Perhaps a bit too cynical, but...

[amerikajin]

...how is a man supposed to feel?

 

To the dudes reading this, all I can say is, if you're lucky enough not to have been placed in a straight jacket howling at four walls by the time you're 31, then you are one of the fortunate few who's been able to survive the world of games, mixed messages, tests and the myriad tripwires and booby traps women place in our paths just to see how we'll react.

 

It seems like every time I finally get over myself, I end up running into the same proverbial brick wall again. I chat a woman up, she seems interested, ask her out, then get this response that's usually "Mmmm....maybe". The only ones who actually show interest of late seem to have eating disorders or other mental imbalances. But if she's remotely sane, then I have to pass her 'tests'.

 

Mmmmm...which one will it be today? The "Oops, you texted me too soon," test? The "I don't really like that movie," test? The "You should wait at least five days to set up the next date, so you don't look too desperate," test? Or the "You express yourself and compliment me too much," test? Or maybe it's the "Can he handle my bulls*** and indecisiveness," test?

 

Why can't you just find someone who's mentally stable, who can enjoy the company of someone, accept the fact that they had a good time and let that be the end of it?

 

Rant over.

[westernxer]

It happens...

 

Don't even ask them out... leave them hanging so they have something to think about the next time you run into each other.

 

I think you might be trying to hard. It's a lot easier when you ease up a bit. I know this from experience.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by amerikajin

I chat a woman up, she seems interested, ask her out, then get this response that's usually "Mmmm....maybe". .

are you talking about Japanese women mainly? Japanese pretty much stick to themselves, unlike Chinese, Korean or Philipino women who love Western men.... if these women are of japanese persuasion then that is a big part of your problem...

[amerikajin]

are you talking about Japanese women mainly? Japanese pretty much stick to themselves, unlike Chinese, Korean or Philipino women who love Western men.... if these women are of japanese persuasion then that is a big part of your problem...

 

I don't want to get too far off track here, but that hasn't been my experience. I'd say Japanese women - at least the younger ones anyway - are into Western guys. Now, true, when they get older, they usually go for a Japanese man to settle down with, but that's for a good reason usually. They know most Western dudes are just here to play, so they look for stability in a Japanese man, and I see nothing wrong with that. As well, I've seen quite a few Chinese women who were too proud to date a Westerner as some J-girls.

 

Anyway...I digress....I don't think that's the problem. Same s***, different place, if you ask me.

 

Exer, I know what you're saying. I don't really think I'm 'trying' as it were; it's just that when I'm interested, I don't think you should have to wait a week to call that person or set up another date. I can usually tell when someone's not having a good time, or when someone's acting like their having a good time but it's contrived.

 

Thing is, I don't even know if someone's pulling my chain or not anymore. Maybe someone really is interested in me, but I am too distrustful at this point to give them the benefit of the doubt. Anytime a woman hesitates or looks like she's beginning to pause, I just get frustrated...I don't want to go through with it so I'm getting to the point where I just stop - everything. Maybe I'm screwing myself, but I just don't even know if I care anymore. Okay, I guess if I didn't care, I wouldn't be writing about it, so obviously I do care - but you hopefully get my point.

 

Why does this s*** have to be so complicated?! Why?!

[alphamale]

Originally posted by amerikajin

Why does this s*** have to be so complicated?! Why?!

sounds to me like you are over analyzing things here....i know you are an intellectual dude cause so am I and guys like us tend to read waaay to much into things. with women the less you think the better off you'll be. you're putting too much thought into whether or not SHE is having a good time or interested when you really should be putting more thought into whether YOU are having a good time or are interested.

 

for many yrs I tried the intellectual approach to dating and women and it just does not work most of the time. women want dominant men with a bit of an ego who are masculine and a bit cocky. you should never be afraid to tell a good looking women to "f*** off" to her face. unfortunately we have to pander to womens feelings and emotions to get them into bed so that is why the intellectual approach does not work.

[shamen]

Originally posted by amerikajin

Mmmmm...which one will it be today? The "Oops, you texted me too soon," test? The "I don't really like that movie," test? The "You should wait at least five days to set up the next date, so you don't look too desperate," test? Or the "You express yourself and compliment me too much," test? Or maybe it's the "Can he handle my bulls*** and indecisiveness," test?

 

Why can't you just find someone who's mentally stable, who can enjoy the company of someone, accept the fact that they had a good time and let that be the end of it?

 

 

Hi Amerikajin,

 

Women have the same problems. Let's see, the "don't sleep with me too soon or you won't be relationship material" test, the "don't call or text too much" test, the "don't expect me to do what I say" test, etc., etc.

 

I too would like the above, mentally stable, etc. I refuse to settle, have though about it, but not willing to. So, I stay, usually anyway, a serial monogamist. Sick of dating right now. Sick of the crap, like you.

 

Originally posted by amerikajin

Exer, I know what you're saying. I don't really think I'm 'trying' as it were; it's just that when I'm interested, I don't think you should have to wait a week to call that person or set up another date. I can usually tell when someone's not having a good time, or when someone's acting like their having a good time but it's contrived.

 

Thing is, I don't even know if someone's pulling my chain or not anymore. Maybe someone really is interested in me, but I am too distrustful at this point to give them the benefit of the doubt. Anytime a woman hesitates or looks like she's beginning to pause, I just get frustrated...I don't want to go through with it so I'm getting to the point where I just stop - everything. Maybe I'm screwing myself, but I just don't even know if I care anymore. Okay, I guess if I didn't care, I wouldn't be writing about it, so obviously I do care - but you hopefully get my point.

 

Why does this s*** have to be so complicated?! Why?!

 

Again, I'm with you. I don't think that this is just a male problem, Amer. I think that I tend to be way too blunt. I usually say what I think, gets me in trouble.

 

I don't think that people should have to wait a week to set up another date. Seems silly to me.

 

Cynical and taking a break, I can do! When you're ready to give this complicated sh*t another chance, you'll know it. I too wish that it wasn't that complicated.

 

Originally posted by alphamale

sounds to me like you are over analyzing things here....i know you are an intellectual dude cause so am I and guys like us tend to read waaay to much into things.

 

for many yrs I tried the intellectual approach to dating and women and it just does not work most of the time. women want dominant men with a bit of an ego who are masculine and a bit cocky. you should never be afraid to tell a good looking women to "f*** off" to her face. unfortunately we have to pander to womens feelings and emotions to get them into bed so that is why the intellectual approach does not work.

 

Alpha, I don't think that an intellectual approach is necessarily a bad thing. Amer is taking a break, trying to figure out what the deal is with dating and who he is in that arena.

 

(See my above comment on the "sleeping with me too soon" test. And if I remember correctly, you are one of those people with whom one would need to pass the test in order to have a relationship!)

[amerikajin]

Alpha,

 

It's hard to change who I am - I am addicted to the intellectual, analytical way of doing things, and I don't know if I can ever kick the habit. Some people are 'gut' instinct players, and I think they do better at this dating game than do guys like me because they are more in tune with their emotions and feelings. I don't mean that in the girlie man sense, I mean that in the sense that these guys just know how to create a mood, because mood is what they are all about. I think you're one of those kinds of guys.

 

Me? Look, I agree, I can change who I am and do all that player, speed seduction b.s. and go out and get laid. In fact I went through a period a while back where I did that a time or two just after I broke up with my most recent ex, but man, I felt like s*** afterward. It's just so hollow. It doesn't do anything for my self image, I look back on that period with nothing but regrets.

 

I just want someone I can share a deep trust and bond with. I know it's a snowball's chance in hell that it'll happen here, but I gotta start somewhere dammit.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by amerikajin

Alpha,

 

It's hard to change who I am - I am addicted to the intellectual, analytical way of doing things, and I don't know if I can ever kick the habit.

Well I don't know where you go to meet women or what type of women you date but if you are resigned to using this approach then you need to find women that are looking for this type of guy. Going to a dance club would probably be a bad place to find these women but you may find some at a more intellectual place. Maybe you are dating women that are your intellectual inferior and you get bored with them, or they think you are too smart for them? You're not gonna find too many 'sex goddesses' if you want to date smart women but, hey, we all have to compromise on many things in life.

 

You should re-assess what you are looking for in a woman and then go and try to find a women like that.

[jellybean]

Originally posted by alphamale

you should never be afraid to tell a good looking women to "f*** off" to her face.

[Outcast]

Anytime a woman hesitates or looks like she's beginning to pause, I just get frustrated...I don't want to go through with it so I'm getting to the point where I just stop - everything

 

Every now and then I read one of your posts about relationships and what strikes me is that you seem to respond with anger/frustration quite quickly to perceived slights.

 

First thing to remember, I think, is that most people have some issue or other - or maybe several issues - to deal with. A lot of people are shy or insecure or both. Some are confused and others are disorganized so if somebody hesitates, I think you take it too personally when it probably has nothing to do with you.

 

I don't agree that you over-intellectualize but I do think you need to chill. I get the sense that you're a bit uptight or high-strung and the ladies might read that from you. Drop your whole mass of preconceived notions when you approach someone and maybe try approaching on the basis of being friends only to relax yourself when you do so. Drop your expectations and if you're more relaxed, I bet you'll get a better response.

[crispy]

I happen to read some of your threads. I may have missed some, nonetheless, let me chime in here and give you my opinion.

 

Originally posted by amerikajin

Mmmmm...which one will it be today? The "Oops, you texted me too soon," test? The "I don't really like that movie," test? The "You should wait at least five days to set up the next date, so you don't look too desperate," test? Or the "You express yourself and compliment me too much," test? Or maybe it's the "Can he handle my bulls*** and indecisiveness," test?

Isn't this a bit hypocritical of someone who usually complains about women smothering him? Would you like them to text you the next day or wouldn't this make you think that they are too nice for you? Too clingy? Too desperate?

 

Originally posted by amerikajin

I just want someone I can share a deep trust and bond with. I know it's a snowball's chance in hell that it'll happen here, but I gotta start somewhere dammit.

Get in line with the other nice guys who are "just" looking for someone to love them back. It's never only about finding someone to love you back, there are plenty of nice girls out there who are also looking for someone to love them back. Your problem is not that you can't find someone, your problem is that you reach for the unattainable pretty girls, the challenges, the ones who will give you self-confidence when you get them. Are you sure it's them you want, the real person behind their pretty shell, or just what they present to you?

 

Originally posted by Outcast

Every now and then I read one of your posts about relationships and what strikes me is that you seem to respond with anger/frustration quite quickly to perceived slights.

 

First thing to remember, I think, is that most people have some issue or other - or maybe several issues - to deal with. A lot of people are shy or insecure or both. Some are confused and others are disorganized so if somebody hesitates, I think you take it too personally when it probably has nothing to do with you.

 

I don't agree that you over-intellectualize but I do think you need to chill. I get the sense that you're a bit uptight or high-strung and the ladies might read that from you. Drop your whole mass of preconceived notions when you approach someone and maybe try approaching on the basis of being friends only to relax yourself when you do so. Drop your expectations and if you're more relaxed, I bet you'll get a better response.

The only good post in the whole thread. Kudos to you, you're the only one who got it right.

[amerikajin]

Every now and then I read one of your posts about relationships and what strikes me is that you seem to respond with anger/frustration quite quickly to perceived slights.

 

But it is frustrating to not find what you're looking for, isn't it? I don't think the women I'm going for are what I would describe as 'unattainable'? I just find some women especially appealing, and I find that they really attract me. I don't go after playboy centerfold models or anything like that - not that that's the kind of girl I'd want, but you get the point.

 

I know that at times I do over-react to perceived slights - guilty as charged on that count. I do have insecurities, and I'm trying to work through them. I think the situation has also been exacerbated by some family problems and general relationship/satisfaction with my life etc' problems that have emerged recently, which undoubtedly compounds the problem.

 

First thing to remember, I think, is that most people have some issue or other - or maybe several issues - to deal with. A lot of people are shy or insecure or both. Some are confused and others are disorganized so if somebody hesitates, I think you take it too personally when it probably has nothing to do with you.

 

I think I probably do jump the gun in some cases, but usually, in my experiences, if someone is interested, they make it obvious. I don't mean they climb all over you or call you every night, but they don't send mixed messages. But some people, as you say, aren't always so graceful socially. Perhaps I need to be more tolerant of that.

 

I don't agree that you over-intellectualize but I do think you need to chill. I get the sense that you're a bit uptight or high-strung and the ladies might read that from you. Drop your whole mass of preconceived notions when you approach someone and maybe try approaching on the basis of being friends only to relax yourself when you do so. Drop your expectations and if you're more relaxed, I bet you'll get a better response.

 

You know it's funny you mention that. Reading Exer's post made me reflect on the time I had my one long-term relationship. I was totally absorbed in other things like my career - so much so that I didn't really care, and to some extent, tried to avoid a long-term commitment. But I don't have that mentality right now, I'm just free-floating, with too many options at my disposal. Maybe I need to find some other passion that will divert my attention away from women.

[RecordProducer]

Originally posted by amerikajin

Why can't you just find someone who's mentally stable, who can enjoy the company of someone, accept the fact that they had a good time and let that be the end of it?

 

Welcome to the club, dude! Ya think you're the only one who has a problem to find someone good? We spend most of our lives waiting for the prince(ss), taking people's crap, and being disappointed in our partners. Such is love. Such is life.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by amerikajin

. Maybe I need to find some other passion that will divert my attention away from women.

that is a good idea AMERIKAJIN. The less you try with women the better you'll do in the long run. Just make sure that the other "passion" doesn't including hitting the gay bars.

 

By the way, how are gays treated in Japan?

[amerikajin]

Don't worry, Alpha, I won't be hitting any gay bars anytime soon, although there's nothing wrong with being gay if that's what floats someone's boat.

 

By the way, how are gays treated in Japan?

 

You know, I'm not entirely sure myself; that's an interesting question, really.

 

My first inclination is to say that they're treated okay. There is an anti-gay stigma here, but it's nothing like the virulent anti gay sentiment that exists back in the United States; I'm not aware of any gay bashing incidents or anything like that. I think the Japanese probably treat gays like anyone else who doesn't fit within the socially accepted norms. They're definitely outcasts, and they are to some extent shunned by society, but it usually results in nothing more than social isolation - a kind of social quarantine, you might say.

 

I think gays probably find more support and acceptance within the Tokyo area, which is probably the most liberal community you'll find in Japan. Osaka's big but its more industrial and working-class; its people are married to convention and they are more conservative than their larger brethren to the East.