to occur even when the partner has no intention whatsoever of walking out on her.

 

Because the partner has no intention of leaving her, the BPDer has no real reason to point to as an explanation for why she is leaving him. Her abandonment fear is so great, however, that the intense feelings distort her perception of his intentions. The way this occurs is that her subconscious mind projects her fears of abandonment onto YOU. Because this projection occurs entirely at the subconscious level, her mind consciously believes that the danger is coming from YOU. This is why BPDers are able to believe the outrageous allegations coming out of their mouths -- e.g., something as outrageous as your ex-fiancee's claim that the color of two candles means that you want her dead.

 

Similarly, my BPDer exW became so fearful I was going to leave her -- at the end of our 15 year marriage -- that she abandoned me. By "abandoned me" I mean she called the police and had me arrested for "brutalizing" her. When I got out of jail 3 days later, I found that she had obtained a restraining order preventing me from returning to my own home for 18 months (the time it takes to get a divorce here). In the way that your ex-fiancee "saw" a death threat in the color of two candles, my exW "saw" brutalization in my attempt to keep her away from a bedroom door she was trying to demolish during one of her temper tantrums.

 

When we argue, she mostly wants to win argument even though she's wrong and can't even seem to say sorry to me.

If she is a BPDer, Wisely, she is filled with so much self loathing that the last thing she wants to find is one more thing to hate about herself. A BPDer's subconscious therefore works 24/7 protecting her fragile ego from seeing too much of reality. It accomplishes this, as I noted above, by projecting the mistakes and fears and bad thoughts onto YOU -- with the result that she believes, at a conscious level, that those problems and fears all originate with you. In this way, a BPDer perceives of herself as "The Victim" and you as "The Perpetrator," i.e., the cause of her every misfortune.

 

I know she constantly having fight with her mom which mostly she picked a fight with her mom. Her father passed away long time so I can understand her loneliness.

If your ex-fiancee is a BPDer, there is a strong probability she experienced a trauma in childhood, probably in early childhood. A recent large-scale study found that 70% of full-blown BPDers report that they were emotionally abused by a parent (as might have been done by your ex's mother) or abandoned by a parent (as her father did when dying) in childhood.

 

What should I do?

I suggest you stay away from this young lady. And, if you ever feel strongly inclined to take her back, I would suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you're dealing with. I also suggest that you protect yourself by learning how to spot the warning signs for BPD.

 

Of course, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your ex-fiancee's issues. Although it is easy to spot strong occurrences of BPD symptoms, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a painful situation, e.g., taking your ex-fiancee back or running into the arms of another woman just like her.

 

I also caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your ex-fiancee exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper third of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," inappropriate jealousy, and temper tantrums.

 

I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if most sound very familiar. If they do, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread... and read what it feels like to live with a BPDer for 23 years in Salparadise's post. If those descriptions ring many bells and raise questions, I would be glad to join Donnivaine and other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Wisely.

[fieldoflavender]

Honestly you need to get a life. I don't know when you separated from your ex wife, but not everyone who acts in certain ways has BPD. They don't need to read warning signs and realize that they have no responsibility in a break up or relationship and that it is all the other person's fault.

 

At the end of the day, you decide if you think any of it is WORTH it - reflect on your OWN behaviours on top of others, and then self improve. Just trying to shift blame to someone else is very resentful/bitter and doesn't help anyone.

 

Identify traits you don't like - and don't pick them in the next partner. Always recognize that you have a choice, no matter what.

 

Or if you want as above, you can continue living in the past and try to influence others too. Moving forward is a healthy thing to do.

 

If jealousy is a deal breaker to you in a relationship, then address it with the person. If they don't listen, then break up with them. You have a choice. You are not helpless.

 

If being inconsiderate is a problem, don't give endless promises to change. Simply identify it and have an adult conversation. If they don't listen, you can leave.

 

Start looking at your own actions and choices. And most of all don't propose to someone if you already have relationship issues. Engagement doesn't fix everything. If anything, it worsens the situation - by making a commitment you both weren't really looking at the root causes to fix.

Edited June 30, 2017 by fieldoflavender

[Downtown]

Not everyone who acts in certain ways has BPD.

On the contrary, Field, a person is said to "have BPD" if he acts in a certain way, i.e., if he exhibits most BPD behaviors at a strong and persistent level. By definition, the BPD symptoms described in the American and European diagnostic manuals are simply a group of 9 behaviors. Hence, when you are seeing 5 of those 9 behaviors in the way a person acts, you are seeing a pattern of behaviors called "BPD."

 

BPD behaviors are normal ego defenses that everyone has to ensure we survive childhood. As I noted above, we all exhibit these behaviors at the full-blown level during childhood and, if we are healthy, at a low level throughout our adult lives.

 

Identify traits you don't like - and don't pick them in the next partner.

I agree, Field. As I noted above, learning to identify BPD traits "may help you avoid a painful situation, e.g., taking your ex-fiancee back or running into the arms of another woman just like her." Edited June 30, 2017 by Downtown

[fieldoflavender]

Or maybe if you're not a psychologist, then you shouldn't be trying to diagnose people off the Internet. This is only one side of the story. It's fine to identify things that are concerning, behaviours that the person should be watching out - but to label everyone as such takes as professional. And psychologists would never do that over the Internet.

 

So instead of being irresponsible, I would suggest not to do that. You obviously have a lot of resentment from your marriage and I hope you are seeing someone. Not everyone needs a specific psych diagnosis to benefit from psychotherapy or counselling.

 

Part of moving on is letting it go. And not to extrapolate one's own experiences onto everyone else's. Each person is unique and every couple's story - the whole story - only they know. Snippets of what people tell others is not accurate portrayal of the whole story.

 

For your sake, I hope you can let go. And forgive - not for the other person, you can't control what they did wrong and what they learned or didn't learn, but you can learn for yourself. And by learning, I don't mean just telling everyone to run away as fast as they can but recognizing what in yourself that you need to build up so you don't tolerate things that are unacceptable to you. That IS what you have control over.

 

And instead of people who are NOT psychologists trying to diagnose people with BPD and using that as a basis for taking back fiances* or dating another person - why not accept you are NOT a psychologist - you can't diagnose people. If there's a behaviour or traits for WHATEVER REASON that you dislike - you work with it, and if you can't, then you leave. Try not to enter a situation with BPD bias or whatever depression/psychosis bias. You are trying to start or renew romantic relationships based on values, compatibility, chemistry etc - and not to make psych diagnoses and try to identify all these things wrong with other people. It takes two to clap. If you can't identify with a certain behaviour or trait, then ask yourself if you can work it out with the person. Why does it matter why?

Edited June 30, 2017 by fieldoflavender

[wiselyzzz]

Wisely, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational anger, controlling actions, easily triggered temper tantrums, desire for frequent drama, lack of impulse control, black-white thinking, and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your ex-fiancee has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may be a "BPDer" -- i.e., may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.

 

===> She might be what you say BPD. If I have to say it is quite moderate to heavy.

 

If she is a BPDer, that childish behavior is to be expected. A BPDer's emotional development typically is frozen at the level of a four year old, preventing her from acquiring the emotional skills needed to regulate and control her own emotions. This is why BPDers throw hissy fits and temper tantrums over issues so minor that, three days later, neither of you can recall what the argument had been about.

 

===>Hmmm, that might be a good explanation behind of all those.

 

If she is a BPDer, her inability to control her own emotions means that she frequently will experience feelings so intense that they distort her perception of your intentions and motivations. Actually, you experienced this distortion so many times in childhood that, by the time you were in middle school, you already knew that you could not trust your own judgment while experiencing strong hatred, love, or other feelings. Well, BPDers are like this too -- only it occurs far more frequently with them because they cannot regulate their emotions to avoid the intense feelings.

 

===>BINGO, you hit the jackpot. She experienced that in schools. She has no father due to pass away and constant argue when she was in school. She is so isolated in social and something like that. I came into her life so I can make her life happier. But, I think it is far cry to make her feel that there is nothing wrong with that feeling.

This behavior is called "black-white thinking." BPDers rely on it heavily. If your ex-fiancee is a BPDer, she is too immature to be able to handle strong mixed feelings, ambiguities, uncertainties, and other gray areas of interpersonal relationships. Hence, like a young child, she will categorize everyone close to her as "all good" (i.e., "white" or "with me") or "all bad" (i.e., "black" or "against me"). And she can recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in just ten seconds -- based solely on a minor comment or action.

 

===>Indeed, you again hit the jackpot. She seems unable to differentiate which is general which is not. Example: if she hates certain race of people, then generally all people of that race will always be hated by her. She can't see that some people are not that kind.

 

Black-white thinking usually is evident in the frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions such as "You NEVER..." and "You ALWAYS...." It also is evident in the way your ex-fiancee perceives of your Gramps as "all bad," which shows in the way she hates him and sees no good parts of him. If she is a BPDer, the likely reason that she is so furious with him is that she has such a great fear of abandonment that this fear was easily triggered by Gramp's suggestion that you avoid a love commitment so you are free to travel to the United States.

 

===>You are very good in predicting, sir. Yes, she did mention those words to me. I guess she can't really learn to ignore what other people say. I already told her no matter what they say, we would always be together. Why would they bother us? But yeah, she really used this as an excuse of breaking up and so on. I want to take a risk of having a relationship even If i will go to USA one day. She indeed always feel burden despite me telling her not to.

 

When someone triggers a BPDer's great fear of abandonment, that person likely will be immediately perceived as the devil incarnate -- and treated as such. Moreover, the BPDer is unlikely to change her mind about him. As you say, "My ex fiancee is the type of person when she hates that person, she will hate it forever."

 

===> And until now, I am still hated with evidence she rejected my calls and blocked my numbers and all social media despite me trying to make peace and be friends.

 

Like young children, BPDers avoid having to handle strong conflicting feelings (e.g., love and hate) by putting the conflicting feeling (e.g., love) far out of reach of their conscious minds. This is why a BPDer appears to stop loving her partner so quickly that it seems she has simply flipped a switch. It occurs that quickly.

 

===> Yeah, that's why i was confused how she can throw away that feeling of 3 years easily for just 1 day and went with someone else or having a feeling replaced in her heart.

 

You will see the same behavior occur many times a day in young children. A four year old girl will adore Daddy when he is bringing out the toys but then, in just seconds, will immediately flip to hating Daddy when he takes one toy away. Of course, her love for Daddy is still there in her mind at all times. But her subconscious has placed it out of reach of her conscious mind because she is too immature to deal with both conflicting feelings at the same time.

 

===> Nevertheless, It is always a mystery of her. I keep doing the best of her. I am not the smoker, drug addict. I am trying to be the best and perfect match of her. But, always got blamed and unsatisfied.

 

No, if she has strong BPD traits, you likely have it backwards. The breakup did not cause her to start treating you badly. Rather, you chose to break up with her after twelve months because, about six months into the relationship, she had already started treating you badly. A BPDer typically is very loving and caring during the courtship period. This occurs because her infatuation convinces her that you are the nearly perfect man who has arrived to rescue her from unhappiness. In this way, her infatuation holds her two fears (abandonment and engulfment) at bay. She therefore truly believes that you are God's gift to women.

 

===> Yeah, at the first year she was truly loving and caring. But, days passes and she changed a little to worse. Trying to save her from unhappiness but still...... I don't have the words to describe this.

 

As soon as the infatuations starts to fade, however, both fears quickly return. This typically occurs about 4 to 6 months into the relationship but sometimes lasts longer if the couple don't see each other too often. When the fears return, it is impossible to avoid triggering them. This is why, if she is a BPDer, you could not have avoided the temper tantrums. It did not matter whether you had the breakup or not.

 

===> I agree with you.

 

If she is a BPDer, trust was already an issue by the time you got six months into the relationship. Until a BPDer learns how to trust herself, she is incapable of trusting you. During the early courtship period, she was able to trust you only because her infatuation held her fears at bay. When that infatuation started to evaporate, Wisely, you saw her starting to lose trust and becoming jealous to an irrational extent.

 

===> So that's what I am seeing into her and myself. Yeah you are correct. Trust is really an issue back then. However, I keep trusting myself to trust her and look what I got until break up. A betrayal.

 

Again, probably not. You likely have it backwards. If she is a BPDer, she already was wanting to break up with you BEFORE you performed the candle ceremony. As Donnivain explained, you ex-fiancee simply used the white candles as an absurd excuse for doing what she had already decided to do: walk out on you.

 

===> I had that kind of feeling too. Why would a candle be a problem? It is a birthday wish. Every people will want to do that. We do not make small problem to big. I make it simple and she makes it quite a problem. If I really do have a wish of her dying, why would I even care and love for her in the beginning? Kind of twisted logic.

 

Wisely, this likely is the real reason for the final breakup. A BPDer has such a great fear of abandonment that it is extremely painful and frightening for her to remain in the relationship. It therefore is common for a BPDer to abandon her partner before he has a chance to do it to her. And it is common for this to occur even when the partner has no intention whatsoever of walking out on her.

 

===> This might also be the reason after all.

 

Because the partner has no intention of leaving her, the BPDer has no real reason to point to as an explanation for why she is leaving him. Her abandonment fear is so great, however, that the intense feelings distort her perception of his intentions. The way this occurs is that her subconscious mind projects her fears of abandonment onto YOU. Because this projection occurs entirely at the subconscious level, her mind consciously believes that the danger is coming from YOU. This is why BPDers are able to believe the outrageous allegations coming out of their mouths -- e.g., something as outrageous as your ex-fiancee's claim that the color of two candles means that you want her dead.

 

===> If the danger comes from me, that could explain why her disgust face or unhappy face shows to me. Sometimes, I see her not the same as during the first year. Even different now. What used to be normal and common action for couple becomes strange and uncomfortable in her eyes despite we did lots of romance act.

 

Similarly, my BPDer exW became so fearful I was going to leave her -- at the end of our 15 year marriage -- that she abandoned me. By "abandoned me" I mean she called the police and had me arrested for "brutalizing" her. When I got out of jail 3 days later, I found that she had obtained a restraining order preventing me from returning to my own home for 18 months (the time it takes to get a divorce here). In the way that your ex-fiancee "saw" a death threat in the color of two candles, my exW "saw" brutalization in my attempt to keep her away from a bedroom door she was trying to demolish during one of her temper tantrums.

 

===> I see. I am sorry about that in your case.

 

If she is a BPDer, Wisely, she is filled with so much self loathing that the last thing she wants to find is one more thing to hate about herself. A BPDer's subconscious therefore works 24/7 protecting her fragile ego from seeing too much of reality. It accomplishes this, as I noted above, by projecting the mistakes and fears and bad thoughts onto YOU -- with the result that she believes, at a conscious level, that those problems and fears all originate with you. In this way, a BPDer perceives of herself as "The Victim" and you as "The Perpetrator," i.e., the cause of her every misfortune.

 

===> That is the fact that happened. I am always like the bad guy in her eyes despite no mistake I did or unintentional mistake.

 

If your ex-fiancee is a BPDer, there is a strong probability she experienced a trauma in childhood, probably in early childhood. A recent large-scale study found that 70% of full-blown BPDers report that they were emotionally abused by a parent (as might have been done by your ex's mother) or abandoned by a parent (as her father did when dying) in childhood.

 

===> She did have trauma. Maybe her father passed away triggered that. There are other traumas I know.

I suggest you stay away from this young lady. And, if you ever feel strongly inclined to take her back, I would suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you're dealing with. I also suggest that you protect yourself by learning how to spot the warning signs for BPD.

 

===> Take her back? NO. But see her one last time to make a peace and friends? Yes. However, I am done with that. Today marks the tenth try I try to meet her. Failed again.She really wants to avoid me so much and hate me and avoid being friends with me. OMG

Of course, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your ex-fiancee's issues. Although it is easy to spot strong occurrences of BPD symptoms, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a painful situation, e.g., taking your ex-fiancee back or running into the arms of another woman just like her.

 

===> I thank you for telling me this, It will really help me to learn about this in the future.

 

I also caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your ex-fiancee exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

===> We all do. Even I do. However, I managed to suppressed and control it at any possible.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper third of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," inappropriate jealousy, and temper tantrums.

 

===> I learn psychology about faces, mimicry and body language. I managed to spot lots of hidden feelings and lies of her. Therefore, It shouldnt be too difficult to spot that BPD.

 

I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if most sound very familiar. If they do, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread... and read what it feels like to live with a BPDer for 23 years in Salparadise's post. If those descriptions ring many bells and raise questions, I would be glad to join Donnivaine and other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Wisely.

 

===> I will take a look of that. Thank you very much sir. You have helped me mostly with clear explanation.

 

P.S: I am sorry I took long reply. Had to read carefully your post

[wiselyzzz]

Honestly you need to get a life. I don't know when you separated from your ex wife, but not everyone who acts in certain ways has BPD. They don't need to read warning signs and realize that they have no responsibility in a break up or relationship and that it is all the other person's fault.

 

At the end of the day, you decide if you think any of it is WORTH it - reflect on your OWN behaviours on top of others, and then self improve. Just trying to shift blame to someone else is very resentful/bitter and doesn't help anyone.

 

Identify traits you don't like - and don't pick them in the next partner. Always recognize that you have a choice, no matter what.

 

Or if you want as above, you can continue living in the past and try to influence others too. Moving forward is a healthy thing to do.

 

If jealousy is a deal breaker to you in a relationship, then address it with the person. If they don't listen, then break up with them. You have a choice. You are not helpless.

 

If being inconsiderate is a problem, don't give endless promises to change. Simply identify it and have an adult conversation. If they don't listen, you can leave.

 

Start looking at your own actions and choices. And most of all don't propose to someone if you already have relationship issues. Engagement doesn't fix everything. If anything, it worsens the situation - by making a commitment you both weren't really looking at the root causes to fix.

 

===> I also understand about your advice, sir. I think sir Downtown is doing fine in his life and helping people. Moreover, my issue is quite hard to be solved peacefully with my ex. I can't even understand what and why she must hate me that deep which I think is no big deal since I already apologized long long ago before break up. In the end, maybe it is better if I got dumped anyway. I can't really understand her anymore. Too many suspicions

[wiselyzzz]

On the contrary, Field, a person is said to "have BPD" if he acts in a certain way, i.e., if he exhibits most BPD behaviors at a strong and persistent level. By definition, the BPD symptoms described in the American and European diagnostic manuals are simply a group of 9 behaviors. Hence, when you are seeing 5 of those 9 behaviors in the way a person acts, you are seeing a pattern of behaviors called "BPD."

 

BPD behaviors are normal ego defenses that everyone has to ensure we survive childhood. As I noted above, we all exhibit these behaviors at the full-blown level during childhood and, if we are healthy, at a low level throughout our adult lives.

 

I agree, Field. As I noted above, learning to identify BPD traits "may help you avoid a painful situation, e.g., taking your ex-fiancee back or running into the arms of another woman just like her."

 

===> Downtown, this is the first term of psychology of BPD i ever heard. So, somehow your explanation matches almost perfectly with my case. Yeah, I think it might be related to BPD. Moreover, you also hit the jackpot quite often. Therefore, I am thankful that you have explained very well to me about this. Now I can understand that she is feeling like that to me.

[wiselyzzz]

Or maybe if you're not a psychologist, then you shouldn't be trying to diagnose people off the Internet. This is only one side of the story. It's fine to identify things that are concerning, behaviours that the person should be watching out - but to label everyone as such takes as professional. And psychologists would never do that over the Internet.

 

So instead of being irresponsible, I would suggest not to do that. You obviously have a lot of resentment from your marriage and I hope you are seeing someone. Not everyone needs a specific psych diagnosis to benefit from psychotherapy or counselling.

 

Part of moving on is letting it go. And not to extrapolate one's own experiences onto everyone else's. Each person is unique and every couple's story - the whole story - only they know. Snippets of what people tell others is not accurate portrayal of the whole story.

 

For your sake, I hope you can let go. And forgive - not for the other person, you can't control what they did wrong and what they learned or didn't learn, but you can learn for yourself. And by learning, I don't mean just telling everyone to run away as fast as they can but recognizing what in yourself that you need to build up so you don't tolerate things that are unacceptable to you. That IS what you have control over.

 

And instead of people who are NOT psychologists trying to diagnose people with BPD and using that as a basis for taking back fiances* or dating another person - why not accept you are NOT a psychologist - you can't diagnose people. If there's a behaviour or traits for WHATEVER REASON that you dislike - you work with it, and if you can't, then you leave. Try not to enter a situation with BPD bias or whatever depression/psychosis bias. You are trying to start or renew romantic relationships based on values, compatibility, chemistry etc - and not to make psych diagnoses and try to identify all these things wrong with other people. It takes two to clap. If you can't identify with a certain behaviour or trait, then ask yourself if you can work it out with the person. Why does it matter why?

 

===> I understand how Downtown's life in marriage despite not married yet. Still, we people may always have resentment towards our spouse. Be it temporary or long time. I want to at least hold no resentment even if I have it. I want to let it go. I want to build happy life, not making trouble or be made trouble from my spouse one day. I am a forgiver person, I forgive people easily. Because it is very useless to hold a deep hatred feeling in our heart which poisons our mentality. In this case, I forgive her already though I hope to never see her again cause that would remind me of hurtful past if she still hates me in the future. I think that Downtown and me are not quite different that far. Only perhaps learn to forgive or let it go.

[d0nnivain]

I don't really think your EX has BPD. That can't be diagnosed 3rd hand over the internet anyway.

 

 

Whether she does or not, wiselyzzz, she's not here. You are. You came here seeking help getting over your break up. Even if your EX has BPD, she's not going to be "cured" nor will she come back to you.

 

 

I still think she's an immature 22 year old who once she got a taste of life -- graduation, new job, etc. -- she wanted more & that revised plan didn't include you. I'm sorry that you are in pain but you can't change her mind, nor should you. In some ways she was cruel to you & her stance on your grandfather should have been a deal breaker for you. Don't lose the love & respect of somebody who cares for you unwaveringly (your grandfather) for some silly girl you had a dysfunctional relationship with.

 

 

Start reimaging your future & all the wonderful new things you will experience. Then set out to achieve your new goals. Don't worry about her. Karma will eventually do its thing.

[wiselyzzz]

I don't really think your EX has BPD. That can't be diagnosed 3rd hand over the internet anyway.

 

===> I see. That's okay. I will listen most advice given to me. However, BPD or not, I have told many details about us. So, I guess you can understand the situation now.

 

Whether she does or not, wiselyzzz, she's not here. You are. You came here seeking help getting over your break up. Even if your EX has BPD, she's not going to be "cured" nor will she come back to you.

 

===> That's exactly why I am here. Seeking help for advice. getting cured from broken heart and support from all of you.

 

I still think she's an immature 22 year old who once she got a taste of life -- graduation, new job, etc. -- she wanted more & that revised plan didn't include you. I'm sorry that you are in pain but you can't change her mind, nor should you. In some ways she was cruel to you & her stance on your grandfather should have been a deal breaker for you. Don't lose the love & respect of somebody who cares for you unwaveringly (your grandfather) for some silly girl you had a dysfunctional relationship with.

 

===> Correction, now she's 23 and still immature. You actually hit the point. We graduated together at the same year. I taught her many things I had in my knowledge to help her pass her final exam thesis because she at that time almost gave up and I kept cheering for her. I told her to keep going. Not to mention, I help her by giving more information on how to solve the chapter problem and by looking at her grammar mistake and so on. Apart from that, I taught her lots about technology cause she is not familiar with it, life and more importantly also fixing broken electronic and stuffs. Once she graduated, I felt like she thought she did it all by herself and there is no thanks to me at all though I was not expecting anything. What's worse is that when she got a new job, I was completely abandoned. Let me give you a BEST EXAMPLE. Let's say you are working, and you are too busy every day with 10 hours working with 1 hour break time lunch. That one hour, you should be able to text your lover to show you missed him/her. However, my ex, she didn't text me at all. She said to me that she's busy but I see that it is a complete NONSENSE. Why? Because I see her LINE homepage, she can share some news to her timeline and browsing but she couldn't text to me just like 2 Seconds? Seriously? When I ask her and caught her in act that she's not busy. She said and complained , "You want my coworkers to see our chat? I am not alone you know. I go out lunch with my friends." That kind of response raise alarm suspicion on me. I said to myself why would you be afraid to let the whole world know? If I were you, I wouldn't mind at all as long as I can text my lover. The ridiculous part is we always chat using LINE app. You automatically will see your lover texting while browsing some news in LINE. Yet, she ignored giving me reasons like that. Almost everyday. So, after that new job, everything is taken away between me and her. I trust her, but her trust to me seems like become an issue that time.

She always hate my grandfather despite me telling her to ignore cause he's already old and stubborn. He may be fierce and tough but he is not like that. But yeah, childish as it is, she still hates my grandfather. With further evidence that when my grandfather was sick 5 months ago and was hospitalized. She didnt even want to visit him despite her mom wanted to and told her to not be like that and to visit him. Thanks to her stubborn will, her mom cancelled visiting my grandfather.

Don't worry, I wont lose love and will respect my grandfather despite rough personality.

 

Start reimaging your future & all the wonderful new things you will experience. Then set out to achieve your new goals. Don't worry about her. Karma will eventually do its thing.

 

===> I will, thank you. I have my own goals already ever since she broke me up. I hope she realized her mistake one day.

Edited June 30, 2017 by wiselyzzz
Forgot to Bold my answers

[Downtown]

I managed to spot lots of hidden feelings and lies of her. Therefore, It shouldn't be too difficult to spot that BPD.

I agree, Wisely. As I noted earlier, only professionals can determine whether BPD traits are so severe and persistent as to constitute full-blown BPD. It nonetheless is easy to spot strong occurrences of BPD behaviors.

 

By the time you were 17 or 18, you already could identify the selfish and very grandiose classmates -- without knowing how to diagnose Narcissistic PD. You could identify the class drama queen -- without being able to diagnose Histrionic PD. You could spot the kids having no respect for laws or other peoples' property or feelings -- without diagnosing Antisocial PD. And you could recognize the very shy and over-sensitive classmates -- without diagnosing Avoidant PD.

 

Similarly, you will be able to spot strong BPD traits when they occur. Indeed, you would have to be deaf, dumb, and blind to be unable to spot temper tantrums, verbal abuse, and irrational jealousy.

[guest569]

 

Start reimaging your future & all the wonderful new things you will experience. Then set out to achieve your new goals.

 

I think this is all you can do, wisely. Your story is heart breaking and I'm so sorry it happened to you. There were problems between you that couldn't be resolved but you tried and i think that is what you do when you truly love someone. One thing that stood out was that there seemed to be a communication barrier, that she would make assumptions and be upset that you did not know (why didn't she ask you to join her for tea, or she could have gone with you to eat). Or she would not explain her feelings. Although you wanted it to work, it sounds like your needs werent being met as she would close off and have no contact. Her comments about your grandfather were very strong and hurtful. Also, the fact you were intimate and the happy moments will torture you. The pain will gradually lessen and you might not even realise when it is improving but it will.

 

After my breakups i analysed everything that was said and done throughout relationships and breakups and tried hard to figure out the answers and resolve things. Often, there are no answers and a break up is not something that can be resolved. I think it is a natural part of grieving the loss of a relationship but make sure you allow plenty of time to be with family and friends and think about all the amazing things that lie ahead for you! It is ok to feel sad and pain for now. Remember, things will get a lot better and easier.

[Downtown]

Why not accept you are NOT a psychologist - you can't diagnose people.

Field, nobody on this thread has attempted to diagnose anything. On the contrary, I stated above (post 8) that "At issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper third of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question." And I stated, "...only a professional can determine whether [symptoms] are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD." You are confusing spotting warning signs (i.e., symptoms) with making a diagnosis. As I explain below, there is a world of difference between the two.

 

If you're not a psychologist, then you shouldn't be trying to diagnose people off the Internet.

Again, nobody on this thread is trying to diagnose anything. Wisely doesn't have to be a psychologist or doctor to spot strong BPD or NPD traits. We all know what these behavioral traits look like because we all exhibit them to some degree. It therefore is not difficult to spot strong occurrences when you learn which behavioral traits are on the list.

 

That part is easy. Indeed, it is so easy that hundreds of mental institutions post a list of the nine BPD symptoms on their public internet sites to tell the lay public what symptoms to look for. They know that BPD symptoms, like those for heart attack and breast cancer, are easy to spot.

 

What is hard is being able to diagnose the existence and cause of the full-blown disorder. No doctor on the planet can do a real diagnosis of BPD or any other PD. That would require professionals to identify its underlying cause, which is yet unproven. All discussions of BPD traits, then, are simply descriptions of behavioral symptoms. Those symptoms do not describe the traits or characteristics of the underlying disorder causing the symptoms. Hence, discussing BPD behavioral symptoms is not an attempt to diagnose the underlying disorder -- i.e., not in the way the term "diagnosis" is used in every medical field.

 

Importantly, you don't go to a medical doctor to be told what symptoms you have. Instead, YOU tell the doctor all about your symptoms. Similarly, when you go to an auto repair shop, you don't go to be told about your car's symptoms. Rather, YOU tell the repairman what problems the car is exhibiting and he diagnoses the situation to tell you what is causing those symptoms to occur.

 

Hence, whereas diagnosing a cause is the province of professionals, identifying symptoms is the province of laymen (i.e., the client seeking help). This is why, when a patient is unable to identify disease symptoms, that disease is said to be "asymptomatic," i.e., "without symptoms." By definition, then, symptoms are traits that laymen are able to spot -- without trying to diagnose anything.

 

Because psychologists are unable to actually diagnose the underlying cause of these personality disorders, they are forced to rely on a severe occurrence of the behavioral symptoms to infer the existence of some underlying (but unproven) disorder. Only a professional, then, can determine whether the strong BPD or NPD behaviors you see are sufficiently severe and persistent as to be called full-blown BPD or NPD.

 

Of course, Wisely lacks the professional training necessary to declare such behaviors "full blown." This does not imply, however, that he is unable to spot moderate to strong occurrences of these behaviors. On the contrary, he was able to spot behaviors such as temper tantrums, verbal abuse, and irrational jealousy before he graduated from high school (or from its equivalent in Indonesia).

 

So instead of being irresponsible, I would suggest not to do that. You obviously have a lot of resentment from your marriage....

Field, please refrain from attacking me as being "irresponsible" and claiming that I am motivated by "a lot of resentment." The Community Guidelines prohibit personal attacks. Like you, I am simply trying to help Wisely heal from the abusive relationship he was in.

[guest569]

Like you, I am simply trying to help Wisely heal from the abusive relationship he was in.

 

Why do you feel that the relationship was abusive?

[guest569]

The feeling i get is that there was insecurity and resentment, probably from both wisely and his ex fiance. And she fell out of love and shut down. I don't know about BPD or abuse. They just had hurdles that they couldn't get past and were headed in different directions. Sorry if I am way off, but that was the gist of it for me.

[fieldoflavender]

What I'm saying is that identifying "BPD traits" or any specific traits of a psych disorder is useless. Everyone knows what traits in general are not what they want - and they should look for that within themselves, rather than trying to connect it to any psych condition. Doing so is a type of blame mentality where you don't look within yourself.

 

You see ANY TRAIT that you do NOT accept then ask yourself why you are still with the person, can they change, and what you want to do about it.

 

With this person and yourself, and anyone else - unless your partner was an absolute con-person (which in most cases is NOT the case), then search within yourself first. Especially if you've already left the person. Again, you are posting on here, not the partner. Deal with yourself first instead of trying to figure out what traits in other people. It's not healthy. You know what you need - if other person isn't giving it to you, leave and work on why you were even there for that long.

[fieldoflavender]

Exactly, abusive usually takes 2 to clap. People often act out of character and with emotion dsyregulation when they are very unhappy in a relationship. If it's a persistent pattern, then it may be something about them - but if it's just in that relationship - it likely has more to do with the relationship. Doesn't excuse bad behaviour - but likely being that unhappy is a sign the relationship is not one that's making either side happy.

[Downtown]

Why do you feel that the relationship was abusive?

Smiley, to me it sounds like Wisely's Ex was emotionally abusive based on his following statements (when considered as a whole):

 

• "I broke her up cause she always caused trouble making small simple problem into big which I think its ridiculous."
  
• "I am always like the bad guy in her eyes despite no mistake I did or unintentional mistake."
  
• "She is indeed spoiled, ungrateful and drama queen."
  
• "I managed to spot lots of... lies of her."
  
• "Hated me ever since she said to her mom that white candle is used for praying in Chinese to God. She said that I wanted her to die."
  
• "Trust is really an issue back then. However, I keep trusting myself to trust her and look what I got until break up. A betrayal."
  
• "I can't even understand what and why she must hate me that deep."