Coping plus Mental Illness

[Guzzard]

It turned cooler, rainy, and grey here today.

 

I'm feeling a bit down. The combination of the cleaning up and stirring thoughts, the fact that we had plans scheduled next week that now either won't occur and I will do alone, and the gloomy day.

 

It's hard to fathom having a bad day here, I should be done with this by now. I get stuck on thinking if only she was willing to see the value in our marriage. We could get into a pdoc, establish a treatment plan, and start handling this as a team and couple again.

 

I would be telling someone in the same situation to keep focusing on themselves and keep busy to keep the thoughts out of your head. Whatever she does, she does, you can't control it or fix her. It's not fixable, left untreated and with additional baggage is just asking for it to repeat again and again and get worse over time. She has a pattern, look at the past, the pattern has repeated. Your just the next in a repeated pattern of blowing up lives and relationships. She'll do it again and don't let her do it to you again. The pain she's caused already, the distrust and unknowns with the mental health. Is that really worth it...considering it wasn't worth it to her to do anything about the entire situation. Why on earth get stuck on and pine for someone like this. Get your act together, keep moving on, and you'll find someone that truly values and loves you enough to want to be by your side. Stop being a codependent fixer and make yourself happy and do things for you. You can't fix and can't fill the voids in people like her, only she can and that void will follow her everywhere until she really addresses it.

[Downtown]

Guzzard, thanks for giving us an update. Sorry you're having a down day. But it sure sounds like you're giving yourself excellent advice. It's normal for the intuitive, emotional part of your mind (i.e., "the child") to lag many months behind the logical, rational part (i.e., "the adult"). Whereas the adult can learn new insights rapidly, the child takes a much longer time because it generally learns from emotional experiences, not logic.

 

In my case, it took well over a year for my adult to convince my child that the new-found knowledge in my head was a sound basis on which to base action: going full NC with my exW. As you are painfully aware, it takes time to convert the knowledge into a gut-level understanding we call "wisdom."

[Guzzard]

Thanks Downtown, I appreciate the reply. One thing I have been beginning to realize again is that gut wisdom. A number of people have me asking me lately .... what's your gut instinct ... I think I got away from relying on my gut both after she left and even prior with some of the behaviors ... in my gut, I knew better, but the head and heart want to analyze and rationalize and I got away from trusting my gut or I avoided that it was right.

[Guzzard]

Downtown... Do you have any experience with mirroring?

 

Something that has been bugging me lately is in the overall time with my wife, I am feeling that a lot of our relationship may have been built on her mirroring my likes, interests, attitudes, etc and causing a loss of self and her identity.

 

In the past year or so, I saw her do - what I would call mirroring - the same in her obsessive pursuit of the older man. She started liking things he did, adopted his interests, took on his viewpoint on life, became ingrained in his life, changed her religious views to his, etc.

 

As this happened I would question the sudden shifts and be told they were her choices for other reasons.... but in hindsight, it is rather uncanny that we had so much in common personality wise as we dated and how similar we were in so many ways that mirroring came to mind..... then seeing her shift to start to mirror this other old guy now makes me think I can see where she started mirroring him and "un" mirroring me.

[Downtown]

I am feeling that a lot of our relationship may have been built on her mirroring my likes, interests, attitudes, etc and causing a loss of self and her identity.

Guzzard, if she is a BPDer, her mirroring (of you) did not cause "a loss of self and her identity." Rather, the reverse is true. Her lack of self identity caused the mirroring to occur. A BPDer never has the opportunity to develop an integrated sense of self during childhood. She therefore goes through life not knowing who she really is. Due to this weak, unstable sense of self, BPDers are attracted to people having a strong, stable personality who can provide them with that missing self identity.

 

Yet, when you do EXACTLY that and provide what she so sorely needs, she will resent you for being "controlling" and "suffocating" her. If this seems strange, remember that while we are children, we all sorely need our parents' guidance and rely heavily on them to ground us and provide direction -- and, of course, we resent the fact that we are so dependent on them. This is the way we all behave when we are emotionally immature.

 

In the past year or so, I saw her do - what I would call mirroring - the same in her obsessive pursuit of the older man. She started liking things he did, adopted his interests, took on his viewpoint on life, became ingrained in his life, changed her religious views to his, etc.

If she has strong narcissistic or sociopathic traits, the mirroring likely is a deliberate action intended to manipulate the older man. If she is a BPDer, however, the mirroring likely is neither deliberate nor manipulative. Instead, it is unavoidable because a BPDer has no strong self identity to guide her. She therefore has been relying on mirroring, from an early age, to fit in and be loved. She lacks the emotional skills and maturity to do otherwise. This is why, during the infatuation period at the beginning of a new relationship, the BPDer usually is just as convinced she has found her "soul mate" as is her partner.

 

As this happened I would question the sudden shifts and be told they were her choices for other reasons.... but in hindsight, it is rather uncanny that we had so much in common personality wise as we dated and how similar we were in so many ways that mirroring came to mind..... then seeing her shift to start to mirror this other old guy now makes me think I can see where she started mirroring him and "un" mirroring me.

Yes, it is very disconcerting to the abandoned ex-partners to see the BPDers leave them and start shacking up with someone who is totally different and has very different values. It is common, on relationship forums like LoveShack, to read about young professionals who are absolutely shocked to see their BPDer ex-partners leave them to go live with a biker partner or one who is heavily into drugs. These young professionals cannot see how it is even possible for an adult completely replace one set of values and goals with an entirely different set. Edited August 5, 2017 by Downtown

[Guzzard]

Thanks Downtown. It's a tough thing to deal with and a tough thing to understand. I would have originally said that she was not "without her own identity" but more that she had "an unclear sense of indentity".

 

Obviously I am not qualified to know but this stuff fascinates me and helps me release some of my own hurt, but in thinking about her pattern, each relationship she has had that I am aware of the details of, it is true that whatever the guy was into, she was not just into but obsessed with. I assumed that's how she met those people, but its quite possible that she was mirrroring.

 

It is interesting too that in those relationships, her SOs all had ONE thing they were 150% passionate about. She went from 150% religious to 150% athiest to 150% on a specific hobby based on who she was in a relationship with at those times, but it was always all in on ONE thing.

 

An interesting thing in our relationship is that I am a person of variety, there is not ONE thing that I put that level of passion into. There are 10 things that I put that level of passion into. I wonder if that creates difficulty for her. She was never obsessive about my 10 things, but appeared to also like and enjoy them very much.

[Downtown]

I would have originally said that she was not "without her own identity" but more that she had "an unclear sense of indentity".

Sorry, Guzzard. When I said a BPDer has a "weak, unstable sense of self," I did not mean to imply she is totally absent any sense of identity. The identity is there but weak and unstable -- or, as you say, "unclear." Generally, to the extent a BPDer has a persistent (but weak) sense of identity, it usually is the false self image of being "The Victim," always "The Victim." If your Ex has strong BPD traits, this false identity likely would be evident in the way she refuses to accept responsibility for her own actions -- and blames all misfortunes on her partner.

[Guzzard]

Thanks again Downtown.

 

It is interesting. I think she definitely had the victim part down. The blame less so... she would blame herself for day to day misfortunes... but for bigger misfortunes she would moreso blame me. She rather constantly talked about losing her identity though and I know there was ongoing work to diagnose dissociation - nonspecific, but that never concluded.

[Downtown]

I know there was ongoing work to diagnose dissociation - nonspecific, but that never concluded.

Guzzard, the American DSM-5 does not have a diagnostic category with that exact name. There is a category called Dissociative Identity Disorder. And there is a category called Other Specified Dissociative Disorder. But your wife's doctor likely was talking about a third category called Unspecified Dissociative Disorder.

 

It is a residual category that is used -- often as a "working diagnosis" until more information is known -- when a dissociative episode or experience significantly distresses a person and/or impacts ability to function in daily life but does not meet all the criteria for one of the established, known dissociative disorders. This diagnosis is often used, for example, when a person has met all but one symptom criteria for a particular dissociative disorder. This is my understanding, at least. You will find a professional description of it at PsychCentral.

[Guzzard]

Yes, the diagnosis was not concluded yet so it was not a finished diagnosis. From my view, there were not multiple personalities. There were voices during bipolar episodes that had psychosis, but it was not ongoing and it was not distinct personalities. Like you said, I believe this was the diagnosis, because it was not concluded yet.

[Downtown]

From my view, there were not multiple personalities. There were voices during bipolar episodes that had psychosis, but it was not ongoing and it was not distinct personalities.

At its most extreme, dissociation would be experienced as multiple personalities. At very mild levels, however, we all experience dissociation many times a day in the form of daydreams, which give us an escape from boredom or stressful situations. Dissociation thus is something we all experience daily to some degree. It is any of a wide array of experiences from mild detachment from our immediate surroundings to a more severe detachment from our physical and emotional experience. The major characteristic of all dissociative phenomena involves a detachment from reality, not a loss of reality as in psychosis.

 

A common experience of dissociation, for example, is the sudden realization -- while driving a car -- that you cannot recall seeing or doing anything for the past ten minutes, not even the three lighted intersections you had to have driven through. Another example is the time you walked to the kitchen for food but, on opening the refrigerator, you suddenly realize you have forgotten what you were looking for. In these examples, your conscious mind was daydreaming a thousand miles away -- while your subconscious mind was performing the task of driving you carefully through three intersections and walking you around furniture in the living room on your way to the kitchen.

[Guzzard]

At its most extreme, dissociation would be experienced as multiple personalities. At very mild levels, however, we all experience dissociation many times a day in the form of daydreams, which give us an escape from boredom or stressful situations. Dissociation thus is something we all experience daily to some degree. It is any of a wide array of experiences from mild detachment from our immediate surroundings to a more severe detachment from our physical and emotional experience. The major characteristic of all dissociative phenomena involves a detachment from reality, not a loss of reality as in psychosis.

 

Yes, the detachment from reality was a real and frequent thing for my wife. I would have called in moderate, except in the past year it seemed to escalate and in the last couple of months I would have called it more toward severe. I don't know if it is a triggerable thing, but there was a stressor that happen right before it escalated.

[Guzzard]

I had a surprise today in the form of an email from my wife. She talked about divorce proceedings, added some friendliness and that said she misses me, wants to be friends, is sorry for the pain, and she is to blame.

 

The right thing to do would be not to respond. They are words and no actions. They are still about her and the fact that she wants emotions or ego stroke from me. Plus with everything described in the thread, it would be the best choice. She not saying anything else so there really is nothing.

 

It's always the hooks like this that try to tug on your heartstrings and raise expectations though. Makes you want validate them with a response but without expectations.

[Downtown]

The right thing to do would be not to respond.

Smart decision, Guzzard. I'm glad to hear that, ten weeks after SHE abandoned you, you are holding firm to NC. Your STBXW won't have any incentive to stay on her medication if people continue to protect her from suffering the logical consequences (e.g., divorce) of her own bad choices.

[Guzzard]

Unfortunately it hasn't been a firm hold on NC. We have had to communicate several times relative to divorce proceedings. There have been 1, 2, and 3 week gaps where I have stayed NC, but otherwise there have been calls, emails, and a couple of meetings. Sometimes I stick to just business, sometimes I failed. This latest gap was about 3 weeks though.

[Guzzard]

Now I also received a text message and voicemail that said she was thinking of me and checking if I received the email.

 

Though none of it really says anything and its all words and no actions.

 

Even with the hurt that was caused me and the entire back story, it still sets me back every time there is communication and they know how to tug on your heartstrings with the tone of voice and I miss you's.

[Downtown]

As you said earlier, Guzzard, "The right thing to do would be not to respond."

[Guzzard]

So now I just got a note that I'm not sure what it's intent is that basically said she has been ignoring her wild side too long and now she has to embrace it because that is her, she only thought she wanted to be married and now realizes she never wanted that.

 

Great, thanks for making my head spin again and for taking 10 years to come up with this. Wtf.

[Chin Up]

Wow, how could she not know that would hurt you!? There was no need to send you that. She'd told you all that when she ended it. This just comes off as cruel and meant to rub it in your face. The mind fkery they pull is amazing.

 

I read somewhere that summer mania typically hits its peak in august/September, this might play a part. I hope you didn't answer her. How mean, to pop up, rip the scab off, and disappear again.

 

I actually woke up in the dumps today. Had a dream about my ex that I don't remember. Just that he was in it, got me upset and woke up that way. Been thinking about him all day cuz of it.

 

Even tho I ended it, like you I struggle with how cold, insensitive and indifferent he's become. Also read that's a sign of mania, but its confusing and hurts to not know if its cuz he's legit fine with breakup, or if it's the mania. I try not to think about it, but I get upset thinking he "might" crash and go "omfg what have I done!?" and be devastated by all this.

 

3 times I asked him if he was willing to work on things. First time he said he didn't know. If you don't know if you want to be with me, it's prob a no. Tho, he's manic so he probably really doesn't know lol. 2nd time he side stepped the question, and the last and most recent time was 2 weeks ago today. He told me he couldn't try right now, doesn't have the time or the energy. Ok. I asked him how he's been and he never answered, so it's been 2weeks nc as well.

 

Some days I'm glad he's gone and I don't have to deal with his sht anymore, then days like today I burst with hope that he's going to crash soon, realize how much he loves and misses me, and be willing to go on his meds and start AA and the sweet and kind him will be back. I know its best to not daydream about it cuz I don't want to wake up in November to the hard slap that it wasn't just mania, he really is gone.

 

I don't even recognize him anymore. He says inconsiderate things like "I don't miss this, I don't miss that!" When he'd come around. Going on about his crazy social life and activities "played 18 holes the other day, oh yeah, I always told you I'd teach you how to golf but never did. Oops haha" and I sit there feeling an inch tall cuz he's so confident and having a blast and I'm stuck picking up the pieces, still.

 

Sorry lol I'm rambling. Just feels good to vent to someone that knows how it is. Friends just say "whatever, he's bipolar" like that helps. Day after I ended things he came home and screamed at me for 1.5 hours about what a piece of garbage I am and why it should have been him that broke up with me. He was totally psychotic raging so I took off for a few nights. He never apologized for any of it and it still hurts cuz I wonder if he meant those things.

 

One things for sure, I'm going to stay single for a looong time after this lol

[Guzzard]

Wow, how could she not know that would hurt you!? There was no need to send you that. She'd told you all that when she ended it. This just comes off as cruel and meant to rub it in your face.

 

Yeah, it feels like I've been dumped 5 times already. Plus she was the first one to talk about moving from dating to more and from more to marriage so that makes it especially awesome. I actually think she does not realize the hurt the various tidbits cause. I was just getting my head back on right and now it spins a little again.

 

I read somewhere that summer mania typically hits its peak in august/September, this might play a part. I hope you didn't answer her. How mean, to pop up, rip the scab off, and disappear again.

 

No, I did not answer. I don't even make sense of it really. I know depression would set in for her come Oct-Nov. I not really sure now that I think of it when her hypo/mania would actually leave and if she'd have a stable period or perhaps it didn't end until depression set in.

 

I actually woke up in the dumps today. Had a dream about my ex that I don't remember. Just that he was in it, got me upset and woke up that way. Been thinking about him all day cuz of it.

 

Sorry to hear you're having a bad day, I hope you can shake it and turn it around.

 

Even tho I ended it, like you I struggle with how cold, insensitive and indifferent he's become. Also read that's a sign of mania, but its confusing and hurts to not know if its cuz he's legit fine with breakup, or if it's the mania.

 

Yeah, I have given up on that part. Don't think about it! Just take care of yourself, when and if something like that happens then you are better suited to deal with it. For me, even if mine realizes it, I no longer see a solution that is satisfactory to me anymore.

 

3 times I asked him if he was willing to work on things.

 

I did too, the first time I got 'no' and then the next couple of time I got that she just couldn't explain what was going on and it didn't make sense to her either. So, I quit there.

 

 

so it's been 2weeks nc as well.

 

Keep up the no contact! It is what helps us most!

 

Some days I'm glad he's gone and I don't have to deal with his sht anymore, then days like today I burst with hope that he's going to crash soon, realize how much he loves and misses me, and be willing to go on his meds and start AA and the sweet and kind him will be back. I know its best to not daydream about it cuz I don't want to wake up in November to the hard slap that it wasn't just mania, he really is gone.

 

Be careful with this so you aren't stuck waiting. Take care of yourself that you are not anticipating November. I was doing the same thing and it was really making me be stuck. It all just nonsense and I'm going to take care of do what is best for me. Whatever happens with her is on her. Mistake or no mistake, right now I don't care. I miss what we had, but that won't come back anyway. I question what was real vs not in it now anyway.

 

I don't even recognize him anymore. He says inconsiderate things like "I don't miss this, I don't miss that!" When he'd come around. Going on about his crazy social life and activities "

 

Yep, I see the same with mine. An interesting thing for me though is that she can do and say certain things with her friends, but she can't do that with her family.... her family knows me and wouldn't believe it. Unfortunately, I wish her family also knew and took her mental health seriously.

 

Sorry lol I'm rambling. Just feels good to vent to someone that knows how it is. Friends just say "whatever, he's bipolar" like that helps.

 

Go ahead and ramble! I am too. Yes, my friends and family that don't understand the mental illness and disorders don't really get it. Even I don't really get it and neither do our SO's probably. I guess what they mean though is pointing out that its a lifetime issue.

[Chin Up]

Just an off day. Most of the time I'm angry and fed up that I tolerated so much crap. It wasn't all bad of course, but the bad stuff should have sent me packing long ago, but I stuck around.

 

Today I feel a bit like after the breakup. Still blows my mind he wasn't upset in the slightest that I ended things. Not a single call and the texts were 98% about getting his stuff. Not once asked if I was OK (I was distraught when I broke up with him and for the month he was here before moving) didn't want to end it but knew nothing would change. Never asked how ive been, didnt ask me anything about me or my life at all. Not a single I love you, or I miss you, not one drunk call or text. I did all of those to him tho and regret it lol but its hard to stop caring about someone.

 

Most of the time it confirms I made the right choice in ending things, but there's something unnerving and hurtful about it. Can't help but wonder how long I'd been going to bed every night with someone that was totally indifferent about me.

 

At the very least, I'd just like an appology. And no, I don't plan on waiting for him lol I stopped that long ago. Just stewing in the pity pot today. Tomorrow I'll be back being angry or indifferent.

 

Im still stunned she sent that to you. Its almost maddening cuz there was obviously a reason for it, and it makes sense to her, but to anyone else it just seems unnecessarily cruel. It would have been hard for me not to reply with "fuzz off."

 

Nc has been easy now that the loose ends are tied up. Since he's never bothered to contact me aside from collecting his things, I don't have to worry about it and I'm so ticked off that I don't even want to talk to him. I'm too old for this crap lol.

 

Is she still plowing through her money, that you know?

[Guzzard]

Just an off day. Most of the time I'm angry and fed up that I tolerated so much crap. It wasn't all bad of course, but the bad stuff should have sent me packing long ago, but I stuck around.

 

Yeah, I am not angry but I guess disappointed with myself for putting up with some things I should not have. Most of our time was good.

 

Today I feel a bit like after the breakup. Still blows my mind he wasn't upset in the slightest that I ended things. Not a single call and the texts were 98% about getting his stuff. Not once asked if I was OK (I was distraught when I broke up with him and for the month he was here before moving) didn't want to end it but knew nothing would change. Never asked how ive been, didnt ask me anything about me or my life at all. Not a single I love you, or I miss you, not one drunk call or text. I did all of those to him tho and regret it lol but its hard to stop caring about someone.

 

Really the same for me, it seems to be the MO of them. I did get a few breadcrumbs but nothing to really speak of. It makes more sense in my case though because she did the running.

 

At the very least, I'd just like an appology. And no, I don't plan on waiting for him lol I stopped that long ago.

 

I did sort of get an apology at least, but it was just the words and no actual recognition of sorry for exactly what... plus is was followed by something she wanted so it was likely less apology and more to get what she wanted.

 

Im still stunned she sent that to you. Its almost maddening cuz there was obviously a reason for it, and it makes sense to her, but to anyone else it just seems unnecessarily cruel. It would have been hard for me not to reply with "fuzz off."

 

I don't know either, I assume it's disorder related. It hurts to get that contact, but really she has too much up within herself that either someday she will really resolve or she will just repeat her pattern of destroying other people. Either way, I think its clear, especially since she seems in denial now (she wasn't in denial before as she was going to doc and doing meds) and its too much for me if she wants to stay untreated or live with accepting it for whatever it does to her.

 

Is she still plowing through her money, that you know?

 

I don't know anymore, the last time I knew was a month ago or longer now roughly. My issue now is that though the divorce is filed there is some other basic paperwork that has to be done and she won't get her part done for over a month now. It's 10 minutes of work. What's up with that coupled with her few breadcrumb notes.