preraph Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 There are progressive people literally everywhere. It only depends what crowd you run with. Florida has a reputation for conservative that is unfair and based solely on the retirement community -- and old doesn't always mean conservative. Florida is one of the greatest tolerant places on earth, the parts I've been to. It was one of the first places, and more than one town, with large open gay populations that were catered to. And Florida is not rural. It's urban but it's just not urban and ugly. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author goldenlotus Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 You guys are amazing. I feel so bad because I'm just waffling so much on this issue! I used to be able to say, "That place seems cool and I'm going to move there," but now that I'm older I just think things through to death. Florida can be more progressive in some areas, and there are a lot of transplants. A very close friend has family there and they consider me to be like part of their own family. I also have an ex that I'm still friends with there, as well as 2 other people I knew long ago and could possibly reconnect with. Part of the problem is that I think moving to Milwaukee or Chicago would be a smarter choice...but well, does anyone know if having an aversion to living in one's home state is a thing? When I was young, I was substantially different than I am now. I don't like to be associated with the person I was when I have experienced and seen so much. I feel like I'm a different person, so I don't know how much I want to run into dozens of people I used to know, who already think they know me. Link to post Share on other sites
Popsicle Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 But the men there tend to be extremely picky, IMHO. I used to live near SF, and those guys would rather import than compromise, assuming that they are interested in women in the first place. I live there and I'm a woman. It's not that bad. Link to post Share on other sites
Eternal Sunshine Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 CptInsano, I agree. It seems that the more urban you go, the more likely you are to meet educated, progressive men...but that comes with massive cost (literally) and too many options. The last few single men I met in this area tended to be...I don't know if the word coarse is acceptable, but like that. I'm not equating blue collar, conservative, or lacking degrees as coarse, this is something different. Mainly they show up in ratty Tshirts, can't converse with me on most topics, and practically rape me with their eyes. It's uncomfortable to say the least. You know what I just realized? Maybe I should specifically target short men. Possibly a very underutilized market. I know exactly what you mean by the bolded. I always use terminology such as "blue collar" on these forums and people get offended. Maybe "coarse" is a better word. In general, there is a shortage of single professional and educated men in mid 30s + everywhere. If you add to that men that have no children, you are looking for a unicorn. They also seem to have soooooo many options. I met a man like this recently and he told me something like "I wouldn't date a woman your age unless she brought something really exceptional to the table". Funny thing is, he was 2 years older than me. I can't even fault him really, that's just the market. If you feel stuck in a rut, I do suggest moving. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable moving without a job so maybe you can start applying to the areas you desire. Just don't primarily move to find someone as there are no guarantees. I have always had lots of fun moving - I will probably move to Europe next Link to post Share on other sites
CptInsano Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 [...] In general, there is a shortage of single professional and educated men in mid 30s + everywhere. If you add to that men that have no children, you are looking for a unicorn. They also seem to have soooooo many options. I met a man like this recently and he told me something like "I wouldn't date a woman your age unless she brought something really exceptional to the table". Funny thing is, he was 2 years older than me. I can't even fault him really, that's just the market. [...] I don't think it is as much of a shortage of these men, but rather that they are willing to date a wider spectrum of women, including those with a lesser educational background or a different socioeconomic class. Most educated women seem to have a harder time with that, so yes, there is a definite competition for these men. That being said, it also implies that lesser-educated men will have a much harder time. Link to post Share on other sites
Eternal Sunshine Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 I don't think it is as much of a shortage of these men, but rather that they are willing to date a wider spectrum of women, including those with a lesser educational background or a different socioeconomic class. Most educated women seem to have a harder time with that, so yes, there is a definite competition for these men. That being said, it also implies that lesser-educated men will have a much harder time. I don't think that they are willing to date wider spectrum of women, just that they place value on different things. They value youth and looks over education, job, intelligence or even mental health. Most educated women might care about education and socio-economic status but are more willing to compromise on looks and age. Link to post Share on other sites
CptInsano Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) I don't think that they are willing to date wider spectrum of women, just that they place value on different things. They value youth and looks over education, job, intelligence or even mental health. I would agree on men looking for younger women, but as far as educated professionals are concerned, I don't think men are truly any less discerning when it comes to mental health. I think that only a minority of men and women have the opportunity to decide on looks in a quantitive manner. For most looks are simply good enough or not, as long as the rest of the criteria are met. Most educated women might care about education and socio-economic status but are more willing to compromise on looks and age. It's usually a trade-off. I've seen it go both ways, some educated women go the other way, and pick sonebody whose career who will not interfere with theirs. A good friend of mine married a very attractive guy with not much of a career, but who was in turn willing to stay at home with the kids for a few years. Two of my friends took a very similar route. That is still the exception, but I see it gaining more acceptance. My brother lives a very similar model, his gf has a graduate degree and he has none. But he is a very muscular and good-looking guy. Edited July 13, 2017 by CptInsano 1 Link to post Share on other sites
No_Go Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Exactly! At least 3 of my friends have stay-at-home-husbands (one have 2 kids, another one just got one, the third one - no kids, he just takes care of the house). Reason being they wanted a guy that will not interfere with their career, even if it comes with the cost of taking care of him financially. And it was a smart decision because they all had to relocate multiple times to excel at work, if their husbands were working as well, it would have been difficult. IME men are as much (if not more concerned) with the woman money-making potential and overall social class as women are... It's usually a trade-off. I've seen it go both ways, some educated women go the other way, and pick sonebody whose career who will not interfere with theirs. A good friend of mine married a very attractive guy with not much of a career, but who was in turn willing to stay at home with the kids for a few years. Two of my friends took a very similar route. That is still the exception, but I see it gaining more acceptance. My brother lives a very similar model, his gf has a graduate degree and he has none. But he is a very muscular and good-looking guy. Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 You guys are amazing. I feel so bad because I'm just waffling so much on this issue! I used to be able to say, "That place seems cool and I'm going to move there," but now that I'm older I just think things through to death. Florida can be more progressive in some areas, and there are a lot of transplants. A very close friend has family there and they consider me to be like part of their own family. I also have an ex that I'm still friends with there, as well as 2 other people I knew long ago and could possibly reconnect with. Part of the problem is that I think moving to Milwaukee or Chicago would be a smarter choice...but well, does anyone know if having an aversion to living in one's home state is a thing? When I was young, I was substantially different than I am now. I don't like to be associated with the person I was when I have experienced and seen so much. I feel like I'm a different person, so I don't know how much I want to run into dozens of people I used to know, who already think they know me. I totally HAD to get out of my hometown. And when you have that feeling, trust your instincts. Sometimes you have to move somewhere to find your niche and really blossom. I moved when I was in my mid-twenties and it was the best thing I ever did. And I didn't know anyone where I moved to, so the first year was a little lonely, but you do and that's why I think if you're wanting to get out of Dodge, then do it. Again, this is all premised on you first finding a job there. I don't know why people are acting like there's no opportunity there compared to the big northern cities. It's just not true. But it does depend what your skill set is and what you want to do. There is opportunity everywhere if you are open to it. Aesthetically, there 's no comparison between where you live and just about any patch of land in Florida. But find a job. Tampa is a big enough town and towns aren't too far apart in Florida either and commutes are easy but you need a car. Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 IME men are as much (if not more concerned) with the woman money-making potential and overall social class as women are... Respectfully disagree.....The only way this applies is if the guy is either too lazy/dumb/ugly to attract a good looking woman, so he needs that more average/below average looking woman to earn... Women who are truly good looking and have good bodies will get swept up and taken care of by successful men all the time. TFY 1 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 As a woman, one needs to be careful how you characterize men based on looks/career... For one, I know a lot of guys that range the spectrum from knuckle dragging meatheads to intellectual pinheads...There is absolutely ZERO correlation between poor manners around women between these people...Some are poon hounds and some aren't ....In fact, some of the more egregious offenders here are the high powered guys in high powered careers...They have the money and opportunities that other guys may not have, so they'll likely be the first one's you find in the strip clubs, cat houses, and hitting on every underling that they can... Additionally, many "blue collar" types are actually quite intelligent and respectful...And most, if they are any good, actually make more than their white collar contemporaries in their regular jobs.. Point is, take the time to learn who you are talking to, rather than just dismiss them.. TFY 4 Link to post Share on other sites
tetrahedral Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Respectfully disagree.....The only way this applies is if the guy is either too lazy/dumb/ugly to attract a good looking woman, so he needs that more average/below average looking woman to earn... Women who are truly good looking and have good bodies will get swept up and taken care of by successful men all the time. TFY This is really not true. I would never take a woman seriously for marriage if she didn't have the right background. All a nice body guarantees is sex. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 This is really not true. I would never take a woman seriously for marriage if she didn't have the right background. All a nice body guarantees is sex. For you, maybe... What most people don't get, is that a good looking woman is almost mandatory for a successful man...Its beyond sex or anything else..It's just another success measuring stick...Sure, ideally you want it all, but these guys aren't settling for dogs, just because they can earn or have a high social standing...They don't need the money anyway... TFY 1 Link to post Share on other sites
tetrahedral Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 For you, maybe... What most people don't get, is that a good looking woman is almost mandatory for a successful man...Its beyond sex or anything else..It's just another success measuring stick...Sure, ideally you want it all, but these guys aren't settling for dogs, just because they can earn or have a high social standing...They don't need the money anyway... TFY It's fine. It's not something I would expect an American to understand. Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Secure people don't need "success measuring sticks." And there's plenty of world leaders with ordinary looking wives. Only the insecure need to wear the labels and prop themselves up with someone who's too good looking for them or other props. Link to post Share on other sites
SwordofFlame Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 IME men are as much (if not more concerned) with the woman money-making potential and overall social class as women are... Disagree. While, I won't date a women working a retail job that pays the minimum wage. I would date a woman with a college degree making $55k despite that being less than half of what I earn. Link to post Share on other sites
CptInsano Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Disagree. While, I won't date a women working a retail job that pays the minimum wage. I would date a woman with a college degree making $55k despite that being less than half of what I earn. Out of curiosity: Would you date a woman who makes more than double your salary, with all the dynamics it induces in a relationship? Link to post Share on other sites
niji Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 @goldenlotus: I think the idea of moving to a mid-sized city is brilliant! My fiance and I found each other in a mid-sized city on the West Coast, the funny thing is we both came from the same area (our families live 40 mins apart from each other) but ended up in the same place. We're moving back home where I'd rather not be (mega city), for the sake of taking care of parents down the road. Moving to a mid-sized city also means that you'll be able to go out more and can meet people that way, though I'm still an advocate for OLD for folks like me who hate crowded places As far as beauty is concerned in the US, I would live in the Pacific Northwest if I wasn't geographically constrained by family. It's so green, the coast is right there, and be it outdoors or city activities, you're got it all within close reach. I've been to different parts of Florida quite a few times, stayed in Tampa for a week, but didn't find it desirable. There are parts around Tampa that are quite pretty (St. Pete, Tampa Bay, etc), but outside of a few nice areas the city overall had very unattractive, grungy parts. I will, however, never understand why people stay in the mega city (cough, SF/NYC) to share a room with 3 other people while making minimum wages. I could do that for a few years in my early twenties, but some people do that FOREVER. There is no place on earth beautiful enough for me to live if, because of the expense of living there, I can't afford to travel elsewhere. Mid-sized cities for the win! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SwordofFlame Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Out of curiosity: Would you date a woman who makes more than double your salary, with all the dynamics it induces in a relationship? It really depends on the woman. If she is such a driven person that finds it difficult to spend enough quality time with me because of her career, than the answer is probably no. If she expects me to pick up more than 50% of the parenting duties if we have kids, than also probably not. Link to post Share on other sites
niji Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Out of curiosity: Would you date a woman who makes more than double your salary, with all the dynamics it induces in a relationship? I know you addressed this specifically to another poster, but interestingly enough, most people in my field make more than double their SO's salaries... For what I can observe (which could totally be misleading of course) and even from my own situation, the dynamics are different, but I have never seen my colleagues talk down to their SOs. Regardless of salaries, it really depends on an individual's personality; someone can be making minimum wages and still be disrespectful. If a woman is willing to date someone knowing she makes more than double his salary and is still respectful about his career choice, the woman is worth a shot Link to post Share on other sites
CptInsano Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 It really depends on the woman. If she is such a driven person that finds it difficult to spend enough quality time with me because of her career, than the answer is probably no. If she expects me to pick up more than 50% of the parenting duties if we have kids, than also probably not. Thanks for the honest answer, as it relates to the original question. It also goes back to my own experience that combining two careers in a single relationship can result in a delicate balancing act. Link to post Share on other sites
No_Go Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 So if you're faced with two women of similar attractiveness but different earning potential which one you'd pick for marriage? The women in my circles that married unambiguous men are actually pretty good looking (I still think the guys selected them for their money though...) Respectfully disagree.....The only way this applies is if the guy is either too lazy/dumb/ugly to attract a good looking woman, so he needs that more average/below average looking woman to earn... Women who are truly good looking and have good bodies will get swept up and taken care of by successful men all the time. TFY Link to post Share on other sites
No_Go Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Disagree. While, I won't date a women working a retail job that pays the minimum wage. I would date a woman with a college degree making $55k despite that being less than half of what I earn. Same for me (I'm a woman, date men) - at least college degree (I have a phd) + at least 1/2 of my salary makes them dateable. That's kind of the only way not to be snobbish, for both sexes, no? I still feel like guys are calculating more, I'm talking for marriage not banging, for the latter it obviously irrelevant. Link to post Share on other sites
Cookiesandough Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Smaller city means less options doesn't it? Link to post Share on other sites
CptInsano Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Smaller city means less options doesn't it? It usually also means lower cost of living and less competition, more men and less women. The only question then becomes what you are competing for. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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