Wife still sees me even after Divorce Filed

[abitrandom82]

Hello Everyone,

 

I am new here and stumbled upon this forum as I am going through a tough situation. I've been reading a few of the latest threads and I find this site to be quite helpful based on the variety of close-knit responses people receive and lean on. This is what I am hoping to get to be honest

 

To preface, I will be writing things below that some or most of you might find glaring and despicable to some. I am open to constructive input even if it has a judgmental undertone. My apologies if this is long.

 

Not sure where to start, but my wife of 6years (known her for 10years) left me 2 months ago and moved onto a new apartment her parents bought for her (which the plan was us to move into). She handed me divorce papers which was the typical blow to my gut and I did not want to sign them. I got pretty pathetic as I usually resort to breaking down emotionally, depressive tantrums-suicidal thoughts/threats/attempts, and crying. I know it sounds bad, but I have been battling Borderline Personality Disorder for quite some time and have been taking a variety of medications for it - it's been my mission through weekly therapy (intermittent during our relationship, but now 2-3 times week) to ultimately remove this death-sentence disorder, as I feel I get hit with splitting emotions and outbursts more than the average normal person, (as was the norm in our relationship for many years). I didn't ask for this disorder, but I am quite ashamed admitting that I have it as it quite frankly takes control over me with relationships.

 

Our relationship had great times, bad times, and tumultuous abusive times (mostly verbally, we had a few moments of physical shoving and slapping in the beginning because of our fiery personas, and I was super controlling to where I didn't want her going out for fear of losing her which is the operative base with Borderline people). It was a co-dependent relationship but we were very much in love even though I had a sick way of showing it, to where she acquiesced in the beginning due to her love for me, but warped into a firmer person with a retaliatory stance towards the latter part of our relationship. She's a sweet hearted person who always sees the good in people - when we got together she inspired me, domesticated me, and pushed me to succeed career wise. She was loyal and had my back always, but I always had this image of her finding someone else to replace me via my delusional fears.

 

The first time she left me was quite extreme, I had a suicidal moment/action to where she found me and starting screaming and slapping me while I was under the influence of an overdose, I slapped her back in a moment of rage and the bystanders called the cops to where I was arrested with an order issued. We were separated for 3 weeks with no contact and I tried to get her back at all costs. I ended up writing her a 50 page novella (sort of a metaphorical memoir of our relationship mixed with fantasy and time travel, printed in parchment paper with ribbons. My dad left it in her apartment since she still walked her/our dog while she was at work. She ended up loving it, we got back together after 3 weeks and I re-proposed to her since I never bought her a real ring.. In a super romantic day.

 

Flash forward 2 years with the splitting ups/downs, we were becoming more and more distant due to my paranoia of her working at a new job at a Hotel and she was meeting new people. I felt she was distancing herself and paying more attention to her career and potential good looking men in the industry she might want to pursue/or they were pursuing her. This is disgusting: but I constantly checked her phone, text messages, her facebook, and even tracked her - it was an addiction that I know was violating but I couldn't stop it. If you want to judge I understand.

 

She still loved me and couldn't let go. Her parents bought an apartment a few months back which I had the fear it was for her (as a sanctuary and ploy) to remove her from this setting and have her leave me. She furnished the apartment and constantly dealing with contractors to which I helped removed some awful ones. My fear the last few months was that she was moving - but she kept telling me that she doesn't know and that is her parents apartment (they are from Russia) which they will rent out/flip.

 

Her mother finally came 3 months back, stayed with us and saw the abusive trip I was in/panicking all the time and harassing her. She removed her from the apartment during our last outburst and my wife said she wasn't coming back and to please sign the Undisputed divorce papers she gave me to which I said I can never let go. She removed her stuff from my apartment a day while I was scheduled to work, but didn't go feeling she would come to get her stuff - to which she did as I caught the tail end of it.

 

I had weeks of crying, meeting up with her, begging her to come back and telling her I am going to therapy and that I will change... she was suffering to as we met up a few times and she cried but didn't want to see me due to external influence from her friend that hates me and her mother. I tried to end my life, (pathetic yes, but the pain and thoughts I go thru are like a typhoon instead of a puddle for most normal people due to my condition) it didn't work.

 

I ended up signing the papers due to advice from my family and therapists. It killed me inside and it killed her while we were doing it. But I remained in strong spirits and made it comfortable for her during the process we went to get it signed. I didn't cry, but I made her laugh during the time to make it memorable. We ended up hanging out that nite and we had a great time as we were together still. Holding hands, I kissed her on the neck, cheek, peck on the mouth to where she showed semi-resistance but accepted. She said she was so happy she can speak to me and have fluid open hearted conversations as I was listening to her and offering advice with her current job situation. She resorted a lot to hanging out super late everynite and drinking a lot - and gained plenty of weight. She has a drinking problem.

 

Not sure if you believe in signs, but I prayed hard for some. She still has the keys to my apartment, and I always thought she would come home one day to hug me and say she misses me. One night at 2:30AM I heard someone opening my door with keys at my apartment, I wasn't dreaming for sure. I was scared and anxious/happy at the same time thinking she was coming home - it ended up being my drunk neighbor from upstairs - such a mind*** as I thought it can only be my wife - this never ever happened - talk about law of attraction.

 

The following week she texted me saying that the Notary guy put the wrong date on the divorce papers and she is sorry we have to do it again. I didn't want to until after we met up for our Friday date/meet (whatever you want to call it) she said she wants to get over it and sign otherwise she wouldn't meet me. We ended up meeting and I broke down the entire car ride, she broke down too until we signed the papers - I ended up breaking down even worse after I signed and we spoke and she apologized and cried also - (I asked her why she is doing this to me and if she would consider stalling the submittal of the papers) she said she would but not sure how confident I am about this. We ended up hanging out again drank a few drinks. got drunk and I walked her to a taxi - she held my hand.. I gave her kisses and she was accepting and she called me sweety - called me when she got home but I was already crashed "she said everything ok, id understand if you don't want to talk.

 

I texted her the next morning saying "sorry I fell asleep and crashed, I miss you I am broken its so hard for you not to be here with me" she replied "listen lets not start the day like this, enjoy your day and lets stick to the plan" (which I am thinking means give it a try again and see how I progress but I was not sure and didn't want to ask her.

 

We ended up going out Friday to a Waltz/FoxTrot even in Lincoln Center had drinks and she even wore her engagement ring bc I asked her to if she felt comfortable. She was happy, we danced, ate drank to the point where we were both a bit drunk

( I also asked her after a few drinks and having a good time what she meant about "lets stick to the plan" and she responded that we agreed we would see each other and see the progress) I still don't know what this means??

 

AfterI asked her if I can watch a movie w her at her apt to sober down.. she said ok. We ended up watching a Disney movie and I fell asleep caressing her foot. She fell asleep as well and attempted to grab my hand but pulled away after 2 seconds of holding it. She ended up going to sleep in her room and I crashed at her couch.

 

4 days later I asked if we can hang out and we did on 4th of July - we were only supposed to go to the park with our dog and have a picnic but it was about to rain to where we decided to eat out. We drank, ate, saw fireworks on her roof.. same deal, hugging her (she was accepting) she held me we held hands.. she told me to stay over again since I was drunk. I fell asleep on the couch again and she brought a blanket - she woke up at 5AM to go to work to where I woke up again to leave and she said don't worry just stay and take the keys.. get some more sleep. I took the keys but felt anxious that she was uncomfortable that I had it knowing my personality and how I can harass /stalk etc... based on my previous actions to where I stopped.

 

Everytime I see her its exciting but I leave feeling an emptiness if she is doing this out of Pity/Friends ... or real love. I am thinking 50-50 but who knows.. she knows I am trying hard to change and want her back. Why would she see me,, Pity, to let me down easy? Or she sincerely is confused?

 

The same day I told her I want to drop keys after work, and she agreed. I called her no answer at the time we agreed, so I texted her listen I am at your bar across the street. She finally came and I was drinking and asked her if she wanted to have a drink to where she declined (she looked ready to go out).. she was quiet and I sensed an awk vibe radiating from her. I asked if she was fine and she said "No, are you going to be hanging here now and drinking next to my apartment" I said no, sorry, I was just waiting to drop your keys but u didn't pick up so I decided to hit the bar.. I will leave if you feel uncomfortable. She then left feeling bad, and I said hold up.. I crossed the street and she was tearing . I told her the last thing I want to do is make you feel uncomfortable, I am sorry and should have thought. She said the following:

 

"This is not the idea I had, I am not ready to see you this frequently. What do you want me to tell you move in already?? What happened to a step at a time?? We are separated and getting a divorce.. now I feel bad telling you this stuff - I don't want to give you misleading messages" (but she is in reality)

 

I told her listen I felt bad sleeping over twice as it wasn't my attention but you were nice and hospitable and thank you. I wasn't planning on going out with you today just drop the keys. She said "now I have to meet up with Elvira because I have plans, and now it makes me sad/awk that you had other intentions (I denied it, but deep down I wanted to hang out with her again" ... I told her listen enjoy your time, I don't want to interfere with your plans, have a good time sweety and enjoy your outing - be safe. She then said "you are being fake (because I never liked her going out)" and I told her I am not being fake, enjoy and bye. She gave me a weird pity hug and that was it.

 

We had plans for her to come over my parents because she hadn't seen them in 2 months and she still pays for our family cell phone plan to where my family (mom, dad, sister, me and neice) pay her. she agreed I pick her up and take her.. I wanted this day to be with her and my family only - excluding myself to which I told her plenty of times. (I wanted my sister who was close to her to pick up vibes or maybe have a heart2heart conversation)

 

So we arrive I parked the car, and she proceed to hold my hand (what is this?? is she playing games??) Shes an innocent loving person and not the type to < edited > with emotions like that. We decided to catch breakfast and bring it to my parents and we had a good time for 30mins eating bagels, she ate of my plate, wanted me to sit with her. She then left with my sister to run errands and I left.

 

She texts me later a few hours later after she comes back to my parents and says "where are you?" I said "park playing ball" she said "ok we are home, take your time your sister and I are cooking" .. At first instinct this seemed to be an invitation to include me, or, take your time to pick her up as I agreed with her earlier.. I told her "enjoy your dinner with my family, let me know when you are ready and Ill pick you up.... To where she responded "you should come, we cooked dinner and you should see the new dog your sister bought your niece" I was glad and said yes even though I shouldn't have (I don't want to overdo it especially since she acts intermittent/fickle with her conflicted messages.) She kept texting me dinner is ready I will wait for you. We had a great time with the family and it was as if nothing ever happened as if we were normally together.

 

I drove her back home, I gave her my hand and she held it the entire time with out rooftop down she wanted.. I asked her if we can catch dinner/movie this week, she said "sure we can do that, I am off Saturday so Friday will work" I walked her home she gave me a kiss and said thanks for bringing me to see your family -- I really missed them.

 

My mom and sister went over the next day since she invited them for a dinner she was cooking - and they had a great time. She said she will continue to take over the cell phone bill and not to worry - we will just pay her monthly. I asked my sister and mom if she picked up on anything and they keep saying be patient - she didn't say anything but just keep going with the flow.

 

So this is where I am at now.. I don't call her nor text her only once a week - mostly on day we agreed to hang out. She has been seeing me weekly since, but I am fearing this is a means of letting me down easy. I want to ask her if she is seeing someone "but she always says she is hurt and wont see anyone for at least a year and I will be the first to know" but I don't know if she is BS'ing me or what.

 

So I am waiting for this Friday to take her out to a movie under the stars, she doesn't know where I am taking her.

 

Is she playing games with me?

Doing this out of pity?

I am just not sure where I stand and I want to ask her if she submitted the Divorce papers, are we really seeing each other?

Is she seeing someone else?

Do I keep going with the flow?

 

It's been 2months since my separation. Sorry this was long but I didn't want to miss some important pieces. Would appreciate your input .

[Jstub]

hey abitrandom82 - that was a long post indeed. As a person who was in a marriage with a borderline woman, i can tell you, it is one of the most tormenting things one can experience. I know a borderline doesn't do all the terrible things you mentioned on purpose, it does however take a huge toll on the partner. Please do not feel that I am indirectly attacking you, that is not my intention.

 

You see, normal people, do not get into a relationship with a borderline. Normal people see all the warning signs and run away from a borderline. When the initial love bombing stage is over, many many warning signs are there to be observed, but the borderline partner chooses to ignore those, because they are codependents or fixers. They think they can fix the borderline and bring them back to the love bombing stage, they associate love with helping/fixing others - that is not love. You mentioned many of your episodes and abusive behavior - do you think a normal person would put up with that? Not a chance.

 

Your wife is struggling to leave, even though everyone around her is telling her to leave. She is not playing you or anything, she is just having a really hard time walking away, because walking away for someone like her is one of the hardest things she has to do. You are doing all your pull tactics, trying to be nice, trying to be the man she wants you to be, just to get her back, but guess what... once you get her back, you will do the same things again - you can't help it, that's just you. Now most borderlines don't even realize they have a disorder, so you are one step ahead... but this is not something you can just take meds for. Something bad happened in your childhood that made you get stuck emotionally. It's a tough one to fix. You can't fix yourself and get her back at the same time, you just can't. One thing at a time.. work on yourself first.

 

I don't think your wife realizes what problem she has. Once she realizes she is a fixer / codependent, then she can start healing herself.

 

I was/ am a fixer codependent myself and it took so much for me to divorce my ex.. even when i divorced her, she still managed to get me back, because i didn't know what was wrong with me, but the minute i realized, that was it, I had peace. I still struggle and am constantly working on myself and avoid any sign of borderline (i naturally get attracted to them cz i am screwed up). My ex is her borderline self and she is destroying man after man (i think #5 now?).... so this doesn't just go away.

 

You want advice? Leave her alone, work on yourself, avoid relationships like the plague.. Give her distance, let her heal, what you guys have is not a relationship, it is a toxic environment and that is not love.

 

You are not a bad person - i really really hope you find peace and heal yourself. We are here for you. Good luck.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Jstub

[abitrandom82]

Thank you for your response Jstub. You seem to know a lot about The nature of BDP. I have been on quest with my therapist in trying to find events that caused this fixation, but it's quite the enigma. I am just thinking its genetic at this point.

 

I actually saw him yesterday and he is fickling that I have it , or don't because I only show this in relationships and not other settings. I do indeed have most of the symptoms, but who knows.

 

My wife is a fixer, truly empathetic, and co dependent. I believe with therapy Dbt, and medication, I can achieve stable levels that don't display its ugly side. BDP tactics tend to dissipate around the age of 40 - due to lessons learned. I can relate to this. I know I won't ever be fully cured, but being a 1-3 on the BDP scale vs an 7-10 is certainly achievable.

 

I work on myself daily and have forced myself to make better neuro associations; stay away from triggers, and be a better man. They say people with BDP don't emphatize, but I always did, nor do they feel remorse - to which I do.

 

Your knowledge in this subject is quite profound as I've been doing plenty of research on this from Shari Schreiber website gettinbetter.com, which is probably the most detailed literature on BDP you will find, especially with articles related to the BDP partner and their codependency reasons and tendencies.

 

It's useful information, even though it paints me as a monster with its heavy stigma.

 

I don't take offense to anything you wrote. You were completely honest and this was one of the best responses I've heard.. outside of this forum.

 

But I do really love her irrespective of this disorder I have that I continue to combat daily. I will continue to improve and I do want to not give up on her.

[SammySammy]

I think she's letting you down easy.

 

I don't think she's seeing anyone. She wouldn't be seeing you and your family so much if she was.

 

I don't think she is playing you. You're playing yourself by insisting on intruding into her life. To be honest, being with you sounds like a nightmare. Any sensible person would be counting down the days until they are legally free.

 

I think you need to face the reality that your behavior destroyed your marriage. I'm not being judgmental when I say that because I destroyed mine. I just had to face it and take responsibility. Part of that is giving your soon to be ex-wife her space and freedom, and going on to become a better person. One more capable of being a good spouse.

 

If your wife chooses to reconcile at some point in the future, you'll be ready to be and give her what she needs. If not, you'll be in a better place for you next relationship. Stronger and wiser. Having a better grasp of what it takes to maintain a relationship.

[aileD]

I think she loves you but she knows the relationship is not a healthy one to be in. She wants out but she doesn't want to lose all of you. You are too difficult to live with full time but she's enjoying the "good times" with you....it's a natural stage of the end of a relationship.

 

She has said many things that show she's serious about this

[abitrandom82]

I think she loves you but she knows the relationship is not a healthy one to be in. She wants out but she doesn't want to lose all of you. You are too difficult to live with full time but she's enjoying the "good times" with you....it's a natural stage of the end of a relationship.

 

She has said many things that show she's serious about this

 

Why would she say let's stick to the plan?

Or you are moving too fast?

Do you want me to tell you to move in now?

[Downtown]

I've been doing plenty of research on this from Shari Schreiber website gettinbetter.com, which is probably the most detailed literature on BDP you will find.

Random, do yourself a big favor stay far away from Schreiber's website. Do not rely on her for a basic understanding of BPD behavior. I strongly disagree with her portrayal of BPDers as uncaring emotional vampires and as manipulative spiders who spin webs to trap a partner. I also disagree with her claim that BPDers are unable to love. Those claims are simply false and she makes no effort to support them.

 

Schreiber confuses BPD traits with those of narcissists and sociopaths and thus fails to distinguish among these three patterns of behavior. Most BPDers do not exhibit strong traits of NPD or sociopathy (Antisocial PD). Only 39% of BPDers have strong NPD traits and only 14% have strong ASPD (sociopathic) traits. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP.

 

If you read Shari Schreiber's page about herself at that same website, you will find that she claims to have an MA degree in psychology but is not licensed as a therapist. Previously she had claimed to be a therapist but, after BPDfamily.com raised objections to that claim, she started describing herself as an "educator" and "healer" on her website. On Twitter, she refers to herself as "PsychSavant." In Calif, she apparently completed an internship for therapy but not the requirements for being licensed.

 

As you know, Schreiber's diatribes against BPDers in her blogs are targeted to an audience of their abused ex-partners. It therefore is revealing that, when you go to BPDfamily -- which is targeted to the very same audience -- you won't find any material written by Schreiber in their reference section.

 

If you nonetheless are still under the illusion that Schreiber can provide you with objective insight into the behavior and motivations of BPDers, I suggest you look at the sub-forum she created on her website for BPDers to share their own comments. She named that section "Borderline Rantings Forum." The intent of this sub-forum, she states, is "Rather than cluttering up my BPD forums with bitchings from Borderlines, I've decided to 'quarantine' their virulent rants here, instead."

 

I only show this in relationships and not other settings.

Random, that generally is true for most folks exhibiting strong BPD traits. The vast majority of full-blown BPDers -- statistics suggest 2/3 to 3/4 of them -- are "high functioning." This means that they typically hold jobs and generally get along fine with coworkers, clients, casual friends, and total strangers. None of those people is able to trigger the BPDers fears of abandonment and engulfment. There is no close relationship that can be abandoned and no intimacy to trigger the suffocating feeling of engulfment.

 

Hence, with the vast majority of BPDers, the strong BPD symptoms usually appear only when someone (e.g., a casual friend) makes the mistake of drawing close to the BPDer. This is why it is common for high functioning BPDers to excel in very difficult jobs such as being a social worker, teacher, surgeon, professional actor, or salesman. And this is why most BPDers can be considerate and friendly all day long to complete strangers -- but will go home at night to abuse the very people who love them.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Downtown

[abitrandom82]

Wow, I had no idea Downtown. I was actually relying on her website and believing most of the despicable qualities of a BPDer.. a lot of the things I read didn't sit well with me as I do love, I do care and I do feel like a good

Person even though this takes control of me at times.. but I regret it always.

 

It really just sucks to have this. Why would I destroy something I completely love for fear of losing her.. just to lose her in the end. It just makes no fkn sense to me. It's just self destructive and now I have no way of having her trust me again.

 

Thanks for enlightening me with this.

[Downtown]

I do care and I do feel like a good

Person even though this takes control of me at times.

Random, you likely are a good person. Even if you do have strong BPD traits, your problem is not being bad. Rather, your problem is being unstable. That instability arises from your inability to regulate your own emotions. That lack of regulation is believed to be caused by genetics and/or a childhood trauma occurring before age 5.

 

The result, if you are a BPDer, is that you never had an opportunity to learn how to do self soothing; how to regulate your other emotions; how to avoid obsessive worrying by distracting your mind with another thought (thus escaping the mind loop); how to stay in the present instead of escaping through daydreams into the past and future; and how to avoid black-white thinking by tolerating ambiguities and strong mixed feelings. Those are the emotional skills you can now acquire by working hard in DBT or CBT therapy.

 

Significantly, most major cities offer excellent treatment programs for folks lacking those basic regulation skills. The reason that it is rare for BPDers to seek out such therapy is that, like other PDs, BPD nearly always is invisible to the people suffering from it. What is remarkable about you, Random, is that you are so self aware -- which removes the major road block to success in BPD therapy. You therefore are past the major hurdle that prevents about 95% of high functioning BPDers from doing well in therapy.

 

This is not to say, however, that you are home free and your success is guaranteed. In addition to the self awareness, you also must have sufficient ego strength to be willing to work hard to acquire those missing emotional skills.

 

Why would I destroy something I completely love for fear of losing her.. just to lose her in the end? It just makes no fkn sense to me.

On the contrary, if you really are a BPDer, your behavior makes a great deal of sense. One reason your behavior is destructive is that your abandonment fear is so great that you will periodically push her away -- or walk away from her -- so as to reduce the unrelenting pain and fear.

 

A second reason is that, with BPD, you also have a second fear -- that of engulfment -- that is at the opposite end of the very same spectrum containing the abandonment fear. This is a serious problem because, when you draw close to her to reassure yourself of her love, you will start feeling suffocated and engulfed by her. You therefore will create arguments over nothing to push her away, giving you breathing space. Yet, as you two back away from each other, your abandonment fear will be triggered. Hence, no matter what you -- i.e., draw close or move far away -- you always lose. Moving close triggers one fear and backing off triggers the other. This is why it is so important for you to learn how to control your emotions.

[aileD]

Why would she say let's stick to the plan?

Or you are moving too fast?

Do you want me to tell you to move in now?

 

Stuck to the plan--of getting divorced

 

Moving too fast--- she doesn't want to be back in relationship

 

"do you want me to tell you to move in now" -- sarcasm.

[abitrandom82]

How was she able to get you back after you divorced her? Did she make any significant changes or was this more your doing?

 

To me the only thing I am clinging to is that she still sees me and she said verbatim "listen, lets stick to the plan as we agreed.. to see me and my progress" along with the hugging, holding hands, sleeping over her apt.. seeing my family..

 

She said she gives me an inch and I want a mile.

[SaveYourHeart]

To be honest, your relationship sounds toxic on both sides. Sometimes two people may love each other, but may not be good for each other. You need to focus on working on yourself, alone. If y'all come back together later in life, maybe things will be different, but she needs to heal from the abuse, and you need to let her do that alone.

[mikeylo]

Im guessing she is emotionally exhausted and we can't blame her. How long does she need to suffer before giving up ? It will take a toll on anyone. Sorry you are going through this.

[Jstub]

Regarding your comment about symptoms subsiding by age 40 due to lessons learned. I can't say i fully agree with you based on my own experience. I was involved with my ex for about 10 years (I still am, because we have children together) and while her symptoms did indeed subside to some extent, the core of her is the same. Let me explain with an example - Let's take jealousy. 10 years ago, my ex would accuse me of staring at a woman, even if i hadn't, and make a huge scene of yelling, screaming, cussing, demeaning me etc. fast forward 5 years later, she wouldn't make a scene like that, because "she had calmed down compared to her old self".. but would she still make stuff up in her head that i was staring at a woman i didn't even know was there? you bet! would she punish/ demean me for it? you bet! sure, she wouldn't yell and cause a big scene in public but is that any better? not really.

 

I can give you examples all day and my ex is 37 and i don't think she is any better than she was 10 years ago and i don't think she will magically heal when she is 40... bottom line is, if you don't fix what's broken inside of you, you will keep doing the same things over and over. Maybe the intensity will be a little less, but it will still be toxic and destructive.

 

How was she able to get you back after you divorced her? Did she make any significant changes or was this more your doing?

 

I am guessing you are directing that question to me. Without going into too much detail - she got me back, because she pretended like she had changed and showed me love again and put up the show long enough for me to buy it and take her back. At that time, I didn't know she was a borderline, nor did I know i was a fixer. Having kids with her also influenced my decision (bring the family back together)..After a few months of being back together, her exact bad behavior resurfaced. That was the turning point for me, it just didn't make any sense. That's when I figured things out and got on the right path.

 

The one correct thing i did was to not marry her again.. i guess my inner voice told me, that would be a big mistake and i am so glad i listened to that voice.. or i would have had to divorce her once more and get screwed again!

[Downtown]

Regarding your comment about symptoms subsiding by age 40 due to lessons learned. I can't say i fully agree with you based on my own experience.... while her symptoms did indeed subside to some extent, the core of her is the same.

Yes, Jstub, that is my experience too -- i.e., that strong BPD traits likely will mellow only a little bit starting in the late 40's and 50's (unless the BPDer has undergone years of therapy). Significantly, the studies done on this issue do not actually measure the degree of "mellowing" that occurs as BPDers age. Rather, they simply find that -- starting in the mid-40's and 50's -- a large share of full-blown BPDers eventually improve to the point that most of them no longer "have BPD."

 

Sadly, these results prove virtually nothing about the degree of improvement that occurs. Instead, they are simply an artifact of the flawed manner in which BPD has been "diagnosed" since 1980. The psychiatric community has been mistakenly using a dichotomous approach (e.g., "yes" or "no") to measure the intensity of BPD behavior that varies on a continuous spectrum.

 

Specifically, they conclude that BPD behaviors satisfying 100% of the diagnostic criteria implies that a person "has BPD" and BPD behaviors satisfying only 95% implies that he "doesn't have BPD." This arbitrary creation of a bright line (where none actually exists) makes no sense because a person meeting 80% or 90% of the diagnostic criteria will be nearly as difficult to live with as a person meeting 100%.

 

When applied to a spectrum disorder like BPD, using this dichotomous approach is as silly as declaring everyone above 6' 6" to be "tall" and everyone below that height to be "short." Fortunately, the American psychiatric community is already in the process of gutting that flawed approach and replacing it with a graduated approach to diagnosis. Yet, until the old approach is fully abandoned, studies will continue to show that a large share of people "having BPD" will "no longer have it" by the time they reach old age.

[ClassyTaste]

I agree to stay away from that site. I had a family member with BPD, but only a few traits. Not everyone is full blown BPD, those cases are rare and they are unable to change and therapists throw their hands up and abandon them as patients because the personality is so deeply ingrained,

 

There is a BPD site for family, friends, and those in relationships. You may have a chance if you work on yourself. The board is filled with men who are addicted to their girlfriends because they are really intense and passionate, although they have other problems that go along with it. They are not giving up and it is always possible she might not if you really work toward changing some of your coping mechanisms.

 

I love my bpd in my family. They have had some doozies, but they are a fun and an uplifting spirit. They have great compassion and empathy.